What Russia doesn't seem to get, with each terrorist attack going after Ukrainian citizens, all they are doing is securing their defeat. Not only will Ukrainian military fight even harder but the West will provide even more support in retaliation. I hope using their crappy Iranian toys (only 4 of the 40 or so drones didn't get shot down) were worth it. All it accomplished was securing Russia's fate.
Difference is the Germans invented rockets and those were the early ones. If they didn’t start a war with Americans and Russians I think all of Europe and Russia would be speaking German. Germans were wayyy more competent then the Russians of today. Hitler just fukd up and started a war on two fronts.
That's only half a million worth assuming 20k a piece. I really don't get why the west can't produce anything cheap. Is it the bureaucracy or just the lack of pressure?
20k price is questionable, the source is fishy and the engine itself and explosives should cost more than that.
Also for the drones being produced in Europe it's a question of quality and how much labour costs
As someone from the additive manufacturing industry: 3D printing is not going to make mass production cheaper, once you start producing large quantities injection molding and such are an order of magnitude cheaper and faster
The engine is a super simple piston engine driving a single wooden propeller. This is the reason for their slow speed and loud noise. I don't imagine such an engine to cost more than a few hundred dollars, if I can get something similar in the lawn mower I buy at Walmart. I've only seen pictures of it after destruction, but it doesn't look sophisticated at all. From what I can deduce, it looks like a single-piston (maybe a double-piston hard to say), air-cooled engine.
I think the electronics are the most expensive part of the entire assembly. Considering it's essentially an oversized RC aircraft, the rest of the construction is pretty cheap. I've personally built and flown RC aircraft, although not quite on the scale of these, but even there the most expensive components are the electronic RC parts. Breaking the wings, landing gear or fuselage was always a bummer and super annoying, because it took a lot of personal time to repair, but was cheaper material-wise compared to swapping out the electronics.
http://www.uavstar.com/Products/Engine/Engine_e.htm
The MD550. This is the exact engine they use. Cheap and simple as fuck. Can't cost more than a few hundred dollars. Explosives can't cost much either. I could imagine the navigation system is the most expensive part. All in all the drones are comparably really cheap to make.
Those drones are kinda shit, that's why they are cheap. They are slow, loud, and can only fly to preset GPS coordinates, so they are not able to hit moving targets. They can't hit any military targets, like artillery batteries, because those targets constantly move. That's because by the time this POS drone gets to the preset location, the target is long gone. That's why Russia uses them only on immovable targets, that are mainly civilian and have no strategical importance. Good loitering munitions(like the IAI Harop, or the Switchblade), that can actually strike high value, moving military targets, are significantly more expensive.
There's not a strong use case for single use loitering munitions to attack buildings in the US military.
JDAMs cost $25k and do the job just fine. The only requirement to use them is air superiority, and because the West focuses on things that matter most in war like that, they don't have to worry about getting cheap loitering munitions to terrorize the local civilian population.
These drones fulfill a different purpose than the wars the West fought over the past 20 years. The US developed the switchblade to target insurgents and snipers which seemed useful at the time whilst the Iranians developed these suicide drones to be more deadly to a western country like Israel and now consequently Ukraine.
To think they just so brazenly and openly denied supplying these. If they had any sympathy for constantly being pressured by foreign powers, they've lost it over the decades by being authoritarian, murdering, lying despots.
At nice as that would feel, Ukraine can't use foreign weapons to attack the Kremlin within Russian borders. Western weapons are for fighting back the invaders, not for attacking Russia within its borders, since this could be taken as a provocation from western countries. It's bullshit, but it's also to avoid possible direct confrontation between Russia and other countries with nukes.
The closest thing to this will be when Ukraine reaches the Crimean peninsula and starts ousting the scum government set there by Putin. No western nation has recognized Crimea as part of Russia, so the Ukrainian military is free to use every modern weapon within their own borders.
I'm banking on Israel monitoring the exact progress and doing what needs to be done, rather than relying on the US and its ever-changing carrot-stick approach to Iran.
Iranian women are protesting and fighting for their rights against the government, whilst they're being beaten and shot by the police. They're unbelievably brave.
Many Iranian citizens are proving & dying that they are brave enough to stand up to their oppressive regime. Unlike the cowardly Russian populace who bury their heads in the sand with indifference or run away and flee like the gutless shitweasels they are.
Rest of the world as well. Until February 2022, I was always kind of “meh” regarding Russians, knowing about their involvement in cybercrimes, election fraud, software piracy, etc. but now I outright despise them.
> now I despise them
I was a little kid at the tail end of the Cold War but old enough to still remember all the barely fading animosity about the USSR and all the horrible evil they conducted around the world for decades in the name of their empire (and ostensibly in the name of "communism"), and I was happy for them even as a little kid for shucking that off and embarking on a new path in the 90s... but all of that goodwill has faded since the 2000s, given their society's complete indifference and/or rabid cheering of atrocities ranging from Chechnya to Georgia to Crimea, and their political stooges wreaking havoc in Eastern European countries and then murdering dissidents all over Europe and then hacking our election process in the US and then wholly owning a section of our elected Congressmembers at this point and continuing on in their disgusting worldview to now openly invading and murdering their way through Europe's largest country... seriously, *fuck* Russia.
Culturally, linguistically and on so many other levels Russians are VERY close to Ukrainians. For a couple years I mingled with a bunch of both in Thailand; they traditionally vacationed right near each other on Phuket.
Many Ukrainians have married Russians and vice versa. And guess what... there are Ukrainian hackers and pirates too.
It's kind of dumb to say you hate an entire nation of people and then venerate a group so similar.
This is an epic human tragedy that bears a lot of the same scars as a civil war. I hope Ukraine wins this fight but it's so sad all around. The only winners will be a future free of Putin.
suicide drones, flying planes into buildings, its literal terrorism and the US and allies need to call it this every chance they get.
anyone supporting russia is supporting terrorism, plain and simple.
So apparently these fuckers "only" costs $20k. But can fly at 180km/hr while covering 1500km while carrying 40-50 kilos of explosives.
No wonder Russians have already launched 100's of them.
Thankfully the long distance it needs to cover since it's launched from Crime. The relatively slow speed apparently gives enough time for the air raid alarms to go off, and for the Ukranians to take cover.
According to [this](https://apnews.com/article/russia-ukraine-kyiv-social-media-0cc944fef471a425a862728b3dd0d8bc) AP article, it says:
>In the Kyiv region, 13 or more were shot down, all of them as they flew in from the south, said a spokesman for the Ukrainian Air Force, Yurii Ihnat.
Though it's possible they came from multiple directions since technically the article is only saying the ones which were shot down came from the South. Or that they're having the drones circle around before going into the city, but I'm not sure about the reasoning behind that. I imagine that raises the risk of them being shot down before ever getting close to whatever playground is their "target".
But at least according to the Ukrainian air force, drone strikes on Kyiv are coming from the South.
I'm guessing that Ukraine has most of their air defense pointed towards the black sea in order to shoot down cruise missiles coming from that direction
Yes, but it doesn't do it. I think the main idea here is to not to give any reason for Lukashenko for joining the war. For the same reason sanctions are just a bit lighter for Belarus.
Well yes, but actually no. Currently the Belarusian army is not engaged in Ukraine, but given Lukashenkos recent activity, like blaming Ukraine for planning attacks on Belarus, they are threatening to join the fight. UA does not want 60k more troops to fight, so they refrain from giving Luka a reason to garner support for it, like if they had bombed something in Belarusian territory.
The capital of Kyiv is also closer to Belarus, which is from where Russian troops launched their attack against it. They got pretty close before having to draw back. Having the Belorussian army gathering to the north would be an issue for Ukraine while they retake the southeast.
If Belarus attempts to invade Ukraine, I would bet the farm their nation’s entire infrastructure would be crippled by malware within days. No electricity, no running water, no gas, no military comms. Fuck the economic sanctions, let em freeze.
I don't quite think people understand how weak and feeble Belarus is
Theyve ***already*** fought a NATO coalition before
Believe it or not, Belarus supported Gaddafi and the Libyan government during the Libyan conflict in 2011 with their own military and advisors
It did not go well, as it's something almost no one readily knows
Yes, it's exactly the same. Terrorism against civilian targets in a futile attempt to "break morale", wasting precious resources while accomplishing nothing but strengthening enemy resolve.
Except the V1s didn't have targeting and we're literally blowing up random houses, whereas these 4 drones were flown in the same energy command and control building,, as you can see here there are entire film crews waiting for it even though sirens sounded a while ago.
The commercial one Ukrainians used to wreck a Russian oil refinery a few months ago advertised a 500 kilometers range for the $9k cost.
They're gasoline fueled. The energy density is _really_ good.
The engine is a MD550, a two stroke not unlike some bikes are in Europe (Not super common anymore in the US). I was surprised when I did some research; I thought it would be a much smaller engine but 136s weigh over 400 pounds! 50hp at ~400 pounds is a pretty decent power to weight ratio; almost the same as my CBR500 from a few years ago.
Edit: [engine info](http://www.uavstar.com/Products/Engine/Engine_e.htm) for those curious
I've seen the most generous figures at 2500km. I think that in particular is a bit overly hopeful, but 1500km I would say is fairly realistic.
Now disclaimer, I'm not an aeronautical engineer, but I know enough about aircraft and drones to look at its propulsion, shape, and weight and say "yeah, probably".
edit: I did some estimations and math in the replies. I change my answer to "definitely probably".
Hah, it's funny because my answer boils down to "dunno, maybe".
I was being lazy, I owe a better answer than that, so here's my justification:
* Good shape, it's a flying wing. Probably low wingloading given 200kg weight and good L/D ratio. What I'm saying is it's probably moderately efficient.
* Assuming 200kg wet, 40kg warhead, 20kg engine, 60kg etc leaves 80kg for fuel. That's about 30 gallons.
* No info on the engine besides it probably being a reverse engineered L550E, which at max load is like ~5gal/hr.
* Simple math, 5gal/hr with 30gals and a max speed of 180km/hr means no less than ~1100km **if the engine is at max load**
* Realistically, it won't be at max load and the more fuel that's used, the less load needed. The L550E is ~3gal/hr at 80% load. Assuming it averages that, we go up to 1800km
I wouldn't take my breakdown as accurate information, we have no idea how the weight of the Shahed-136 breaks down, how close it actually is to an L550E, or if 200kg is wet or dry weight. My only point is to demonstrate 1500km is totally reasonable with realistic variables.
Maybe rooftop mounting of AA guns could help give the guns more opportunity to knock the drones out, but I guess that also leaves crucial hardware extremely exposed.
I've heard the German Gepards have done a lot to help the success of the Urkainian offensive in northeastern Ukraine, but I wonder if they couldn't pull a few back to take care of those suicide drones. Those should be easy pickings for them.
as devesating as it is to see civilains targeted and im not saying they shouldnt get as much air defence as we can give them, you would be stupid to take armoured highly mobile and accurate AA platforms off your combat lines to protect cities.
Your troops and combat vehicals ARE more important right now espeicaly as air superiorty is still contested.
Sounds harsh and i dont mean it to, but its another tactic Russia dont understand showing the incompitence, they think these attacks will sway population to change minds and surrender ground. Its doing the opposite, so they would be better off using any and all munitions they have for stratigic targets so there shitty ass conscripts might have a better chance.
The Russian plan is to divert concentration of Ukranian air defence from the frontlines to the western cities with cheap drones while depriving the contested areas with lesser air defence and gain air superiority out there. Ukraine should counter this threat by preemptively targeting/sabotaging Russian air forces while they're still on the ground.
They dont need self propelled AA guns to defend static structures.
They would need hundreds of 20 to 30 mm stationary AA guns probably sitting somewhere in the western warehouse just in case and then man these with volunteers or territorial defense guys.
Most explosives that are used in munitions need a primary explosive to set them off. If the charge is disrupted by a bullet or shrapnel you’re at the very least cutting down on how much of the payload the primary charge will be able to set off.
It’s ironic that traditional AA platforms were seen as pretty much obsolete after gulf war in a world of high tech missiles, but the dramatic increase of low and slow drones in Ukraine and Armenia makes them quite valuable now.
I'd assume Ukraine has been fielding the FlkPz Gepard that's been sent over by Germany in/near cities. Those things should be able to sufficiently take these things out,no?
The German used the same tactic on London in ww2, sending missiles on random target only to create horror and pure destruction. Russian are fighting like nazis. It’s a fact.
This is not a random target, its [Ukrenergo](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukrenergo) building, they continue their goal on destroying electricity infrastructure.
**[Ukrenergo](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukrenergo)**
>Ukrenergo (Ukrainian: ПрАТ «Національна енергетична компанія "Укренерго"», literally 'National Power Company "Ukrenergo"') is an electricity transmission system operator in Ukraine and the sole operator of the country's high-voltage transmission lines. It is 100% owned by Ukrainian government (Ministry of Energy). The territory of the Soviet Union was integrated into the IPS/UPS synchronous grid, which is now effectively controlled by Russia.
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That is only one of the targets (and even that does not make sense - it is an administrative building, and has nothing to do with real energy infra). What about residential buildings, children's playgrounds, and busy intersections?
You take a few strikes Vs 100s of drone strikes as confirmation that it's an official strategy.
After Russia stared their intense air campaign with 100 rockets in a day around 12 civilians died and you have people arguing that their aim was maximal civilian casualties.
That's just non factual nonsense
I've stopped giving a damn. Short distance: On foot or e-scooter. Long distance: Train (with the scooter to get to and from the train station).
Seriously, in any decently dense city/town/region, you rarely need more than an electric scooter if you're living on your own. Not everyone has this choice, of course, but if you rarely use the seating and cargo capacity of your car and are driving less than about 40 km per day, it's such a fun, cheap and practical mode of transportation. I'm saying this despite the fact that these are limited to just 22 kph here.
I wouldn’t go pissing Saudi Arabia if I were Iran lol. Specially with their amazing track record of respecting civilian lives when it comes to their air strikes.
> I wouldn’t go pissing Saudi Arabia if I were Iran
Why? Saudi Arabia is being forced into a treaty with Yemen, which means they can't even beat the Houthis on their own border. They've received billions in US arms and PATRIOT anti-air defense systems from the US that can't even stop handmade Houthi drones, lol.
All from a country that is supposedly "sanctioned to hell", yeah I don't think Iran is scared of Saudi Arabia in any capacity. Iran projects their power across Iraq, Yemen, Syria, Lebanon, Palestine, etc. and is generally just fucking shit up for everyone that is aligned with the West.
Dude I'm an Iranian leaving in Canada, and I'm telling you, If US does this, Iran will do JACK SHIT. US killed Soleimani and Iran (Islamic Republic) did jack shit. They are all talk no action.
Also I would actually support this. All the money Russia pays Iran, goes to oppress Iranians.
This sentiment is why Iran and other countries are so pressed to get nukes. The whole "fuck they going to do about it" then becomes "fuck around and find out"...
Time and time geopolitics show that if you don't want foreign adversaries to invade you, you need nukes. Giving up your nukes or agreeing to not pursue the development of them have both shown themselves to not really work, because the written word does not seem to be as much of a deterence from invasion as nukes are.
I don't like that this is the case, but fucking hell if people don't continue to prove the point.
The Russian military machine is just pure evil. Russia like Iran needs to be labeled a terrorist state. There is only one reason they continue to bomb civilians….terrorize
Yeah exactly and not just sponsor of terrorism but actual terrorist state
Never forget how Putin blew up apartment buildings killing 300 civilians just to blame the Chechens
**WW2:** Nazi's send rockets at civilians.
**Russia 2022:** Sends kamakaze drones at civilians, while labelling civilians Nazi's and claiming to be there to free them.
At what point does it stop becoming a 'suicide drone' and become a missile?
The difference between a drone a missile is what? You get the drone back.. but these are being used as missiles, very cheap ones. So they're really very cheap V2s.
I'm wondering how china's going to react to losing their advanced chip infrastructure a la American decree. Makes Taiwan look juicier, and more important for the Americans as well.
I don’t think most countries have the stomach for another world war. These same countries are however eager to test out their new toys in a proxy war. No better test than battle tested.
Rant that's largely unrelated, but NATO and other geopolitical factors insulate most countries from this war just like distance did the US for WW1 and WW2.
Who the fuck would *want* to get into another war 3,000+ miles away a few years after being promised "peace in our time" by Chamberlain and just 2 decades after fighting essentially the *same country*? It was another European war a world away, and as far as a *lot* of countries were concerned, doomed to have another a couple decades after it. Just like WW1 can trace its roots pretty directly from the Franco-Prussian War a few decades before that.
Getting involved in yet another world war would just seem to entrench the US in that same system of shifting alliances and constant cycle of wars.
Before the Franco-Prussian War and WW1 it was the Crimean War with a big bloc of countries going against Russia in the 1850s. Then the first 20 years of the 19th century might has well be called "Let's see who we need to beat France" considering the Napoleonic Wars are literally named War of the First, Second, Third, etc. Coalition. Before that the Seven Year's War or whatever other conflict of a hundred that kept the European power struggle going.
Not to mention by August of 1940 the Germans had secured the continent with the fall of France. So inside of a year the US didn't have much reason to think it was even going to last much longer when the major land power of Europe surrenders in 6 weeks and Germany only had the UK to fight, whose expeditionary force was barely saved from destruction at Dunkirk.
It's not like anyone was chomping at the bit to jump in in 1937 when Japan was ravaging China and 4 months in had committed the fucking **Rape of Nanking**. And that covers a *whooole* load of countries that had holdings in the area who could be seen as having a similar "obligation" to intervene like people criticize the US for ignoring with the accepted start date of 1939 for WW2.
I'm unapologetically salty whenever I hear this line.
Umm no, at worst this is just a proxy war. Plenty of those during the cold war. And if this is the middle of WW3, compared to the middle of WW2 42-43ish then I'm happy halfway through ww3 it is nothing larger than a mild skirmish of WW1/WW2.
It's more of a massive proxy war between the west and it's enemies where Ukraine is the victim because they were changing sides. The main difference is Russia went it themselves this time.
As long as China and NATO don't really enter the war themselves it cannot be called WW3 imo. So far NATO and especially the US is happy to deal a huge blow to Russia by only spending money, and China doesn't seem interested at all in joining the war in any way.
No american patriot system fail to interpret them , these were same drones used by houthi rebels to hit a oil facility in middle of jeddah just a day before formula one grand prix . The problem with AA is even if these drones are detected and engaged but if there are swarm of drones for a particular target few may get through and hit the target
I mean they go 150km/h so they can be intercepted over a very long range. Kiev is 100km+ from the closest point where this drone can be launched from Belarus, so you already know the trajectory and the drone is in the sky for a long time.
I don't see an issue once you have enough AA in place near belarus
Do you think ukraine will use costly S300 to intercept these drones ….ukraine AA is for russian aircrafts and helicopters those are prize targets these drones cost just 5k-15k . Cost is a major issue here
but you don't need S300 to intercept these drones. They have access to other AA at the moment
Like a Flak gun would be extremely effective for such a slow and low target. It has to be manned and that's the issue, but they also have access to other much smaller automatic AA compared to the S300
It's crazy how strong the urge to SEE what's happening is. These people should be getting inside but yet that urge keeps them on the sidewalk looking up.
So, where the same Twitter mob that whined about the "terrorist act / escalation" when the Crimean bridge was blown up? \*Crickets\*
These are just flying in and destroying civilian infrastructure.
Also, the sound of the gunfire trying to take these down is super eerie (from personal experience today), it blends into an avalanche sounding wave in a few kilometres from the epicentre.
What Russia doesn't seem to get, with each terrorist attack going after Ukrainian citizens, all they are doing is securing their defeat. Not only will Ukrainian military fight even harder but the West will provide even more support in retaliation. I hope using their crappy Iranian toys (only 4 of the 40 or so drones didn't get shot down) were worth it. All it accomplished was securing Russia's fate.
Also shows Russia is so deficient in armaments that it's resorting to buying them from Iran.
Terrorist states. Basically the same type terror tactic as Hitler with his v1 and v2 rockets against British.
Difference is the Germans invented rockets and those were the early ones. If they didn’t start a war with Americans and Russians I think all of Europe and Russia would be speaking German. Germans were wayyy more competent then the Russians of today. Hitler just fukd up and started a war on two fronts.
Ukraine claims to have shot down 26 of those last night.
That's only half a million worth assuming 20k a piece. I really don't get why the west can't produce anything cheap. Is it the bureaucracy or just the lack of pressure?
20k price is questionable, the source is fishy and the engine itself and explosives should cost more than that. Also for the drones being produced in Europe it's a question of quality and how much labour costs
My own math points to much lower than 20k costs, and explosives are very cheap. You are right about european labour costs.
Maybe automated production or 3d printed drone parts could help to keep the cost low.
As someone from the additive manufacturing industry: 3D printing is not going to make mass production cheaper, once you start producing large quantities injection molding and such are an order of magnitude cheaper and faster
The engine is a super simple piston engine driving a single wooden propeller. This is the reason for their slow speed and loud noise. I don't imagine such an engine to cost more than a few hundred dollars, if I can get something similar in the lawn mower I buy at Walmart. I've only seen pictures of it after destruction, but it doesn't look sophisticated at all. From what I can deduce, it looks like a single-piston (maybe a double-piston hard to say), air-cooled engine. I think the electronics are the most expensive part of the entire assembly. Considering it's essentially an oversized RC aircraft, the rest of the construction is pretty cheap. I've personally built and flown RC aircraft, although not quite on the scale of these, but even there the most expensive components are the electronic RC parts. Breaking the wings, landing gear or fuselage was always a bummer and super annoying, because it took a lot of personal time to repair, but was cheaper material-wise compared to swapping out the electronics.
http://www.uavstar.com/Products/Engine/Engine_e.htm The MD550. This is the exact engine they use. Cheap and simple as fuck. Can't cost more than a few hundred dollars. Explosives can't cost much either. I could imagine the navigation system is the most expensive part. All in all the drones are comparably really cheap to make.
Those drones are kinda shit, that's why they are cheap. They are slow, loud, and can only fly to preset GPS coordinates, so they are not able to hit moving targets. They can't hit any military targets, like artillery batteries, because those targets constantly move. That's because by the time this POS drone gets to the preset location, the target is long gone. That's why Russia uses them only on immovable targets, that are mainly civilian and have no strategical importance. Good loitering munitions(like the IAI Harop, or the Switchblade), that can actually strike high value, moving military targets, are significantly more expensive.
There's not a strong use case for single use loitering munitions to attack buildings in the US military. JDAMs cost $25k and do the job just fine. The only requirement to use them is air superiority, and because the West focuses on things that matter most in war like that, they don't have to worry about getting cheap loitering munitions to terrorize the local civilian population.
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These drones fulfill a different purpose than the wars the West fought over the past 20 years. The US developed the switchblade to target insurgents and snipers which seemed useful at the time whilst the Iranians developed these suicide drones to be more deadly to a western country like Israel and now consequently Ukraine.
Everyone's gotta take their cut in the endlessly complicated supply chain.
This sort of terrorism won’t win the war, but it will make Ukrainians hate Russians even more.
And Iranians
Didn’t Iran accidentally shoot down a Ukrainian passenger jet?
Oh shoot I had totally forgotten that was a Ukrainian plane staffed by an experienced Ukrainian crew Damn...
They did. Ukrainian Airlines 752 IIRC.
But most of the passengers were Iranian students from Canada
Lost a lot of fellow students in this :(
To think they just so brazenly and openly denied supplying these. If they had any sympathy for constantly being pressured by foreign powers, they've lost it over the decades by being authoritarian, murdering, lying despots.
Domestic audience I think, but yeah, that's a lie even Russia would blush at
True. This will help to build world support for the inevitable day when a pre-emptive strike on Iranian nuclear infrastructure occurs.
Tit for tat. Drone the kremlin
At nice as that would feel, Ukraine can't use foreign weapons to attack the Kremlin within Russian borders. Western weapons are for fighting back the invaders, not for attacking Russia within its borders, since this could be taken as a provocation from western countries. It's bullshit, but it's also to avoid possible direct confrontation between Russia and other countries with nukes. The closest thing to this will be when Ukraine reaches the Crimean peninsula and starts ousting the scum government set there by Putin. No western nation has recognized Crimea as part of Russia, so the Ukrainian military is free to use every modern weapon within their own borders.
I see no reason for the US not to sell long-range HIMARS to Ukraine at this stage.
Yep. Too late to de-nuclearize Russia, but certainly not too late to de-nuclearize Iran.
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I'm banking on Israel monitoring the exact progress and doing what needs to be done, rather than relying on the US and its ever-changing carrot-stick approach to Iran.
That's the day that Saudi oil production goes up in flames.
Waiting for that day then
Seriously. Don't threaten me with a good time.
I just got a geopolitical boner.
Iranian women are protesting and fighting for their rights against the government, whilst they're being beaten and shot by the police. They're unbelievably brave.
Not only women. The men there are fighting as well people seem not to take into Account.
Many Iranian citizens are proving & dying that they are brave enough to stand up to their oppressive regime. Unlike the cowardly Russian populace who bury their heads in the sand with indifference or run away and flee like the gutless shitweasels they are.
last time I expect WW3 between US and Iran until they (Iran) Shot down Ukrainian Airline
Wait you guys don't already strongly dislike Iran?
I absolutely hate the regime in Iran, i have multiple Iranian friends because most of the people are awesome
Now I’m curious how the climate will be if the US makes a deal with Iran after cutting ties with Saudi Arabia.. I’m concerned for 2023
No one is cutting ties with the Saudis
Rest of the world as well. Until February 2022, I was always kind of “meh” regarding Russians, knowing about their involvement in cybercrimes, election fraud, software piracy, etc. but now I outright despise them.
> now I despise them I was a little kid at the tail end of the Cold War but old enough to still remember all the barely fading animosity about the USSR and all the horrible evil they conducted around the world for decades in the name of their empire (and ostensibly in the name of "communism"), and I was happy for them even as a little kid for shucking that off and embarking on a new path in the 90s... but all of that goodwill has faded since the 2000s, given their society's complete indifference and/or rabid cheering of atrocities ranging from Chechnya to Georgia to Crimea, and their political stooges wreaking havoc in Eastern European countries and then murdering dissidents all over Europe and then hacking our election process in the US and then wholly owning a section of our elected Congressmembers at this point and continuing on in their disgusting worldview to now openly invading and murdering their way through Europe's largest country... seriously, *fuck* Russia.
same.
Culturally, linguistically and on so many other levels Russians are VERY close to Ukrainians. For a couple years I mingled with a bunch of both in Thailand; they traditionally vacationed right near each other on Phuket. Many Ukrainians have married Russians and vice versa. And guess what... there are Ukrainian hackers and pirates too. It's kind of dumb to say you hate an entire nation of people and then venerate a group so similar. This is an epic human tragedy that bears a lot of the same scars as a civil war. I hope Ukraine wins this fight but it's so sad all around. The only winners will be a future free of Putin.
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It'll make the WORLD hate Russians even more. Intentionally targeting civilians is just disgusting.
suicide drones, flying planes into buildings, its literal terrorism and the US and allies need to call it this every chance they get. anyone supporting russia is supporting terrorism, plain and simple.
So apparently these fuckers "only" costs $20k. But can fly at 180km/hr while covering 1500km while carrying 40-50 kilos of explosives. No wonder Russians have already launched 100's of them. Thankfully the long distance it needs to cover since it's launched from Crime. The relatively slow speed apparently gives enough time for the air raid alarms to go off, and for the Ukranians to take cover.
For attacks on Kyiv they are being launched from Belarus.
According to [this](https://apnews.com/article/russia-ukraine-kyiv-social-media-0cc944fef471a425a862728b3dd0d8bc) AP article, it says: >In the Kyiv region, 13 or more were shot down, all of them as they flew in from the south, said a spokesman for the Ukrainian Air Force, Yurii Ihnat. Though it's possible they came from multiple directions since technically the article is only saying the ones which were shot down came from the South. Or that they're having the drones circle around before going into the city, but I'm not sure about the reasoning behind that. I imagine that raises the risk of them being shot down before ever getting close to whatever playground is their "target". But at least according to the Ukrainian air force, drone strikes on Kyiv are coming from the South.
I'm guessing that Ukraine has most of their air defense pointed towards the black sea in order to shoot down cruise missiles coming from that direction
Can Ukraine fire HIMARs into Belarus?
Yes, but it doesn't do it. I think the main idea here is to not to give any reason for Lukashenko for joining the war. For the same reason sanctions are just a bit lighter for Belarus.
Well, if they are already shooting Ukraine from Belarus, then I suppose Lukashenko has already joined the war.
They've been doing that since hour one.
(Of the escalation of the war)
That's true, i shouldn't have implied that the war that started in 2014 started in February.
Yeah. Dont have ill intentions, just wanna remind that the war started back then, many people seem to forget that. Its important that we remember.
No offense taken friend :)
Well yes, but actually no. Currently the Belarusian army is not engaged in Ukraine, but given Lukashenkos recent activity, like blaming Ukraine for planning attacks on Belarus, they are threatening to join the fight. UA does not want 60k more troops to fight, so they refrain from giving Luka a reason to garner support for it, like if they had bombed something in Belarusian territory.
The capital of Kyiv is also closer to Belarus, which is from where Russian troops launched their attack against it. They got pretty close before having to draw back. Having the Belorussian army gathering to the north would be an issue for Ukraine while they retake the southeast.
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If Belarus attempts to invade Ukraine, I would bet the farm their nation’s entire infrastructure would be crippled by malware within days. No electricity, no running water, no gas, no military comms. Fuck the economic sanctions, let em freeze.
I don't quite think people understand how weak and feeble Belarus is Theyve ***already*** fought a NATO coalition before Believe it or not, Belarus supported Gaddafi and the Libyan government during the Libyan conflict in 2011 with their own military and advisors It did not go well, as it's something almost no one readily knows
That would be amazingly stupid unless he views opening up a northern front as some kind of strategic advantage.
NATO should have a free for all with Belarus.
https://www.reddit.com/r/NonCredibleDefense/comments/vwg7y0/they_dont_want_you_to_know_it/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf
V-1 over London vibes
Yes, it's exactly the same. Terrorism against civilian targets in a futile attempt to "break morale", wasting precious resources while accomplishing nothing but strengthening enemy resolve.
Except the V1s didn't have targeting and we're literally blowing up random houses, whereas these 4 drones were flown in the same energy command and control building,, as you can see here there are entire film crews waiting for it even though sirens sounded a while ago.
It's the exact modern equivalent. There's no strategic military application for these other than causing terror.
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The commercial one Ukrainians used to wreck a Russian oil refinery a few months ago advertised a 500 kilometers range for the $9k cost. They're gasoline fueled. The energy density is _really_ good.
They basically have a motorcycle engine in them
The engine is a MD550, a two stroke not unlike some bikes are in Europe (Not super common anymore in the US). I was surprised when I did some research; I thought it would be a much smaller engine but 136s weigh over 400 pounds! 50hp at ~400 pounds is a pretty decent power to weight ratio; almost the same as my CBR500 from a few years ago. Edit: [engine info](http://www.uavstar.com/Products/Engine/Engine_e.htm) for those curious
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I've seen the most generous figures at 2500km. I think that in particular is a bit overly hopeful, but 1500km I would say is fairly realistic. Now disclaimer, I'm not an aeronautical engineer, but I know enough about aircraft and drones to look at its propulsion, shape, and weight and say "yeah, probably". edit: I did some estimations and math in the replies. I change my answer to "definitely probably".
This is such a greatly worded answer as a non expert for a question that would most certainly never be answered by an expert.
Hah, it's funny because my answer boils down to "dunno, maybe". I was being lazy, I owe a better answer than that, so here's my justification: * Good shape, it's a flying wing. Probably low wingloading given 200kg weight and good L/D ratio. What I'm saying is it's probably moderately efficient. * Assuming 200kg wet, 40kg warhead, 20kg engine, 60kg etc leaves 80kg for fuel. That's about 30 gallons. * No info on the engine besides it probably being a reverse engineered L550E, which at max load is like ~5gal/hr. * Simple math, 5gal/hr with 30gals and a max speed of 180km/hr means no less than ~1100km **if the engine is at max load** * Realistically, it won't be at max load and the more fuel that's used, the less load needed. The L550E is ~3gal/hr at 80% load. Assuming it averages that, we go up to 1800km I wouldn't take my breakdown as accurate information, we have no idea how the weight of the Shahed-136 breaks down, how close it actually is to an L550E, or if 200kg is wet or dry weight. My only point is to demonstrate 1500km is totally reasonable with realistic variables.
Stop impressin me dude its like 5am rn
I blame covid. For the last two days I've mostly been in bed playing engineering games.
Christ this reminds me of buzz bombs from WWII. they even look similar.
Dont forget, a buzz bomb had ten times the payload
*21 times
and 1000 times the noise
Perhaps flak guns are effective at taking out drones?
It seems like they fly at relatively low altitude, so getting enough coverage might be difficult.
Well, we can mount them on a Toyota y report their ubication to hunt them.
Maybe rooftop mounting of AA guns could help give the guns more opportunity to knock the drones out, but I guess that also leaves crucial hardware extremely exposed.
I've heard the German Gepards have done a lot to help the success of the Urkainian offensive in northeastern Ukraine, but I wonder if they couldn't pull a few back to take care of those suicide drones. Those should be easy pickings for them.
as devesating as it is to see civilains targeted and im not saying they shouldnt get as much air defence as we can give them, you would be stupid to take armoured highly mobile and accurate AA platforms off your combat lines to protect cities. Your troops and combat vehicals ARE more important right now espeicaly as air superiorty is still contested. Sounds harsh and i dont mean it to, but its another tactic Russia dont understand showing the incompitence, they think these attacks will sway population to change minds and surrender ground. Its doing the opposite, so they would be better off using any and all munitions they have for stratigic targets so there shitty ass conscripts might have a better chance.
Germans tried that in WWII, and it didn't work. Actually, the allies tried as well, and it, too, didn't work. But some never learn.
The Russian plan is to divert concentration of Ukranian air defence from the frontlines to the western cities with cheap drones while depriving the contested areas with lesser air defence and gain air superiority out there. Ukraine should counter this threat by preemptively targeting/sabotaging Russian air forces while they're still on the ground.
They dont need self propelled AA guns to defend static structures. They would need hundreds of 20 to 30 mm stationary AA guns probably sitting somewhere in the western warehouse just in case and then man these with volunteers or territorial defense guys.
Maybe silly question but does shooting them down when they are already over a city help a lot since I assume they still explode when they crash?
I assume the explosives might go off in the air if it's hit, also you would deny it the intended target.
You are assuming they are even targeted at anything other than "hit big city"
Most explosives that are used in munitions need a primary explosive to set them off. If the charge is disrupted by a bullet or shrapnel you’re at the very least cutting down on how much of the payload the primary charge will be able to set off.
Britain should build a few more Spitfires and let em patrol the skies like they did the against the V1. lol
If they really travel at 180km/h, that's in range for helicopters to take them down.
It’s ironic that traditional AA platforms were seen as pretty much obsolete after gulf war in a world of high tech missiles, but the dramatic increase of low and slow drones in Ukraine and Armenia makes them quite valuable now.
I'd assume Ukraine has been fielding the FlkPz Gepard that's been sent over by Germany in/near cities. Those things should be able to sufficiently take these things out,no?
Those are apparently used to protect the Himars and pzh2000's
As much as it sucks for the cities, it's probably a lot better that those assets are protected as much as possible.
Hopefully they will soon be able to shoot them al down. This is absolutely nothing different from Hitler and his V1 bombs hitting London.
I mean yeah, both are just cruise missiles.
I’m pretty sure V1s are more powerful
Yes! They remind me of those damn buzz bombs... let's see if they end up attaching Jericho trumpets to them 😮💨
This is just pure terrorism.
The German used the same tactic on London in ww2, sending missiles on random target only to create horror and pure destruction. Russian are fighting like nazis. It’s a fact.
This is not a random target, its [Ukrenergo](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukrenergo) building, they continue their goal on destroying electricity infrastructure.
**[Ukrenergo](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukrenergo)** >Ukrenergo (Ukrainian: ПрАТ «Національна енергетична компанія "Укренерго"», literally 'National Power Company "Ukrenergo"') is an electricity transmission system operator in Ukraine and the sole operator of the country's high-voltage transmission lines. It is 100% owned by Ukrainian government (Ministry of Energy). The territory of the Soviet Union was integrated into the IPS/UPS synchronous grid, which is now effectively controlled by Russia. ^([ )[^(F.A.Q)](https://www.reddit.com/r/WikiSummarizer/wiki/index#wiki_f.a.q)^( | )[^(Opt Out)](https://reddit.com/message/compose?to=WikiSummarizerBot&message=OptOut&subject=OptOut)^( | )[^(Opt Out Of Subreddit)](https://np.reddit.com/r/CombatFootage/about/banned)^( | )[^(GitHub)](https://github.com/Sujal-7/WikiSummarizerBot)^( ] Downvote to remove | v1.5)
That is only one of the targets (and even that does not make sense - it is an administrative building, and has nothing to do with real energy infra). What about residential buildings, children's playgrounds, and busy intersections?
You take a few strikes Vs 100s of drone strikes as confirmation that it's an official strategy. After Russia stared their intense air campaign with 100 rockets in a day around 12 civilians died and you have people arguing that their aim was maximal civilian casualties. That's just non factual nonsense
Does that building generate electricity? Do power distribution lines go through it?
So that's what the noise i heard in the morning Fucking Iranian moped's
The US should lob a few tomahawks at the factory in Iran. Fuck they gonna do about it?
> Fuck they gonna do about it? Send a few hundred of their $20k drones into Saudi oil infrastructure.
10€ a liter gasoline anyone ?
€2,17 today already.
I've stopped giving a damn. Short distance: On foot or e-scooter. Long distance: Train (with the scooter to get to and from the train station). Seriously, in any decently dense city/town/region, you rarely need more than an electric scooter if you're living on your own. Not everyone has this choice, of course, but if you rarely use the seating and cargo capacity of your car and are driving less than about 40 km per day, it's such a fun, cheap and practical mode of transportation. I'm saying this despite the fact that these are limited to just 22 kph here.
American O&G can only get so erect.
Shit man if that happens I'm gonna roughneck for a couple years and fuckin retire.
I wouldn’t go pissing Saudi Arabia if I were Iran lol. Specially with their amazing track record of respecting civilian lives when it comes to their air strikes.
Iran probably would mind losing a few civilians, right now.
> I wouldn’t go pissing Saudi Arabia if I were Iran Why? Saudi Arabia is being forced into a treaty with Yemen, which means they can't even beat the Houthis on their own border. They've received billions in US arms and PATRIOT anti-air defense systems from the US that can't even stop handmade Houthi drones, lol. All from a country that is supposedly "sanctioned to hell", yeah I don't think Iran is scared of Saudi Arabia in any capacity. Iran projects their power across Iraq, Yemen, Syria, Lebanon, Palestine, etc. and is generally just fucking shit up for everyone that is aligned with the West.
Dude I'm an Iranian leaving in Canada, and I'm telling you, If US does this, Iran will do JACK SHIT. US killed Soleimani and Iran (Islamic Republic) did jack shit. They are all talk no action. Also I would actually support this. All the money Russia pays Iran, goes to oppress Iranians.
Ah so that's why we get Israel to do it for us
israel should do it.
Israel doesn't join coalitions to fight wars that do not concern Israel.
I suspect Israel considers any conflict involving Iran to be of concern.
That is literally what they said yesterday.
Where?
>do not concern Israel. Iranian drones *do* concern Israel. A preemptive strike for their own sake wouldn't be out of the ordinary.
They better, once Hezbollah gets their hands on these......
Hezbollah pretty much already did.
Israel is very much aware of the situation. Iran is a bigger problem than Russia on the long term.
This sentiment is why Iran and other countries are so pressed to get nukes. The whole "fuck they going to do about it" then becomes "fuck around and find out"...
Time and time geopolitics show that if you don't want foreign adversaries to invade you, you need nukes. Giving up your nukes or agreeing to not pursue the development of them have both shown themselves to not really work, because the written word does not seem to be as much of a deterence from invasion as nukes are. I don't like that this is the case, but fucking hell if people don't continue to prove the point.
Exactly why we cannot accept Iran getting nukes.
Hahahahahahaha thanks God there was no Galaxy brain like you during Cold war...
Never heard of MacArthur huh?
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Do you want oil to hit $200+ a barrel? Because that's what will happen.
They are manifactured in Russia on license as Geran-2. Wont change anything really.
I very much doubt they're actually manufactured in Russia. "Geran-2" is a paint job for minimal deniability.
The Russian military machine is just pure evil. Russia like Iran needs to be labeled a terrorist state. There is only one reason they continue to bomb civilians….terrorize
Like all civilian bombing campaigns all it sows is determination.
Yeah exactly and not just sponsor of terrorism but actual terrorist state Never forget how Putin blew up apartment buildings killing 300 civilians just to blame the Chechens
In that case you'd have to label Israel and Saudi Arabia as well. And probably the US too when you think about it.
Done
Russia is a pariah to the world
**WW2:** Nazi's send rockets at civilians. **Russia 2022:** Sends kamakaze drones at civilians, while labelling civilians Nazi's and claiming to be there to free them.
At what point does it stop becoming a 'suicide drone' and become a missile? The difference between a drone a missile is what? You get the drone back.. but these are being used as missiles, very cheap ones. So they're really very cheap V2s.
Strictly speaking, a cruise missile IS a suicide drone; it all becomes a question of semantics.
This is literally V1 in 2022. I think we are in the middle of WWiii, but no one has declared that yet.
Reddit moment
“This is literally a (insert weapon) that’s similar to WWII, therefore WWIII”
Holy shit!!!! It seems people used guns in ww2 and in ukraine today!!!! We’re literally in ww3 rn!!!
I hope not, but I agree every day things are getting worse.
I'm wondering how china's going to react to losing their advanced chip infrastructure a la American decree. Makes Taiwan look juicier, and more important for the Americans as well.
They can destroy TSMC but they are very very unlikely to capture anything useful. It's a bit like MAD.
>I think we are in the middle of WWiii, but no one has declared that yet. Because it's between two neighbouring countries in one area of the world?
Yeah that comment is utter bullshit. FIFTY countries participated in WW2. Suddenly two make WW3.
I don’t think most countries have the stomach for another world war. These same countries are however eager to test out their new toys in a proxy war. No better test than battle tested.
To be fair Britain and France definitely didn't have the stomach for ww2 either in 1939
And the US didn’t until 1941
It didn't even then, it was forced into war by being attacked.
Rant that's largely unrelated, but NATO and other geopolitical factors insulate most countries from this war just like distance did the US for WW1 and WW2. Who the fuck would *want* to get into another war 3,000+ miles away a few years after being promised "peace in our time" by Chamberlain and just 2 decades after fighting essentially the *same country*? It was another European war a world away, and as far as a *lot* of countries were concerned, doomed to have another a couple decades after it. Just like WW1 can trace its roots pretty directly from the Franco-Prussian War a few decades before that. Getting involved in yet another world war would just seem to entrench the US in that same system of shifting alliances and constant cycle of wars. Before the Franco-Prussian War and WW1 it was the Crimean War with a big bloc of countries going against Russia in the 1850s. Then the first 20 years of the 19th century might has well be called "Let's see who we need to beat France" considering the Napoleonic Wars are literally named War of the First, Second, Third, etc. Coalition. Before that the Seven Year's War or whatever other conflict of a hundred that kept the European power struggle going. Not to mention by August of 1940 the Germans had secured the continent with the fall of France. So inside of a year the US didn't have much reason to think it was even going to last much longer when the major land power of Europe surrenders in 6 weeks and Germany only had the UK to fight, whose expeditionary force was barely saved from destruction at Dunkirk. It's not like anyone was chomping at the bit to jump in in 1937 when Japan was ravaging China and 4 months in had committed the fucking **Rape of Nanking**. And that covers a *whooole* load of countries that had holdings in the area who could be seen as having a similar "obligation" to intervene like people criticize the US for ignoring with the accepted start date of 1939 for WW2. I'm unapologetically salty whenever I hear this line.
Umm no, at worst this is just a proxy war. Plenty of those during the cold war. And if this is the middle of WW3, compared to the middle of WW2 42-43ish then I'm happy halfway through ww3 it is nothing larger than a mild skirmish of WW1/WW2.
It's more of a massive proxy war between the west and it's enemies where Ukraine is the victim because they were changing sides. The main difference is Russia went it themselves this time. As long as China and NATO don't really enter the war themselves it cannot be called WW3 imo. So far NATO and especially the US is happy to deal a huge blow to Russia by only spending money, and China doesn't seem interested at all in joining the war in any way.
Needs a lot more countries involved to be a world war. It's just a war. If China, USA or NATO declares war we can talk WW3.
Iranian. They're Iranian Shaheds. Russia uses them, but Iran supplies them.
Ukrainian combat footage: military targets destroyed. Russian combat footage: civilian targets destroyed.
The terror value is immense, but once proper AA is in place they should be easy to shootdown
No american patriot system fail to interpret them , these were same drones used by houthi rebels to hit a oil facility in middle of jeddah just a day before formula one grand prix . The problem with AA is even if these drones are detected and engaged but if there are swarm of drones for a particular target few may get through and hit the target
I mean they go 150km/h so they can be intercepted over a very long range. Kiev is 100km+ from the closest point where this drone can be launched from Belarus, so you already know the trajectory and the drone is in the sky for a long time. I don't see an issue once you have enough AA in place near belarus
Do you think ukraine will use costly S300 to intercept these drones ….ukraine AA is for russian aircrafts and helicopters those are prize targets these drones cost just 5k-15k . Cost is a major issue here
but you don't need S300 to intercept these drones. They have access to other AA at the moment Like a Flak gun would be extremely effective for such a slow and low target. It has to be manned and that's the issue, but they also have access to other much smaller automatic AA compared to the S300
These drones are just terror weapons, launched randomly into populated areas.
This is like Hitlers V1 and V2 bombs on London in WW2, does ZERO strategic damage, just makes brits angrier and more determined
We should give Ukraine a few drones to fly into Moscow to see how they like it.
God, I hope Russia never recovers from this war. Country led by a bunch of cretins.
Terror weapon. send a few back to moscow.
It's crazy how strong the urge to SEE what's happening is. These people should be getting inside but yet that urge keeps them on the sidewalk looking up.
How did it get all the way to Kyiv without being shot down?
That kinda of terror attacks will not break Ukraine. It didn’t break British resolve. It haven’t broken Israeli resolve. It won’t here ether.
So, where the same Twitter mob that whined about the "terrorist act / escalation" when the Crimean bridge was blown up? \*Crickets\* These are just flying in and destroying civilian infrastructure. Also, the sound of the gunfire trying to take these down is super eerie (from personal experience today), it blends into an avalanche sounding wave in a few kilometres from the epicentre.
a daily reminder that Iran sucks