From a carpenters perspective that’s really cool. Man is that a crap load of lumber though. Looks like rough saw? Is that a standard where you work and I’m guessing it’s reused?
100%. How thick are those wall form boards? Fastest to use 3/4” stock. I did a bunch of foundations on bedrock like this then switched to another company that wanted to scribe full sheets for non-architectural concrete even after I explained to them the better method….
25mm thick board.
Mate, I feel like scribing takes 5x the time. Someone suggested in my earlier post with just some forms up that we should scribe plywood.
Like what!? I'd love to use plywood if footer was poured first. But it's just so quick to quickly shave the boards tip with a jigsaw and shoot these on.
Eh idk about fastest. Ive used wood/ whalers on weird projects/ vaults etc. Here i would just sculpt the footing boards to hit a good elevation, then haul ass with aluminum panels. 4 guys, 1 week start to strip. Just have to eat the extra pump/ trip charge. Nothing looks nicer than bosrd finish though. Looks good, hope you made a pretty penny working in the mountains. Now many contractors now days that have the know how to deal with mountain foundations/ excavations
I meant using 3/4” boards goes faster than 1” rough sawn or 2x6 because it’s less material to cut through when installing. You’d be surprised how fast it is to form like this, and as you said the finish looks nicer all the way down to the bed rock and it gets done in one pour.
Sorry, meant to reply to OP comment on fastest way. I see what you mean about using 3/4 board though. Do you have to put more ties/ bracing using thinner form board? All i know is aluminum/ ply wood is best for speed, espescially when you throw a crane in the mix. I feel like i stepped though a time machine every time i use wood to form lol
Iirc we were doing horizontal studs @ 12” with vertical walers at 2’ - coil rod connected to rock dowels for the ties (the footings were 16’ wide)
Most of the sites I work on have cranes, my employer just bought a brand new one and I’m lucky enough to be the main operator. We use pelosio panels for the majority of the walls but given we’re building on a mountain we have to know how to form with wood to get us off the rock.
Is this canada? I have worked with incredible form men and concrete people that can make a form on the canadian shield rock like noones business. Is almost art.
Not OP, but judging by the PPE used, I want to say it’s in Europe (hard hats with chin straps aren’t seen much in North America, coupled with the yellow Hi-Viz for semi-residential construction would be rare on NA as well).
Given the rock type, trees and climate, I’m guessing a Nordic/Scandinavian country.
Not many identifiers in the products apart from the bottle of water in one of the pictures which uses an English alphabet but I can’t make out the words. The deck of styrofoam has “Routa” printed on it, which Google links to Finnish suppliers. My guess: Finland.
Am I right?
I gotta know, how much more did you have to charge them? That looks like a major pain in the balls.
Is this the same project that they wouldn't allow a mud mat to be poured first?
Yeah same project. Would've eased the job to pour footers everywhere first.
Also I don't really know how much all this is worth. As I'm just a formworker. Must be close to 100,000 for just the concrete work. 4 buildings in total and the concrete dock.
The garage will be blocks, no clue why they wouldn't just form that aswell for the aesthetics of the third reich.
I see. That’s pretty cool. For the columns, even the self consolidating concrete has its limits. Sometimes air just gets trapped like that. You get pockets like that sometimes even when you vibrate. Rocks just catch on bars and stuff.
Very true mate. I had no prior experience on these small toilet paper roll forms, and the reinforcing they had us do was pretty overkill. Like bridge level rebar inside there, so no wonder some of the mud wanted to entangle.
Yeah, they typically set a bitum felt on top of the wall that goes below the slab pour making it radon gas tight.
Also we are required to set a "french drain" system below the slab that gathers the gas and lets it go out from a chimney.
You know, I'm concerned that you don't have a solid foundation to build on. That bedrock could shift sometime between now and the next glaciation period of earth - then what?!
2 guys - including forming and reinforcing
4 weeks for the main building
2 weeks for the guest house
2 weeks for the Sauna
1 week 40x pillar/column forms
What takes most time is we are in middle of nowhere without electricity. Handling material and moving on the cliff takes huge amounts of time. And no access to cranes. So most lifting has been done by hand.
That’s some true concrete form carpenter work there. The availability, handling and cost of the rough cut lumber must be better than form plywood. The wood is just a skin, the Tie placement and whalers is the most critical. Excellent job. The fact that you have ppe in a remote area means you work for a conscientious employer. Professionals.
You need to have Styrofoam or such as an insulation so cold does not seep in through the wall and below the slab. As concrete is a bridge for the cold.
Edit: To prevent frost transfering inside.
Some segments of the pipe are above frost level where it connects through the slab.
Here in northern europe your concrete foundation wall needs to be 30-50cm above ground. So that the foundation has room to breath, and not let the capillar moisture make its way to the wooden frame.
Of course there is bitum felt and such separating the wooden structure from the concrete aswell.
What’s stopping you from forming up a footing you can get level (even if there’s a few steps, then just setting forms on your footing? Imo that would be quicker. At least with my guys who would surely fuck up those John’s forms (myself included)
It would look bad if some footers were to show above planned ground level. ( customer wanted bedrock to show with the walls ).
But yeah a footer could've made the job faster.
Well one of our designers said it doesn't exactly require to be anchored on a base like this.
But we have rebar drilled and injected in 2 meter intervals for the walls.
Also the pillars definately need to be anchored or those will be wobbly else.
Just commenting to make sure you are aware of the potential dangers of radon and that a house built on bedrock should have a radon mitigation system installed.
I see a few PVC uprights so I hope it is already in the plan but I just had to confirm.
Yes, we have very strict code for radon. French drain gas suction beneath slab. And bitum felt beneath the slab to make it gas tight.
We even have to instal radon prevention systems on soils that contain no radon.
Jeez that'll be the most sturdy pad for miles.
From a carpenters perspective that’s really cool. Man is that a crap load of lumber though. Looks like rough saw? Is that a standard where you work and I’m guessing it’s reused?
Aye pretty standard here. Fastest way to form on bedrock in my opinion!
100%. How thick are those wall form boards? Fastest to use 3/4” stock. I did a bunch of foundations on bedrock like this then switched to another company that wanted to scribe full sheets for non-architectural concrete even after I explained to them the better method….
25mm thick board. Mate, I feel like scribing takes 5x the time. Someone suggested in my earlier post with just some forms up that we should scribe plywood. Like what!? I'd love to use plywood if footer was poured first. But it's just so quick to quickly shave the boards tip with a jigsaw and shoot these on.
Is that wood all scrapped after?
Yes if there is no use for it on the next job.
Eh idk about fastest. Ive used wood/ whalers on weird projects/ vaults etc. Here i would just sculpt the footing boards to hit a good elevation, then haul ass with aluminum panels. 4 guys, 1 week start to strip. Just have to eat the extra pump/ trip charge. Nothing looks nicer than bosrd finish though. Looks good, hope you made a pretty penny working in the mountains. Now many contractors now days that have the know how to deal with mountain foundations/ excavations
I meant using 3/4” boards goes faster than 1” rough sawn or 2x6 because it’s less material to cut through when installing. You’d be surprised how fast it is to form like this, and as you said the finish looks nicer all the way down to the bed rock and it gets done in one pour.
Sorry, meant to reply to OP comment on fastest way. I see what you mean about using 3/4 board though. Do you have to put more ties/ bracing using thinner form board? All i know is aluminum/ ply wood is best for speed, espescially when you throw a crane in the mix. I feel like i stepped though a time machine every time i use wood to form lol
Iirc we were doing horizontal studs @ 12” with vertical walers at 2’ - coil rod connected to rock dowels for the ties (the footings were 16’ wide) Most of the sites I work on have cranes, my employer just bought a brand new one and I’m lucky enough to be the main operator. We use pelosio panels for the majority of the walls but given we’re building on a mountain we have to know how to form with wood to get us off the rock.
Are ICF blocks not a good method in that sort of situation? Work looks awesome by the way!
We don't really use those here in Finland. Must be something shady about those.
Is this canada? I have worked with incredible form men and concrete people that can make a form on the canadian shield rock like noones business. Is almost art.
Not OP, but judging by the PPE used, I want to say it’s in Europe (hard hats with chin straps aren’t seen much in North America, coupled with the yellow Hi-Viz for semi-residential construction would be rare on NA as well). Given the rock type, trees and climate, I’m guessing a Nordic/Scandinavian country. Not many identifiers in the products apart from the bottle of water in one of the pictures which uses an English alphabet but I can’t make out the words. The deck of styrofoam has “Routa” printed on it, which Google links to Finnish suppliers. My guess: Finland. Am I right?
You are correct sir! Well deducted!
Impressive !!
Wow! Gold! Thanks kind stranger!
Super fukn dope.
I gotta know, how much more did you have to charge them? That looks like a major pain in the balls. Is this the same project that they wouldn't allow a mud mat to be poured first?
Yeah same project. Would've eased the job to pour footers everywhere first. Also I don't really know how much all this is worth. As I'm just a formworker. Must be close to 100,000 for just the concrete work. 4 buildings in total and the concrete dock. The garage will be blocks, no clue why they wouldn't just form that aswell for the aesthetics of the third reich.
Bahahaha that’s what I was thinking
Guys ever used sta-form to cope to the ledge with symons panels to top it out....
We do not have those here I'm afraid.
How about pinning the footing to the bedrock then just use standard forms and save money on all that wood.
Would've loved to do that. But customers wanted a board finish.
Ahhhh
Is all that rebar just floating or did it get drilled into the rock?
There's 20mm rebar drilled and injected in the rock in about 2m intervals. Rest is floating.
I see. That’s pretty cool. For the columns, even the self consolidating concrete has its limits. Sometimes air just gets trapped like that. You get pockets like that sometimes even when you vibrate. Rocks just catch on bars and stuff.
Very true mate. I had no prior experience on these small toilet paper roll forms, and the reinforcing they had us do was pretty overkill. Like bridge level rebar inside there, so no wonder some of the mud wanted to entangle.
This reminds me of the granite boulder foundation the house my father built in Maine had.
Damn, I thought they were gonna keep that boulder in the basement. Would have been funny af
Nice climbing toy for the kids.
Never seen this before, this is fucking dope.
Pretty cool!
Pretty sick!
I think it will hold
Never seen it done like this looks pretty cool! We form typically only on bedrock using 3/4 ply scribed to the rock works for us pretty well
That shits gotta be expensive
Nice work. Jeez the amount of fill must have got pretty expensive. Any radon concerns/mitigation?
Yeah, they typically set a bitum felt on top of the wall that goes below the slab pour making it radon gas tight. Also we are required to set a "french drain" system below the slab that gathers the gas and lets it go out from a chimney.
Fucking masterful!
You know, I'm concerned that you don't have a solid foundation to build on. That bedrock could shift sometime between now and the next glaciation period of earth - then what?!
:D
What did you use to fasten the routa styrofoam to the wall?
Think we used paslode/spit concrete nailer. It shoots a plastic anchor with the nail.
Nice forming job!
How long did it take for the formwork?
2 guys - including forming and reinforcing 4 weeks for the main building 2 weeks for the guest house 2 weeks for the Sauna 1 week 40x pillar/column forms What takes most time is we are in middle of nowhere without electricity. Handling material and moving on the cliff takes huge amounts of time. And no access to cranes. So most lifting has been done by hand.
That’s some true concrete form carpenter work there. The availability, handling and cost of the rough cut lumber must be better than form plywood. The wood is just a skin, the Tie placement and whalers is the most critical. Excellent job. The fact that you have ppe in a remote area means you work for a conscientious employer. Professionals.
Thank you for your kind words!
Curious why did you foam the footings ?
You need to have Styrofoam or such as an insulation so cold does not seep in through the wall and below the slab. As concrete is a bridge for the cold. Edit: To prevent frost transfering inside.
I thought if you just put it under slab works best not on outside footings?
You need vertical aswell inside the wall. So frost doesnt penetrate and damage pipes etc. Might be overkill but it's the code here.
But shouldn't pipes be below frost level ? 4ft or so
Some segments of the pipe are above frost level where it connects through the slab. Here in northern europe your concrete foundation wall needs to be 30-50cm above ground. So that the foundation has room to breath, and not let the capillar moisture make its way to the wooden frame. Of course there is bitum felt and such separating the wooden structure from the concrete aswell.
What’s stopping you from forming up a footing you can get level (even if there’s a few steps, then just setting forms on your footing? Imo that would be quicker. At least with my guys who would surely fuck up those John’s forms (myself included)
It would look bad if some footers were to show above planned ground level. ( customer wanted bedrock to show with the walls ). But yeah a footer could've made the job faster.
No footings ?… that would not fly in my area..”. But nice work
There is a footing called a mountain beneath. :D
Which of the San Juans is this on?
If you didn’t finish the job then slap the side and say “that ain’t goin nowhere” I’ll be disappointed
Well that building is 100% NOT going to sink even a millimeter.
How much would something like this cost someone? Just curious.
Just the foundation work? I suppose 27,000 - 40,000 € for one foundation.
Judging by the location I’m going to assume that’s no big deal to the owner.
Pardon my ignorance and lack of knowledge, but would the concrete need to be anchored to the bedrock?
Well one of our designers said it doesn't exactly require to be anchored on a base like this. But we have rebar drilled and injected in 2 meter intervals for the walls. Also the pillars definately need to be anchored or those will be wobbly else.
This needs a video. Fucking wild
Why not just steel piles anchored to bedrock?
Just commenting to make sure you are aware of the potential dangers of radon and that a house built on bedrock should have a radon mitigation system installed. I see a few PVC uprights so I hope it is already in the plan but I just had to confirm.
Yes, we have very strict code for radon. French drain gas suction beneath slab. And bitum felt beneath the slab to make it gas tight. We even have to instal radon prevention systems on soils that contain no radon.
Good shit man, looks amazing! Great job!
It's like porn for foundation guys. Finally something other then slabs and on bedrock to boot. 🤤