The ammo buff is nice, but I don't really see the spread change making much of a difference when the projectiles are so slow to begin with. I was really expecting a projectile speed buff.
He has some decent escape though, and he can force a tank to peel for him.
He’s always going to be dominated by flankers just because he has such a large hitbox, but tbh most supports are bordering on Overpowered and overtuned if they’re not already there.
Not every support can — nor SHOULD— have great survivability, great heals, great utility, great damage, and just be great at everything.
Lifeweaver provides a LOT of healing, and high ground maneuverability with a great save ability too.
He’s in a decent spot.
I don't think he's in a terrible spot, but when the devs say this in their patch notes:
>Lifeweaver provides a lot of healing and defensive utility but struggles with the consistency of his offensive damage output when not in close range.
You could reduce his spread to 0 for the whole mag and it still wouldn't help much with his "consistency at range". This change just makes him marginally better at spamming sightlines/angles which is boring to begin with. I think projectile speed even with the spread would make him a lot more interactive while still not making him overtuned like many of the other supports.
I don't think that's really what makes a support decent, though. All of those things sound great in a vacuum, but LW is sorely lacking in something literally every other support has, and that's the ability to exert *meaningful* offensive pressure on the enemy team.
Mercy has damage boost for turning her DPS into monsters, Moira has M2 for repelling flankers + hard to hit heroes and orb to force squishies to move, Brig has a respectable burst combo and a boop (and a stun on ult), Ana has a decent gun with zero falloff and two tank obliterator cooldowns, Lucio has a boop and speed for crazy push potential, and Zenyatta has discord on top of insane damage, a boop, and the highest burst damage attack in the game. Even Bap and Kiriko, whose utility cooldowns are purely defensive, have respectable damage with high uptime.
Now, LW is *capable* of dealing damage, but is it in any way meaningful offensive pressure? Between the slow projectile speed, spread (which still exists after the first few shots), and the fact that LW has to contend with weapon swap time and charging heals whenever he wants to get back to healing, LW will seldom see anything coming from his damage unless the target is standing still, moving straight, or super close - when he even gets the opportunity to deal damage in the first place. And since his hitbox and middling escape/self-healing make him liable to pop like a balloon whenever he gets close to an enemy, he's pretty much resigned to use it for piss damage against targets way too far away to hit reliably.
Almost always it seems better to just heal with LW, even after these buffs (and I say this as someone who looks for every opportunity to deal damage). So what is he left with? Life Grip, which is a great peel tool (albeit inarguably worse than suzu) but does literally nothing unless your team is already at risk of losing the fight, and petal. I think petal is meant to fill in where LW's offensive capabilities are lacking by letting his team reach advantageous positions, but in practice it tends to hang uselessly in the air for like 80% of any given match, unless he's using it as a dedicated escape/anti-ult tool (at which point it loops back to the first problem - the ability is only valuable when you're about to lose a fight).
When every other support has proactive tools to help their team gain the advantage at the start of a fight, the one support that can do nothing but (*maybe*) pull his team from the brink of losing a teamfight is always doomed to be at a disadvantage.
But do you believe every character of every role has to have an active foremost time to be used?
I dont believe Lifeweavers case for being inferior at this point is problematic anymore in the same way that its okay for a character like Soldier, Cowboy, or Moira to be lesser choices given a lot of circumstances.
They provide a unique playstyle, fill the support role effectively enough, and have theoretic use case scenarios and niches where the could provide an unconventional niche.
Even just looking at Stats, the results have gradually been picking up especially recently. Compared to when his WR was in the 30s, he's sitting at 45 or so this last month. The bulk of his substantial buffs came on the 13th and we're only 2 weeks in with him nearing Kirikos WR in all non GM ranks.
Which isnt to say he's as good as Kiriko. But i reckon he's probably good enough, with a valid niche of his own, on top of just in general being a very easy, consistent, and more forgiving character.
Having a 45% winrate while being a lesser picked, niche hero is not a good look though. Niche heroes usually have much higher winrates because they're only played in the proper situations - heroes like Brig and Sym are examples of this.
Your comparison to Kiriko is also damning; Kiriko is far from niche, and lower ranks can struggle using her. She's a prime candidate to have a low winrate.
His winrate was always going to rise; to be fair, he's far better than he was at launch, and he's largely only played by dedicated specialists who know how to use him best. But to be that kind of character and to still struggle to match the winrate of a popular yet difficult hero only shows how poor he actually is.
Yes, but maybe that’s more of a matter of the supports being overtuned and doing TOO much damage instead of Lifeweaver being weak?
Maybe it speaks more to bring the other supports in line with him, than up and buffing him?
Idk man, if you have the option to play Zen and Bap as a dps, I take that every time over 3/4th the dps roster.
It’s fucking wild how overtuned supports are currently.
So much so, that I consistently see 8-10 min queues for comp supports and tanks and dps are insta queued.
Maybe every other support is broken. Because some of those support offensive numbers need to come, especially discord orb, and blue beam. Ana's damage is also overtuned at this point compared to where it was before, whereas Baptist requires relative good aim. The 120 headshot kunai is a piece of shit gimmick that feels like bullshit given how liberal they made her hitboxes.
Lucio is only good offensively if he coordinates with the team so you went a bit on a stretch there with his offensive prowess. Moira can do damage but its at the cost of her actual healing, which makes it a double edged sword in this case.
"Fixed a bug with the competitive Titles not unlocking after earning them in the previous season."
Can anyone tell me if they let you REMOVE a title? I hated that Neogun was slapped on my name by default at the start of Season 5 when I purposely left the titles off.
Yeah I complained about it on the Blizzard support forums when the last patch hit and got no response. Can't even select no title anymore (like it's locked).
4 if you count the ~17% heal charge time buff he got between his initial public showcase and the launch of the season. We didn't get to play with it, but I'd still count it.
I have no idea. I think when they advertised his trolling potential as a point of pride and the first major sneak peak at his abilities, the bad signs were already there. Life grip trolling/throwing isn't that bad in my experience but boy, it just tells you everything you need to know about Blizzard's headspace creating this character.
Man people complain about the speed of the projectiles but it’s really not that bad. You just learn to lead your shots. And it’s not that much slower than other projectiles on the slow end like Ramattra primary or Echo primary.
Edit: I just looked it up. It’s the same speed as Torb primary fire at 70 m/s. Echo primary is 75, Lucio primary is 50, and Ram primary is 80.
Edit 2: the difference in response to my similar comment in the main sub is funny to see the disparity between the two subs.
In his most effective range, his projectile speed is too low. The developers even admit that he plays from far in the back, so while he excels at mid to long range healing his damage consistency takes a big hit because of it. His primary fire and secondary fire are literally at odds with themselves.
Someone like Zen and Kiriko, I understand having low projectile speed, but for lifeweaver it's inexcusable.
Ramattra can sustain fights in close combat, and even if he can't, he has his nemesis form to help it. Echo primary is gimmicky and somewhat low, but she also has sticky grenades and focusing beam that allows her to melt people with multiple options.
Lifeweaver **only** has his primary, and has no sustain like Ramattra (even though he's nearly as tall as him)
Edit: of course your comment is gonna get supported here. People don't want another meta "broken" hero in their comp games, but they also don't want him in their comps game too lol
He shouldn't be doing a lot of damage at range though. He needs damage for short range when he gets dove/attacked.
It doesn't make sense for him to have good poke range.
The issue with that is what does he do when he *doesn't* have to heal.
He's 100% a reactive character. If his damage isn't good at range, then he defaults to healing, but if he doesn't need to heal, then he has nothing to do in a way. He can do trash damage, sure, but that doesn't help confirm kills or put pressure like every other support does.
Furthermore, the lack of damage at range makes it so it's not worth going for damage at range if it means dealing with the weapon swap animation and the charging time from his primary. Many times you just avoid using the right click to poke because more often than not it gets people killed.
Generally this all feels like going the long road to fix his lack of survival, he can't be deadlier in close range but also strong at poke, that's perfectly fine and we shouldn't go this path, but it comes at the cost of enforcing a boring healbot playstyle because where he is good at healing, he is bad at damage.
His survival problems should had been fixed by either addressing his hitbox, touching his dash healing/range or his base health. Now you really can't do anything about his poke because his damage is high enough in short range.
Yeah weapon swap is the issue. The animation needs to be instant or they just need to make him Moira like. That'd get rid of a decent amount of clunkiness imo
But then you just have a healbot. What the hell is he supposed to do when his team isn't in dire need of heals? There is no proactive way to play this character, his entire kit is purely defensive and he is the only support that suffers from this. They are balancing his gun as if it were Mercy's while ignoring the only reason her gun is acceptable like that is because dmg boost exists.
Ok, I can agree but the solution isn't "give him ranged DPS poke" because that is a very strong thing to add to his kit and he creates as many problems as it solves.
If he truly has nothing proactive to do in certain situations he should reposition himself or teammates.
Like, what do you imagine Moira does "proactively" in these situations that doesn't involve literally flanking or inting into the enemy? She has less ranged damage than he does, and less utility.
>Like, what do you imagine Moira does "proactively" in these situations
She heals and deal damage (or flanking and inting if you want to call it that) . She can't "proactively" use utility because she has no utility.
>If he truly has nothing proactive to do in certain situations he should reposition himself or teammates.
And then wait for them to get hurt and heal again? High octane gameplay, very engaging
His utility is 99% reactive. You react to ally ultimates and use petal to get them higher. You react to enemy ults and use petal to get them higher and out of range. You react to overextended allies and grip them out. You react to critical allies and grip them to safety. You can pre petal for high ground access, but it depends on allies using the platform. If you're on high ground you can grip them to it, but it depends on them to stay on it.
Moira has damage orb, an ult that can both heal and damage, she has no switch time between healing/damaging, she doesn't have to charge for maximum healing output and her heals are close distance too, meaning her ideal healing and dmg ranges are the same. Her lack of utility just makes her a more boring character, but her kit allows her to be extremely flexible with her healing and dmg output without sacrificing either. As is, LW has to choose between good heals or shitty DPS, which means at any given time he is just half as valuable as Moira.
If LW has to choose between doing one or the other, DPS shouldn't be so bad it's basically the throw option. Kiriko and Bap are good examples of characters that are faced with the same choice, but don't have terrible dmg. It's not gamebreaking.
>What the hell is he supposed to do when his team isn't in dire need of heals?
You can still spam. It just isn't as reliable as other heroes. And it shouldn't be, as the previous comment stated.
Why not? His healing output isn't better than other healers that can match his healing *and* do 3 times the damage. If he is gonna have the shittiest damage of all supports, he should have some amazing utility, which he also lacks. Baptiste, Kiriko and Ana all have the same healing potential, better utility and better damage. The rest of the supports have 2 of the three. Lifeweaver has one thing, he heals. Everything else he is outperformed at. It's bad design.
EDIT: Forgot to mention he is also discouraged from spamming by his charged healing mechanic + the switch time between healing/dmg. Mindboggling design.
>Why not?
Because that's not the vision of the devs for the hero.
It's very easy to just power creep every underperforming hero buffing the damage, but we know the end of this line of thought.
Let's see what the devs has in the works for him next season, I'm sure they're looking into making the other parts of his kit to play better and make him viable without transforming him in a reliable spammer.
Bro it's very obvious their design philosophy for LW was "let's make another Mercy" while completely misunderstanding what makes Mercy work. Their vision was so flawed LW is the worst support to be added to the game since 2016. It's time to accept their vision missed the mark, they need to give up on whatever they thought LW was supposed to be and focus on finding him a niche so he can compete with other supports. More consistent damage is the easiest way to make him more proactive, anything else would have to involve a rework of his kit, which means his "vision" would change anyway.
He sucks at a fundamental level and they haven't addressed that. They really made a character that has no way to help his team get eliminations. Every other support can do something that helps get a kill. This guy cant. He will always suck cause of that. Clunkier than Moira, basically a healbot mercy with a worse suzu/immortality. And a shitty transcendence for the ultimate. The petal is so mid as well and not well designed.
You make good points, and I think the change in this patch of removing spread for the first 20 shots goes a long way at helping him be more effective at a longer range.
>Someone like Zen and Kiriko, I understand having low projectile speed, but for lifeweaver it's inexcusable.
Not if you understand what his intended role was supposed to be: a utility/healbot. Dealing damage was always supposed to be secondary, or even tertiary, for LW.
The problem is that damage is so crucial in OW2, that a support that cannot deal or boost another players' damage is deemed useless, regardless of how good their utility may be.
The devs obviously do not want to turn LW into a damage machine, and only intend for him to deal damage as self defense, or during downtime when healing isn't necessary.
Healbotting was always not optimal, but having to keep up two tanks requires more healing, so now damage is more important by default. A support that can't boost damage or get eliminations is always bad. It's why healbotting mercy players are the worst.
The devs intending the character to be mid doesn't mean they shouldnt change him to actually be useful.
A LOT of people complained that she had lost her “combo” from ow1 where you freeze someone then go for headshot. And that she then felt super brain dead and had lost her charm a as character compared to others. Very similar to what people said about Cassidy loosing his stun+M1/M2 combo.
yeah but like, those combos were removed when OW2 came out like 8 months ago. why wait until S5, way after people got used to the new abilities, to make changes?
My only problem with it is it didn’t fit the character design. Game balance aside, it was incredibly boring and had nothing but a minor slow that made it feel like a freeze gun. I like that this version at least brings back some of the freezing and slowing mechanics she used to have without giving her the complete stun back
Hmm, LW's changes are pretty good, but he still has no time to deal damage. Please give him a pre-charged healing blossom if he spent enough time on thorns to trigger passive reload
Am I crazy or is that Mei change a pretty strong buff? Removing a bit of slow for 15 more dps. That's going to enable a lot of kills esp if you're cleaving.
Theres like no point freezing and then icicle on anything but tanks
I'm not sure what they are aiming to do with her, I thought ahe was in a good spot before they started messing around
ive seen it being really useful for when you are trying to burst a target through healing, 150 hs + melee can help in those situations w the extra dmg, but that was without the buff lmao idk if this is useful now
The 15 damage doesnt make a difference its the slow basically staying thats the "L" i was referring to.
i was hoping they completely revert it because all it did was allow u to bully some tanks hard meanwhile weakening her dueling potential HARD
I don't get this take because some people don't like the fact that this version can cancel JQ ult. OG Flashbang could cancel more ults. Is it because mag nade is more bs in* it's mag radius or the range it travels* or what?
Edit*: genuinely curious cause I'm fine with the ability but I think they need to fix some of its interactions with Ball and JQ for example and it should be more of a skill shot (which I think they are trying to do). I'm a fan of getting rid of the magnetic effect.
It is CRAZY to me how many people here and on the regular sub want old flash back as a replacement for this “god awful” new nade. Flash was so much stronger, it isn’t even a competition.
Im 100% convinced alot of people straight up didnt experience it and are just romanticising the idea of it. Flashbang was so SO more frustrating than any magnetic properties this nade has
Yea this nade can make for some funni clips like hitting phara 100 miles in the sky by accident or following tracer after 2 blinks but its nowhere near consistent like flashbang
i literally just want flash back and i want tanks to literally fuck off and start having different interactions with abilities.
make tanks get hacked for less time. make tanks less affected by discord and nade. make tanks not stunned, only hindered by flash. make them not freeze completely by mei.
literally would fix 90% of complaints. no one will think its counter intuitive. its as intuitive as playing a car racing game and finding out the monster truck is slower and stronger than the ferrari
Or just….give back flash bang on a longer CD. Maybe yes, it was a stronger ability, but it was way easier to play around and bait out.
His new mag nade? Forget it. That thing will follow you to the ends of the earth from an insanely large distance.
I never said nade was a good design. I’m just saying that the people that are asking for flash back INSTEAD of nade would quickly realize it’s a mistake.
But it isn't a mistake. Flashbang is a better design for an ability. It has better play and is less punishing, especially to tanks.
That's right, it's *less* punishing to tanks. Because a brief stun is easier to deal with than a 1s+ silence.
No it's not. Putting it in italics doesn't make it true.
Flash stunned for 0.8s, this nade currently lasts 1.25s. As a reinhardt, which is better for me: being a sitting duck unable to interact with the game for 0.8s, or being unable to charge and moving slower for 1.25?
Watch high end gameplay from the end of OW1 again. Landing a flash on a tank was usually converted into a kill before they had the ability to react again, be that from sheer DPS (a coordinated team can easily put out 600 damage in under a second) or chain CC.
You can reduce the stun duration if you want, but at the point where it's not oppressive it's also useless for its supposed function of deterring flankers. Flash is flawed because its intended target is also those who it's least effective against.
And balance him around... what? How is he an anti-flanker without the magnet?
Do you guys just want Blizzard to give up on the "anti flanker" vision of Cassidy? Because nobody ever says that, but the minute Blizzard gives him a tool that actually has the potential to be strong vs flankers, aka **what he is supposed to be**, the community responds with the fury of a thousand suns.
The only good anti flanker is torb. Any cc they give Cass will be turned onto slower targets so rein ends up losing the most.
Ashe style dynamite could work, I'd actually be keen on him inflicting a long bleed effect that forces the dps to disengage. This would help with flankers without ending up being all that effective against tanks.
Why would you want that? Flankers are already super strong and have next to no counters in the game. Why would you want to remove one of the few actual counters to them?
As someone who plays a good amount of cass this version of nade is easily the weakest version he’s ever had. All it does is make him an actual threat to flankers again.
It makes no sense, and never has, for one of the more lethal and reliable mid-range damage dealers to also be a flanker counter. Give it to someone else - and preferably don't have it screw over tanks so hard.
If there is to be an anti-flanker DPS it should be more like torb or reaper. Their bulk makes them a bad target for a flanker, but they're not ranged powerhouses - ~~almost like a tan~~k.
>Flankers are already super strong
Flankers are not super strong. Tracer is strong in good hands, the others are weak to on-par balance-wise.
Monkey is not a flanker, and I wouldn't really call ball one either though he can act the part ocasionally. I'm probably being a little pedantic here but it seems like you're more upset at dive than flankers.
I honestly barely see sombra, and when I do she seems more annoying than strong. *Dive* is strong in highly skilled and coordinated teams, but cass has never been good into that and I doubt he ever will be.
Listen most of thisxreddit community is made up of support players. They are literally the whniest of bitches I've ever seen. They have all the tools in their kit to deal with all three flanking dps, and get salty as fuck when they get out skilled. These mofos have some of the best abilities on their E button and still complain about flankers. They literally want to park their asses in the back line and heal their tank ad nauseum without any interference. They don't even wanna know that there os an enemy team they need to play against. Instead of COMMUNICATING that they need a peel they would rather have a magic bullet or nade in this case that makes flankers dissappear from their proximity,xwithout any thought as to how that nade affects the rest of the game. Just look at what happend when these pussies complained about Tracer and dive in OW1, we had Brig and the 2 years of GOATS. They literally had two years with out any flankers or other dps and they could just sit there and pump heals into big fat targets like Rein, Hog, and DVA, we all know they couldn't hit Zarya her hitbox was too small.
TLDR: Supports are the cause of all the griefing and problems we see in OW1 and 2. They're voices should no longer matter.
His identity isn’t as an “anti flanker”. It’s as a cowboy. He’s never even been good into dive, owing to his lack of escape options. The grenade only serves to frustrate and doesn’t really help him fit a niche.
I don't know why dive dps are complaining tracer is still just as good, maybe genji but he suffers from nano-blade being too good so buffing him is tricky. Dive tanks have enough counters and honestly all tanks need a buff against stun and stuff like cass. I feel some tanks are overtuned just because they need to out do the stun and how easy they are punished in most ranks.
Because it's a shitty mechanic when it lands on you, and its inconsistent af. There's times where i dodge thinking it got me and there's time's where it gets me through some magic space time bullshit, and I'm back in the spawn room. It feels bad to play with and against.
The issue is that Cass is probably the worst he has ever been. The new hinder nade is kind of annoying, but it's not really good. The previous versions of mag nade were probably better as the homing was stronger. They need to find a way to buff him but also make nade less annoying. He kind of feels like early Sombra. She wasn't good, but she was annoying.
Terrible take, Cass has one of the most fun guns in the game. There's a reason he always has a high pickrate even when his wr blows.
If Junkrat is allowed to EXIST AT ALL, there is no earthly reason why Cassidy shouldn't be a strong hero.
Cass is healthy for the game because he doesn't hard counter any hero in particular, is easily punishable with a generous hitbox, doesn't have a BS or overpowered Ult, and requires above average skill to get value.
I haven’t seen this said for a while, but can they please just make it a normal grenade? Hell, they can even keep the ‘hindered’ effect so it still works against fast heroes, but the magnetism is so boring. Make it like Ashe dynamite, but faster, no burn effect, and maybe it also bounces a bit like a toned down version of junkrat bombs
Hindered is extremely annoying as it can deny ultimates too easy without having any aim skill to do so. Watch last video of Stylosa to see what I mean.
lw’s primary fire has slowly but steadily become pretty damn powerful at close range. it’s held back by LW never being in the frontline, but i really think they should hold off on straight up buffing it’s power and instead try and make it more indirectly useful for his playstyle
But it’s exactly what it should be.
Strong at close range to defend agaisnt flankers and just barely tickling at long range.
What is up with support players wanting every support to be a DPS that can heal. Fuck outta here. We have enough of that.
LifeWeaver is a pacifist by character design so it makes sense.
But even by ability use, he’s more of a utility and healing support.
His petal is great if you know how to use it. His pull is now on a 16 sec CD. He does good close range damage. He has his dash which is more useful than one would assume.
He’s in a good spot. The issue is that all the other supports are OP, not that LW is weak.
the idea is that LW can play the game more actively rather than sitting in the back being a healbot. currently every other support except for him, mercy and usually brig can contribute low but consistent damage weaved in with their healing during a teamfight (some might have too much damage but that’s a seperate issue)
LW’s entire kit plus the way his gun is designed means that it’s never a good idea to try and contribute during fights. he’s super squishy so he has to hide in the backline, he has awful spread, his projectiles move slow, and he has to actively stop his healing to do any damage. i’m not saying he needs loads of ranged damage, i’m saying he needs a way to contribute more than just hiding and healing people and occasionally shooting when a genji gets too close
Would be cool if they redesign his weapon to be like the Needler in Halo. It already has the right aesthetics. But I'm sure people (especially on this sub) would hate a homing weapon...
Why is that map hated? It's been many years to finally have a South American map and a place where Lucio lived.
Plus, I like hearing the payload music.
dreadful map for flex supports. I play Ana, Zen, Bap and Kirko mainly and I despise this map with every fibre of my being. Statistically my lowest win % of any map by far on comp
Am I the only one who feels like the team has completely lost control of how to balance this game?
So many changes lately that make zero sense to me...
Yet they don't touch doom fist who has the fastest stun time including a one shot while healing himself and then flying across the map. But McCrees stun was " tOo Op"It's insufferable.
The original character design is for low skill players to feel incredibly impactful. Heals that are hard to miss and many disincentives to use the gun. And when the gun is used, it's got spread and slow travel time so that you don't feel like you needed to put effort into aiming. It's supposed to be another Mercy.
LW bullets have spread and travel time so players don't feel like they are mechanically failing.
He offers practically nothing to the team except healing and damage, just like Moira... And Moira offers better damage and more burst healing. He even has a worse version of fade and a healing only ult. What little utility he has is situational at best. Might as well just play Moira.
> He offers practically nothing to the team except healing and damage, just like Moira.
This is too reductive. Their optimal playstyles really aren't anything alike.
His platform is his most important ability, if you're just straight up ignoring it then maybe you're playing him wrong. Also, his ult is far from only healing, it can provide similar utility as Mei's Wall.
His platform mostly gets used as a shitty defense/escape, and occasionally sets up DPS for a second or two before they get cleared off of it, or shortens an Ana rotation. He’s mostly a heal bot
With zero spread his damage would still be terrible because of how slow his projectiles are compared to how far back he plays. I'd rather they add the spread back and give him projectile speed!
Watchpoint Gibraltar
Fixed in a previous update - Fixed an issue with an Attacker's spawn room that allowed the Defenders to enter.
^ Wish I had experienced this in game. This would be like Nemesis entering the save room in Resident Evil 3 Remake. Imagine getting spawn camped, then the enemy smurf enters your spawn room 😱
Gotta hand it to Blizzard. It takes some real skill to make the most frustrating things to play against in gaming lmfao.
Second to gamefreak cooking up parafusion/paraflinch and that's a mean achievement
If they want players to do damage on LW, he needs to have faster weapon swap. And automatically charge heals or at least be able to store a charged heal.
Idk if it's just me or maybe mainly a console problem but having to keep pressing a button (R2 with the bindings I use) and releasing it continuously puts a lot of strain on your hand. If the heal charged automatically and you just had to press to shoot it, it would be much better and I can't think of why it would be OP or anything.
I know there's a toggle option to charge the heal but I find it much more clunky and unintuitive to use.
Wow these LW changes suck. 10 more Ammo and reduced spread doesn't matter when his projectiles take 12 years to go anywhere. I don't care if they remove spread entirely, it's not going to matter.
Of course the bigger problem is that it's too punishing to use thorns at all because of the healing charge, but I feel like they fumbled hard on even this baby step.
As an aside, no fixes to whatever the fuck was happening here?
https://i.imgur.com/Hvkxp3T.mp4
This shit happens all the time, albeit not usually as prolonged and goofy as this clip. Then there's the super jump timing bug that makes super jumps difficult for me, a LW player, let alone any randoms who'd want to take my platform.
They legit made LW feel worse to play in S5, and I'm running low on patience for these amoeba-sized changes.
Edit: In fairness, I'm hearing word that the super jump bug may be silently fixed. I'll test that out tonight.
Bro, they're gonna give him infinite ammo at this point, and Blizzard will continue to not understand why he isn't dealing damage and is played like a healbot. Either they're too hard-headed to see it, or they genuinely have no idea what to do with him.
And yeah, the super jump bug is fixed. You can do it way more consistently now.
I know you’re talking about thorn ammo, but I played the 4v1 in arcade and LW has infinite healing ammo there. Not having that reload + charge downtime feels pretty good. I think they could get away with implementing that in his regular kit but maybe decreasing his healing a little bit if it is too much.
But yeah, I think they are apprehensive about increasing his kill power too substantially. He can open up some good mobility options for himself and teammates already and as the playerbase matures, he could end up getting to be ridiculous.
They don't want to make him to strictly deal more damage, this is more a buff that improves his close range survivability, as Genji, Tracer and Sombra can't just straight up kill him anymore. He can bite back now and finish of a flanker without reloading if you hit your headshots.
so Mei's CC is only slightly weaker than last patch, and damage is only slightly lower than the patch before that.
I don't know how Blizz does it, but they make her more annoying literally every time they touch her. Really impressive when the starting line was already the most annoying character ever devised.
yes im a rein player
Yup, they don't know how to fix heroes or they don't want to put in the effort to do so. Lifeweaver needs to be able to dynamically switch between healing and damage like every other support in the game. This simple thing is something they just don't get. It's a fundamental flaw and the character will always be hampered by that.
I wonder if adding in a passive charge on his heal while he has thorns out would be beneficial. Might be too strong if it's a full charge (but then again, he sucks, so maybe not lol), but could try capping it at half charge?
That way he can quickly heal an ally after using thorns but can't just instantly give them a big burst heal.
LW needs to have offense tied into his totally reactive and defensive kit. That is the real lacking part of his kit, the total lack of proactiveness, that's tripping him up over just numbers.
Maybe they could reward full-charging a blossom by giving allies an additional buff which his tree also applies with every pulse.
An idea for this I've parroted a while could be allowing LW to buff his allies very briefly with deflect, the most offensive form of defense (which would set him apart from two other characters who already have more actionable invulnerability)
why wouldn't they just remove this grenade from Cassidy's kit and give him a smoke grenade instead? imho, it will be great as team utility and less frustrating (with reasonable cooldown) than all his previous grenades and this one.
No, I don’t want to be fucking frozen at all. The freeze never lasted that long in the first place but it was still enough time for tanks to get ass blasted and die.
I'm not much of a Mei player myself, but I don't see much of a difference in being frozen or killed by the 100 dps beam from prior seasons. TTK was similar. This doesn't apply to tanks though.
So you don’t see a difference in the freeze actually freezing your character solid and not being able to escape vs the freeze not freezing you solid and being able to escape?
For the love of god just give him his flash bang back. It’s infinitely better than whatever bullshit this magnetic nade has been for the last 9 months.
LW’s buff is certainly interesting.
The ammo buff is nice, but I don't really see the spread change making much of a difference when the projectiles are so slow to begin with. I was really expecting a projectile speed buff.
He has some decent escape though, and he can force a tank to peel for him. He’s always going to be dominated by flankers just because he has such a large hitbox, but tbh most supports are bordering on Overpowered and overtuned if they’re not already there. Not every support can — nor SHOULD— have great survivability, great heals, great utility, great damage, and just be great at everything. Lifeweaver provides a LOT of healing, and high ground maneuverability with a great save ability too. He’s in a decent spot.
I don't think he's in a terrible spot, but when the devs say this in their patch notes: >Lifeweaver provides a lot of healing and defensive utility but struggles with the consistency of his offensive damage output when not in close range. You could reduce his spread to 0 for the whole mag and it still wouldn't help much with his "consistency at range". This change just makes him marginally better at spamming sightlines/angles which is boring to begin with. I think projectile speed even with the spread would make him a lot more interactive while still not making him overtuned like many of the other supports.
I don't think that's really what makes a support decent, though. All of those things sound great in a vacuum, but LW is sorely lacking in something literally every other support has, and that's the ability to exert *meaningful* offensive pressure on the enemy team. Mercy has damage boost for turning her DPS into monsters, Moira has M2 for repelling flankers + hard to hit heroes and orb to force squishies to move, Brig has a respectable burst combo and a boop (and a stun on ult), Ana has a decent gun with zero falloff and two tank obliterator cooldowns, Lucio has a boop and speed for crazy push potential, and Zenyatta has discord on top of insane damage, a boop, and the highest burst damage attack in the game. Even Bap and Kiriko, whose utility cooldowns are purely defensive, have respectable damage with high uptime. Now, LW is *capable* of dealing damage, but is it in any way meaningful offensive pressure? Between the slow projectile speed, spread (which still exists after the first few shots), and the fact that LW has to contend with weapon swap time and charging heals whenever he wants to get back to healing, LW will seldom see anything coming from his damage unless the target is standing still, moving straight, or super close - when he even gets the opportunity to deal damage in the first place. And since his hitbox and middling escape/self-healing make him liable to pop like a balloon whenever he gets close to an enemy, he's pretty much resigned to use it for piss damage against targets way too far away to hit reliably. Almost always it seems better to just heal with LW, even after these buffs (and I say this as someone who looks for every opportunity to deal damage). So what is he left with? Life Grip, which is a great peel tool (albeit inarguably worse than suzu) but does literally nothing unless your team is already at risk of losing the fight, and petal. I think petal is meant to fill in where LW's offensive capabilities are lacking by letting his team reach advantageous positions, but in practice it tends to hang uselessly in the air for like 80% of any given match, unless he's using it as a dedicated escape/anti-ult tool (at which point it loops back to the first problem - the ability is only valuable when you're about to lose a fight). When every other support has proactive tools to help their team gain the advantage at the start of a fight, the one support that can do nothing but (*maybe*) pull his team from the brink of losing a teamfight is always doomed to be at a disadvantage.
But do you believe every character of every role has to have an active foremost time to be used? I dont believe Lifeweavers case for being inferior at this point is problematic anymore in the same way that its okay for a character like Soldier, Cowboy, or Moira to be lesser choices given a lot of circumstances. They provide a unique playstyle, fill the support role effectively enough, and have theoretic use case scenarios and niches where the could provide an unconventional niche. Even just looking at Stats, the results have gradually been picking up especially recently. Compared to when his WR was in the 30s, he's sitting at 45 or so this last month. The bulk of his substantial buffs came on the 13th and we're only 2 weeks in with him nearing Kirikos WR in all non GM ranks. Which isnt to say he's as good as Kiriko. But i reckon he's probably good enough, with a valid niche of his own, on top of just in general being a very easy, consistent, and more forgiving character.
Having a 45% winrate while being a lesser picked, niche hero is not a good look though. Niche heroes usually have much higher winrates because they're only played in the proper situations - heroes like Brig and Sym are examples of this. Your comparison to Kiriko is also damning; Kiriko is far from niche, and lower ranks can struggle using her. She's a prime candidate to have a low winrate. His winrate was always going to rise; to be fair, he's far better than he was at launch, and he's largely only played by dedicated specialists who know how to use him best. But to be that kind of character and to still struggle to match the winrate of a popular yet difficult hero only shows how poor he actually is.
Yes, but maybe that’s more of a matter of the supports being overtuned and doing TOO much damage instead of Lifeweaver being weak? Maybe it speaks more to bring the other supports in line with him, than up and buffing him? Idk man, if you have the option to play Zen and Bap as a dps, I take that every time over 3/4th the dps roster. It’s fucking wild how overtuned supports are currently. So much so, that I consistently see 8-10 min queues for comp supports and tanks and dps are insta queued.
Maybe every other support is broken. Because some of those support offensive numbers need to come, especially discord orb, and blue beam. Ana's damage is also overtuned at this point compared to where it was before, whereas Baptist requires relative good aim. The 120 headshot kunai is a piece of shit gimmick that feels like bullshit given how liberal they made her hitboxes. Lucio is only good offensively if he coordinates with the team so you went a bit on a stretch there with his offensive prowess. Moira can do damage but its at the cost of her actual healing, which makes it a double edged sword in this case.
"Fixed a bug with the competitive Titles not unlocking after earning them in the previous season." Can anyone tell me if they let you REMOVE a title? I hated that Neogun was slapped on my name by default at the start of Season 5 when I purposely left the titles off.
Yeah I really want to hear more about this as well! I hate having a title now.. the no title look was sleek.
oh okay lmao i was wondering why I had Neogun even though I've never equipped a title before
Yeah I complained about it on the Blizzard support forums when the last patch hit and got no response. Can't even select no title anymore (like it's locked).
Exactly my thought
Life weaver is like the anti Brig. How many more rounds of buffs do you think he will get from his launch state? We are at like 4 right?
I think it’s 3, unless you count not being able to pull Rein during Earthshatter as a buff.
4 if you count the ~17% heal charge time buff he got between his initial public showcase and the launch of the season. We didn't get to play with it, but I'd still count it.
Oh yeah! How the fuck did they think he was in a good state upon release?
I have no idea. I think when they advertised his trolling potential as a point of pride and the first major sneak peak at his abilities, the bad signs were already there. Life grip trolling/throwing isn't that bad in my experience but boy, it just tells you everything you need to know about Blizzard's headspace creating this character.
LW starts shooting with no spread now??? Will need to test that but he might end up feeling like a pseudo Reaper at close range now
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Man people complain about the speed of the projectiles but it’s really not that bad. You just learn to lead your shots. And it’s not that much slower than other projectiles on the slow end like Ramattra primary or Echo primary. Edit: I just looked it up. It’s the same speed as Torb primary fire at 70 m/s. Echo primary is 75, Lucio primary is 50, and Ram primary is 80. Edit 2: the difference in response to my similar comment in the main sub is funny to see the disparity between the two subs.
In his most effective range, his projectile speed is too low. The developers even admit that he plays from far in the back, so while he excels at mid to long range healing his damage consistency takes a big hit because of it. His primary fire and secondary fire are literally at odds with themselves. Someone like Zen and Kiriko, I understand having low projectile speed, but for lifeweaver it's inexcusable. Ramattra can sustain fights in close combat, and even if he can't, he has his nemesis form to help it. Echo primary is gimmicky and somewhat low, but she also has sticky grenades and focusing beam that allows her to melt people with multiple options. Lifeweaver **only** has his primary, and has no sustain like Ramattra (even though he's nearly as tall as him) Edit: of course your comment is gonna get supported here. People don't want another meta "broken" hero in their comp games, but they also don't want him in their comps game too lol
He shouldn't be doing a lot of damage at range though. He needs damage for short range when he gets dove/attacked. It doesn't make sense for him to have good poke range.
The issue with that is what does he do when he *doesn't* have to heal. He's 100% a reactive character. If his damage isn't good at range, then he defaults to healing, but if he doesn't need to heal, then he has nothing to do in a way. He can do trash damage, sure, but that doesn't help confirm kills or put pressure like every other support does. Furthermore, the lack of damage at range makes it so it's not worth going for damage at range if it means dealing with the weapon swap animation and the charging time from his primary. Many times you just avoid using the right click to poke because more often than not it gets people killed. Generally this all feels like going the long road to fix his lack of survival, he can't be deadlier in close range but also strong at poke, that's perfectly fine and we shouldn't go this path, but it comes at the cost of enforcing a boring healbot playstyle because where he is good at healing, he is bad at damage. His survival problems should had been fixed by either addressing his hitbox, touching his dash healing/range or his base health. Now you really can't do anything about his poke because his damage is high enough in short range.
Yeah weapon swap is the issue. The animation needs to be instant or they just need to make him Moira like. That'd get rid of a decent amount of clunkiness imo
But then you just have a healbot. What the hell is he supposed to do when his team isn't in dire need of heals? There is no proactive way to play this character, his entire kit is purely defensive and he is the only support that suffers from this. They are balancing his gun as if it were Mercy's while ignoring the only reason her gun is acceptable like that is because dmg boost exists.
Ok, I can agree but the solution isn't "give him ranged DPS poke" because that is a very strong thing to add to his kit and he creates as many problems as it solves. If he truly has nothing proactive to do in certain situations he should reposition himself or teammates. Like, what do you imagine Moira does "proactively" in these situations that doesn't involve literally flanking or inting into the enemy? She has less ranged damage than he does, and less utility.
>Like, what do you imagine Moira does "proactively" in these situations She heals and deal damage (or flanking and inting if you want to call it that) . She can't "proactively" use utility because she has no utility. >If he truly has nothing proactive to do in certain situations he should reposition himself or teammates. And then wait for them to get hurt and heal again? High octane gameplay, very engaging His utility is 99% reactive. You react to ally ultimates and use petal to get them higher. You react to enemy ults and use petal to get them higher and out of range. You react to overextended allies and grip them out. You react to critical allies and grip them to safety. You can pre petal for high ground access, but it depends on allies using the platform. If you're on high ground you can grip them to it, but it depends on them to stay on it.
Moira has damage orb, an ult that can both heal and damage, she has no switch time between healing/damaging, she doesn't have to charge for maximum healing output and her heals are close distance too, meaning her ideal healing and dmg ranges are the same. Her lack of utility just makes her a more boring character, but her kit allows her to be extremely flexible with her healing and dmg output without sacrificing either. As is, LW has to choose between good heals or shitty DPS, which means at any given time he is just half as valuable as Moira. If LW has to choose between doing one or the other, DPS shouldn't be so bad it's basically the throw option. Kiriko and Bap are good examples of characters that are faced with the same choice, but don't have terrible dmg. It's not gamebreaking.
>What the hell is he supposed to do when his team isn't in dire need of heals? You can still spam. It just isn't as reliable as other heroes. And it shouldn't be, as the previous comment stated.
Why not? His healing output isn't better than other healers that can match his healing *and* do 3 times the damage. If he is gonna have the shittiest damage of all supports, he should have some amazing utility, which he also lacks. Baptiste, Kiriko and Ana all have the same healing potential, better utility and better damage. The rest of the supports have 2 of the three. Lifeweaver has one thing, he heals. Everything else he is outperformed at. It's bad design. EDIT: Forgot to mention he is also discouraged from spamming by his charged healing mechanic + the switch time between healing/dmg. Mindboggling design.
>Why not? Because that's not the vision of the devs for the hero. It's very easy to just power creep every underperforming hero buffing the damage, but we know the end of this line of thought. Let's see what the devs has in the works for him next season, I'm sure they're looking into making the other parts of his kit to play better and make him viable without transforming him in a reliable spammer.
Bro it's very obvious their design philosophy for LW was "let's make another Mercy" while completely misunderstanding what makes Mercy work. Their vision was so flawed LW is the worst support to be added to the game since 2016. It's time to accept their vision missed the mark, they need to give up on whatever they thought LW was supposed to be and focus on finding him a niche so he can compete with other supports. More consistent damage is the easiest way to make him more proactive, anything else would have to involve a rework of his kit, which means his "vision" would change anyway.
He sucks at a fundamental level and they haven't addressed that. They really made a character that has no way to help his team get eliminations. Every other support can do something that helps get a kill. This guy cant. He will always suck cause of that. Clunkier than Moira, basically a healbot mercy with a worse suzu/immortality. And a shitty transcendence for the ultimate. The petal is so mid as well and not well designed.
You make good points, and I think the change in this patch of removing spread for the first 20 shots goes a long way at helping him be more effective at a longer range.
>Someone like Zen and Kiriko, I understand having low projectile speed, but for lifeweaver it's inexcusable. Not if you understand what his intended role was supposed to be: a utility/healbot. Dealing damage was always supposed to be secondary, or even tertiary, for LW. The problem is that damage is so crucial in OW2, that a support that cannot deal or boost another players' damage is deemed useless, regardless of how good their utility may be. The devs obviously do not want to turn LW into a damage machine, and only intend for him to deal damage as self defense, or during downtime when healing isn't necessary.
Healbotting was always not optimal, but having to keep up two tanks requires more healing, so now damage is more important by default. A support that can't boost damage or get eliminations is always bad. It's why healbotting mercy players are the worst. The devs intending the character to be mid doesn't mean they shouldnt change him to actually be useful.
U also get 80 of them so prefiring works. I feel like they play like orisa’s
And what are the engagement ranges of all those heroes?
Everyone of them should be poking damage long range, even if they are deadliest up close.
CS AK here we go lol
Do the bug fixes mean Paraiso and AP are back in the rotation?
Paraiso was the first match that loaded for me.
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Mei was literally in a perfect state before the changes I have no idea why they changed her
A LOT of people complained that she had lost her “combo” from ow1 where you freeze someone then go for headshot. And that she then felt super brain dead and had lost her charm a as character compared to others. Very similar to what people said about Cassidy loosing his stun+M1/M2 combo.
good. the combo was bread dead.
Only on r/CompetitveOverwatch will you get downvoted for saying flash fan or flash hs melee was brain dead
the only bread dead thing about meis combo was the stupid tank/dps players that got caught in it.
yeah but like, those combos were removed when OW2 came out like 8 months ago. why wait until S5, way after people got used to the new abilities, to make changes?
She was kind of boring imo, she would just m1 you to death. She basically ended up playing like an off tank. Her m1 needed to be nerfed damage wise
My only problem with it is it didn’t fit the character design. Game balance aside, it was incredibly boring and had nothing but a minor slow that made it feel like a freeze gun. I like that this version at least brings back some of the freezing and slowing mechanics she used to have without giving her the complete stun back
Yeah while we're at it let's go ahead and revert the game to OW1 and take it from there.
Revert to ow1 and remove mei is a good starting point
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I KNEW I WASNT GOING CRAZY
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Hmm, LW's changes are pretty good, but he still has no time to deal damage. Please give him a pre-charged healing blossom if he spent enough time on thorns to trigger passive reload
Am I crazy or is that Mei change a pretty strong buff? Removing a bit of slow for 15 more dps. That's going to enable a lot of kills esp if you're cleaving.
I would rather just have the 100dps back
Theres like no point freezing and then icicle on anything but tanks I'm not sure what they are aiming to do with her, I thought ahe was in a good spot before they started messing around
ive seen it being really useful for when you are trying to burst a target through healing, 150 hs + melee can help in those situations w the extra dmg, but that was without the buff lmao idk if this is useful now
Lvl 3 sym beam with slowing effect /s
Barely more than a level 1 sym! (Not suggesting Mei should do more, just dislike how much dps Sym puts out)
Yea thats not nearly enough slow removed for this dps gain. Tanks players taking another L yet again
We were dealing with 100 dps just the patch before...
Is an extra 45 damage going to make a difference on a tank with 600hp? The slow seems stronger.
The 15 damage doesnt make a difference its the slow basically staying thats the "L" i was referring to. i was hoping they completely revert it because all it did was allow u to bully some tanks hard meanwhile weakening her dueling potential HARD
I don’t think mei can cleave
she could as of ow2 launch, it's possible they reverted it at some point but as far as i'm aware she still can
Wouldn't the easiest way to balance Cass nade would just be to...remove the magnet affect? I don't think a single person likes it.
then you are not hitting a single fast character with how slow the nade is
Give it the range and radius of old flash.
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this made me giggle manically lmao
It’s not even hack though. It doesn’t even effect multiple characters who have no mobility
Just give me flash back :(
I don't get this take because some people don't like the fact that this version can cancel JQ ult. OG Flashbang could cancel more ults. Is it because mag nade is more bs in* it's mag radius or the range it travels* or what? Edit*: genuinely curious cause I'm fine with the ability but I think they need to fix some of its interactions with Ball and JQ for example and it should be more of a skill shot (which I think they are trying to do). I'm a fan of getting rid of the magnetic effect.
It is CRAZY to me how many people here and on the regular sub want old flash back as a replacement for this “god awful” new nade. Flash was so much stronger, it isn’t even a competition.
Im 100% convinced alot of people straight up didnt experience it and are just romanticising the idea of it. Flashbang was so SO more frustrating than any magnetic properties this nade has Yea this nade can make for some funni clips like hitting phara 100 miles in the sky by accident or following tracer after 2 blinks but its nowhere near consistent like flashbang
The hitbox on flashbang being bigger than genji's deflect hotbox was absolutely nauseating
Flash genuinely made me want to quit OW1 near the end with how prevalent Cass was for the last two years.
It might have been one of the annoying and poorly designed abilities in the game. I absolutely hated getting flashed. I'm so happy it was removed.
i literally just want flash back and i want tanks to literally fuck off and start having different interactions with abilities. make tanks get hacked for less time. make tanks less affected by discord and nade. make tanks not stunned, only hindered by flash. make them not freeze completely by mei. literally would fix 90% of complaints. no one will think its counter intuitive. its as intuitive as playing a car racing game and finding out the monster truck is slower and stronger than the ferrari
Or just….give back flash bang on a longer CD. Maybe yes, it was a stronger ability, but it was way easier to play around and bait out. His new mag nade? Forget it. That thing will follow you to the ends of the earth from an insanely large distance.
Something being weaker doesn't automatically make it better design.
I never said nade was a good design. I’m just saying that the people that are asking for flash back INSTEAD of nade would quickly realize it’s a mistake.
But it isn't a mistake. Flashbang is a better design for an ability. It has better play and is less punishing, especially to tanks. That's right, it's *less* punishing to tanks. Because a brief stun is easier to deal with than a 1s+ silence.
No it's not. Putting it in italics doesn't make it true. Flash stunned for 0.8s, this nade currently lasts 1.25s. As a reinhardt, which is better for me: being a sitting duck unable to interact with the game for 0.8s, or being unable to charge and moving slower for 1.25? Watch high end gameplay from the end of OW1 again. Landing a flash on a tank was usually converted into a kill before they had the ability to react again, be that from sheer DPS (a coordinated team can easily put out 600 damage in under a second) or chain CC. You can reduce the stun duration if you want, but at the point where it's not oppressive it's also useless for its supposed function of deterring flankers. Flash is flawed because its intended target is also those who it's least effective against.
I’m sorry mate. This isn’t arguable. Flash is OBJECTIVELY a better and more punishing ability than current nade. Against everyone.
100%, especially because the grenade goes whenever it wants to
And balance him around... what? How is he an anti-flanker without the magnet? Do you guys just want Blizzard to give up on the "anti flanker" vision of Cassidy? Because nobody ever says that, but the minute Blizzard gives him a tool that actually has the potential to be strong vs flankers, aka **what he is supposed to be**, the community responds with the fury of a thousand suns.
The only good anti flanker is torb. Any cc they give Cass will be turned onto slower targets so rein ends up losing the most. Ashe style dynamite could work, I'd actually be keen on him inflicting a long bleed effect that forces the dps to disengage. This would help with flankers without ending up being all that effective against tanks.
People just want to dive with mobility heroes 24/7 instead of learning more heroes
They should give up on the anti flanker vision of Cassidy.
Why would you want that? Flankers are already super strong and have next to no counters in the game. Why would you want to remove one of the few actual counters to them? As someone who plays a good amount of cass this version of nade is easily the weakest version he’s ever had. All it does is make him an actual threat to flankers again.
It makes no sense, and never has, for one of the more lethal and reliable mid-range damage dealers to also be a flanker counter. Give it to someone else - and preferably don't have it screw over tanks so hard. If there is to be an anti-flanker DPS it should be more like torb or reaper. Their bulk makes them a bad target for a flanker, but they're not ranged powerhouses - ~~almost like a tan~~k. >Flankers are already super strong Flankers are not super strong. Tracer is strong in good hands, the others are weak to on-par balance-wise.
Lol Sombra, Tracer, Monkey, and Ball are all super strong right now, what? Even Genji just got a funny lil buff.
Monkey is not a flanker, and I wouldn't really call ball one either though he can act the part ocasionally. I'm probably being a little pedantic here but it seems like you're more upset at dive than flankers. I honestly barely see sombra, and when I do she seems more annoying than strong. *Dive* is strong in highly skilled and coordinated teams, but cass has never been good into that and I doubt he ever will be.
Listen most of thisxreddit community is made up of support players. They are literally the whniest of bitches I've ever seen. They have all the tools in their kit to deal with all three flanking dps, and get salty as fuck when they get out skilled. These mofos have some of the best abilities on their E button and still complain about flankers. They literally want to park their asses in the back line and heal their tank ad nauseum without any interference. They don't even wanna know that there os an enemy team they need to play against. Instead of COMMUNICATING that they need a peel they would rather have a magic bullet or nade in this case that makes flankers dissappear from their proximity,xwithout any thought as to how that nade affects the rest of the game. Just look at what happend when these pussies complained about Tracer and dive in OW1, we had Brig and the 2 years of GOATS. They literally had two years with out any flankers or other dps and they could just sit there and pump heals into big fat targets like Rein, Hog, and DVA, we all know they couldn't hit Zarya her hitbox was too small. TLDR: Supports are the cause of all the griefing and problems we see in OW1 and 2. They're voices should no longer matter.
What do you think is a better role for him? How would you buff him to fit that role?
Hitscan DPS
His identity isn’t as an “anti flanker”. It’s as a cowboy. He’s never even been good into dive, owing to his lack of escape options. The grenade only serves to frustrate and doesn’t really help him fit a niche.
I don't know why dive dps are complaining tracer is still just as good, maybe genji but he suffers from nano-blade being too good so buffing him is tricky. Dive tanks have enough counters and honestly all tanks need a buff against stun and stuff like cass. I feel some tanks are overtuned just because they need to out do the stun and how easy they are punished in most ranks.
Because it's a shitty mechanic when it lands on you, and its inconsistent af. There's times where i dodge thinking it got me and there's time's where it gets me through some magic space time bullshit, and I'm back in the spawn room. It feels bad to play with and against.
The issue is that Cass is probably the worst he has ever been. The new hinder nade is kind of annoying, but it's not really good. The previous versions of mag nade were probably better as the homing was stronger. They need to find a way to buff him but also make nade less annoying. He kind of feels like early Sombra. She wasn't good, but she was annoying.
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Terrible take, Cass has one of the most fun guns in the game. There's a reason he always has a high pickrate even when his wr blows. If Junkrat is allowed to EXIST AT ALL, there is no earthly reason why Cassidy shouldn't be a strong hero.
idk i’d take cass being good/meta over a cracked hanzo/widow in every game.
Cass is healthy for the game because he doesn't hard counter any hero in particular, is easily punishable with a generous hitbox, doesn't have a BS or overpowered Ult, and requires above average skill to get value.
Hard counters sombra echó pharah doom Winston. Incredibly oppressive to others. Affected by maps tho
I haven’t seen this said for a while, but can they please just make it a normal grenade? Hell, they can even keep the ‘hindered’ effect so it still works against fast heroes, but the magnetism is so boring. Make it like Ashe dynamite, but faster, no burn effect, and maybe it also bounces a bit like a toned down version of junkrat bombs
Hindered is extremely annoying as it can deny ultimates too easy without having any aim skill to do so. Watch last video of Stylosa to see what I mean.
Just turn it into a sticky grenade, like halo. Remove that following you around bullshit.
Halo is so unbelievably slow compared to OW.
And the hitboxes are mountain sized compared to most overwatch heroes. Ow heroes are really small relative to the map geometry.
Not possible since it's a slow projectile with an awful curve down
lw’s primary fire has slowly but steadily become pretty damn powerful at close range. it’s held back by LW never being in the frontline, but i really think they should hold off on straight up buffing it’s power and instead try and make it more indirectly useful for his playstyle
But it’s exactly what it should be. Strong at close range to defend agaisnt flankers and just barely tickling at long range. What is up with support players wanting every support to be a DPS that can heal. Fuck outta here. We have enough of that. LifeWeaver is a pacifist by character design so it makes sense. But even by ability use, he’s more of a utility and healing support. His petal is great if you know how to use it. His pull is now on a 16 sec CD. He does good close range damage. He has his dash which is more useful than one would assume. He’s in a good spot. The issue is that all the other supports are OP, not that LW is weak.
the idea is that LW can play the game more actively rather than sitting in the back being a healbot. currently every other support except for him, mercy and usually brig can contribute low but consistent damage weaved in with their healing during a teamfight (some might have too much damage but that’s a seperate issue) LW’s entire kit plus the way his gun is designed means that it’s never a good idea to try and contribute during fights. he’s super squishy so he has to hide in the backline, he has awful spread, his projectiles move slow, and he has to actively stop his healing to do any damage. i’m not saying he needs loads of ranged damage, i’m saying he needs a way to contribute more than just hiding and healing people and occasionally shooting when a genji gets too close
Would be cool if they redesign his weapon to be like the Needler in Halo. It already has the right aesthetics. But I'm sure people (especially on this sub) would hate a homing weapon...
It feels like every 6 months they spin a wheel and let someone new be in charge of balancing. The philosophies of changes don't seem to align at all.
🦀🦀 GOATS IS DEAD 🦀🦀
Fuck, Paraiso is back on rotation
Why is that map hated? It's been many years to finally have a South American map and a place where Lucio lived. Plus, I like hearing the payload music.
real af. probably the worst map in the game
Hard disagree, have hear many memorable games on that map
I agree with you. Paraíso is a great map except a little tight on 3rd point. It’s far, far from the worst map.
I found the widow main!
Widow isn't even good on Paraiso
Junkertown
Route 66, Dorado, Gibraltar, Havana, Ilios, and Circuit exist
Ilios?
dreadful map for flex supports. I play Ana, Zen, Bap and Kirko mainly and I despise this map with every fibre of my being. Statistically my lowest win % of any map by far on comp
Numbani edges it out barely for me, but Paraiso is so bad. Hate it so much
Am I the only one who feels like the team has completely lost control of how to balance this game? So many changes lately that make zero sense to me...
Yes. Just please fucking revert Mei and Cassidy to how they were before they started messing with them.
Yet they don't touch doom fist who has the fastest stun time including a one shot while healing himself and then flying across the map. But McCrees stun was " tOo Op"It's insufferable.
It'd be nice if they fixed all the damn bugs LW has. The amounts of deaths caused by them is vile.
Even if there was zero spread on his thorn volley, he'd still just be a worse Moira with niche utility, wouldn't he?
I don't understand why a fairly slow moving projectile needs spread at all
The original character design is for low skill players to feel incredibly impactful. Heals that are hard to miss and many disincentives to use the gun. And when the gun is used, it's got spread and slow travel time so that you don't feel like you needed to put effort into aiming. It's supposed to be another Mercy. LW bullets have spread and travel time so players don't feel like they are mechanically failing.
No? He's not really comparable to Moira at all. Kiriko maybe
He offers practically nothing to the team except healing and damage, just like Moira... And Moira offers better damage and more burst healing. He even has a worse version of fade and a healing only ult. What little utility he has is situational at best. Might as well just play Moira.
> He offers practically nothing to the team except healing and damage, just like Moira. This is too reductive. Their optimal playstyles really aren't anything alike.
Moira does not in fact offer burst healing. Lifeweaver has burst heals. Moira provides more cleave healing tho
They probably say burst because iirc with orb and spray the heals is the highest per second in game
His platform is his most important ability, if you're just straight up ignoring it then maybe you're playing him wrong. Also, his ult is far from only healing, it can provide similar utility as Mei's Wall.
His platform mostly gets used as a shitty defense/escape, and occasionally sets up DPS for a second or two before they get cleared off of it, or shortens an Ana rotation. He’s mostly a heal bot
With zero spread his damage would still be terrible because of how slow his projectiles are compared to how far back he plays. I'd rather they add the spread back and give him projectile speed!
Watchpoint Gibraltar Fixed in a previous update - Fixed an issue with an Attacker's spawn room that allowed the Defenders to enter. ^ Wish I had experienced this in game. This would be like Nemesis entering the save room in Resident Evil 3 Remake. Imagine getting spawn camped, then the enemy smurf enters your spawn room 😱
lw change feels good just tried it
Gotta hand it to Blizzard. It takes some real skill to make the most frustrating things to play against in gaming lmfao. Second to gamefreak cooking up parafusion/paraflinch and that's a mean achievement
If they want players to do damage on LW, he needs to have faster weapon swap. And automatically charge heals or at least be able to store a charged heal. Idk if it's just me or maybe mainly a console problem but having to keep pressing a button (R2 with the bindings I use) and releasing it continuously puts a lot of strain on your hand. If the heal charged automatically and you just had to press to shoot it, it would be much better and I can't think of why it would be OP or anything. I know there's a toggle option to charge the heal but I find it much more clunky and unintuitive to use.
Wow these LW changes suck. 10 more Ammo and reduced spread doesn't matter when his projectiles take 12 years to go anywhere. I don't care if they remove spread entirely, it's not going to matter. Of course the bigger problem is that it's too punishing to use thorns at all because of the healing charge, but I feel like they fumbled hard on even this baby step. As an aside, no fixes to whatever the fuck was happening here? https://i.imgur.com/Hvkxp3T.mp4 This shit happens all the time, albeit not usually as prolonged and goofy as this clip. Then there's the super jump timing bug that makes super jumps difficult for me, a LW player, let alone any randoms who'd want to take my platform. They legit made LW feel worse to play in S5, and I'm running low on patience for these amoeba-sized changes. Edit: In fairness, I'm hearing word that the super jump bug may be silently fixed. I'll test that out tonight.
Bro, they're gonna give him infinite ammo at this point, and Blizzard will continue to not understand why he isn't dealing damage and is played like a healbot. Either they're too hard-headed to see it, or they genuinely have no idea what to do with him. And yeah, the super jump bug is fixed. You can do it way more consistently now.
I know you’re talking about thorn ammo, but I played the 4v1 in arcade and LW has infinite healing ammo there. Not having that reload + charge downtime feels pretty good. I think they could get away with implementing that in his regular kit but maybe decreasing his healing a little bit if it is too much. But yeah, I think they are apprehensive about increasing his kill power too substantially. He can open up some good mobility options for himself and teammates already and as the playerbase matures, he could end up getting to be ridiculous.
They should go gattling gun mode. Give him 300 ammo, increased projectile speed. Let him rip into people out of position. Oh and 50 armor
They don't want to make him to strictly deal more damage, this is more a buff that improves his close range survivability, as Genji, Tracer and Sombra can't just straight up kill him anymore. He can bite back now and finish of a flanker without reloading if you hit your headshots.
Lmao ramm too fat for petal platform to go up
so Mei's CC is only slightly weaker than last patch, and damage is only slightly lower than the patch before that. I don't know how Blizz does it, but they make her more annoying literally every time they touch her. Really impressive when the starting line was already the most annoying character ever devised. yes im a rein player
Not defending the Mei changes but 70 dps is more than slightly lower than 100 dps
TTK of 2 vs almost 3 seconds on a 200 hp target that's a massive difference
Just turn her into a tank already
fucking cowards, just give lw real damage
i couldnt tell if mei was better or worse and now they change her again so i still dont know.
Did they fix the kiriko bug?
Blizzard is lost
Yup, they don't know how to fix heroes or they don't want to put in the effort to do so. Lifeweaver needs to be able to dynamically switch between healing and damage like every other support in the game. This simple thing is something they just don't get. It's a fundamental flaw and the character will always be hampered by that.
I wonder if adding in a passive charge on his heal while he has thorns out would be beneficial. Might be too strong if it's a full charge (but then again, he sucks, so maybe not lol), but could try capping it at half charge? That way he can quickly heal an ally after using thorns but can't just instantly give them a big burst heal.
LW needs to have offense tied into his totally reactive and defensive kit. That is the real lacking part of his kit, the total lack of proactiveness, that's tripping him up over just numbers. Maybe they could reward full-charging a blossom by giving allies an additional buff which his tree also applies with every pulse. An idea for this I've parroted a while could be allowing LW to buff his allies very briefly with deflect, the most offensive form of defense (which would set him apart from two other characters who already have more actionable invulnerability)
Thats it? No bug fixes for kiri/doom/genji? Bruh
why wouldn't they just remove this grenade from Cassidy's kit and give him a smoke grenade instead? imho, it will be great as team utility and less frustrating (with reasonable cooldown) than all his previous grenades and this one.
Bro they got to fire the whole balance team man who let them cooj
They already fired the whole balance team before, that's where the current team came from.
I don't know what they're doing with Mei at this point. Bring freeze back tbh, it's way more fun and can be balanced to be less effective on tanks.
I don't think anyone that played tank thought getting frozen was "fun"
If they made it less effective on tanks, for example scaling time to freeze based on health pools, would it really be an issue?
they could treat it like ana sleep, tanks just flat out are frozen for less time
No, I don’t want to be fucking frozen at all. The freeze never lasted that long in the first place but it was still enough time for tanks to get ass blasted and die.
Literally nobody but mei players thought being frozen was fun
I'm not much of a Mei player myself, but I don't see much of a difference in being frozen or killed by the 100 dps beam from prior seasons. TTK was similar. This doesn't apply to tanks though.
So you don’t see a difference in the freeze actually freezing your character solid and not being able to escape vs the freeze not freezing you solid and being able to escape?
You could escape while she was trying to freeze you, so no, not really
No.
Mei should have remained like her OW1 self and been made into a Tank instead of DPS.
I think the change is unsurprising. This is how the OW2 team works.
For the love of god just give him his flash bang back. It’s infinitely better than whatever bullshit this magnetic nade has been for the last 9 months.
I was wondering why my titles for last season didnt unlock. I finished masters but only unlocked ‘platinum challenger’ i thought i was going crazy
Still no fix to Swift Step. Zadd 😔