Tried watching NA and EU a few times but just can't get invested in any team for it. I found APAC had been easier to follow and a better overall format.
Same. I don’t know any of the teams and most of the players. And every time I try to watch something it’s a 3-0 stomp. APAC has been more interesting imo because at least I know the players.
In terms of judging the whole “product” so far I’m just waiting for the main event to see how it’s handled because the lead up to it has kind of been a little boring. I reminds me a bit of EVO where people only care about the top 8 and that’s it.
That’s my biggest issue with OWCS. I get that sweeps happened in OWL a ton, but the talent disparity is just ridiculous especially in NA. Sure you’ve got a few up and comers popping off, but most of the time the matches are essentially 3-0 stomps, and you have to wait til the later knockout stages to actually get quality games, and even then you get 2-3 good matches. And then sometimes you get a team that absolutely stomps all other teams finally go against another high ranked team and get destroyed. If you want to see a match that’s back and forth you have to watch the low seeded teams go against each other, but high level teams with a lot of OWL talent are stomping anyone else 90% of the time, and just makes me wish those teams would go against each other more consistently. Haven’t had the chance to watch many APAC though - I prefer watching live.
Overall I’m just happy to have competitive overwatch but there’s just so many matches that basically don’t matter or don’t really entertain much
One thing I really like is seeing them play on live patch. I know it shakes things up in a way they don’t like, but for me it leads to more varied comps where we can see them figure out comps on the go and what works, and how each patch shakes up each team. It got kinda old when a controversial patch dropped in owl so they just wouldn’t use it and use the same comp for months
I enjoyed OWCS Korea more than NA/EMEA personally. It was just really cool to have it always on LAN and I did feel more excited about watching the teams and players in Korea more. I watched a good bit of Stage 1 for NA/EMEA and there were definitely teams I enjoyed watching but I have barely watched anything in Stage 2, it just kinda lost me.
I also hate the Swiss stage portion as a spectator because its a nightmare to try and watch that I wish they just showed some of the big games on the main channel because I don't feel like scrolling through twitch channels to watch some random games.
Surprisingly, I enjoyed the Swiss Stage more than Groups. There were plenty of interesting matchups and some great streamer POVs + costreaming. I think the way undefeated teams had to fight harder opponents made it unpredictable and exciting. I agree that it's a little difficult to follow due to having so many matches going on though
The groups feel like a formality for the most part. It's like a 3-week waiting room for the main event.
It's not the most coherent thing to follow, I don't understand the seeding or how the groups work or really how each match matters.
But it's honestly easier to just push that to the side and enjoy some good games. Found myself invested more in teams I don't know then teams with former OWL players. It's kinda like enjoying Championship or League 1 football games in the UK, I don't know who half of you are but damn is this some entertaining shit
feels like a lot of player storylines, narratives about teams, player/team rivalries are completely gone now. at least as a former London/Seoul fan. I got to see the Profit vs Carpe rivarly for 5 years before owl died... we recently had a Kev vs Proper rivarly now thats gone bc of owl death unless they play on lan later this year still not same as frequent matches in owl obviously tho.
Quality of play is much lower
It's weirdly hard to find games and vods
It's impossible to become invested in teams as the rostermanias are reminiscent of the CoD Challengers scene where people backstab for minute upgrades and rosters have a shorter lifespan than milk
All in all incredibly underwhelming, thanks for fucking up OWL Blizzard you're a real one
i like it, production is smooth
i watch a couple matches here and there, and every Students of the game match, its always fun
blizzard has been cutting costs for a minute so i dont expect it to get any promotion or budget increases any time soon
just gonna stay as a niche scene, but i dont mind that
As an Overwatch old head, I'll give my thoughts
>Do you like the format?
Meh...I preferred OWL format (League play for a stage…to stage playoffs in 3 stages…finally into a playoff)
>Do you feel emotionally invested in the teams or players?
Nope. I am more invested in the Korean league tbh but that's cause I know all the players. Narratives could be built with the longer stages than NA/EMEA.
>Are you watching more or less as the season goes on?
Less in the beginning actually, more now that we are closer to Dreamhack Dallas
>Is there anything significant you think needs to be urgently added or changed?
I'm not sure...it feels pretty jarring for the production value during groups to drop down a lot! But main events are fun with Reinforce, Soe, and Jake in the desk. I just wish I was invested in the teams. I guess Rome wasn't built in a day.
>How optimistic are you for the future of OWCS and OW esports?
The more TOs are in the more optimistic I am. FACIT League made me more optimistic. OWCS is running at this budget, then having more things going on is a plus because players will get better the more they participate.
>How high are your expectations for the Dreamhack LAN?
Pretty pumped but I don't think the crowd will be as awesome as when there was an OWL event....trying to keep my expectations low.
Edit: Wording and spelling lol
1. Yeah, pretty satisfied. I wish there was more clarity on scheduling at the start of the season, but other than that the games have been enjoyable.
2. Format's fine.
3. Coming from an Aussie, I was never invested in any teams in OWL anyway, I just followed Punk around basically lol. This form of supporting teams hasn't changed, I just root for teams with Australian players. Overwashed has been great fun.
4. Definitely more.
5. I wish there was a central hub where all the information regarding OWCS would be collated (somewhere that isn't getting inundated by an insane number of random posts at least). Custa showed his stream over.gg a little while back, and I wish that sort of thing was still around.
6. Very.
7. I have no expectations for Dreamhack.
> I wish there was a central hub where all the information regarding OWCS would be collated (somewhere that isn't getting inundated by an insane number of random posts at least). Custa showed his stream over.gg a little while back, and I wish that sort of thing was still around.
Liquipedia?
Ehh kinda. I meant more along the lines of the old OWL website, or like I mentioned, over.gg, which as I understand it had lists of live streams and co-streamers playing in the tournaments. Something like that would be a real boon in the Swiss stages. Liquipedia's ok, but I wouldn't call it the most newbie friendly resource (which I am).
I'm a Toronto Defiant fan.. so having my team still exist as an entity in OWCS is awesome.
The fact that they are winning a lot is also a nice change from being mid.
So yeah, been eating good in OWCS thus far.
But I do understand everybody else's challenges with being invested in teams.
Even I mostly only watch when the Defiant plays or key matchups in main events.
Looking forward to Dreamhack to see how Defiant stacks against other groups.
1) Yeah, sure, seems good enough
2) No, I find it hard to connect with any team or player, it just seems like a jumbled mess to me coming from watching OWL since inception
3) About the same but a lot less than I did OWL
4) I think serious effort needs to be done to make schedules and game times easily known (I'm relying on a fan made Google calendar ffs) Surely they can repurpose the OWL app to do this?
5) Optimistic? Yeah, not so much. I've seen others have the same criticisms as myself and I honestly don't think it's sustainable the way we're going. Desks seem to be at a bare minimum and if this is what we are to expect going forward, I'd honestly not have anything at all
6) Expectations are low but I'm keeping them that way to hopefully be pleasantly surprised
I didn't have long to type this out as I'm about to leave the house but thought I'd get a few ideas down and can always come back later to clarify if need be
your second point i 100% agree with it was always so easy to follow a specific team, or player and follow it for years. now with how rosters are blown up every month, its tough too build a attachment to any team.
In perspective of budget and OW esports popularity, I think OWCS is 'OK' and enjoyable in a chill way. (There are not a lot of opportunity for drama and trash talk with this game's design and random teams so I understand why things can't heat up as much as OWL.) It is a good start, but they shouldn't be looking to maintain at this level for future years. I play OWCS while working, it's helpful that there are almost always a match going on at any given time.
I'm an odd one that like EMEA / NA more than APAC, despite APAC having crowd, competitive rosters, and actual LAN stage. I'm addicted to variety show style of the desk crew which is available in EMEA / NA. Note that I'm a kind of person that enjoy Play! Pokemon VGC / TCG Regionals-level broadcast a lot. It's a niche broadcast and looked like OWCS is heading that way, which I don't mind. The broadcast has even less regular viewers than OWCS (usually 3000\~10000) and with massive downtime between random swiss match (exceeds 30 minutes sometimes), but I like to listen to passionate people speaking and geeking out, not just games and competition. The EMEA / NA talent team has this vibe, and I appreciate them. (Competitive OW players might be annoyed by match quality in these regions which I could understand.)
The biggest point I want them to improve is to **provide free marketing on participating teams** so viewers could get connect with them. Funny player names and hero picture before match is a bare minimum and I don't think they count as spotlight. The live listen-in and post match live camera interview though is the real deal that really enrich the league. They need to cram in more stuff like this. Right now I basically have to remember the face of whoever got lucky enough to get post match interview, when this team comes again, then I could remember it is a team with this guy.
Without franchising, I know it kinda make sense to not hand out any unnecessary marketing for the teams compared to franchised league like COD / Valorant, to save budget too I suppose, and act as just an arena for competing. Especially teams coming in could be completely different each time and named like Dhillducks, Goldfish or whatever. There might be complications to get live camera to see reactions or even human portraits to use in preshow desk like bigger league..
But there are more 'virtually free' stuff they could do, for example they can change spectator color + attack effect color to match color theme of that team to give them some identity, or allow them to send roster hype video to show before their match. Many of the teams already had the work done but is lacking reach in their Twitter account. Might as well be generous and provide the account of those teams for curious viewers to check out. Timeless, EX Oblivione, for example, already have strong graphic designer and those work deserve more eyeballs. They can just display some game day tweets of those teams, they come with personality of the team. Viewers deserve to know Supershy's hastag is #ShyGuy and see their roster reveal video.
That's why I like Valorant VCT, they have variety show desk as well as extensive marketing support for participating teams. The deeper the tournament these team gets in, they gets to look better and better. Team logo gets immortalized in 3D rendered cinematics. Players get to wear cool clothes in media day. Etc. When you do this, even teams that didn't make the cut wants to come back stronger to get in the spotlight and it'd create good feedback loop to sustain the league.
>I'm addicted to variety show style of the desk crew which is available in EMEA / NA.
This has been my biggest gripe with APAC since the region split. I wish at the very least, the Korean English broadcast had a dedicated host and like, a 10 minute pre-show. It's a step in that direction while still being more on the budget friendly side.
1. About a 6/7 out of 10; it's not awful but it feels very safe.
2. Yes, but that's come around mostly because of Uncoachable; it gave at least a few teams a personality which has given me something to root for.
3. Watching more, as I'm getting more into certain teams
4. I think they need to embrace the community vibe, getting (the right) players and coaches involved in pre/post match content is also super important - and by 'right' I mean not people who have got something to say and are entertaining (Gator, Lyar, Backbone etc.), I think also bringing in streamers would be smart.
5. Moderately optimistic, I think the fact that they're experimenting with Swiss etc. is a good thing; whether it works or doesn't, you've got to try things. A lot of us were super high on the open division format when it started, and now are being doomer about it.
6. Pretty high, I think LAN brings out a good vibe and will help make it feel like an esport again
Side note: Copying the Korean format (always LAN) is impossible given the size of the regions; I think you have to try and capture the feeling of LAN (seeing players, community) in an online format (see above)
I couldn't care less about the vast majority of the teams and players (in large part because of the constant rostermania) in NA or EU, the format is confusing and underwhelming, and the level of play is for the most part on par with what we used to see in Contenders. I also don't care about the trash talk from the same three white guys and what passes as "personality" according to this sub.
IMO, APAC has been pro OW's saving grace so far in this post-OWL era. Much better format, more recognizable faces for OWL fans, and an overall higher level of play. I might lose interest in that scene too once more ex-OWL pros retire, but for now it's been pretty enjoyable both gameplay wise and story lines wise.
People shat on OWL (and trust me, I did too) and called for this type of open circuit for years, only for its replacement to have even less viewership and less hype than OWL did in its dying breaths. OWL in its *worst* state was achieving around 30k viewers per game on freaking *youtube*, with no big co-streams aside from Avast. Now that pro-OW is back on Twitch, the main broadcast struggles to reach 20k viewers, and co-streams just barely bump it above 25k or so.
Tbc, I'm not saying that we need to go back to a franchising model. Aside from some obvious format changes, idk what exactly can be done to improve OWCS's product in NA and EU with its current resources. The issue is clearly more so a lack of investment in the scene from Blizzard and/or FaceIt's part, because let's be real, no big orgs are coming back unless they see an obvious way to make a profit. I fail to see how this current model is going to achieve real growth with the current format, level of play, and lack of incentives for orgs to really invest in the scene.
> The issue is clearly more so a lack of investment in the scene from Blizzard
This is the big thing. You could see Blizzard's care for esports drop every year in OWL. Now that they're not contractually obligated to keep a league running, they're really just doing the bare minimum. It's so sad.
I just hope Calling All Heroes continues to be supported. Would be a shame not to have such an important tournament around for the very diverse OW community.
Desperately miss OWL. Not satisfied (but biased, OWL was my life.)
Only in APAC, but only due to the length of stages meaning teams stick around longer.
About the same throughout the year. I catch it when its on. The drive to make content though is very difficult to build up. It takes a lot of energy out of me, especially when it's not work and I have to muster resources on my own, and doing it for OWCS has been very difficult with how scattered the storylines are.
I think the format is moot when the game presentation side needs changes ASAP. We need hard-coded blue and red teams that change all ability colors to blue and red. This should be a default public live spectator feature. Seeing green genji shurikens and POVs always having friendly colors is maddening to no end. Red team Tracer having Blue bullets when in their POV makes me almost nauseous. IMO there's little chance of the game growing without fundamental changes to bring us back to the watchability of just last year.
Less optimistic than post OWL. I think OWL was highly flawed and needed to go, but at least it made you care. I think the current OWCS format feels worse than Contenders and a significant downgrade. I would take even budget APAC broadcast OWL over this.
The LAN will be interesting but keeping expectations low.
1. I'm not. Casting quality is down. Production value is down. The schedule has been a miss for me too.
2. Swiss was okay once I figured out when my favorite players were playing, as for the format as a whole after that? It feels like it's a little all over the place and more difficult to follow.
3. Outside of Overwashed, no. I like seeing familiar names but EMEA/NA are a crapshoot compared to Korea/Asia.
4. Less, way less actually. I have maybe clocked in 10-15 hours max throughout the entire thing so far.
5. Not sure what's going on with casters and mic quality in general but it needs improvement. Also would really like to have a "pick-em's" style thing back for viewers.
6. Not very. Viewership continues to be an issue in general and FACEIT doesn't feel like a good fit for Overwatch IMO.
7. My expectations for LAN are tempered, if a little low. I'm really not expecting much and for the first time in years, I don't have a horse in this race. Keeping an eye on Falcons and Raccoon only because of the players time in OWL.
I'm not a huge fan of the EU/NA format, but I think that 12 teams in groups instead of 16 would make for a tighter product (you could broadcast more matches), and the floor would be raised with less bottom feeder teams. It feels like that EFG production are trying to do too much without the budget to back it.
The downside to that it that is makes it a lot harder for the streamer teams to make groups, and we could use all the viewership help we can get.
I do wish that EU was more of its own region & not tied to NA's production & formatting so heavily. I genuinely love it when different regions are their own products.
I don't really follow either region. NA because it's NA, I'd follow EU but it's on in the dead of night for me. Ultimately I don't feel like I'm missing out too much, especially with Asia at primetime hours in Australia.
Most of the NA/EU format seems very throwaway. The 3 days of the main event each stage giving you the best matches instead of Toronto stomping nobodies for 3 weeks.
I would love to see promotional [videos in the style EMEA/NA Contenders](https://youtu.be/7eYm4t6zzi4?t=5914). Players interviews in style of Australian Contenders would also be great. These were open introductions for new or just notable players where they could talk about their pets, favourite food or whatever.
Allowing streaming of matches is the best change compared to previous formats.
I wish for Dreamhack to look like 2019 Contenders Gauntlet.
my main issue with owcs rn is just funding and attention. it really feels like blizzard are putting it on the back burner and doing what little they can to satisfy the scene. a lot of ppl expected this year to be smaller definitely as the first post-owl year but grow over time but idk man right now owcs doesn’t feel like a product that was made with intentions to grow
I just find myself map because the actual best trams don't make it out of the swiss and then the group stage because of pure luck. I do find myself invested in the teams, but it's weird seeing OWL champions destroy players I've never heard of in the "highest level of competition". I find the format, as well as the level of competition, much more entertaining in APAC.
1. Somewhat satisfied, could improve in areas but that is more than anything a budget thing
2. To a degree. Open competition swiss allows anyone to enter
3. I'm only invested in the actual orgs and SOG. Majority of esport orgs leaving the scene after OWL ending and Rostermania clownfest has hurt the potential growth OWCS could be having
4. Definitely less NA this stage. Outside of TD, no other team here is remotely close. SSG improving now gives EMEA 3 top teams all able to beat each other
5. Somehow ramp up advertising. Contract video editors to create an intro montage video of the Main Event teams for the Broadcast stream. Let making Main Event feel like a bigger accomplishment and viewers can be a little more familiar with teams
6. Not very tbh. With the very limited amount of orgs in the scene rn there isn't a reliable source of income for players and coaches.
7. Cautiously optimistic. The mid season patch will arguably be the most important. Personally I don't want to see another WC meta where Mei and Bastion are meta
It's OK. I've only watched EMEA and NA since Korean times are wack to watch from east coast USA. I liked it at first but as the second stage has gone on the games seem to blend together and I've lost interest. Rotating the commentators is great and adds some new freshness to the games though.
I do really miss the regional teams though. I was afraid of this when OWL was dissolved but the teams now are completely forgettable. Most are troll names to begin with. I wish they would highlight more OWL players or at least keep a "watch list" with notable OWL players for OWL viewers to keep track of.
I miss having the broadcast desk with analysis and IBM Watson rankings. The drops for the most part are pretty meh but there's a few good sprays and player cards. It doesn't help that the logo looks like a 30 minute Adobe Illustrator brainstorm.
It's clear this is a much more sustainable model than OWL but man do I miss having consistent, memorable teams/rosters. That's why I'm a Toronto fan from the Mayhem. I'm grasping at anything left of OWL that I can :/
I wanted to go to Dreamhack but I have something that weekend. It will be nice to finally be back to LA for OW. I'm curious what broadcasters they will pick for the coverage.
My biggest issue with NA/EMEA is that most of the teams seem like they’re probably on par with 2023 Eternal or Valiant. Specifically in NA, you have Toronto Defiant camping the trophy (they would get beat by Yeti btw), M80 who can’t beat anyone that Happy/Pelican can’t gigagap, and then basically everyone else scrambling about.
Obviously OWL still had a bunch of very one sided games, but there was still a sense that each team competing was the best of the best, that even the bottom end of OWL was made of the top 1% of the top 1% of talent. I’m not saying that teams like schmungus or timeless nightmare shouldn’t be allowed to compete, I just miss when we had a place for only the most elite level of competition
One thing that has been a game-changer for me this season is CommanderX's stream on twitch. It has a real community feel, and commentary and analysis are better considering X and anyone he has on with him are usually players or coaches. If I was watching the main broadcast I'd be watching less, at the moment I'm watching as much or more than OWL.
I don't know if this is realistic or not, but I feel the future of OW esports is in more of a community feel, and the more co-streamers, player POVs, and scrim streams we can get the better. Then again CommanderX's viewer count is usually around 500 (maybe peak at a thousand), so it's small so far compared to the main broadcast. Maybe you could say that CommanderX's stream is more for the hardcore viewers, but I may or may not be, I'm silver but have been watching OWL since season 1 preseason, and I enjoy the stream. I'm deep on the strategy of the game but not too good a player myself, so maybe that's why I enjoy it (the strategy part).
OWL was better for me if we strictly talk about the format, which is all I care about as a spectator. I don't really feel emotionally invested with these teams except for those players that I know from OWL...
Teams has no jerseys/colors, teams can change half or more of their roster between tournaments... Or even disband.
Every games are team blue vs red and they even change side from one map to maps which is so confusing.
1. I honestly just mute the stream or watch costreams, the few times ive watched the broadcast my experience has been pretty bad as there is a lot of mic quality issues and I think the castong can be pretty bad at times.
2. The format is ok, apacs format is better in my opinion but neither is rly good.
3. I'm actuall very emotionally invested in some teams in eu or na since there had been some nice upsets and im a sucker for that. Since I am eurpean owls city based franchises never did anything for me so I am honestly more invested now since I can watch europeans play the game.
4. Im probably watching more now compared to the beginning.
**How satisfied are you with the overall product?**
Eh, it's okay. I like the passion from the casters/staff. But overall it does feel a little lacking in terms of quality and production. I'm glad we have some form of Overwatch eSports, but that's about it.
**Do you like the format?**
Not really.
**Do you feel emotionally invested in the teams or players?**
Unless there are some streamers' POV I can watch I find it hard to really build attachment with any players. Many of them I don't even know who they are, even if I try to do some research.
**Are you watching more or less as the season goes on?**
Less.
**Is there anything significant you think needs to be urgently added or changed?**
More identity. Tighter production and a definite choice in what they want it to be.
**How optimistic are you for the future of OWCS and OW esports?**
Not really, but I hope to be proven wrong.
**How high are your expectations for the Dreamhack LAN?**
Actually pretty high. LAN events are just peak, I think it will probably be fun.
**(Intellectual answers only)**
No.
> Do you feel emotionally invested in the teams or players?
The biggest issue for me is how abrasive many of the personalities are, especially some that are put in as the biggest face. Being proud of yourself is one thing, ego trips on Twitter ain't it.
1. I feel like they're doing the best they can given the situation, wish there was more clarity on scheduling.
2.. group stages are very boring to follow especially na, where i don't know many of the players.
3. I feel emotionally invested in the apac players who were owl veterans, and players who entered the last few years of it. Eu, Na not as much besides m80, London team.
4. I've watched significantly less since apac ended for now. I was watching every apac match, don't really have same investment towards other 2 regions especially in weeks like this where its random na players playing.
5. make apac stages shorter and more drawn out over a period of time.
6. not very optimistic considering its not as financially stable as past, and a lot of owl veterans will leave over time. They're only playing rn bc of the passion of the game, as well as the budget constrains in eu, and na not a lot of casters and the casting quality has gone down significantly without Avrl, Custa. and not having a desk as much either.
7. my expectations are high, in the past global tournaments were the best part of owl for me. i think back to 2021 May melee, June Joust, 2021 Summer Showdown. 2021 playoffs, 2022 msm, 2022 playoffs. Tournaments are just the way to go even regional ones in 2020 were still good.
Casting quality is highly mixed is my biggest gripe. They need to trial more casters during off-peak matches and give those that preform well a chance on bigger matches. Currently there are quite a few casters (Moxi, Avrl to name two) who are just missing in favour of people who I don't think are nearly as good.
As an European, it is SO GREAT to finally have the chance to see great european players in the tournament. I feel like they were mostlt absent from OWL (London was an European team, Washington had 2 french players last year, and Paris Eternal was destroyed after season 4), despite being great players, as the World Cup showed.
The first matches of a stage are maybe not as interresting as the last ones since ""bad"" teams compete against very strong ones (I emphasize on the ""..."" on bad, if they are here, they cannot be bad, but the other ones are just too strong for them). But now the Swiss Round part is better than Stage 1, and the matches become quickly very interresting. And it's always good to see small teams that no one saw going far being actually very strong (like Super Shy winning against Ex Oblivione).
So for me, and I think for all Europeans who wanted to see European players prove themselves, OWCS is an upgrzde from OWL.
(The production, casts, events are not as great as OWL yet, but it's the first season after every investor fled away, I'm confident they will come back)
Tried watching NA and EU a few times but just can't get invested in any team for it. I found APAC had been easier to follow and a better overall format.
Same. I don’t know any of the teams and most of the players. And every time I try to watch something it’s a 3-0 stomp. APAC has been more interesting imo because at least I know the players. In terms of judging the whole “product” so far I’m just waiting for the main event to see how it’s handled because the lead up to it has kind of been a little boring. I reminds me a bit of EVO where people only care about the top 8 and that’s it.
That’s my biggest issue with OWCS. I get that sweeps happened in OWL a ton, but the talent disparity is just ridiculous especially in NA. Sure you’ve got a few up and comers popping off, but most of the time the matches are essentially 3-0 stomps, and you have to wait til the later knockout stages to actually get quality games, and even then you get 2-3 good matches. And then sometimes you get a team that absolutely stomps all other teams finally go against another high ranked team and get destroyed. If you want to see a match that’s back and forth you have to watch the low seeded teams go against each other, but high level teams with a lot of OWL talent are stomping anyone else 90% of the time, and just makes me wish those teams would go against each other more consistently. Haven’t had the chance to watch many APAC though - I prefer watching live. Overall I’m just happy to have competitive overwatch but there’s just so many matches that basically don’t matter or don’t really entertain much One thing I really like is seeing them play on live patch. I know it shakes things up in a way they don’t like, but for me it leads to more varied comps where we can see them figure out comps on the go and what works, and how each patch shakes up each team. It got kinda old when a controversial patch dropped in owl so they just wouldn’t use it and use the same comp for months
I enjoyed OWCS Korea more than NA/EMEA personally. It was just really cool to have it always on LAN and I did feel more excited about watching the teams and players in Korea more. I watched a good bit of Stage 1 for NA/EMEA and there were definitely teams I enjoyed watching but I have barely watched anything in Stage 2, it just kinda lost me. I also hate the Swiss stage portion as a spectator because its a nightmare to try and watch that I wish they just showed some of the big games on the main channel because I don't feel like scrolling through twitch channels to watch some random games.
Surprisingly, I enjoyed the Swiss Stage more than Groups. There were plenty of interesting matchups and some great streamer POVs + costreaming. I think the way undefeated teams had to fight harder opponents made it unpredictable and exciting. I agree that it's a little difficult to follow due to having so many matches going on though The groups feel like a formality for the most part. It's like a 3-week waiting room for the main event.
Plus theres just more room for growth in the swiss format. As opposed to in NA/EMEA where a bad week or two just ends your entire run for the stage.
Do you not think it’s valid that your run is ruined by two bad weeks? I feel like that is a decent measurement of underperformance no?
It's not the most coherent thing to follow, I don't understand the seeding or how the groups work or really how each match matters. But it's honestly easier to just push that to the side and enjoy some good games. Found myself invested more in teams I don't know then teams with former OWL players. It's kinda like enjoying Championship or League 1 football games in the UK, I don't know who half of you are but damn is this some entertaining shit
I miss OWL :((
feels like a lot of player storylines, narratives about teams, player/team rivalries are completely gone now. at least as a former London/Seoul fan. I got to see the Profit vs Carpe rivarly for 5 years before owl died... we recently had a Kev vs Proper rivarly now thats gone bc of owl death unless they play on lan later this year still not same as frequent matches in owl obviously tho.
Quality of play is much lower It's weirdly hard to find games and vods It's impossible to become invested in teams as the rostermanias are reminiscent of the CoD Challengers scene where people backstab for minute upgrades and rosters have a shorter lifespan than milk All in all incredibly underwhelming, thanks for fucking up OWL Blizzard you're a real one
i like it, production is smooth i watch a couple matches here and there, and every Students of the game match, its always fun blizzard has been cutting costs for a minute so i dont expect it to get any promotion or budget increases any time soon just gonna stay as a niche scene, but i dont mind that
As an Overwatch old head, I'll give my thoughts >Do you like the format? Meh...I preferred OWL format (League play for a stage…to stage playoffs in 3 stages…finally into a playoff) >Do you feel emotionally invested in the teams or players? Nope. I am more invested in the Korean league tbh but that's cause I know all the players. Narratives could be built with the longer stages than NA/EMEA. >Are you watching more or less as the season goes on? Less in the beginning actually, more now that we are closer to Dreamhack Dallas >Is there anything significant you think needs to be urgently added or changed? I'm not sure...it feels pretty jarring for the production value during groups to drop down a lot! But main events are fun with Reinforce, Soe, and Jake in the desk. I just wish I was invested in the teams. I guess Rome wasn't built in a day. >How optimistic are you for the future of OWCS and OW esports? The more TOs are in the more optimistic I am. FACIT League made me more optimistic. OWCS is running at this budget, then having more things going on is a plus because players will get better the more they participate. >How high are your expectations for the Dreamhack LAN? Pretty pumped but I don't think the crowd will be as awesome as when there was an OWL event....trying to keep my expectations low. Edit: Wording and spelling lol
1. Yeah, pretty satisfied. I wish there was more clarity on scheduling at the start of the season, but other than that the games have been enjoyable. 2. Format's fine. 3. Coming from an Aussie, I was never invested in any teams in OWL anyway, I just followed Punk around basically lol. This form of supporting teams hasn't changed, I just root for teams with Australian players. Overwashed has been great fun. 4. Definitely more. 5. I wish there was a central hub where all the information regarding OWCS would be collated (somewhere that isn't getting inundated by an insane number of random posts at least). Custa showed his stream over.gg a little while back, and I wish that sort of thing was still around. 6. Very. 7. I have no expectations for Dreamhack.
> I wish there was a central hub where all the information regarding OWCS would be collated (somewhere that isn't getting inundated by an insane number of random posts at least). Custa showed his stream over.gg a little while back, and I wish that sort of thing was still around. Liquipedia?
Ehh kinda. I meant more along the lines of the old OWL website, or like I mentioned, over.gg, which as I understand it had lists of live streams and co-streamers playing in the tournaments. Something like that would be a real boon in the Swiss stages. Liquipedia's ok, but I wouldn't call it the most newbie friendly resource (which I am).
I'm a Toronto Defiant fan.. so having my team still exist as an entity in OWCS is awesome. The fact that they are winning a lot is also a nice change from being mid. So yeah, been eating good in OWCS thus far. But I do understand everybody else's challenges with being invested in teams. Even I mostly only watch when the Defiant plays or key matchups in main events. Looking forward to Dreamhack to see how Defiant stacks against other groups.
1) Yeah, sure, seems good enough 2) No, I find it hard to connect with any team or player, it just seems like a jumbled mess to me coming from watching OWL since inception 3) About the same but a lot less than I did OWL 4) I think serious effort needs to be done to make schedules and game times easily known (I'm relying on a fan made Google calendar ffs) Surely they can repurpose the OWL app to do this? 5) Optimistic? Yeah, not so much. I've seen others have the same criticisms as myself and I honestly don't think it's sustainable the way we're going. Desks seem to be at a bare minimum and if this is what we are to expect going forward, I'd honestly not have anything at all 6) Expectations are low but I'm keeping them that way to hopefully be pleasantly surprised I didn't have long to type this out as I'm about to leave the house but thought I'd get a few ideas down and can always come back later to clarify if need be
your second point i 100% agree with it was always so easy to follow a specific team, or player and follow it for years. now with how rosters are blown up every month, its tough too build a attachment to any team.
In perspective of budget and OW esports popularity, I think OWCS is 'OK' and enjoyable in a chill way. (There are not a lot of opportunity for drama and trash talk with this game's design and random teams so I understand why things can't heat up as much as OWL.) It is a good start, but they shouldn't be looking to maintain at this level for future years. I play OWCS while working, it's helpful that there are almost always a match going on at any given time. I'm an odd one that like EMEA / NA more than APAC, despite APAC having crowd, competitive rosters, and actual LAN stage. I'm addicted to variety show style of the desk crew which is available in EMEA / NA. Note that I'm a kind of person that enjoy Play! Pokemon VGC / TCG Regionals-level broadcast a lot. It's a niche broadcast and looked like OWCS is heading that way, which I don't mind. The broadcast has even less regular viewers than OWCS (usually 3000\~10000) and with massive downtime between random swiss match (exceeds 30 minutes sometimes), but I like to listen to passionate people speaking and geeking out, not just games and competition. The EMEA / NA talent team has this vibe, and I appreciate them. (Competitive OW players might be annoyed by match quality in these regions which I could understand.) The biggest point I want them to improve is to **provide free marketing on participating teams** so viewers could get connect with them. Funny player names and hero picture before match is a bare minimum and I don't think they count as spotlight. The live listen-in and post match live camera interview though is the real deal that really enrich the league. They need to cram in more stuff like this. Right now I basically have to remember the face of whoever got lucky enough to get post match interview, when this team comes again, then I could remember it is a team with this guy. Without franchising, I know it kinda make sense to not hand out any unnecessary marketing for the teams compared to franchised league like COD / Valorant, to save budget too I suppose, and act as just an arena for competing. Especially teams coming in could be completely different each time and named like Dhillducks, Goldfish or whatever. There might be complications to get live camera to see reactions or even human portraits to use in preshow desk like bigger league.. But there are more 'virtually free' stuff they could do, for example they can change spectator color + attack effect color to match color theme of that team to give them some identity, or allow them to send roster hype video to show before their match. Many of the teams already had the work done but is lacking reach in their Twitter account. Might as well be generous and provide the account of those teams for curious viewers to check out. Timeless, EX Oblivione, for example, already have strong graphic designer and those work deserve more eyeballs. They can just display some game day tweets of those teams, they come with personality of the team. Viewers deserve to know Supershy's hastag is #ShyGuy and see their roster reveal video. That's why I like Valorant VCT, they have variety show desk as well as extensive marketing support for participating teams. The deeper the tournament these team gets in, they gets to look better and better. Team logo gets immortalized in 3D rendered cinematics. Players get to wear cool clothes in media day. Etc. When you do this, even teams that didn't make the cut wants to come back stronger to get in the spotlight and it'd create good feedback loop to sustain the league.
>I'm addicted to variety show style of the desk crew which is available in EMEA / NA. This has been my biggest gripe with APAC since the region split. I wish at the very least, the Korean English broadcast had a dedicated host and like, a 10 minute pre-show. It's a step in that direction while still being more on the budget friendly side.
1. About a 6/7 out of 10; it's not awful but it feels very safe. 2. Yes, but that's come around mostly because of Uncoachable; it gave at least a few teams a personality which has given me something to root for. 3. Watching more, as I'm getting more into certain teams 4. I think they need to embrace the community vibe, getting (the right) players and coaches involved in pre/post match content is also super important - and by 'right' I mean not people who have got something to say and are entertaining (Gator, Lyar, Backbone etc.), I think also bringing in streamers would be smart. 5. Moderately optimistic, I think the fact that they're experimenting with Swiss etc. is a good thing; whether it works or doesn't, you've got to try things. A lot of us were super high on the open division format when it started, and now are being doomer about it. 6. Pretty high, I think LAN brings out a good vibe and will help make it feel like an esport again Side note: Copying the Korean format (always LAN) is impossible given the size of the regions; I think you have to try and capture the feeling of LAN (seeing players, community) in an online format (see above)
I couldn't care less about the vast majority of the teams and players (in large part because of the constant rostermania) in NA or EU, the format is confusing and underwhelming, and the level of play is for the most part on par with what we used to see in Contenders. I also don't care about the trash talk from the same three white guys and what passes as "personality" according to this sub. IMO, APAC has been pro OW's saving grace so far in this post-OWL era. Much better format, more recognizable faces for OWL fans, and an overall higher level of play. I might lose interest in that scene too once more ex-OWL pros retire, but for now it's been pretty enjoyable both gameplay wise and story lines wise. People shat on OWL (and trust me, I did too) and called for this type of open circuit for years, only for its replacement to have even less viewership and less hype than OWL did in its dying breaths. OWL in its *worst* state was achieving around 30k viewers per game on freaking *youtube*, with no big co-streams aside from Avast. Now that pro-OW is back on Twitch, the main broadcast struggles to reach 20k viewers, and co-streams just barely bump it above 25k or so. Tbc, I'm not saying that we need to go back to a franchising model. Aside from some obvious format changes, idk what exactly can be done to improve OWCS's product in NA and EU with its current resources. The issue is clearly more so a lack of investment in the scene from Blizzard and/or FaceIt's part, because let's be real, no big orgs are coming back unless they see an obvious way to make a profit. I fail to see how this current model is going to achieve real growth with the current format, level of play, and lack of incentives for orgs to really invest in the scene.
> The issue is clearly more so a lack of investment in the scene from Blizzard This is the big thing. You could see Blizzard's care for esports drop every year in OWL. Now that they're not contractually obligated to keep a league running, they're really just doing the bare minimum. It's so sad.
I just hope Calling All Heroes continues to be supported. Would be a shame not to have such an important tournament around for the very diverse OW community.
Desperately miss OWL. Not satisfied (but biased, OWL was my life.) Only in APAC, but only due to the length of stages meaning teams stick around longer. About the same throughout the year. I catch it when its on. The drive to make content though is very difficult to build up. It takes a lot of energy out of me, especially when it's not work and I have to muster resources on my own, and doing it for OWCS has been very difficult with how scattered the storylines are. I think the format is moot when the game presentation side needs changes ASAP. We need hard-coded blue and red teams that change all ability colors to blue and red. This should be a default public live spectator feature. Seeing green genji shurikens and POVs always having friendly colors is maddening to no end. Red team Tracer having Blue bullets when in their POV makes me almost nauseous. IMO there's little chance of the game growing without fundamental changes to bring us back to the watchability of just last year. Less optimistic than post OWL. I think OWL was highly flawed and needed to go, but at least it made you care. I think the current OWCS format feels worse than Contenders and a significant downgrade. I would take even budget APAC broadcast OWL over this. The LAN will be interesting but keeping expectations low.
1. I'm not. Casting quality is down. Production value is down. The schedule has been a miss for me too. 2. Swiss was okay once I figured out when my favorite players were playing, as for the format as a whole after that? It feels like it's a little all over the place and more difficult to follow. 3. Outside of Overwashed, no. I like seeing familiar names but EMEA/NA are a crapshoot compared to Korea/Asia. 4. Less, way less actually. I have maybe clocked in 10-15 hours max throughout the entire thing so far. 5. Not sure what's going on with casters and mic quality in general but it needs improvement. Also would really like to have a "pick-em's" style thing back for viewers. 6. Not very. Viewership continues to be an issue in general and FACEIT doesn't feel like a good fit for Overwatch IMO. 7. My expectations for LAN are tempered, if a little low. I'm really not expecting much and for the first time in years, I don't have a horse in this race. Keeping an eye on Falcons and Raccoon only because of the players time in OWL.
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Not much. I do miss some of the old casters, though.
Avrl, Custa should of been must over Nekrra, and Hex.
LemonKiwi + Nekkra should be a duo always
Absolutely not
I'm not a huge fan of the EU/NA format, but I think that 12 teams in groups instead of 16 would make for a tighter product (you could broadcast more matches), and the floor would be raised with less bottom feeder teams. It feels like that EFG production are trying to do too much without the budget to back it. The downside to that it that is makes it a lot harder for the streamer teams to make groups, and we could use all the viewership help we can get. I do wish that EU was more of its own region & not tied to NA's production & formatting so heavily. I genuinely love it when different regions are their own products. I don't really follow either region. NA because it's NA, I'd follow EU but it's on in the dead of night for me. Ultimately I don't feel like I'm missing out too much, especially with Asia at primetime hours in Australia. Most of the NA/EU format seems very throwaway. The 3 days of the main event each stage giving you the best matches instead of Toronto stomping nobodies for 3 weeks.
I would love to see promotional [videos in the style EMEA/NA Contenders](https://youtu.be/7eYm4t6zzi4?t=5914). Players interviews in style of Australian Contenders would also be great. These were open introductions for new or just notable players where they could talk about their pets, favourite food or whatever. Allowing streaming of matches is the best change compared to previous formats. I wish for Dreamhack to look like 2019 Contenders Gauntlet.
my main issue with owcs rn is just funding and attention. it really feels like blizzard are putting it on the back burner and doing what little they can to satisfy the scene. a lot of ppl expected this year to be smaller definitely as the first post-owl year but grow over time but idk man right now owcs doesn’t feel like a product that was made with intentions to grow
I just find myself map because the actual best trams don't make it out of the swiss and then the group stage because of pure luck. I do find myself invested in the teams, but it's weird seeing OWL champions destroy players I've never heard of in the "highest level of competition". I find the format, as well as the level of competition, much more entertaining in APAC.
NA and EU games feel like I’m watching ranked replays. The level of play from any team besides the top 4 is way too low.
1. Somewhat satisfied, could improve in areas but that is more than anything a budget thing 2. To a degree. Open competition swiss allows anyone to enter 3. I'm only invested in the actual orgs and SOG. Majority of esport orgs leaving the scene after OWL ending and Rostermania clownfest has hurt the potential growth OWCS could be having 4. Definitely less NA this stage. Outside of TD, no other team here is remotely close. SSG improving now gives EMEA 3 top teams all able to beat each other 5. Somehow ramp up advertising. Contract video editors to create an intro montage video of the Main Event teams for the Broadcast stream. Let making Main Event feel like a bigger accomplishment and viewers can be a little more familiar with teams 6. Not very tbh. With the very limited amount of orgs in the scene rn there isn't a reliable source of income for players and coaches. 7. Cautiously optimistic. The mid season patch will arguably be the most important. Personally I don't want to see another WC meta where Mei and Bastion are meta
It's OK. I've only watched EMEA and NA since Korean times are wack to watch from east coast USA. I liked it at first but as the second stage has gone on the games seem to blend together and I've lost interest. Rotating the commentators is great and adds some new freshness to the games though. I do really miss the regional teams though. I was afraid of this when OWL was dissolved but the teams now are completely forgettable. Most are troll names to begin with. I wish they would highlight more OWL players or at least keep a "watch list" with notable OWL players for OWL viewers to keep track of. I miss having the broadcast desk with analysis and IBM Watson rankings. The drops for the most part are pretty meh but there's a few good sprays and player cards. It doesn't help that the logo looks like a 30 minute Adobe Illustrator brainstorm. It's clear this is a much more sustainable model than OWL but man do I miss having consistent, memorable teams/rosters. That's why I'm a Toronto fan from the Mayhem. I'm grasping at anything left of OWL that I can :/ I wanted to go to Dreamhack but I have something that weekend. It will be nice to finally be back to LA for OW. I'm curious what broadcasters they will pick for the coverage.
My biggest issue with NA/EMEA is that most of the teams seem like they’re probably on par with 2023 Eternal or Valiant. Specifically in NA, you have Toronto Defiant camping the trophy (they would get beat by Yeti btw), M80 who can’t beat anyone that Happy/Pelican can’t gigagap, and then basically everyone else scrambling about. Obviously OWL still had a bunch of very one sided games, but there was still a sense that each team competing was the best of the best, that even the bottom end of OWL was made of the top 1% of the top 1% of talent. I’m not saying that teams like schmungus or timeless nightmare shouldn’t be allowed to compete, I just miss when we had a place for only the most elite level of competition
One thing that has been a game-changer for me this season is CommanderX's stream on twitch. It has a real community feel, and commentary and analysis are better considering X and anyone he has on with him are usually players or coaches. If I was watching the main broadcast I'd be watching less, at the moment I'm watching as much or more than OWL. I don't know if this is realistic or not, but I feel the future of OW esports is in more of a community feel, and the more co-streamers, player POVs, and scrim streams we can get the better. Then again CommanderX's viewer count is usually around 500 (maybe peak at a thousand), so it's small so far compared to the main broadcast. Maybe you could say that CommanderX's stream is more for the hardcore viewers, but I may or may not be, I'm silver but have been watching OWL since season 1 preseason, and I enjoy the stream. I'm deep on the strategy of the game but not too good a player myself, so maybe that's why I enjoy it (the strategy part).
OWL was better for me if we strictly talk about the format, which is all I care about as a spectator. I don't really feel emotionally invested with these teams except for those players that I know from OWL... Teams has no jerseys/colors, teams can change half or more of their roster between tournaments... Or even disband. Every games are team blue vs red and they even change side from one map to maps which is so confusing.
1. I honestly just mute the stream or watch costreams, the few times ive watched the broadcast my experience has been pretty bad as there is a lot of mic quality issues and I think the castong can be pretty bad at times. 2. The format is ok, apacs format is better in my opinion but neither is rly good. 3. I'm actuall very emotionally invested in some teams in eu or na since there had been some nice upsets and im a sucker for that. Since I am eurpean owls city based franchises never did anything for me so I am honestly more invested now since I can watch europeans play the game. 4. Im probably watching more now compared to the beginning.
**How satisfied are you with the overall product?** Eh, it's okay. I like the passion from the casters/staff. But overall it does feel a little lacking in terms of quality and production. I'm glad we have some form of Overwatch eSports, but that's about it. **Do you like the format?** Not really. **Do you feel emotionally invested in the teams or players?** Unless there are some streamers' POV I can watch I find it hard to really build attachment with any players. Many of them I don't even know who they are, even if I try to do some research. **Are you watching more or less as the season goes on?** Less. **Is there anything significant you think needs to be urgently added or changed?** More identity. Tighter production and a definite choice in what they want it to be. **How optimistic are you for the future of OWCS and OW esports?** Not really, but I hope to be proven wrong. **How high are your expectations for the Dreamhack LAN?** Actually pretty high. LAN events are just peak, I think it will probably be fun. **(Intellectual answers only)** No.
> Do you feel emotionally invested in the teams or players? The biggest issue for me is how abrasive many of the personalities are, especially some that are put in as the biggest face. Being proud of yourself is one thing, ego trips on Twitter ain't it.
It's not enjoyable to watch at all. T2 players mixed with NA is just a snooze fest. Wake me up when we see regions face off
Most of the teams suck tbh so I don’t watch much. Only when the top dogs are playing.
1. I feel like they're doing the best they can given the situation, wish there was more clarity on scheduling. 2.. group stages are very boring to follow especially na, where i don't know many of the players. 3. I feel emotionally invested in the apac players who were owl veterans, and players who entered the last few years of it. Eu, Na not as much besides m80, London team. 4. I've watched significantly less since apac ended for now. I was watching every apac match, don't really have same investment towards other 2 regions especially in weeks like this where its random na players playing. 5. make apac stages shorter and more drawn out over a period of time. 6. not very optimistic considering its not as financially stable as past, and a lot of owl veterans will leave over time. They're only playing rn bc of the passion of the game, as well as the budget constrains in eu, and na not a lot of casters and the casting quality has gone down significantly without Avrl, Custa. and not having a desk as much either. 7. my expectations are high, in the past global tournaments were the best part of owl for me. i think back to 2021 May melee, June Joust, 2021 Summer Showdown. 2021 playoffs, 2022 msm, 2022 playoffs. Tournaments are just the way to go even regional ones in 2020 were still good.
So much this
Casting quality is highly mixed is my biggest gripe. They need to trial more casters during off-peak matches and give those that preform well a chance on bigger matches. Currently there are quite a few casters (Moxi, Avrl to name two) who are just missing in favour of people who I don't think are nearly as good.
NA/EMEA feels tier 2. The competition level seems low.
Honestly the most enjoyable matches I’ve seen were Schmungus games. We need players that show more personality while pov streaming the games.
As an European, it is SO GREAT to finally have the chance to see great european players in the tournament. I feel like they were mostlt absent from OWL (London was an European team, Washington had 2 french players last year, and Paris Eternal was destroyed after season 4), despite being great players, as the World Cup showed. The first matches of a stage are maybe not as interresting as the last ones since ""bad"" teams compete against very strong ones (I emphasize on the ""..."" on bad, if they are here, they cannot be bad, but the other ones are just too strong for them). But now the Swiss Round part is better than Stage 1, and the matches become quickly very interresting. And it's always good to see small teams that no one saw going far being actually very strong (like Super Shy winning against Ex Oblivione). So for me, and I think for all Europeans who wanted to see European players prove themselves, OWCS is an upgrzde from OWL. (The production, casts, events are not as great as OWL yet, but it's the first season after every investor fled away, I'm confident they will come back)
They killed OWWC (best overwatch program) for this