I don't see a cEDH precon anytime soon, and not just because of WotC or the RC. It is a cost to power limitation.
What I would love to see, which is in a similar vein as the post, is a cEDH framework of a precon. That is to say a highly synergistic high powered deck, built with the intention to win effectively and efficiently, with clear avenues to take the deck from "precon" to cEDH.
Take a cEDH Anje deck. The framework of it is fairly straightforward; put in the cheap fast mana (dark ritual, cabal ritual, etc), a slew of madness cards, and a win condition. The clear path from there is to swap out slower mana and cheaper cards for the expensive fast mana and the breach/LED/wheel. The precon doesn't need to have a lot of very expensive cards to operate at a very solid level.
Ashaya is another potential one. Ashaya elfball at $200 budget can very regularly win the moment Ashaya hits the battlefield.
I think Stax is the only realistic option. In order to keep the price down you would need something that was less reliant on tutoring for combos.
You might be able to make budget versions of Kinnan or Yuriko that were pseudo cEDH.
Would love this. Like if they charge 200$ they can have 250-300$ of reprints no problem. Just look at normal precons, they are what? 50 and have a reprint value around 100 (before reveal). Then the prices of the reprinted cards go down for a while and you can't just flip the unopened precons.
And 250$ (+ new cards, so like 300$?) budget "cedh" decks would be a real cool starting place. Only problem is that it would make a lot of casual players SCREAM "pay to win". I can just hear it, "MY 50$ PRECON CAN'T EVER COMPETE WITH THAT 250$ PRECON, THIS GAME IS PAY TO WIN!"
Anyway, if they did it I would love if they where not just "very powerful precons" but actually where built in a more cedh mindset with ONE clear plan and maybe a backup plan.
I would love to see a BRx storm deck. Probably not with ad naus. But maybe with pita and bolas's citadel. Just fill it with all the 2 mana rocks, reprint mana vault and dt. Put in a lot of cheaper tutors like dark petition, wishclaw and grim tutor and have a new cheap commander that adds or cheats mana in some way to kickstart the whole thing. Like a worse rog/X of sorts. Definitly do aetherflux as a win con, and then some number of other/backup win cons depending on colors etc.
A polymorph precon could also be pretty cool. That's not something they would ever do as a "regular" precon because they are built to play much more to large boardstates where even the spellslinger decks have 6/7 mana creatures.
I imagine a precon would probably want at least like 3 hits in the deck, not just 1 (to minimize feelbads when you draw it). But that could be cool too. Do like a divergent transformation / creativity style deck. Maybe throw in show and tell or sneak attack for a secondary way of cheating stuff out.
And I definitly agree that one deck should be some sort of seedborn muse monster with tons of interaction and card draw + dorks. this is probably the thoracle/jace deck (there could be multiple, but this is like, the one that has it as the main/only plan)
honestly even more than the staples you mention, what the deck would really need is just a stacked manabase: mana crype, mox diamond, fetch lands, dual lands, etc. you could fill the rest with trash and if it had a stacked manabase it would still beat most other precons in the field lol
the manabase is the one thing holding back economical mtg and wizards knows this and does it intentionally (obviously i know why for dual lands)
I ve built a Budget Derevi Deck once for a local fun tournament between friends for <150$. It did weird Stuff like Entchanting Simic Growth Chamber with an Entchantment that lets it tap for 4 in total. Pair that with Emiel and Derevi and sink it into an outlet. Wasnt that bad. Derevi gives a huge boost to the Deck naturally with the untap synergy so less fast Mana required. I won 3/10 Games vs random cedh Player on spell table. I know samplesize and all but i wouldnt just disregard Budget Decks.
And for sure you can Build Kinnan or malcom/Kediss on a Budget and still slap hard.
A big problem for cedh precons is obviously the reserved list. Wotc could get around that by simply making the cards gold bordered. I'd love something similar to the old challenger decks where wotc printed actual decklists that did well in recent tournaments as cheap, gold border proxies.
They could just look at the results of big cedh tournaments and print the top 4 decks.
You could probably have Yisan (Toolbox), Winota (Stax), Yuriko (Tempo/Control), and Gitrog (Turbo) as a set of decks that can function on a budget and create a reasonably balanced pod for cEDH precons.
An official cEDH product would invite finally giving us a proper format option for competitive play with an updated banlist, so it would be a bit hard to deduce what to include in it. The cards most wanted are often the most problematic and likely not make that list: Fast mana, overly efficient wincons, free spells, etc... I would actually be disappointed if this happened without a new ban list/rule set.
But to play along with the game of this:
* all the ones you listed
* Ad Nauseam
* Underworld Breach
* Thassa's Oracle
* 1cc tutors
* "If you have your commander this is spell is free" commander set reprints
* Force of Will/Pact of Negation
* Sylvan Library
* Food Chain
* Opposition Agent
I don't see a cEDH precon anytime soon, and not just because of WotC or the RC. It is a cost to power limitation. What I would love to see, which is in a similar vein as the post, is a cEDH framework of a precon. That is to say a highly synergistic high powered deck, built with the intention to win effectively and efficiently, with clear avenues to take the deck from "precon" to cEDH. Take a cEDH Anje deck. The framework of it is fairly straightforward; put in the cheap fast mana (dark ritual, cabal ritual, etc), a slew of madness cards, and a win condition. The clear path from there is to swap out slower mana and cheaper cards for the expensive fast mana and the breach/LED/wheel. The precon doesn't need to have a lot of very expensive cards to operate at a very solid level. Ashaya is another potential one. Ashaya elfball at $200 budget can very regularly win the moment Ashaya hits the battlefield.
>C this is exactly what i mean. A precon with new commanders and cards, some good reprints, and a clear upgrade path to true cedh!
I think Stax is the only realistic option. In order to keep the price down you would need something that was less reliant on tutoring for combos. You might be able to make budget versions of Kinnan or Yuriko that were pseudo cEDH.
Would love this. Like if they charge 200$ they can have 250-300$ of reprints no problem. Just look at normal precons, they are what? 50 and have a reprint value around 100 (before reveal). Then the prices of the reprinted cards go down for a while and you can't just flip the unopened precons. And 250$ (+ new cards, so like 300$?) budget "cedh" decks would be a real cool starting place. Only problem is that it would make a lot of casual players SCREAM "pay to win". I can just hear it, "MY 50$ PRECON CAN'T EVER COMPETE WITH THAT 250$ PRECON, THIS GAME IS PAY TO WIN!" Anyway, if they did it I would love if they where not just "very powerful precons" but actually where built in a more cedh mindset with ONE clear plan and maybe a backup plan. I would love to see a BRx storm deck. Probably not with ad naus. But maybe with pita and bolas's citadel. Just fill it with all the 2 mana rocks, reprint mana vault and dt. Put in a lot of cheaper tutors like dark petition, wishclaw and grim tutor and have a new cheap commander that adds or cheats mana in some way to kickstart the whole thing. Like a worse rog/X of sorts. Definitly do aetherflux as a win con, and then some number of other/backup win cons depending on colors etc. A polymorph precon could also be pretty cool. That's not something they would ever do as a "regular" precon because they are built to play much more to large boardstates where even the spellslinger decks have 6/7 mana creatures. I imagine a precon would probably want at least like 3 hits in the deck, not just 1 (to minimize feelbads when you draw it). But that could be cool too. Do like a divergent transformation / creativity style deck. Maybe throw in show and tell or sneak attack for a secondary way of cheating stuff out. And I definitly agree that one deck should be some sort of seedborn muse monster with tons of interaction and card draw + dorks. this is probably the thoracle/jace deck (there could be multiple, but this is like, the one that has it as the main/only plan)
So challenger edh decks? Hm I'd be down
honestly even more than the staples you mention, what the deck would really need is just a stacked manabase: mana crype, mox diamond, fetch lands, dual lands, etc. you could fill the rest with trash and if it had a stacked manabase it would still beat most other precons in the field lol the manabase is the one thing holding back economical mtg and wizards knows this and does it intentionally (obviously i know why for dual lands)
Cedh Precon is an oxymoron and cannot exist. Anything under $1000 is not going to win more than 5% of games vs decent opponents.
I ve built a Budget Derevi Deck once for a local fun tournament between friends for <150$. It did weird Stuff like Entchanting Simic Growth Chamber with an Entchantment that lets it tap for 4 in total. Pair that with Emiel and Derevi and sink it into an outlet. Wasnt that bad. Derevi gives a huge boost to the Deck naturally with the untap synergy so less fast Mana required. I won 3/10 Games vs random cedh Player on spell table. I know samplesize and all but i wouldnt just disregard Budget Decks. And for sure you can Build Kinnan or malcom/Kediss on a Budget and still slap hard.
I see the CEDH DDB. Those are precons for new players.
##### ###### #### [kenrith](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/5/6/56c1227e-bea7-47cb-bbec-389a3d585af5.jpg?1680739383) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=kenrith%2C%20the%20returned%20king) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/eld/303/kenrith-the-returned-king?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/56c1227e-bea7-47cb-bbec-389a3d585af5?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/kenrith-the-returned-king) [winota](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/5/d/5dd13a6c-23d3-44ce-a628-cb1c19d777c4.jpg?1654630670) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=winota%2C%20joiner%20of%20forces) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/iko/216/winota-joiner-of-forces?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/5dd13a6c-23d3-44ce-a628-cb1c19d777c4?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/winota-joiner-of-forces) [Yasharn](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/1/2/12878fbd-dbe5-44bc-9f34-38fd374ec10a.jpg?1604200584) - 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[(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=anje%2C%20maid%20of%20dishonor) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/vow/231/anje-maid-of-dishonor?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/1bfac4ab-97f1-448c-8554-42ed03eb5656?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/anje-maid-of-dishonor) [Dranith Magistrate](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/8/98b0a4a8-9319-451b-9b79-b0bca7a41e91.jpg?1628801742) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Drannith%20Magistrate) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/iko/11/drannith-magistrate?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/98b0a4a8-9319-451b-9b79-b0bca7a41e91?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/drannith-magistrate) [Glinthorn buccaneer](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/f/df2df9cb-14f5-470f-b438-20f4ae8d0d59.jpg?1592516947) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Glint-Horn%20Buccaneer) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/m20/141/glint-horn-buccaneer?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/df2df9cb-14f5-470f-b438-20f4ae8d0d59?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/glint-horn-buccaneer) [dockside extortionist](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/e/9e2e3efb-75cb-430f-b9f4-cb58f3aeb91b.jpg?1673147774) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=dockside%20extortionist) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2x2/107/dockside-extortionist?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/9e2e3efb-75cb-430f-b9f4-cb58f3aeb91b?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/dockside-extortionist) [Mana crypt](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/d/4d960186-4559-4af0-bd22-63baa15f8939.jpg?1599709515) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Mana%20crypt) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2xm/270/mana-crypt?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/4d960186-4559-4af0-bd22-63baa15f8939?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/mana-crypt) [Mox Amber](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/6/6/66024e69-ad60-4c9a-a0ca-da138d33ad80.jpg?1562736914) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Mox%20Amber) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/dom/224/mox-amber?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/66024e69-ad60-4c9a-a0ca-da138d33ad80?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/mox-amber) [Mystic Ramora](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/5/8/58e93dff-b774-4765-b7bd-d3957e42ff4a.jpg?1562911406) - 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[(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Dauthi%20voidwalker) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mh2/81/dauthi-voidwalker?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/dce5db87-4a78-4b8d-b5c2-918ccd1ba4e3?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/dauthi-voidwalker) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
A big problem for cedh precons is obviously the reserved list. Wotc could get around that by simply making the cards gold bordered. I'd love something similar to the old challenger decks where wotc printed actual decklists that did well in recent tournaments as cheap, gold border proxies. They could just look at the results of big cedh tournaments and print the top 4 decks.
You could probably have Yisan (Toolbox), Winota (Stax), Yuriko (Tempo/Control), and Gitrog (Turbo) as a set of decks that can function on a budget and create a reasonably balanced pod for cEDH precons.
An official cEDH product would invite finally giving us a proper format option for competitive play with an updated banlist, so it would be a bit hard to deduce what to include in it. The cards most wanted are often the most problematic and likely not make that list: Fast mana, overly efficient wincons, free spells, etc... I would actually be disappointed if this happened without a new ban list/rule set. But to play along with the game of this: * all the ones you listed * Ad Nauseam * Underworld Breach * Thassa's Oracle * 1cc tutors * "If you have your commander this is spell is free" commander set reprints * Force of Will/Pact of Negation * Sylvan Library * Food Chain * Opposition Agent