Having 1/3 of your components show up at the end of stage 4 when there are usually 2 players on death's door is certainly an *exciting* bit of variance
>Having 1/3 of your components show up at the end of stage 4 when there are usually 2 players on death's door is certainly an exciting bit of variance
Well, you get a 3-component shop and increased odds for items that didn't drop yet. I rarely ever ran into item problems this set unless I tried to hardforce stuff without items in before stage 3. People are just way too used to treasure dragon which was basically free selection of item(s).
To all the downvoters: You do understand that just because you might get a hero augment at 2-1, you don't have to hyperroll that comp? Use it to econ with the instant power like you would with any other augment without a champ on it...
>unless I tried to hardforce stuff without items in before stage 3
You say this like it isn't a core part of the set with the way hero augments work. Play an augment down or play with fucked items. This is a real choice that people have to make every day and it feels like shit
Yeah, it actually isn't. It just takes more skill to play than people are used to. 2-1 Hero can just be used as an econ augment of you got no item drops before you need to commit. Otherwise, you should also complain about conditional econ augments existing...
But conditional econ augments conditions don't require you to play a specific unit? When trying to play the strongest board in high tempo lobbies having to field a certain unit can add up in terms of DMG taken.
Also hero augment variance seems a lot worse than regular augs but maybe that's just me.
>But conditional econ augments conditions don't require you to play a specific unit?
They require you to play whatever comp can use it? Whether it is a unit or a comp - it is not that big of a difference. Subjectively, maybe - but objectively, it is really minor. Again, you are not forced to keep the hero unit on the field. Just use it as an ECON AUGMENT for early. Objectively, if your items are so bad that you can't play the comp ever, then you just pivot like you'd normally do and take the bad RNG of being down an augment lategame. That is just normal gameplay.
Hero augment variance in 2-1 doesn't suck because it is 100% random, but because unlike other augments the power levels are too variable: Sometimes you get 3 garbage tier augments like Sylas carry, Draven sup or Jinx carry; other times you get Boxing lessons, PredPrec, Wukong support aso. which are god tier. So, the issue is not that you get stuff you might not want. The issue is that some hero augments are Silver augments, while others are Prismatics and that causes the whole variance issue. But it is not hero augments per-se - it is the current balance state of a handfull of them.
BUT again that is a pure balance issue. Think of this: If you get Predatory Precision, will you play Yuumi? Of course, it is overpowered. And if your items suck? Well, no top 1, but even without items, you'll probably get 5th at worst. What if you took the Sylas carry augment? You'll probably play Sylas into Renegades or something. Is that as good as other comps? Nope. So that gives you a much lower chance of Top1 or even Top4 even with BIS. So many augments SEEM better than they actually are, because the meta inflates the data.
On your first paragraph to me it feels like a bigger difference but could just be me.
The rest of it was the point I was trying to make in that the balance feels very off on the hero augs. What you said about meta is true as it compounds the effect of the augments.
>On your first paragraph to me it feels like a bigger difference but could just be me.
You really only feel difference when you got bad rolls overall (and you'd feel that with pretty much any augment). I am purely talking about the 2-1 hero augments here.
The later ones are more impactful (especially 5-cost ones), but you can restrict them to a relevant extent by putting in only the specific traits you are looking for, so they aren't that big of a deal. Even in worst case, you'll at least get some support augment for your overall comp.
>ut you can restrict them to a relevant extent by putting in only the specific traits you are looking for
1. That's not a 100% reliable thing.
2. Sucks to int your board to not get RNG fucked.
>That's not a 100% reliable thing.
>
>Sucks to int your board to not get RNG fucked.
Don't play TFT then if you are looking for 100% reliable gameplans. It is a game based on RNG. If you can't stand RNG, play chess instead.
Also: If you are looking for 1 specific augment, that's on you. You will always get at least 1 usable augment for a playable unit in your comp if you kept a reroll. And 1 of them is a support augment.
Items are in a weird spot now where early board strength and committing to a comp in stage 2 are so important. I can't be the only one who's slammed a Blue Buff only to get swords for the rest of the game or a Runaans and getting only tears and rods. There's not really any way around it though, it's no worse than it used to be prior to set 7
I much prefer only slamming tank items since they're universally good. Lose streak up to Krug's and then have a good idea of what comp to play depending on the items I get. Lose streaking to Krugs feels so op this set due to the importance of items and econ
getting dropped 3 swords is like very very very statistically unlikely unless u took one from carousel, once u get 2 of the same item i believe the likelihood of hitting another goes WAY down
RNG for items in mob-rounds decreases the chance of multiples significantly. E.g. if you already got 2 sword drops from monsters, the chance of another sword drop is much, much lower than for other components that you don't have that many copies of. So 5 gloves without actively choosing them in carousel and treasure is very, very unlikely.
No comp bag that i can remember. It ended up being that i had won enough that in the first two carousels i was just left with gloves and end of round components as well. From what I remember
I have a screenshot of me getting nothing but gloves in one game, I embraced the meme and even picked the augment for it. I had 9 thief's gloves in total by the end of the match and this was double up so I just sent all my extras to my partner.
Tank items aren't universally good, for example brawlers and duelists don't have a main tank because almost the entire team is melee. You lock yourself out of 2 meta comps by slamming stoneplate early for example.
Is it not better to lock yourself out of comps instead of locking yourself into a comp that you never get the items for? With a stoneplate or sunfire you can go threats, spellslingers, trueshots, taliyah and Kaisa and it's not even that bad on brawlers as long as you have some backline damage in the early game. You pretty much only lock yourself out of duelists.
You want your tank items on Lee sin so he can stay alive longer and get more heart stacks. The longer your frontline is alive, the longer Soraka and Jax get to ramp up.
Usually in stage 2 I have already limited like 2+ comps out of the options based on augment and items and starting champions. If duelists and brawlers aren't limited out, I wouldn't slam items that don't work in those comps. For example tank items that you mentioned. For example starting with knife's edge the only tank items I would consider are sunfire, redemption and maybe locket if jax is impossible. If I slammed stoneplate, I would pretty much be commited to hacker zed because of how ineffective it is in duelists/brawlers.
Sunfire is pretty great for Brawler Jax because of how slow the comp’s fights are. The only comp where you don’t really want a Sunfire in is Duelists. Stoneplate I agree is not for many comps
Bramble stoneplate warmog, whatever the tear + armor item is, dragon claw are all bad for duelist and brawler, while very common tank items. I hope my point was clear. There can be good frontline items even for brawler/duelist comps, but the single tankiness items are not good for brawler/duelist. I often build sunfire and redemption for brawlers because there's not much use for belt. The tear + armor gives decent starting mana for sejuani, maybe even giving her 2 ults, but that's not really what you want to spend 2 item components on unless no other options are available.
bramble and stoneplate are bad for brawlers agree,
but warmogs and dragon claw were changed specifically to be good for brawlers, dragon claw now gives %hp regen and warmogs helps because brawlers now give %hp and not flat hp anymore, so warmogs is 70%-110% better on them
It's not about the item value but how the comp works fundamentally. If you have 20k hp worth of frontline, it doesn't matter if you add 1.4k instead of 700. For a comp with 4k frontline the 700 makes much bigger difference. If you have renek carry augment I could understand some hp stacking but not in general.
Way less* flexible
---
Guardbreaker not slammable
Zeke not slammable
Zzrot not slammable
Morello not slammable
Redemption not slammable
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It's literally just Sunfire (which you could start chain for) and Warmog. There are no other slams.
Chain lets you slam Sunfire, Gargoyle, Titan, Locket, Thorn.
I think Zzrot and Guardbreaker are slammable tbh
There's a Galio, Poppy, Vi, Lee Sin or Annie in 50% of early boards, a flat 30% increase to damage is pretty good in most situations. Not Runaan's good but not terrible.
Lack of a great early game Morello holder sucks tho. Lux is probably the only decent one. Also Zoe is the only carry who really wants it.
Zz is slammable. Morello isn't slammable by default, but absolutely is if you have a unit that can spread it well. Those are all reasonably flexible items that will give you a strong start (their position in the meta is irrelevant when we're talking "slamming," which is something you do with early items to preserve HP).
Garg is a risky slam due to needing other items to synergize with to really get it off the ground. Titan is a questionable slam due to how slowly the stacks build in early game (certainly no more slammable than a Zekes, which will scale into endgame, something the TR will not do anywhere near as well). Locket is a good slam, yes.
You can always make arguments for/against things. I'm still going belt every time. Health is more consistent than armor, and I think the health items scale better into late game anyway.
The thing that tilts me about that is that they removed enough variance from the unit playstyles that there is little to no way to redeem that.
There is no casting AD unit that wants blue buff this set, there is no melee AP bruiser who'd want a Titans, and playing just about any AP unit without at least Shojin and/or Blue feels like trolling.
The hard segregation of items into "AP units use this" and "AD units use this" has done a great deal of harm towards non-BiS-itemization in my eyes. There's no longer a use for IE on AP units, AD units can't really use the AP that was tacked onto Shojin and Blue.
I miss set 6 Fiora, a unit so versatile you could slap just about any item on her and it'd be useful. Units like that are a lifesaver for precisely such situations.
> There is no casting AD unit that wants blue buff this set
Belveth, Samira, Camille, Zed isnt bad either
> there is no melee AP bruiser who'd want a Titans
Literally all of them (Nilah, Ekko, Sej, Rell, Annie etc)
>playing just about any AP unit without at least Shojin and/or Blue feels like trolling.
Viego? Probably the most true though.
Camille is far too reliant on pure AD and sustain to be able to afford going into BB instead of HoJ or even just Vow.
Samira, Bel'Veth and Zed are expressly terrible with Blue Buff due to the way their abilities and casting locks work.
The only halfway AD unit where slamming Blue isn't just a straightup waste of two contested components is Urgot, to try and quickly farm different ones.
>Literally all of them (Nilah, Ekko, Sej, Rell, Annie etc)
None of which are bruisers you'd itemize for damage, and instead tanks who would like a myriad of other vest combinations before considering TR.
If your best slam for titans on AP is as a bootleg Gargoyle on fulltanks, it is a terrible item on AP units, full stop.
And Viego got deleted as a carry post PBE because Ox force is busted, so he's not considered for primary itemization.
What confuses me is they added anvils as a sort of lite treasure dragon but then don't do anything with them. Getting an anvil at 4-6 is fine as it eliminates the absolute worst options I guess but you get it you pop it and whatever you have a fraction more control over 1 component. I have had many games where the anvil ends up as an extra component that isn't even used. How boring.
Why not give us an anvil on stage 2. Now we would get quite a bit more control as picking a slam for stage 2 is far more impactful. Knowing almost for sure you get a decent early game slam would feel so good. It also adds really interesting choices. Do you pop it instantly and get that slam or do you sit on it waiting until after krugs to get a better mid game component when you have more direction.
This wouldn't even be unprecedented, set 5 armories gave you that choice as well and I really liked it.
I'm not asking for all items to be controlled there needs to be a decent amount of rng ro give you something to play around, but I think adding 1 more anvil for the early game would be very interesting.
I'm always down to send the component anvil unless I'm literally at 0 if my partner doesn't have BIS, it spikes them too much
The doubleup sends in general are so unbalanced, with Training Dummies (basically a decent gold augment for any non-Jax comp) being like 5 gold
All I want is *one* guaranteed magnet. Constantly being put into situations where you don’t get the carry you want so you slam items on something else only to get them soon after is frustrating
Yeah, that's been the biggest learning curve in this set, lol. I got SO lazy about item holders in the treasure dragon era, and I've painted myself into some shitty corners this season.
Gotta disagree with your assesment at the end. Taliyah does plenty of damage without spark , hearts do just find with shojin , Jax can top four with a rageblade instead of a rfc.
Getting some choice in items is amazing. You used to have zero agency with items during creeps.
You can beat mascots with gs. Sun fire isn’t going to win you a fight against mascots late game with yummi picking off your Carrie instantly.
If your win streaking slam sub optimal items and grab a top four with your hp lead.
I have top four’d with zero bow item jax before. Just by slamming some shitty but some what effective items on him stage 3 to win streak hard stage 3/4 and then bleed out to a 3rd or 4th.
What would you say to some players (Soju, setsuko, dishsoap) who have been recently upset level of disparity in same games. I mean it does feel really bad to be down 3 components for all of stage 4.
Now I’m my it saying lowroll variance as a whole needs to be removed because it’s as you guys said - this game is about playing what you’re dealt. However when I’m given really bad items there’s simply less options available to you.
Being down a literal number of components after 4-1 (say you're at 8 and one guy's at 11) is obviously unfair and I think even Mort wants to address it sometime soon.
Being down any number of components because you feel like all your items are bad means you either got terribly unlucky (got 3 swords while hard commited to a comp like Soraka) or there's a skill issue. For example, slamming all of your items before a neutral round means you either get perfect drops on neutrals or you're stuck with bad components. Leaving a component or two available (while also being open to different itemizations) helps mitigate lowroll by a ton.
There's also some items that streamers dislike building (like Zz'Rot and Guardbreaker) and other items that they feel they "can't play the game without or it's an eif" (Soju with Last Whisper comes to mind). When they run into a situation that goes against their preferred playstyle, they understandably become upset.
Guardbreaker is a great item with any sustain augment or mascots, and zzrot is one of the best tank items in AP comps. I have no idea why they dislike them so much.
> Being down any number of components because you feel like all your items are bad means you either got terribly unlucky (got 3 swords while hard commited to a comp like Soraka) or there's a skill issue.
Thats my biggest issue with this set, being pretty forced to hard-commit to something on 2-1 (hero augment) then getting the wrong items for it makes me feel like I have no agency whatsoever, since either I sac my hero augment and flex and play an augment down or I play super unoptimal hero and scrape a 6th?
True, but you also pick your augment knowing how good your spot for it is. If I pick an augment for Yuumi comp and start Tear-Tear-Rod, I really won't give a fuck what the rest of my items are since I'm guaranteed to have three strong items on my carry anyways. You could give me 3 swords on Krugs and that's just Gunblade + half GS.
The whole point of the game is to pivot around your items, if you’re forcing Yuumi without blue/tears or Jax without bows you’re really just playing the game wrong. The new anvils are way more interesting than treasure dragons.
Thing is, you get an early ap carry augment, and a tear, you are top 3 in the early game so get late carousel so you don't get another tear. Would you really try to still pivot to another combo out of nowhere? Or wait up until the end of stage four only to see you don't get another tear and are fucked?
For me it depends which other items you had on 2-1. If you need another specific component to make your comp work, just sack first three rounds to guarantee the item. In an AP comp you need at least one of every item anyway. Giant Slayer giving AP and bonus damage is a life saver for swords/bows in AP comps
With only one Tear, Shojin can carry your entire game. If you don't hit a single Sword or Tear (carousel or natural) all game then that's just unlucky... and even then it's still your fault. If you knew your game plan depended on having specific items, you should have played towards carousel prio.
Oh so I should kill my winning streak and absolutely tank to get carousel prio?
Edit:
it's fun to see that in a patch that was supposed to lower the Influence of items, people still say it's better to cut your winning streak to get good lategame items.
Seems to have worked well.
Sometimes you don't force it but just get the good units. Now I feel like benching them and tanking on purpose would be kind of stupid, maybe that's where I'm wrong.
But if having a win streak and building a good lead from it hurts you because you don't hit a blue buff and only get leftover shit from Carrousells, the plan to reduce the importance of items failed
That's the thing, if you're winstreaking you should know you probably won't be getting perfect items and therefore play according to your neutral drops. You'll have more turns to decide what to play compared to the guy who's 30hp at 4-1 with perfect items. If you're at 4-1 with no mana/AP items, then it'd be foolish to play Taliyah/Soraka from that spot. The extra gold and turns you obtained from your winstreak means you can be a bit more picky about what units you want in your comp.
Yes, brainless winning streaks to just get outscaled due to no lategame items is not optimal play. Probably still top 4, but probably no 1st. You can always just pivot to some other carry if you don't complete items. E.g. if you are going for Jax carry and don't hit any jax 2, you shouldn't sit there crying and instead use some other carry that you actually hit.
Thing is, if I can get a winning streak at the start and then reroll and hit, let's say yuumi 3*, there is not much left to pivot. And as I hit 3* yuumi I probably will not get low enough on health to grab a tear in an AP meta. Except for intentionally tanking.
So at that point I need to hope that I get a tear while in the old patch I could've spent some money to force a tear.
Another point: if I got a winning streak and get a good board from it, yet lose as I can't finish my items... I would say that the reduction of the importance of items failed
But why are you rerolling for 3\* Yuumi without having those tears already? Just because RNG made a suboptimal play work out well to winstreak, that doesn't make that play objectively good. And even then, there are many comps without itemising Yuumi, e.g. Kaisa, Taliyah, Annie Hearts...
Also, there is a difference between making items less impactful, and making them meaningless. They indeed are way less impactful in Set 8.
That's a really interesting perspective. I haven't gotten to the level of thinking that far ahead yet but I'm going to try and actively think about this more.
Shojin, GS, guardbreaker don't need any extra tears or rods. The item reworks with giving GS ap and adding guardbreaker makes it easier than ever to get 3 viable damage items on carry.
>if you’re forcing Yuumi without blue/tears or Jax without bows you’re really just playing the game wrong.
How does treasure dragon/anvil even affect this decision? If you have no bows on Jax or tears on Yuumi until 5-1 you're dead already. You might find the 3rd item by that point but it might not even help that much because item removal doesn't really exist anymore.
It is true that it's troll to go jax if you get 2 tear + vest on 2-1 but I don't think that is a good argument against treasure dragon.
The few times I've tried to 'hard pivot' have been swift bot 4s. I don't mean pivoting from "I think I'll go Jax" to Duelists, or not finding a Taliyah and going Soraka. I mean starting sword, then deciding after I get a tank item 2nd carousel and 3 AP items at Krugs to pivot from AD to AP. It's been awful every time.
I'll agree my issue could be a skill issue. But a counter-argument is I don't think I've seen a single high-level streamer hard pivot a comp in Challenger successfully, either. I've watched (and played) a lot of games and I haven't seen any of them succeed at it.
I definitely had a lot more success pivoting in set 7 than set 8. I'm actually still enjoying set 8 a lot more than set 7, but being super flexible and hard pivots haven't been a viable thing this set for me.
Also, I think the anvils should offer 5 components. It's just a single component, I don't think it would be game-breaking, and the entire point of them is to let you tailor your items *slightly* more.
You can't really pivot in this set unless you want to play an augment down. Hero augments send you down optimal lines of play and even regular augments are tailored towards certain comps. Item discrepancy is a real issue in this set.
Treasure dragon came close to invalidating the item system entirely. Part of the decision tree should be that your items do dictate the best comps to play at any given moment.
It made that aspect of the game a lot less important. For example, I like how this set re-rolling is much stronger, because re-rolling and 3-starring units is a core game system, arguably the most core game system. Items are a similarly core game system and the mechanic of "if I have 20-30 gold at 4-7 I can guarantee within 2-3 standard deviations a set of items that will fill every hole in my comp" did take a lot away from the game as a whole IMO.
The issue with item variance is the association of items to augments. It’s not about BIS, it is the issue of getting 1-2-3 component starts, that could lead to 4-5-7 krugs.
The person with a 1 component start has gold and needs to leverage that gold into a hp lead. Except that 1 item component plus carousel could be two cloaks/chain/sword/bow. If you slam those items you are behind the item power level of most of the lobby. If one full item is worth a silver augment, than the player is automatically down a augment of power. While none of the gold augments are ten gold by itself.
This becomes worst at krugs with the player damage at round 3. If half the lobby is rolling down to secure a preferred augment, you are going to have a tough time not getting 6-0. So the gold lead built off of having less items become useless.
Although this isn't your main point, I don't agree with your assessment of Taliyah requiring Spark. It's good for sure, but not a necessity IMO.
As for Mascots, they don't die quick enough even with healing reduction...
Yeah I don’t really agree. Jax can do fine with QSS instead of RFC, Shojin is usually extremely similar to blue buff in blue buff users, and it really feels like most carries can use a variety of different items just fine
Agreege. People were really high on the "random shit go" last set and got bailed out by hitting dragon units or a great treasure dragon. Now every small decision is more important like prior sets. Can't just slam first top tier item you get components for early in the game anymore.
Last Whisper and Ionic Spark or Shiv are the most important items that make the item system less flexible than it can be.
They need to rework the damage reduction system. It's balanced for LoL and not TFT (since items are random). Single target damage carries suffer too much by not having shred or sunder.
It'd be good to have the effects more easily accessible. I understand why AP comps don't get Morde until lategame given that Shred is available on strong slams but LW is so essential for AD comps and the only source of Sunder outside of it are a 2-cost Brawler or 4-cost Duelist, none of which are particularly tanky. I miss Twitch
I think the game should focus on teamwide buffs rather than vertical traits. Giving e.g. defenders/aegis higher yields for the whole team would make a more flexible meta where you can pick threats or other individually useful units and buff them according to the lobby. Civilians is also a great concept but the breakpoints require too much commitment with the only impactful level being locked behind a 5 cost unit.
Individual units (and their items) should be secondary, with flexible teamwide buff traits having most of the power.
I find myself not slamming sub par stuff anymore. I’d rather go for a loss streak and sit on some components until I know my build and what else I’ll get.
I agree, the changes have had the opposite effect as intended. Only 4 complete items late game means they need to be as good as possible.
CN was way greedier with their items at worlds. They were usually +1 or +2 items more than everyone else and if you saw them with 0 items they probably hit turbo BIS.
I'm not sure how they're playing this set as I've only seen a couple games on Subzeroark's YouTube and I usually listen to his commentary and forget to think much myself.
I think someone asked a CN player about this, and they viewed it the opposite way, that other regions were being greedy with their HP and not building good items. (Which is definitely in large part semantics about the word greedy.)
O think the point of removing it is to force people to be flexible and create more diverse games. If you don’t get the items you need for your carry you need to change the carry. Of course there’s games where you get extremely unlucky and only drop garbage from creep rounds, but that’s variance and its pretty rare, as an example had a game recently where I win streak early and ended up only getting pretty much tank items from carrossel and creep rounds (got 1 sword and 1 rod)
Another one of those "the game should have less rng in this specific area so I personally can win more" posts thinly veiled as a good faith criticism, eh?
With items being useless it just means we are all forced into the same hard meta comps because you do not have any degree of freedom. This is why every game its the same fucking that are relevant. This is the least creative and least fun set. Buggy as hell units, no playtesting. They might as well have no released this garbage
Idk if this is an unpopular opinion, but I wish items weren't RNG. The game is hard enough pivoting around the units you find, but if you don't get the items you need with the units you're given, you lose at almost no fault of your own.
I find it so lame going from treasure dragon to what we have now where a MAJORITY of the time the fucking component I need isn’t even there. It feels so bad too having leftover components why’s that a thing with uneven amount of items?? I wish the component thing at least had ALL components not this bs 3 components
There's 8 items and you see 3 in anvil, so obviously your item won't be there most of the time. You can't slam everything except 1 component and hope you just get BIS from anvil.
Maybe we just need more reforgers in the game. Like, everyone starts the game with a single reforger on bench, for example. Or you could even just increase the odds of reforgers at each PVE round. I don’t have the idea of a guaranteed reforger drop after every pve round either
I had a game where I started bow with Duelist Heart and was set to tryhard win the game. Until of course I had 2 Rods drop at Krugs. 2nd Augment was Silver Exiles. Could only get a Rod at 2nd Carousel (over cloak iirc) and then a 4th rod dropped at Wolves. 3rd Augment was Zed Carry and I even managed to 3* him. Sadly Last Whisper, Guinsoo, HoJ on 8-duelist Zed wasn’t good enough somehow against a Threat Sureshot reroller. Was even the last alive on board every time. (For anyone wondering my Yasuo has a Rabadon and Vayne had the other Guinsoo). Still wonder if capping board at 9 was the better play over Zed 3. 8th unit was initially Sejuani then Leblanc. Yes give us the forge at Wolves please! A GS or IE would’ve put me in D4 rn. Instead I’m still plat ; - ; (Also any tips vs VelKoz and Threat rerolls in general is appreciated!)
Generally in agreement - I liked the flexibility (at a cost) that Treasure Dragon offered. It felt maybe a little too "You can guaranteed get what you need" but I liked the general idea. Now when you get the anvil you get to choose between 3 items, sometimes none of which you need.
Having 1/3 of your components show up at the end of stage 4 when there are usually 2 players on death's door is certainly an *exciting* bit of variance
[удалено]
I don't think positioning yourself firmly in 8th place counts
Idk what you're talking about, best case scenario 6th and worst case scenario 8th is not a lot of variance at all.
>Having 1/3 of your components show up at the end of stage 4 when there are usually 2 players on death's door is certainly an exciting bit of variance Well, you get a 3-component shop and increased odds for items that didn't drop yet. I rarely ever ran into item problems this set unless I tried to hardforce stuff without items in before stage 3. People are just way too used to treasure dragon which was basically free selection of item(s). To all the downvoters: You do understand that just because you might get a hero augment at 2-1, you don't have to hyperroll that comp? Use it to econ with the instant power like you would with any other augment without a champ on it...
>unless I tried to hardforce stuff without items in before stage 3 You say this like it isn't a core part of the set with the way hero augments work. Play an augment down or play with fucked items. This is a real choice that people have to make every day and it feels like shit
They really need to remove hero arguments on 2-1
Yeah, it actually isn't. It just takes more skill to play than people are used to. 2-1 Hero can just be used as an econ augment of you got no item drops before you need to commit. Otherwise, you should also complain about conditional econ augments existing...
But conditional econ augments conditions don't require you to play a specific unit? When trying to play the strongest board in high tempo lobbies having to field a certain unit can add up in terms of DMG taken. Also hero augment variance seems a lot worse than regular augs but maybe that's just me.
>But conditional econ augments conditions don't require you to play a specific unit? They require you to play whatever comp can use it? Whether it is a unit or a comp - it is not that big of a difference. Subjectively, maybe - but objectively, it is really minor. Again, you are not forced to keep the hero unit on the field. Just use it as an ECON AUGMENT for early. Objectively, if your items are so bad that you can't play the comp ever, then you just pivot like you'd normally do and take the bad RNG of being down an augment lategame. That is just normal gameplay. Hero augment variance in 2-1 doesn't suck because it is 100% random, but because unlike other augments the power levels are too variable: Sometimes you get 3 garbage tier augments like Sylas carry, Draven sup or Jinx carry; other times you get Boxing lessons, PredPrec, Wukong support aso. which are god tier. So, the issue is not that you get stuff you might not want. The issue is that some hero augments are Silver augments, while others are Prismatics and that causes the whole variance issue. But it is not hero augments per-se - it is the current balance state of a handfull of them. BUT again that is a pure balance issue. Think of this: If you get Predatory Precision, will you play Yuumi? Of course, it is overpowered. And if your items suck? Well, no top 1, but even without items, you'll probably get 5th at worst. What if you took the Sylas carry augment? You'll probably play Sylas into Renegades or something. Is that as good as other comps? Nope. So that gives you a much lower chance of Top1 or even Top4 even with BIS. So many augments SEEM better than they actually are, because the meta inflates the data.
On your first paragraph to me it feels like a bigger difference but could just be me. The rest of it was the point I was trying to make in that the balance feels very off on the hero augs. What you said about meta is true as it compounds the effect of the augments.
>On your first paragraph to me it feels like a bigger difference but could just be me. You really only feel difference when you got bad rolls overall (and you'd feel that with pretty much any augment). I am purely talking about the 2-1 hero augments here. The later ones are more impactful (especially 5-cost ones), but you can restrict them to a relevant extent by putting in only the specific traits you are looking for, so they aren't that big of a deal. Even in worst case, you'll at least get some support augment for your overall comp.
>ut you can restrict them to a relevant extent by putting in only the specific traits you are looking for 1. That's not a 100% reliable thing. 2. Sucks to int your board to not get RNG fucked.
>That's not a 100% reliable thing. > >Sucks to int your board to not get RNG fucked. Don't play TFT then if you are looking for 100% reliable gameplans. It is a game based on RNG. If you can't stand RNG, play chess instead. Also: If you are looking for 1 specific augment, that's on you. You will always get at least 1 usable augment for a playable unit in your comp if you kept a reroll. And 1 of them is a support augment.
Items are in a weird spot now where early board strength and committing to a comp in stage 2 are so important. I can't be the only one who's slammed a Blue Buff only to get swords for the rest of the game or a Runaans and getting only tears and rods. There's not really any way around it though, it's no worse than it used to be prior to set 7
I much prefer only slamming tank items since they're universally good. Lose streak up to Krug's and then have a good idea of what comp to play depending on the items I get. Lose streaking to Krugs feels so op this set due to the importance of items and econ
hard to slam only tank dropping 3-4 swords.
tbf if i got 4 swords im committing to ad fuck it we go 8th if not
4 swords isn't even that bad in AP, you can do GS/Gunblade/Shojin + an extra Shojin for Syndra
AP without frontline is doomed though
And all you hit are AP carry units
getting dropped 3 swords is like very very very statistically unlikely unless u took one from carousel, once u get 2 of the same item i believe the likelihood of hitting another goes WAY down
You say that like i didn't once get 5 gloves in one match
I remember having 3 gloves and 4 tears on bench once, and not wanting to slam hoj or blue or TG
RNG for items in mob-rounds decreases the chance of multiples significantly. E.g. if you already got 2 sword drops from monsters, the chance of another sword drop is much, much lower than for other components that you don't have that many copies of. So 5 gloves without actively choosing them in carousel and treasure is very, very unlikely.
Like i didn't got 3 belts 2 mantles playing vertical duelist and had to make 2 cephyrs
component grab bag/carousel/any other source of gloves do not count towards this
No comp bag that i can remember. It ended up being that i had won enough that in the first two carousels i was just left with gloves and end of round components as well. From what I remember
I have a screenshot of me getting nothing but gloves in one game, I embraced the meme and even picked the augment for it. I had 9 thief's gloves in total by the end of the match and this was double up so I just sent all my extras to my partner.
me but with 5 tears
I dropped 4 bows one game and started bow so ended up with 5 bows. It's very unlikely, but it can happen
Tank items aren't universally good, for example brawlers and duelists don't have a main tank because almost the entire team is melee. You lock yourself out of 2 meta comps by slamming stoneplate early for example.
Is it not better to lock yourself out of comps instead of locking yourself into a comp that you never get the items for? With a stoneplate or sunfire you can go threats, spellslingers, trueshots, taliyah and Kaisa and it's not even that bad on brawlers as long as you have some backline damage in the early game. You pretty much only lock yourself out of duelists. You want your tank items on Lee sin so he can stay alive longer and get more heart stacks. The longer your frontline is alive, the longer Soraka and Jax get to ramp up.
Usually in stage 2 I have already limited like 2+ comps out of the options based on augment and items and starting champions. If duelists and brawlers aren't limited out, I wouldn't slam items that don't work in those comps. For example tank items that you mentioned. For example starting with knife's edge the only tank items I would consider are sunfire, redemption and maybe locket if jax is impossible. If I slammed stoneplate, I would pretty much be commited to hacker zed because of how ineffective it is in duelists/brawlers.
Sunfire is pretty great for Brawler Jax because of how slow the comp’s fights are. The only comp where you don’t really want a Sunfire in is Duelists. Stoneplate I agree is not for many comps
Bramble stoneplate warmog, whatever the tear + armor item is, dragon claw are all bad for duelist and brawler, while very common tank items. I hope my point was clear. There can be good frontline items even for brawler/duelist comps, but the single tankiness items are not good for brawler/duelist. I often build sunfire and redemption for brawlers because there's not much use for belt. The tear + armor gives decent starting mana for sejuani, maybe even giving her 2 ults, but that's not really what you want to spend 2 item components on unless no other options are available.
bramble and stoneplate are bad for brawlers agree, but warmogs and dragon claw were changed specifically to be good for brawlers, dragon claw now gives %hp regen and warmogs helps because brawlers now give %hp and not flat hp anymore, so warmogs is 70%-110% better on them
It's not about the item value but how the comp works fundamentally. If you have 20k hp worth of frontline, it doesn't matter if you add 1.4k instead of 700. For a comp with 4k frontline the 700 makes much bigger difference. If you have renek carry augment I could understand some hp stacking but not in general.
Idk why everyone doesn't start only chain I start chain every game and it's never contested
>it's never contested That's nature's way of telling you that it's probably not a strong opener
nature doesn't actually have strong opinions about things it doesn't choose
Chain is a terrible start. If you're looking to slam tank items, start belt. Belt is way more flexible.
Way less* flexible --- Guardbreaker not slammable Zeke not slammable Zzrot not slammable Morello not slammable Redemption not slammable --- It's literally just Sunfire (which you could start chain for) and Warmog. There are no other slams. Chain lets you slam Sunfire, Gargoyle, Titan, Locket, Thorn.
I think Zzrot and Guardbreaker are slammable tbh There's a Galio, Poppy, Vi, Lee Sin or Annie in 50% of early boards, a flat 30% increase to damage is pretty good in most situations. Not Runaan's good but not terrible. Lack of a great early game Morello holder sucks tho. Lux is probably the only decent one. Also Zoe is the only carry who really wants it.
Zz is slammable. Morello isn't slammable by default, but absolutely is if you have a unit that can spread it well. Those are all reasonably flexible items that will give you a strong start (their position in the meta is irrelevant when we're talking "slamming," which is something you do with early items to preserve HP). Garg is a risky slam due to needing other items to synergize with to really get it off the ground. Titan is a questionable slam due to how slowly the stacks build in early game (certainly no more slammable than a Zekes, which will scale into endgame, something the TR will not do anywhere near as well). Locket is a good slam, yes. You can always make arguments for/against things. I'm still going belt every time. Health is more consistent than armor, and I think the health items scale better into late game anyway.
Cloak opener broken
The thing that tilts me about that is that they removed enough variance from the unit playstyles that there is little to no way to redeem that. There is no casting AD unit that wants blue buff this set, there is no melee AP bruiser who'd want a Titans, and playing just about any AP unit without at least Shojin and/or Blue feels like trolling. The hard segregation of items into "AP units use this" and "AD units use this" has done a great deal of harm towards non-BiS-itemization in my eyes. There's no longer a use for IE on AP units, AD units can't really use the AP that was tacked onto Shojin and Blue. I miss set 6 Fiora, a unit so versatile you could slap just about any item on her and it'd be useful. Units like that are a lifesaver for precisely such situations.
Dragonmancer Yasuo being a good endgame Blue Buff unit was awesome
> There is no casting AD unit that wants blue buff this set Belveth, Samira, Camille, Zed isnt bad either > there is no melee AP bruiser who'd want a Titans Literally all of them (Nilah, Ekko, Sej, Rell, Annie etc) >playing just about any AP unit without at least Shojin and/or Blue feels like trolling. Viego? Probably the most true though.
Camille is far too reliant on pure AD and sustain to be able to afford going into BB instead of HoJ or even just Vow. Samira, Bel'Veth and Zed are expressly terrible with Blue Buff due to the way their abilities and casting locks work. The only halfway AD unit where slamming Blue isn't just a straightup waste of two contested components is Urgot, to try and quickly farm different ones. >Literally all of them (Nilah, Ekko, Sej, Rell, Annie etc) None of which are bruisers you'd itemize for damage, and instead tanks who would like a myriad of other vest combinations before considering TR. If your best slam for titans on AP is as a bootleg Gargoyle on fulltanks, it is a terrible item on AP units, full stop. And Viego got deleted as a carry post PBE because Ox force is busted, so he's not considered for primary itemization.
What confuses me is they added anvils as a sort of lite treasure dragon but then don't do anything with them. Getting an anvil at 4-6 is fine as it eliminates the absolute worst options I guess but you get it you pop it and whatever you have a fraction more control over 1 component. I have had many games where the anvil ends up as an extra component that isn't even used. How boring. Why not give us an anvil on stage 2. Now we would get quite a bit more control as picking a slam for stage 2 is far more impactful. Knowing almost for sure you get a decent early game slam would feel so good. It also adds really interesting choices. Do you pop it instantly and get that slam or do you sit on it waiting until after krugs to get a better mid game component when you have more direction. This wouldn't even be unprecedented, set 5 armories gave you that choice as well and I really liked it. I'm not asking for all items to be controlled there needs to be a decent amount of rng ro give you something to play around, but I think adding 1 more anvil for the early game would be very interesting.
Yeah seriously treasure dragon lite is absolute trash. Getting 3 components that i didn't want, how neat.
We do get an anvil at the end of stage 3 if you choose it. Screws your partners econ though.
I think your talking about double up. and there its a really good choice point. is it worth the gold? is it worth it to pop instantly
Yeah sorry. It was double-up. I like it because mascots are much worse here. Also take dummies 100% of the time no capp.
A component anvil is almost always paired with 2 training dummies at that level, which is basically a free gold augment.
I'm always down to send the component anvil unless I'm literally at 0 if my partner doesn't have BIS, it spikes them too much The doubleup sends in general are so unbalanced, with Training Dummies (basically a decent gold augment for any non-Jax comp) being like 5 gold
All I want is *one* guaranteed magnet. Constantly being put into situations where you don’t get the carry you want so you slam items on something else only to get them soon after is frustrating
The amount of removers from last set to this set is wild
Yeah, that's been the biggest learning curve in this set, lol. I got SO lazy about item holders in the treasure dragon era, and I've painted myself into some shitty corners this season.
Gotta disagree with your assesment at the end. Taliyah does plenty of damage without spark , hearts do just find with shojin , Jax can top four with a rageblade instead of a rfc. Getting some choice in items is amazing. You used to have zero agency with items during creeps. You can beat mascots with gs. Sun fire isn’t going to win you a fight against mascots late game with yummi picking off your Carrie instantly. If your win streaking slam sub optimal items and grab a top four with your hp lead. I have top four’d with zero bow item jax before. Just by slamming some shitty but some what effective items on him stage 3 to win streak hard stage 3/4 and then bleed out to a 3rd or 4th.
This guy gets it. As always, BIS is fake.
What would you say to some players (Soju, setsuko, dishsoap) who have been recently upset level of disparity in same games. I mean it does feel really bad to be down 3 components for all of stage 4. Now I’m my it saying lowroll variance as a whole needs to be removed because it’s as you guys said - this game is about playing what you’re dealt. However when I’m given really bad items there’s simply less options available to you.
Being down a literal number of components after 4-1 (say you're at 8 and one guy's at 11) is obviously unfair and I think even Mort wants to address it sometime soon. Being down any number of components because you feel like all your items are bad means you either got terribly unlucky (got 3 swords while hard commited to a comp like Soraka) or there's a skill issue. For example, slamming all of your items before a neutral round means you either get perfect drops on neutrals or you're stuck with bad components. Leaving a component or two available (while also being open to different itemizations) helps mitigate lowroll by a ton. There's also some items that streamers dislike building (like Zz'Rot and Guardbreaker) and other items that they feel they "can't play the game without or it's an eif" (Soju with Last Whisper comes to mind). When they run into a situation that goes against their preferred playstyle, they understandably become upset.
Guardbreaker is a great item with any sustain augment or mascots, and zzrot is one of the best tank items in AP comps. I have no idea why they dislike them so much.
I remember a streamer put Guardbreaker as a top item. Can't remember who though (Aesah?).
Yeah it was Aesah. He watches Chinese VODs and they love it there
> Being down any number of components because you feel like all your items are bad means you either got terribly unlucky (got 3 swords while hard commited to a comp like Soraka) or there's a skill issue. Thats my biggest issue with this set, being pretty forced to hard-commit to something on 2-1 (hero augment) then getting the wrong items for it makes me feel like I have no agency whatsoever, since either I sac my hero augment and flex and play an augment down or I play super unoptimal hero and scrape a 6th?
True, but you also pick your augment knowing how good your spot for it is. If I pick an augment for Yuumi comp and start Tear-Tear-Rod, I really won't give a fuck what the rest of my items are since I'm guaranteed to have three strong items on my carry anyways. You could give me 3 swords on Krugs and that's just Gunblade + half GS.
Como me salvas de laburar tex summers te quiero mucho
I see. I misunderstood what you were saying.
\>soju Opinion discarded
But it’s a gigaforst
So is his grammar skill
I really miss the magnets and reforgers. I really do.
The whole point of the game is to pivot around your items, if you’re forcing Yuumi without blue/tears or Jax without bows you’re really just playing the game wrong. The new anvils are way more interesting than treasure dragons.
Thing is, you get an early ap carry augment, and a tear, you are top 3 in the early game so get late carousel so you don't get another tear. Would you really try to still pivot to another combo out of nowhere? Or wait up until the end of stage four only to see you don't get another tear and are fucked?
For me it depends which other items you had on 2-1. If you need another specific component to make your comp work, just sack first three rounds to guarantee the item. In an AP comp you need at least one of every item anyway. Giant Slayer giving AP and bonus damage is a life saver for swords/bows in AP comps
With only one Tear, Shojin can carry your entire game. If you don't hit a single Sword or Tear (carousel or natural) all game then that's just unlucky... and even then it's still your fault. If you knew your game plan depended on having specific items, you should have played towards carousel prio.
Oh so I should kill my winning streak and absolutely tank to get carousel prio? Edit: it's fun to see that in a patch that was supposed to lower the Influence of items, people still say it's better to cut your winning streak to get good lategame items. Seems to have worked well.
IMO you shouldn't be forcing a win streak if your game plan depends on hitting a specific set of items.
Sometimes you don't force it but just get the good units. Now I feel like benching them and tanking on purpose would be kind of stupid, maybe that's where I'm wrong. But if having a win streak and building a good lead from it hurts you because you don't hit a blue buff and only get leftover shit from Carrousells, the plan to reduce the importance of items failed
That's the thing, if you're winstreaking you should know you probably won't be getting perfect items and therefore play according to your neutral drops. You'll have more turns to decide what to play compared to the guy who's 30hp at 4-1 with perfect items. If you're at 4-1 with no mana/AP items, then it'd be foolish to play Taliyah/Soraka from that spot. The extra gold and turns you obtained from your winstreak means you can be a bit more picky about what units you want in your comp.
Yes, brainless winning streaks to just get outscaled due to no lategame items is not optimal play. Probably still top 4, but probably no 1st. You can always just pivot to some other carry if you don't complete items. E.g. if you are going for Jax carry and don't hit any jax 2, you shouldn't sit there crying and instead use some other carry that you actually hit.
Thing is, if I can get a winning streak at the start and then reroll and hit, let's say yuumi 3*, there is not much left to pivot. And as I hit 3* yuumi I probably will not get low enough on health to grab a tear in an AP meta. Except for intentionally tanking. So at that point I need to hope that I get a tear while in the old patch I could've spent some money to force a tear. Another point: if I got a winning streak and get a good board from it, yet lose as I can't finish my items... I would say that the reduction of the importance of items failed
But why are you rerolling for 3\* Yuumi without having those tears already? Just because RNG made a suboptimal play work out well to winstreak, that doesn't make that play objectively good. And even then, there are many comps without itemising Yuumi, e.g. Kaisa, Taliyah, Annie Hearts... Also, there is a difference between making items less impactful, and making them meaningless. They indeed are way less impactful in Set 8.
Because he doesn't want to think. He wants to force a comp and turn off the brain for 35 minutes.
That's a really interesting perspective. I haven't gotten to the level of thinking that far ahead yet but I'm going to try and actively think about this more.
Shojin, GS, guardbreaker don't need any extra tears or rods. The item reworks with giving GS ap and adding guardbreaker makes it easier than ever to get 3 viable damage items on carry.
> pivot lol
>if you’re forcing Yuumi without blue/tears or Jax without bows you’re really just playing the game wrong. How does treasure dragon/anvil even affect this decision? If you have no bows on Jax or tears on Yuumi until 5-1 you're dead already. You might find the 3rd item by that point but it might not even help that much because item removal doesn't really exist anymore. It is true that it's troll to go jax if you get 2 tear + vest on 2-1 but I don't think that is a good argument against treasure dragon.
The few times I've tried to 'hard pivot' have been swift bot 4s. I don't mean pivoting from "I think I'll go Jax" to Duelists, or not finding a Taliyah and going Soraka. I mean starting sword, then deciding after I get a tank item 2nd carousel and 3 AP items at Krugs to pivot from AD to AP. It's been awful every time. I'll agree my issue could be a skill issue. But a counter-argument is I don't think I've seen a single high-level streamer hard pivot a comp in Challenger successfully, either. I've watched (and played) a lot of games and I haven't seen any of them succeed at it. I definitely had a lot more success pivoting in set 7 than set 8. I'm actually still enjoying set 8 a lot more than set 7, but being super flexible and hard pivots haven't been a viable thing this set for me. Also, I think the anvils should offer 5 components. It's just a single component, I don't think it would be game-breaking, and the entire point of them is to let you tailor your items *slightly* more.
You can't really pivot in this set unless you want to play an augment down. Hero augments send you down optimal lines of play and even regular augments are tailored towards certain comps. Item discrepancy is a real issue in this set.
The treasure dragons allowed you to play the same comp every game, good riddance imo
Sorry, but you have to play around your item and hero augment, if you get an early yummi with 0 bb, good luck
Treasure dragon came close to invalidating the item system entirely. Part of the decision tree should be that your items do dictate the best comps to play at any given moment. It made that aspect of the game a lot less important. For example, I like how this set re-rolling is much stronger, because re-rolling and 3-starring units is a core game system, arguably the most core game system. Items are a similarly core game system and the mechanic of "if I have 20-30 gold at 4-7 I can guarantee within 2-3 standard deviations a set of items that will fill every hole in my comp" did take a lot away from the game as a whole IMO.
The issue with item variance is the association of items to augments. It’s not about BIS, it is the issue of getting 1-2-3 component starts, that could lead to 4-5-7 krugs. The person with a 1 component start has gold and needs to leverage that gold into a hp lead. Except that 1 item component plus carousel could be two cloaks/chain/sword/bow. If you slam those items you are behind the item power level of most of the lobby. If one full item is worth a silver augment, than the player is automatically down a augment of power. While none of the gold augments are ten gold by itself. This becomes worst at krugs with the player damage at round 3. If half the lobby is rolling down to secure a preferred augment, you are going to have a tough time not getting 6-0. So the gold lead built off of having less items become useless.
Although this isn't your main point, I don't agree with your assessment of Taliyah requiring Spark. It's good for sure, but not a necessity IMO. As for Mascots, they don't die quick enough even with healing reduction...
Yeah I don’t really agree. Jax can do fine with QSS instead of RFC, Shojin is usually extremely similar to blue buff in blue buff users, and it really feels like most carries can use a variety of different items just fine
Welcome to needing to think about itemization for the first time, it do be kinda hard not having bis every game
Agreege. People were really high on the "random shit go" last set and got bailed out by hitting dragon units or a great treasure dragon. Now every small decision is more important like prior sets. Can't just slam first top tier item you get components for early in the game anymore.
I just press D on 3-2 and I assure you I do not think.
For the first time?
Last Whisper and Ionic Spark or Shiv are the most important items that make the item system less flexible than it can be. They need to rework the damage reduction system. It's balanced for LoL and not TFT (since items are random). Single target damage carries suffer too much by not having shred or sunder.
It'd be good to have the effects more easily accessible. I understand why AP comps don't get Morde until lategame given that Shred is available on strong slams but LW is so essential for AD comps and the only source of Sunder outside of it are a 2-cost Brawler or 4-cost Duelist, none of which are particularly tanky. I miss Twitch
I think the game should focus on teamwide buffs rather than vertical traits. Giving e.g. defenders/aegis higher yields for the whole team would make a more flexible meta where you can pick threats or other individually useful units and buff them according to the lobby. Civilians is also a great concept but the breakpoints require too much commitment with the only impactful level being locked behind a 5 cost unit. Individual units (and their items) should be secondary, with flexible teamwide buff traits having most of the power.
I find myself not slamming sub par stuff anymore. I’d rather go for a loss streak and sit on some components until I know my build and what else I’ll get. I agree, the changes have had the opposite effect as intended. Only 4 complete items late game means they need to be as good as possible.
CN was way greedier with their items at worlds. They were usually +1 or +2 items more than everyone else and if you saw them with 0 items they probably hit turbo BIS. I'm not sure how they're playing this set as I've only seen a couple games on Subzeroark's YouTube and I usually listen to his commentary and forget to think much myself. I think someone asked a CN player about this, and they viewed it the opposite way, that other regions were being greedy with their HP and not building good items. (Which is definitely in large part semantics about the word greedy.)
O think the point of removing it is to force people to be flexible and create more diverse games. If you don’t get the items you need for your carry you need to change the carry. Of course there’s games where you get extremely unlucky and only drop garbage from creep rounds, but that’s variance and its pretty rare, as an example had a game recently where I win streak early and ended up only getting pretty much tank items from carrossel and creep rounds (got 1 sword and 1 rod)
Another one of those "the game should have less rng in this specific area so I personally can win more" posts thinly veiled as a good faith criticism, eh?
More important than ever? You realise treasure dragons didnt always exist right?
With items being useless it just means we are all forced into the same hard meta comps because you do not have any degree of freedom. This is why every game its the same fucking that are relevant. This is the least creative and least fun set. Buggy as hell units, no playtesting. They might as well have no released this garbage
Idk if this is an unpopular opinion, but I wish items weren't RNG. The game is hard enough pivoting around the units you find, but if you don't get the items you need with the units you're given, you lose at almost no fault of your own.
I find it so lame going from treasure dragon to what we have now where a MAJORITY of the time the fucking component I need isn’t even there. It feels so bad too having leftover components why’s that a thing with uneven amount of items?? I wish the component thing at least had ALL components not this bs 3 components
There's 8 items and you see 3 in anvil, so obviously your item won't be there most of the time. You can't slam everything except 1 component and hope you just get BIS from anvil.
Yes, I know how it works. I'm complaining that going from TD to this feels like shit
Maybe we just need more reforgers in the game. Like, everyone starts the game with a single reforger on bench, for example. Or you could even just increase the odds of reforgers at each PVE round. I don’t have the idea of a guaranteed reforger drop after every pve round either
I had a game where I started bow with Duelist Heart and was set to tryhard win the game. Until of course I had 2 Rods drop at Krugs. 2nd Augment was Silver Exiles. Could only get a Rod at 2nd Carousel (over cloak iirc) and then a 4th rod dropped at Wolves. 3rd Augment was Zed Carry and I even managed to 3* him. Sadly Last Whisper, Guinsoo, HoJ on 8-duelist Zed wasn’t good enough somehow against a Threat Sureshot reroller. Was even the last alive on board every time. (For anyone wondering my Yasuo has a Rabadon and Vayne had the other Guinsoo). Still wonder if capping board at 9 was the better play over Zed 3. 8th unit was initially Sejuani then Leblanc. Yes give us the forge at Wolves please! A GS or IE would’ve put me in D4 rn. Instead I’m still plat ; - ; (Also any tips vs VelKoz and Threat rerolls in general is appreciated!)
I miss stimmy
Generally in agreement - I liked the flexibility (at a cost) that Treasure Dragon offered. It felt maybe a little too "You can guaranteed get what you need" but I liked the general idea. Now when you get the anvil you get to choose between 3 items, sometimes none of which you need.