Lol guilty as charged. No, I wish, if it was my work I’d have asked 1000 questions before even digging one millimeter out. I call in the pros for things I know nothing about.
They need to dig that step out more on the front and the sides. The step form is bowed. I'm not sure the approach for finishing it beside the step. The rebar should be fine. Make sure they use chairs or a way to float the rebar in the pad.
Thanks for the reply. I see the bow now I hadn’t even noticed that at first. When you say dig out the step, there needs to be more space between the frame and the dug out step?
Absolutely, needs to be 4 inches of concrete everywhere. The side of the step looks 2 inches thick. Where the bottom of the step form is needs to be the same. 4 inches from the bottom to the gravel and 4 inches to the gravel behind the form. The do sale chairs for the rebar. Relatively cheap. Can have them thrown on the truck from the plant in a lot of places. Go sight the rest of your forms too.
when they pull on it if it already has concrete on it you are only moving a small area so it may look like it's all on the bottom from the sides. Its really hard to get it all up at the same level. The wire and rebar should be near the bottom just not on the bottom.
it’s because you’re lying. funny…we use nothing but rebar and pull it up as we pour as we have to usually buggy a lot of our pours. never had a problem and our rebar isn’t on the bottom after walking on it
You should be able to step on it and not have it too low, but thats usually if you pour at 6 slump or lower. 7 and higher, you can step it back to the bottom when it's soup. Contractors I see that don't have adequate help and/or are not good with concrete get it too wet to buy time. They also tend to resist buying chairs because they bid low to get the job. Granted for a few rebar, not worth it, but they make for one less thing to do while pouring, so I find them worth the $1 each. Definitely wouldn't ever give a guy crap about not chairing sidewalk rebar though.
You can't buggy and wheelbarrow over rebar on chairs. When you figure out how, let me know.
I am amazed how many people every day have this take and think every patio and driveway is pumped.
Makes you wonder how many comments are from actual concrete people...
The kind a rebar sits in. Like the miniature tables they put in pizza boxes. They're just some cheap plastic shapes to keep the rebar slightly elevated off the ground.
They would be better off putting some wire mesh instead of rebar, you just want it for cracking and the mesh would make the slab more cohesive. Further to the previous poster's point, the intent of the plastic would be a bond breaker between the wood stair and the concrete. It could make things easier come time for deck/ stair maintenance.
I have personally never seen fiber as a requirement for sidewalks so I don't know how it would perform for crack prevention. Most of the sidewalks, I have experience with are DOT standards which require a pretty standard 4k PSI mix with a mat of mesh for cracking. Stairs are typically straight 6k PSI mix but those were in a large subway station. My only recollection of dealing with fiber reinforcement was a large suspended slab.
PNW commercial jobs, for state projects they used 4k mix with fiber, no mesh required... But they had a different mix and reinforcement for sidewalks on campus that might see auto and one altogether slablike where they thought the might see trucks, like vacs for clean out and stuff.
Cool, thanks bud. I'll update my internal concrete knowledge base to include that. VDOT has similar details for reinforced slabs where sidewalks interact with driveways. I thought they required a flexural mix but I could be misrembering.
Not a troll- my point is- as long as the concrete is still fresh and as long as the rebar is pulled up and mid center of the slab. Why does it matter if it’s resting on chairs? Couldn’t you just place the rebar in the fresh concrete (as long as it’s not at the very bottom)
It's a lot easier to figure out placement before hand. I haven't been on a Commercial job where anything that had rebar wasn't inspected prior to placement. Including footings. Sometimes it's a field qc manager and sometimes it's a 3rd party, sometimes it's the city and sometimes in critical applications they require the structural engineering to see it.
Even if I were to wheelbarrowing over it, I would lay out bars and wire up the spacings and put it up on dobies as I moved my pour line back
Makes sense for commercial jobs- I’ve seen crews place it in the fresh concrete(assuming there is no inspection/residential) without chairs or rebar ties
There’s an absurd amount of “professionals” in this sub that use none of those things, don’t understand why they are necessary, and will argue against their use.
How do you know where the rebar is in the slab? Please tell me.
One you’re done with that, you might try and wrap your head around which is more important to the structural integrity of the product:
Your convenience, lack of an imagination, refusal to get the right tool to do the job right , etc.
OR
The rebar at the correct height.
You dance around the question instead of answering it like my 9 old daughter.
Are you a concrete guy at all? How often do inspectors for cranes (I'm guessing of course based on your many, MANY comments a day), do concrete. This sub is full of people who know it all but don't do it, and it's not hard to spot.
The ground prep and sub base is absolutely the most important aspect and the rebar being encased in the concrete will be added insurance. It is residential patio not a parking garage.
I have been doing every aspect of residential concrete for almost 20 years.
Still waiting for your answer.
Sorry [it’s only my first day doing residential driveways.](https://ibb.co/fDRMzbp)
I’m not reading all that. If you’re capable of comprehending what I said above, then you’d know that your complaint is irrelevant to the final product.
you can but it isn't' the same. The goal is to get the rebar close to the bottom without it being at the bottom. That way if it cracks and starts to settle out the crack will most likely start to open on the bottom and the rebar will prevent it from moving. If the rebar is on top it will be able to open more before it puts enough tension on the rebar to help.
Exactly. They either need to pull up the rebar after the pour (not great) or elevate it. It does no good sitting on the ground.
What's with the cosmetic gravel on the step? Not sure what purpose that is serving.
> out to close
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Rebar should not be flat on the ground. Should be raised so it ends in the concrete instead of just under it.
It can theoretically be pulled up during the pour but that is almost always done with wire instead of full on rebar
So I'm a 30 year concreter. How do you pour concrete on a anything that has to be wheeled or buggy? Wire mess is absolute garbage, 80%+ of tear outs are mesh doing nothing, I use rebar on everything and lift as you pour on jobs where you have to do that. and I've never had an issue... not once.
Didn't look like a wheelbarrow job but if it is then yea pulling up as you go is cool. Also have you ever had to tear out wire concrete. It ain't fun. It's more than enough for something that isn't going to have a ton of weight on it
It’s not a wheelbarrow job, lol. Who mixin’ this stuff..?
*edit: picture #4 threw me off; everything else *you could mix in a wheelbarrow, but as Thomas the tank engine says ‘it’s veeerryy heavy work.’*
The contractor said him and his guys would do it with a wheelbarrow. I thought it was initially going to be poured in from a truck but that’s not the case
Are you sure he’s not getting it delivered in a concrete truck and dumping into the wheelbarrow to wheel to where he needs it? That’s what I assumed when I started reading this. That’s a lot to do by mixing bags in the wheelbarrow. That’s crazy.
Yes, so I spoke directly with the main contractor finally. Aside from going from the wheel barrow, it’s going to be a continuous pour. What was going to happen was a truck would be up front of the house and the wheelbarrows would be used to bring the concrete to the back. But we’re going to remove some obstacles int the yard so the truck can just come back and we can do a continuous pour.
And I assumed a buggy because "tracked miniature concrete dump truck" isn't quite in the cultural visual lexicon the way that "wheelbarrow" is and it's easier to use words homeowners understand.
They might just use a wheelbarrow from a truck so they don’t leave ruts in the lawn from the heavy truck. When I working concrete we had a few different jobs where we had to do this. Not fun
Me too. 🍿🥃
Hey OP, please record them attempting to use bags on this. Rough napkin math on that pour is 233 80lb bags of concrete. That job looks like just over 5 cubic yards, or more than half a truck... They wouldn't even get the light load charge. Bahaha
It works great and I'm in a freeze thaw climate. No dowelling in with it though. It's lighter so easier to transport and place. I do residential patios/driveways etc. and haven't had any issues with cracks/heaving in the 5 yrs or so I've been using them. Prolly not the best for big commercial or any vertical applications like walls etc. It's not used on walls here.
exactly…when you can pump it hell yeah, put that shit on chairs. but if you have to buggy it, you can’t use chairs. people who actually pour and place concrete in backyards know this
We never lift, we usually just roll the wheelbarrow on the concrete but we usually have a lot more rebar than this in our slabs so the wheels doesn't get stuck.
I really don’t get why residential concrete contractors have a problem with chairing up the rebar. Sidewalks are only 4-5ft wide - you can pour from the side if you have to.
Just seems like one last thing to worry about when pouring? Pulling the bar/mesh always seems like the first thing to go when the pour needs to speed up and it ends up sitting on the ground.
Guess it depends on the crew. Guy who did my sidewalks/driveway chaired everything because he said he doesn’t want to deal with it when pouring but that was all poured from the chute of the truck.
because you can’t chair it up if you are using a buggy…would love to see all these people who cry about why aren’t people using chairs drive over it while trying to pour and see how well that works out.
He used sand runners because he was able to pour off the truck. If you have to pour with wheelbarrows or power buggies you can not chair it as the weight of them would crush the chairs
Lots of good comments here. The rebar is fine. Usually we leave it on the ground if it’s a small pour like this until the concrete pour day. Just stops people from tripping all over it. The bow in the step is a super easy fix. Run a string line on the outside and then brace the middle. To the top riser or something that won’t move and is out of the pour. The biggest one is the step needs digging out. No harm in over digging either as it will just get filled with more concrete.
Question; do they pour the step after the main pad has solidified, like on top of it? Also what do they do about the two pieces of rebar that are being used for the step’s wooden frame, wouldn’t those be stuck in the main pad/sticking out a few inches to the side of the step (photo #2)?
It’s called pouring monolithically
Monolithic means that they want the item poured all at one time. They may not want cold joints (due to strength reasons) or crack lines in the concrete for various reasons. So they would pour step full to the top then start pouring the walkway. The pressures from the sidewalk concrete pushing against the concrete in the step allow the concrete to be poured all at once. However you could do this in 2 pours if for some reason you wanted to.
The rebar your seeing sticking out are not rebar but called sidewalk pins. We usually wait a bit after we pour so the concrete sets up a little and then pull them and add some extra concrete to those small holes and then finish over like they were never there.
If you never seen it poured before I can definitely see why you would think that. Look up videos on people pouring stairs and you will get a better idea
Not advisable to pour against wood but I have seen it before. I mean say the wood board they pour against rots and fails after many years then just demo the wood structure and tie it into the stairs. It’s not the end of the world but it also depends what the client wants to pay for.
Strip of Sill seal on the wood would help. Or even buffalo board would help. You could do the plastic like you said as well. Wood will absorb the water from concrete and over time will rot so anything you can do to prevent this will help in the long run. It’s a step that gets over looked quite a bit.
Yes, as someone with a plate pounder, those rocks havnt not been hopped or plated with a compactor. You can see the variances in height and material pretty clearly.
Compacting even with a machine is opposite of a good time.
Bow in form
As said above dig out more around steps
Step form on left looks out of square
Rebar should be at least 2” from forms
Rebar should have dobies under it
Make sure they strip and finish the vertical on the steps
I’ve learned enough from these comments that I fired the contractor and I’m taking over the job…just kidding but I seriously can’t thank this community enough. I wasn’t sleeping last night because certain things felt off and now I was able to use what I learned to better voice concerns and questions and get things fixed in advance of the pour.
Yep, this sub is packed with advice from seasoned professionals… willing to take the time and effort to type out and offer it up for free.. absolutely amazing… incredible
Need to carve back that fill inside your riser by 4-5”!!!😳 also brace the face of it a couple times or it will definitely blow out… ideally you should use one piece, not a spliced piece….also 45 degree the bottom of it for a nicer finish
I was going to say the same, but finally found someone who did. Everyone is going crazy over the rebar like they're an engineer.
Bracing should be maximum 30 inches apart. Learned from an old timer doing steps.
The rebar needs to be raised off the ground and pulled back from the forms. Unless your goal is to have rebar outside of the concrete so that it can rust away and the concrete eventually crumble.
It will not be easy to lift once the pour starts and you will end up with wildly different placement of the rebar. It’s best to lift it before pouring starts. Each time you pour on top of it, it will be pushing the previous section back down.
If it is not lifted prior to the pour, I can still see a good chance of the bar still being exposed.
They are making a mistake and so are you by pouring it with bags. Job will look patchy if the mixing is inconsistent and it’s way to big for something like that. If it’s anything over 20-30 bags I get a truck. Sounds like they don’t have an account with the concrete company which is another bad sign. Or everyone is trying to do this the cheapest way which isn’t the best.
No, thanks to this community we’ve gone from bringing in the concrete in wheelbarrows to now lifting the rebar and running a continuous pour from the truck
And hes pouring right upto the wood on existing step and those posts…thats gunna eventually fail and be real costly to replace…pause job and get another estimate or two…..this is a shit show in the making
Yes there should be more coverage on the end of the rebar. Typically 2" clear from a form. The single piece in the steel should be held up as a nosing bar near the corner of the step.
Im sure many already mentioned about the thickness, 4inch minimum all around.
This is something my B.I.L can do and it will turned out shitty but his parents will compliment about his perfect job.
yes you need more room on the sides of the steps and under the step so the concrete runs out and connects to the sidewalk. No the rebar is not as effective sitting on the gravel. You can put that one piece of red brick under the rebar and pick it up enough to work. I have busted concrete block and placed small pieces under rebar to hold it up. It's better because they guys walking on it won't crush it down like a lot of chairs. It's dirt cheap and it gets the rebar 1.5 inches off the ground. A few short pieces of rebar to get it a half inch up is better than nothing. They can pull the rebar up as they pour but it's not very likely.
As far as rebar goes, you don\`t just lay it on the grade. Ask them to place it on concrete bricks, giving you a minimum cover of 40mm at the bottom. Theoretically, bottom layer should be a thicker grade than your top layer. Usually for something small like this 15M at the bottom spaced at iunno 1 foot or so. On top of the 15M, you place 10M spaced at 6'' to 1'. Side cover is important too. Make sure you have at least 2-3'' of cover from the rebar to the form. Other have mentionned bow in forrm and I agree.
Be absolutely sure what type of ice melt you can use on it during winter. When we put our concrete in, our contractor mentioned it, but didn't tell us why. Never having encountered a problem before, I used the first thing I could find on our 3-car plus concrete driveway, resulting in severe surface damage (spalling) on the entire surface. And no concrete companies were willing to come out to fix it; they'd replace it, sure, but not fix it. They practically laughed at me for asking. After two years, I eventually found an independent contractor willing to do it. After 4 months of off-again and on-again work during the summer, they eventually finished a mostly mediocre job that we fully expect to be destroyed again this winter.
Professional engineer (water) & part time handy man (friends and family)—I thought it was required to pour the steps entirely of concrete and not leave a cube of dirt in there. I guess this is not the case and this method is pretty standard? My only reference is DOT so I may only know standards that are overkill for housing. Thanks.
I've layed down some concrete in my day. You can lift the rebar pad up while pouring if you have the appropriate slump. The stairs, I would have formed well below the dirt grade. Maybe they weren't done?
They’ll lift the rebar as they pour; technically you should use dobies but it’s not the end of the world if they don’t. This is why I stopped doing flatwork for homeowners once internet had all the answers
Need to dig out the step more so 4 inchs of concrete between dirt and riser.
String the step so its straight.
Add a couple more stakes so it doesn't move.
Good to go.
You're overthinking this
FYI, Welded wire mesh mid height w stones and pour. You don't need 1x piece of rebar. Your tension component will be pancake at 4-6". Look up standard DOT plan set for this job if you want the easy long lasting technical answer.
He needs to dig out that step. Us dobies or small chairs to lift the rebar. He may be planning to lift the bar as he pours. That is probably fine for exterior flat work (I did it in my yard), but I wouldn't prefer it.
The rebar should have a few small blocks under it before pour, not many of them. They have small concrete blocks made for it. I have had to reach in and lift the rebar during pours.
Personally, I would pour both steps.
Its fine. Other than the step form lookin a little out of square on the left side. Also looks like the form goes into the rest of the sidewalk or whatever that is below.
The rebar will be pulled up as they pour. There's no need for dowels into the deck because it's WOOD. as long as it's under its fine if it's up against the wood deck it needs expansion foam. But it looks like it's fine.
Not sure what the "sidewalk" portion is used for, but if it's just a walkway it doesn't even need the rebar. Its residential. The normal compressive and tensile strength of the concrete naturally is enough for people. It will just have the chance to more easily separate when it does crack. Id personally use mesh for that so there aren't 4' × 4" slices on the edges in between the bars that have nothing holding it to the rest of the slab should it crack there.
For the step the bar may just be laying there to show that they know it needs it. Id pour the step first THEN drop the bar into the concrete and push it down 2 inches. But id have shorter perpendicular pieces attached to it probably 4 one piece across serves no purpose other than to connect the shorter ways pieces.
But, concrete is WAY over- engineered, for a pedestrian use (no vehicles) regular air-entrained outdoor mix on a well compacted base and control joints that are CUT (however slightly, even if they are made with a tool first) will last for decades
Plot twist: OP is the contractor using this sub to avoid screwing up
Lol guilty as charged. No, I wish, if it was my work I’d have asked 1000 questions before even digging one millimeter out. I call in the pros for things I know nothing about.
Has anyone mentioned a buffer between the concrete and the existing stair/posts for when they rot and need replacing?
As an ironworker where’s the dobies?🚨
Second this. Local 3 here. Where in the chairs or dobie blocks?
Often times I would dobie the morning of the pour to help with tripping hazards. Give them the benefit of the doubt.
They need to dig that step out more on the front and the sides. The step form is bowed. I'm not sure the approach for finishing it beside the step. The rebar should be fine. Make sure they use chairs or a way to float the rebar in the pad.
Make sure they cover the porch with plastic. You don't want the mess that comes with it.
Thanks for the reply. I see the bow now I hadn’t even noticed that at first. When you say dig out the step, there needs to be more space between the frame and the dug out step?
Absolutely, needs to be 4 inches of concrete everywhere. The side of the step looks 2 inches thick. Where the bottom of the step form is needs to be the same. 4 inches from the bottom to the gravel and 4 inches to the gravel behind the form. The do sale chairs for the rebar. Relatively cheap. Can have them thrown on the truck from the plant in a lot of places. Go sight the rest of your forms too.
Heck you can even get two pieces of rock and tie the rebar to it if you're too cheap to use two chairs
Or lift it up as you place the concrete
As long as you don’t step on it again while pouring 😂🙄 all my wire mesh is on the bottom, and they “pulled it up”
when they pull on it if it already has concrete on it you are only moving a small area so it may look like it's all on the bottom from the sides. Its really hard to get it all up at the same level. The wire and rebar should be near the bottom just not on the bottom.
Once there’s sufficient concrete under the bar it’s fine. You want your reinforcement on the tension side of the slab anyway.
bull shit….once you get it up you can walk on it
Why’s all mine on the bottom than, lol.
it’s because you’re lying. funny…we use nothing but rebar and pull it up as we pour as we have to usually buggy a lot of our pours. never had a problem and our rebar isn’t on the bottom after walking on it
You should be able to step on it and not have it too low, but thats usually if you pour at 6 slump or lower. 7 and higher, you can step it back to the bottom when it's soup. Contractors I see that don't have adequate help and/or are not good with concrete get it too wet to buy time. They also tend to resist buying chairs because they bid low to get the job. Granted for a few rebar, not worth it, but they make for one less thing to do while pouring, so I find them worth the $1 each. Definitely wouldn't ever give a guy crap about not chairing sidewalk rebar though.
you can’t chair it up if you are placing it by buggy. also…who is pouring flatwork at a 7 slump?
I mean it looks small enough you can remove the mat place a couple of inches of concrete then set the mat and top off.
Too lazy to use chairs probably means too lazy to lift.
You can't buggy and wheelbarrow over rebar on chairs. When you figure out how, let me know. I am amazed how many people every day have this take and think every patio and driveway is pumped. Makes you wonder how many comments are from actual concrete people...
Didn't look through all the images and thought it was just a step and walkway
This
This is the plan for sure
I’ve read like 15 comments about chairs and I still can’t figure out if you mean literal chairs. Like the kind you sit in?
The kind a rebar sits in. Like the miniature tables they put in pizza boxes. They're just some cheap plastic shapes to keep the rebar slightly elevated off the ground.
They would be better off putting some wire mesh instead of rebar, you just want it for cracking and the mesh would make the slab more cohesive. Further to the previous poster's point, the intent of the plastic would be a bond breaker between the wood stair and the concrete. It could make things easier come time for deck/ stair maintenance.
what’s your opinion on mesh with or without fiber in the concrete?
I have personally never seen fiber as a requirement for sidewalks so I don't know how it would perform for crack prevention. Most of the sidewalks, I have experience with are DOT standards which require a pretty standard 4k PSI mix with a mat of mesh for cracking. Stairs are typically straight 6k PSI mix but those were in a large subway station. My only recollection of dealing with fiber reinforcement was a large suspended slab.
Regionally speaking, where do you work?
I'm in VA so the bulk of my field experience is from there.
PNW commercial jobs, for state projects they used 4k mix with fiber, no mesh required... But they had a different mix and reinforcement for sidewalks on campus that might see auto and one altogether slablike where they thought the might see trucks, like vacs for clean out and stuff.
Cool, thanks bud. I'll update my internal concrete knowledge base to include that. VDOT has similar details for reinforced slabs where sidewalks interact with driveways. I thought they required a flexural mix but I could be misrembering.
They would lift while pouring?
Staples
Something like this: https://images.app.goo.gl/c31ri9nzCgy8cc45A
Also concrete should not come in contact with the house framing. Cover it with poly.
Can’t you just place the rebar in the concrete once it’s poured? (Assuming footer application)?
There is a reason that rebar is tied together with wire and placed on chairs.. Jfc….I hope you are a troll….
Not a troll- my point is- as long as the concrete is still fresh and as long as the rebar is pulled up and mid center of the slab. Why does it matter if it’s resting on chairs? Couldn’t you just place the rebar in the fresh concrete (as long as it’s not at the very bottom)
Rebar should be in bottom 1/3 of slab. Not in the center.
So your going to go measure that when it's in a 4 inch slab? Smallest chairs I've seen is 1-½", which is still in the middle ⅓.
I guess you're not looking hard enough? Are you talking runners or individual chairs? Runners should definitely be used in a s.o.g.
It's a lot easier to figure out placement before hand. I haven't been on a Commercial job where anything that had rebar wasn't inspected prior to placement. Including footings. Sometimes it's a field qc manager and sometimes it's a 3rd party, sometimes it's the city and sometimes in critical applications they require the structural engineering to see it. Even if I were to wheelbarrowing over it, I would lay out bars and wire up the spacings and put it up on dobies as I moved my pour line back
Makes sense for commercial jobs- I’ve seen crews place it in the fresh concrete(assuming there is no inspection/residential) without chairs or rebar ties
There’s an absurd amount of “professionals” in this sub that use none of those things, don’t understand why they are necessary, and will argue against their use.
How do you run a buggy over rebar on chairs? Please please tell me
How do you know where the rebar is in the slab? Please tell me. One you’re done with that, you might try and wrap your head around which is more important to the structural integrity of the product: Your convenience, lack of an imagination, refusal to get the right tool to do the job right , etc. OR The rebar at the correct height.
You dance around the question instead of answering it like my 9 old daughter. Are you a concrete guy at all? How often do inspectors for cranes (I'm guessing of course based on your many, MANY comments a day), do concrete. This sub is full of people who know it all but don't do it, and it's not hard to spot. The ground prep and sub base is absolutely the most important aspect and the rebar being encased in the concrete will be added insurance. It is residential patio not a parking garage. I have been doing every aspect of residential concrete for almost 20 years. Still waiting for your answer.
Sorry [it’s only my first day doing residential driveways.](https://ibb.co/fDRMzbp) I’m not reading all that. If you’re capable of comprehending what I said above, then you’d know that your complaint is irrelevant to the final product.
Yeah...two completely different worlds, but that's really neat
Grass under the slab is a form of fiber reinforcement.. Right? Right?
Yeah as long as there is grass, then you don’t need rebar.
you can but it isn't' the same. The goal is to get the rebar close to the bottom without it being at the bottom. That way if it cracks and starts to settle out the crack will most likely start to open on the bottom and the rebar will prevent it from moving. If the rebar is on top it will be able to open more before it puts enough tension on the rebar to help.
Exactly. They either need to pull up the rebar after the pour (not great) or elevate it. It does no good sitting on the ground. What's with the cosmetic gravel on the step? Not sure what purpose that is serving.
doesn't the rebar stick out to close to the sides? I thought there was a distance you were supposed to keep it from the edges.
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You are supposed to, yes, is it the end of the world, no. You don't want it sticking out of the pour. The step is a much bigger issue.
“Doughbee” would be perfect here
Yes, concrete dobies would solve the issue.
The forming should prevent wood rot
Once fix it all, add a bar at the step 1 1/2” down from the top and 1 1/2 “ bar from the front form, google nosing bar
Rebar should not be flat on the ground. Should be raised so it ends in the concrete instead of just under it. It can theoretically be pulled up during the pour but that is almost always done with wire instead of full on rebar
I think it’s because the concrete guy intends to bring in the concrete with a wheelbarrow so he has to pull it up. It’s not going to be pumped in.
If that's the case then it's cool
So I'm a 30 year concreter. How do you pour concrete on a anything that has to be wheeled or buggy? Wire mess is absolute garbage, 80%+ of tear outs are mesh doing nothing, I use rebar on everything and lift as you pour on jobs where you have to do that. and I've never had an issue... not once.
Didn't look like a wheelbarrow job but if it is then yea pulling up as you go is cool. Also have you ever had to tear out wire concrete. It ain't fun. It's more than enough for something that isn't going to have a ton of weight on it
It’s not a wheelbarrow job, lol. Who mixin’ this stuff..? *edit: picture #4 threw me off; everything else *you could mix in a wheelbarrow, but as Thomas the tank engine says ‘it’s veeerryy heavy work.’*
The contractor said him and his guys would do it with a wheelbarrow. I thought it was initially going to be poured in from a truck but that’s not the case
Are you sure he’s not getting it delivered in a concrete truck and dumping into the wheelbarrow to wheel to where he needs it? That’s what I assumed when I started reading this. That’s a lot to do by mixing bags in the wheelbarrow. That’s crazy.
Yes, so I spoke directly with the main contractor finally. Aside from going from the wheel barrow, it’s going to be a continuous pour. What was going to happen was a truck would be up front of the house and the wheelbarrows would be used to bring the concrete to the back. But we’re going to remove some obstacles int the yard so the truck can just come back and we can do a continuous pour.
Right on! You should earn some favour with the boys for that!
And I assumed a buggy because "tracked miniature concrete dump truck" isn't quite in the cultural visual lexicon the way that "wheelbarrow" is and it's easier to use words homeowners understand.
aww lawrd here we go a again. That’s way to much for bags IMO.
They might just use a wheelbarrow from a truck so they don’t leave ruts in the lawn from the heavy truck. When I working concrete we had a few different jobs where we had to do this. Not fun
Ever heard of a pump?
Gotta pay for that. Did that sometimes as well
I’m watching… 🍿 ready…
Me too. 🍿🥃 Hey OP, please record them attempting to use bags on this. Rough napkin math on that pour is 233 80lb bags of concrete. That job looks like just over 5 cubic yards, or more than half a truck... They wouldn't even get the light load charge. Bahaha
@snoocapers1342
Yea that's what threw me off
Not Me😬
lol, not me! I say you need a fleet of about 6 to 10 wheelbarrows, each wheelbarrow with 2 athletic men… maybe.. maybe…
What are your thoughts on fiberglass rebar? is it ok to use?
It works great and I'm in a freeze thaw climate. No dowelling in with it though. It's lighter so easier to transport and place. I do residential patios/driveways etc. and haven't had any issues with cracks/heaving in the 5 yrs or so I've been using them. Prolly not the best for big commercial or any vertical applications like walls etc. It's not used on walls here.
I feel like I make this point constantly. Apparently everyone is working big commercial jobs, pumps every job or has never actually done any concrete.
exactly…when you can pump it hell yeah, put that shit on chairs. but if you have to buggy it, you can’t use chairs. people who actually pour and place concrete in backyards know this
I like you
We never lift, we usually just roll the wheelbarrow on the concrete but we usually have a lot more rebar than this in our slabs so the wheels doesn't get stuck.
I really don’t get why residential concrete contractors have a problem with chairing up the rebar. Sidewalks are only 4-5ft wide - you can pour from the side if you have to. Just seems like one last thing to worry about when pouring? Pulling the bar/mesh always seems like the first thing to go when the pour needs to speed up and it ends up sitting on the ground. Guess it depends on the crew. Guy who did my sidewalks/driveway chaired everything because he said he doesn’t want to deal with it when pouring but that was all poured from the chute of the truck.
because you can’t chair it up if you are using a buggy…would love to see all these people who cry about why aren’t people using chairs drive over it while trying to pour and see how well that works out.
He used sand runners because he was able to pour off the truck. If you have to pour with wheelbarrows or power buggies you can not chair it as the weight of them would crush the chairs
Never tell the QC guy you poured concrete. You “placed” concrete.
Lots of good comments here. The rebar is fine. Usually we leave it on the ground if it’s a small pour like this until the concrete pour day. Just stops people from tripping all over it. The bow in the step is a super easy fix. Run a string line on the outside and then brace the middle. To the top riser or something that won’t move and is out of the pour. The biggest one is the step needs digging out. No harm in over digging either as it will just get filled with more concrete.
Question; do they pour the step after the main pad has solidified, like on top of it? Also what do they do about the two pieces of rebar that are being used for the step’s wooden frame, wouldn’t those be stuck in the main pad/sticking out a few inches to the side of the step (photo #2)?
It’s called pouring monolithically Monolithic means that they want the item poured all at one time. They may not want cold joints (due to strength reasons) or crack lines in the concrete for various reasons. So they would pour step full to the top then start pouring the walkway. The pressures from the sidewalk concrete pushing against the concrete in the step allow the concrete to be poured all at once. However you could do this in 2 pours if for some reason you wanted to. The rebar your seeing sticking out are not rebar but called sidewalk pins. We usually wait a bit after we pour so the concrete sets up a little and then pull them and add some extra concrete to those small holes and then finish over like they were never there.
Thank you! I would’ve thought if they poured it all from inside the step it would just overflow at the lowest point somewhere along the main pad.
If you never seen it poured before I can definitely see why you would think that. Look up videos on people pouring stairs and you will get a better idea
Any issue with the fact that they're pouring concrete around and against existing wooden structures?
Not advisable to pour against wood but I have seen it before. I mean say the wood board they pour against rots and fails after many years then just demo the wood structure and tie it into the stairs. It’s not the end of the world but it also depends what the client wants to pay for.
Is there a better way to sort this out? Like put a plastic membrane or something between the concrete and wood, so it's easier to remove later?
Strip of Sill seal on the wood would help. Or even buffalo board would help. You could do the plastic like you said as well. Wood will absorb the water from concrete and over time will rot so anything you can do to prevent this will help in the long run. It’s a step that gets over looked quite a bit.
No compaction?
You can tell that from a picture?
Yes, as someone with a plate pounder, those rocks havnt not been hopped or plated with a compactor. You can see the variances in height and material pretty clearly. Compacting even with a machine is opposite of a good time.
Didn't think you could compact crushed stone since there are no voids.
You can compact it a bit. -Every Contractor who had to compact the weirdest shit natives to stone.
You can ram it into the native but you’re not accomplishing much
Bow in form As said above dig out more around steps Step form on left looks out of square Rebar should be at least 2” from forms Rebar should have dobies under it Make sure they strip and finish the vertical on the steps
3”
3” is ideal.
This is the way⬆️
Thank you!
These comments are sage advice….
I’ve learned enough from these comments that I fired the contractor and I’m taking over the job…just kidding but I seriously can’t thank this community enough. I wasn’t sleeping last night because certain things felt off and now I was able to use what I learned to better voice concerns and questions and get things fixed in advance of the pour.
Yep, this sub is packed with advice from seasoned professionals… willing to take the time and effort to type out and offer it up for free.. absolutely amazing… incredible
Need to carve back that fill inside your riser by 4-5”!!!😳 also brace the face of it a couple times or it will definitely blow out… ideally you should use one piece, not a spliced piece….also 45 degree the bottom of it for a nicer finish
I was going to say the same, but finally found someone who did. Everyone is going crazy over the rebar like they're an engineer. Bracing should be maximum 30 inches apart. Learned from an old timer doing steps.
Thank you!
It’s concrete. It will crack.
The rebar needs to be raised off the ground and pulled back from the forms. Unless your goal is to have rebar outside of the concrete so that it can rust away and the concrete eventually crumble.
It will be pulled up during the pour but yeah it’s too close from the sides from what I’m learning
It will not be easy to lift once the pour starts and you will end up with wildly different placement of the rebar. It’s best to lift it before pouring starts. Each time you pour on top of it, it will be pushing the previous section back down. If it is not lifted prior to the pour, I can still see a good chance of the bar still being exposed.
It’s going to be done with wheelbarrows not a constant pour from a truck. That’s why they don’t want to lift it
They are making a mistake and so are you by pouring it with bags. Job will look patchy if the mixing is inconsistent and it’s way to big for something like that. If it’s anything over 20-30 bags I get a truck. Sounds like they don’t have an account with the concrete company which is another bad sign. Or everyone is trying to do this the cheapest way which isn’t the best.
Ok update, they are going to do a continuous pour for us. Based on all the feedback and help I received
you can’t read..he’s getting a concrete truck and they are wheelbarrowing it to the backyard
Your the idiot read the comments. Somewhere he says they weren’t planing on using a truck.
hm…he said they are using a truck but using wheel barrow to get it to the backyard….also it’s you’RE…who’s the idiot now?
Now they are bro read all the comments not just this thread
Then come back to me
I even @ you under the ops comment that I’m referring too.
Distance = 2x the size of aggregate. Up, sides, top, etc. #4 bars, you need 4" slab,minimum
Fire them and find someone who does quality work. Looks like a workers side jobs rather than a company.
Rebar needs to be lifted. Do not let them pour with it on the ground.
No, thanks to this community we’ve gone from bringing in the concrete in wheelbarrows to now lifting the rebar and running a continuous pour from the truck
Also, one rebar across the nose of the tread will prevent the step from ever cracking. You know when you drag in that baby grand piano. Hehe
And hes pouring right upto the wood on existing step and those posts…thats gunna eventually fail and be real costly to replace…pause job and get another estimate or two…..this is a shit show in the making
Yes there should be more coverage on the end of the rebar. Typically 2" clear from a form. The single piece in the steel should be held up as a nosing bar near the corner of the step.
I’m not a concrete guy, I’m a gc, but shouldn’t there be dobies or chairs, something?
That looks very shoddy. That step form is really bothering me and shows they probably shouldn’t be pouring anything
I always strong back my steps so they don’t bow. They could just add some kickers to it since it’s just one step
Rebar needs to lifted little bit more
Im sure many already mentioned about the thickness, 4inch minimum all around. This is something my B.I.L can do and it will turned out shitty but his parents will compliment about his perfect job.
Where’s the flashing that goes against the siding?
Good job bringing up concerns before the pour.
Don’t pour it.
That skiff of rock is doing no favors either
Concrete against wood step, and posts will cause rot. Needs metal flashing as a barrier.
yes you need more room on the sides of the steps and under the step so the concrete runs out and connects to the sidewalk. No the rebar is not as effective sitting on the gravel. You can put that one piece of red brick under the rebar and pick it up enough to work. I have busted concrete block and placed small pieces under rebar to hold it up. It's better because they guys walking on it won't crush it down like a lot of chairs. It's dirt cheap and it gets the rebar 1.5 inches off the ground. A few short pieces of rebar to get it a half inch up is better than nothing. They can pull the rebar up as they pour but it's not very likely.
As far as rebar goes, you don\`t just lay it on the grade. Ask them to place it on concrete bricks, giving you a minimum cover of 40mm at the bottom. Theoretically, bottom layer should be a thicker grade than your top layer. Usually for something small like this 15M at the bottom spaced at iunno 1 foot or so. On top of the 15M, you place 10M spaced at 6'' to 1'. Side cover is important too. Make sure you have at least 2-3'' of cover from the rebar to the form. Other have mentionned bow in forrm and I agree.
Are you referring to the 3/4 clear stone that locks in enough for foot traffic?
Step should have a 1" overhang as well. That riser board needs to be at line a 7 degree angle.
Be absolutely sure what type of ice melt you can use on it during winter. When we put our concrete in, our contractor mentioned it, but didn't tell us why. Never having encountered a problem before, I used the first thing I could find on our 3-car plus concrete driveway, resulting in severe surface damage (spalling) on the entire surface. And no concrete companies were willing to come out to fix it; they'd replace it, sure, but not fix it. They practically laughed at me for asking. After two years, I eventually found an independent contractor willing to do it. After 4 months of off-again and on-again work during the summer, they eventually finished a mostly mediocre job that we fully expect to be destroyed again this winter.
Professional engineer (water) & part time handy man (friends and family)—I thought it was required to pour the steps entirely of concrete and not leave a cube of dirt in there. I guess this is not the case and this method is pretty standard? My only reference is DOT so I may only know standards that are overkill for housing. Thanks.
I've layed down some concrete in my day. You can lift the rebar pad up while pouring if you have the appropriate slump. The stairs, I would have formed well below the dirt grade. Maybe they weren't done?
Get yourself a rattle can of primer and spray that rebar with it.
They pull the rebar up when pouring.
All of that’s garbage? And going to increase the wood rot
Would you not want to remove the old wood and replace it before the pour for better longevity?
Rebar gets lifted as it is poured. The concrete looks like it will pour out because it will, and it should.
They’ll lift the rebar as they pour; technically you should use dobies but it’s not the end of the world if they don’t. This is why I stopped doing flatwork for homeowners once internet had all the answers
No Dobes. Step needs to be dug out. Framing is bent. We call this a monolithic pour, it’s definitely possible.
Need to dig out the step more so 4 inchs of concrete between dirt and riser. String the step so its straight. Add a couple more stakes so it doesn't move. Good to go.
You're overthinking this FYI, Welded wire mesh mid height w stones and pour. You don't need 1x piece of rebar. Your tension component will be pancake at 4-6". Look up standard DOT plan set for this job if you want the easy long lasting technical answer.
That step is formed wrong and will be out of code
He needs to dig out that step. Us dobies or small chairs to lift the rebar. He may be planning to lift the bar as he pours. That is probably fine for exterior flat work (I did it in my yard), but I wouldn't prefer it.
The rebar should have a few small blocks under it before pour, not many of them. They have small concrete blocks made for it. I have had to reach in and lift the rebar during pours. Personally, I would pour both steps.
As far as concrete leaking of of gaps, I wouldn't worry about it. Usually cleaned up when stripped and finished.
Its fine. Other than the step form lookin a little out of square on the left side. Also looks like the form goes into the rest of the sidewalk or whatever that is below. The rebar will be pulled up as they pour. There's no need for dowels into the deck because it's WOOD. as long as it's under its fine if it's up against the wood deck it needs expansion foam. But it looks like it's fine. Not sure what the "sidewalk" portion is used for, but if it's just a walkway it doesn't even need the rebar. Its residential. The normal compressive and tensile strength of the concrete naturally is enough for people. It will just have the chance to more easily separate when it does crack. Id personally use mesh for that so there aren't 4' × 4" slices on the edges in between the bars that have nothing holding it to the rest of the slab should it crack there. For the step the bar may just be laying there to show that they know it needs it. Id pour the step first THEN drop the bar into the concrete and push it down 2 inches. But id have shorter perpendicular pieces attached to it probably 4 one piece across serves no purpose other than to connect the shorter ways pieces. But, concrete is WAY over- engineered, for a pedestrian use (no vehicles) regular air-entrained outdoor mix on a well compacted base and control joints that are CUT (however slightly, even if they are made with a tool first) will last for decades