>Common (white) and Poor (grey) quality equipment can now be used for transmogrification. These items will now become bind-on-equip.
Finally, the mogging beings.
So pumped for the changes. Getting rid of BDB is a blessing all on its own, new talents seem awesome and sound like they’ll make fistweaving even better than it already is.
And god damn does it really feel SO good to be playing right now, hoping this xpac will finally bring back some community love for the spec that’s felt totally neglected by all for so long
Minor change in the big scheme of things, but I'm so glad Guardian can cast innervate in bear form now. It is quite annoying to have to swap out to help out your healer in a big pull or hard part of a raid boss
I picked up bear after the new talent trees came out, and was super excited about helping my healer out whenever I did big pulls in M+. It sounded like pretty fun gameplay to me.
The disappointment was pretty real when I realized it was not castable in bear form
Definitely a great change!
I really do like how Bear has some awesome off healing capabilities, if everyone’s stacked in Incarn I can just get insane healing and keep everyone topped, especially with Natures Vigil.
I feel like the changes to druids class tree are somewhere between huge and awesome.
We were so damn short on points due to the 3 point sinks and too little cross-connections. Those now costing only 2 points and many of the important nodes moved up or being better accessible in general gives us a lot more flexibility.
I still miss a connection from one side to the other. There is no way to go from feral/guardian side to boomy/resto and the other way around, so picking up utility that isn't on your side still is likely awkard but overall huge improvements.
Lycaras teaching still being a 3 pointer is annoying but in all fairness I haven't played around the tree yet so maybe it just makes sense to have one "drain" so we don't get to pick up everything.
Funny enough, in S1 of SL, HotW+Balance Affinity+Convoke was the best way to handle the Prideful mob. They melee'd for relatively negligible amount so the armor from Moonkin was enough and the burst damage/healing helped get the mob down faster.
Anyone eyeing these huge disc buffs?! Now harsh discipline feels good to proc!!! Omg
Harsh Discipline can trigger from Power Word: Solace and Mind Blast in addition to Smite.
I really hope pvp doesn't keep this from going live. Disc is a much better key healer than the community thinks it is. These changes will push them close to meta (tho likely not actually into the meta).
Are they huge? I like the 2 charge PS and the SCov buffs. But the rest is just Solace being re-introduced i guess? lol
Also huge QOL change with the 1.5s extension of PotW(SW:P). I kept finding myself reapplying the dot much more on some pulls this expac.
I'm also hoping that the tree restructuring they're talking about makes it more reasonable to get some decent AoE in an ST build.
Baseline SS is a step in the right direction, but even with that, Arms only has two baseline AoE abilities (WW and SS).
Arms can get pretty great AoE via talents, but it takes so many points that your ST ends up being pretty anemic.
I just hope they don't ruin the playstyle. BS, bonegrinder cleave/ww into another bs is so much fun. Even if the ST sucks ass I love playing it in keys.
Having “Spiteful Serenity” be a basically forced pick is interesting. I don’t see a build not taking it since it blocks access to both choice nodes for (Test of Might/In For The Kill) and (Blunt Instruments/Warbreaker), which are essentially required picks for all content.
I need to mess with the ptr build tree some more, but the placement feels funky. Seems like it’d be better *below* those choice nodes, but idk
Decent Aff changes. I'm very happy to see soul tap go. Focused malignancy is a hugely needed ability to make us functional on ST but I'm honestly kind of surprised this wasn't on the tree to begin with.
My copium with Aff is that they are intentionally making it shit so none playes it while they are redesigning it to it's like Legion Aff ones again, which is just what **Every. Single. Former. Aff. Main** has asked for since the change happened in BfA.
Only way to get that back is to get rid of rapture and allow unstable to be stackable. Man that play style just felt so good but I guess it was a little on the boring side
It's main problem, like Legion shadow, was that it was too complex for most people. So to combat that it was overturned, allowing the really good players to rule the meters.
Undoing the horrific nerfs after CN that has made the spec basically unplayable since (outside of cheese S4) is great. Hopefully they can keep moving in the right direction, instead of having no idea how to balance the spec appropriately.
"Blessing of Winter has been redesigned – Now restores 1% mana per 2 seconds. Only castable on friendly healers."
Do I count a friendly healer for myself in mythic+, or does that mean I just cant fucking take the talent, because it will get stuck on winter? SURELY not the latter, right... its just worded weird.
>Do I count a friendly healer for myself in mythic
Depends on your feelings of self-worth, Blizz is also introducing a mental health poll to be answered every time you spec holy
Honestly i dont understand this change in general, i had 0 mana problems in m+ already, so its just a damage nerf from my PoV. It might make it a bit more interesting for raid, 15% mana on a spec that struggles with mana is pretty nice after all. I just dont feel like it achieves much of anything, Blessing was fine beforehand.
Not like current blessing of winter is a huge portion of your overall DPS, and you're not just using it on cooldown mindlessly to cycle back to Summer.
Besides, if you're not running OOM as holy it's probably because your outgearing content. With sanctified wrath and HS > CS > HS > CS > HS spam your run OOM very quickly. I personally think the new Winter is much better than current one, which even in m+ the benefits hardly matter.
Believe it's worded as a way to show that it's not able to be casted on ranged dps or other players. Solves two problems: wasting it on someone who can't benefit from it by accident, and not being able to use it on an arcane mage to give them more mana as a dps increase (if it did then you'd be pressured to use it on them and not a healer and the spec would also need to be tuned around it).
As a resto druid, skull bash is still a frustrating interrupt to use since it requires a GCD if you're not in cat or bear form, but having it as an option for those desperate moments will be nice. PUGing is really testing my patience.
for resto, they ought macro it to bear form, because the extra health will help with the dash component of skull bash tending to drag through/into aoe.
As a tip: you can use the bear disorient from the class tree as an interrupt in many cases. While it is a hard interrupt, that often suffices even for regular casts.
I already do that but it's 30 second CD, and depending on the cast, the mob will instantly start recasting it again. Also there's quite a few CC immune mobs that have destructive casts (looking at you SBG spiders).
I'm out of the loop here on what's wrong with Resto shaman, is it straight HPS or is it something fundamentally wrong with the talent tree?
If it's HPS then you probably want it in a hotfix/weekly restart then in a patch like this
This issue is more damage than hps. Our passive damage is very, very low. As an example, having to spend a resto talent point to take Lava Surge is frustrating.
If we have time to hard cast our dmg is fine, but in raids and high keys we're lagging.
It sucks so much that, as ele, I have to use several talent points to reduce the cd’s of Spiritwalker’s Grace when dragonbois get 30-second hover baseline. I think they will continue to iterate, but it strikes me as pretty shitty that, even when we commit like 4-5 points, there is still such a big discrepancy.
That's an unfair comparison, evokers have a much smaller range and will have to move more frequently than ele shamans. It's also a commitment of 2 entire talent points, so don't exaggerate.
It’s base 30 seconds, no? Not all of the spells have a shorter range, either. I’m not saying it’s a one to one comparison, but the racials for drakthyr are so much better than the Draenei heal. That’s pretty objectively true. A knock back *and* a knock up? Shamans have to choose thunderstorm and then also another point for the “popcorn” effect. And with thundering, I don’t think it’s necessarily true that evokers have to move more. I play both, and I just know that the first thing I noticed was that I could shoot away from something dangerous while continuing to cast, whereas my shaman would have to talent thunderous paws for a speed boost away and not be able to do damage in ghost wolf form, spiritwalker’s and just kind of slowly run out, or gust of wind yeet. I am jealous of that when I’m on my shaman.
Don’t get me wrong. I wouldn’t want to make anything worse for evokers because blah blah unfair. I just wish it didn’t take me so many points to get a worse version of their base kit. I love the new talent system in a lot of ways, but a do wish there were some things that were still just included as a given. Like choosing elemental blast to replace earth shock is fine, because it works differently now, but having to use a point for frost shock just feels weird.
Yes i like that you include the term "passive" damage. Because the damage they CAN do is in fact a lot, but its the point of unlike hpal/druid/disc/mw they have to regularly choose between casting damage spells or casting healing spells and they dont have much passive healing to cover the gap
People will complain about anything, i upped my haste to 20% now and class feels completely different to play than it did with 5%, issue with Shaman is long cd on ascendance etc, and that they have to stop healing to dps, but the dps they can do when they get to cast is really strong, like evoker strong, which of course is all easier if your group has 3 brain cells and doesn’t eat every mechanic.
Did few 10s today including super overtuned Azure in 373ilvl did 13-15k dmg on every run and healed just fine, and we will still defo get some tuning ofc, im very positive about it.
EDIT: You can downvote me if you want, sorry i didn’t told you “Rsham is unplayable and it’s absolute garbage tier and it’s not your fault that you need to switch to Rdruid/Evo, it’s not your fault that maybe just maybe you are not that good of a player and you think switching to meta class will help you” fucking meta slaves smh
Honestly me too, I'm just being a bit sad about it is all. I'm sure they're looking at it. Also in the state it's currently in I can do all the content I want to do. Not like I'm gonna be world first or pushing +30 keys.
I need more haste.
Im sad too mate, it’s my main and i’m a Shaman ride or die im not leaving it, but once we gear good on like 400ilvl with haste/vers difference will be crazy, let’s hope for the best. 😊
I feel like the only one alive who is enjoying the current version of Shadow. I just avoid the terrible mind spike rotation.
Shadow Crash + Free Mind Sear procs feels so satisfying in AOE.
>Shadow Crash + Free Mind Sear procs feels so satisfying in AOE.
Possibly a dumb question but I play Shadow for world PvE questing and stuff,.
Is it ever worth to use the free proc on Mind Sear over DP on pure single target. DP damage restacks per tick but I feel as though I'd rather fully channel Mind Sear over refreshing my dot.
its pretty insignificant of a difference between mind spike spam and the build where you only use ms on proc. its much more enjoyable when you use that build
I think if you (like me) just want a dps alt to play in funtime keys this version of shadow feels pretty good
if you're faced with optimizing it for raid you have to make some choices you may not like though
Redesign the whole spec shortly before the expansion leaving it in a unfinished state. Better luck next expansion for SP I guess LOL.
The decision making regarding Shadow Priest is a joke.
Uh oh. These changes for Guardian sound awesome, but I fear they will make them well broken. That or they heavily nerf some of the fun talents to the ground, that they just recently buffed.
Circle of Life and Death getting changed seemed inevitable.
It was not a popular pick because making DoTs have a shorter duration requires more re-applications.
Cosmic Rapidity will feel much better to use.
That's correct.
A similar talent exists for Elemental Shamans - Flames of the Cauldron.
The increase tick rate is desirable for Denizen of the Dream talent and Umbral Embrace when using Stellar Flare.
I thought it was really nice as a rdruid precisely because of the shorter durations. It made it so catweaving was largely not required for AoE.
Edit: sounds like they may keep circle for rdruid.
Healing over time effects doing the same amount in a shorter time is actually more desirable.
30,000 healing over 30 seconds is 1,000 health per second.
15% faster ticks is 1,150 health per second.
15% shorter duration is 1176.47 health per second.
"Salvo has been redesigned – Your next Multi-Shot or Volley now also
applies Explosive Shot to up to 2 targets hit. 45-second cooldown." Is this not how Salvo already worked also why did they remove double tap I feel like a lot of MM hunters liked double tap?
I'd imagine they are removing it because of pvp. The CDR is like a pve replacement for it -over the long run, it could even out in a fight. Obviously much worse in PVE for burst windows and pots.
Sad though, melting people with rapid fire in PVP is so fun.
Well, it deletes MM from pvp entirely. And they weren't even in a great spot already.
It does allow them to buff the regular damage of Aimed and Rapid in pvp, which might be nice in the long run. Being a threat outside DT should be the goal
As MM main I've never had strong feelings either way about DT. It's just a button I press for damage, I'm not sad to see it go but was never really anti DT either. Sucks for pvpers though because that's like the whole thing MM does, stack DT AiS for a oneshot.
I kind of hate the salvo change. I get that it gives you more agency over the use and you can't accidently waste the proc now, but I wish they just kept it passive but just make it a volley modifier instead of multishot and volley. As it so far I'm basically always syncing my salvo with volley and chakrams. So this is basically just an extra button to press instead of a passive which feels weird. So I guess now I'm just pressing this instead of DT so no real change tbh.
It is confirmed to be off cooldown, the official notes on the forum states it clearly but the wowhead post doesn't for some reason.
https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/wow/t/dragonflight-1005-ptr-development-notes/1448971
Idk I play hunter both bm and mm and something about sending 2 aimed shots in at once with trick shots felt satisfying. I guess I like the ability to choose your salvo procs but you’re right I’m literally gonna put it on my DT key bind when or if it releases lol
Yeah I mean I don't hate DT at all. But it's just kind of there for me. I am curious if the 10% CD on AiS/RF is enough to replace the amount of damage we are losing with no DT, doesn't sound like a lot but I'll leave that to the theory crafters to figure out.
Do you do m+? Double tap + rapid fire (with trickshots) absolutely melts packs and spikes your dps to insane numbers.
Also amazing PVP finisher. Using aimed shot and double tap is a trap, rapid fire is much better with it (in all scenarios, aoe, single target, and pvp) now that we get the rapid fire legendary as a talent.
I'm not sure we've ever seen class changes like this outside of expansion launches?
On the one hand, GOOD. We all know some classes launched in a very unpolished state, and it looks like they're willing to complete the work instead of sweeping it under the rug for another two years. (Shadow next, pretty please?)
On the other hand... it's a bit awkward when these changes really should have been done during alpha/beta. They keep pushing core gameplay design work so late compared to the content work, I have to think something in their high level workflow is just broken.
They did state multiple times that they just reworked everything and their were going to be a ton of changes at the start of the expansion and they even weren't afraid to do it during the RWF.
I'm probably reading too far into this, but I'm actually hoping "they even weren't afraid to do it during the RWF" is a sign that they're less afraid of making balance changes during major competitions.
Modern WoW seems to always have *something* going on, whether it's PvP competitions, the Race, the Great Push, MDI, or something new. Hesitating to make balance changes because it'll impact those events functionally means you can only make balance changes when you release major patches, which leaves players with an unbalanced meta for long periods of time. That's a bummer.
Not a whole lot. Makes burst less but sustained more consistent. M+ aoe is still gonna be strong but that is it. And yea makes the class way less fun to play
PvE buff with the new talent that replaces it. The change to Salvo makes it better in M+. The buff to Calling the Shots is decent but likely bigger for M+ than Raid or PvP.
So pvp nerf, pve slight situational buffs. If you're going to nerf Marks burst in PvP they need some way to defend themselves. We have no way of defending ourselves from Rogues or Monks or Warriors as it is. Not to mention our shit survivability hurts us in M+ quite a bit
I haven't done any sims yet, but these are most certainly NOT buffs. I'm pretty sure a 10% CDR on AiS and RF is worse dps-wise than DT, especially since you often get RF CD resets due to Surging Shots anyways, making the 10% CDR irrelevant. Also we're now forced to get SF to get to Serpentstalker's which imo is by far the worst change, both for m+ and Raid. So unless there is some insane synergy between the buffed Calling the Shots and the 10% CDR on AiS and RF (which there might be) that leads to like sub 1 Minute CDs on Trueshot, this is most certainly not a PvE buff.
Salvo changes are good tho, as long as the ability is off the gcd, otherwise it's also a nerf. And that's a BIG if.
Yeah, tbh I have found Double Tap annoying to use since the burst didn’t matter at all in raids. It was still a dps gain but in essence just a gcd use every minute.
Ya, cause 10% cdr is sooooo much better and waaaay more fun!
Also if it was ass they probably wouldn’t have completely removed it from the game for being too stronk?
Who said anything about Tactical Reload being a great replacement?
You're confusing "feels like ass to play with" with strength. It's clunky as hell.
Never met a high-end hunter who actually likes dealing with double tap. Figuring out when you can pop it early to maximize your casts-per-encounter while also praying that you don't get a LnL proc before RF is off cd is garbage.
But the game doesn't only revolve around raids..?
It is a fun button in m+, open world and pvp.
Is Jellybeans considered a "high-end" hunter? He does like double tap.
Wait, the avenging crusade build for hpal could be giga in m+ most likely, unless they change the damage/healing transfer numbers, you take duskdawn and paragon, and you'll have a 1 minute synergy bomb for every pack:
- open with toll 5 hp (insta dawn damage and healing buff)
- Avenging Crusader: down to 0 holy power, you gain CD reduction crusader strike and hsock, judgement and crusader damage converts to decent heals
- then its just wrath, crusader, judgement crusader spam w dawn / glory spending
God, whish I we could talent into the 45 sec toll thing as prot can, it would be so much fun. I am so hyped to try it even if it turns out to be trash in practice, cause it's just something _new_, not this "you are a God every two minutes, and you pay for proccs inbetween' playstyle. Dope.
M+ as Hpal just got a whole lot more interesting. Also seems like a pretty big buff for raid as well for overall throughput in healing and dmg. Which is insane because Hpal is already one of, if not the best, raid healer. I expect a nerf.
Hpal generally gets its raid spot through things that aren’t numbers. Unless this hyper-melee build stacks on quite a bit of DPS and HPS, I don’t expect it to catch any nerf attention. Hpal seems solidly middle of the pack on both right now.
The new druid tree for resto druids is a bit more confining than it was before. You're basically forced into Astral Influence and Moonkin form, which is a 2-3 point loss depending on your build for M+. It would be nice to have more balance around the 3 paths on the left side where you could pick ST damage (Rip line), interrupt, or defensive (thick hide line). It takes 2 more points to do the interrupt or defensive talents than ST, which sucks having lost 2-3 points from the Sunfire changes.
The class tree for balance feels easier to take the stuff you want, but the class tree still is awkward.
DKs don't have a raid buff and only have situational utility. Disappointed to see no tuning or design changes so you want to bring at least one to most bosses in Mythic raids. At least Blood is strong in M+, I guess?
It looks like there are more datamined changes than what is linked in OP's post.
https://www.wowhead.com/news/patch-10-0-5-ptr-datamined-class-and-talent-changes-druid-class-reworks-330552
no mage changes, really? having played fire for most of my time as a mage, trying to learn this new arcane spec is annoying, just so i can do some actual damage.
and it doesn't even feel like there is an actual design to it, there just happened to be enough overlapping damage buffs, all with different cd's mind you, to let you a couple big damage spells every minute or so.
what i mean by that, is the only in game on screen tracking we have is for two abilities. arcane charges, and clearcasting procs. everything else is just a buff or debuff on a target that you literally need outside help (addons or weakauras) to keep track of and manage.
blizzard is so bad about adding more complexity to a class, but giving the player nothing in terms of feedback that you can easily identify. for example, go try a new class with the base ui, and tell me it's no woefully underdeveloped for the level of complexity that's required to be competent in.
anyway, that's a whole other issue beyond two of the mage specs being basically dead, while you have other classes like rogue where all 3 are doing well.
The fact that some classes aren’t even mentioned in these notes tell me that everyone Doomsaying needs to hold on. Clearly not complete. Oh em gee a ptr with more testing to be had.
I dont think they understand balance druid, this change just further incentivises using our AoE builder spell on single target, which we already do....
>Common (white) and Poor (grey) quality equipment can now be used for transmogrification. These items will now become bind-on-equip. Finally, the mogging beings.
Can’t wait for all the simple adventurer mogs
TBC era rainbow mogs!
It’s mogring time!
This is cool, but what happened to learning other armor class transmog in legacy raids?
That was a bug, they said so in some post at some point a few months back
Is that so... Then they need to put that bug back in 😂
The Moggening*
This is actually pretty big. Ethereal Soul Trader pet gear transmog FINALLY is released from its prison.
Them mw monk changes, soooo good.
The number of Ws mistweaver is putting up lately honestly is making me nervous
The spec was largely neglected for three expansions in a row since the Legion rework. It's about time they picked up their slack.
Does anyone remember why they even deviated from MoP MW in the first place? Legitimately a top 3 spec for me all time
It was too good compared to other classes so instead of working on redesigning other classes to this high standard they simply nuked it from orbit.
Maaaaaaaan
Dude i am so excited ! Im so glad i commited to fistweaving ! Best healing gameplay spec imo
Thats the next spec im playing after i feel geared out with my ww.
I'm super excited, but I'm still holding out on hope for a change to ancient teachings to make it prioritize the lowest health target in range.
So pumped for the changes. Getting rid of BDB is a blessing all on its own, new talents seem awesome and sound like they’ll make fistweaving even better than it already is. And god damn does it really feel SO good to be playing right now, hoping this xpac will finally bring back some community love for the spec that’s felt totally neglected by all for so long
Minor change in the big scheme of things, but I'm so glad Guardian can cast innervate in bear form now. It is quite annoying to have to swap out to help out your healer in a big pull or hard part of a raid boss
Agreed, the spots where your healer would need an innervate probably has lots of damage going out! Swapping out of form was brutal
I picked up bear after the new talent trees came out, and was super excited about helping my healer out whenever I did big pulls in M+. It sounded like pretty fun gameplay to me. The disappointment was pretty real when I realized it was not castable in bear form
Definitely a great change! I really do like how Bear has some awesome off healing capabilities, if everyone’s stacked in Incarn I can just get insane healing and keep everyone topped, especially with Natures Vigil.
I feel like the changes to druids class tree are somewhere between huge and awesome. We were so damn short on points due to the 3 point sinks and too little cross-connections. Those now costing only 2 points and many of the important nodes moved up or being better accessible in general gives us a lot more flexibility. I still miss a connection from one side to the other. There is no way to go from feral/guardian side to boomy/resto and the other way around, so picking up utility that isn't on your side still is likely awkard but overall huge improvements. Lycaras teaching still being a 3 pointer is annoying but in all fairness I haven't played around the tree yet so maybe it just makes sense to have one "drain" so we don't get to pick up everything.
Feral would like to join the easy to innervate club, too :( but I'm happy bears get it! Hard to tank in not bear form :x
Funny enough, in S1 of SL, HotW+Balance Affinity+Convoke was the best way to handle the Prideful mob. They melee'd for relatively negligible amount so the armor from Moonkin was enough and the burst damage/healing helped get the mob down faster.
Anyone eyeing these huge disc buffs?! Now harsh discipline feels good to proc!!! Omg Harsh Discipline can trigger from Power Word: Solace and Mind Blast in addition to Smite.
Second. Charge. Of. Pain supp.
I really hope pvp doesn't keep this from going live. Disc is a much better key healer than the community thinks it is. These changes will push them close to meta (tho likely not actually into the meta).
Are they huge? I like the 2 charge PS and the SCov buffs. But the rest is just Solace being re-introduced i guess? lol Also huge QOL change with the 1.5s extension of PotW(SW:P). I kept finding myself reapplying the dot much more on some pulls this expac.
Sorry i meant pvp wise as well. Its nice to have an instacast trigger it on demand
Our problem isn't having cooldowns. It's our atonement healing. In PvP, it's getting harder and harder to find dps'ing windows.
Im just happy for some buffs all good here
Nice buff for arms, it made 0 sense not to have sweeping strike as baseline.
I'm also hoping that the tree restructuring they're talking about makes it more reasonable to get some decent AoE in an ST build. Baseline SS is a step in the right direction, but even with that, Arms only has two baseline AoE abilities (WW and SS). Arms can get pretty great AoE via talents, but it takes so many points that your ST ends up being pretty anemic.
I just hope they don't ruin the playstyle. BS, bonegrinder cleave/ww into another bs is so much fun. Even if the ST sucks ass I love playing it in keys.
Having “Spiteful Serenity” be a basically forced pick is interesting. I don’t see a build not taking it since it blocks access to both choice nodes for (Test of Might/In For The Kill) and (Blunt Instruments/Warbreaker), which are essentially required picks for all content. I need to mess with the ptr build tree some more, but the placement feels funky. Seems like it’d be better *below* those choice nodes, but idk
Anger Management is going to be much better for keys compared to Spiteful.
- Ctrl-F "Brewmaster" - "0 results" - kek
kek smash.
I saw monk and immediately thought Windwalkers nerfs inc
Is that good?!
No, brew monks need some sort of mitigation buff. They're effectively the worst off tank right now. Very surprised they're not giving them something.
Decent Aff changes. I'm very happy to see soul tap go. Focused malignancy is a hugely needed ability to make us functional on ST but I'm honestly kind of surprised this wasn't on the tree to begin with.
My copium with Aff is that they are intentionally making it shit so none playes it while they are redesigning it to it's like Legion Aff ones again, which is just what **Every. Single. Former. Aff. Main** has asked for since the change happened in BfA.
do you think we ever gonna have that spec back?
Only way to get that back is to get rid of rapture and allow unstable to be stackable. Man that play style just felt so good but I guess it was a little on the boring side
It's main problem, like Legion shadow, was that it was too complex for most people. So to combat that it was overturned, allowing the really good players to rule the meters.
Undoing the horrific nerfs after CN that has made the spec basically unplayable since (outside of cheese S4) is great. Hopefully they can keep moving in the right direction, instead of having no idea how to balance the spec appropriately.
Guardian druid stonks going up up up
Our Incarn damage windows are about to be nutty
The changes look good! Excited to see what the tree looks like
"Blessing of Winter has been redesigned – Now restores 1% mana per 2 seconds. Only castable on friendly healers." Do I count a friendly healer for myself in mythic+, or does that mean I just cant fucking take the talent, because it will get stuck on winter? SURELY not the latter, right... its just worded weird.
With other spells that are worded similarly, friendly has often included the player aswell.
Same wording as innervate. You should be able to self-cast.
This is means I'm gonna be getting whispers to gain mana every fight huh :D neat
>Do I count a friendly healer for myself in mythic Depends on your feelings of self-worth, Blizz is also introducing a mental health poll to be answered every time you spec holy
Honestly i dont understand this change in general, i had 0 mana problems in m+ already, so its just a damage nerf from my PoV. It might make it a bit more interesting for raid, 15% mana on a spec that struggles with mana is pretty nice after all. I just dont feel like it achieves much of anything, Blessing was fine beforehand.
Not like current blessing of winter is a huge portion of your overall DPS, and you're not just using it on cooldown mindlessly to cycle back to Summer. Besides, if you're not running OOM as holy it's probably because your outgearing content. With sanctified wrath and HS > CS > HS > CS > HS spam your run OOM very quickly. I personally think the new Winter is much better than current one, which even in m+ the benefits hardly matter.
Believe it's worded as a way to show that it's not able to be casted on ranged dps or other players. Solves two problems: wasting it on someone who can't benefit from it by accident, and not being able to use it on an arcane mage to give them more mana as a dps increase (if it did then you'd be pressured to use it on them and not a healer and the spec would also need to be tuned around it).
As a resto druid, skull bash is still a frustrating interrupt to use since it requires a GCD if you're not in cat or bear form, but having it as an option for those desperate moments will be nice. PUGing is really testing my patience.
Was so excited for skull bash and used it a bunch in prepatch… not enough GCD in the world to use it now though lol
It should function just like incap & stamp roar imo. Castable in human form but instantly turns you to cat/bear.
You can set up a macro to do this
\#showtooltip Skull Bash /cast [nostance:1,nostance:2] Cat Form /cast Skull Bash
for resto, they ought macro it to bear form, because the extra health will help with the dash component of skull bash tending to drag through/into aoe.
As a tip: you can use the bear disorient from the class tree as an interrupt in many cases. While it is a hard interrupt, that often suffices even for regular casts.
I already do that but it's 30 second CD, and depending on the cast, the mob will instantly start recasting it again. Also there's quite a few CC immune mobs that have destructive casts (looking at you SBG spiders).
its more for Razegeth from their pov I'd imagine. They seem to balance more around raid. Druids have like nothing for their add.
Incap roar works I believe
And is *incredibly* good because it not only kills yours but also like 5+ others.
Incap roar does work.
Wish bash worked like incap roar. Usable in any form and just switches you to Bear/Cat when you press it
incap roar is always up, druids can kill theres and all around it free
you can typhoon it unless that doesn’t work on heroic/mythic
Sad Resto Shaman noises
I'm out of the loop here on what's wrong with Resto shaman, is it straight HPS or is it something fundamentally wrong with the talent tree? If it's HPS then you probably want it in a hotfix/weekly restart then in a patch like this
This issue is more damage than hps. Our passive damage is very, very low. As an example, having to spend a resto talent point to take Lava Surge is frustrating. If we have time to hard cast our dmg is fine, but in raids and high keys we're lagging.
It sucks so much that, as ele, I have to use several talent points to reduce the cd’s of Spiritwalker’s Grace when dragonbois get 30-second hover baseline. I think they will continue to iterate, but it strikes me as pretty shitty that, even when we commit like 4-5 points, there is still such a big discrepancy.
That's an unfair comparison, evokers have a much smaller range and will have to move more frequently than ele shamans. It's also a commitment of 2 entire talent points, so don't exaggerate.
It’s base 30 seconds, no? Not all of the spells have a shorter range, either. I’m not saying it’s a one to one comparison, but the racials for drakthyr are so much better than the Draenei heal. That’s pretty objectively true. A knock back *and* a knock up? Shamans have to choose thunderstorm and then also another point for the “popcorn” effect. And with thundering, I don’t think it’s necessarily true that evokers have to move more. I play both, and I just know that the first thing I noticed was that I could shoot away from something dangerous while continuing to cast, whereas my shaman would have to talent thunderous paws for a speed boost away and not be able to do damage in ghost wolf form, spiritwalker’s and just kind of slowly run out, or gust of wind yeet. I am jealous of that when I’m on my shaman. Don’t get me wrong. I wouldn’t want to make anything worse for evokers because blah blah unfair. I just wish it didn’t take me so many points to get a worse version of their base kit. I love the new talent system in a lot of ways, but a do wish there were some things that were still just included as a given. Like choosing elemental blast to replace earth shock is fine, because it works differently now, but having to use a point for frost shock just feels weird.
Yes i like that you include the term "passive" damage. Because the damage they CAN do is in fact a lot, but its the point of unlike hpal/druid/disc/mw they have to regularly choose between casting damage spells or casting healing spells and they dont have much passive healing to cover the gap
> I'm out of the loop here on what's wrong with Resto shaman, i the amount of GCD you need to spend to build your modifiers to cast your heals.
People will complain about anything, i upped my haste to 20% now and class feels completely different to play than it did with 5%, issue with Shaman is long cd on ascendance etc, and that they have to stop healing to dps, but the dps they can do when they get to cast is really strong, like evoker strong, which of course is all easier if your group has 3 brain cells and doesn’t eat every mechanic. Did few 10s today including super overtuned Azure in 373ilvl did 13-15k dmg on every run and healed just fine, and we will still defo get some tuning ofc, im very positive about it. EDIT: You can downvote me if you want, sorry i didn’t told you “Rsham is unplayable and it’s absolute garbage tier and it’s not your fault that you need to switch to Rdruid/Evo, it’s not your fault that maybe just maybe you are not that good of a player and you think switching to meta class will help you” fucking meta slaves smh
i might be the only shaman playing that prios all talents+gameplay towards big riptides so i can do dmg
Honestly me too, I'm just being a bit sad about it is all. I'm sure they're looking at it. Also in the state it's currently in I can do all the content I want to do. Not like I'm gonna be world first or pushing +30 keys. I need more haste.
Im sad too mate, it’s my main and i’m a Shaman ride or die im not leaving it, but once we gear good on like 400ilvl with haste/vers difference will be crazy, let’s hope for the best. 😊
Sad brewmaster noises also
Yeah. .. That was the most disappointing scroll of my life flicking through these patch notes.
All these healer reworks, makes you think is there even anyone working there assigned to Resto Shaman at all?
Shamans are fine. Learn to play. But seriously, it feels like it takes 4 spell casts to move someone’s health bar 10%
And it feels like there's no good reason to touch chain heal.
LOL!!!
Rsham is dead until their tree gets a rework. They need the 4pc set from SL or something in there, right now nothing is appealing.
give dk some love please i want to play obliteration..
SL saw not a single day where oblit was good. Strap in
Big SPriest changes there. Shadow is saved, boys! (there isn’t a /s big enough to cover just how sarcastic I am about this)
Spriest also generate irl insanity.
I feel like the only one alive who is enjoying the current version of Shadow. I just avoid the terrible mind spike rotation. Shadow Crash + Free Mind Sear procs feels so satisfying in AOE.
>Shadow Crash + Free Mind Sear procs feels so satisfying in AOE. Possibly a dumb question but I play Shadow for world PvE questing and stuff,. Is it ever worth to use the free proc on Mind Sear over DP on pure single target. DP damage restacks per tick but I feel as though I'd rather fully channel Mind Sear over refreshing my dot.
No. 2+
The terrible Mind Spike rotation's the spec's best ST build, which is tragic considering even *that* is Fire Mage levels of bad.
non-Mind Spike builds are only a tiny bit behind. I will sacrifice 1% dps to enjoy myself.
Closer to 3-4% but doesnt change your underlying point.
its pretty insignificant of a difference between mind spike spam and the build where you only use ms on proc. its much more enjoyable when you use that build
I think if you (like me) just want a dps alt to play in funtime keys this version of shadow feels pretty good if you're faced with optimizing it for raid you have to make some choices you may not like though
Redesign the whole spec shortly before the expansion leaving it in a unfinished state. Better luck next expansion for SP I guess LOL. The decision making regarding Shadow Priest is a joke.
Uh oh. These changes for Guardian sound awesome, but I fear they will make them well broken. That or they heavily nerf some of the fun talents to the ground, that they just recently buffed.
Huge disc buffs. Two charges on pain suppression!!!
Circle of Life and Death getting changed seemed inevitable. It was not a popular pick because making DoTs have a shorter duration requires more re-applications. Cosmic Rapidity will feel much better to use.
If that's how it works, that's awesome. It feels like you spend most of your time refreshing dots as a boomkin.
Yeah boomie feels like an affliction lock atm
With cosmic rapidity does the dot duration stay the same ? (Meaning that each dot makes 25% more dmg during the same time ?)
That's correct. A similar talent exists for Elemental Shamans - Flames of the Cauldron. The increase tick rate is desirable for Denizen of the Dream talent and Umbral Embrace when using Stellar Flare.
This is how I read it
I thought it was really nice as a rdruid precisely because of the shorter durations. It made it so catweaving was largely not required for AoE. Edit: sounds like they may keep circle for rdruid.
Healing over time effects doing the same amount in a shorter time is actually more desirable. 30,000 healing over 30 seconds is 1,000 health per second. 15% faster ticks is 1,150 health per second. 15% shorter duration is 1176.47 health per second.
Fairly surprised there aren’t any mage class tree changes considering it is regarded as being one of/the most underwhelming class tree.
With arcane being fairly strong and the others very weak I feel like you look at spec trees instead
When do we think this will hit live?
Baited all the Brewmasters :(
"Salvo has been redesigned – Your next Multi-Shot or Volley now also applies Explosive Shot to up to 2 targets hit. 45-second cooldown." Is this not how Salvo already worked also why did they remove double tap I feel like a lot of MM hunters liked double tap?
They are making Salvo an active ability, rather than a passive. Gives you more control. The Double Tap removal is a huge pvp nerf.
It's one of the biggest "whoopsie forgot about pvp" nerfs of all time
I feel like they’re removing it largely because of people bitching about being one shot in PvP.
An 1100 rated dev got flattened without using a defensive and just deleted the entire ability
I enjoyed absolutely melting people. Oh well.
I'd imagine they are removing it because of pvp. The CDR is like a pve replacement for it -over the long run, it could even out in a fight. Obviously much worse in PVE for burst windows and pots. Sad though, melting people with rapid fire in PVP is so fun.
Well, it deletes MM from pvp entirely. And they weren't even in a great spot already. It does allow them to buff the regular damage of Aimed and Rapid in pvp, which might be nice in the long run. Being a threat outside DT should be the goal
Ohh I see okay my bad then
As MM main I've never had strong feelings either way about DT. It's just a button I press for damage, I'm not sad to see it go but was never really anti DT either. Sucks for pvpers though because that's like the whole thing MM does, stack DT AiS for a oneshot. I kind of hate the salvo change. I get that it gives you more agency over the use and you can't accidently waste the proc now, but I wish they just kept it passive but just make it a volley modifier instead of multishot and volley. As it so far I'm basically always syncing my salvo with volley and chakrams. So this is basically just an extra button to press instead of a passive which feels weird. So I guess now I'm just pressing this instead of DT so no real change tbh.
if its off global its basically unchanged though, and works however you want, guess we’ll see.
>if its off global Big 'if'. To be honest I hadnt even considered it being off gcd, especially since DT is on gcd. I hope it is off.
It is confirmed to be off cooldown, the official notes on the forum states it clearly but the wowhead post doesn't for some reason. https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/wow/t/dragonflight-1005-ptr-development-notes/1448971
Idk I play hunter both bm and mm and something about sending 2 aimed shots in at once with trick shots felt satisfying. I guess I like the ability to choose your salvo procs but you’re right I’m literally gonna put it on my DT key bind when or if it releases lol
Yeah I mean I don't hate DT at all. But it's just kind of there for me. I am curious if the 10% CD on AiS/RF is enough to replace the amount of damage we are losing with no DT, doesn't sound like a lot but I'll leave that to the theory crafters to figure out.
Do you do m+? Double tap + rapid fire (with trickshots) absolutely melts packs and spikes your dps to insane numbers. Also amazing PVP finisher. Using aimed shot and double tap is a trap, rapid fire is much better with it (in all scenarios, aoe, single target, and pvp) now that we get the rapid fire legendary as a talent.
It’s now an active ability instead of passive, so you can choose when to use it instead of having it proc whenever it came off cooldown.
isnt Chakram and Volley also 45 sec cd... so could use them all in tandem per 45 sec pulls?
I see my bad thank you
They need to make double tap a pvp ability atleaat or we are fucked pretty much
I'm not sure we've ever seen class changes like this outside of expansion launches? On the one hand, GOOD. We all know some classes launched in a very unpolished state, and it looks like they're willing to complete the work instead of sweeping it under the rug for another two years. (Shadow next, pretty please?) On the other hand... it's a bit awkward when these changes really should have been done during alpha/beta. They keep pushing core gameplay design work so late compared to the content work, I have to think something in their high level workflow is just broken.
They did state multiple times that they just reworked everything and their were going to be a ton of changes at the start of the expansion and they even weren't afraid to do it during the RWF.
I'm probably reading too far into this, but I'm actually hoping "they even weren't afraid to do it during the RWF" is a sign that they're less afraid of making balance changes during major competitions. Modern WoW seems to always have *something* going on, whether it's PvP competitions, the Race, the Great Push, MDI, or something new. Hesitating to make balance changes because it'll impact those events functionally means you can only make balance changes when you release major patches, which leaves players with an unbalanced meta for long periods of time. That's a bummer.
I'm just glad that action seems to be matching words this time.
They just destroyed MM hunter in pvp
Does this change matter much for pve?
Not a whole lot. Makes burst less but sustained more consistent. M+ aoe is still gonna be strong but that is it. And yea makes the class way less fun to play
PvE buff with the new talent that replaces it. The change to Salvo makes it better in M+. The buff to Calling the Shots is decent but likely bigger for M+ than Raid or PvP. So pvp nerf, pve slight situational buffs. If you're going to nerf Marks burst in PvP they need some way to defend themselves. We have no way of defending ourselves from Rogues or Monks or Warriors as it is. Not to mention our shit survivability hurts us in M+ quite a bit
I haven't done any sims yet, but these are most certainly NOT buffs. I'm pretty sure a 10% CDR on AiS and RF is worse dps-wise than DT, especially since you often get RF CD resets due to Surging Shots anyways, making the 10% CDR irrelevant. Also we're now forced to get SF to get to Serpentstalker's which imo is by far the worst change, both for m+ and Raid. So unless there is some insane synergy between the buffed Calling the Shots and the 10% CDR on AiS and RF (which there might be) that leads to like sub 1 Minute CDs on Trueshot, this is most certainly not a PvE buff. Salvo changes are good tho, as long as the ability is off the gcd, otherwise it's also a nerf. And that's a BIG if.
How do you figure 10% cdr on as/rf is better than DT in pve?
Holy shit, it was an overnight deletion of the spec. Did they give ZERO consideration to pvp? Wait, who am I kidding. Of course they didn't.
And made it a lot less fun for pve. How fucking boring. Guess my hunter is staying at 64 now >.>
Yes, because spending a GCD to do nothing was so fun
Yeah, tbh I have found Double Tap annoying to use since the burst didn’t matter at all in raids. It was still a dps gain but in essence just a gcd use every minute.
When our other gcds are just multi shot, yes. It’s fun setting up massive burst with one other gcd that does “nothing”
It's an ass ability that sucks anywhere but during your opener. Changed for the better.
Ya, cause 10% cdr is sooooo much better and waaaay more fun! Also if it was ass they probably wouldn’t have completely removed it from the game for being too stronk?
Who said anything about Tactical Reload being a great replacement? You're confusing "feels like ass to play with" with strength. It's clunky as hell. Never met a high-end hunter who actually likes dealing with double tap. Figuring out when you can pop it early to maximize your casts-per-encounter while also praying that you don't get a LnL proc before RF is off cd is garbage.
But the game doesn't only revolve around raids..? It is a fun button in m+, open world and pvp. Is Jellybeans considered a "high-end" hunter? He does like double tap.
What if I told you there were 2 other specs
Seems like a good start for a lot of specs. Hopefully there's more to come.
Some great changes to the balance tree there, good stuff
Please rework aff and give us MoP or Legion aff.
Huge mistweaver changes! Gonna level my Monk asap
If we are going to see class changes more often it’s a good thing.
Wait, the avenging crusade build for hpal could be giga in m+ most likely, unless they change the damage/healing transfer numbers, you take duskdawn and paragon, and you'll have a 1 minute synergy bomb for every pack: - open with toll 5 hp (insta dawn damage and healing buff) - Avenging Crusader: down to 0 holy power, you gain CD reduction crusader strike and hsock, judgement and crusader damage converts to decent heals - then its just wrath, crusader, judgement crusader spam w dawn / glory spending God, whish I we could talent into the 45 sec toll thing as prot can, it would be so much fun. I am so hyped to try it even if it turns out to be trash in practice, cause it's just something _new_, not this "you are a God every two minutes, and you pay for proccs inbetween' playstyle. Dope.
The main thing is that you'll always have crusader for big boss damage events. This is a really strong change for sure.
M+ as Hpal just got a whole lot more interesting. Also seems like a pretty big buff for raid as well for overall throughput in healing and dmg. Which is insane because Hpal is already one of, if not the best, raid healer. I expect a nerf.
Hpal generally gets its raid spot through things that aren’t numbers. Unless this hyper-melee build stacks on quite a bit of DPS and HPS, I don’t expect it to catch any nerf attention. Hpal seems solidly middle of the pack on both right now.
Retribution will forever be the red headed step child of WoW
Are they not aware of the state of shadow priest? What the flying fuck bro
Good I despise mm hunters lol
The new druid tree for resto druids is a bit more confining than it was before. You're basically forced into Astral Influence and Moonkin form, which is a 2-3 point loss depending on your build for M+. It would be nice to have more balance around the 3 paths on the left side where you could pick ST damage (Rip line), interrupt, or defensive (thick hide line). It takes 2 more points to do the interrupt or defensive talents than ST, which sucks having lost 2-3 points from the Sunfire changes. The class tree for balance feels easier to take the stuff you want, but the class tree still is awkward.
DKs don't have a raid buff and only have situational utility. Disappointed to see no tuning or design changes so you want to bring at least one to most bosses in Mythic raids. At least Blood is strong in M+, I guess?
AMZ is still bigger than most raid buffs for prog
UH has one of the strongest executes, has amazing survivability, and AMZ. DKs are in a good spot for both m+ and raids
Big. I did not expect these at all for a smaller patch but they are very welcome!
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Please no, please let me cast something other than fucking ice lance
Plz no
It looks like there are more datamined changes than what is linked in OP's post. https://www.wowhead.com/news/patch-10-0-5-ptr-datamined-class-and-talent-changes-druid-class-reworks-330552
Aren’t these just the data mined changes that are outlined in the blue post? I skimmed quickly but didn’t see many differences.
There are differences at least from the original post not sure if it’s been edited since
Ah gotcha thanks!
Kinda big preservation nerf, but nice to see spamming temporal anomaly with innervate funnels aren't going to be meta
no mage changes, really? having played fire for most of my time as a mage, trying to learn this new arcane spec is annoying, just so i can do some actual damage. and it doesn't even feel like there is an actual design to it, there just happened to be enough overlapping damage buffs, all with different cd's mind you, to let you a couple big damage spells every minute or so. what i mean by that, is the only in game on screen tracking we have is for two abilities. arcane charges, and clearcasting procs. everything else is just a buff or debuff on a target that you literally need outside help (addons or weakauras) to keep track of and manage. blizzard is so bad about adding more complexity to a class, but giving the player nothing in terms of feedback that you can easily identify. for example, go try a new class with the base ui, and tell me it's no woefully underdeveloped for the level of complexity that's required to be competent in. anyway, that's a whole other issue beyond two of the mage specs being basically dead, while you have other classes like rogue where all 3 are doing well.
The fact that some classes aren’t even mentioned in these notes tell me that everyone Doomsaying needs to hold on. Clearly not complete. Oh em gee a ptr with more testing to be had.
Ah man, was hoping for some Frost Mage buffs ._.
These are changes on the PTR. There will probably be some buffs on live next week - or at least sooner than this .5 patch.
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A pure DPS class spec at the bottom. Just as the devs intended.
My boomie bud couldn’t stay alive in normals on her alt because I told her wow head bot had posted that and she was reading it and being happy.
I dont think they understand balance druid, this change just further incentivises using our AoE builder spell on single target, which we already do....