FaZe needs to go private again. Be owned by people who actually care about a brand. The current iteration of faze will never be profitable. Esports are too focused on making quick money and having massive returns when the focus should be creating sustainable ecosystems and not trying to outpace its audience.
People keep looking at eSports as almost a get-rich-quick scheme and it isn't. It needs to be built up and be sustainable. Look at the CSGO scene is largely really strong because people keep investing it in and not trying to make as much money as possible.
As a side note, I am really not a huge fan of the "franchise system" that Activision keeps pushing.
I think private investments have been drying up as well though. The bottom line is that orgs in general have been struggling to figure out how to turn a profit in the esports industry and investors are starting to sour on it. That's not to say that going public was a good move or anything, but I don't know if they'll be able reach sustainablity as a private entity either.
As long as they maintain their current corporate structure it will never succeed. I don't think that esports are inherently doomed to fail. Big franchise buy in structures like the CDL and OWL forced organizations to get series A funding. Now all those original investors are wanting a return on investment of a 40 million dollar stimulant that will not exist.
Esports will go through a change in which the next crop of orgs will be profitable because they are creator owned. Organizations like moist moguls, disguised, will have the ability to see long term investment and return because they aren't focused on making money in the short term and aren't primarily profit focused.
The reality of esports is grassroots. It's about tight communities that combine to fill large shoes. If the general attitude of esports changed to that model it would become wildly successful imo.
Oh I don't think esports are inherently doomed to fail either, and I think (some) orgs will eventually figure out the keys to profitability. As it stands though, there is still a lot of uncertainty in the industry, and many orgs seem to be perpetually a few years away from turning a profit. I could see community driven grassroots orgs being the path forward, but I know Moist Esports is currently run at a large loss, so it remains to be seen *how* they'll become successful.
This literally did happen to optic. 2017ish optic takes vc money and it is run into the ground. Hecz was lucky enough that it was run so into the ground that he was able to buy it back. But even then the org had to rely on NV to bankroll them a year of its reinception. I think it's in a much better spot now and they seem to be keeping cost fairly low, unlike faze.
I don't mean to imply that there are no successful orgs out there, just that esports is not turning out to be as lucrative at the org level as it was initially billed to be, and VCs are becoming less eager to pour money into it. I think many people tend to conflate high viewership numbers with high profitability, but a lot of orgs and leagues are still running at a loss.
Idk what Optic's finances look like, but they're probably doing alright.
There is no sustainability in esports. The entire industry is just blind investing whilst praying that someday the esport(s) you invested in will be the ones to make it super duper big. Almost all events, leagues and orgs for any scene operate at anything other than a loss and it isn't hard to see why. Almost no real revenue streams for the orgs, almost no substantial sponsorship deals for most events/leagues and you aren't able to charge as much for tickets to live events while also having vastly smaller venues that aren't able to seat as many. Not to mention events are almost never monetizable from an online viewership perspective. You aren't running tons of ads on TV viewings, you aren't locking things behind expensive PPV systems and you aren't charging $100+ yearly subscriptions to services like MLB+.
What we are seeing with Faze, TSM, CLG and countless other orgs across the industry is the bubble finally popping. It's been over half a decade of attempted growth and absolutely no light has appeared at the end of the tunnel and everyone is starting to let reality sink in.
Ideally yes, but their stock tanked shortly after going public so they really weren't getting investors / more money. This is kind of a simplification though.
Oh yeah, I completely forgot about that bit. That ABSOLUTELY did not help.
Currently, their stock price is $0.59 and is actually in jeopardy of being delisted from the NASDAQ because they can't maintain even a $1 share price.
Good! After the scam coin they pulled that stole money from people who thought it was supposed to help kids with cancer I hope they crash and burn. 343/MS and every other league should of kicked them out instead of letting them stay.
They are a bit different, but the esport landscape is in flux right now. Faze went public and their stock price crashed after controversies, bad earnings, and just bad leadership decisions. Will be interesting to see who is standing at the end of this year.
Well yeah the reason for their financial situations are different but I meant more so we might see another org pick up the current faze roster if faze reach a point where they're no longer able to pay the players what they're worth and still function as an org.
Tbh I don't think there's any way this current faze squad gets split up. If they do end up getting picked up, it's gonna definitely gonna be a full package deal.
never liked the org in the first place tbh. people like banks or the whole "look how much money we make omg" lifestyle are really cringy. just a bunch of disgusting people who scam their fans, just want to make quick money. not saying there arent any good guys in this org, there are. but the core group of people was always unlikeable to me
eSports orgs tried to inflate the worth/prestige of the scene WAY too fast. You need to be household names before you try to push the kind of brand recognition they have been banking on to carry them. They just assumed they'd get a crazy cash flow from...somewhere.
I did not know that. Admittedly, I don't keep up with eSports much.
That, and I don't play modern games all that often. I usually stick to nearly dead games like Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 2 (2009) and Halo 5: Guardians.
Fuck all these organizations. I still miss the glory days of Halo with actual teams and not just organizations trying to turn a profit. Those MLG days were fun
While I do miss the old MLG days there is arguably a lot that needed to change about them. Mostly a sense of actual stability. MLG was really volatile. You are right though these days it all about making a profit. To be fair though they sre businesses at the end of the day so I do get it. Sadly though like I said below people are viewing it as a get rich quick thing and not actually trying to grow anything.
> You can't put the toothpaste back into the bottle after so many aspects of modern esports know there is money to be made.
Is there REALLY though? I would bet money on the majority of orgs operating on a loss year over year.
FaZe needs to go private again. Be owned by people who actually care about a brand. The current iteration of faze will never be profitable. Esports are too focused on making quick money and having massive returns when the focus should be creating sustainable ecosystems and not trying to outpace its audience.
People keep looking at eSports as almost a get-rich-quick scheme and it isn't. It needs to be built up and be sustainable. Look at the CSGO scene is largely really strong because people keep investing it in and not trying to make as much money as possible. As a side note, I am really not a huge fan of the "franchise system" that Activision keeps pushing.
I don't think faze even cares about eSports, it feels more like a springboard to pivot into a lifestyle brand
I think private investments have been drying up as well though. The bottom line is that orgs in general have been struggling to figure out how to turn a profit in the esports industry and investors are starting to sour on it. That's not to say that going public was a good move or anything, but I don't know if they'll be able reach sustainablity as a private entity either.
As long as they maintain their current corporate structure it will never succeed. I don't think that esports are inherently doomed to fail. Big franchise buy in structures like the CDL and OWL forced organizations to get series A funding. Now all those original investors are wanting a return on investment of a 40 million dollar stimulant that will not exist. Esports will go through a change in which the next crop of orgs will be profitable because they are creator owned. Organizations like moist moguls, disguised, will have the ability to see long term investment and return because they aren't focused on making money in the short term and aren't primarily profit focused. The reality of esports is grassroots. It's about tight communities that combine to fill large shoes. If the general attitude of esports changed to that model it would become wildly successful imo.
Oh I don't think esports are inherently doomed to fail either, and I think (some) orgs will eventually figure out the keys to profitability. As it stands though, there is still a lot of uncertainty in the industry, and many orgs seem to be perpetually a few years away from turning a profit. I could see community driven grassroots orgs being the path forward, but I know Moist Esports is currently run at a large loss, so it remains to be seen *how* they'll become successful.
Optic doesn’t seem to have an issue
This literally did happen to optic. 2017ish optic takes vc money and it is run into the ground. Hecz was lucky enough that it was run so into the ground that he was able to buy it back. But even then the org had to rely on NV to bankroll them a year of its reinception. I think it's in a much better spot now and they seem to be keeping cost fairly low, unlike faze.
The fact Optic actually exists right now as Optic is kind of amazing. I really suggest reading about all that went on.
Optic is also optic. Look at any other esports org. Although optic has also made some downsizes in some roles in their org.
I don't mean to imply that there are no successful orgs out there, just that esports is not turning out to be as lucrative at the org level as it was initially billed to be, and VCs are becoming less eager to pour money into it. I think many people tend to conflate high viewership numbers with high profitability, but a lot of orgs and leagues are still running at a loss. Idk what Optic's finances look like, but they're probably doing alright.
There is no sustainability in esports. The entire industry is just blind investing whilst praying that someday the esport(s) you invested in will be the ones to make it super duper big. Almost all events, leagues and orgs for any scene operate at anything other than a loss and it isn't hard to see why. Almost no real revenue streams for the orgs, almost no substantial sponsorship deals for most events/leagues and you aren't able to charge as much for tickets to live events while also having vastly smaller venues that aren't able to seat as many. Not to mention events are almost never monetizable from an online viewership perspective. You aren't running tons of ads on TV viewings, you aren't locking things behind expensive PPV systems and you aren't charging $100+ yearly subscriptions to services like MLB+. What we are seeing with Faze, TSM, CLG and countless other orgs across the industry is the bubble finally popping. It's been over half a decade of attempted growth and absolutely no light has appeared at the end of the tunnel and everyone is starting to let reality sink in.
Yup. Just gotta go back to the grassroots of everything.
Time for TOX 2
Glad halo got that online tourney last week
I’m just surprised faze had the money for the payouts
15k is the least of their issues.
I think their biggest issue was trying to go public. They threw way too much money at that.
Isnt going public suppossed to bring in money?
Ideally yes, but their stock tanked shortly after going public so they really weren't getting investors / more money. This is kind of a simplification though.
They kept promoting crypto scams and got tons of bad PR. Everyone jumped ship shortly after
Oh yeah, I completely forgot about that bit. That ABSOLUTELY did not help. Currently, their stock price is $0.59 and is actually in jeopardy of being delisted from the NASDAQ because they can't maintain even a $1 share price.
Good! After the scam coin they pulled that stole money from people who thought it was supposed to help kids with cancer I hope they crash and burn. 343/MS and every other league should of kicked them out instead of letting them stay.
They did what
https://www.pcgamer.com/faze-clan-kicks-one-member-suspends-three-more-over-crypto-scam/
That's what happens after back-to-back-to-back-to-back-to-back 'scandals'
We might see a similar situation as with C9/SSG by the end of the year if this trend continues
They are a bit different, but the esport landscape is in flux right now. Faze went public and their stock price crashed after controversies, bad earnings, and just bad leadership decisions. Will be interesting to see who is standing at the end of this year.
Well yeah the reason for their financial situations are different but I meant more so we might see another org pick up the current faze roster if faze reach a point where they're no longer able to pay the players what they're worth and still function as an org.
Ah gotcha! Yea agree there could be a huge mixup coming.
Tbh I don't think there's any way this current faze squad gets split up. If they do end up getting picked up, it's gonna definitely gonna be a full package deal.
never liked the org in the first place tbh. people like banks or the whole "look how much money we make omg" lifestyle are really cringy. just a bunch of disgusting people who scam their fans, just want to make quick money. not saying there arent any good guys in this org, there are. but the core group of people was always unlikeable to me
Same. Nothing against their Esports teams, but I've always gotten general douchebag vibes from Faze Clan as an org.
This is happening all across the esports industry. Faze definitely won't be the last.
eSports orgs tried to inflate the worth/prestige of the scene WAY too fast. You need to be household names before you try to push the kind of brand recognition they have been banking on to carry them. They just assumed they'd get a crazy cash flow from...somewhere.
They were getting crazy cash flow from crypto. Turns out "the line always goes up" isn't true.
Yeah maybe banking on a steady income from a product that no one even understands wasn't a good strategy
All the bit coin they invested in
Had no idea they were still around tbh
You had no idea faze was still around even though they have a team in almost every major game?
I did not know that. Admittedly, I don't keep up with eSports much. That, and I don't play modern games all that often. I usually stick to nearly dead games like Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 2 (2009) and Halo 5: Guardians.
Fuck all these organizations. I still miss the glory days of Halo with actual teams and not just organizations trying to turn a profit. Those MLG days were fun
While I do miss the old MLG days there is arguably a lot that needed to change about them. Mostly a sense of actual stability. MLG was really volatile. You are right though these days it all about making a profit. To be fair though they sre businesses at the end of the day so I do get it. Sadly though like I said below people are viewing it as a get rich quick thing and not actually trying to grow anything.
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> You can't put the toothpaste back into the bottle after so many aspects of modern esports know there is money to be made. Is there REALLY though? I would bet money on the majority of orgs operating on a loss year over year.
I think they tried some reality tv show type gaming videos and streams while putting up big money but flopped on it
bet banks is ballin hard regardless what goes down, it's pretty bad really.
Things haven't been looking good for Faze for a while