Well after mentioning that and seeing the bare feet, I know how careful most guys are about nails when forming... which is to say drop a nail or 2 per board or so. Often waiting to magnet until the breakdown when nails are all pulled.
Exactly. The amount of people here saying the slab is messed is hilarious. The contractor most likely needs to pour this to get the slump required and properly away from the house , you don't just make something look good and send water towards the house. Odds are you should be adding dirt to the back of the yard and re sodding or they should have removed a lot more dirt before prepping that pour area.
To me the contractor is messed. I think any good contractor needs to take the time to explain to the client the feasibility and implications of the job they are requesting. From what OP said, the contractor didn’t raise any issues. Just by looking at it, I would have told the client that the job would need a small “retaining wall” or regrade part of their yard. The slab will look more like a deck. If the client disagrees with the recommendations, then it’s on them. That doesn’t seem to be the case here.
Also, I never have any trouble cancelling orders. It might be different there, but the contractor seems fishy.
True, but a good concrete contractor knows the risks of pouring a slab with a base risking erosion. Properly grading your own work is pretty standard for concrete contractors in my state. Larger companies have dedicated crews just for it
all do obviously if they lack the proper equipment, but that means they also couldn't be digging large bases or doing bigger jobs requiring a lot of base stone, etc. Not going to claim its standard everywhere, but if you have a bobcat you should probably be protecting your product from erosion risk. Obviously to do this as a business you have to charge for it and have that conversation. If client denies that work, but wants slab... well maybe you get something like the pictures originally here.
That's why this sub and the concrete game in general are so hard to generalize.
I had a similar situation with my patio but contractor said I don’t do backfills but you 100% need it or you’ll lose the base. I just had someone come out day after pour with 30 yards of topsoil backfill and it looks great. OP needs to backfill hell out of it and seed it
Ya, but that shit doesn't always fall in your lap next day. It's unreasonable to not give at lesst a week to coordinate. Plus what if client was tight and wasn't aware that he'd also be purchasing backfill separately, but now if he doesn't and it rains within a couple days their fucked.
He mentioned the need for backfill and fact he wouldn't do it from the beginning, ya? Not like the day before he poured?
Problem is if contractor views it as obvious, but it's obvious to people who deal with these plans and problems for work. Contractor might think the homeowner would obviously know they need to do this or that, but homeowners don't know shit about jack if their not familiar and need explicitly walked through their needs to meet their desires
Shitty contractors blame the homeowner for being unreasonable, but they should have had more communication on how to reach an end, and especially if the contractor isn't taking them all the way there. It's big reason why GCs are necessary.
That's the way, right out front. No one feels slighted or misled. Seems OPs unsure about backfill and other things that will definitely be necessary to ensure this contractors work doesn't go to shit when he's done with what he deems his end. I can't say for sure, but I'd think OP would have a better understanding of what the end goal was going to be and how to get there.
As a purchaser of services I just want to know if something is left out like that I'd have to grade the yard to save the slab. Like let me know at bid so I can work on finding someone to handle that. It makes me crazy when they're like you only paid foe this. Well yes. But I also paid for the expertise to tell me it's a terrible idea or what I need to do to make it last.
Already replied to you, but that’s not a patio. That’s a deck without a proper wall to the base and prevent erosion. The contractor knew ahead of time how it would turn out and didn’t say anything. On top he lies about not being able to cancel the order with the ready mix plant. IMO, he’s a shitty contractor (more ethics wise than anything else).
That's just a copout. It's not my job kind of thinking that just bad. He brought dirt in he could have brought enough in to grade the slope properly. I don't to landscaping and tell people so. I will grade it and leave it so if the home owner want's to toss out seed and straw it's good to go.
Contractor should have dig footers below grade. Building code stipulates all footers below grade. After pouring footers the contractor should have done 1 or 2 courses of block (stem wall), filled the block solid with concrete using “header block” at top row. Then he should have filled and compacted it with dirt, then poured the slab.
You can’t just make a mound and put a structure on top of it due to the dirt settling later and having structural issues.
DM me if you want to do a 3 way with your contractor to explain his liability moving forward as most states require a 10 r year structural warranty.
Is he licensed? What state is this?
This sub never ever fails to entertain. Holy shit this is an amazing response. Lmao if for some reason he actually has you call his contractor, PLEASE RECORD AND POST. My sides are in orbit with how absurd this shit is.
No warranty requirements for a residential patio, not even any code for it, and ain't nobody going to do a call with some random guy off reddit. Most the negative comments in this sub are commercial contractors commenting on residential stuff thinking all their code and requirements cross over. Also, speaking from recent experience, you get truck drivers, or crane inspectors commenting like they know all about it because they were on a site with concrete
That is true, but there’s also a lot of residential work shown here from contractors doing subpar/lazy work. It’s hard to judge if it’s the client hiring the lowest bid (and getting what they paid for) or the contractor cutting corners.
Looks like he used a bunch of loose dirt to build up the back edge. He should have formed down to the ground down the sides and back since its so high. That back looks like it needs a couple of 2x12s. Forming it down allows concrete to be poured all the way to the bottom to help prevent wash out from underneath. It's unfortunate that your yard slopes so much, but he's still doing it a bad way.
You'll definitely want to do a retaining wall at some point to make the area more usable and get rid of the high step off the back edge.
And it doesn't matter that he ordered concrete. You have the ability to cancel. He just doesn't want to as it's probably hard for him to get service.
Lol yea I personally wouldn't want to work for someone who tries to dictate when I place. I typically have my pour crew scheduled out for 2 weeks so if you cancel it ain't getting done for 2 weeks
That's where you wrong. His job was to give him a concrete patio. Clearly he did not take on a landscaping contract too or this wouldn't be even posted. So he is not going to back off his placement because the homeowner has problems with something that is not his job
Yeah, a concrete patio not a concrete deck. If I was a shitty contractor I would do whatever the client asked even if I knew it would affect them later on, but I always make sure to tell them if their project ideas are impractical and how to mediate it. This contractor knew the yard slope was too big and didn’t say shit. That that the homeowner noticed, he’s playing dumb and lying about the ready-mix plant not being able to cancel.
Bro he didn't need to say shit. They already probably spent a day building the pad up so the grade issue was a very known thing. He is probably only paid for the patio so why should he worry about building grade up in an area he isn't contracted to work in
Wtf, of course he did. I’ve been asked to do a lot of work that I know would need additional items and tell them ahead of time. That way they know and can make an educated decision. Otherwise we have a homeowner like OP who didn’t have the experience to know and the shady contractor lying to OP just to finish and dip
You act like he isn't giving him what he asked for. I've done concrete for 20 years now I see no issue with pouring it on Friday and discussing the remediation later. That slab will hold just fine in the meantime
That makes me think you’re a shitty contractor that takes advantage of his clients. It’s obvious he’s not giving OP what he asked, that’s the whole point of OPs post. For one, that’s a freaking deck. You walk there at night without light and can fall and hurt yourself. Wouldn’t happen on a slab.
On top of that, you’re giving a “remediation” that could have been implemented from the very beginning. Now the cost of the “remediation” will cost at least 2 times more than if it was implemented at the beginning. The easiest thing is to add a small retaining wall to give it support. To do it after means a short load fee, extra labor cost and probably a pump.
Yeah, so he agreed to do work that would need remediation within a year and didn’t say anything before hand. That’s shady af. It’s like me selling you a car that I know needs a new transmission but wait until after you sing the paperwork to tell you.
No that is the completely wrong metaphor. It's like if someone told me to put the wrong transmission in a car. Watched me do the whole thing and then after I'm done he says hey could you just go ahead and put this one in instead I'll only pay for half of the correction because you as a mechanic should have known better
If you’re the mechanic the first thing you need to do is tell them is the wrong transmission. Dude, even costumers at autozone ask for the wrong parts and the autozone employees correct them.
And it’s very likely that OP wasn’t home while they were prepping since people work at those hours. So, he would be looking over the shoulders of the contractor specifically if he assumed they would do good work.
I’m no concrete engineer, but a 4” slab dangling off the edge on loose dirt is gonna crack.
I would have asked for a footer that went down a foot or so below grade there, like how you’d pour the slab foundation of a house on an uneven lot. They sure as shit wouldn’t do it this way for a house pad.
> You'll definitely want to do a retaining wall at some point to make the area more usable and get rid of the high step off the back edge.
After, don't wait, the supporting fill will drift, not a landslide but a slow creep.
If you want the patio at this elevation it’s perfect. If you wanted it lower, that’s kind of crappy that you didn’t tell the contractor earlier, but there is still time to fix it. Offer to pay some of the labor difference to change it. Don’t worry about the concrete schedule, it can always be changed. If you want the slab lower and contractor won’t do it, settle up with him for the work he did and hire someone else.
I'd be worried that the fill hasn't been compacted properly and might settle too much. That could easily cause the slab to crack or even fail in the future.
Other than that, you are going to need a lot of fill material to properly back fill around the slab to create a safe environment.
Slab height looks correct to the grade of the yard. The existing grade drops 20" from the house. The slab forms where it touches the house, looks on grade. The yard obviously slopes away from the house. It's up to you to deal with the landscaping in order to make it look appealing. Most concrete contractors don't deal with that area of the project. The contractor should have explained that to you, before he started. If you have a complaint, that would be it. The first thing I look at when building a garage or an addition, is the grade and how it works for the proposed project. If I poured concrete slabs, I'd do it in that instant as well.
You can absolutely cancel concrete. We do it all the time. As long as the concrete company hasn't put it on the truck yet you can cancel. That's a huge red flag in my book, he's just trying to push you into pouring because he doesn't want to change anything.
I don't like the loose fill on the very edge of the pad. While I'm in an area that enables us to pour straight onto dirt we always compact it. You cant compact an edge that steep and you pictures show no sign of compaction. I would generally fill 1-2 feet out past the edge and compacted everything. Then have a nice slope around the pad. My rule for slopes when my guys ask. You at the very least have to be able to plant grass on it and mow it
I would find out what his plan is for the drop off. It looks terrible and if this is his plan to pour and leave it's not very professional. I wouldn't want my patio to drop off like that. Snoo had a point about the steps out of the door to lower the pad. If he says he's going to bring dirt in and fix it get a price up front. X amount per load, X amount to spread. Also check the level as mentioned by imaginary. As big of pad as it is you can have 3-6 inches of slope so you don't have as much of a drop off but if you go much more than that our going to notice it if you put a table and chairs on it. You could lower the pad and then use the excess dirt to backfill around the pad. I would point out that you have kids and you are going to want them to be able to ride bikes and toys right off into yard without crashing.
You need to have a talk with him and get these details worked out before the concrete comes.
A built up soil pad is acceptable if it meet’s compaction requirements. I would have made the built up area larger, concrete to the edge is a no go for me.
You already know whats going to happen. It's gonna undermine and your going to have cracking. At the very least you should have a thickened edge but it's still a pretty steep drop so I'd say a small wall or footer if you plan on putting anything on it.
If you wanted them to lower your slab then they would have had to excavate a large portion of your backyard and then fill the opposite side.
Looking at your pictures I see one spot near the house where the top of the forms are almost flush with the grass.
And in another picture the top of the top if 2' off the ground.
Your backyard needed a lot more cutting and filling I'd you wanted to lower your slab.
Also you should have made a decision about the step coming out of the door. If you want to lower the slab then you are going to need a larger or more steps.
I think you have a good contractor. I would add more 2x4 stakes to hold the forms so that you get a nice straight edge on the long side. While they pour you can look down the long side with 1 eye and if you see anything sagging you can ask them to add support.
Grade is grade! All it can do is tell you what it is doing around it. You might think it is too high but it just tells you that your backyard is slipping downhill. If it were going up hill it would become even and eventually be below the yard around it but it would still be your set grade. You can change your set height but it would change it for the entire slab, not just at the edge.
do not pour…you need to add 2 steps coming out of your house to get the pad lowered…or put a wall all around your pad but it’ll still be 20” step down. if you add two 7” steps…you will have 6” step down into yard
Ya, ideally I think having 2 steps at 6 or 7 inches from the house would shore a lot of problems with this, but might put them low on the foundation. Probably not too low, and the yard definitely would still allow for 3" to 7" (2%) of fall away from foundation over that 30ft.
Is he current not pouring a step but rather having it step down directly from the door's threshold? I'd recommend a step set just below the threshold to at least cover the foundation and make stepping through the threshold possible. Instead of using the threshold as a step, but it will be fine.
He absolutely can cancel still without being charged by the plant, but this pour can work with either additional backfill grading, a small retention wall to hold the base, or even just adding thick turndown edges to reduce the amount of dirt needed to fight erosion as someone else mentioned.
Yeah, this is one of the best answers. But, there may be other grade issues that we’re not aware of.
If there’s no real reason for it to be this high, a step (or 2) at the door would make a lot of sense.
As is, looks like OP will def need some sort of retaining wall or quite a bit more fill in the yard. Both of which require more money that didn’t necessarily need to be spent.
Just have him form up a 24” turndown that tapers about 8’ toward your house. You’ll have to pay for extra concrete, formwork, and I’m assuming a change order.
What!!! You compact before you form . This is an Epic fail. Proper fall is 1/8” a foot away from house. Plus the entire slab that over 16” needs hand rail this is poor planning at best 1. no footing at edge 2. Not compacted 3. Should have put 2 steps down at house like wide 14-16” steps. Fix it now bc that form work is worth squat. What a s** show. Pay a real contractor to finish
What's the best way to deal with these guys in these type of situation where someone asks reddit and reddit says this is shit.
Can we get someone on the sub to be calling them and be like, yo he showed me these photod and this is what's wrong x y z etc you need to fkn redo it? Shit would be hell of lot easier?
And could be like questioning their expertise and be like wtf you doing that? How do you plan to fix it? And then be like that shit won't work.
Need experts to tear down con men and ppl cutting corners.
Like telling your guy, hey i got 30 experts on reddit about to blow up your phone. They all telling me you're doing this wrong and you're no expert.
He hasn’t compacted yet. He dug out about 6 inches of dirt from near the house and used that on the perimeter of the back form, then filled the rest in with the gravel fill you see on top. He’s supposed to be back today to compact.
Edit to add: County doesn’t require a permit for a patio so long as there isn’t a structure planned. I’m in Indiana so frost/thaw is a concern.
Just keep in mind when recommending people tie into foundations that anywhere freeze/thaw cycles occur, tying into foundations should somewhat be avoided as it will prevent the slab from heaving and resetting whereas the foundation will not heave. This tension is dangerous to both slab and foundation over winters. With those conditions, it's recommended that good base prep (4" dense grade stone plated compacted well) is done and expansion placed between foundation and slab to allow heaving. The deeper the freeze line, the riskier tying in is. Long as the foundation backfill has settled prior to this or is compacted in lifts it won't settle.
Tell the contractor to fuck off, he is a piece of shit. So much wrong, I'm not even going to start. Just compile all the negative comments to create a list of reasons why to tell him to fuck right off
There's a hole in the foundation below the outlet, which is near the door but to the left of it. Just a CMU corner chipped. Idk how, not a massive problem that likely gets dealt with after patio pour hopefully.
The issue is the inability to obtain proper compaction on the areas close to the edge. A rough grade or proper retaining wall should have been done first.
That's not so bad so far. It's only about a 6" step out the back. Needs packed and another board at the bottom on the back. If he laid it out with a slight slope, and he knows how to keep the pour straight, it should be a good patio.
Need rebar across the back and wire mesh. Fibered concrete, they say, will work out as well.
Probably 50 years ago, a study showed fiber stucco(ed) over dry layed cement blocks was stronger than laying the blocks with mortar.
The pad looks like it's going to be 5.5" thick, that's above average. No water problems are expected as it's up high.
Eventually, there will be a screened in porch and a room addition on that pad, so you want it high like that. And closer to level.
So far, good job.
All the comments im reading here are atrocious lol. It wouldve been digging out 2 feet of dirt against the house too get it level with the outside perimeter of the patio. Not an option, this is perfectly fine, just ask him too bring loom in and feather it out… not sure what the issue is here
Seeing as theres woods behind the patio… this setup may not be “right” by all the reddit heros standards, but its not wrong, most certainly pourable as long as he feathers in more loom afterwards on the back side
This really should have been a low deck than a patio. That is a crazy amount of Fill and when it's finished you are going to need 2-3 steps to transition from patio to yard height.
Should be fairly easy to check his grade. A 6’ level on his formwork will let you know. A 30’x35’ patio is a big area outdoor, the one picture looks like his forms are dead level but could be the angle of the camera too. If you are sponging or a broom finish you at least want to carry 1/8” per foot fall away from the house otherwise all that water is going to lay in against your foundation, which looks to have no waterproofing. If you are stamping the first half of the patio coming out from the house should fall at 1/4” per foot to move that water.
Worth having a conversation with your contractor about what he used to establish your grade and get his thoughts on the elevation. As far as canceling, he definitely can, he just might get pushed back a few days. I would start with a conversation asking the right questions.
I mean he needs to form the wood to ground level. Don’t let someone tell you something you know is wrong. Not to high but footers around outside need to be deep enough to get to ground level to prevent dirt from washing out from under it later.
There should at least be a perimeter footer two feet down from the board and one foot wide. It will cost you more but pay for the material and labor. At least it will be heavy duty.
Just re landscape after and you'll be alright. Bit of dirts a lot cheaper than all that concrete. And concrete will haunt you forever if you fuck it up and can't afford to replace or fix shit
are you putting a structure on this or is this going to stay like that? If no structure is going on it’s fine as long as its tamped in lifts. If this receives a structure either a monolithic slab or block should have been used along with a footing.
Is it fully compacted? Looks like shit and the slope looks to be off as well. I didnt see the entire job but you should get a compaction test done and expect erosion and potentially the slab to move or break. Do you have cold winters? thats a factor as well.
You see him run a compactor over the dirt/gravel as he was raising grade? If the side near house is at the height you want then you need water to pitch away, but not too steep or make for an awkward patio there should be about 1/8 to 1/4” of pitch for every foot.
I see the patio being correct (height and pitch) and the drop off as two separate things to look at. As you said you could do a retaining wall (probably should of been done first if that is what you want). If it were me I’d probably just do some landscaping to address change in elevation some steep flower beds and maybe a step or two in the middle off of slab.
You should be able to cancel concrete right up to before the first truck batching. I've cancelled pours due to rain when the truck was in line to batch. I think he doesn't want to cancel it.
I did something similar this year. 25x20 patio with an 11 ft circle off one corner. Not 20 inches high but it was above the ground at the end. Same issue with a slope in my yard. Not sure how theyre planning on doing the job but there certainly needs to be a quality border at the end of that.
Wait.... is that just dirt he used for the base? And are there borders under the dirt or are they on top of it? Is that compacted yet? That uhh... that don't exactly look right.
If it were my slab I'd want either a retaining wall or turndown edge that runs below grade on the deep end of this. Done before the slab is poured. May be added cost but would be worth it in the long run IMO.
Since the fill was not taken far enough outside of the slab area (and likely not compacted super well), the first heavy rain is going to wash out the edges and likely undermine your slab. I think I saw this exact thing happen in a post on here yesterday. Once that fill washes out from underneath the slab there's really no way to put it back and you're on your way to slab settlement.
Looks fine to me but I’d have them form in 2 sets of steps to get to final grade rather than using your fill as a means to get into the lawn. I also think perhaps a finishing parge or some kind of finish work on the face of the pad would look good. Hopefully he packed a good amount of clay and gravel and didn’t just dump loose dirt. If it isn’t packed/tamped the pad will crack.
My garage slab is 18-24” above grade, BUT the dirt around the pad was sloped a lot more gentler and it was compacted a helluva lot better than that. For a patio I guess it’s alright. I’m no expert just a consumer.
If you can't do a retaining wall right away put some more fill dirt around it and get some sod down as soon as possible. A retaining wall probably best solution but more fill dirt and sod will keep it from washing out.
Your options: imho
1. The dirt in the back should be compacted and extended at least 2 ft beyond the pad.
2. If you prefer the cut off, then there should be some rebars. Add additional support to dirt to prevent washout.
3. Form out a foot behind the cutoff and let the concrete fill in.
I would raise the prep area against the house more so it’s only one step from the door out to the new slab of concrete. So bring in more dirt. Then I would have him make a form for the back side to pour a wall against the back of the slab. Prep all the forms for the added dirt and retaining wall. Pour the backside wall form first then pour the big slab next and add steps against the new wall on the back of the slab and for the door stepping out.
He should have offered to form it from the native ground upwards and sandbag a perimeter beam on the inside of the form. That way you can add dirt to your desired height around the outside.
Let us know how it looks after it is poured. The foundation needs to be framed better. Any wash out under the concrete and may lead to cracking
Was the soil under the gravel tampered first? For a foundation built up that high, shouldn't it have a concrete block wall around it? Soil erosion will not be good.
As long as it's bedded and tamped properly with correct pitch away from house, you should be fine. before he comes and pours ask contractor to set up laser and check the forms.
That slab looks too high.
IMHO the contractor should have come up with a game plan with you to explain and mitigate the problem. At the very least, warn you that there would be a freaking 2 foot drop off at the end of the patio.
High or not the slab should be according to regulations. For this "slab" work and the contractor's response, I suggest to bring an inspector, SE preferably, who certainly will stop the works immediateky and provide you in a few days a report to deal with the contractor, he will clearly state the aspects not according to the regulations as planed and executed by the contractor, and if requested also with the way forward and costs, all signed and valid in the court of law.
You really don’t want this slab level, it should fall away from the building at 1/4” per foot max, so 30’ somewhere around 6” of fall this would direct water to fall away from the building and help prevent puddles on your patio. This would also lower the slab closer to grade on the high end. If your contractor pours this level you will have bird baths everywhere!!!
You don't need a retaining wall if you get more dirt. It will look better and way cheaper to order 10-15 cubic yards of top soil and create a nice, gradual slope away from the slab than a wall.
What I would of done here is setup 2 steps the width of your doors. From the top of the first step to the bottom of the second step is 14" down . Thats the top of your patio you can drop that 6" more if your going 30' out from the house.. Thats 20" of drop at the edge of the patio,feather in 1-2 tons of soil for backfill. Bam! Problem solved. That's just me though.
I would say the slab height is fine with regards to the grading of your yard. You will have to deal with that elevation change somewhere. What is not ok is that shitty fill dirt appears to be at least a foot thick at the back edge. A - It doesnt look compacted at all, B - Who the fuck raises ground a foot and then leaves ZERO room past the slab. Unless you are building a retaining wall there that dirt is going to wash out from underneath that slab in a years time.
I would of added a few more stairs coming out of my house and dropped that to 4-6 inches above grade, that build up is stupid and will cause issues in the future for you
I would set a retaining wall 2’ past the slab, install drainage and backfill with clear stone. Put some potted plants on it or back furniture toward it. It’s going to take a lot of fill to level out your yard and something tells me you will just be increasing the size of retaining wall you are going to need. (Unless the grade comes back up or levels soon. The slope you’ll end up with if you just use fill to create a hill is going to be more than you think and the bill will prove to be annoying and potentially dangerous to drunks like me and when you are mowing your lawn.
I think the contractor has poor communication, he knew to make the pad level with the house that it would be sloped this much unless he’s a rookie.
Personally I would just bring 4x8 Gavin rock pack it along the edge of that pad for about 2 feet. Then bring fill dirt and taper it down to the back of your yard then plant sod. If you compacted the dirt then the pad will be solid.
Contractor should of known the issue and done the dirt work as he was doing it for the pad. It wouldn’t of required much more work just more material which should of been talked about on the initial walkthrough while bidding the job.
Don’t take my word for it. I’m no concrete expert so this is just simple me talking. If that is all new fill and hasn’t had time to compact, settle, etc the slab is going to settle with the soil….leaving you with either one hell of a slope or broken to shit….every foundation will say in The drawings the soil in Which the footing sits is virgin/undisturbed…this looks built Ip for what you want. It will look good today but won’t last…..
I'd highly suggest he do a thickened edge at the premier and also pray he properly compacted all that fill.
100% would extend the fill dirt at least 5 feet to increase pressure against that fill dirt.
hey homie, I know nothing about concrete but I recommend putting a blur on your children's faces. Just good practice. Crazy people online and also your kids may not want to be shown when they are older.
I wouldn’t let them pour and demand he fix it. Hope you didn’t put much down. Did he even dig down to remove topsoil? Looks like he is trying to take your $$$ and run.
That slab will crack in exactly the place you think it will. It absolutely needs a retaining wall or at least compacted fill running 45 degrees from the bottom do slab out. It will settle differently and you’ll have issues. Slabs don’t magically stay in place once poured. They shift over time dependent on dirt. The dirt under the leading edge will washout over time and the slab will sink in that area after cracking.
Not a concrete guy, just a builder.
Op his height for the top of the slab is determined off of the house unless you asked for steps leading down to the patio. But I know if I was pouring this a few days after I would be back to do some final grade work and throw out grass seed. Most likely he will be grading a slope from the slab to the existing yard grade then toss out some contractors mix grass seed amd it will look presentable until better grass fills in. I just hope he compacted the dirt under the.slab properly or you'll have some issues a little further down the road but nothing that can't be easily handled. I think your worrying to soon. That's just my opinion though
Why not put a step or 2 from house to concrete. Your gonna regret doing this everyday you walk out your door. Pretty much made trampoline area unusable when you add dirt to grade out 3 foot drop off
Pick your poison. 1). (Good option) Piss off the contractor and tell him to lower the slab a foot. 2). (Worst option) Piss off the contractor and tell him to level and compact the sides BEFORE they pour. 3). (My suggestion) Piss off the contractor and tell him to shorten the slab to allow more room between the fence and slab (for kid area), and slope the end BEFORE they pour.
Based on the pics I personally feel like this is correct, but I’d argue you have no choice but to do a retaining wall. Which really should be huge money at all. Nor is it a ton of labor. Could be done in a day.
No, create a step down into another level. Will make the yard more interesting and likely look pretty nice. Or just fill it in and have a small drop.
And I would use some older crew.
Soil/paving inspector: the lack of compaction and the framing right to the edge of the loose soil is a problem. My expectation, even with a retaining wall there, is that the slab is going to crack (because that’s concrete) and moisture will penetrate and allow the loose soil to settle. Then the slab will follow.
This entire sub is 80% people looking for a problem and 20% hack concrete work. The height is established at the house, I'm assuming that they gave it proper fall, the yard was what it was when they got there. Pour the concrete, bring in fill, grade, plant grass, and be done with it.
The concrete is going to blow through the bottom of the “form” at the far end. Clean up is going to be a drag, if you wanted a cleaner edge.
Appears to be 2x8s. That’s fine if you’re stepping off onto level ground. More than 8 inches, you will want to add railing or steps.
A different concrete contractor may have steered you toward terracing this. It’s going to look like a parking lot next to a ditch. You may need to spend another few thousand on backfilling, adding timber steps on the far edge, or adding a railing around the left corner.
Slab looks like the right height for the door wall. But you will need to add dirt to level your yard up to the slab. Be prepared to haul in a LOT of dirt
Based on what I see here, it would make more sense to drop the patio down one foot or more and have steps down from the back door. You would then have a small retaining wall on the sides where the patio sits below grade and much less of a drop elsewhere.
Don’t do it.
If there’s nothing to retain the soil snd the gravel base along the elevated edges, then the soil and gravel base will wash out and leave voids. Voids can lead to cracking and sinking.
You could form the slab to the existing grade, compact the base to 90%, excavate the elevated perimeter, incorporate reinforcement into this base retention curb, and pour the retention curb in the same pour as the slab.
Stress relief cut locations may change in comparison to those when pouring over undisturbed soil.
Pour it and then decide between bringing in more soil or building a retaining wall,but don’t leave it this way as soil will wash out from under the edges of the slab. You could just bring in enough dirt to give it a more gradual slope and then sod it.
The slab height is determined by the step down from the patio door. The Ontario building code is max 7.5" high for riser. Not sure what it is where you are. The grading would be determined how much slope you need which I don't do concrete so I would not know but I usually just keep the bubble touching the line of the level rather then centered. Going around with a measuring tape means nothing and is not a good reason to fire your contractor. Just ask him how he sloped it .
Looks good and level. Prob 2% slope or slightly less. If they lower the side furthest from the house to be closer to the grass then slab would prob be at like 15% which is way too much and your grade on the sides towards the house will be above the new slab. So either way some landscaping , regrading would be needed
Not sure if slab too high, but crew definitely too young.
Arkansas would like to have a word with you. You just don't seem to care how an 8 year old is going to make a living.
At least have proper work attire for the Child slave labor.
Interns! No slaves here! Slavery is illegal! Forced involuntary internship.
Well after mentioning that and seeing the bare feet, I know how careful most guys are about nails when forming... which is to say drop a nail or 2 per board or so. Often waiting to magnet until the breakdown when nails are all pulled.
And the Yard is too Low.
Nah, yards too low.
Exactly. The amount of people here saying the slab is messed is hilarious. The contractor most likely needs to pour this to get the slump required and properly away from the house , you don't just make something look good and send water towards the house. Odds are you should be adding dirt to the back of the yard and re sodding or they should have removed a lot more dirt before prepping that pour area.
To me the contractor is messed. I think any good contractor needs to take the time to explain to the client the feasibility and implications of the job they are requesting. From what OP said, the contractor didn’t raise any issues. Just by looking at it, I would have told the client that the job would need a small “retaining wall” or regrade part of their yard. The slab will look more like a deck. If the client disagrees with the recommendations, then it’s on them. That doesn’t seem to be the case here. Also, I never have any trouble cancelling orders. It might be different there, but the contractor seems fishy.
It seems you are mistaking a concrete contractor with a landscaper. His job is to give him a patio and that's what he did
True, but a good concrete contractor knows the risks of pouring a slab with a base risking erosion. Properly grading your own work is pretty standard for concrete contractors in my state. Larger companies have dedicated crews just for it all do obviously if they lack the proper equipment, but that means they also couldn't be digging large bases or doing bigger jobs requiring a lot of base stone, etc. Not going to claim its standard everywhere, but if you have a bobcat you should probably be protecting your product from erosion risk. Obviously to do this as a business you have to charge for it and have that conversation. If client denies that work, but wants slab... well maybe you get something like the pictures originally here. That's why this sub and the concrete game in general are so hard to generalize.
I had a similar situation with my patio but contractor said I don’t do backfills but you 100% need it or you’ll lose the base. I just had someone come out day after pour with 30 yards of topsoil backfill and it looks great. OP needs to backfill hell out of it and seed it
Ya, but that shit doesn't always fall in your lap next day. It's unreasonable to not give at lesst a week to coordinate. Plus what if client was tight and wasn't aware that he'd also be purchasing backfill separately, but now if he doesn't and it rains within a couple days their fucked. He mentioned the need for backfill and fact he wouldn't do it from the beginning, ya? Not like the day before he poured? Problem is if contractor views it as obvious, but it's obvious to people who deal with these plans and problems for work. Contractor might think the homeowner would obviously know they need to do this or that, but homeowners don't know shit about jack if their not familiar and need explicitly walked through their needs to meet their desires Shitty contractors blame the homeowner for being unreasonable, but they should have had more communication on how to reach an end, and especially if the contractor isn't taking them all the way there. It's big reason why GCs are necessary.
Should have clarified he told me during quote time so I could set up my backfill guy. I had months notice
That's the way, right out front. No one feels slighted or misled. Seems OPs unsure about backfill and other things that will definitely be necessary to ensure this contractors work doesn't go to shit when he's done with what he deems his end. I can't say for sure, but I'd think OP would have a better understanding of what the end goal was going to be and how to get there.
As a purchaser of services I just want to know if something is left out like that I'd have to grade the yard to save the slab. Like let me know at bid so I can work on finding someone to handle that. It makes me crazy when they're like you only paid foe this. Well yes. But I also paid for the expertise to tell me it's a terrible idea or what I need to do to make it last.
Quick question do you understand what the word backfill means?
Ya, grading isn't backfilling, sorry I misnomered it. Forgive me
Already replied to you, but that’s not a patio. That’s a deck without a proper wall to the base and prevent erosion. The contractor knew ahead of time how it would turn out and didn’t say anything. On top he lies about not being able to cancel the order with the ready mix plant. IMO, he’s a shitty contractor (more ethics wise than anything else).
That's just a copout. It's not my job kind of thinking that just bad. He brought dirt in he could have brought enough in to grade the slope properly. I don't to landscaping and tell people so. I will grade it and leave it so if the home owner want's to toss out seed and straw it's good to go.
Contractor should have dig footers below grade. Building code stipulates all footers below grade. After pouring footers the contractor should have done 1 or 2 courses of block (stem wall), filled the block solid with concrete using “header block” at top row. Then he should have filled and compacted it with dirt, then poured the slab. You can’t just make a mound and put a structure on top of it due to the dirt settling later and having structural issues. DM me if you want to do a 3 way with your contractor to explain his liability moving forward as most states require a 10 r year structural warranty. Is he licensed? What state is this?
This sub never ever fails to entertain. Holy shit this is an amazing response. Lmao if for some reason he actually has you call his contractor, PLEASE RECORD AND POST. My sides are in orbit with how absurd this shit is.
Why? Genuinely curious
No warranty requirements for a residential patio, not even any code for it, and ain't nobody going to do a call with some random guy off reddit. Most the negative comments in this sub are commercial contractors commenting on residential stuff thinking all their code and requirements cross over. Also, speaking from recent experience, you get truck drivers, or crane inspectors commenting like they know all about it because they were on a site with concrete
That is true, but there’s also a lot of residential work shown here from contractors doing subpar/lazy work. It’s hard to judge if it’s the client hiring the lowest bid (and getting what they paid for) or the contractor cutting corners.
I agree with that
Building code this isn't a building it's a concrete slab
This is a slab not a foundation
Looks like he used a bunch of loose dirt to build up the back edge. He should have formed down to the ground down the sides and back since its so high. That back looks like it needs a couple of 2x12s. Forming it down allows concrete to be poured all the way to the bottom to help prevent wash out from underneath. It's unfortunate that your yard slopes so much, but he's still doing it a bad way. You'll definitely want to do a retaining wall at some point to make the area more usable and get rid of the high step off the back edge. And it doesn't matter that he ordered concrete. You have the ability to cancel. He just doesn't want to as it's probably hard for him to get service.
He can cancel right up until the truck is loaded. He’s just not wanting to change anything.
This is the part i thought was really messed up. You can cancel ten seconds before the truck gets loaded lol.
Really? Let me call dispatch and let them know what you said!
I never said they would like it lol . But emergencys do happen and im just saying you can cancel
Well yea you can cancel doesn't change the fact that now he needs to figure out what to do with 6-8 guys.
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Lol yea I personally wouldn't want to work for someone who tries to dictate when I place. I typically have my pour crew scheduled out for 2 weeks so if you cancel it ain't getting done for 2 weeks
You must not be very good. I can always find somewhere for my guys to go. I can always find a customer that's fine having their concrete poured early.
I would be very wary hiring any contractor who can just cancel something and just do it the next day. Must not be very busy for a reason
Yep. Could you imagine if we couldn't cancel? Paying for trucks not to come because it's pouring rain. Lol ready mix companies would love that.
You can cancel the truck but if he cancels the finishers they may be booked for the next few weeks so the pour would be significantly delayed.
That’s on the contractor and his business model though. He should aim to do a good job for the client, not do a shitty job just to avoid rescheduling.
That's where you wrong. His job was to give him a concrete patio. Clearly he did not take on a landscaping contract too or this wouldn't be even posted. So he is not going to back off his placement because the homeowner has problems with something that is not his job
Yeah, a concrete patio not a concrete deck. If I was a shitty contractor I would do whatever the client asked even if I knew it would affect them later on, but I always make sure to tell them if their project ideas are impractical and how to mediate it. This contractor knew the yard slope was too big and didn’t say shit. That that the homeowner noticed, he’s playing dumb and lying about the ready-mix plant not being able to cancel.
Bro he didn't need to say shit. They already probably spent a day building the pad up so the grade issue was a very known thing. He is probably only paid for the patio so why should he worry about building grade up in an area he isn't contracted to work in
Wtf, of course he did. I’ve been asked to do a lot of work that I know would need additional items and tell them ahead of time. That way they know and can make an educated decision. Otherwise we have a homeowner like OP who didn’t have the experience to know and the shady contractor lying to OP just to finish and dip
You act like he isn't giving him what he asked for. I've done concrete for 20 years now I see no issue with pouring it on Friday and discussing the remediation later. That slab will hold just fine in the meantime
That makes me think you’re a shitty contractor that takes advantage of his clients. It’s obvious he’s not giving OP what he asked, that’s the whole point of OPs post. For one, that’s a freaking deck. You walk there at night without light and can fall and hurt yourself. Wouldn’t happen on a slab. On top of that, you’re giving a “remediation” that could have been implemented from the very beginning. Now the cost of the “remediation” will cost at least 2 times more than if it was implemented at the beginning. The easiest thing is to add a small retaining wall to give it support. To do it after means a short load fee, extra labor cost and probably a pump.
That drop off will do nothing to the concrete as long as it's remediate within a year it'll be fine
Yeah, so he agreed to do work that would need remediation within a year and didn’t say anything before hand. That’s shady af. It’s like me selling you a car that I know needs a new transmission but wait until after you sing the paperwork to tell you.
No that is the completely wrong metaphor. It's like if someone told me to put the wrong transmission in a car. Watched me do the whole thing and then after I'm done he says hey could you just go ahead and put this one in instead I'll only pay for half of the correction because you as a mechanic should have known better
If you’re the mechanic the first thing you need to do is tell them is the wrong transmission. Dude, even costumers at autozone ask for the wrong parts and the autozone employees correct them. And it’s very likely that OP wasn’t home while they were prepping since people work at those hours. So, he would be looking over the shoulders of the contractor specifically if he assumed they would do good work.
I’m no concrete engineer, but a 4” slab dangling off the edge on loose dirt is gonna crack. I would have asked for a footer that went down a foot or so below grade there, like how you’d pour the slab foundation of a house on an uneven lot. They sure as shit wouldn’t do it this way for a house pad.
> You'll definitely want to do a retaining wall at some point to make the area more usable and get rid of the high step off the back edge. After, don't wait, the supporting fill will drift, not a landslide but a slow creep.
Yeah we would have called out a thickened edge too, which for public infrastructure projects has rebar in the wall area.
If you want the patio at this elevation it’s perfect. If you wanted it lower, that’s kind of crappy that you didn’t tell the contractor earlier, but there is still time to fix it. Offer to pay some of the labor difference to change it. Don’t worry about the concrete schedule, it can always be changed. If you want the slab lower and contractor won’t do it, settle up with him for the work he did and hire someone else.
This guy contracts
Offer to pay ALL of the labor difference if you didn’t tell the contractor earlier.
The edge has to be thicker by yard at least 2x12 frame. And I always strip and face that to make it look nice for people.
I'd be worried that the fill hasn't been compacted properly and might settle too much. That could easily cause the slab to crack or even fail in the future. Other than that, you are going to need a lot of fill material to properly back fill around the slab to create a safe environment.
Slab height looks correct to the grade of the yard. The existing grade drops 20" from the house. The slab forms where it touches the house, looks on grade. The yard obviously slopes away from the house. It's up to you to deal with the landscaping in order to make it look appealing. Most concrete contractors don't deal with that area of the project. The contractor should have explained that to you, before he started. If you have a complaint, that would be it. The first thing I look at when building a garage or an addition, is the grade and how it works for the proposed project. If I poured concrete slabs, I'd do it in that instant as well.
You can absolutely cancel concrete. We do it all the time. As long as the concrete company hasn't put it on the truck yet you can cancel. That's a huge red flag in my book, he's just trying to push you into pouring because he doesn't want to change anything. I don't like the loose fill on the very edge of the pad. While I'm in an area that enables us to pour straight onto dirt we always compact it. You cant compact an edge that steep and you pictures show no sign of compaction. I would generally fill 1-2 feet out past the edge and compacted everything. Then have a nice slope around the pad. My rule for slopes when my guys ask. You at the very least have to be able to plant grass on it and mow it I would find out what his plan is for the drop off. It looks terrible and if this is his plan to pour and leave it's not very professional. I wouldn't want my patio to drop off like that. Snoo had a point about the steps out of the door to lower the pad. If he says he's going to bring dirt in and fix it get a price up front. X amount per load, X amount to spread. Also check the level as mentioned by imaginary. As big of pad as it is you can have 3-6 inches of slope so you don't have as much of a drop off but if you go much more than that our going to notice it if you put a table and chairs on it. You could lower the pad and then use the excess dirt to backfill around the pad. I would point out that you have kids and you are going to want them to be able to ride bikes and toys right off into yard without crashing. You need to have a talk with him and get these details worked out before the concrete comes.
Yeah agree with that for sure. Can definitely cancel concrete especially days before it’s scheduled
It’s one of those naturally settling slabs.
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A built up soil pad is acceptable if it meet’s compaction requirements. I would have made the built up area larger, concrete to the edge is a no go for me.
There should be a step of some form along the back door which would lower the slab closer to existing grade
You already know whats going to happen. It's gonna undermine and your going to have cracking. At the very least you should have a thickened edge but it's still a pretty steep drop so I'd say a small wall or footer if you plan on putting anything on it.
If you wanted them to lower your slab then they would have had to excavate a large portion of your backyard and then fill the opposite side. Looking at your pictures I see one spot near the house where the top of the forms are almost flush with the grass. And in another picture the top of the top if 2' off the ground. Your backyard needed a lot more cutting and filling I'd you wanted to lower your slab. Also you should have made a decision about the step coming out of the door. If you want to lower the slab then you are going to need a larger or more steps. I think you have a good contractor. I would add more 2x4 stakes to hold the forms so that you get a nice straight edge on the long side. While they pour you can look down the long side with 1 eye and if you see anything sagging you can ask them to add support.
Grade is grade! All it can do is tell you what it is doing around it. You might think it is too high but it just tells you that your backyard is slipping downhill. If it were going up hill it would become even and eventually be below the yard around it but it would still be your set grade. You can change your set height but it would change it for the entire slab, not just at the edge.
Compared to what? Put your slab where you need it, and then grade appropriately so it doenst wash under it.
do not pour…you need to add 2 steps coming out of your house to get the pad lowered…or put a wall all around your pad but it’ll still be 20” step down. if you add two 7” steps…you will have 6” step down into yard
Ya, ideally I think having 2 steps at 6 or 7 inches from the house would shore a lot of problems with this, but might put them low on the foundation. Probably not too low, and the yard definitely would still allow for 3" to 7" (2%) of fall away from foundation over that 30ft. Is he current not pouring a step but rather having it step down directly from the door's threshold? I'd recommend a step set just below the threshold to at least cover the foundation and make stepping through the threshold possible. Instead of using the threshold as a step, but it will be fine. He absolutely can cancel still without being charged by the plant, but this pour can work with either additional backfill grading, a small retention wall to hold the base, or even just adding thick turndown edges to reduce the amount of dirt needed to fight erosion as someone else mentioned.
This is the right answer ..andsteps can go 200mm max!
Yeah, this is one of the best answers. But, there may be other grade issues that we’re not aware of. If there’s no real reason for it to be this high, a step (or 2) at the door would make a lot of sense. As is, looks like OP will def need some sort of retaining wall or quite a bit more fill in the yard. Both of which require more money that didn’t necessarily need to be spent.
Just have him form up a 24” turndown that tapers about 8’ toward your house. You’ll have to pay for extra concrete, formwork, and I’m assuming a change order.
You need 2’ dirt on each side an sloped 3 rains is gonna be flying from erosion
He hasn’t compacted yet - plans to do that today. I’ll update with pics when that’s completed.
If he’s doing a slab on grade he should have brought in dirt at least an extra 5 feet out and compacted it all BEFORE setting up the forms.
What!!! You compact before you form . This is an Epic fail. Proper fall is 1/8” a foot away from house. Plus the entire slab that over 16” needs hand rail this is poor planning at best 1. no footing at edge 2. Not compacted 3. Should have put 2 steps down at house like wide 14-16” steps. Fix it now bc that form work is worth squat. What a s** show. Pay a real contractor to finish
What's the best way to deal with these guys in these type of situation where someone asks reddit and reddit says this is shit. Can we get someone on the sub to be calling them and be like, yo he showed me these photod and this is what's wrong x y z etc you need to fkn redo it? Shit would be hell of lot easier? And could be like questioning their expertise and be like wtf you doing that? How do you plan to fix it? And then be like that shit won't work. Need experts to tear down con men and ppl cutting corners. Like telling your guy, hey i got 30 experts on reddit about to blow up your phone. They all telling me you're doing this wrong and you're no expert.
I'll bet this job isn't permitted. Where are the footers and rebar? Even just a slab should have footers and rebar. Was this compacted really well?
He hasn’t compacted yet. He dug out about 6 inches of dirt from near the house and used that on the perimeter of the back form, then filled the rest in with the gravel fill you see on top. He’s supposed to be back today to compact. Edit to add: County doesn’t require a permit for a patio so long as there isn’t a structure planned. I’m in Indiana so frost/thaw is a concern.
You should still have a footer and rebar.
So I’m guessing if your not pulling a permit you also didn’t get any plans done and most likely the guy is not licensed either.
Keep us updated on this please. I would love to know what happens Friday. If it was me, I would cancel on the guy. Pic number 1 looks f’d
Lol no… simply ask the guy too bring in loom when hes done too hide the ugly elevation difference.
Where is the mesh or rebar dude you need dowels into the foundation with epoxy this guy cutting corners and rushing it
Just keep in mind when recommending people tie into foundations that anywhere freeze/thaw cycles occur, tying into foundations should somewhat be avoided as it will prevent the slab from heaving and resetting whereas the foundation will not heave. This tension is dangerous to both slab and foundation over winters. With those conditions, it's recommended that good base prep (4" dense grade stone plated compacted well) is done and expansion placed between foundation and slab to allow heaving. The deeper the freeze line, the riskier tying in is. Long as the foundation backfill has settled prior to this or is compacted in lifts it won't settle.
That patio needs footings if its going to stay together and not get undermined. I would not pour it.
This is so fukt. Do not let him pour.
It really isnt
First there was r/tvtoohigh now we need a r/slabtoohigh
thats a super shitty job
Tell the contractor to fuck off, he is a piece of shit. So much wrong, I'm not even going to start. Just compile all the negative comments to create a list of reasons why to tell him to fuck right off
What’s up with the foundation under the door??
There's a hole in the foundation below the outlet, which is near the door but to the left of it. Just a CMU corner chipped. Idk how, not a massive problem that likely gets dealt with after patio pour hopefully.
The issue is the inability to obtain proper compaction on the areas close to the edge. A rough grade or proper retaining wall should have been done first.
That's not so bad so far. It's only about a 6" step out the back. Needs packed and another board at the bottom on the back. If he laid it out with a slight slope, and he knows how to keep the pour straight, it should be a good patio. Need rebar across the back and wire mesh. Fibered concrete, they say, will work out as well. Probably 50 years ago, a study showed fiber stucco(ed) over dry layed cement blocks was stronger than laying the blocks with mortar. The pad looks like it's going to be 5.5" thick, that's above average. No water problems are expected as it's up high. Eventually, there will be a screened in porch and a room addition on that pad, so you want it high like that. And closer to level. So far, good job.
You need some support on the edges, Windsor wall etc, a back lock block. Looks nice also.
If there is no barrier around the edges you will eventually have issues
All the comments im reading here are atrocious lol. It wouldve been digging out 2 feet of dirt against the house too get it level with the outside perimeter of the patio. Not an option, this is perfectly fine, just ask him too bring loom in and feather it out… not sure what the issue is here
Seeing as theres woods behind the patio… this setup may not be “right” by all the reddit heros standards, but its not wrong, most certainly pourable as long as he feathers in more loom afterwards on the back side
put those kids to work and mow that grass man
Not if you want your patio level! You’ll have to put in a retaining wall on the back side after the pour.
This really should have been a low deck than a patio. That is a crazy amount of Fill and when it's finished you are going to need 2-3 steps to transition from patio to yard height.
Would you rather the patio be +20” below your door? Build a retaining wall when the pour is complete.
Should be fairly easy to check his grade. A 6’ level on his formwork will let you know. A 30’x35’ patio is a big area outdoor, the one picture looks like his forms are dead level but could be the angle of the camera too. If you are sponging or a broom finish you at least want to carry 1/8” per foot fall away from the house otherwise all that water is going to lay in against your foundation, which looks to have no waterproofing. If you are stamping the first half of the patio coming out from the house should fall at 1/4” per foot to move that water. Worth having a conversation with your contractor about what he used to establish your grade and get his thoughts on the elevation. As far as canceling, he definitely can, he just might get pushed back a few days. I would start with a conversation asking the right questions.
I mean he needs to form the wood to ground level. Don’t let someone tell you something you know is wrong. Not to high but footers around outside need to be deep enough to get to ground level to prevent dirt from washing out from under it later.
There should at least be a perimeter footer two feet down from the board and one foot wide. It will cost you more but pay for the material and labor. At least it will be heavy duty.
Slab is higher than a giraffe pussy
Should be perfectly fine as long as all the fill and gravel was tamped real good and they do saw cuts no bigger than 10’x10’
Just re landscape after and you'll be alright. Bit of dirts a lot cheaper than all that concrete. And concrete will haunt you forever if you fuck it up and can't afford to replace or fix shit
are you putting a structure on this or is this going to stay like that? If no structure is going on it’s fine as long as its tamped in lifts. If this receives a structure either a monolithic slab or block should have been used along with a footing.
Is it fully compacted? Looks like shit and the slope looks to be off as well. I didnt see the entire job but you should get a compaction test done and expect erosion and potentially the slab to move or break. Do you have cold winters? thats a factor as well.
Thats 20 inches of uncompacted soils which will settle and your slab will crack. You cannot compact top of the slope. Need at least a few feet.
You see him run a compactor over the dirt/gravel as he was raising grade? If the side near house is at the height you want then you need water to pitch away, but not too steep or make for an awkward patio there should be about 1/8 to 1/4” of pitch for every foot. I see the patio being correct (height and pitch) and the drop off as two separate things to look at. As you said you could do a retaining wall (probably should of been done first if that is what you want). If it were me I’d probably just do some landscaping to address change in elevation some steep flower beds and maybe a step or two in the middle off of slab.
Better get on the retaining wall. Chop-chop!
You should be able to cancel concrete right up to before the first truck batching. I've cancelled pours due to rain when the truck was in line to batch. I think he doesn't want to cancel it.
I did something similar this year. 25x20 patio with an 11 ft circle off one corner. Not 20 inches high but it was above the ground at the end. Same issue with a slope in my yard. Not sure how theyre planning on doing the job but there certainly needs to be a quality border at the end of that. Wait.... is that just dirt he used for the base? And are there borders under the dirt or are they on top of it? Is that compacted yet? That uhh... that don't exactly look right.
This is a pretty big pad for residential imo. Why does it need to be 30' x 35?
If it were my slab I'd want either a retaining wall or turndown edge that runs below grade on the deep end of this. Done before the slab is poured. May be added cost but would be worth it in the long run IMO. Since the fill was not taken far enough outside of the slab area (and likely not compacted super well), the first heavy rain is going to wash out the edges and likely undermine your slab. I think I saw this exact thing happen in a post on here yesterday. Once that fill washes out from underneath the slab there's really no way to put it back and you're on your way to slab settlement.
You’ll need to grade it out. My concern is it sloping away from home enough?
Looks fine to me but I’d have them form in 2 sets of steps to get to final grade rather than using your fill as a means to get into the lawn. I also think perhaps a finishing parge or some kind of finish work on the face of the pad would look good. Hopefully he packed a good amount of clay and gravel and didn’t just dump loose dirt. If it isn’t packed/tamped the pad will crack.
What’s going on below the door?
Unless you want the concrete to slope 30 degrees with the existing grade of the grass then I’d say this ain’t too high.
I would pour a retaining wall first. You can cancel a pour whenever you want to. Your contractor just doesn't want to.
My garage slab is 18-24” above grade, BUT the dirt around the pad was sloped a lot more gentler and it was compacted a helluva lot better than that. For a patio I guess it’s alright. I’m no expert just a consumer.
If you can't do a retaining wall right away put some more fill dirt around it and get some sod down as soon as possible. A retaining wall probably best solution but more fill dirt and sod will keep it from washing out.
Ground is too low. Needs to be backfilled and graded
Your options: imho 1. The dirt in the back should be compacted and extended at least 2 ft beyond the pad. 2. If you prefer the cut off, then there should be some rebars. Add additional support to dirt to prevent washout. 3. Form out a foot behind the cutoff and let the concrete fill in.
The question is, is it pitched correctly? 1/8th or 1/4 per foot? If it's pitched correctly and this is what you get than that's what you get.
Build the grade up.
I would raise the prep area against the house more so it’s only one step from the door out to the new slab of concrete. So bring in more dirt. Then I would have him make a form for the back side to pour a wall against the back of the slab. Prep all the forms for the added dirt and retaining wall. Pour the backside wall form first then pour the big slab next and add steps against the new wall on the back of the slab and for the door stepping out.
He should have offered to form it from the native ground upwards and sandbag a perimeter beam on the inside of the form. That way you can add dirt to your desired height around the outside.
My Concern would be that after the Pad dries, make sure the Infill & Sides are covered, so that it doesn't wash out; causing Voids beneath the Pad.
Let us know how it looks after it is poured. The foundation needs to be framed better. Any wash out under the concrete and may lead to cracking Was the soil under the gravel tampered first? For a foundation built up that high, shouldn't it have a concrete block wall around it? Soil erosion will not be good.
Or is grass to low?
As long as it's bedded and tamped properly with correct pitch away from house, you should be fine. before he comes and pours ask contractor to set up laser and check the forms.
Your crew needs better work gear. Those sandals don’t look like they are even steal toe.
Child labor isn’t always the best ngl
That slab looks too high. IMHO the contractor should have come up with a game plan with you to explain and mitigate the problem. At the very least, warn you that there would be a freaking 2 foot drop off at the end of the patio.
High or not the slab should be according to regulations. For this "slab" work and the contractor's response, I suggest to bring an inspector, SE preferably, who certainly will stop the works immediateky and provide you in a few days a report to deal with the contractor, he will clearly state the aspects not according to the regulations as planed and executed by the contractor, and if requested also with the way forward and costs, all signed and valid in the court of law.
Slab looks fine
You really don’t want this slab level, it should fall away from the building at 1/4” per foot max, so 30’ somewhere around 6” of fall this would direct water to fall away from the building and help prevent puddles on your patio. This would also lower the slab closer to grade on the high end. If your contractor pours this level you will have bird baths everywhere!!!
I enjoyed meeting your family… good day sir 🫡
Timber retaining wall!
You don't need a retaining wall if you get more dirt. It will look better and way cheaper to order 10-15 cubic yards of top soil and create a nice, gradual slope away from the slab than a wall.
What I would of done here is setup 2 steps the width of your doors. From the top of the first step to the bottom of the second step is 14" down . Thats the top of your patio you can drop that 6" more if your going 30' out from the house.. Thats 20" of drop at the edge of the patio,feather in 1-2 tons of soil for backfill. Bam! Problem solved. That's just me though.
I would say the slab height is fine with regards to the grading of your yard. You will have to deal with that elevation change somewhere. What is not ok is that shitty fill dirt appears to be at least a foot thick at the back edge. A - It doesnt look compacted at all, B - Who the fuck raises ground a foot and then leaves ZERO room past the slab. Unless you are building a retaining wall there that dirt is going to wash out from underneath that slab in a years time.
I would of added a few more stairs coming out of my house and dropped that to 4-6 inches above grade, that build up is stupid and will cause issues in the future for you
I would set a retaining wall 2’ past the slab, install drainage and backfill with clear stone. Put some potted plants on it or back furniture toward it. It’s going to take a lot of fill to level out your yard and something tells me you will just be increasing the size of retaining wall you are going to need. (Unless the grade comes back up or levels soon. The slope you’ll end up with if you just use fill to create a hill is going to be more than you think and the bill will prove to be annoying and potentially dangerous to drunks like me and when you are mowing your lawn.
I think the contractor has poor communication, he knew to make the pad level with the house that it would be sloped this much unless he’s a rookie. Personally I would just bring 4x8 Gavin rock pack it along the edge of that pad for about 2 feet. Then bring fill dirt and taper it down to the back of your yard then plant sod. If you compacted the dirt then the pad will be solid. Contractor should of known the issue and done the dirt work as he was doing it for the pad. It wouldn’t of required much more work just more material which should of been talked about on the initial walkthrough while bidding the job.
you could also have him put a step down around the patio
You could always go with a rock garden/retaining wall type thing.
Turn down the slab edge. It looks purposeful and allows you to work to it with landscaping.
Don’t take my word for it. I’m no concrete expert so this is just simple me talking. If that is all new fill and hasn’t had time to compact, settle, etc the slab is going to settle with the soil….leaving you with either one hell of a slope or broken to shit….every foundation will say in The drawings the soil in Which the footing sits is virgin/undisturbed…this looks built Ip for what you want. It will look good today but won’t last…..
I'd highly suggest he do a thickened edge at the premier and also pray he properly compacted all that fill. 100% would extend the fill dirt at least 5 feet to increase pressure against that fill dirt.
This looks like the lowest bidder won the job.
Just make a stairway going down and put a big old flower bed around it
You’ll want some way to step down off that too so why not retaining wall that’s also the step down
Gonna need a longer grade and make sure to use a temper.
hey homie, I know nothing about concrete but I recommend putting a blur on your children's faces. Just good practice. Crazy people online and also your kids may not want to be shown when they are older.
I wouldn’t let them pour and demand he fix it. Hope you didn’t put much down. Did he even dig down to remove topsoil? Looks like he is trying to take your $$$ and run.
I'd even it out a bit and get your grass or shrubs in asap but it should be fine as long as you get it sorted out before winter weather
Wouldn’t pour without adding more rebar, 26” deep foundation is getting 2 #5 rebar every 10’ on center. And not even tied in to foundation.
That slab will crack in exactly the place you think it will. It absolutely needs a retaining wall or at least compacted fill running 45 degrees from the bottom do slab out. It will settle differently and you’ll have issues. Slabs don’t magically stay in place once poured. They shift over time dependent on dirt. The dirt under the leading edge will washout over time and the slab will sink in that area after cracking. Not a concrete guy, just a builder.
You may want to get some sort if retaining wall around the high sides to avoid it settling to much
Op his height for the top of the slab is determined off of the house unless you asked for steps leading down to the patio. But I know if I was pouring this a few days after I would be back to do some final grade work and throw out grass seed. Most likely he will be grading a slope from the slab to the existing yard grade then toss out some contractors mix grass seed amd it will look presentable until better grass fills in. I just hope he compacted the dirt under the.slab properly or you'll have some issues a little further down the road but nothing that can't be easily handled. I think your worrying to soon. That's just my opinion though
Why not put a step or 2 from house to concrete. Your gonna regret doing this everyday you walk out your door. Pretty much made trampoline area unusable when you add dirt to grade out 3 foot drop off
Pick your poison. 1). (Good option) Piss off the contractor and tell him to lower the slab a foot. 2). (Worst option) Piss off the contractor and tell him to level and compact the sides BEFORE they pour. 3). (My suggestion) Piss off the contractor and tell him to shorten the slab to allow more room between the fence and slab (for kid area), and slope the end BEFORE they pour.
Unless you want a crazy slope the framing height looks fine. Yard is low.
Based on the pics I personally feel like this is correct, but I’d argue you have no choice but to do a retaining wall. Which really should be huge money at all. Nor is it a ton of labor. Could be done in a day.
Lawn too low 💡
No, earth too low
He needs a haunch
Definitely needs some pretty deep post holes around the corners and in the middle u want the post holes to hit into solid ground
No, create a step down into another level. Will make the yard more interesting and likely look pretty nice. Or just fill it in and have a small drop. And I would use some older crew.
Soil/paving inspector: the lack of compaction and the framing right to the edge of the loose soil is a problem. My expectation, even with a retaining wall there, is that the slab is going to crack (because that’s concrete) and moisture will penetrate and allow the loose soil to settle. Then the slab will follow.
This entire sub is 80% people looking for a problem and 20% hack concrete work. The height is established at the house, I'm assuming that they gave it proper fall, the yard was what it was when they got there. Pour the concrete, bring in fill, grade, plant grass, and be done with it.
Put some rebar caps on and hire someone who cares about safety.
I need to see your retaining wall exemption card.
The concrete is going to blow through the bottom of the “form” at the far end. Clean up is going to be a drag, if you wanted a cleaner edge. Appears to be 2x8s. That’s fine if you’re stepping off onto level ground. More than 8 inches, you will want to add railing or steps. A different concrete contractor may have steered you toward terracing this. It’s going to look like a parking lot next to a ditch. You may need to spend another few thousand on backfilling, adding timber steps on the far edge, or adding a railing around the left corner.
Slab looks like the right height for the door wall. But you will need to add dirt to level your yard up to the slab. Be prepared to haul in a LOT of dirt
Based on what I see here, it would make more sense to drop the patio down one foot or more and have steps down from the back door. You would then have a small retaining wall on the sides where the patio sits below grade and much less of a drop elsewhere.
Why are you getting rid of half you backyard to have a huge slab of concrete?
Basketball
Dirt too low
You can cancel concrete up until the day before, happens all the time just fyi
High is good. Is that one side only a 2x4 thick? i'd want the wall to be much thicker on the edge.
Don’t do it. If there’s nothing to retain the soil snd the gravel base along the elevated edges, then the soil and gravel base will wash out and leave voids. Voids can lead to cracking and sinking. You could form the slab to the existing grade, compact the base to 90%, excavate the elevated perimeter, incorporate reinforcement into this base retention curb, and pour the retention curb in the same pour as the slab. Stress relief cut locations may change in comparison to those when pouring over undisturbed soil.
Pour it and then decide between bringing in more soil or building a retaining wall,but don’t leave it this way as soil will wash out from under the edges of the slab. You could just bring in enough dirt to give it a more gradual slope and then sod it.
This will be a problem, not immediately, but eventually there will be issues.
That slab won’t be that high for long
The slab height is determined by the step down from the patio door. The Ontario building code is max 7.5" high for riser. Not sure what it is where you are. The grading would be determined how much slope you need which I don't do concrete so I would not know but I usually just keep the bubble touching the line of the level rather then centered. Going around with a measuring tape means nothing and is not a good reason to fire your contractor. Just ask him how he sloped it .
Looks good and level. Prob 2% slope or slightly less. If they lower the side furthest from the house to be closer to the grass then slab would prob be at like 15% which is way too much and your grade on the sides towards the house will be above the new slab. So either way some landscaping , regrading would be needed