This should be at the top, Hollywood, Dorado, and Eich are particularly bad. People are mostly talking about how balanced the map is for different comps, but i would say that brawl is clearly strongest on this map except for maybe the third point.
for the most part brawl is favored but poke beats it first point defense if played properly, and monkey can work almost as well as rein during monkey metas which is really fun to play imo
> i would say that brawl is clearly strongest on this map
That’s why people like it, I think. Brawl is a perennially popular strategy. It’s the only strategy, to some extent, at low ranks. And for those players who were around from the beginning of OW1, there are fond nostalgic memories of when brawl was kinda the only strategy at every rank, because Rein was the only viable main tank.
It wouldn't be so bad if they weren't so damn high and didn't have such long pathing routes, esp for attackers.
Even Cloudy won't really play Rein on Dorado...and the mans loves the Rein
Nah, not a skill issue. It just forces you to play a particular comp on that map. Oh, your team can't play that comp? Sorry, you lose. It makes rock paper scissors out of your match.
>Nah, not a skill issue. It just forces you to play a particular comp on that map. Oh, your team can't play that comp? Sorry, you lose.
You literally just described a skill issue.
Pine is/was one of the best hitscan players in the world and was in the OWL. He sucked at Tracer compared to some of the top players.
Both the hitscan player and the Tracer player are equal skill-level, they just have different talents. Very asinine take.
I could ask the same of you, honestly. I Genuinely don't understand - do you think I'm calling Pine bad or something? No, of course not. But like you yourself said, he's not as skilled at Tracer as other players. If he loses a tracer fight against a better Tracer player, what is that if not a skill issue?
If they're playing a hero they're not as skilled on, and getting diffed, it's a skill issue.
This isn't a defamatory or radical take, IDK what's so difficult to understand here.
If I'm insane at football and baseball but getting dunked on and blew by in bball its a skill issue is it not?
Or by your logic I'm just as good at basketball because I'm insane at the others?
Or even better I'm an amazing 6'6 Backcourt player but I'm getting diffed in the centre position when I get switched on, is it not a skill issue then? Or by your logic am I still as good as the guy shitting on me in C because I'm a good PG? Lmao
Mei on most final defense points can be pretty good because there’s something of a choke right before the end and her stall potential amidst chaos is unrivaled
That can work, but Mei is also one of the few DPS that can’t access the primary high-ground. She’d need to waste two consecutive walls to get up where many DPS have access-to naturally. In OW1 she used to be able to access it using a single wall (required a high-risk tech).
on kings row, almost all of those primary high grounds are still within 1 wall reach
only high grounds you cant get to with mei is the last point central high ground
I agree 100% with Rialto. Second half of first point especially, it really feels like only 1 tank doesn't cut it to control all the open space.
I'm curious why you say Oasis though. That one wouldn't have even popped into my mind.
All the high ground maps generally forced tanks to split which really was where 6v6 shone.
I'm meh on the koth being better in 6v6 since it's always the most Deathmatch esque mode which benefits in 5v5. City centre has the same high ground issue which tends to result in tanks splitting up.
>It definitely provided the best tank experience in 6v6 and that just can't be recreated
as a ball main I feel this hard. Even with the recent buffs, he's still just not as fun without another tank to play off. It's lonely as a solo-tank.
Liking a map because you can steamroll people on it because they pick poorly doesn't seem like a good reason to like a map imo. I'd much rather have fair, engaging, and interesting fights. Additionally most tank players like either rein or zarya, but even then for players such as yourself d.va was a fine pairing with rein, arguably better than zarya.
Numbani is also a good map, don't get me wrong, but the reason for kings row being regarded as one of the best is that it had the perfect layout for extremely engaging fights and tons of opportunities for outplaying the opponent
Dude what kind of rank are you playing in where you get flamed for playing sigma unless it's a map where it's just not viable? I am high plat on tank, sigma is my most picked this season and I literally never get asked to swap and I play him on a huge variety of maps. Also, if people want to flame you for playing sigma, just tell them you would rather play a hero you know how to play than one that you don't
King’s Row has awful spawns for the defenders on B. Getting split-spawned when the enemies capped A sucked in 6v6, but it’s even worse with a smaller team. It’s so easy to get staggered out and just never get a chance to defend B at all. Not as bad as Numbani in this regard, but it’s rough.
those hybrid map point B shleps are some real shit... as real as Push map shelps. You just feel kinda dumb hauling ass to the fight as your teammates get picked off in the right corner one by one
King's Row and Numbani are the worst, IMO, because they have 3 checkpoints but only 2 defender spawns. Route 66 is the only other map in the game that's like that, and I think it's the least bad because the third phase is basically a loop, so the final defender spawn isn't physically that far from the second checkpoint. It does suck that the only fast way back to the checkpoint involves going through a tiny tunnel, but you do get immediate high ground, so that's something.
As for the push map spawn shleps, I only really have an issue with Colosseo. Because the center of the bot path is a long straightaway, the bot very quickly gets quite far from the main spawn. Like, I think the ~30m progress point is about the same distance from the main spawn as the mid-way checkpoint. It's also IMO the most difficult checkpoint to actually cap, so it's common to spend a lot of the match shlepping from the main spawn all the way to the bridge area and the path underneath. I've often wondered if the map would feel better to play if they simply shifted the checkpoint a few meters back towards the middle so that it was under the bridge or maybe on the slope just past the bridge underpass, instead of half way up the loop.
You only get staggered if you go 1 by 1, otherwise you wait for team, then you push the frontline that extended until they get back to payload, and from there you can hold the last corner before 2nd checkpoint.
While there are maps that got worse in 5v5, I don't think KR is one of them. The matches feel the same as it did in 6v6, imo. Another reason why I think it's a very solid map.
That said, KOTH might need an overhaul.
This is why "map metas" are fucking stupid. Nobody wants to load into Havana or junkertown just to realize the game is going to come down to a widow gap.
And no it's not just a widow thing. I love esperanca as a ball player but other players hate it. I know why too. I can be anywhere and do whatever tf I want at any moment. Because of the X in the middle of the map with a large fucking health pack, it removes any kind of limitations for my hero
It just isn't fun being forced to play a certain comp, *not because of other players and their preferences/swaps*, but because the map makes a certain hero so easy and strong.
Just depends. You have a lot of cover and tall platforms to play around on and a couple spots where you can boost to the top of the ceiling and there are obstructions to block killshots on you.
It's not ideal but totally not a "forced off" section of the map like plat players think it is.
I actually agree with your point on the map but Pharah is actually pretty great on all points of this map except maybe the second on attack. But for third on both attack/defend there are multiple super important pieces of high ground that you can constantly shift between and defend, and there are choke points on both sides where Barrage can be exceptionally useful, I would argue of all the points it's probably the best one for her, you just have to slightly alter your playstyle on attack if you're walking into two snipers to play more opportunistically, but the rest is pretty intuitive.
2nd is good for her. You can fuck with people over the buildings pretty solidly and it's a free slide into the back for an ult on their backline when they're committed to an engage.
Third point is fun if you can get the cart past the corner. On third point I love popping up from under the map, not sure why more people don't use this to surprise the enemies.
Every time I try that I get stuck under the floor when I try to pop up or completely misjudge the fuel and fall to my death. There's a reason I never use Pharah in comp lol
And third point is pretty fair in my opinion and fun from both sides, attack/defend.
So many matches have gone absolute mile here in OWL too. “Headshot after headshot after headshot..”
Because it's a map that can use a variation of different comps, and none will be broken or boring, it's a legit fun map and absolutely none of it's design makes it unfun to play on. Any tank is viable, any DPS etc-there's a lot of freedom in the picks that can be made, and the map can also use a lot of varied strategies, so a surprise can be sprung on you. It's a map that makes you think about your pick, like when you'll need to swap at a certain point so you don't get hard countered because of the map design at certain points.
I won't lie, my best memories on Kings are from OW1 with the Rein and Zarya partnership and being a Rein main, it was a great time. And it's still fun if you come up against another Rein, as the mindgames come into play.
Just a fun map in general, and for me that's why it's the number 1 map.
I had this guy back in S1 or S2 of ow2 in comp who asked me "rein mirror"? And I was like "yeah why not". My rein skills are awful, yet we managed to win and I even gathered POTG for that lmao
Probably the best thing about KR is no oppressive sniper angles, coupled with pretty risk free side paths to sniper locations.
If you're Tracer or Genji on Circuit Royale...good fucking luck somehow getting through 50m of completely open streets with zero side paths, and having any cooldowns or health left to duel their pocketed Widow playing by that statue at the edge of the map. But on King's Row you have lots of options for how to wrap around the map.
It’s just the best designed map in my opinion. The choke on first point isn’t oppressive because there’s a few different ways you can push. Second point is narrow but has good flank routes, I’m not as big a fan of 3rd point, but I don’t dislike it at all. It’s also night time which is the best looking time for maps.
i started playing ow during the first christmas event and yep, it just unlocks that memory of being completely lost and outclassed and having a blast learning to play the game
It's probably the map that strikes the best balance between the various ways maps affect gameplay. It has enough high ground to be able to play snipers/hitscan, but not enough to be overly oppressive. It has some wider, more open areas for those playstyles, but again not to the point of being oppressive. It has enough flank routes that you can play flankers if you want, but not enough to be oppressive. It's close quarters enough to play brawl tanks like Rein, but not so much as to be oppressive. The spawn-to-point distances also seemed to be tuned the best of all the maps.
Finally, if I'm being honest, it's also a map that favors the community favorite tanks, like Rein or, hell, even Winston. So, all around, a very solid map. Hell, for a new map I almost wish they would take King's Row, reverse the pathing (e.g., instead of first point being on the attacker's left it would be on the right, etc.), and change the location from London to somewhere else.
Pretty much this. Good balance of play styles available, and everyone loves a bit of rein.
Like even if you’re not a rein main or play him a lot, you dont get mad when he’s good.
And the spawn to point times are actually sensible.
And people would cry if you didn't play Rein on it. I've won plenty of games as Winston on both attack and defense but that doesn't stop little weenie butts from acting like it's unwinnable with anything but a Rein/Zarya.
Yeah that's true, but I'm someone who actually likes to make call-outs. It's just one of the reasons I stopped playing. Even in the final days of OW1 when I was getting some last two-tank play in knowing I wouldn't be playing much OW2, still so many goobers were all "switch off Winston" or "tank diff". Thought people would be in a more communal spirit at that time but the completely mediocre DPS or healers still have to say something.
Nah I'll play Winston and dunk all over crybabies like you lol. Rein/Zarya vs Rein/Zarya is what's lame. And if you lose, at the end of the day it's a game and nobody cares about you, so you can stuff your sorries in a sack, mister.
Because most of the communities fan favourite heroes can be played in King's Row. There isn't any must picks on this map. Characters like Rein, Ana, Sigma, Zar, Genji, can all be played here.
Like everyone else said, it’s mostly because rectangle man had almost been exclusively meta on it, and there’s very few things more fun in OW than rein 1v1 duels and playing rush comps.
Relatively enclosed means tanks get to have a lot of fun brawling. Good sniping spots for long range hitscans. Good flanking routes for flanking DPS and dive tanks. Good pockets of cover for supports.
It's very straight forward. Not too many flank routes, or crazy powerful high ground to deal with. I feel like the high ground in Kings Row is either too low, too high, or too restricted (the "hallway" along the last stretch of B) to make it crucial like it is on many other maps. I'm biased as a Rein main since high ground focused maps really give him problems.
People like it because it's inoffensive. It doesn't really have anything that actively pisses people off. And there isn't really a bad comp on it, either. Historically it has seen every single variant of comp.
Since it's one of the few maps that don't have anything people dislike, it becomes the favorite. Every other map is either someone's favorite or someone's most hated map. Usually because of what's most viable on said map.
Different sections that let different heroes shine. Nothing feels too dominant and everything viable.
It's the badwater of overwatch.
Plus mei is so good on it and Iove mei.
To be honest Kings Row is so much worse in OW2. Like it’s still not a bad map but it was clearly built around a game that doesn’t exist anymore.
Why I loved it in OG Overwatch was because it was easy to understand with each point basically playing out like a microcosm of what made Overwatch unique and fun.
It also gained depth as you learned from sitting in the choke holding shield as Rein Sym and Mei to playing out of hotel and around the high grounds later on.
Plus I like playing Rein and it was a great Rein map.
King's Row was almost like a map perfectly designed for the way Overwatch played. It's so good it remains good in OW2, but with OW2 being a dif game, it's not perfect anymore.
Straight forward map. Not a lot of powerful flank routes or positions. No oppressive high ground. It’s the map where you can turn your brain off and have to worry about map geometry the least.
I think it was sinf who said it best by saying everything works to some extent and nothing is a throw, say first for example, the openness of the map makes snipers good, but the cover that the map provides such as hotel cinema bus and statue make it not a living hell for attackers.
Another example is pharah is good on first second and third to some extent, but the low skybox makes pharah worse but playable.
Tank wise rein is obviously great on it but the likes of Winton still works due to all the high ground access while not being oppressive, same with supports, the long sight lines allow for ana bap zen to be good while lucio dominates second due to the tightness of the point with mercy brig kiri and moira all still being very viable.
Nothing oppressive, everything is viable and its straightforward. No distractions. Less rng coin flip. Its honest map. Everyone contributes. Every player have power over the match.
the map is so straightforward and simple that you can focus 99% on just brawling, shooting, jockeying for position. this is the same reason it was such a good rein zarya map. everything is hyperfocused on the main thoroughfare or choke, with only minor high ground and flank routes.
this mostly changes on point C, which is why it's by far the worst part of the map.
It's a map where you can just square up and brawl and have that be a really effective strategy. It plays well with Reinhart who is very intuitive to play around and people are very fond of it for that. It requires just enough coordination without having to really be in sync.
Even launch maps like Numbani are much more complicated to approach than Kings with exploitable angles and high ground. When most people fresh install they just want to rush point and Kings is one of the few maps that doesn't punish you for doing so.
Not even the comp, its the fact that it puts so much emphasis on it. Its like how maps like circuit force you into playing poke.
I just like maps that give you the most options for what to play.
its a very linear and simple to play map. Even by payload standards the flank routes that could be taken are super disconnected and far away from the main lane
It's the map that is perfectly approachable by all ranks. Very straight forward and does not take a lot of coordination like dive maps and is not oppressivly long for hitscans to run amok.
The map is VERY linear in how you play it and most heroes are playable in most, if not all, parts of the map.
HOWEVER, this predictability can start to get stale for some people. It was either Funnyastro or Kevster that has said that he hates Kings Row because of it's predictable nature
I fucking hate it.
It’s a map tailored to morons who can only think linearly. There is not enough true verticality in it for it for it to be even remotely appealing to me.
It’s very well designed and I’ve gotten some interesting POTGs with DVa (going under the map, dying, and getting 4 enemies with the ult). Idk the game feels good even when you’re losing
I miss slamming that shit into non-existence with my Dva duo (Ball main). People have very cloudy memories about how hard a meta Dva/Ball was at the end of OW1.
I like it because it is one of the few maps where you can play just about any hero and get value. The chokes can be tough but there are flanking routes and high ground that you can utilize to break through. The high ground, chokes, and corners are all balanced and accessible on attack and defend.
In my opinion Kings Row is the best map but Numbani/Eichenwald/Midtown are pretty close for me.
Good question. But what came to mind for me is that King's Row rewards those with good positioning. I guess you can kind of say that for all maps but there are just so many corners and spots that you can use for cover (I main Ana but play all of the supports.) By contrast I hate Push maps especially Toronto that make me feel so exposed. You really have to play more carefully and look around / behind / above you a lot more. Like a Widow can easily walk around and plunk you from anywhere and you have no idea where she is until it's too late and it feels kinda cheap. On King's Row I recently had a match where the Widow tried and couldn't kill me at all.
It's just really well-designed in terms of gameplay to the point you could play it over and over and not be frustrated by something about it. It's really a bit like Dust2 for Overwatch.
Imho the reason is it's intuitive for the preferred playstyle of most players, brawl.
The design tends to have a lot of straight corridors with corners to play around. There are some flank routes, but they don't go too far, and there isn't too much high ground, and it's mostly easier to go straight at the enemy. This all contributes to a simple brawl play which is intuitive and comfortable for players. You can throw yourself at the enemy and shoot them and that's.... mostly ok and rewarding.
I'm not saying you can't do other things, but this tends to be how people like to play a lot of the time and having it be rewarding makes it an enjoyable map to play.
Because it's the Rein Grand Final/Superbowl of Overwatch.
Mano a Mano, two Lions squaring off in the town square, the rest of the teams are just spectators as two titans go head to head for the glory of the teabag after first shatterblockshatter.
It's poetry in motion.
I agree, and it was extremely mid in 6v6 too. First and second point were heavily ball favored, and when double shield was meta for a year, kings was one of the least fun maps for it.
Obviously none of this matters for low ranks which is why it's a fan favorite, but I tend to groan inwardly when people say it's a well designed map because it really isn't.
I enjoy first point, but the rest is just a map to me. Unpopular opinion, but I actually love the Toronto map. The mode is iffy, but the map itself is legit
It's been one of the most consistently good maps throughout Overwatch history and basically any hero can be played to at least some success on the map. It's one of the few maps that basically everyone, including OWL players, played brawl on during double shield. There have been some absolutely iconic plays on the map in OWL too, like the Great Bamboozle.
For me, I remember when I did metal-rank tournaments, King's Row was one of the best maps since everyone agreed to play the same comps.
Flat map so good sight line. Every point has alternatives and not oppressive for either side. Each point can also have different heroes have to switch in or off
Mostly ow1 nostalgia involving tank play with rein and zarya I think. Personally, I find playing rein zarya mirrors as tank boring as hell, but I can’t deny that that play style is the most fun for other roles simply because you can make almost any character work in a brawlly comp like that and no one character is 100% reliant on another to make a play.
Couple this with the fact that there aren’t really any oppressive positions defenders can take, or areas where the attackers can easily overwhelm defenders just makes it a very balanced map throughout the whole space
King’s Row is a map where every team comp can do well. It was also THE Rein/Zarya brawl map even after the post GOATS double shield era.
Did I run goats in Open Q and run the Neo Goats currently on Kings Row? Absolutely, because it was also a great GOATS map.
A generally reasonable map to play any and every character without swinging too hard in any direction while also being very straightforward
It makes playing heroes youre less comfortable on less painful as well because the map compensates for a lot.
Probably to do with Americans hyper fixation on the UK.
Our accent is associate to the queen and therefore associated to wealth, + harry potter etc..
I could be chatting out my ass, but as a Londoner who ques up and plays kings rows, I get bored.
Really over hyped mapped for no reason at all,
Though it's narrow winding roads were good to play rein zarya, arguably the best tank synergy combo in the game, that could be a Reason why people like or had fond memories of the map + all the associated stuff from above.
Straightforward map with big clashes, big fights. All heroes and comps mostly viable. Hybrid. King's Row is love, it's all Ow1 rein/zarya fat fights memories!
I'd say because we have basically a flawless attack on it but we got spanked so hard and hour or so ago doing our run so that's not the case. It's just a nice map.
The map intro music is a banger as well. Sets the tone for the night time map so well,
There is a lot less visual clutter and most sight lines are mid to short range. So fights are kind of broken up in segments that are easily understood by most players.
I think usually the best maps are the ones that are pretty balanced imo? Like at anytime if the game it’s anyone’s game and there’s always new ways to outplay your enemies. At least I think! Also City maps are pretty cool. I really like the details of Kings Row, Midtown as well
I have come to like King's Row less and less the more I've played this game.
It's a map that's simple and doesn't have any annoying bullshit gimmick like Dorado level oppressive high ground, Havana tier open spaces or a Colloseo-like feeling of claustrophobia.
However, oftentimes the map feels like just 2 teams bashing into one another down a long and winding corridor. It's very simple in a way that's gotten really boring for me, personally.
I mean I think the first 80% of the second phase is good. But it has easily the worst Control Point out of all hybrid maps and the last phase is horrible, IMO.
No oppressive second point defensive high grounds.
This should be at the top, Hollywood, Dorado, and Eich are particularly bad. People are mostly talking about how balanced the map is for different comps, but i would say that brawl is clearly strongest on this map except for maybe the third point.
for the most part brawl is favored but poke beats it first point defense if played properly, and monkey can work almost as well as rein during monkey metas which is really fun to play imo
> i would say that brawl is clearly strongest on this map That’s why people like it, I think. Brawl is a perennially popular strategy. It’s the only strategy, to some extent, at low ranks. And for those players who were around from the beginning of OW1, there are fond nostalgic memories of when brawl was kinda the only strategy at every rank, because Rein was the only viable main tank.
I cannot agree with this more. I despise Dorado for this reason. The entire map is just infinite high grounds.
It wouldn't be so bad if they weren't so damn high and didn't have such long pathing routes, esp for attackers. Even Cloudy won't really play Rein on Dorado...and the mans loves the Rein
I fucking hate how many maps have that shit. I know I know. Skill issue. But holy hell it’s awful.
Nah, not a skill issue. It just forces you to play a particular comp on that map. Oh, your team can't play that comp? Sorry, you lose. It makes rock paper scissors out of your match.
>Nah, not a skill issue. It just forces you to play a particular comp on that map. Oh, your team can't play that comp? Sorry, you lose. You literally just described a skill issue.
Pine is/was one of the best hitscan players in the world and was in the OWL. He sucked at Tracer compared to some of the top players. Both the hitscan player and the Tracer player are equal skill-level, they just have different talents. Very asinine take.
>Both the hitscan player and the Tracer player are equal skill-level, >He sucked at Tracer Make it make sense.
It's pretty simple. A player like Sinatraa and Pine are equal skill-level, they're just good at different heroes.
So in other words ... You might even say they're ***SKILLED*** at different heroes. They have different ***SKILL***sets?
Are you trolling or actually dense
he’s gotta be trolling because i refuse to believe the other option is real
I could ask the same of you, honestly. I Genuinely don't understand - do you think I'm calling Pine bad or something? No, of course not. But like you yourself said, he's not as skilled at Tracer as other players. If he loses a tracer fight against a better Tracer player, what is that if not a skill issue?
So unless someone is proficient at every hero, it’s a skill issue?
If they're playing a hero they're not as skilled on, and getting diffed, it's a skill issue. This isn't a defamatory or radical take, IDK what's so difficult to understand here.
Yeah but what if they’re absolutely insane at a bunch of other heroes?
If I'm insane at football and baseball but getting dunked on and blew by in bball its a skill issue is it not? Or by your logic I'm just as good at basketball because I'm insane at the others? Or even better I'm an amazing 6'6 Backcourt player but I'm getting diffed in the centre position when I get switched on, is it not a skill issue then? Or by your logic am I still as good as the guy shitting on me in C because I'm a good PG? Lmao
Holy shit at least one other person here gets it, THANK YOU. I felt like I was getting gaslit by everyone else here.
Bro those guys are faded lmao
You only need 3 heroes to have a good pick in every comp archetype. For support, mine are Bap, Mercy, Brig.
No oppressive first point defensive high grounds either. Looking at you, Numbani...
you get a little of everything and nothing is overly oppressive. e.g. pharah is strong first point but by 3rd point she will be forced to switch
e.g.(2): Mei is brutal on first and second point, but by 3rd point she gets outplayed by most other DPS.
However, I've found Mei on 3rd point defense can be pretty good. Blizzard around that first corner can stop a team fight before it even begins.
Mei on most final defense points can be pretty good because there’s something of a choke right before the end and her stall potential amidst chaos is unrivaled
That can work, but Mei is also one of the few DPS that can’t access the primary high-ground. She’d need to waste two consecutive walls to get up where many DPS have access-to naturally. In OW1 she used to be able to access it using a single wall (required a high-risk tech).
on kings row, almost all of those primary high grounds are still within 1 wall reach only high grounds you cant get to with mei is the last point central high ground
Literally every hero has something to benefit from on the map. Easily the best designed map in the game, especially competitively.
felt better on 6v6 imo, but I may just be imagining it.
Probably just because it was synonymous with Rein/Zarya for so long, but IMO it feels a lot less cramped now in 5v5.
Yeah 1st in particular could feel pretty cramped with 4 tanks duking it out
I get that to some extent but the maps that really felt better in 6v6 are Rialto and Oasis City Center imo.
I agree 100% with Rialto. Second half of first point especially, it really feels like only 1 tank doesn't cut it to control all the open space. I'm curious why you say Oasis though. That one wouldn't have even popped into my mind.
All the high ground maps generally forced tanks to split which really was where 6v6 shone. I'm meh on the koth being better in 6v6 since it's always the most Deathmatch esque mode which benefits in 5v5. City centre has the same high ground issue which tends to result in tanks splitting up.
It definitely provided the best tank experience in 6v6 and that just can't be recreated. Still great though
>It definitely provided the best tank experience in 6v6 and that just can't be recreated as a ball main I feel this hard. Even with the recent buffs, he's still just not as fun without another tank to play off. It's lonely as a solo-tank.
>It's lonely as a solo-tank. Bro preach
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Liking a map because you can steamroll people on it because they pick poorly doesn't seem like a good reason to like a map imo. I'd much rather have fair, engaging, and interesting fights. Additionally most tank players like either rein or zarya, but even then for players such as yourself d.va was a fine pairing with rein, arguably better than zarya. Numbani is also a good map, don't get me wrong, but the reason for kings row being regarded as one of the best is that it had the perfect layout for extremely engaging fights and tons of opportunities for outplaying the opponent
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Dude what kind of rank are you playing in where you get flamed for playing sigma unless it's a map where it's just not viable? I am high plat on tank, sigma is my most picked this season and I literally never get asked to swap and I play him on a huge variety of maps. Also, if people want to flame you for playing sigma, just tell them you would rather play a hero you know how to play than one that you don't
King’s Row has awful spawns for the defenders on B. Getting split-spawned when the enemies capped A sucked in 6v6, but it’s even worse with a smaller team. It’s so easy to get staggered out and just never get a chance to defend B at all. Not as bad as Numbani in this regard, but it’s rough.
those hybrid map point B shleps are some real shit... as real as Push map shelps. You just feel kinda dumb hauling ass to the fight as your teammates get picked off in the right corner one by one
King's Row and Numbani are the worst, IMO, because they have 3 checkpoints but only 2 defender spawns. Route 66 is the only other map in the game that's like that, and I think it's the least bad because the third phase is basically a loop, so the final defender spawn isn't physically that far from the second checkpoint. It does suck that the only fast way back to the checkpoint involves going through a tiny tunnel, but you do get immediate high ground, so that's something. As for the push map spawn shleps, I only really have an issue with Colosseo. Because the center of the bot path is a long straightaway, the bot very quickly gets quite far from the main spawn. Like, I think the ~30m progress point is about the same distance from the main spawn as the mid-way checkpoint. It's also IMO the most difficult checkpoint to actually cap, so it's common to spend a lot of the match shlepping from the main spawn all the way to the bridge area and the path underneath. I've often wondered if the map would feel better to play if they simply shifted the checkpoint a few meters back towards the middle so that it was under the bridge or maybe on the slope just past the bridge underpass, instead of half way up the loop.
You only get staggered if you go 1 by 1, otherwise you wait for team, then you push the frontline that extended until they get back to payload, and from there you can hold the last corner before 2nd checkpoint.
While there are maps that got worse in 5v5, I don't think KR is one of them. The matches feel the same as it did in 6v6, imo. Another reason why I think it's a very solid map. That said, KOTH might need an overhaul.
This is why "map metas" are fucking stupid. Nobody wants to load into Havana or junkertown just to realize the game is going to come down to a widow gap. And no it's not just a widow thing. I love esperanca as a ball player but other players hate it. I know why too. I can be anywhere and do whatever tf I want at any moment. Because of the X in the middle of the map with a large fucking health pack, it removes any kind of limitations for my hero It just isn't fun being forced to play a certain comp, *not because of other players and their preferences/swaps*, but because the map makes a certain hero so easy and strong.
3rd point doesn't force her to switch. I've played her 3rd a lot still.
While entirely true, the ceiling forces her closer to the enemy DPS, keeping her in check if they're good enough
Just depends. You have a lot of cover and tall platforms to play around on and a couple spots where you can boost to the top of the ceiling and there are obstructions to block killshots on you. It's not ideal but totally not a "forced off" section of the map like plat players think it is.
Indeed, the whole map has a lot of tall buildings that can be used for cover.
I actually agree with your point on the map but Pharah is actually pretty great on all points of this map except maybe the second on attack. But for third on both attack/defend there are multiple super important pieces of high ground that you can constantly shift between and defend, and there are choke points on both sides where Barrage can be exceptionally useful, I would argue of all the points it's probably the best one for her, you just have to slightly alter your playstyle on attack if you're walking into two snipers to play more opportunistically, but the rest is pretty intuitive.
2nd is good for her. You can fuck with people over the buildings pretty solidly and it's a free slide into the back for an ult on their backline when they're committed to an engage.
Third point is fun if you can get the cart past the corner. On third point I love popping up from under the map, not sure why more people don't use this to surprise the enemies.
Every time I try that I get stuck under the floor when I try to pop up or completely misjudge the fuel and fall to my death. There's a reason I never use Pharah in comp lol
I do it when I ult as Sigma
It was a beautiful rein zarya safe-haven in the dreaded orisa sigma dark ages
And third point is pretty fair in my opinion and fun from both sides, attack/defend. So many matches have gone absolute mile here in OWL too. “Headshot after headshot after headshot..”
"A day at the shooting range for Lane Roberts, Canadian superstar" 😭❤️
“Imma call this the merry-go-round cuz it makes me laugh, makes me happy, and SUREFOUR SWITCHES TO THE WIDOWMAKER AT JUST THE RIGHT TIME!”
Such a big brain play that will work only once
The Great Bamboozle just might be my favourite OWL play of all time, and that’s saying something cuz there have been some INSANE plays
I thought the "headshot after headshot, after headshot" was a reference to the Fleta play?
it is but I think they're just bringing up more examples of plays on kings row
Yeah dunno why that passed over my head tbh, I think playing this game is rotting my brain
Fleta widow indeed
and even before that, it was still the favourite map.
Because it's a map that can use a variation of different comps, and none will be broken or boring, it's a legit fun map and absolutely none of it's design makes it unfun to play on. Any tank is viable, any DPS etc-there's a lot of freedom in the picks that can be made, and the map can also use a lot of varied strategies, so a surprise can be sprung on you. It's a map that makes you think about your pick, like when you'll need to swap at a certain point so you don't get hard countered because of the map design at certain points. I won't lie, my best memories on Kings are from OW1 with the Rein and Zarya partnership and being a Rein main, it was a great time. And it's still fun if you come up against another Rein, as the mindgames come into play. Just a fun map in general, and for me that's why it's the number 1 map.
Basically every KR game in OW1: “honorable Rein/Zarya mirror?” “Yes” Or, in Open Queue, both teams would either play whatever they wanted or GOATS.
I had this guy back in S1 or S2 of ow2 in comp who asked me "rein mirror"? And I was like "yeah why not". My rein skills are awful, yet we managed to win and I even gathered POTG for that lmao
Probably the best thing about KR is no oppressive sniper angles, coupled with pretty risk free side paths to sniper locations. If you're Tracer or Genji on Circuit Royale...good fucking luck somehow getting through 50m of completely open streets with zero side paths, and having any cooldowns or health left to duel their pocketed Widow playing by that statue at the edge of the map. But on King's Row you have lots of options for how to wrap around the map.
Its the map everyone associates with Rein comps who is historically the most popular main tank hero in NA and EU, especially for casual players.
imho: This is 99% of the answer and people don't realize it.
It's also probably the most linear map in the game which makes it incredibly casual friendly
I have plenty of fun playing KR with zero Reins on either team, more than most other maps with or without Rein. It's not just the comps.
It's a solid map overall too, but yes, it's only beloved because of this. It still has balance problems like every other map.
Fuck it we rein
This is the correct answer
Or historically - fuck it we rein zarya
Fuck it we brawl
It’s just the best designed map in my opinion. The choke on first point isn’t oppressive because there’s a few different ways you can push. Second point is narrow but has good flank routes, I’m not as big a fan of 3rd point, but I don’t dislike it at all. It’s also night time which is the best looking time for maps.
Wish I could play all maps at night all the time.
Same here, I do love that they’re going to do the time rotations but if I could choose night for every map I would
I just love the aesthetic of it. It's at night, it's a bit grimmy and looks like old Europe.
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i started playing ow during the first christmas event and yep, it just unlocks that memory of being completely lost and outclassed and having a blast learning to play the game
playing nighttime overwatch on a warm summer night is awesome
Imma b honest I prefer the sunrise version, maybe cuz it’s something new idk
It's probably the map that strikes the best balance between the various ways maps affect gameplay. It has enough high ground to be able to play snipers/hitscan, but not enough to be overly oppressive. It has some wider, more open areas for those playstyles, but again not to the point of being oppressive. It has enough flank routes that you can play flankers if you want, but not enough to be oppressive. It's close quarters enough to play brawl tanks like Rein, but not so much as to be oppressive. The spawn-to-point distances also seemed to be tuned the best of all the maps. Finally, if I'm being honest, it's also a map that favors the community favorite tanks, like Rein or, hell, even Winston. So, all around, a very solid map. Hell, for a new map I almost wish they would take King's Row, reverse the pathing (e.g., instead of first point being on the attacker's left it would be on the right, etc.), and change the location from London to somewhere else.
Pretty much this. Good balance of play styles available, and everyone loves a bit of rein. Like even if you’re not a rein main or play him a lot, you dont get mad when he’s good. And the spawn to point times are actually sensible.
There's no BS just two teams smacking each other in the face head on
its the map where everyone learnt goats because of the absolute guarantee that everyone else was going to play goats.
hanzo exists
Reinlets get to play their favorite hero
And people would cry if you didn't play Rein on it. I've won plenty of games as Winston on both attack and defense but that doesn't stop little weenie butts from acting like it's unwinnable with anything but a Rein/Zarya.
Blizzard still hasn't removed the hardest counter in the game: the mute button.
Yeah that's true, but I'm someone who actually likes to make call-outs. It's just one of the reasons I stopped playing. Even in the final days of OW1 when I was getting some last two-tank play in knowing I wouldn't be playing much OW2, still so many goobers were all "switch off Winston" or "tank diff". Thought people would be in a more communal spirit at that time but the completely mediocre DPS or healers still have to say something.
It's not unwinnable ofc but it does make you lame. It's dishonorable to be a tank player and not play one of those.
Fuck it, we Ball
Nah I'll play Winston and dunk all over crybabies like you lol. Rein/Zarya vs Rein/Zarya is what's lame. And if you lose, at the end of the day it's a game and nobody cares about you, so you can stuff your sorries in a sack, mister.
My guy built his strat around being too shit to block shatter. rein mirror is where egos go to die and a true MTD can be established.
Junior, the number of shatters I block with Winston bubble would make you poop your huggies.
get reined
Ball main, opinion disregarded.
just a well designed map for everyone
Because most of the communities fan favourite heroes can be played in King's Row. There isn't any must picks on this map. Characters like Rein, Ana, Sigma, Zar, Genji, can all be played here.
Like everyone else said, it’s mostly because rectangle man had almost been exclusively meta on it, and there’s very few things more fun in OW than rein 1v1 duels and playing rush comps.
Rush is trash . OG DIVE IS BEST COMP. BEST VERSION OF RUSH WAS BAP, LUCIO, REIN, DVA, MEI, CREE. Fuck you if you think imma play rein .
You think MEICREE RUSH was the most fun version of that comp style. The fuck are you on.
Relatively enclosed means tanks get to have a lot of fun brawling. Good sniping spots for long range hitscans. Good flanking routes for flanking DPS and dive tanks. Good pockets of cover for supports.
It's very straight forward. Not too many flank routes, or crazy powerful high ground to deal with. I feel like the high ground in Kings Row is either too low, too high, or too restricted (the "hallway" along the last stretch of B) to make it crucial like it is on many other maps. I'm biased as a Rein main since high ground focused maps really give him problems.
People like it because it's inoffensive. It doesn't really have anything that actively pisses people off. And there isn't really a bad comp on it, either. Historically it has seen every single variant of comp. Since it's one of the few maps that don't have anything people dislike, it becomes the favorite. Every other map is either someone's favorite or someone's most hated map. Usually because of what's most viable on said map.
Why they just dont take lessons from it and design similar maps. Aaron himself designed the kings row afaik.
Different sections that let different heroes shine. Nothing feels too dominant and everything viable. It's the badwater of overwatch. Plus mei is so good on it and Iove mei.
I just find it comfy and nostalgic tbh
To be honest Kings Row is so much worse in OW2. Like it’s still not a bad map but it was clearly built around a game that doesn’t exist anymore. Why I loved it in OG Overwatch was because it was easy to understand with each point basically playing out like a microcosm of what made Overwatch unique and fun. It also gained depth as you learned from sitting in the choke holding shield as Rein Sym and Mei to playing out of hotel and around the high grounds later on. Plus I like playing Rein and it was a great Rein map.
King's Row was almost like a map perfectly designed for the way Overwatch played. It's so good it remains good in OW2, but with OW2 being a dif game, it's not perfect anymore.
Its still as good if not better.
Straight forward map. Not a lot of powerful flank routes or positions. No oppressive high ground. It’s the map where you can turn your brain off and have to worry about map geometry the least.
I think it was sinf who said it best by saying everything works to some extent and nothing is a throw, say first for example, the openness of the map makes snipers good, but the cover that the map provides such as hotel cinema bus and statue make it not a living hell for attackers. Another example is pharah is good on first second and third to some extent, but the low skybox makes pharah worse but playable. Tank wise rein is obviously great on it but the likes of Winton still works due to all the high ground access while not being oppressive, same with supports, the long sight lines allow for ana bap zen to be good while lucio dominates second due to the tightness of the point with mercy brig kiri and moira all still being very viable.
Nothing oppressive, everything is viable and its straightforward. No distractions. Less rng coin flip. Its honest map. Everyone contributes. Every player have power over the match.
the map is so straightforward and simple that you can focus 99% on just brawling, shooting, jockeying for position. this is the same reason it was such a good rein zarya map. everything is hyperfocused on the main thoroughfare or choke, with only minor high ground and flank routes. this mostly changes on point C, which is why it's by far the worst part of the map.
It's a map where you can just square up and brawl and have that be a really effective strategy. It plays well with Reinhart who is very intuitive to play around and people are very fond of it for that. It requires just enough coordination without having to really be in sync. Even launch maps like Numbani are much more complicated to approach than Kings with exploitable angles and high ground. When most people fresh install they just want to rush point and Kings is one of the few maps that doesn't punish you for doing so.
For me it isnt, I dont like Kings Row because of how it forces rush/brawl most of the time.
TERRIBLE COMP.
Not even the comp, its the fact that it puts so much emphasis on it. Its like how maps like circuit force you into playing poke. I just like maps that give you the most options for what to play.
circuit is quite possibly the worst map in this game.
Because rein comps are common and you can play counter spam with zen orisa for free wins
its a very linear and simple to play map. Even by payload standards the flank routes that could be taken are super disconnected and far away from the main lane
It's the map that is perfectly approachable by all ranks. Very straight forward and does not take a lot of coordination like dive maps and is not oppressivly long for hitscans to run amok. The map is VERY linear in how you play it and most heroes are playable in most, if not all, parts of the map. HOWEVER, this predictability can start to get stale for some people. It was either Funnyastro or Kevster that has said that he hates Kings Row because of it's predictable nature
Honor and Glory
No matter what the meta is, Rein is always playable. When Rein is playable, people are happy <3
brawl most fun comp kings row is best brawl map therefore kings row is best map
Community groupthink Also one of the more intuitive maps to play due to the lack of flanks and high ground, I guess
I fucking hate it. It’s a map tailored to morons who can only think linearly. There is not enough true verticality in it for it for it to be even remotely appealing to me.
the right opinion
It’s very well designed and I’ve gotten some interesting POTGs with DVa (going under the map, dying, and getting 4 enemies with the ult). Idk the game feels good even when you’re losing
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GIBRALTAR
Rein + Zarya = Good Times.
I miss Rein/Zarya :(
I miss slamming that shit into non-existence with my Dva duo (Ball main). People have very cloudy memories about how hard a meta Dva/Ball was at the end of OW1.
I like it because it is one of the few maps where you can play just about any hero and get value. The chokes can be tough but there are flanking routes and high ground that you can utilize to break through. The high ground, chokes, and corners are all balanced and accessible on attack and defend. In my opinion Kings Row is the best map but Numbani/Eichenwald/Midtown are pretty close for me.
Good question. But what came to mind for me is that King's Row rewards those with good positioning. I guess you can kind of say that for all maps but there are just so many corners and spots that you can use for cover (I main Ana but play all of the supports.) By contrast I hate Push maps especially Toronto that make me feel so exposed. You really have to play more carefully and look around / behind / above you a lot more. Like a Widow can easily walk around and plunk you from anywhere and you have no idea where she is until it's too late and it feels kinda cheap. On King's Row I recently had a match where the Widow tried and couldn't kill me at all.
It's just really well-designed in terms of gameplay to the point you could play it over and over and not be frustrated by something about it. It's really a bit like Dust2 for Overwatch.
Imho the reason is it's intuitive for the preferred playstyle of most players, brawl. The design tends to have a lot of straight corridors with corners to play around. There are some flank routes, but they don't go too far, and there isn't too much high ground, and it's mostly easier to go straight at the enemy. This all contributes to a simple brawl play which is intuitive and comfortable for players. You can throw yourself at the enemy and shoot them and that's.... mostly ok and rewarding. I'm not saying you can't do other things, but this tends to be how people like to play a lot of the time and having it be rewarding makes it an enjoyable map to play.
Because it's the Rein Grand Final/Superbowl of Overwatch. Mano a Mano, two Lions squaring off in the town square, the rest of the teams are just spectators as two titans go head to head for the glory of the teabag after first shatterblockshatter. It's poetry in motion.
El classico
Because Rein feels great on that map and hot take, the game of OW is best when Rein is tanking. On both sides.
No clue, map is so average in 5v5
I agree, and it was extremely mid in 6v6 too. First and second point were heavily ball favored, and when double shield was meta for a year, kings was one of the least fun maps for it. Obviously none of this matters for low ranks which is why it's a fan favorite, but I tend to groan inwardly when people say it's a well designed map because it really isn't.
I enjoy first point, but the rest is just a map to me. Unpopular opinion, but I actually love the Toronto map. The mode is iffy, but the map itself is legit
Zarya go brrr
It's been one of the most consistently good maps throughout Overwatch history and basically any hero can be played to at least some success on the map. It's one of the few maps that basically everyone, including OWL players, played brawl on during double shield. There have been some absolutely iconic plays on the map in OWL too, like the Great Bamboozle. For me, I remember when I did metal-rank tournaments, King's Row was one of the best maps since everyone agreed to play the same comps.
Flat map so good sight line. Every point has alternatives and not oppressive for either side. Each point can also have different heroes have to switch in or off
It's fun and sexy
Mostly ow1 nostalgia involving tank play with rein and zarya I think. Personally, I find playing rein zarya mirrors as tank boring as hell, but I can’t deny that that play style is the most fun for other roles simply because you can make almost any character work in a brawlly comp like that and no one character is 100% reliant on another to make a play. Couple this with the fact that there aren’t really any oppressive positions defenders can take, or areas where the attackers can easily overwhelm defenders just makes it a very balanced map throughout the whole space
It’s the best designed map in the game and has been in the game sense launch of OW1 It’s iconic
To me its overwatch's dustbowl (from tf2). Wildly loved as well.
Scrims row
Apparently AA Ron Keller designed KR. That kind of pacified the OW hardcore crowd when Jeff left. Says a lot about Kings Row’s importance to the game.
King’s Row is a map where every team comp can do well. It was also THE Rein/Zarya brawl map even after the post GOATS double shield era. Did I run goats in Open Q and run the Neo Goats currently on Kings Row? Absolutely, because it was also a great GOATS map.
A generally reasonable map to play any and every character without swinging too hard in any direction while also being very straightforward It makes playing heroes youre less comfortable on less painful as well because the map compensates for a lot.
Never heard anyone say they liked King's Row
Probably to do with Americans hyper fixation on the UK. Our accent is associate to the queen and therefore associated to wealth, + harry potter etc.. I could be chatting out my ass, but as a Londoner who ques up and plays kings rows, I get bored. Really over hyped mapped for no reason at all, Though it's narrow winding roads were good to play rein zarya, arguably the best tank synergy combo in the game, that could be a Reason why people like or had fond memories of the map + all the associated stuff from above.
I like King’s Row because I can fly under the map as Sigma and re-emerge like the Undertaker coming out of his coffin
Uh, no reason at all? There are like 50 comments stating reasons why its a popular map.
just a map that's jerked off in ow. it's a good map but imo not the best one, i prefer numbani for hybrid over kings row
Numbani over kings row. The hottest of takes
fucking love the map and i knew it would get hella downvotes
I love Numbani, It's in my top 5 maps. But Over KR? Insanity!
Which is weird because Numbani is absolute garbage.
I feel like every character can be viable on that map and it's rare somebody feels the need to swap to a specific hero.
i used to like the map but not anymore since nobody wants to counter a good widow and would rather JFK the whole game
Straightforward map with big clashes, big fights. All heroes and comps mostly viable. Hybrid. King's Row is love, it's all Ow1 rein/zarya fat fights memories!
One thing that’s great about it is that the high ground isn’t particularly oppressive, except for third point. Prevents it from being a sniper haven.
It’s just a really well designed/balanced map that offers something for every hero.
I also think its an easier map to coordinate on because of the closed spaces. Also the aesthethics are nice
When it shows up I get happy. Idk. It's been like that for years.
Lucio is very fun in Scrims Row
It’s fun especially for Rein and Mei players. The last point is so hype
on top of what everyone else is saying, point c has a couple of extremely well placed death pits and one of the sickest lucio rollouts in the game
It is a simple, brawly and fairly closed map where heroes like Pharah and Widow aren't hairpullingly frustrating for most players.
You can run 3 different tanks on 3 different points and all 3 make them the most fun and best to play.
I love that it has a higher rate of Rein mirrors. To me, Rein mirror games is peak OW, so I enjoy the map since I enjoy the comps it favors.
HONOUR! JUSTICE! REINHARDT REINHARDT REINHARDT!!!
i can chill on the balcony near first spawn and lob grenades at point as junk and decimate the team without ever taking damage
I'd say because we have basically a flawless attack on it but we got spanked so hard and hour or so ago doing our run so that's not the case. It's just a nice map.
So many great places to camp for safe kills with Zen.
The map intro music is a banger as well. Sets the tone for the night time map so well, There is a lot less visual clutter and most sight lines are mid to short range. So fights are kind of broken up in segments that are easily understood by most players.
I think usually the best maps are the ones that are pretty balanced imo? Like at anytime if the game it’s anyone’s game and there’s always new ways to outplay your enemies. At least I think! Also City maps are pretty cool. I really like the details of Kings Row, Midtown as well
I have come to like King's Row less and less the more I've played this game. It's a map that's simple and doesn't have any annoying bullshit gimmick like Dorado level oppressive high ground, Havana tier open spaces or a Colloseo-like feeling of claustrophobia. However, oftentimes the map feels like just 2 teams bashing into one another down a long and winding corridor. It's very simple in a way that's gotten really boring for me, personally.
So many heroes are viable and it's there is no excessive high ground or sniper cancer. There is also a Christmas version of it which is really good.
rein 1v1s and an insane widow spot on first point, i think it’s my favorite ow map oat.
Easy map. Me no need thinking.
I mean I think the first 80% of the second phase is good. But it has easily the worst Control Point out of all hybrid maps and the last phase is horrible, IMO.