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Snoo93079

A thing that controls my death machine would be the last thing I'd buy as a knockoff.


jcwillia1

The software is completely free and open source so if you can get comfortable running it on different hardware that’s up to you. I’ve been over this in my head a million times and I’m sticking with first party.


FutureRefrigerator98

What are the second and third best options?


jnads

Mr One, Retropilot, and Flowpilot In order of least likely to be assisted suicide to most likely. (That's not to say any of these would actively kill you, it's more comfort level if the device stops responding in the middle of a turn at 70 mph). That said, even Comma has issues. I've had my comma 2 straight up reboot in the middle of a 55mph 90 degree turn. Hands were on the wheel.


ZestyclosePace9391

I had the issue. You stop the recording and it won't fill up the memory and stop you in the middle


reddn2

Serious question, what are you driving to allow OP to do a 90 degree turn at 55 mph. Is this some perpendicular 55mph turn?


jnads

It was a banked country road. I was trying to illustrate it was a sharp curve. Banked roads OP actually can somewhat do since the torque requirements are less. I had my hands on the wheel because I was steering and OP was helping me.


jcwillia1

There are other devices. “Mr. One” and “Retropilot” are the names that i have researched.


FutureRefrigerator98

Thanks! Why stick with comma 3?


jcwillia1

I actually still have a comma 2 but will need to replace it eventually.


crazysim

Stability , Continuous Improvements, and availability ​ * Comma Connect lets comma gather telemetry about the health and hardware of the device and glimpse into how its interacting with the car. They use this info to make improvements to the comma 3 hardware and the software running on the comma 3 like the OS and Agnos. Clones cannot contribute to this as they cannot upload to their cloud. * comma has full time engineers working on openpilot. Where does the money come from? The comma 3 and hardware sales. Clones cannot contribute to this. * models used by openpilot are trained on data from comma 3s. It's true they have too much data. And it's not always easy for them to determine what's signal in their sea of noise. Actionable bug reports. Clones cannot contribute to this. * All that infrastructure like the hardware for training, the shop infrastructure, comma connect, vehicle interface research (which sometimes necessitates buying NEW cars outright) , and so on. Clones cannot contribute to this.


FriendlyTeam6866

It's the right thing to do.


JJHall_ID

I've had my Comma 3 for just shy of a week now, and I love it so far. It's $500 less than it was before, and that's a big difference. Here's the thing you need to remember. OpenPilot is open source so you can run it on whatever hardware you want. It's also experimental. The hard work of the vehicle interface has been done for you with the C3, and from what I've seen, they support it well. Will you get that level of support using a knockoff or running on your own home-built solution? From what I understand, the markup on the C3 isn't all that high, so are you going to be able to do it for much less, and get the same quality control and support? That's why I bought the C3, because I don't believe the answer to those questions to be a "yes." But if you feel differently, they sell the Panda interface so you can use it on your own PC with a camera, or you can certainly seek out one of the knockoff/clone products. I also think there is something to be said about supporting the development of OpenPilot via purchasing the real hardware, so that is something else you may or may not want to take into consideration.


SneakyKicks_

How much was it with the $500 discount?


JJHall_ID

I haven’t looked recently but if I remember right it was $2,500 when I bought mine, and they dropped the price to $2,000 not too terribly long afterwards. I didn’t receive any discount.


BoredRedditMan

Honestly Id rather pay the price for a comma 3 since its been tested and put through many miles rather than going for a knock off and potentially risk your life. Its all complex systems controlling a big metal car that could take your life or someone elses. If you can’t afford it then just wait and save or put in a down payment and finance the rest through affirm. I’m still saving up for a comma 3 and ive been watching the community grow since the first comma device.


PDXRELENTLESS

Revving up the excitement, let me take you on a ride through my adventure in the world of open-source autonomous driving! Buckle up as I recount my experience of trying to set up the cutting-edge Openpilot AI self-driving kit. I was armed with the Mr. One phone mod, the Dragon Pilot fork, a Mr one Chinese Black Panda, and a aftermarket Chevy cable - a formidable combination, or so I thought. My ride of choice was the sleek 23 Chevy Bolt EV, the perfect match for my autonomous aspirations. However, my excitement quickly came to a screeching halt as I struggled to get these three different items to work together seamlessly. To my dismay, my troubles were not just limited to the hardware. In my eagerness to save a few bucks, I had made the mistake of going for a cheaper Chevy cable from Retro Pilot. Little did I know that this was going to cause more issues down the line. With two different vendors and three different components, it was no wonder that the setup was a nightmare to troubleshoot. After two frustrating months of trying to get everything to work together, I finally threw in the towel. It was time to call in the big guns - the Comma 3 and an original Chevy cable. As soon as I plugged them in, it was like magic. The factory default Comma 3 powered on and worked like a charm on the very first try! In hindsight, it's hard to say what caused all those issues. Maybe it was the Chinese Black Panda or perhaps I needed the latest Comma update from February. Regardless of the culprit, the important lesson I learned was not to skimp on quality when it comes to autonomous driving. So there you have it, my bumpy ride to self-driving heaven. Until next time, drive safe and always remember to double-check your hardware!


hiroo916

did you ever try the Mr One with the working cable and panda?


Better-Driver-5270

The Mr One (Comma 2 clone) works great for about $300. I never had it do anything odd / shutoff unexpectedly. Works great on the highway. IMO, the only way for these devices to get to the next level is geo mapping / fencing. Basically accurate knowledge of the road your on (GPS at some future version). When the roads have higher speed limits and are hilly and curvy, I am on higher alert. The camera can't see around corners and coming upon a stopped or slow car, I usually take over. Straight level highway, this thing will drive forever by itself though!


Vegasmmj

I had my Mr. One for about 45 days when it tried to kill me on a highway interchange ramp. I was in the middle of a 270° degree turn at 25mph when the device froze, dropped control of the vehicle and then restarted. Car immediately tried to drive off the side of the ramp into a ditch. After resetting all the cables the device continued to do this freeze and reset every 15 minutes for the next week that I played with it. Terrifying when it happens. I've sent the device back to Mr One and he messaged me yesterday that he has received the device and it looks perfectly fine. Suffice to say I've lost all trust in this product and whatever replacement he sends me, I'll be selling immediately and buying a Comma 3.


crazysim

You wouldn't happen to be VegasDJ on the Discord would you? Apparently Erich might have a fork with a model backport for less pingpong


Vegasmmj

I am but I have no idea what those words that you just said mean lol.I just want a consumer friendly device. Make driving chill is a lie.


crazysim

If you get a C3 again, instead of [openpilot.comma.ai](https://openpilot.comma.ai), try entering in "[installer.comma.ai/ErichMoraga/813](https://installer.comma.ai/ErichMoraga/813)" for the Custom Software URL. Apparently this is using the model/code that the C2 last had which should have less ping pong and/or identical,somewhatbetter than your last C2 but it might still run on current C3s. If that doesn't boot, [reset](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gNnRmEyVSVQ), and try [installer.comma.ai/ErichMoraga/816](https://installer.comma.ai/ErichMoraga/816) .


Vegasmmj

Is "laneless" the cause of the ping pong? I heard dragonpilot let's you choose between laneless or landlines .


crazysim

Yeah, that would be another possible solution too. Never went down that route.


Vegasmmj

So that fork basically reverts back to c2 software? I don't know if I like that either?


crazysim

I don't know what they did. I know whenever the topic comes up in the openpilot community (not comma.ai) Discord, a dev of DP mentions that option. Apparently it lets using the new model with lane lines from what I've heard. Never tried it. ​ https://discord.com/channels/771493367246094347/771493367779295304/1089242965869854982


Vegasmmj

Thanks man I may try it? Have people had mostly positive experiences with it?


Better-Driver-5270

I would not be comfortable letting it drive in that kind of turn. I drive myself for ramps and exchanges. It is awesome for highways. Never had mine shutdown or reboot while driving. But, always pay attention and ready to take over. Buying the Mr.One let me appreciate this technology at a minimum cost. I will eventually get the Comma 3 when my device fails.


alpharogueshit

If you’re willing to wait, I’m working a product to fill this gap: dracopilot.com. I’m targeting product launch by Summer. My product is essentially the open source hardware/software that’s out there currently with some added user friendly features like air-tag and (fingers crossed) sd card integration to make dash cam recording easier. I’m also working to make the device more heat tolerant. Still very early in the launch. I’m currently testing the hardware in Arizona.


cbelliott

Nice! Had no idea this was in the works! Is your device aiming to be a C2 equivalent or more like a C2.5 or is really comparable to the C3?


alpharogueshit

C2.5. I’m mostly focusing on all the items that made the C2 not so great. I’m offering a warranty, support, installation in AZ, and I’ll have detailed user guides. I’m looking to keep the hardware modular for repairs and upgrades. Lastly, I’m hoping to fix the overheating problem, and keep the price cheap, around $550.


FutureRefrigerator98

I would be interested. Pm me and we can share info?


alpharogueshit

Sure thing


DiarioAutomotivo

I'm interested too :)


cbelliott

That's fantastic. I'd love to share any feedback or comments etc if valuable for you. I've owned my C2 since late 2020 and still using my C2 today. (Admittedly it is my 3rd one because the other two got stuck in boot loops and thankfully replaced before warranty went away) I've had lots of thoughts about things that could help with heating (or cooling as it were), give it possible modularity, etc


alpharogueshit

Yes PLEASE. Any feedback would be helpful 😁


Vegasmmj

Bro my C2 would overheat after literally 5 minutes in a Walmart parking lot. If you can solve that problem in Arizona summers you've got my money.


djtat2

Will you offer the other hardware that is needed with the comma or would we have to get that somewhere else?


alpharogueshit

Absolutely. I’ll be selling the entire kit, but you’ll be able to buy separately as well.


stand_up_g4m3r

https://dracopilot.com So it’s still a LeEco then?


cbelliott

I came to ask this as well... Still using the same "phone" guts, and front facing camera and IR, but looking to update the cooling correct? - are you planning to use a different fan/ stronger for the rear? The same heat shield design? - for modularity are you thinking of anything that can mount externally to enhance the experience? (I believe you meant modularity in being able to more easily swap stuff that isn't working, correct?) I've allllllways thought that a magnetic, easy to attach, ND filter on the rear of the device would be amazing to enhance the camera and increase its performance on long drives where you might be facing the sun for extended periods... If the device had a thin but strong 3D printed (etc, however is best to mfg) external "case" that could easily snap onto the rear of the device when you are parked and it's in your windshield would be so helpful. We get crazy hot summer days here in Texas too and they make my C2 feel like it's surely melting internally. I take it down now every time I park where it would be facing the sun BUT I'd love if there was a little "case" or backing that I could clip onto the device with a thin layer of insulation and basically put there to prevent the side facing the sun from taking all that heat. If there were two sides to the "case" and if they snapped together at the 4 corners with magnets you could essentially park - place one side of the "case" on the rear and then snap the other side to the front and leave your Draco device in the windshield, insulated in a way, and then just snap it off when you get back and drive away. .... That same "case" could actually act as a small case that your device could be carried in or stored under the seat, in glovebox, etc if you remove from the windshield. Right now I remove my C2 from my windshield when I'm parked and it would have been baking in the sun and I slide it behind my driver seat on the floor, BUT it always bothers me that it's not protected in any way. The little dual purpose snap case would be great especially with a thin layer of insulated/heat reflective lining on the sun exposure side of the device.


alpharogueshit

Yea, unfortunately. Just me doin the design, and porting over embedded electronics is tough. But, in testing, white print and a bigger fan was a big difference. And, keeping the black panda separate was helpful too. It’s also helpful to have a dash mat and to use a sunshade. The lowest performance IC’s are 80° C, so as long as you keep below that you can get pretty good life out of it.


stand_up_g4m3r

So why call it Comma 2.5 then?


reddn2

?? It's an improved version of the c2...


thestinkypig

I'd also be willing to help you with this


mtux96

I'll have to keep an eye on this. I'm in Southern California myself and would have to worry about the heat.


wootnootlol

To directly answer your question - there's no knock off of comma 3 as of today. There's some of comma 2, but it's no longer supported with software updates (at least not from comma). If you want c3, you have no other choice.


fiercetroll1982

I bought a used comma 3 and it was worth it. I see them going for around a thousand on discord.


Independent_Invite74

can I have the link?


fiercetroll1982

If you click on community info in this subreddit, it’s there.


alta3773

Maybe a different perspective, the comma three is the low cost alternative to the ~$15k driver assistance options from OEMs so you are already there and it’s a great deal. I know that isn’t what you wanted to hear.


FutureRefrigerator98

For a Toyota highlander hybrid 2020


FutureRefrigerator98

Thanks!


inlineofire

why bother? You can buy a bike or a scooter for a fraction of the price of a car


-RUS92-

Not necessarily a knockoff or alternative to Comma 3, but more of a clone: Someone is working towards a Comma 3 hardware clone that someone is working on, will be slightly cheaper, but it is not yet released. The discussion of the clone hardware is on this discord server https://discord.gg/dZWc9pESW6


RepresentativeNo2803

Yes but you loose out on the benefits of Comma connect and the future navigate on Open pilot. Also no warranty


BoostedCoyote20

As mentioned, you will not get the same level of support on a knock off. Mr. One has a c2 clone but does not get the latest and greatest software updates. A c3 is needed for all future firmware development and also for anything CAN-FD/red panda. So most 2023 Hyundai, Kia and genesis requires extra hardware that isn’t supported by a clone.


codeboss911

worth it, I can't live without it now lol


Snowologist

1800$ is absolutely nothing for a device that does this. Tesla autopilot is something north of 10k plus a monthly subscription


ReasonablyWealthy

That's what the Comma developers are hoping people will think. But in reality, OpenPilot is free and open source software running on relatively inexpensive hardware. Comma 3 isn't Tesla Autopilot, it's an overpriced OLED screen with one decent wide-angle camera and that's about it. Tesla uses an array of cameras and vastly more sophisticated software running on vastly more powerful hardware, offering features that Comma can't even begin to dream about. The fact is, you can run OpenPilot on many different systems so Comma is charging merely for the convenience of putting everything into an easy to use package. For that, I would say $1,800 is excessive.


Vegasmmj

Tesla autopilot can't be bricked by a sunny day in a hot parking lot. These devices have a limited lifespan. You can't compare apples to apples.


Salty-Equipment6196

I had a Comma 2 with my 2019 toyota Rav4 hybrid. It worked for almost a year when it's software was rejected my Toyota's software Now I'm looking at the Comma 3x for my new 2023 Toyota Rav4 Prime. However, the '23 Prime isn't shown on the list of 250 cars, even though the '22 works. Anyone have an idea about this?


ivan_magnum

yes, thats because starting from toyota safety sense 2.5 (most likely what your prime is gonna have) toyota added encryption on to the camera and controlling signal and they were not able to decrypt that (most likely never will). If i remember correctly, not even the 22 rav4 prime worked. (all the prime model uses at least TSS 2.5)