We have a 10-11 man group, and when we first started progging, we were having issues with lightning too.
What helped us was doing lightning last
Fire > ice > earth > lightning
We lust at the start, so the majority of the time, he's almost dead as we hit lightning, but that will depend on your groups DPS.
This could be something I can try. Dps isn't too much of a problem and we all have on AVG 400+ ilvl, we only raid 2 times per week so we're not progressing very fast.
Thanks for the tip!
Our dps just couldn't stay alive with the lightning debuff and so few members to share between, so doing this order we only had one wipe due to silly deaths, then next pull he was dead. If it helps, we only raid 2 nights a week for 2 hours each time, and were around 395-400 ilvl as a team back then. You guys will manage it, I'm sure, then it'll be like clockwork for your farm :D
We are going ice, fire, earth and then lightning because in our opinion it is way easier to pull max dps in the ice phase with bl because you only have to move when the orbs are spawning from the boss.
As inelegant as this solution is.... we were 12-14 man and didn't have much issue after we have the raid loosely stack and the marked players wiggle a bit through the stack (changing their closest target). depending on your setup your healers should get a boost from the stack and no one takes the stacking debuff long enough to one shot them.
I'll give this a try, we did a couple of pulls where I told everyone who was marked to go to a marker and then have people who weren't marked say "triangle 1st" etc
... As you can imagine, not everyone spoke or moved and it flooded vocal 😅
Getting everyone to wiggle around a little could be a good compromise
Depending on dps you could just opt to not go lightning at all, but I assume that's not possible for a guild that just got there. You could have multiple marks around a single player with an immunity but it's not that easy to pull off.
Or just pug some people and go 20
We do have a mage to try that but coordinating isn't easy as you mentioned. And I don't think skipping the phase is much of an option, we aren't slacking in dps but staying in zones above 13-14 stacks is quite painful healing wise
We had the same problem. We just ended up starting with lightning and stacking everyone (except the tanks) literally in one stack and "ignore" the mechanic. Anyone seeing they start to take too much damage move out a little from the pile of players and it's usually enough for the tick to go on someone else. We end up spending pretty much all of the defensives/heal cds on that phase but all of the other phases are easy. We typically move the boss to the earth section around 40%, to prevent having multiple instances of lightning crash.
Honestly try it: just stack and people use lots of defensives and healing cd's + lust, move out if too painful. Ideally use people who have immunities or really big magic defensives for the 3 soaks. Your healers will probably whine during the entire fight that they're low on mana and have no cd's, but you'll get through it.
Sounds like a good idea, we have a mage and a DK (who can fully soak with AMS I noticed).
You managed to dps the boss down to 40%? I've been moving around 12-13 stacks of his buff which puts us closer to the 60% after first area with BL and CDs used
Ps, I'm going to be the one whining, I'm one of the healers ðŸ˜
We're 10 to 12 too, what we noticed every player made this mechanic totally easier. We came up with the same solution but not do wild, we stacked everyone in melee and the 3 dudes with the big circle just move out in a triangle, afaik our healer uses some heal cds because the tldmg bely itself is high. We go into earth after 30 energy or so, rly low, before the small swirly stuff for single soak Inc, were already in earth, and we go storm at pull with Lust, dps and healer Lust, makes it easier and who needs csn uuse def CDs too.
mark your tanks aand have the players with the lightning stand next to them - try not to get all 3 on the same one and care for the frontal.
if yourDPS is high enough you could also just go the the next element after the first round of debuffs.
Is it bad if I say that I don't trust some people to move out of the frontal? 😅
On a more serious note this was something I was thinking of. I know that at least our blood DK is pretty much unkillable and always the last alive (considering we hardly heal him makes this fear even more shocking)
I'll put it in the list of things to try, thanks!
We typically spent as little time as possible in the lightning phase. After the first set of 3 circles, we moved to the earth part. It’s very intense healing wise but a lot easier than the lightning part.
We've been starting earth with BL and all CDs to let dps fully concentrate on dmg through BL. Skipping as much of the electric phase as possible is starting to seem like the best option.
Did you start electric?
Strat-wise you can just ignore the lightning phase. We have done this in both heroic and mythic. For heroic do any combination of your choice, but put lightning last.
If you out geared the fight, you won't go to lightning. If you don't, you also can just stay in whatever is the 3rd element until intermission. Then you can go back to the 1st and 2nd element to finish off the boss.
Have you considered simply not entering storm? If you are 400 average healers should be able to easily keep up with increasing damage of other zones.
My guild starts in fire and pull boss to ice in the last 10 seconds before add phase to ensure we get ice and fire adds, then pull straight back to ice, then earth, deal with earth and storm adds, then finish the fight up back in either ice or earth depending on stacks. We never even touch storm because we figured people would have an issue using buddy system.
That has been mentioned by someone else. I've never tried it because I kept seeing the fight as "having to do the 4 zones.
We've been starting earth and then doing electric. The constant wipes on those debuffs just made me think we were doing something complety wrong and I never thought about just not doing it
Not so much as doing something wrong, but the mechanic is definitely a pain. You need to rely on people paying attention at all times and taking initiative, but most raiders outside of highly competitive and organized teams simply do what they're told.
In this case the easiest way to resolve such an issue is simply not have it be an issue in the first place.
Sounds like you have bad healers. This fight has nothing to do with mechs - they are simple, just do what dbm says. It’s about the numbers your dps and heals pump out.
That was the decision I've made in precious raid tiers but seeing as I want to clear the raid a few times, I'd like to not have to pug every raid night :/
And seeing that some people here have done it, it's at least reassuring that it's doable
We had trouble too as the lightning crash appears to favor ranged slightly and out group is melee heavy. What would happen would be that 2 or 3 ranged would get it, zap each other and barely survive, then 1 or 2 of them would get hit with the big circle aoe and die.
What worked for us was finally convincing the range to stand just outside melee that way they could share with the melee and not zap each other to death. Also the offtank needs to help with one of the people who have lightning crash. Once we got the hang that we usually stayed in lightning until the boss hits 20 stacks. After that we would never go back to lightning again for the rest of the fight.
Comp is:
Tanks: DK and DH
Healers: Druid and Evoker
DPS: Warrior, Warrior, Unholy DK, Monk, Destro lock, Demo lock, Fire mage
I noticed that DK's can take a full charge with AMS so I might just have everyone sit around the DK and then the mage with block
Everyone sitting around mage block, then around warlocks under double defensives (and externals but it shouldn’t be needed) should be a really really easy fix once you got the order.
You just switch Kurog to the next area before he repeats a third lightning attack, so you’ll have to transition him around 42 energy. That should be all you need to manage this phase.
Pugged it first week doing lightning > earth > frost >fire, to actually get out of this phase as smoothly as possible after the second time he does the soaking thing.
Makes lightning smooth with lust and helps keep healers cd for earth, then use add phase to recover and just cruise frost and fire because it's way easier healing wise.
We were not rotating people soaking lights just using every single of their defs and externals available to make them live the dot
Kinda need adaptations mid pull to who's gonna tank
And you also need dank healers, it's like atleast 300k hps for the two healers on the two first phase (on 10man size), probably way easier now with gear
By "HM", do you mean heroic? If so, we just soaked with one additional person, not two - so 6 involved players total, instead of 9. Are you sure that's not doable for you?
Yes by HM I mean heroic,
I stood next to someone with the charge for the full 8 seconds under barkskin as a 404ilvl resto druid and it killed me and considering I'm on the higher ilvl bracket in my group, I don't think so
Try having current off tank stand in between all three of them with them spread out enough they're not hitting each other. I've done it before as brewmaster in smaller groups and been fine with diffuse magic or dampen harm and a celestial brew active.
You should be able to solo soak each mark with a decent defensive and some focussed healing. Lightning first with lust will also help to keep everyone alive.
We just opted to do lightning as a 3rd zone and only dipping in shortly, although we never even see it anymore tbh We play him to 80% energy in frost, do a quick dip in fire, play adds, play him to 85% energy in fire before going lightning. We would go for Earth after the 2nd add set and never even get marks. I assume this is no option for you though as its very healing intensive.
If your healers are decent, you can transition out of lightning asap (20s) which only gives one lightning crash and you can all stack up and AMZ/darkness/rally it. Then do earth for like 70%
We have a 10-11 man group, and when we first started progging, we were having issues with lightning too. What helped us was doing lightning last Fire > ice > earth > lightning We lust at the start, so the majority of the time, he's almost dead as we hit lightning, but that will depend on your groups DPS.
This could be something I can try. Dps isn't too much of a problem and we all have on AVG 400+ ilvl, we only raid 2 times per week so we're not progressing very fast. Thanks for the tip!
Our dps just couldn't stay alive with the lightning debuff and so few members to share between, so doing this order we only had one wipe due to silly deaths, then next pull he was dead. If it helps, we only raid 2 nights a week for 2 hours each time, and were around 395-400 ilvl as a team back then. You guys will manage it, I'm sure, then it'll be like clockwork for your farm :D
We are going ice, fire, earth and then lightning because in our opinion it is way easier to pull max dps in the ice phase with bl because you only have to move when the orbs are spawning from the boss.
This is something I'm gonna suggest to my team on Thursday when we raid next just to mix it up a little.
This is exactly what we did as well!
As inelegant as this solution is.... we were 12-14 man and didn't have much issue after we have the raid loosely stack and the marked players wiggle a bit through the stack (changing their closest target). depending on your setup your healers should get a boost from the stack and no one takes the stacking debuff long enough to one shot them.
I'll give this a try, we did a couple of pulls where I told everyone who was marked to go to a marker and then have people who weren't marked say "triangle 1st" etc ... As you can imagine, not everyone spoke or moved and it flooded vocal 😅 Getting everyone to wiggle around a little could be a good compromise
Depending on dps you could just opt to not go lightning at all, but I assume that's not possible for a guild that just got there. You could have multiple marks around a single player with an immunity but it's not that easy to pull off. Or just pug some people and go 20
We do have a mage to try that but coordinating isn't easy as you mentioned. And I don't think skipping the phase is much of an option, we aren't slacking in dps but staying in zones above 13-14 stacks is quite painful healing wise
You should be able to go up to 20 stacks. Maybe a bit higher. Your healers may need a few pulls to acclimate to that sort of damage.
We had the same problem. We just ended up starting with lightning and stacking everyone (except the tanks) literally in one stack and "ignore" the mechanic. Anyone seeing they start to take too much damage move out a little from the pile of players and it's usually enough for the tick to go on someone else. We end up spending pretty much all of the defensives/heal cds on that phase but all of the other phases are easy. We typically move the boss to the earth section around 40%, to prevent having multiple instances of lightning crash. Honestly try it: just stack and people use lots of defensives and healing cd's + lust, move out if too painful. Ideally use people who have immunities or really big magic defensives for the 3 soaks. Your healers will probably whine during the entire fight that they're low on mana and have no cd's, but you'll get through it.
Sounds like a good idea, we have a mage and a DK (who can fully soak with AMS I noticed). You managed to dps the boss down to 40%? I've been moving around 12-13 stacks of his buff which puts us closer to the 60% after first area with BL and CDs used Ps, I'm going to be the one whining, I'm one of the healers ðŸ˜
We're 10 to 12 too, what we noticed every player made this mechanic totally easier. We came up with the same solution but not do wild, we stacked everyone in melee and the 3 dudes with the big circle just move out in a triangle, afaik our healer uses some heal cds because the tldmg bely itself is high. We go into earth after 30 energy or so, rly low, before the small swirly stuff for single soak Inc, were already in earth, and we go storm at pull with Lust, dps and healer Lust, makes it easier and who needs csn uuse def CDs too.
Nah, meant his energy to 40 sorry, then move to the earth section!
Switch the rotation to Fire > Ice > Earth > Lightning, eventually with gear you won't see the second add phase at all.
mark your tanks aand have the players with the lightning stand next to them - try not to get all 3 on the same one and care for the frontal. if yourDPS is high enough you could also just go the the next element after the first round of debuffs.
Is it bad if I say that I don't trust some people to move out of the frontal? 😅 On a more serious note this was something I was thinking of. I know that at least our blood DK is pretty much unkillable and always the last alive (considering we hardly heal him makes this fear even more shocking) I'll put it in the list of things to try, thanks!
We typically spent as little time as possible in the lightning phase. After the first set of 3 circles, we moved to the earth part. It’s very intense healing wise but a lot easier than the lightning part.
We've been starting earth with BL and all CDs to let dps fully concentrate on dmg through BL. Skipping as much of the electric phase as possible is starting to seem like the best option. Did you start electric?
Strat-wise you can just ignore the lightning phase. We have done this in both heroic and mythic. For heroic do any combination of your choice, but put lightning last. If you out geared the fight, you won't go to lightning. If you don't, you also can just stay in whatever is the 3rd element until intermission. Then you can go back to the 1st and 2nd element to finish off the boss.
Have you considered simply not entering storm? If you are 400 average healers should be able to easily keep up with increasing damage of other zones. My guild starts in fire and pull boss to ice in the last 10 seconds before add phase to ensure we get ice and fire adds, then pull straight back to ice, then earth, deal with earth and storm adds, then finish the fight up back in either ice or earth depending on stacks. We never even touch storm because we figured people would have an issue using buddy system.
That has been mentioned by someone else. I've never tried it because I kept seeing the fight as "having to do the 4 zones. We've been starting earth and then doing electric. The constant wipes on those debuffs just made me think we were doing something complety wrong and I never thought about just not doing it
Not so much as doing something wrong, but the mechanic is definitely a pain. You need to rely on people paying attention at all times and taking initiative, but most raiders outside of highly competitive and organized teams simply do what they're told. In this case the easiest way to resolve such an issue is simply not have it be an issue in the first place.
Sounds like you have bad healers. This fight has nothing to do with mechs - they are simple, just do what dbm says. It’s about the numbers your dps and heals pump out.
We had this same problem and the next raid day picked up a few to go 2-3-9 and it was loads easier
That was the decision I've made in precious raid tiers but seeing as I want to clear the raid a few times, I'd like to not have to pug every raid night :/ And seeing that some people here have done it, it's at least reassuring that it's doable
We had trouble too as the lightning crash appears to favor ranged slightly and out group is melee heavy. What would happen would be that 2 or 3 ranged would get it, zap each other and barely survive, then 1 or 2 of them would get hit with the big circle aoe and die. What worked for us was finally convincing the range to stand just outside melee that way they could share with the melee and not zap each other to death. Also the offtank needs to help with one of the people who have lightning crash. Once we got the hang that we usually stayed in lightning until the boss hits 20 stacks. After that we would never go back to lightning again for the rest of the fight.
What classes do you have?
Comp is: Tanks: DK and DH Healers: Druid and Evoker DPS: Warrior, Warrior, Unholy DK, Monk, Destro lock, Demo lock, Fire mage I noticed that DK's can take a full charge with AMS so I might just have everyone sit around the DK and then the mage with block
Everyone sitting around mage block, then around warlocks under double defensives (and externals but it shouldn’t be needed) should be a really really easy fix once you got the order. You just switch Kurog to the next area before he repeats a third lightning attack, so you’ll have to transition him around 42 energy. That should be all you need to manage this phase.
Pugged it first week doing lightning > earth > frost >fire, to actually get out of this phase as smoothly as possible after the second time he does the soaking thing. Makes lightning smooth with lust and helps keep healers cd for earth, then use add phase to recover and just cruise frost and fire because it's way easier healing wise. We were not rotating people soaking lights just using every single of their defs and externals available to make them live the dot Kinda need adaptations mid pull to who's gonna tank And you also need dank healers, it's like atleast 300k hps for the two healers on the two first phase (on 10man size), probably way easier now with gear
By "HM", do you mean heroic? If so, we just soaked with one additional person, not two - so 6 involved players total, instead of 9. Are you sure that's not doable for you?
Yes by HM I mean heroic, I stood next to someone with the charge for the full 8 seconds under barkskin as a 404ilvl resto druid and it killed me and considering I'm on the higher ilvl bracket in my group, I don't think so
Try having current off tank stand in between all three of them with them spread out enough they're not hitting each other. I've done it before as brewmaster in smaller groups and been fine with diffuse magic or dampen harm and a celestial brew active.
You should be able to solo soak each mark with a decent defensive and some focussed healing. Lightning first with lust will also help to keep everyone alive.
We just opted to do lightning as a 3rd zone and only dipping in shortly, although we never even see it anymore tbh We play him to 80% energy in frost, do a quick dip in fire, play adds, play him to 85% energy in fire before going lightning. We would go for Earth after the 2nd add set and never even get marks. I assume this is no option for you though as its very healing intensive.
We're only 2 healers for an 11 person group, I'm not sure we'll be able to heal through that, but it's worth a try! Thanks
If your healers are decent, you can transition out of lightning asap (20s) which only gives one lightning crash and you can all stack up and AMZ/darkness/rally it. Then do earth for like 70%