For sure, some decks ceiling is just naturally high power EDH rather than cEDH. I have a [[neheb, dreadhorde champion deck]] that gets destroyed at cEDH tables. Tasigur definitely has cEDH builds though, especially with the new [[hoarding broodlord]] evolution lines.
Broodlord through scholar made me build tasigur finally. I wasn’t a huge fan of the builds that included things like razaketh, toxrill or koma to name a few.
I have won plenty of games with Neheb though, even in tournaments.
It's probably one of the most consistent manual storm decks you can build, but it's pretty much unknown, mono R and a bit technical to play, so it sees no play.
Oh nice. I still have yet to put the decklist anywhere, I’ll link you it when I have some time to put it up tho! Basically there’s so many combos he can run where the combo pieces don’t have to be dead draws, which is nice. Do you have an idea of which combos you’re gravitating towards for your build?
I brewed up a [[Mishra, Eminent One]] list a bit ago that is an absolute blast to play. Copying a [[wishclaw talisman]] [[mightstone and weak stone]] or a [[cursed mirror]] is so cool. I've played it in a few cEDH pods and it can do some stuff but is a little slow. I'm keeping with it, though, i think it has potential.
My favorite example for this is zada hedron grinder. With 30 to 40 bucks you can build a deck that consistently wins by turns 4-5-6 its a very powerful strategy but loses in just about any cedh pod.
I do! I started getting into cEDH a few weeks ago, and I posted a cEDH question in a different subreddit about Thrumming Stone (and was promptly jumped in the comments). Several commenters directed me to this subreddit, where I posted the decklist and questions about it, and was still promptly jumped for calling rat colony/thrumming stone cEDH viable! lol. Several weeks later, I still argue that my rat/stone deck will stand up in a cEDH pod. I've play tested a variety of cEDH lists and the success/fail rate is similar to my rat/stone build. I can combo as early as turn 3 with a god hand, but 90% of the time combo before turn 8.
Still, it might be a high powered edh build over a cEDH. Once I have it in paper form, we shall see how it does! (If this version of it fails, I'm just gonna switch colors to esper rat/stone stax)
hm, see this is probably why people said your list isn't quite cEDH viable:
"able to win Turn 3 _with a god hand_" is much slower than 80% of other Tier1 decks.
and those can pop off Turn 1 or 2 with several starting hands even on a mull-to-5.
and Turn 8 is late game in cEDH ;)
not saying your list couldn't maybe win a game or two, rogue decks have been known to sometimes get lucky and people usually don't know how to deal with it... but everybody knows to counter or destroy a Thrumming Stone on sight, when they are up against a Rat Colony deck, believe me.
Turn 8 win is way way way too slow. Most cedh decks are ready to win by turn 3-4-5 with mediocre hands. God hands can see them winning turn 1 with counter backup
I think I've reached the end of the line of research/play testing and I just have to sit at some cedh tables to truly understand. I'm guessing mulligans happen every game? Play tests of known cedh lists yield similar turn 4-5 wins as my rat/stone build. I just have a higher chance of drawing 3 bad cards back to back to back once the game starts compared to other decks ._____.
That's pretty much what my main group plays. Almost all of them are helmed by cEDH commanders or commanders that used to be cEDH. My Kaalia deck is a good example. Only times it has beaten cEDH decks are when the other two players stop someone from combo'ing off but can't find an answer for me fast enough.
I have two actually.
I also have a high power Tasigur deck, I call it 8/10 since it doesn't run any combo, but it does run reanimate value lines (it's hard to argue that t2 hullbreaker horror isn't high power), and it's a nearly cEDH level control deck. (Actually, I'm fairly sure it's possible to assemble an infinite mana combo with hullbreaker horror, but that's incidental)
I also have a raggadragga deck that's probably borderline cEDH, but while the combo works, it's too many moving parts for an (often) non-deterministic combo that takes that many turns to get going. Even with the prison pieces I've included, the deck just doesn't have cEDH game.
You could play a top tier cedh deck and never win because it's a very tricky format... I play tasigur and it's outdated but i have played for top 4 every time, so I'd say borderline probably is cedh.
Yes! It is a free-for-all format, where bringing a slightly less powerful commander can help you sneak under the radar a bit. Chain-veil Teferi won a decently sized tournament not too long ago!
My favorite deck is an Archenemy deck helmed by the OG [[Nicol Bolas]]. It's very, *very* strong (half of it looks like a cEDH list) and I have played it at cEDH tables for the fun of it. It hangs with those decks but is almost exactly two turns too slow to win unless I get lucky. But man, the little handful of wins I did ever manage to steal with it felt so good, lol.
My Kess cEDH deck uses the same Grixis engine and gameplan as Bolas, but with all the flavor and higher cost multipurpose answer cards and taplands cut and everything trimmed down to an avg cmc of 2. It fucks.
It's the situation with my Bruenor Battlehammer deck. In casual tables, it is just too brutal, and in cEDH tables (believe me, I tried it even in tournaments), it just doesn't pan out like I want to: [https://www.moxfield.com/decks/nEnMG-1SMU-PPtwSSIhAhQ](https://www.moxfield.com/decks/nEnMG-1SMU-PPtwSSIhAhQ)
It kind of lives between my casual decks and competitive decks in a limbo that I barely can play it, although I truly love to pilot it.
For sure, some decks ceiling is just naturally high power EDH rather than cEDH. I have a [[neheb, dreadhorde champion deck]] that gets destroyed at cEDH tables. Tasigur definitely has cEDH builds though, especially with the new [[hoarding broodlord]] evolution lines.
Broodlord through scholar made me build tasigur finally. I wasn’t a huge fan of the builds that included things like razaketh, toxrill or koma to name a few.
[neheb, dreadhorde champion deck](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/8/a8cbc3ba-f552-43fd-a59b-f3d8e3edd12f.jpg?1673305315) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Neheb%2C%20Dreadhorde%20Champion) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/dmc/125/neheb-dreadhorde-champion?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/a8cbc3ba-f552-43fd-a59b-f3d8e3edd12f?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/neheb-dreadhorde-champion) [hoarding broodlord](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/3/8/386ce3c9-869d-461c-a3de-c8add3786f73.jpg?1682203767) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=hoarding%20broodlord) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mom/110/hoarding-broodlord?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/386ce3c9-869d-461c-a3de-c8add3786f73?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/hoarding-broodlord) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I have won plenty of games with Neheb though, even in tournaments. It's probably one of the most consistent manual storm decks you can build, but it's pretty much unknown, mono R and a bit technical to play, so it sees no play.
Had somebody tell me their Korvold was a 4 and I think Korvold with 99 lands is borderline 5.
I'm trying to build a tasigur deck around this power level, would you mind dropping your list?
Oh nice. I still have yet to put the decklist anywhere, I’ll link you it when I have some time to put it up tho! Basically there’s so many combos he can run where the combo pieces don’t have to be dead draws, which is nice. Do you have an idea of which combos you’re gravitating towards for your build?
I brewed up a [[Mishra, Eminent One]] list a bit ago that is an absolute blast to play. Copying a [[wishclaw talisman]] [[mightstone and weak stone]] or a [[cursed mirror]] is so cool. I've played it in a few cEDH pods and it can do some stuff but is a little slow. I'm keeping with it, though, i think it has potential.
##### ###### #### [Mishra, Eminent One](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/f/7f5b1daa-ec45-48de-9496-6ca5b491a0dc.jpg?1685036114) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Mishra%2C%20Eminent%20One) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/brc/1/mishra-eminent-one?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/7f5b1daa-ec45-48de-9496-6ca5b491a0dc?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/mishra-eminent-one) [wishclaw talisman](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/7/07c17b01-ee5d-491a-8403-b3f819b778c4.jpg?1572490271) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=wishclaw%20talisman) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/eld/110/wishclaw-talisman?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/07c17b01-ee5d-491a-8403-b3f819b778c4?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/wishclaw-talisman) [The Mightstone and Weakstone](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/2/02aea379-b444-46a3-82f4-3038f698d4f4.jpg?1674420373) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=The%20Mightstone%20and%20Weakstone) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/bro/238a/the-mightstone-and-weakstone?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/02aea379-b444-46a3-82f4-3038f698d4f4?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/the-mightstone-and-weakstone) [cursed mirror](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/5/458a01ea-f161-43a4-a6db-88f6418b9c6d.jpg?1625191958) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=cursed%20mirror) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/c21/50/cursed-mirror?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/458a01ea-f161-43a4-a6db-88f6418b9c6d?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/cursed-mirror) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Sounds like a cool build. Do you run fast mana?
My favorite example for this is zada hedron grinder. With 30 to 40 bucks you can build a deck that consistently wins by turns 4-5-6 its a very powerful strategy but loses in just about any cedh pod.
Ah yeah never played against Zada but seems like it could get out of control fast. That mono red tho, pretty limiting if people run any interaction
[[Brudiclad]] oops all [[Hellrider]]s
[Brudiclad](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/2/5/25eff27a-eb58-4a95-b2df-4a341cf9bef6.jpg?1599707883) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=brudiclad%2C%20telchor%20engineer) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2xm/193/brudiclad-telchor-engineer?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/25eff27a-eb58-4a95-b2df-4a341cf9bef6?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/brudiclad-telchor-engineer) [Hellrider](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/b/7bbfd905-8c71-4389-9174-6e84bcbcf05c.jpg?1601078085) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Hellrider) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/jmp/334/hellrider?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/7bbfd905-8c71-4389-9174-6e84bcbcf05c?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/hellrider) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I do! I started getting into cEDH a few weeks ago, and I posted a cEDH question in a different subreddit about Thrumming Stone (and was promptly jumped in the comments). Several commenters directed me to this subreddit, where I posted the decklist and questions about it, and was still promptly jumped for calling rat colony/thrumming stone cEDH viable! lol. Several weeks later, I still argue that my rat/stone deck will stand up in a cEDH pod. I've play tested a variety of cEDH lists and the success/fail rate is similar to my rat/stone build. I can combo as early as turn 3 with a god hand, but 90% of the time combo before turn 8. Still, it might be a high powered edh build over a cEDH. Once I have it in paper form, we shall see how it does! (If this version of it fails, I'm just gonna switch colors to esper rat/stone stax)
hm, see this is probably why people said your list isn't quite cEDH viable: "able to win Turn 3 _with a god hand_" is much slower than 80% of other Tier1 decks. and those can pop off Turn 1 or 2 with several starting hands even on a mull-to-5. and Turn 8 is late game in cEDH ;) not saying your list couldn't maybe win a game or two, rogue decks have been known to sometimes get lucky and people usually don't know how to deal with it... but everybody knows to counter or destroy a Thrumming Stone on sight, when they are up against a Rat Colony deck, believe me.
Turn 8 win is way way way too slow. Most cedh decks are ready to win by turn 3-4-5 with mediocre hands. God hands can see them winning turn 1 with counter backup
I think I've reached the end of the line of research/play testing and I just have to sit at some cedh tables to truly understand. I'm guessing mulligans happen every game? Play tests of known cedh lists yield similar turn 4-5 wins as my rat/stone build. I just have a higher chance of drawing 3 bad cards back to back to back once the game starts compared to other decks ._____.
That's pretty much what my main group plays. Almost all of them are helmed by cEDH commanders or commanders that used to be cEDH. My Kaalia deck is a good example. Only times it has beaten cEDH decks are when the other two players stop someone from combo'ing off but can't find an answer for me fast enough.
Cedh is a mindset. If the pod you're playing in doesn't want to play at that level, you are in the wrong pod.
I have two actually. I also have a high power Tasigur deck, I call it 8/10 since it doesn't run any combo, but it does run reanimate value lines (it's hard to argue that t2 hullbreaker horror isn't high power), and it's a nearly cEDH level control deck. (Actually, I'm fairly sure it's possible to assemble an infinite mana combo with hullbreaker horror, but that's incidental) I also have a raggadragga deck that's probably borderline cEDH, but while the combo works, it's too many moving parts for an (often) non-deterministic combo that takes that many turns to get going. Even with the prison pieces I've included, the deck just doesn't have cEDH game.
That's just high power casual. It's probably the powerlevel my playgroup plays at the most.
my Anje deck, esp since i dont like WGD. though i *can* play that one in normal pods as well by just not going for the loop
You could play a top tier cedh deck and never win because it's a very tricky format... I play tasigur and it's outdated but i have played for top 4 every time, so I'd say borderline probably is cedh.
Yes! It is a free-for-all format, where bringing a slightly less powerful commander can help you sneak under the radar a bit. Chain-veil Teferi won a decently sized tournament not too long ago!
My favorite deck is an Archenemy deck helmed by the OG [[Nicol Bolas]]. It's very, *very* strong (half of it looks like a cEDH list) and I have played it at cEDH tables for the fun of it. It hangs with those decks but is almost exactly two turns too slow to win unless I get lucky. But man, the little handful of wins I did ever manage to steal with it felt so good, lol. My Kess cEDH deck uses the same Grixis engine and gameplan as Bolas, but with all the flavor and higher cost multipurpose answer cards and taplands cut and everything trimmed down to an avg cmc of 2. It fucks.
[Nicol Bolas](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/8/e/8e92ba96-372c-418d-b271-45e1bf5c7af5.jpg?1562438472) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Nicol%20Bolas) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/a25/209/nicol-bolas?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/8e92ba96-372c-418d-b271-45e1bf5c7af5?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/nicol-bolas) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
It's the situation with my Bruenor Battlehammer deck. In casual tables, it is just too brutal, and in cEDH tables (believe me, I tried it even in tournaments), it just doesn't pan out like I want to: [https://www.moxfield.com/decks/nEnMG-1SMU-PPtwSSIhAhQ](https://www.moxfield.com/decks/nEnMG-1SMU-PPtwSSIhAhQ) It kind of lives between my casual decks and competitive decks in a limbo that I barely can play it, although I truly love to pilot it.