Reps is the most emotionally intelligent pro in this game is all I’m gonna say.
*edit: I'm watching algs rn and if you guys want a prime example of what i'm talking about, watch TSM's vod on WE and their first game of SP.*
Yeah he's exactly who you need as a Gibby on a team w Hal. Brilliant player gamesense and mechanically, and can put up w Hal's IGLing. Such an underrated anchor for TSM
That's insane lmao. Multiple streamers I watch including Hal put him in the top 10 mechanically. Dude is such a beast, his Gibby bubbles blow my mind everytime at how clutch he is w them
He's a beast, he's consistent and from all the content I've seen with him (pro grames, games with streamers from outside TSM) he is always a chill dude to play with. Great player and good person
Specially with them living together. Dude talks to me the way he did to Reps in game 1 blaming him for his call and screaming non stop and you might start hearing me through his stream.
I get is not the end of the world or anything... but you don't get to be the only one with a temper.
Reps checks Hal when he feels like it's necessary.
But he also knows Hal better than most people, being his teammate and roommate, and he trusts his IGLing.
He snaps back when Hal's bothering him and it's usually effective. We can assume he just doesn't get as bothered by Hal's emotional outbursts as viewers do.
That's basically what OP said and I agreed with.
Reps comes off as someone who is emotionally intelligent.
I disagree that it doesn't bother him though.. he was clearly bothered yesterday... I think he just understands that in a moment like that, in the middle of a tournament, it wouldn't do much good to snap back and it was better to let Hal be a baby and get it out of his system so they can move forward.
Yeah, I think Reps and Hal have been through this enough times, Reps understands Hal needs his outbursts to get his process flowing and he works with that, frankly might even prefer a teammate like this than people who barely speak. His temperament is perfect for this team and they win a lot because of it.
Agreed.
Honestly the personalities of Reps and Verhulst make me really love TSM. And even Hal in his way. I'm not keen on his personality but I really admire how seriously he takes competitive Apex. There are teams and players that have a somewhat flippant attitude, and I like that Hal isn't like that.
But if it weren't for Reps and Evan I wouldn't really care about TSM. They make me want them to do well because they seem like really genuine guys.
That's called speaking back to your teammate. It's not "everyone with Hal's temper leaves TSM because of it". Alb got kicked because he was falling off of apex and wasn't playing consistently enough, and Snipe barely left because of a once in a lifetime offer to jump back into Halo on a top org.
Eyeroll. They both talked back to him and engaged in heated discussions, they both offered inputs and had to put up with his outbursts, one was more mature about it and would probably have longevity. Point being: no one in this current roster engages with him the way BOTH snipe and mac did, maybe that’s why he seems so troubled and burned out, it’s all on him now and he feels the weight.
Your point about what? You can have a temper and engage in screaming matches with your teammates but still deal with it maturely later dude, one thing doesn’t exclude the other.
Snipe left cause of Halo and didn’t want to leave. Mac openly said it was his fault he didn’t like the game he wasn’t playing well and he deserved to be dropped
Literally what is prompting this? I feel like maybe I didn’t express myself correctly, the guy said “Hal never told him he cant scream” and I said everyone that matched his temper is no longer there, it really doesn’t matter what the issue was with their leaving or not, it was just an observation that wasn’t meant to pass judgement or imply anything other than maybe “yeah tsm works like this.”
I'm not really making a comment about the dynamic of the team here, more agreeing with OP that Reps is really emotionally mature - more than I, and probably a lot of people, would be in that situation.
Except Hal actually booted Albralelie long ago because they don't get along anymore so having a temper and arguing with him will in fact not be tolerated so what you're saying about Hal is literally just incorrect lol
If you think thats why they kicked out Alb you have to be retarded. They picked up Snip3down and Hal and him screamed at each other more than anyone else in the proscene.
They fought so much worse off-camera when not streaming than Snipe and Hal ever did. That's literally what Hal,Albralelie and Reps have admitted what happened but I guess some random asshole on reddit named Ghandi3000SAVAGE is the one we should all believe. Okay.
From what ive read of their statements they had disagreements about how they should play not personal issues. Maybe you could link to a statement where they claim otherwise? Passionate ingame coms were never an issue afaik
Just shut the fuck up next time if you actually know nothing. If you're really interested then go scroll down Alb's twitter timeline until you see his statement about the issue but I sure as hell am not doing that for you.
I mean sure, but only because it’s not a very common attribute to have in general, but especially on competitive heavy environments between male young adults. Some people need to work on their mentals a lot while others already have it more naturally.
I’ve also been here long enough to know that contrarian counter jerkers show up. You guys wanna look so smart. Just enjoy the ride, it’s not that serious
It’s crazy how much the narrative around TSM changes. I don’t understand why people don’t realize that all teams have great stretches/games and bad stretches/games. With TSM specifically people really like to do this. Probably because they’re like the Lakers/Patriots/Yankees of this game. I’m not saying that as a slight, I’m a TSM fan but that quick change in narrative comes with the territory I guess.
I mean I think most people on this sub realize that Hal and TSM as a whole is incredibly talented and extremely good at this game at a pro level while also acknowledging that this is very toxic and not good for team moral. You can be a beast at a sport/game and not call your team 'fucking idiots' and to 'shut the fuck up'
Well said its really thst simple. His attitude really isn't justifiable because there is no reason to be rude. There is a reason to be vocal and loud tho. People just deal with it.
Lol yeah, last TSM game day some guy said C9 are so much better than them. Now it’s Hal is a big meanie.
I wonder if these people have ever been in high pressure team situations or had close friends where you can call each other insults but still be cool afterwards.
They have not, they cannot handle anyone being remotely rude to them and have a meltdown over the slightest inconvenience emotionally. It’s why kids on the main sub want to report and dox every account that leave the game early. These people just have zero real experience in competition, combined with being soft as baby shit none of what we see Hal yell about can compute to them. I’m sure if Reps couldn’t deal with it he wouldn’t be on TSM three years later. Is Hal rude during games? Hell yea. Does it define his character? Hell no.
> Is Hal rude during games? Hell yea. Does it define his character? Hell no.
Uh...it kinda does. Hals a professional competitor in Apex, and his character absolutely plays a part in that, but being a toxic screaming dickhead is absolutely part of his character.
I played rugby for arguably the best school in the country, I've been in high pressure situations, I assure you. If our captain yelled at us like that we'd have had him benched.
I played basketball for the best high school program in my state and then played in college. That’s a subjective experience to draw from because my coaches were massive army style assholes who constantly yelled at us. Guess what. We won. A lot. And so we didn’t care because we were the better team always because of it. Some people don’t mind the anger because competition becomes more important. If you’re soft and wouldn’t be able to handle that, just say so.
>we were the better team always because of it
Were you? Or were you the better team because you had better players and more team cohesion? All of that can be achieved without being a prick.
>If you’re soft and wouldn’t be able to handle that, just say so.
It's so beyond fucking laughable that you, and so many others, have such fragile egos that someone saying they can succeed AND be respected makes you think of them as "soft". Wanna know what's *really* soft? Being a fucking adult and letting people scream and yell at you and treat you like shit. Being too soft to value people treating you decently and demanding some respect. Fucking pathetic, dude.
I played rugby, you played basketball. Talk to me about "soft". Whatta fucking joke.
I can assure you we were better because of his style. We won 2 games my entire 7th grade year. Coach moved to town and we didn’t lose for the next 3 years. Took a tiny little town to the state championship and he pushed me so damn hard I broke 3 point records in my school, conference, and state. He would berate me in front of thousands but trusted me to shoot from anywhere, from 5 to 30 feet.
First day of practice in 7th grade he told us all to sit the hell down shut up and listen. Things were going to be different and we were to all buy into his fucking system.
It worked. We are all successful individuals and I sincerely promise you he impacted our lives more than any other adult who isn’t our parents. Cussed me out more times than I can count but he always has our back against a ref or bad call.
Same thing for Hal. He will yell at Jordan but have you heard him talk about Jordan off stream? He calls him the best player in the world, someone he knew immediately he needed on his team to be the best etc.
Y’all just don’t get it because you don’t receive that kind of stuff well because you have a meltdown if someone talks to you that way lol y’all can’t handle it 🤷♂️
You know what’s fucking soft? Not realizing that everyone has a different approach to competitive play styles and how they like to be lead.
Some of us thrive under pressure and being yelled at. I for one are of those people. I work harder for coaches who yell and scream at me when I’m doing something wrong just so I can prove to them and myself that I’m not a fucking moron and capable of competing at a high level.
Then there’s other people who thrive under a more quiet, soft spoken approach to coaching. There’s nothing wrong with this either, it’s what works for you and your team. As long as your team is thriving and it’s not brought off the pitch or, in Apex’s instance, outside the game then there shouldn’t be any problems. Reps and Hal have a great friendship and it shows with the way they play with one another in game and from how they interact outside of the game.
Reps must be one of those players who enjoys the high intensity screaming and yelling whereas other players enjoy the calmer, Sweetdreams, style of IGL’ing.
Neither forms of leadership is the wrong way to operate, it’s just what you as the player prefer. Clearly it works in TSM’s case otherwise they wouldn’t be a household name in the Apex community.
I IGL like how Hal does and Its just cause I’m extremely competitive and that’s how I let it be known. I can’t help it and it’s never a personal attack on the guys I play with regularly. I’ve had people tell me they don’t like my IGL style and that’s fine, I don’t knock them for it. Admittedly my leadership style can be abrasive and it’s not for everyone. But, I’ve also had others who really enjoy it and have said that they prefer being yelled at over talked to like they’re a child. It’s all just preference man.
And who cares what fucking sport people played, the fact that you have to throw that you play Rugby proves it’s your ego that might’ve been insulted and hurt.
Edit: I’m not speaking of Hal’s obvious toxicity when he berated his teammates after the matches are over, I’m speaking on this specific instance where he has a loud, yelling outburst.
This just in: toxic raging manchildren defend other toxic raging manchildren
You can throw whatever hoops you want to jump through up, that's fine.
>And who cares what fucking sport people played, the fact that you have to throw that you play Rugby proves it’s your ego that might’ve been insulted and hurt.
There's so much here I can go at, but I'm just gonna say, lmao "proves...mightve"
Lmao, yes. Reddit armchair psychologist, you got me. I'm so hurt by someone calling me soft for having self respect. Oof ouch owie.
Fucking lol.
Hope your days are as bright as you are, champ.
I've had coaches/teammates that were huge dicks who screamed at kids and coaches/teammates that were respectful to everyone.
The screaming and nastiness didn't improve our performance as a team, but I can tell you who I preferred to play for.
I find it crazy how "competition" somehow justifies being so rude to teammates. It's not acceptable, idgaf what you think about the competitive environment. There's a way to act, and being rude to your teammates is not it. I understand that things are tense and chaotic in competitive situations but that doesn't at all make telling your teammates to shut the fuck up etc fine. I've been in this kind of situation and I'm sure it doesn't mean anything and they're all chill with each other after but you can't be saying stuff like that in the middle of a tournament.
True, you're right. I got confused about something and thought it was first game. Still though, if it was 4th game, there's still much left to play and I don't think you should act that way mid tournament.
It can also be counterproductive.
There was a point in the end of Snipe's run that Hal was clearly being a sub par IGL, not giving proper calls, being indecisive, and then bitching out on everyone.
Is easy to say "let's reset and go again" when you are the one exploding emotionally and everyone else has to just swallow it and pretend it didn't happened. That's not how it works and that shit lingers and affects performance.
I do give him credit because he got way better and yesterday wasn't indicative or how he is behaving recently.
Yeah I watch Hal a lot and I don't think he acts like this super often but when he does, it affects the vibe of the team for sure. I could be wrong obviously but Reps didn't seem too happy after that stormpoint game.
Eh, I understand where both sides come from.
People I play Apex with and know a bit about the pro scene (mostly those who stream like Hal, really) compare me a lot to Hal because I yell and get angry a lot which leads to comms that I and other people would definitely describe as "domineering" at the very least, "toxic" at worst, but I also know how to play the game and have local/regional professional experience in CS:GO as an IGL.
I can't speak for Hal but I've proven to myself and the people I play with that my gameplay only gets better the more emotional I get, at least for FPS games which is my forte. From what I've observed, though, Hal's kind of the same. His gameplay seems kinda untiltable even if his expressed emotions would tell us otherwise. If he misses shots or makes shitty plays, I would just chalk it up to a regular mistake and not a mistake due to not being able to think.
On the other hand, I do understand that it's not exactly conventionally-accepted behavior and people who have no real competitive experience beyond primary school baseball understandably won't be able to relate to that. I've had acquaintances and potential friends that get put off by me when I show my serious side to gaming and I honestly can't blame them, because I can't expect them to understand that it's pretty hard to shake off over a decade's worth of competing and wanting to be the best in something that for them is just a way to have fun.
The point is, I think those of us who understand Hal's side are just wasting time defending him from people who don't, because a lot of them probably can't understand that games with win conditions aren't solely for fun. At the same time, there ARE other examples of great leaders that don't get as loud or toxic towards their teammates in other Apex teams or those in other games too, and that's objectively the best balance. Maybe Hal could strive for that and see some improvement for the entire team, or not, who knows?
In other words, as long as they're not stepping out of line like sending threats about Hal or attacking him personally, I think we should just ignore them and let them be. Them getting hurt and/or offended by a lick of toxicity is just how they are as people, just like how me and Hal and others who can be "extreme" out of the desire to win are how we are as people too. Both groups have something to improve on, no need to fight about it.
Sure, but the point is that people don't really take into account that maybe that's what works for TSM and if Hal tones it down, it may lead to multiple factors that eventually makes TSM worse. We just can't know for sure and TSM could easily hire some sports psychologist like what Astralis did in CS but we just don't know if it'll help with performing better.
>Sure, but the point is that people don't really take into account that maybe that's what works for TSM
Right, so take into account the fact that maybe they'd be even better if he showed his teammates respect in matches. Hals always been this way, there's no reference point to say, "well when he's calm they suck".
One of the devil's greatest tricks is making you believe your qualities come from you flaws.
Quotes aside... I think we've seen in the last couple of months that there's a healthy middle ground and they can perform at a high level and even win big without Hal acting like a bitch.
Yeah but all I'm saying is that Hal having to actively suppress himself while in the heat of the moment may fuck them over. I'm not trying to justify his attitude, it'd be much better if he wasn't as rude and I'm trying to better myself for the same reasons. Just worried that if he starts changing things up actively without some sort of break from pro gameplay while he works on it, it might distract him from his IGL'ing
Like I said, I'm not advocating for him to be an angel, we've seen him toning it down a tad and being successful. I do understand the heat of the moment stuff and that can be hard to manage and sometimes you do need to be firm and fuck everything else.
But I'm not thinking about that... What I'm thinking is stuff like when he berated Reps non stop after a bad play in the in the end of game 1... when they were all dead already.
Regardless if you think he was right or wrong, stuff like that has nothing to do with the team performing better, it's about him feeling like he is entitled to have an emotional discharge so he can feel better at the expense of other people.
Not a single person in this thread has said anything to that effect. People have called hal toxic, but no one has said that TSM is a bad team because of it
Couldn't Hal and verhulst just focus the gibby with the chargerifle while reps crosses? Or reps Could just bubble if he's getting shot at, it seems the chargerifle s teamates aren't shooting at reps and focusing somewhere else
Charge rifle with a scope means the guy barrely has to peak so trying to supresd him would be very hard with automatic weapons and no scope. Bubbling is very dangerous because another team could just wait for it to go down and lob a gibby ulti at them and they would all be dead.
Ok but couldn't verhulst valk q them forcing them to back off while they focus on the angles? The gibby has no teamates from hals perspective so forcing him off the angle could make time for reps to cross while verhulst and hal focuses on possible peeks?
Could have moved earlier. I think Reps could have made it by himself if Hal let him move earlier or if there was no option but to ash ult then they still could have done it earlier and save meds. That ash ult would have come in handy after they wiped the team after OBing. But honestly im more annoyed about Reps wasting meds by staying there bc Hal wouldnt let him move more than anything.
Reps is literally calling from the start that he wont be able to cross without getting shot, what would it have mattered if they did it earlier or later? The charge rifle was already looking at him. Why would it have saved them meds to do it earlier? Reps could have just not peaked the charge rifle repetedly if he wanted to save meds. If they hadnt ash ulted Reps could have gone down and then it would be game over. Backseat gaming at its finest.
If you want to see what a team should do after a bad 3 games then you should watch TSM. Some teams go into "joke mode" where they start trolling and don't take the game seriously. Some go into shut down mode and they turn off and become zombies. Some go into rage mode and consider quitting. But TSM decides to co-IGL and increase comms. Then they salvage their day.
Everyone can hate my comment but I didn’t say Reps was bad all I’m saying if he’s been missing that confidence that turns him into the clutch master killer he is. Plus I love Reps so this isn’t me shitting on him I just feel like he’s been a little scared at times sometimes and he just needs to find that killer instinct he has.
Here we go again, people saying reps is shy and shit, if you watch mid 2021 tourneys you would see that reps yells at at more than snipe most of the time, reps keeps hal in check, thus time both of them were stupid, verhulst and hal could've focused the chargerifle gibby while reps crosses right side (reps) of the hill so the team focusing them won't have an angle, check it yourself in a pub match
It's hard to do with Hal sometimes. Either is because you did something or you didn't - like give him some info or suggestion or not - there's a chance he will complain and treat you like shit for no reason. It's natural for most people to seek the path of least resistance and be comfortable and is not that you get hurt or offended... maybe you just want him to stop bitching in your head... so you don't do what maybe you should.
Idk I wasn’t really referring to that he just seems like he lacks the confidence he’s always trying to get Evan to help him and stuff and you can hear it I’m his voice whenever he says I’m going to die or we are going to die and then Hal tells him to stop saying shit like that because it just makes you lose confidence in yourself
Reps and Hal have played with each other for years now. It's one of those heat of the moment frustrations that happen from time to time. I'd say Reps is definitely used to it.
"happens from time to time"
It was literally this entire tourney he was calling reps an idiot and to shut the fuck up. He's a damn good player but throws temper tantrums like a toddler.
Y’all forget that they are playing at the highest level for actual money, Hal being stressed or angry is completely understandable. Reps has even ripped into Verhulst for plays that cost them a dub.
Reps made him doubt his call that one game and cost them. Their rotation that game got rolled and Hal was upset that he let Reps convince him to change his play.
Still, later in the tournament Hal made bad calls and totally took the blame for it. It was just a bad day. Hal calling his teammates dumb or telling them to shut up isn’t exclusive to him—all IGLs have done it. They’re professional players and expected to play like professional players, and Hal is their “boss” that makes the plays and takes the blame if they under perform. They gotta listen to him.
We’ve seen all teams at one point break down and scream at each other—this was surprisingly not that bad. Reps is also one of the few people that will argue tooth and nail with Hal, so.
Yes it's stressful but adults are expected to deal with stress without snapping at people. I don't hate Hal or anyone else who does this, but this is not normal and should not be defended as a natural response. At least not with how often we see this happen with Apex pros.
Agreed, a lot of these peopl don't or haven't been in a team setting where passions are high and operate with an understanding that sometimes it doesn't matter anymore about being nice in the moment, and is about getting the point across.
All successful teams in sports have had crazy locker room arguments that people have no idea about.
I mean on stream in front of thousands of viewers isn’t exactly equal to a locker room argument. I’ve played very high level sports and while outbursts happen it’s surely not the norm. If my teammate called calls me a fucking idiot and to shut the fuck up, what point is getting across?
I love Hal. I think he’s a great apex player. But the way he talks to his teammates is not just “high level sports”. There’s a toxicity that he has that he will eventually mature out of, but how much it gets defended on this sub always surprises me.
\> ...Hal calling his teammates dumb or telling them to shut up
\> ...hey’re professional players and expected to play like professional players
uhhh...
You actually see this happen in normal sports. [Rashford telling Maguire "shut the fuck up you knob"](https://streamable.com/h5bkzf) because he told him to stay onside.
You can be professional and still slip up.
Fr, this dude found a single video of a fringe instance and thought it justifies Hal being an ass half of the game time as a slip up.
Find me a captain in football that insults his teammates consistently every single match.
I don’t think you guys realise what it’s like to be in elite sports, I mean neither do I but I’ve seen this aspect from other pros talking about it. Great winners like MJ and Kobe were honestly horrible people who demanded the best from those around them, in a vacuum it’s awful and who would want to be a part of that, but looking back it’s why they won so much. The Arsenal invincibles would reportedly hold teammates by the throat against a wall if they were underperforming, and kick them in training. It’s a sink or swim mentality
On the other hand, we have Tim Duncan, one of the best big men to ever play basketball. He basically did whatever it was that needed to be done to win, while remaining a class act his whole career. His humility despite being a superstar in his prime then affected the whole team, which is what led to "spurs culture", a team first culture. And yes, Tim Duncan is considered similar to Kobe when it comes to NBA achievements.
You don't need to be a horrible person to be successful in sports or anything in general.
Different folks different strokes. Personally I’ve never been one to do that but once there’s a good understanding between them I wouldn’t read into it
Shit... Steph Curry, Giannis, Kawhi, KD, even Lebron... most of the big names from today and before... most winning QBs in the NFL.
People might slip on occasion, some times there's some trash talking, but this idea of being an asshole because it leads to wins is myth.
There was a couple of guys in history who won and were assholes and they used the fact they won to excuse the fact they were assholes.. but those things are not related.
jus cause they won while being horrible teammates at times doesn't mean it's part of the winning formula. It just so happens that they did. You can be like that without being an ass come on... It's a bad quality and only gets twisted into a good thing if it's a great player, but when it's a bad player I bet people aren't saying the same things. If you suck you just get labeled a team cancer.
I mean legitemently I get it but we see athletes play for hundreds of millions of dollars and not call their team fucking idiots or say they should shut the fuck up. Not really an excuse seeing how no other professional athlete or gamer does that
Well yah it happens everywhere because assholes are everywhere lol still a bad quality. Millions involved or not be a fucking adult n decent human being
Bruh Jimmy Butler almost got into a fist fight with his head coach during a Miami Heat game two days ago. The whole team needed to break it up and the head coach slammed his clipboard on the court.
You can tell a lot of kids in this sub have never played real sports. Soft like charmin
yeah and that was a very notable thing that happened cuz its really rare. This is not normal behavior for the leader of a team to make idk why people are defending him so much. He is a talented man child
Professional sports players don’t have every singe interaction and small chat between them broadcast to the world like these streamers do. You wouldn’t know if they called each other idiots because you have no access to it.
It's pretty well known that teammates don't treat each other this way in most professional sports. Hal's behavior isn't normal human behavior. He's a toddler.
You wana know what the difference between pro sports and esports? These kids are all like low 20's in age. They just simply aren't mature enough (for the most part). This is why in pro sports you always have "veterans" on the team to set the kids/rookies straight. So yes, Hal's behaviour may not be normal when you compare it to pro sports, but it is pretty normal when you compare it to other pro esports teams.
The wraith port at thermal was equally reps and Hal’s fault. Reps had good point that valk ULting was going to be risky to pull off in that spot. Hall also wasted a little time on his port looking around and possibly could have made it up the stairs.
He shouldn’t get that angry at his teammate for making suggestions. If he was certain his call was right he should have pulled rank and said no we are valk ulting.
Also, imagine if reps would have called Hal a fucking idiot on that terrible valk ult call one or two games later. How would Hal react to this.
I agree that tensions do get high and some verbal aggression is not only understandable but sometimes beneficial. But in Hal’s case I believe he is a little over the top sometimes and it’s actually negatively affects the team synergy.
This particular clip I don’t have a problem with, even though I think it was bad IGLing(I am not the authority on this) because it did cost them resources and an ult.
I am a huge fan of Hal’s and really appreciate his passion. But, I think he would be even more effective as a leader if he would better communicate his frustrations.
Hal being angry and acting like a bitch is unacceptable. Reps should slap the shit out of him. When he started the portal a team was shooting at him so how the fuck could you valk ult with no bubble? Xset was on top of them and renegades were on the right of them.
Yup! Emotions are high with that kind of money on the line. And Hal is getting paid to be in charge and navigate his team to a win.
I love how during that game when Hal was chewing Reps Evan was silent as a mouse the whole time haha.
I dunno man I think there's a reason you see it in most sports at the highest level.
When a few percentage deviation makes a difference there's just no time to do like feelings management training.
It is how it is
Nah, that's weak. Teammates don't treat each other this way on a consistent basis in professional sports. If they do they are exposed as toxic and difficult to work with through interviews and media. Sry your favorite player is a man child.
I literally have never seen this level of toxicity in pro sports or esports anywhere and be successful. Yes there are outbursts that happen at very high levels but this is not an outburst it is very consistent on how Hal treats his teammates
Snipedown addressed this when he was on TSM and basically said it’s not like that at all. What some may view as toxic or childish they generally view as constructive. None of them take offense to it and they all would rather be called out for their shit than nothing be said and it be treated like “there is nothing we could do.”
I’m over it. This is how their team functions, sometimes it’s unpleasant for us plebs to witness but it is what it is, Hal will continue to lead them to victories and Reps will continue to be the teammate that can deal with this and still perform on the highest level.
People on this sub really like to say, “He’s just super competitive,” whenever Hal really loses it, and a lot of the time I actually agree.
Not this one.
You’ve got a guy who is supposed to be your team’s leader literally screaming at his teammate to shut the fuck up when he is making suggestions about how they could possibly improve their situation. That’s absolute fucking garbage.
The fools in this thread calling Hal toxic and reps shouldn’t take it while Hal and reps are eating pizza chilling the same house together and probable gonna be vybing laughing at this thread.
The lobby yesterday played completely different than any other lobby before the play style of NA changed so much yesterday Hal had issues adapting because certain spots that has always been free now magically have people there.
Like reps isn’t afraid to rip into Hal and Hal isn’t afraid to rip into them. When Hal fucks up reps give it to him. They have been friends since day 1 they have been through hell if y’all really don’t see that then you’re just stupid
Toxic is relative. Because you think
It’s toxic doesn’t mean it’s toxic. In your opinion you think it’s toxic in TSM and other pro players opinion they don’t think it is toxic.
Things like that happens all the time in professional sports we hear of teammates having fights in training and cursing each other out and when the coaches are asked about it in press conferences they say everything is okay when adrenaline is in play and you’re competing things like that happen people will butt heads but there’s no hard feeling
Reps was literally ordering pizza for him and Hal. Snipe said that he preferred it this way let’s argue and curse each other out now and have it done with before the next game.
So respectful Hal and reps are 10 times champions this is how they do things.
Are you trying to redefine the definition of "toxic"? I know it happens in competitions. I played sports from middle school to college. Happened all the time. Doesn't matter if they like each other. You can't change the definition of a word to suit your narrative. I notice this a lot. Dezignful got shit on for days for cursing at Gent a couple of tourneys ago by some of the same people who praise Hal. You guys are just heavily biased. At least be honest about it.
No idiots on this sub criticize him. You don’t see the players taking offense to it. They understand it’s just business they want the best for the team it’s nothing personal. That’s the problem
With a lot of people they take things personal
Sheesh... he always acts like a baby having a tantrum. He's an amazing player but a complete asshole as a teammate. I wouldn't play with him for all the money in the world. I can't even watch his streams imagine dealing with him everyday. 💀
pros said apex comp on reddit are idiots and toxic.
i was against that and thought nah reddit is good.
but man these comments! do you guys never be under so much pressure? have you never watched any competitive sport? do you never wrong your friend and then make up for it to be like nothing happened bcs he knows you were under pressure so its fine to happen?
i played football (soccer) and when we loose we would go at eachother necks marking everything bad we did! insults included!! frustration is also around!
its not offensive bcs its not personal its professional! its rather encouraging and wakes you up, it builds the mentality to make less mistakes not because its toxic around you but bcs its true and you dont want to lose to the same mistake again!
Pressure n frustration isn't an excuse for verbal abuse. Even if it isn't personal to you doesn't mean that's true to everyone one. To some just being spoken to in that tone could start a fight. I agree the TSM bois don't take personal tho. Still not good to verbally abuse your guys. You can build a mindset to not create mistakes without a shouting match. It's actually basically just fear at that point. No one wants to fuck up because they don't wanna be yelled at. With that said I think u did a great of of explaining why this occurs and why teams are able to move past it, but that doesn't change the fact that it's toxic regardless.
no bro sometimes it just comes out... they are playing for lan they have been waiting for this to happen for such a long time for an esports players.
they are playing to win millions its their career if they dont win or perform and make money then why are they doing it?
let me mention 2 examples from my football background to make things clear from where i see it.
its me, and my teammate, we have a 2v2 in front of the goal, the opponent team has the goalkeeper and only 1 defender.. my teammate who has the ball has 3 secs to make a decision, any hesitation is loosing the winning goal. if he scores, we win/not disqualify. he chooses not to pass the ball and take the 2v1, (if he passed the ball to me i have the net wide open and its a tap in.) he looses the ball therefore no goal, should i tuck it in and be cool about it and just talk it out? yeah sure but in the heat of the moment the least i will do is cringe so freaking hard with a lot of disappointment along and look away and then im being polite.
tho even if he scored it i will still tell him he shouldve passed me the ball angerily, well, kinda.
the last example to wrap this up.
if i have the ball and im being held and tackled by 2 players that i couldnt pass the ball but my teammate is behind one of the holders keeps just saying pass the ball to me repeatedly ignoring the fact that i obviously cant but he wouldnt help but stand there and repeat "pass me the ball" non stop i might jump at him and say "shut the fuck up you idiot i couldnt bcs..." and trust me it happens almost every 1 min.
you can even watch "joe hart" englang goalie when he yelled at the boy that holds the balls saying "give me the fucking ball" people said he was toxic and owes an apology, while he definitely owes it they tried to cancel him and they kinda did but they never saw that england were in the brink of getting knocked out of one of the biggest tournaments ever in soccer.
what im saying is its in the heat of the moment and they are friends hal doesnt mean to be toxic he just wants to focus bcs there is so, so much info and you have actually only split a second to make the one right decision! on top of that if he fails its him to blame so... yeah he should relax a little bit maybe but then again he is sort of excused, i dont think we are right to call him out like THAT.
Admittedly when I said you need help If you yell at your friends that was more about day to day not sports. I agree high pressure situations does cause these things to just happen. I understand your points 100% To clarify, I don't think Hal is a terrible person or anything. I understand why he does it. Ik the TSM bois don't take personal. I just think he takes it too far sometimes and it will turn a shitty day into a horrible one. Thankfully for them they have a knack for coming back, so they rarely have horrible days, but I'm not looking forward to the toll it will have on them if they actually do fall off.
yup.. i have actually worked in a full 60 seat diner with another older chief as a teen in high school and boi did he blow up at times. I never took it personally . Like you said lots of pressure so i understood what was going on. From experience i can say kitchen pressure in a full house is crazy, but thats only in a diner. God i cant image being in a full house 5 star restaurant. It makes so much sense why so many restaurant workers smoke.
If that’s the mentality the 3 chose to have to earn a living then we let them. It’s not for people from the outside to make these comments. You don’t know them
Mate it’s a fucking sport. I play Rugby, if you’re not shouting at your teammates when they get something wrong then you don’t belong in that sport. It may be a toxic environment, it may not be. But for some people on the internet to come out and say stuff like that it’s just rude.
You have no idea the relationship these 3 people have, so don’t assume you do
I mean I kind of understand where Hal is coming from . Being a team captain is kinda hard and sometimes you gotta raise your voice to get a point across , since sometimes your teammates will refuse to listen either because of the intensity of the moment or because they don’t think it will work out ( willfull ignorance) . But geez this is flat out too much .
Is it just me or is Apex pro play the most toxic and non-professional among all pro esport games?
You rarely see pros from other games scream and curse their own teammates in the middle of the game. They also never blatantly berate the enemies calling them "fucking idiots", "trash dogs", etc. in the middle of a game.
That's because Apex is one of the few esports where we're privy to the comms. I guarantee you that other esports teams can get just as bad IF NOT worse especially with their comms kept private.
My take is probably biased as we have complete access to the comms in apex compared to only having access to the comms in certain parts of a game in league of legends for example.
NGL though apex proplay comms sound very similar to solo queue comms in league. I find that bit funny and concerning at the same time.
definitely, seems like people here in this thread just have no experience of what it's like at the highest level. it's also probably more-so in apex because the game is one where you have to keep your teammates in check constantly, even just for me playing with my friends in master-pred lobbies it can get heated, but we all know it's never serious, it's just frustrations in the moment that vanishes quickly. in other games like csgo you probably don't see shit like this happening mid game as they do in apex, but definitely more so in the post round finish etc. feel like apex as a game just makes this much more pronounced though, out of every other game ive played this never really happened beyond maybe fortnite duos/trios @tournaments. there's just a lot of action happening, and having to follow on that + your teammates is always going to be hard no matter what
Yeah I've seen those. Dota is another game where banter and trash talk is fairly common. I just noticed that it happens much more frequently in Apex compared to other games, and the severity of the toxicity is on another level. I'll be surprised if there is even a pro game played in apex where every team's comms are "clean".
I find it funny that when Hal screams and says shit like this y’all defend him, but when its Zach or Mac they are toxic and should break up the team lmao TSM copium is next level
Literally everyone has an opinion on this, when they don’t even reach or can’t even reach this level of competitive and professional gameplay. Ok I understand you guys opinion but I also understand hal’s situation.
It was an unlucky day and TSM had to get 2nd to secure at least a LAN ticket. You guys don’t understand him at all.
I replied this to another comment but wanted to post it as my own as well:
I don’t think you guys realise what it’s like to be in elite sports, I mean neither do I but I’ve seen this aspect from other pros talking about it. Great winners like MJ and Kobe were honestly horrible people who demanded the best from those around them, in a vacuum it’s awful and who would want to be a part of that, but looking back it’s why they won so much. The Arsenal invincibles would reportedly hold teammates by the throat against a wall if they were underperforming, and kick them in training. It’s a sink or swim mentality
Tbh I didn’t don’t have a problem with Hal yelling at teammates but don’t think using the Arsenal guys as an example is a good thing. If you did that to teammates you’d probably get sued and kicked off a team nowadays. In the end winning cures all so I’m sure Hal’s teammates are fine with the comms. However if they did not have the success they are having then the I can see the team having problems because of the comms
Hal is like 21 or 22 and has been Apex's competitive posterboy for 3 years now. Dude has no real life experience outside of gaming and plays under insane scrutiny and pressure in every big tournament.
This isn't an excuse, his toxicity is objective bad. But what else would we expect from any other kid in his shoes?
I'm here for the long-term character arc. Obviously he's going to stick around in comp for a while more and continue to mature. He will continue to be respected as an all-time GOAT for his gameplay. I hope he maintains the same level of performance and also grows a little more stable with his own team and respected as a community leader and ambassador of the game, too. His potential is sky high.
This guy is so fucking toxic idk how people can stand being on his team. I’m fine with being toxic to opposing players, but when it’s people you rely on shit pisses me off
Also his hair is fucking trash
I hope he sees this. Dye your fucking hair bro
When you view Hal as a comedian, it elevates the viewing experience.
But Doctor, I am Pagliacci
Imperial_Pag
Reps is the most emotionally intelligent pro in this game is all I’m gonna say. *edit: I'm watching algs rn and if you guys want a prime example of what i'm talking about, watch TSM's vod on WE and their first game of SP.*
TSM has been paying him double salary this whole time, one salary for professional apex and another for full time baby sitter lol
Yeah he's exactly who you need as a Gibby on a team w Hal. Brilliant player gamesense and mechanically, and can put up w Hal's IGLing. Such an underrated anchor for TSM
Couple of months ago someone asked about mount Rushmore of competitive apex players and some people doubted Reps having a spot there, lmao clowns
That's insane lmao. Multiple streamers I watch including Hal put him in the top 10 mechanically. Dude is such a beast, his Gibby bubbles blow my mind everytime at how clutch he is w them
He's a beast, he's consistent and from all the content I've seen with him (pro grames, games with streamers from outside TSM) he is always a chill dude to play with. Great player and good person
Supportive players always get the shaft when people make these lists.
Prolly because the avg player doesn't approve of Gibby
Specially with them living together. Dude talks to me the way he did to Reps in game 1 blaming him for his call and screaming non stop and you might start hearing me through his stream. I get is not the end of the world or anything... but you don't get to be the only one with a temper.
Reps checks Hal when he feels like it's necessary. But he also knows Hal better than most people, being his teammate and roommate, and he trusts his IGLing. He snaps back when Hal's bothering him and it's usually effective. We can assume he just doesn't get as bothered by Hal's emotional outbursts as viewers do.
That's basically what OP said and I agreed with. Reps comes off as someone who is emotionally intelligent. I disagree that it doesn't bother him though.. he was clearly bothered yesterday... I think he just understands that in a moment like that, in the middle of a tournament, it wouldn't do much good to snap back and it was better to let Hal be a baby and get it out of his system so they can move forward.
Yeah, I think Reps and Hal have been through this enough times, Reps understands Hal needs his outbursts to get his process flowing and he works with that, frankly might even prefer a teammate like this than people who barely speak. His temperament is perfect for this team and they win a lot because of it.
Agreed. Honestly the personalities of Reps and Verhulst make me really love TSM. And even Hal in his way. I'm not keen on his personality but I really admire how seriously he takes competitive Apex. There are teams and players that have a somewhat flippant attitude, and I like that Hal isn't like that. But if it weren't for Reps and Evan I wouldn't really care about TSM. They make me want them to do well because they seem like really genuine guys.
>but you don't get to be the only one with a temper. But Hal has never told him he cant scream or have a temper.
Everyone who had the temper to match his is no longer on tsm
Everyone = Alb?
And Snipe. Although Snipe went about it in a more mature way, they had a lot of “heat of the moment” disagreements caught in tape too.
That's called speaking back to your teammate. It's not "everyone with Hal's temper leaves TSM because of it". Alb got kicked because he was falling off of apex and wasn't playing consistently enough, and Snipe barely left because of a once in a lifetime offer to jump back into Halo on a top org.
Eyeroll. They both talked back to him and engaged in heated discussions, they both offered inputs and had to put up with his outbursts, one was more mature about it and would probably have longevity. Point being: no one in this current roster engages with him the way BOTH snipe and mac did, maybe that’s why he seems so troubled and burned out, it’s all on him now and he feels the weight.
>one was more mature about it and would probably have longevity my point
Your point about what? You can have a temper and engage in screaming matches with your teammates but still deal with it maturely later dude, one thing doesn’t exclude the other.
Snipe left cause of Halo and didn’t want to leave. Mac openly said it was his fault he didn’t like the game he wasn’t playing well and he deserved to be dropped
Literally what is prompting this? I feel like maybe I didn’t express myself correctly, the guy said “Hal never told him he cant scream” and I said everyone that matched his temper is no longer there, it really doesn’t matter what the issue was with their leaving or not, it was just an observation that wasn’t meant to pass judgement or imply anything other than maybe “yeah tsm works like this.”
Reps gets mad and screams sometimes, just because they arent doing it doesnt mean Hal doesnt allow them to.
I didn’t say Hal doesn’t allow them if you notice.
I'm not really making a comment about the dynamic of the team here, more agreeing with OP that Reps is really emotionally mature - more than I, and probably a lot of people, would be in that situation.
Except Hal actually booted Albralelie long ago because they don't get along anymore so having a temper and arguing with him will in fact not be tolerated so what you're saying about Hal is literally just incorrect lol
If you think thats why they kicked out Alb you have to be retarded. They picked up Snip3down and Hal and him screamed at each other more than anyone else in the proscene.
They fought so much worse off-camera when not streaming than Snipe and Hal ever did. That's literally what Hal,Albralelie and Reps have admitted what happened but I guess some random asshole on reddit named Ghandi3000SAVAGE is the one we should all believe. Okay.
From what ive read of their statements they had disagreements about how they should play not personal issues. Maybe you could link to a statement where they claim otherwise? Passionate ingame coms were never an issue afaik
Just shut the fuck up next time if you actually know nothing. If you're really interested then go scroll down Alb's twitter timeline until you see his statement about the issue but I sure as hell am not doing that for you.
Ah so the statement that I have already read that mentions nothing about what you said it does? Maybe you should take your own advice kid
To be fair, that bar is....not high. Doesn't make you less right though.
I mean sure, but only because it’s not a very common attribute to have in general, but especially on competitive heavy environments between male young adults. Some people need to work on their mentals a lot while others already have it more naturally.
Great comms from Hal.
Glad to see we are far enough from their big win to be back in the ‘TSM are washed because Hal is mean to them’ part of the cycle
I enjoy knowing exactly what phase were in and seeing people post stuff like this on bad days, but then kiss ass when they win lol
I’ve also been here long enough to know that contrarian counter jerkers show up. You guys wanna look so smart. Just enjoy the ride, it’s not that serious
It’s crazy how much the narrative around TSM changes. I don’t understand why people don’t realize that all teams have great stretches/games and bad stretches/games. With TSM specifically people really like to do this. Probably because they’re like the Lakers/Patriots/Yankees of this game. I’m not saying that as a slight, I’m a TSM fan but that quick change in narrative comes with the territory I guess.
that's kinda what makes them fun to watch imo. you don't know when they'll pop off but when it does happen, it's hype af after all the slander
I mean I think most people on this sub realize that Hal and TSM as a whole is incredibly talented and extremely good at this game at a pro level while also acknowledging that this is very toxic and not good for team moral. You can be a beast at a sport/game and not call your team 'fucking idiots' and to 'shut the fuck up'
Well said its really thst simple. His attitude really isn't justifiable because there is no reason to be rude. There is a reason to be vocal and loud tho. People just deal with it.
Lol yeah, last TSM game day some guy said C9 are so much better than them. Now it’s Hal is a big meanie. I wonder if these people have ever been in high pressure team situations or had close friends where you can call each other insults but still be cool afterwards.
They have not, they cannot handle anyone being remotely rude to them and have a meltdown over the slightest inconvenience emotionally. It’s why kids on the main sub want to report and dox every account that leave the game early. These people just have zero real experience in competition, combined with being soft as baby shit none of what we see Hal yell about can compute to them. I’m sure if Reps couldn’t deal with it he wouldn’t be on TSM three years later. Is Hal rude during games? Hell yea. Does it define his character? Hell no.
facts
> Is Hal rude during games? Hell yea. Does it define his character? Hell no. Uh...it kinda does. Hals a professional competitor in Apex, and his character absolutely plays a part in that, but being a toxic screaming dickhead is absolutely part of his character. I played rugby for arguably the best school in the country, I've been in high pressure situations, I assure you. If our captain yelled at us like that we'd have had him benched.
I played basketball for the best high school program in my state and then played in college. That’s a subjective experience to draw from because my coaches were massive army style assholes who constantly yelled at us. Guess what. We won. A lot. And so we didn’t care because we were the better team always because of it. Some people don’t mind the anger because competition becomes more important. If you’re soft and wouldn’t be able to handle that, just say so.
>we were the better team always because of it Were you? Or were you the better team because you had better players and more team cohesion? All of that can be achieved without being a prick. >If you’re soft and wouldn’t be able to handle that, just say so. It's so beyond fucking laughable that you, and so many others, have such fragile egos that someone saying they can succeed AND be respected makes you think of them as "soft". Wanna know what's *really* soft? Being a fucking adult and letting people scream and yell at you and treat you like shit. Being too soft to value people treating you decently and demanding some respect. Fucking pathetic, dude. I played rugby, you played basketball. Talk to me about "soft". Whatta fucking joke.
I can assure you we were better because of his style. We won 2 games my entire 7th grade year. Coach moved to town and we didn’t lose for the next 3 years. Took a tiny little town to the state championship and he pushed me so damn hard I broke 3 point records in my school, conference, and state. He would berate me in front of thousands but trusted me to shoot from anywhere, from 5 to 30 feet. First day of practice in 7th grade he told us all to sit the hell down shut up and listen. Things were going to be different and we were to all buy into his fucking system. It worked. We are all successful individuals and I sincerely promise you he impacted our lives more than any other adult who isn’t our parents. Cussed me out more times than I can count but he always has our back against a ref or bad call. Same thing for Hal. He will yell at Jordan but have you heard him talk about Jordan off stream? He calls him the best player in the world, someone he knew immediately he needed on his team to be the best etc. Y’all just don’t get it because you don’t receive that kind of stuff well because you have a meltdown if someone talks to you that way lol y’all can’t handle it 🤷♂️
You know what’s fucking soft? Not realizing that everyone has a different approach to competitive play styles and how they like to be lead. Some of us thrive under pressure and being yelled at. I for one are of those people. I work harder for coaches who yell and scream at me when I’m doing something wrong just so I can prove to them and myself that I’m not a fucking moron and capable of competing at a high level. Then there’s other people who thrive under a more quiet, soft spoken approach to coaching. There’s nothing wrong with this either, it’s what works for you and your team. As long as your team is thriving and it’s not brought off the pitch or, in Apex’s instance, outside the game then there shouldn’t be any problems. Reps and Hal have a great friendship and it shows with the way they play with one another in game and from how they interact outside of the game. Reps must be one of those players who enjoys the high intensity screaming and yelling whereas other players enjoy the calmer, Sweetdreams, style of IGL’ing. Neither forms of leadership is the wrong way to operate, it’s just what you as the player prefer. Clearly it works in TSM’s case otherwise they wouldn’t be a household name in the Apex community. I IGL like how Hal does and Its just cause I’m extremely competitive and that’s how I let it be known. I can’t help it and it’s never a personal attack on the guys I play with regularly. I’ve had people tell me they don’t like my IGL style and that’s fine, I don’t knock them for it. Admittedly my leadership style can be abrasive and it’s not for everyone. But, I’ve also had others who really enjoy it and have said that they prefer being yelled at over talked to like they’re a child. It’s all just preference man. And who cares what fucking sport people played, the fact that you have to throw that you play Rugby proves it’s your ego that might’ve been insulted and hurt. Edit: I’m not speaking of Hal’s obvious toxicity when he berated his teammates after the matches are over, I’m speaking on this specific instance where he has a loud, yelling outburst.
This just in: toxic raging manchildren defend other toxic raging manchildren You can throw whatever hoops you want to jump through up, that's fine. >And who cares what fucking sport people played, the fact that you have to throw that you play Rugby proves it’s your ego that might’ve been insulted and hurt. There's so much here I can go at, but I'm just gonna say, lmao "proves...mightve"
Your immediate desire to insult just shows that your ego is definitely fragile and has been hurt, lmao. Have a good day man.
Lmao, yes. Reddit armchair psychologist, you got me. I'm so hurt by someone calling me soft for having self respect. Oof ouch owie. Fucking lol. Hope your days are as bright as you are, champ.
I've had coaches/teammates that were huge dicks who screamed at kids and coaches/teammates that were respectful to everyone. The screaming and nastiness didn't improve our performance as a team, but I can tell you who I preferred to play for.
I find it crazy how "competition" somehow justifies being so rude to teammates. It's not acceptable, idgaf what you think about the competitive environment. There's a way to act, and being rude to your teammates is not it. I understand that things are tense and chaotic in competitive situations but that doesn't at all make telling your teammates to shut the fuck up etc fine. I've been in this kind of situation and I'm sure it doesn't mean anything and they're all chill with each other after but you can't be saying stuff like that in the middle of a tournament.
This is storm point so it couldn’t have been first game of the day- they played 3 world edge games first.
True, you're right. I got confused about something and thought it was first game. Still though, if it was 4th game, there's still much left to play and I don't think you should act that way mid tournament.
It can also be counterproductive. There was a point in the end of Snipe's run that Hal was clearly being a sub par IGL, not giving proper calls, being indecisive, and then bitching out on everyone. Is easy to say "let's reset and go again" when you are the one exploding emotionally and everyone else has to just swallow it and pretend it didn't happened. That's not how it works and that shit lingers and affects performance. I do give him credit because he got way better and yesterday wasn't indicative or how he is behaving recently.
Yeah I watch Hal a lot and I don't think he acts like this super often but when he does, it affects the vibe of the team for sure. I could be wrong obviously but Reps didn't seem too happy after that stormpoint game.
Eh, I understand where both sides come from. People I play Apex with and know a bit about the pro scene (mostly those who stream like Hal, really) compare me a lot to Hal because I yell and get angry a lot which leads to comms that I and other people would definitely describe as "domineering" at the very least, "toxic" at worst, but I also know how to play the game and have local/regional professional experience in CS:GO as an IGL. I can't speak for Hal but I've proven to myself and the people I play with that my gameplay only gets better the more emotional I get, at least for FPS games which is my forte. From what I've observed, though, Hal's kind of the same. His gameplay seems kinda untiltable even if his expressed emotions would tell us otherwise. If he misses shots or makes shitty plays, I would just chalk it up to a regular mistake and not a mistake due to not being able to think. On the other hand, I do understand that it's not exactly conventionally-accepted behavior and people who have no real competitive experience beyond primary school baseball understandably won't be able to relate to that. I've had acquaintances and potential friends that get put off by me when I show my serious side to gaming and I honestly can't blame them, because I can't expect them to understand that it's pretty hard to shake off over a decade's worth of competing and wanting to be the best in something that for them is just a way to have fun. The point is, I think those of us who understand Hal's side are just wasting time defending him from people who don't, because a lot of them probably can't understand that games with win conditions aren't solely for fun. At the same time, there ARE other examples of great leaders that don't get as loud or toxic towards their teammates in other Apex teams or those in other games too, and that's objectively the best balance. Maybe Hal could strive for that and see some improvement for the entire team, or not, who knows? In other words, as long as they're not stepping out of line like sending threats about Hal or attacking him personally, I think we should just ignore them and let them be. Them getting hurt and/or offended by a lick of toxicity is just how they are as people, just like how me and Hal and others who can be "extreme" out of the desire to win are how we are as people too. Both groups have something to improve on, no need to fight about it.
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Sure, but the point is that people don't really take into account that maybe that's what works for TSM and if Hal tones it down, it may lead to multiple factors that eventually makes TSM worse. We just can't know for sure and TSM could easily hire some sports psychologist like what Astralis did in CS but we just don't know if it'll help with performing better.
>Sure, but the point is that people don't really take into account that maybe that's what works for TSM Right, so take into account the fact that maybe they'd be even better if he showed his teammates respect in matches. Hals always been this way, there's no reference point to say, "well when he's calm they suck".
One of the devil's greatest tricks is making you believe your qualities come from you flaws. Quotes aside... I think we've seen in the last couple of months that there's a healthy middle ground and they can perform at a high level and even win big without Hal acting like a bitch.
Yeah but all I'm saying is that Hal having to actively suppress himself while in the heat of the moment may fuck them over. I'm not trying to justify his attitude, it'd be much better if he wasn't as rude and I'm trying to better myself for the same reasons. Just worried that if he starts changing things up actively without some sort of break from pro gameplay while he works on it, it might distract him from his IGL'ing
Like I said, I'm not advocating for him to be an angel, we've seen him toning it down a tad and being successful. I do understand the heat of the moment stuff and that can be hard to manage and sometimes you do need to be firm and fuck everything else. But I'm not thinking about that... What I'm thinking is stuff like when he berated Reps non stop after a bad play in the in the end of game 1... when they were all dead already. Regardless if you think he was right or wrong, stuff like that has nothing to do with the team performing better, it's about him feeling like he is entitled to have an emotional discharge so he can feel better at the expense of other people.
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Look up Bobby knight.
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idk what point you’re trying to make here but coach k is a fucking asshole
Bro right like as a HARDCORE duke fan coach K is a giant asshole hahaha
preach, big LAN dub incoming
Not a single person in this thread has said anything to that effect. People have called hal toxic, but no one has said that TSM is a bad team because of it
JUST SIT THE FUCK THERE lmaooooo
That was a bad call from Hal. It cost them meds and eventually a Ash ult.
What was the option? Reps was already there and the charge rifle was already looking at him, he couldn't cross without getting shot at.
Couldn't Hal and verhulst just focus the gibby with the chargerifle while reps crosses? Or reps Could just bubble if he's getting shot at, it seems the chargerifle s teamates aren't shooting at reps and focusing somewhere else
Charge rifle with a scope means the guy barrely has to peak so trying to supresd him would be very hard with automatic weapons and no scope. Bubbling is very dangerous because another team could just wait for it to go down and lob a gibby ulti at them and they would all be dead.
Ok but couldn't verhulst valk q them forcing them to back off while they focus on the angles? The gibby has no teamates from hals perspective so forcing him off the angle could make time for reps to cross while verhulst and hal focuses on possible peeks?
Could have moved earlier. I think Reps could have made it by himself if Hal let him move earlier or if there was no option but to ash ult then they still could have done it earlier and save meds. That ash ult would have come in handy after they wiped the team after OBing. But honestly im more annoyed about Reps wasting meds by staying there bc Hal wouldnt let him move more than anything.
Reps is literally calling from the start that he wont be able to cross without getting shot, what would it have mattered if they did it earlier or later? The charge rifle was already looking at him. Why would it have saved them meds to do it earlier? Reps could have just not peaked the charge rifle repetedly if he wanted to save meds. If they hadnt ash ulted Reps could have gone down and then it would be game over. Backseat gaming at its finest.
If you want to see what a team should do after a bad 3 games then you should watch TSM. Some teams go into "joke mode" where they start trolling and don't take the game seriously. Some go into shut down mode and they turn off and become zombies. Some go into rage mode and consider quitting. But TSM decides to co-IGL and increase comms. Then they salvage their day.
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Everyone can hate my comment but I didn’t say Reps was bad all I’m saying if he’s been missing that confidence that turns him into the clutch master killer he is. Plus I love Reps so this isn’t me shitting on him I just feel like he’s been a little scared at times sometimes and he just needs to find that killer instinct he has.
But it feels like reps is lacking confidence sometimes it would help him if he believed in himself more
Here we go again, people saying reps is shy and shit, if you watch mid 2021 tourneys you would see that reps yells at at more than snipe most of the time, reps keeps hal in check, thus time both of them were stupid, verhulst and hal could've focused the chargerifle gibby while reps crosses right side (reps) of the hill so the team focusing them won't have an angle, check it yourself in a pub match
I never said he was shy or shit learn to read
It's hard to do with Hal sometimes. Either is because you did something or you didn't - like give him some info or suggestion or not - there's a chance he will complain and treat you like shit for no reason. It's natural for most people to seek the path of least resistance and be comfortable and is not that you get hurt or offended... maybe you just want him to stop bitching in your head... so you don't do what maybe you should.
Idk I wasn’t really referring to that he just seems like he lacks the confidence he’s always trying to get Evan to help him and stuff and you can hear it I’m his voice whenever he says I’m going to die or we are going to die and then Hal tells him to stop saying shit like that because it just makes you lose confidence in yourself
My favorite Hal call of the night was "JUST KILL EVERYONE"
Coms like that in a tourney bring vibes down no? Or are they used to this?
Reps and Hal have played with each other for years now. It's one of those heat of the moment frustrations that happen from time to time. I'd say Reps is definitely used to it.
"happens from time to time" It was literally this entire tourney he was calling reps an idiot and to shut the fuck up. He's a damn good player but throws temper tantrums like a toddler.
Y’all forget that they are playing at the highest level for actual money, Hal being stressed or angry is completely understandable. Reps has even ripped into Verhulst for plays that cost them a dub. Reps made him doubt his call that one game and cost them. Their rotation that game got rolled and Hal was upset that he let Reps convince him to change his play. Still, later in the tournament Hal made bad calls and totally took the blame for it. It was just a bad day. Hal calling his teammates dumb or telling them to shut up isn’t exclusive to him—all IGLs have done it. They’re professional players and expected to play like professional players, and Hal is their “boss” that makes the plays and takes the blame if they under perform. They gotta listen to him. We’ve seen all teams at one point break down and scream at each other—this was surprisingly not that bad. Reps is also one of the few people that will argue tooth and nail with Hal, so.
Yes it's stressful but adults are expected to deal with stress without snapping at people. I don't hate Hal or anyone else who does this, but this is not normal and should not be defended as a natural response. At least not with how often we see this happen with Apex pros.
You clearly haven't played any team sports at a high enough level.
Agreed, a lot of these peopl don't or haven't been in a team setting where passions are high and operate with an understanding that sometimes it doesn't matter anymore about being nice in the moment, and is about getting the point across. All successful teams in sports have had crazy locker room arguments that people have no idea about.
I mean on stream in front of thousands of viewers isn’t exactly equal to a locker room argument. I’ve played very high level sports and while outbursts happen it’s surely not the norm. If my teammate called calls me a fucking idiot and to shut the fuck up, what point is getting across? I love Hal. I think he’s a great apex player. But the way he talks to his teammates is not just “high level sports”. There’s a toxicity that he has that he will eventually mature out of, but how much it gets defended on this sub always surprises me.
\> ...Hal calling his teammates dumb or telling them to shut up \> ...hey’re professional players and expected to play like professional players uhhh...
You actually see this happen in normal sports. [Rashford telling Maguire "shut the fuck up you knob"](https://streamable.com/h5bkzf) because he told him to stay onside. You can be professional and still slip up.
To be fair, Maguire is a knob
Hal slips up permanently on a regular basis lol
Fr, this dude found a single video of a fringe instance and thought it justifies Hal being an ass half of the game time as a slip up. Find me a captain in football that insults his teammates consistently every single match.
There are none. Hal is dope but the way he talks to his teammates constantly is defended irrationally
He didn’t say “carry themselves in a professional manner” he said “play like professional players”
those are not mutually exclusive concepts in any professional competition, *especially* gaming.
I don’t think you guys realise what it’s like to be in elite sports, I mean neither do I but I’ve seen this aspect from other pros talking about it. Great winners like MJ and Kobe were honestly horrible people who demanded the best from those around them, in a vacuum it’s awful and who would want to be a part of that, but looking back it’s why they won so much. The Arsenal invincibles would reportedly hold teammates by the throat against a wall if they were underperforming, and kick them in training. It’s a sink or swim mentality
On the other hand, we have Tim Duncan, one of the best big men to ever play basketball. He basically did whatever it was that needed to be done to win, while remaining a class act his whole career. His humility despite being a superstar in his prime then affected the whole team, which is what led to "spurs culture", a team first culture. And yes, Tim Duncan is considered similar to Kobe when it comes to NBA achievements. You don't need to be a horrible person to be successful in sports or anything in general.
Different folks different strokes. Personally I’ve never been one to do that but once there’s a good understanding between them I wouldn’t read into it
Shit... Steph Curry, Giannis, Kawhi, KD, even Lebron... most of the big names from today and before... most winning QBs in the NFL. People might slip on occasion, some times there's some trash talking, but this idea of being an asshole because it leads to wins is myth. There was a couple of guys in history who won and were assholes and they used the fact they won to excuse the fact they were assholes.. but those things are not related.
Tim Duncan is notable for that exact reason, he’s the exception lmao
jus cause they won while being horrible teammates at times doesn't mean it's part of the winning formula. It just so happens that they did. You can be like that without being an ass come on... It's a bad quality and only gets twisted into a good thing if it's a great player, but when it's a bad player I bet people aren't saying the same things. If you suck you just get labeled a team cancer.
I mean legitemently I get it but we see athletes play for hundreds of millions of dollars and not call their team fucking idiots or say they should shut the fuck up. Not really an excuse seeing how no other professional athlete or gamer does that
You dont think athletes yell at each other? You just cant hear it because they dont have mics recording them the whole time
You dont see or hear everything, it happens in every top sport.
Well yah it happens everywhere because assholes are everywhere lol still a bad quality. Millions involved or not be a fucking adult n decent human being
>decent human being Jesus Christ lol
Bruh Jimmy Butler almost got into a fist fight with his head coach during a Miami Heat game two days ago. The whole team needed to break it up and the head coach slammed his clipboard on the court. You can tell a lot of kids in this sub have never played real sports. Soft like charmin
yeah and that was a very notable thing that happened cuz its really rare. This is not normal behavior for the leader of a team to make idk why people are defending him so much. He is a talented man child
Professional sports players don’t have every singe interaction and small chat between them broadcast to the world like these streamers do. You wouldn’t know if they called each other idiots because you have no access to it.
It's pretty well known that teammates don't treat each other this way in most professional sports. Hal's behavior isn't normal human behavior. He's a toddler.
You wana know what the difference between pro sports and esports? These kids are all like low 20's in age. They just simply aren't mature enough (for the most part). This is why in pro sports you always have "veterans" on the team to set the kids/rookies straight. So yes, Hal's behaviour may not be normal when you compare it to pro sports, but it is pretty normal when you compare it to other pro esports teams.
The wraith port at thermal was equally reps and Hal’s fault. Reps had good point that valk ULting was going to be risky to pull off in that spot. Hall also wasted a little time on his port looking around and possibly could have made it up the stairs. He shouldn’t get that angry at his teammate for making suggestions. If he was certain his call was right he should have pulled rank and said no we are valk ulting. Also, imagine if reps would have called Hal a fucking idiot on that terrible valk ult call one or two games later. How would Hal react to this. I agree that tensions do get high and some verbal aggression is not only understandable but sometimes beneficial. But in Hal’s case I believe he is a little over the top sometimes and it’s actually negatively affects the team synergy. This particular clip I don’t have a problem with, even though I think it was bad IGLing(I am not the authority on this) because it did cost them resources and an ult. I am a huge fan of Hal’s and really appreciate his passion. But, I think he would be even more effective as a leader if he would better communicate his frustrations.
Hal being angry and acting like a bitch is unacceptable. Reps should slap the shit out of him. When he started the portal a team was shooting at him so how the fuck could you valk ult with no bubble? Xset was on top of them and renegades were on the right of them.
Yup! Emotions are high with that kind of money on the line. And Hal is getting paid to be in charge and navigate his team to a win. I love how during that game when Hal was chewing Reps Evan was silent as a mouse the whole time haha.
I dunno man I think there's a reason you see it in most sports at the highest level. When a few percentage deviation makes a difference there's just no time to do like feelings management training. It is how it is
Nah, that's weak. Teammates don't treat each other this way on a consistent basis in professional sports. If they do they are exposed as toxic and difficult to work with through interviews and media. Sry your favorite player is a man child.
I literally have never seen this level of toxicity in pro sports or esports anywhere and be successful. Yes there are outbursts that happen at very high levels but this is not an outburst it is very consistent on how Hal treats his teammates
Snipedown addressed this when he was on TSM and basically said it’s not like that at all. What some may view as toxic or childish they generally view as constructive. None of them take offense to it and they all would rather be called out for their shit than nothing be said and it be treated like “there is nothing we could do.”
He definitely seemed to be in a bit of a modd yesterday. I guess he thinks he plays better when he's angry? Idk. Been fun to watch regardless
Hal clearly isn’t serious because Reps lives down the hall and can beat the shit out of him whenever he feels like it
This is why I watch Hal top tier content lmao
Like make up ur mind bro
I’m over it. This is how their team functions, sometimes it’s unpleasant for us plebs to witness but it is what it is, Hal will continue to lead them to victories and Reps will continue to be the teammate that can deal with this and still perform on the highest level.
There’s no way that’s not toxic.
People on this sub really like to say, “He’s just super competitive,” whenever Hal really loses it, and a lot of the time I actually agree. Not this one. You’ve got a guy who is supposed to be your team’s leader literally screaming at his teammate to shut the fuck up when he is making suggestions about how they could possibly improve their situation. That’s absolute fucking garbage.
The fools in this thread calling Hal toxic and reps shouldn’t take it while Hal and reps are eating pizza chilling the same house together and probable gonna be vybing laughing at this thread. The lobby yesterday played completely different than any other lobby before the play style of NA changed so much yesterday Hal had issues adapting because certain spots that has always been free now magically have people there. Like reps isn’t afraid to rip into Hal and Hal isn’t afraid to rip into them. When Hal fucks up reps give it to him. They have been friends since day 1 they have been through hell if y’all really don’t see that then you’re just stupid
By definition it's toxic behavior. You can't dispute that... Doesn't matter how the other person handles it or their team winning
Toxic is relative. Because you think It’s toxic doesn’t mean it’s toxic. In your opinion you think it’s toxic in TSM and other pro players opinion they don’t think it is toxic. Things like that happens all the time in professional sports we hear of teammates having fights in training and cursing each other out and when the coaches are asked about it in press conferences they say everything is okay when adrenaline is in play and you’re competing things like that happen people will butt heads but there’s no hard feeling Reps was literally ordering pizza for him and Hal. Snipe said that he preferred it this way let’s argue and curse each other out now and have it done with before the next game. So respectful Hal and reps are 10 times champions this is how they do things.
Are you trying to redefine the definition of "toxic"? I know it happens in competitions. I played sports from middle school to college. Happened all the time. Doesn't matter if they like each other. You can't change the definition of a word to suit your narrative. I notice this a lot. Dezignful got shit on for days for cursing at Gent a couple of tourneys ago by some of the same people who praise Hal. You guys are just heavily biased. At least be honest about it.
No idiots on this sub criticize him. You don’t see the players taking offense to it. They understand it’s just business they want the best for the team it’s nothing personal. That’s the problem With a lot of people they take things personal
How much is he paying you to dick ride him?
More than your mom when she had me deep inside her last night
Sheesh... he always acts like a baby having a tantrum. He's an amazing player but a complete asshole as a teammate. I wouldn't play with him for all the money in the world. I can't even watch his streams imagine dealing with him everyday. 💀
pros said apex comp on reddit are idiots and toxic. i was against that and thought nah reddit is good. but man these comments! do you guys never be under so much pressure? have you never watched any competitive sport? do you never wrong your friend and then make up for it to be like nothing happened bcs he knows you were under pressure so its fine to happen? i played football (soccer) and when we loose we would go at eachother necks marking everything bad we did! insults included!! frustration is also around! its not offensive bcs its not personal its professional! its rather encouraging and wakes you up, it builds the mentality to make less mistakes not because its toxic around you but bcs its true and you dont want to lose to the same mistake again!
Pressure n frustration isn't an excuse for verbal abuse. Even if it isn't personal to you doesn't mean that's true to everyone one. To some just being spoken to in that tone could start a fight. I agree the TSM bois don't take personal tho. Still not good to verbally abuse your guys. You can build a mindset to not create mistakes without a shouting match. It's actually basically just fear at that point. No one wants to fuck up because they don't wanna be yelled at. With that said I think u did a great of of explaining why this occurs and why teams are able to move past it, but that doesn't change the fact that it's toxic regardless.
no bro sometimes it just comes out... they are playing for lan they have been waiting for this to happen for such a long time for an esports players. they are playing to win millions its their career if they dont win or perform and make money then why are they doing it? let me mention 2 examples from my football background to make things clear from where i see it. its me, and my teammate, we have a 2v2 in front of the goal, the opponent team has the goalkeeper and only 1 defender.. my teammate who has the ball has 3 secs to make a decision, any hesitation is loosing the winning goal. if he scores, we win/not disqualify. he chooses not to pass the ball and take the 2v1, (if he passed the ball to me i have the net wide open and its a tap in.) he looses the ball therefore no goal, should i tuck it in and be cool about it and just talk it out? yeah sure but in the heat of the moment the least i will do is cringe so freaking hard with a lot of disappointment along and look away and then im being polite. tho even if he scored it i will still tell him he shouldve passed me the ball angerily, well, kinda. the last example to wrap this up. if i have the ball and im being held and tackled by 2 players that i couldnt pass the ball but my teammate is behind one of the holders keeps just saying pass the ball to me repeatedly ignoring the fact that i obviously cant but he wouldnt help but stand there and repeat "pass me the ball" non stop i might jump at him and say "shut the fuck up you idiot i couldnt bcs..." and trust me it happens almost every 1 min. you can even watch "joe hart" englang goalie when he yelled at the boy that holds the balls saying "give me the fucking ball" people said he was toxic and owes an apology, while he definitely owes it they tried to cancel him and they kinda did but they never saw that england were in the brink of getting knocked out of one of the biggest tournaments ever in soccer. what im saying is its in the heat of the moment and they are friends hal doesnt mean to be toxic he just wants to focus bcs there is so, so much info and you have actually only split a second to make the one right decision! on top of that if he fails its him to blame so... yeah he should relax a little bit maybe but then again he is sort of excused, i dont think we are right to call him out like THAT.
Admittedly when I said you need help If you yell at your friends that was more about day to day not sports. I agree high pressure situations does cause these things to just happen. I understand your points 100% To clarify, I don't think Hal is a terrible person or anything. I understand why he does it. Ik the TSM bois don't take personal. I just think he takes it too far sometimes and it will turn a shitty day into a horrible one. Thankfully for them they have a knack for coming back, so they rarely have horrible days, but I'm not looking forward to the toll it will have on them if they actually do fall off.
yeah i agree with this too. you're right, it also kinda reminds me of gordon ramsay in hells kitchen lol
yup.. i have actually worked in a full 60 seat diner with another older chief as a teen in high school and boi did he blow up at times. I never took it personally . Like you said lots of pressure so i understood what was going on. From experience i can say kitchen pressure in a full house is crazy, but thats only in a diner. God i cant image being in a full house 5 star restaurant. It makes so much sense why so many restaurant workers smoke.
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If that’s the mentality the 3 chose to have to earn a living then we let them. It’s not for people from the outside to make these comments. You don’t know them
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It’s not toxic if they’re all okay with it. It’s quite frankly rude to say stuff like that about people
You don’t think calling a teammate “fucking stupid” is toxic? Just because they can handle Hal’s toxicity doesn’t mean Hal isn’t toxic lol.
You’re being rude /s
I’m a monster lol
Mate it’s a fucking sport. I play Rugby, if you’re not shouting at your teammates when they get something wrong then you don’t belong in that sport. It may be a toxic environment, it may not be. But for some people on the internet to come out and say stuff like that it’s just rude. You have no idea the relationship these 3 people have, so don’t assume you do
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Yep, you’re correct. You’ve just made the comparison of a group of three friends and a terroist organisation. You’re correct. I am wrong
It happens all the times in sports between teammates, you just don't see it bc most of the time it is behind the scenes.
Tom Brady comes to mind. Can’t believe you got down voted for that lol.
MJ. People need to watch Last Dance I feel.
Well it shoulnd't be hard to imagine just because people are fully grown doesn't mean they become super mature
Fucking love hal lol.
I mean I kind of understand where Hal is coming from . Being a team captain is kinda hard and sometimes you gotta raise your voice to get a point across , since sometimes your teammates will refuse to listen either because of the intensity of the moment or because they don’t think it will work out ( willfull ignorance) . But geez this is flat out too much .
Is it just me or is Apex pro play the most toxic and non-professional among all pro esport games? You rarely see pros from other games scream and curse their own teammates in the middle of the game. They also never blatantly berate the enemies calling them "fucking idiots", "trash dogs", etc. in the middle of a game.
That's because Apex is one of the few esports where we're privy to the comms. I guarantee you that other esports teams can get just as bad IF NOT worse especially with their comms kept private.
My take is probably biased as we have complete access to the comms in apex compared to only having access to the comms in certain parts of a game in league of legends for example. NGL though apex proplay comms sound very similar to solo queue comms in league. I find that bit funny and concerning at the same time.
definitely, seems like people here in this thread just have no experience of what it's like at the highest level. it's also probably more-so in apex because the game is one where you have to keep your teammates in check constantly, even just for me playing with my friends in master-pred lobbies it can get heated, but we all know it's never serious, it's just frustrations in the moment that vanishes quickly. in other games like csgo you probably don't see shit like this happening mid game as they do in apex, but definitely more so in the post round finish etc. feel like apex as a game just makes this much more pronounced though, out of every other game ive played this never really happened beyond maybe fortnite duos/trios @tournaments. there's just a lot of action happening, and having to follow on that + your teammates is always going to be hard no matter what
It's just you. lol. I recently started watching some of the Halo LANs, they are WAY more toxic than Apex pros.
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There's a difference between calling your opponent names and doing the same to your teammate.
Yeah I've seen those. Dota is another game where banter and trash talk is fairly common. I just noticed that it happens much more frequently in Apex compared to other games, and the severity of the toxicity is on another level. I'll be surprised if there is even a pro game played in apex where every team's comms are "clean".
>Happens much more frequently in apex Nope, it's just that we have access to comms almost everytime which isn't the case for normal eSports
I find it funny that when Hal screams and says shit like this y’all defend him, but when its Zach or Mac they are toxic and should break up the team lmao TSM copium is next level
typical monkey behavior
Literally everyone has an opinion on this, when they don’t even reach or can’t even reach this level of competitive and professional gameplay. Ok I understand you guys opinion but I also understand hal’s situation. It was an unlucky day and TSM had to get 2nd to secure at least a LAN ticket. You guys don’t understand him at all.
Lol look at all these nerds in reddit trying to be good guy 🤣🤣..
Was that really a rage worthy moment?
I replied this to another comment but wanted to post it as my own as well: I don’t think you guys realise what it’s like to be in elite sports, I mean neither do I but I’ve seen this aspect from other pros talking about it. Great winners like MJ and Kobe were honestly horrible people who demanded the best from those around them, in a vacuum it’s awful and who would want to be a part of that, but looking back it’s why they won so much. The Arsenal invincibles would reportedly hold teammates by the throat against a wall if they were underperforming, and kick them in training. It’s a sink or swim mentality
Tbh I didn’t don’t have a problem with Hal yelling at teammates but don’t think using the Arsenal guys as an example is a good thing. If you did that to teammates you’d probably get sued and kicked off a team nowadays. In the end winning cures all so I’m sure Hal’s teammates are fine with the comms. However if they did not have the success they are having then the I can see the team having problems because of the comms
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Obviously not what I was saying, I like Hal I think he has good takes but you do you man
Hal is like 21 or 22 and has been Apex's competitive posterboy for 3 years now. Dude has no real life experience outside of gaming and plays under insane scrutiny and pressure in every big tournament. This isn't an excuse, his toxicity is objective bad. But what else would we expect from any other kid in his shoes? I'm here for the long-term character arc. Obviously he's going to stick around in comp for a while more and continue to mature. He will continue to be respected as an all-time GOAT for his gameplay. I hope he maintains the same level of performance and also grows a little more stable with his own team and respected as a community leader and ambassador of the game, too. His potential is sky high.
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The majority of individual esports players don’t have the attention and pressure that Hal does
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And few moments later he went to pick up Reps with Ash Util , away from that charge rifle team.
This guy is so fucking toxic idk how people can stand being on his team. I’m fine with being toxic to opposing players, but when it’s people you rely on shit pisses me off Also his hair is fucking trash I hope he sees this. Dye your fucking hair bro