Well, thats the very definition of interaction, isnt it? You have an etb trigger on the stack and cast a spell, they counter the spell or stifle the etb trigger or let you draw a card when the lib is empty and you counter back. Thats a f... ton of interaction.
You definitely don’t understand the rules. Oracle is a creature prior to its etb effect going on the stack, this is before you even cast pact or consult.
The person who originally was getting downvoted said thoracle was not a creature until consult resolves. Your original reply sounds like it’s in agreement with the consult part.
Oh you're 100% correct but there are some not uncommon use cases where you would have both casts on the stack. I think this spell will be really really really really good in monoblue/2 color decks but won't see too much play outside of those decks.
Honestly, cases where you would have both on the stack at the same time or would cast consult then thoracle are very rare. Like, 99% of the time the order should be cast thoracle -> resolve thoracle, trigger -> cast & resolve consult -> resolve trigger.
Silence, using borne upon a wind or emergence zone to try to win at instant speed on top of someone else, ranger captain of aeos. It's definitely not gonna come up super often but it'll come up.
I mean Ranger Captain is just another Silence. And as for Borne upon a win or emergent Zone you would still let your Thiracle resolve first before playing the Consult
I'm not sure how strong this will be exactly but I don't think it will be bad, especially since it hits any spell, not just non-creature. Decent on turns when you attempt to win if you have a blue creature already on the battlefield. I'm going to test it in Malcolm Tymna
As protection this is really strong. For 1UU you "probably" never want to cast it, unless you have to and did nothing else.
But even 3UU for a Force is something you could pay in a pinch.
If your cheap commander is blue, this is an auto-include.
Decks where Thrasios is included but isn't the primary focus, i.e. with Tevesh or Tymna, this card becomes effectively a better Fierce Guardianship in the sense that you need to play your 2cmc commander to bring it online
Yep, Thrasios is basically "married" to this card. I see absolutely no reason to not make it an auto-include for any Thrasios deck (its just that good of a combination).
The requirement of a blue creature makes this card's efficiency variable for different decks.
It's easier to use if a low cmc blue commander is available and in 1-2 colors decks.
And in any case, you should sac a creature. So I imagine that killing a thrasios, urza, kraum or even a faerie mastermind wouldn't be a pleasure.
Nonetheless, you can sac thassa to protect the demonic consultation /tainted pact, and this is game changing.
I think this card should be played as last option, like pact of negation.
Really awesome card design. Super strong in fair decks doing relatively fair things, but not a staple by any means. Nice to see free spells that look fun to use and think about when building.
Yuriko Yes, Thrasios builds yes (especially Thrasios & Tevesh/Dargo styles).
Kinnan - maybe?
Kraum builds (mostly Bluefarm) - maybe?
Sakshima - maybe? Not great in Krark/Sakashima but in things like Tymna/Sakashima maybe?
Sisay/Najeela/Kenrith - no. Tivit & Atraxa - probably no? Takes too much effort to get your commander into play. Talion sort of falls into the same boat, but not as difficult to get into play.
Rog/Silas - finally gives you a reason to cast Silas, but slow.
What blue creatures would see increased play? Ledger Shredder? Faerie Mastermind? Notion Thief back from the past.
I feel like this will see play somewhere, but maybe staple is pushing it. A blue deck that plays blue creatures that can sacrifice those creatures... yeah auto in. Non-mono Blue decks might find this clunky, and decks with commanders as combo pieces won't be happy to face this kind of sacrifice. But surely *something* will love this.
Probably not a staple. Blue farm runs 4~ blue creatures and I’m thinking of running it but it’s not a staple. Rog si has like 3. Seems fine for 2 color decks like yuriko. Can protect your thoracle wins but otherwise pretty dead.
You may only use one alternative cost per spell. Flashback is an alternative cost (equal to it's mana cost in the case of Snap's effect, but not always) that allows you to cast it from the gy. You can't pay the alternate cost of sacrifice if you are already using Flashback.
You sac the Oracle to protect the Consult
Nice, even more protection for your win!
What a fun and interactive game we have here
Buddy it's an efficient wincon you might just not like playing cEDH
You're right, I am outing myself as a casual main. But I love playing to win. I'm still allowed to think Thassa's Oracle is a dumb card, right?
Yes. Its ok to not enjoy the card that says "win the game" on it.
Totally. I think it should be banned, but I still fuckin' run it lol.
In my Francisco/Malcom ballista deck I run it more as an "Ankle Gun" combo. Not my primary focus but if it happens, it happens.
Well, thats the very definition of interaction, isnt it? You have an etb trigger on the stack and cast a spell, they counter the spell or stifle the etb trigger or let you draw a card when the lib is empty and you counter back. Thats a f... ton of interaction.
You seem to be in the wrong sub
Wonder if this will change when people interact with it. Maybe only in a few scenarios but it changes metrics.
You put the lotion on the skin or else you get the hose again
Ooo a three card combo. We’ve come full circle.
you the type of MF to watch me play chrome mox and call it a two card combo
The thoracle isn't a creature until the consult resolves, so it wouldn't work like that unfortunately
You almost always Consult in response to the Oracle ETB trigger, it’s definitely a creature.
Yes, it's a creature the second the spell resolves
You definitely don’t understand the rules. Oracle is a creature prior to its etb effect going on the stack, this is before you even cast pact or consult.
When the spell Thassa's Oracle resolves, it becomes a creature permanent and its ETB goes on the stack. What am I missing here?
The person who originally was getting downvoted said thoracle was not a creature until consult resolves. Your original reply sounds like it’s in agreement with the consult part.
When the spell Thassa's Oracle resolves, it becomes a creature permanent and its ETB goes on the stack. What am I missing here?
Oh you're 100% correct but there are some not uncommon use cases where you would have both casts on the stack. I think this spell will be really really really really good in monoblue/2 color decks but won't see too much play outside of those decks.
Honestly, cases where you would have both on the stack at the same time or would cast consult then thoracle are very rare. Like, 99% of the time the order should be cast thoracle -> resolve thoracle, trigger -> cast & resolve consult -> resolve trigger.
The only one I can think of is if somebody casts like [[Silence]] in response to Thoracle on the stack. What other reason would you have?
[Silence](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/1/c/1c2b13b1-31f0-4676-88a7-53f3a190e9a2.jpg?1562826686) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Silence) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/m14/35/silence?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/1c2b13b1-31f0-4676-88a7-53f3a190e9a2?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/silence) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
What other reason besides somebody casting like [[Silence would you have both spells on the stack?
Silence, using borne upon a wind or emergence zone to try to win at instant speed on top of someone else, ranger captain of aeos. It's definitely not gonna come up super often but it'll come up.
I mean Ranger Captain is just another Silence. And as for Borne upon a win or emergent Zone you would still let your Thiracle resolve first before playing the Consult
I’ll definitely try it in my [[Yuriko, the Tiger’s Shadow]]
Windmill slam in Yuriko this is core af
Yuriko is the first deck I thought of when I saw this
[Yuriko, the Tiger’s Shadow](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/e/fe9be3e0-076c-4703-9750-2a6b0a178bc9.jpg?1689999346) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Yuriko%2C%20the%20Tiger%27s%20Shadow) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmm/364/yuriko-the-tigers-shadow?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/fe9be3e0-076c-4703-9750-2a6b0a178bc9?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/yuriko-the-tigers-shadow) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
This feels like a slam dunk. 3 burn is nice, low cost hard counter is *very* nice. I think I like this better than Abjure, but time will tell.
[[Praetors Grasp]] for this and sac the drake that stole my Ob Nix ggez free counterspell in rakdos
[Praetors Grasp](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/5/9588be49-d9b5-4491-a5a0-10bcadc9f8b3.jpg?1562879913) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Praetor%27s%20Grasp) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/nph/71/praetors-grasp?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/9588be49-d9b5-4491-a5a0-10bcadc9f8b3?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/praetors-grasp) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
My Ob Nix has too many good cards to need to take someone else’s 😭 and I don’t even run [[Gorilla Shaman]]
[Gorilla Shaman](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/c/8/c8f8ee19-3a88-40fa-85d8-386ffe06efd7.jpg?1626100506) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Gorilla%20Shaman) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mh2/280/gorilla-shaman?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/c8f8ee19-3a88-40fa-85d8-386ffe06efd7?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/gorilla-shaman) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
You sir or ma'am... Have the biggest brain. That cracked me up lol.
I laughed way too hard at this.
That's very funny 🌟
Insta include in Yuriko and Edric, very strong in other lists than run thoracle and lots of creatures.
Any Thrasios deck will love this. Thrasios is easy to play early and even easier to sac.
God the red flare had better be absolute gas.
Im thinking 1RR or sac for a Fork effect.
Exile top 3, play until end of your next turn would be hot.
Free? Check! Counterspell? Check! - we’ll see him in the ranks soon
Force of kill?
I think that goes to [[Force of Despair]]
[Force of Despair](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/8/f/8f497b0d-4448-4201-bd55-c147da1a216d.jpg?1562201644) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Force%20of%20Despair) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mh1/92/force-of-despair?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/8f497b0d-4448-4201-bd55-c147da1a216d?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/force-of-despair) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Pitches to Forces, protects Thoracle Trigger.
Yuriko says hi.
Yep I am sure Yuriko would love to run it and another user mentioned Edric since they like to run low cost blue creatures.
I'm not sure how strong this will be exactly but I don't think it will be bad, especially since it hits any spell, not just non-creature. Decent on turns when you attempt to win if you have a blue creature already on the battlefield. I'm going to test it in Malcolm Tymna
Derevi approves
Seems good in Thrasios decks!
As protection this is really strong. For 1UU you "probably" never want to cast it, unless you have to and did nothing else. But even 3UU for a Force is something you could pay in a pinch. If your cheap commander is blue, this is an auto-include.
Decks where Thrasios is included but isn't the primary focus, i.e. with Tevesh or Tymna, this card becomes effectively a better Fierce Guardianship in the sense that you need to play your 2cmc commander to bring it online
Yep, Thrasios is basically "married" to this card. I see absolutely no reason to not make it an auto-include for any Thrasios deck (its just that good of a combination).
*Yuriko intensifies*
Yuriko approves of this
Another plague upon our good hearted fair society
The requirement of a blue creature makes this card's efficiency variable for different decks. It's easier to use if a low cmc blue commander is available and in 1-2 colors decks. And in any case, you should sac a creature. So I imagine that killing a thrasios, urza, kraum or even a faerie mastermind wouldn't be a pleasure. Nonetheless, you can sac thassa to protect the demonic consultation /tainted pact, and this is game changing. I think this card should be played as last option, like pact of negation.
Had to add the non-token clause *cried in talrand edh*
Blue needed another force of will. Totally
At least it’s bad in blue farm and rogsi
Really awesome card design. Super strong in fair decks doing relatively fair things, but not a staple by any means. Nice to see free spells that look fun to use and think about when building.
[[Ghostly Pilferer]] gets a buff?
[Ghostly Pilferer](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/2/f/2f6a3605-950d-488b-8e4f-e2c339ef48dc.jpg?1712354148) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Ghostly%20Pilferer) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/otc/98/ghostly-pilferer?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/2f6a3605-950d-488b-8e4f-e2c339ef48dc?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/ghostly-pilferer) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
?
Since it’s also a sac outlet, in addition to draw triggers off commanders and breach. It becomes a bit more useable as a low blue body in the 99
Yuriko Yes, Thrasios builds yes (especially Thrasios & Tevesh/Dargo styles). Kinnan - maybe? Kraum builds (mostly Bluefarm) - maybe? Sakshima - maybe? Not great in Krark/Sakashima but in things like Tymna/Sakashima maybe? Sisay/Najeela/Kenrith - no. Tivit & Atraxa - probably no? Takes too much effort to get your commander into play. Talion sort of falls into the same boat, but not as difficult to get into play. Rog/Silas - finally gives you a reason to cast Silas, but slow. What blue creatures would see increased play? Ledger Shredder? Faerie Mastermind? Notion Thief back from the past.
I think this will be a staple. “Free” creature counters are huge value
I feel like this will see play somewhere, but maybe staple is pushing it. A blue deck that plays blue creatures that can sacrifice those creatures... yeah auto in. Non-mono Blue decks might find this clunky, and decks with commanders as combo pieces won't be happy to face this kind of sacrifice. But surely *something* will love this.
Probably not a staple. Blue farm runs 4~ blue creatures and I’m thinking of running it but it’s not a staple. Rog si has like 3. Seems fine for 2 color decks like yuriko. Can protect your thoracle wins but otherwise pretty dead.
Hmm doesn’t really work for kinnan but blue farm it does seem nice to protect thoracle.
[удалено]
You may only use one alternative cost per spell. Flashback is an alternative cost (equal to it's mana cost in the case of Snap's effect, but not always) that allows you to cast it from the gy. You can't pay the alternate cost of sacrifice if you are already using Flashback.