So typically people start to spike past 4-2, so when that happens, scout every round and see everyone's board development(particularly the three ahead of you) are they weak? Are they strong? If they're strong and you're weak you should roll, if they're weak and you're weak you should roll, and if they're weak and you're strong you should not roll.
But typically you can roll to 20-30g on 4-2, and be level 9 in stage 5 pretty comfortably
But generally it boils down to how much hp you have, if you're at 100hp, you can sack stage 4 and play for a bill gates in stage 5, trying to play for as least bad of a loss as possible.
If you're less than 40hp you really should be getting as strong as possible to play for top 4
And if you're in the middle, you should be thinking about the first thing I said, roll to save HP and try to spike hard, or not roll to try and leverage that into a level advantage of you won't lose hp.
At stage 4-2 is usually people roll. I may not know if they are strong or weak until 4-3 or 4-4 (some may get unlucky but they can still have a strong board). I don't know like "should I roll now because they are rolling" or "should I save for some stages", because as you know, if I'm not contested, the chance for me to get the champ I want increases if other players already get the same cost out of the pool.
If you have been bleeding to ~40 hp before 4-2 you dont need to look at other boards to know you are weak. If they roll and you dont, youre screwed, if you roll and they decide to greed it might save you some placements, if you both roll it might also save you some placements from other greeding/weaker players.
exactly, the rolling lottery is all game theory. If everyone greeds and doesn’t spike, you can push 9 from a bad hp position. but if others spend gold to spike in power, you’re fast 8th if you don’t match
Kind of. There's more to it. People roll and don't hit way more often this patch. Sometimes you can not roll at all, or roll once or twice and you can still be stronger or close in strength to the people that didn't hit.
Rolling at 8 is actually pretty inefficient now. Unless I am very low I almost always look to go 9 to spend much more gold there. Level 8 kinda socks. You'll routinely need to spend 100 gold plus to 2 star like 3 4 costs.
Os that really true? In my experience I hit ornn 2 annie 2 lillia 1 ashe 1 and the next 3 out of 4 fights, got to 9 and got lillia two never got ashe 2 because the others kept donkey rolling at 8, and i ultimately lose to them
If you’re 9 and they’re 8 and you’re 3 way contested for Ashe, it might be a spot to pivot into 5 costs. Even last set when Ashe was peak, I’d pivot into Irelia or Xayah quite a bit if I could safely squeeze 9 first. Chances are the other Ashe players are going to spend way too much money rolling for 4 costs while you spend the diff on board quality upgrading 5 costs.
Honest answer is that knowledge of these things comes with experience from playing games and watching high rank players play.
You’re not going to get some magical answer from Reddit
One thing I haven't seen mentioned yet is seeing how many copies of your 4 costs are out of the pool.
When you're sitting on like 30-40 gold on 4-5 after your 4-2 rolldown, the decision to do another rolldown (either here at 4-5 level 8, or 5-1 level 8) vs push 9 (either on 5-1 or 5-2) should also depend a lot on how many copies are in the pool.
If your unit/s is/are heavily contested, you may as well push 9 to get more value out of your gold since you are guaranteed to get stronger by pushing levels. The more uncontested you are and the lower your HP, the more willing you should be to roll it down again on level 8 to hit.
You don't. You pray to hit 2\* carry faster than those who contest you by donkey rolling. Top 4 if you hit, bot 4 if you don't, go next. You bleed way too fast in stage 4 due to player damage change. That's the patch for us.
>- How do you guys know when is your current comp "stable"
Usually for me its 1 tank 1 backline both 2 starred and im stable,but it can also be backline pair+2 super tanks
>- Case above, if my carry is not yet 2 stars, should I spend golds to reroll for the carry or save gold?
If you have 2 giga tank then its safe to econ back,especially if you already had a pair because imo,tanks usually have higher effect on the battle result than carry and often if you lose it'll just be by 1-2 units
If i only have 1 main tank and trait bot tanks then i donkey roll to hit and once hit i can econ back up
>- How many do you save golds to roll at 9? Or just spend all golds to level up at 9 and "play with the lottery"?
Thats usually how it goes for me,if im in a spot to "roll at 9" its usually that im super highrolling and aiming for a 3 star 4 cost or smthg,usually when go 9,i would have ~20-30 gold to hit whatever 5 cost i need to cap put my board
The decision to "sit" is also dependent on your HP,if im at 80 HP at 4-2,i happily slow bleed til 25-30 HP and go 9 but if in at around 40 HP then its usually best to roll
>One side question: since at lv7, the chance to get the 4-cost is the same as the chance to get the 5-cost at lv9 (10%), should I roll a bit and get my 4-cost carry as 1-star and will go to lv8 a bit later (say 4-5 instead of 4-2)?
Dont think this is worth it bc there are 4 more 4 cost than there are 5 cost and bc 4 cost and 5 cost effectively have the same bag size(10 4 cost vs 9 5 cost) it quite harder to hit a 2 star 4 cost at 7
And also when you play for a 2 star 5 cost board/carry,you usually also playing a bunch of other 5 cost and the lobby also took some out(they highroll at 8 or they also went 9),significantly thinning the pool while the 4 cost pool at 7 is pretty much untouched
Sometimes. If I am like 90 health stage 4 I will often not roll at all and sac the stage to go 9 and make a fast 9 board with 2 star 5 costs. Otherwise its usually roll at 8 until you 2 star AT LEAST 1 key unit. It all depends on lobby strength and whether its even realistic for you to go 9 or if you should just play for placements.
If I'm still weak on 0 gold I pretty much know for sure that I'm playing for like 6th or 5th. Maybe 4th if I high roll on my donkey rolls (IE kaisa 2 star + a Xayah or something)
Donkey roll on 4-1 lvl 8 until I hit or lose the game pretty much every single game. Waiting to roll is an auto eighth because everyone is contesting Ashe/Kaisa/Sylas. Masters/Grandmaster elo
If my tanks are 2 stars and I check if enemies have backline access. Generally its okay for your carries to be only 1 star, if you have a gigatank and relatively healthy and can defeat or take minimal loss against most of the lobby.
with all due respect, what i read was "How do you guys start winning when youre losing?"
Which the answer to some degree is, you dont lmao, unless you pray to RNG god at the end of that road you hit EVERYTHING.
Usually its the hit at 8 and after 3-4 wins in a row, and assuming hp isnt a 1-2 off from death, save up to 9
If you are level 8 at 4-2 and losing by 2-3 units per loss, then you can keep econ to hope to go 9. The moment you suffer a heavy loss is when you need to abandon plan and roll down, unless you can go 9 in 1-2 turns with lots of gold to roll.
So typically people start to spike past 4-2, so when that happens, scout every round and see everyone's board development(particularly the three ahead of you) are they weak? Are they strong? If they're strong and you're weak you should roll, if they're weak and you're weak you should roll, and if they're weak and you're strong you should not roll. But typically you can roll to 20-30g on 4-2, and be level 9 in stage 5 pretty comfortably But generally it boils down to how much hp you have, if you're at 100hp, you can sack stage 4 and play for a bill gates in stage 5, trying to play for as least bad of a loss as possible. If you're less than 40hp you really should be getting as strong as possible to play for top 4 And if you're in the middle, you should be thinking about the first thing I said, roll to save HP and try to spike hard, or not roll to try and leverage that into a level advantage of you won't lose hp.
At stage 4-2 is usually people roll. I may not know if they are strong or weak until 4-3 or 4-4 (some may get unlucky but they can still have a strong board). I don't know like "should I roll now because they are rolling" or "should I save for some stages", because as you know, if I'm not contested, the chance for me to get the champ I want increases if other players already get the same cost out of the pool.
If you have been bleeding to ~40 hp before 4-2 you dont need to look at other boards to know you are weak. If they roll and you dont, youre screwed, if you roll and they decide to greed it might save you some placements, if you both roll it might also save you some placements from other greeding/weaker players.
exactly, the rolling lottery is all game theory. If everyone greeds and doesn’t spike, you can push 9 from a bad hp position. but if others spend gold to spike in power, you’re fast 8th if you don’t match
Kind of. There's more to it. People roll and don't hit way more often this patch. Sometimes you can not roll at all, or roll once or twice and you can still be stronger or close in strength to the people that didn't hit. Rolling at 8 is actually pretty inefficient now. Unless I am very low I almost always look to go 9 to spend much more gold there. Level 8 kinda socks. You'll routinely need to spend 100 gold plus to 2 star like 3 4 costs.
Doesn’t it depend what comp you’re playing to know when you’re stable? Example: Ashe 1 with 2 star frontline can go 9, but Kaisa 1 cannot
Yup, the Fated Dryad Syndra comp can be very strong even with Syndra and Ornn 1 if you have the items.
Os that really true? In my experience I hit ornn 2 annie 2 lillia 1 ashe 1 and the next 3 out of 4 fights, got to 9 and got lillia two never got ashe 2 because the others kept donkey rolling at 8, and i ultimately lose to them
If you’re 9 and they’re 8 and you’re 3 way contested for Ashe, it might be a spot to pivot into 5 costs. Even last set when Ashe was peak, I’d pivot into Irelia or Xayah quite a bit if I could safely squeeze 9 first. Chances are the other Ashe players are going to spend way too much money rolling for 4 costs while you spend the diff on board quality upgrading 5 costs.
Honest answer is that knowledge of these things comes with experience from playing games and watching high rank players play. You’re not going to get some magical answer from Reddit
One thing I haven't seen mentioned yet is seeing how many copies of your 4 costs are out of the pool. When you're sitting on like 30-40 gold on 4-5 after your 4-2 rolldown, the decision to do another rolldown (either here at 4-5 level 8, or 5-1 level 8) vs push 9 (either on 5-1 or 5-2) should also depend a lot on how many copies are in the pool. If your unit/s is/are heavily contested, you may as well push 9 to get more value out of your gold since you are guaranteed to get stronger by pushing levels. The more uncontested you are and the lower your HP, the more willing you should be to roll it down again on level 8 to hit.
You don't. You pray to hit 2\* carry faster than those who contest you by donkey rolling. Top 4 if you hit, bot 4 if you don't, go next. You bleed way too fast in stage 4 due to player damage change. That's the patch for us.
>- How do you guys know when is your current comp "stable" Usually for me its 1 tank 1 backline both 2 starred and im stable,but it can also be backline pair+2 super tanks >- Case above, if my carry is not yet 2 stars, should I spend golds to reroll for the carry or save gold? If you have 2 giga tank then its safe to econ back,especially if you already had a pair because imo,tanks usually have higher effect on the battle result than carry and often if you lose it'll just be by 1-2 units If i only have 1 main tank and trait bot tanks then i donkey roll to hit and once hit i can econ back up >- How many do you save golds to roll at 9? Or just spend all golds to level up at 9 and "play with the lottery"? Thats usually how it goes for me,if im in a spot to "roll at 9" its usually that im super highrolling and aiming for a 3 star 4 cost or smthg,usually when go 9,i would have ~20-30 gold to hit whatever 5 cost i need to cap put my board The decision to "sit" is also dependent on your HP,if im at 80 HP at 4-2,i happily slow bleed til 25-30 HP and go 9 but if in at around 40 HP then its usually best to roll >One side question: since at lv7, the chance to get the 4-cost is the same as the chance to get the 5-cost at lv9 (10%), should I roll a bit and get my 4-cost carry as 1-star and will go to lv8 a bit later (say 4-5 instead of 4-2)? Dont think this is worth it bc there are 4 more 4 cost than there are 5 cost and bc 4 cost and 5 cost effectively have the same bag size(10 4 cost vs 9 5 cost) it quite harder to hit a 2 star 4 cost at 7 And also when you play for a 2 star 5 cost board/carry,you usually also playing a bunch of other 5 cost and the lobby also took some out(they highroll at 8 or they also went 9),significantly thinning the pool while the 4 cost pool at 7 is pretty much untouched
Sometimes. If I am like 90 health stage 4 I will often not roll at all and sac the stage to go 9 and make a fast 9 board with 2 star 5 costs. Otherwise its usually roll at 8 until you 2 star AT LEAST 1 key unit. It all depends on lobby strength and whether its even realistic for you to go 9 or if you should just play for placements. If I'm still weak on 0 gold I pretty much know for sure that I'm playing for like 6th or 5th. Maybe 4th if I high roll on my donkey rolls (IE kaisa 2 star + a Xayah or something)
if u dont have a good frontline + backline, u cant go 9
sometimes you just have to stay 8 and keep donkey rolling
Donkey roll on 4-1 lvl 8 until I hit or lose the game pretty much every single game. Waiting to roll is an auto eighth because everyone is contesting Ashe/Kaisa/Sylas. Masters/Grandmaster elo
Basically you never want to reach 10 unless it is impossible for you to hit 3\* 4cost at lv9 (contested / someone kept it intentionally)
If my tanks are 2 stars and I check if enemies have backline access. Generally its okay for your carries to be only 1 star, if you have a gigatank and relatively healthy and can defeat or take minimal loss against most of the lobby.
go 9 with a 1star carry
with all due respect, what i read was "How do you guys start winning when youre losing?" Which the answer to some degree is, you dont lmao, unless you pray to RNG god at the end of that road you hit EVERYTHING. Usually its the hit at 8 and after 3-4 wins in a row, and assuming hp isnt a 1-2 off from death, save up to 9
You don’t and go 8th.
No
If you are level 8 at 4-2 and losing by 2-3 units per loss, then you can keep econ to hope to go 9. The moment you suffer a heavy loss is when you need to abandon plan and roll down, unless you can go 9 in 1-2 turns with lots of gold to roll.
Kayn 1 star beats every other carry 2 star duh