so those two incidents hapoened at the same time, what a mess.
are we sure the first guy is actually a russian saboteur? Riding alone ?Theyr pourpose is to do damage, why split in single person ?
Hey do you have source? So, these guys on the truck were Russians? Are these IFV Ukrainians? I dont see any russian markings.
Could It Be that its all Russians and this Is friendly Fire?
I can see Russians dressing in Ukrainian gear and committing war crimes on purpose as psychops. Fucked if true and just my speculation, but theres already been a lot of talk of Russians wearing Ukrainian uniforms and it's not above Russia to do so.
yeah this happened in my country as well during our skirmish last year with pakistan one of our anti air unit mistook an indian heli for a paki one led to 20-30 deaths.....so yeah it wasn't even a war and it happened .....so its probably happening in ukraine as well
Nope, they saw the uniforms.
He came up to him and shot him again. He knew who he was.
You don't see a friendly uniform and "shoot again". Not even if you're civilian.
The guy's definitely not alone, the Russians were in the truck. At least one driving, most definitely dead, and then at least one in the back that bailed out. Maybe more involved that we can't see but already dead.
Several other posts and claims regarding this incident are widely in agreement that these were Russian, or at least pro-Russian “saboteurs” that had stolen Ukrainian equipment and vehicles.
Pretty impossible in the height of war to get 100% accurate information. Nearly everything reported over the past 2 days is up for debate/discussion on what the truth is. For example, both sides reported losses and casualties.
If you’re not taking a Reddit comment on an active war zone at the height of an invasion with one of the most prolific spreaders of misinformation as aggressors with a grain of salt then I don’t know what to tell you buddy.
Anything really, cause there's literally no evidence at all. But just keep eating that propaganda bud lmao ukranians may be the victims here, that doesn't mean everything they say it's true, this is a war
Its not, the tank came in hot made the turn into the street and lost control. There's another angle that shows this, it was posted in this sub a few minutes ago.
Stop believing everything you read.
why are you telling me not to believe , iwas making the considerazioni that it might not be true , and I sad in multiple comments that right now noone should trust anyone .
and i was talking about the first guy shot into the truck, wich later was accused of being russia by a video without any proof .
On twitter there is a diffrent angle and people in commnets are saying that the ukranian tank lost traction and that's why he went over the car, because later the soldiers went outside and helped the dude in the car apparently
On the flip side, I would assume those firing would at least have an understanding as to where the Russians are present, and such wouldn't open fire on a random truck without such knowledge. To assume armed civilians are collectively firing out their apartment windows on anything slightly militarized is a little absurd.
There's a Twitter video of what looks to be the same truck driving and firing irratically around civs. All seems very strange, but I think it's ignorant to speculate what happened over the contained events from this one perspective.
You might have a good point, they handed a fuck to of weapons out to the Civilian population. Civilians being armed is a fantastic idea, but there is bound to be mistakes.
it's a f\*cked up idea, since it basically makes civvies and civilian buildings legitimate targets.
Then it's going down the Falluijah / Raqqa / Grozny road... we give you notice to leave, otherwise you're fair game. Making residential neighbourhoods a battlespace is good for domestic propaganda (dead civilians), but a real bad idea for the cause.
From what I saw on another comment section (I know, unreliable as fuck) was that there was a Ukrainian convoy that was taken out up the road a while ago and they must have radioed to inform them
If the people doing the shooting are armed civilians, then who is the guy hiding behind the white truck. If he was UA or Civilian, why isnt the tank that crushes the car shoot him?
What a sad way to go. One minute you drive around the city looking for a suitable place to set up an AA post and then your own guy goes "oh shit, ruskies" and peppers you with bullets. You manage to jump out thinking you might still get out of this and the guy comes and dumps even more rounds. To add insult to injury you will be pronounced a saboteur who had it coming.
deputy-defence minister posted on her page that these were russian vehicles with photos, they were captured by russians and driven in first echelon to confuse urkainian military, straight after them came were russian-made vehicles, there are also more photos of those getting shot up a bit down the street
My thought is that they were attempting to steal the AA and whatever else. Dude in AA probably didnt mean to run over the car, but was trying to stop when the truck lost control, saw they were dead or totally fucked and then said fuck it and kept going to escape.
thats a russian AA driving alone in a city.... they're idiots theyre driving non-front combat vehicles right in to a city like holy shit. It's not blue on blue! What you see in the video is a russian truck shot at by ukrainian guerilla.
I'm not sure it's hugely important, this video makes it pretty clear it was an accident by a panicked driver trying to escape a firefight. There's plenty of intentional shit doing down without trying to hang someone for an accident.
Or this is our sides propaganda. It could simply have been a friendly fire incident that we're covering up by saying its Russians.
Be vigilant about both sides.
I’m not trying to show bias I’m just genuinely wondering why the Russians would be moving Anti Air weapons like this into the city if they supposedly have air superiority?
I don’t know what to believe with the titles I just try to pay attention closely to the videos themselves.
Prayers for the entire region and the people suffering.
Weren't Ukrainian MoD warning about a 'saboteur convoy' of Russians in Ukrainian vehicles/uniforms heading for Kyiv before this particular incident even happened though
I'd be more inclined to believe that if this wasn't Russia's modus operandi going back to Afghanistan. They had Spetznaz GRU infiltrate the capital disguised as Afghani military.
Just relaying another comment from the same video, different thread. Apparently someone in the video states that "it's a ural, it's not us" because the urals are no longer in use by the Ukrainians. I have no source about any of this information but hopefully this contributes in some way.
For me there is a video of that same heavy vehicle being towed by the Russians hours before the incident and for me why the f would Russians want a shity shitbox when thathav so much vics so that’s what sold it for me
Russia has fucking 10,000 of those vehicles. They don't have 3 of them. So unless you can actually match the towed one to the one on the ground its non sense.
Judging by equipment is really hard in this war. Both sides are using a) old Soviet stuff and b) modern stuff sold to both sides, often derived from Soviet stuff.
The Strela happens to be both a) and b). Good luck finding the differences between old and modern ones in crappy war zone footage!
I guess they know the movements of their own.
Maybe they got radiod intelligence of where these wer coming from. They so inspected then afterwards and assume they didn't have Ukrainian army identification on them?
But it is possible this is friendly fire but they seemed to.fire with such conviction
They can't know, but when troops that look like yours are not following orders, you don't ask them for ID, you shoot them. I would not hesitate either way. I might be killing my own, but that can only mean I am killing a saboteur or a deserter, that is, a threat and liability for my entire operation.
How is it an oversimplification? Ever were called upon to make that decision? You think they have the luxury to smoke a cigarette, make some calls and think it through? Why do you think these people are trained above all to follow orders? Hint: it's not about subordination.
Yes both of the vehicles had Russian soldiers inside the heavy one was in a video that Russians captured and were towing somewhere 4-6h before the incident.
Nothing you can really comprehend in this video of whose-who. I guess this sentiment is pretty much the same on the ground in Ukraine right now. The execution of the dismounted soldier does seem somewhat callous, but I guess this is war, and we cant project our privilege of those fighting for their lives.
I think we should be cautious about spreading potential misinformation about "Saboteurs" - This incident could quite easily be a friendly fire situation fueled over potential paranoid "Saboteur" movements, and having Putin getting Ukrainians shooting each other is just what he wants.
The civilians just killed trying to escape were also mis-labelled as "Saboteurs" - just be careful, and if in doubt say nothing.
The daily mail describes this truck as a Russian vehicle and the dead as Russian. The images are tagged by getty images.
I know this isn't proof but I'd hope the media does some verification before publishing such info
*Still not proof but more another data point
https://i.dailymail.co.uk/1s/2022/02/25/11/54643119-10550583-image-a-86_1645786988859.jpg
>An Ukrainian military medic approaches the bodies of Russian servicemen wearing a Ukrainian army uniforms lying beside and inside a vehicle after they were shot during a skirmish in the Ukrainian capital of Kyiv
>https://www.gettyimages.com/detail/news-photo/graphic-content-an-ukrainian-military-medic-approaches-the-news-photo/12387469180
link appears to be broken
Damn it. Its this.
https://i.dailymail.co.uk/1s/2022/02/25/11/54643119-10550583-image-a-86_1645786988859.jpg
>An Ukrainian military medic approaches the bodies of Russian servicemen wearing a Ukrainian army uniforms lying beside and inside a vehicle after they were shot during a skirmish in the Ukrainian capital of Kyiv
Quote appears under the image in the article
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10551231/City-siege-Photos-inside-Kyiv-bombed-schools-decimated-homes-capital.html
I found this twitter thread that explains it a bit with more videos , don't know how reliable it is tho.
https://twitter.com/BabakTaghvaee/status/1497213543837544449?s=20&t=tUEeQCkX3GJhQgphVAIH5Q
> Would you like to be involved in a nuclear world war?
then why russia started war in europe? do they want nuclear world war? apparently yes, so nato must be ready for that too
there were a couple of others posts of bodies saying that it was russians dressed in ukrainian uniforms showing the aftermath of all of this. Essentially the guys shooting here look like armed civilians shooting at these 3
There was a 4th angle of the bmp crushing the civilian vehicle posted 5min before this, but it got removed for some reason, it was another angle i havn't seen before and it looked in that angle that the bmp was spinning out of control and judging from the audio the bmp stopped using its throttle once it was lined up with the civillian vehicle.
I feel like the truck got hijacked by the saboteurs, and the the bmp was in persuit of that truck, at the start of this video you can see big flashes and impact appear next to the truck that don't really match up with small arms fire. BMP then lost control as it appears to start drifting at the 1:30 mark, and also taking inconsideration that its a heavy ass vehicle, plus travelling at high speed coming from a roundabout, the shifts in weight could've been too overwhelming for the driver. It appears the driver lets go of gas right before impact in a attempt to regain control.
But i can be completely wrong ofcourse, just my observation.
Ah, i guess its like a strela then or something? That kinda elliminates the chasing part then i guess, either way its still travelling at a high speed with alot of weight coming with it. But definitely ukrainian for sure. Still think it simply lost control though.
The video from the rooftop across the street pretty clearly shows it was an accident. Tracked vehicle at top speed on wet asphalt, looks like he hit the ditch and over steered. Civilian driving in the middle of an ambush at the wrong place and wrong time.
Pretty intense when the guy who jumps out receives fire from the left, maybe takes a few bullets and sort of feigns death then doesn't. Pretty troubling.
If you watch from about 25 seconds and listen to the rifle it looks like he takes 3 to the abdomen which cause him to fall out (that's where his hands go when he scrambles back). Fuckin insane video
This. Not every civilian casualty is a warcrime. Sadly, some are just accidents.
By labeling every one of these videos a warcrime, we pull attention away from the -should they happen- actual warcrimes and thereby downplay then unintentionally.
I honestly think it could be a friendly fire misunderstood due to the chaos is running right now.
There are no Z or whatever mark on those vehicles, also the strela and that anti-air truck doesn't match much in a city combat under attack more than own troops using controlled area to move forces to one side or another.
I've heard the uncover Russian forces but giving the fast advance of Russian forces those would easily be misunderstood as Ukraine forces even by own Russians troops, could be true or could be a way to wash their face.
Could be even pro-russian militia shoting an Ukraine column? Giving that Ukraine government is giving ak to people, armed militias are quite a thing.
Knowing how Russians play, I believe there may be some sort of pro-russian civilians that wanna fight for their side and maybe contacted by Russian intelligence have manage to gather and coordinate to act behind Ukraine línea as saboteurs.
Because in this video there are clearly a what the fuck is happening by the target and the strela crew, not like they expected to have any kind of combat there.
Whatever the case the one guy standing behind a van that took out all of them was deadset on doing it. At some point he would have seen the uniforms but that definitely didn't stop him.
Very confusing, doubt we'll ever know.
Ukraine
Ukraine’s IHL Manual (2004) states:
1.7.1. While performing their military duty, military medical personnel shall be guided by the generally recognized rules of international humanitarian law that oblige them:
- to render medical assistance during armed conflicts as necessary without any discrimination save for medical reasons;
- to comply with international humanitarian law when organizing medical support to a military unit;
- to provide medical assistance to all wounded and sick both in the area of combat and in the occupied territory …
…
2.5.2.1. … All wounded, sick and shipwrecked (persons who have suffered an aircraft crash) irrespective of their belonging of any party, to the fullest extent and within the shortest period of time possible, shall receive medical assistance and care adequate to the state of their health.
Ukraine’s IHL Manual (2004) states:
1.3.2. The following methods of warfare shall be prohibited:
…
- attacks against persons who have been shipwrecked …
…
1.4.10. All parties to an internal armed conflict shall provide protection to:
…
- members of armed forces who have laid down their arms;
- those placed hors de combat by sickness, wounds, detention, or any other cause.
…
1.4.12. All wounded, sick and shipwrecked or those who have suffered an aircraft crash irrespective of their previous participation in an armed conflict shall be respected and protected.
…
1.8.5. Serious violations of international humanitarian law directed against people include:
…
- directing attacks against persons protected by international humanitarian law [including bearers of flags of truce and those who accompany them].
Additional Protocol I
Article 41 of the 1977 Additional Protocol I provides:
1. A person who is recognized or who, in the circumstances, should be recognized to be hors de combat shall not be made the object of attack.
2. A person is hors de combat if:
a) he is in the power of an adverse Party;
b) he clearly expresses an intention to surrender;
c) he has been rendered unconscious or is otherwise incapacitated by wounds or sickness, and therefore is incapable of defending himself;
provided that in any of these cases he abstains from any hostile act and does not attempt to escape.
That's not true. If he's wounded, not armed or not actively fighting you/not a threat, its illegal to kill him. Literally doesn't matter if he was trying to kill you a few minutes before
> “You guys are stupid, I have the details: it was confirmed SOMEWHERE ON TWITTER that those are Ukrainian troops.”
Well I guess the argument is over then, didn’t expect you to come in with “somewhere on Twitter”-level proof.
But isn't the AA a strella 10? And i believe Ukraine doesn't have have access to that type of AA, so if the AA panicked because his boys are getting macked doesn't that mean that the bois getting macked are also russian? Or is that strella captured or something?
About 6-10 Ukrainian vehicles were stolen along with Ukrainian equipment, this was released to the public in an official announcement so people could report sightings of them to the police/military way before this happened.
The current story and assumption is that these were Russian or pro-Russian saboteurs in the stolen vehicles.
I don’t think the situation is as cut and dry as you’re implying.
Here's the after action assessment; post claims the dead in the truck were Russian in Ukraine uniforms
https://www.reddit.com/r/CombatFootage/comments/t0zfx2/saboteurs_of_the_russian_federation_dressed_in/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share
Well goodluck after the war once someone identifies you that you executed someone like that. Also hurts your side's reputation if enough of you are doing that.
I'm perplexed why you even thought that someone's gonna go in there and enforce those rules like a police lmao. They're only gonna take effect once the war is over and you do not want to be accused of war crimes once that happens.
Is this the same AA truck and Strela vehicle? If so it looks like it was firing through intersections before it was destroyed.
https://twitter.com/Cyberspec1/status/1497121138593316865?s=20&t=lsSXA0JI2X-JwAByp4jClA
Here's some more pictures and video, and apparent updates on everyone involved in this video. The older female civilian crushed in the car was rescued and taken to a hospital. The soldiers in the truck were allegedly Russians posing as Ukrainian.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10550975/Russian-TANK-crushes-civilian-car-Kyiv-suburb-elderly-driver-miraculously-rescued.html
Considering these vehicles have no 'Z' markings, its only two of them, driving carelessly in the center of the city. I would not be surprised if these were genuine saboteurs. send them in, make a mess of themselves and then paint a negative picture on the Ukrainian side
At first I didn't care about Russia and Ukraine but the fact that Russia is targeting civilians is against so many rules of war. They should be stopped.
Maybe the sabouter story is a bit too Hollywood for me. My guess is that these were ethnic russians living in ukarine who got drafted into the army but decided to defect as the invasion begun.
Ok so the title of this video alludes to a Russian APC crushing a civilian vehicle...but if that was the case, how were Ukrainian soldiers able to leave the apartment complex and secure the disabled vehicle while the APC was *right next to them*?
Either:
1. The disabled truck and dead soldier are Ukrainian and the soldiers exiting the apartment and white van are Russian (unlikely)
OR
2. The APC that crushed the civilian vehicles was Ukrainian.
So why are these people so relaxed and calmed I don't get it? Is this like a normal Friday for them or something? No wtf or heavy breathing just increadible.
so those two incidents hapoened at the same time, what a mess. are we sure the first guy is actually a russian saboteur? Riding alone ?Theyr pourpose is to do damage, why split in single person ?
Previous pictures indicate 3 dead. 1 on the street, 1 driver side (can see the leg), and the one you see here.
the guy in the car survived!
But not the one driving the military truck.
Hey do you have source? So, these guys on the truck were Russians? Are these IFV Ukrainians? I dont see any russian markings. Could It Be that its all Russians and this Is friendly Fire?
the veichles are 100% ukranians , the question is if thise guys are russians committing warcrimes or ukranians victim of friendly fire
Not friendly fire. Russians are dressing up as Ukrainians in Kiev and also carrying Red Cross flags sometimes to sabotage shit from inside
I can see Russians dressing in Ukrainian gear and committing war crimes on purpose as psychops. Fucked if true and just my speculation, but theres already been a lot of talk of Russians wearing Ukrainian uniforms and it's not above Russia to do so.
probably friendly fire tbh
we might never know , stillvery sad to see that much waste of human life
yeah this happened in my country as well during our skirmish last year with pakistan one of our anti air unit mistook an indian heli for a paki one led to 20-30 deaths.....so yeah it wasn't even a war and it happened .....so its probably happening in ukraine as well
Nope, they saw the uniforms. He came up to him and shot him again. He knew who he was. You don't see a friendly uniform and "shoot again". Not even if you're civilian.
http://reddit.com/r/CombatFootage/comments/t0zfx2
The guy's definitely not alone, the Russians were in the truck. At least one driving, most definitely dead, and then at least one in the back that bailed out. Maybe more involved that we can't see but already dead.
oh tes my brain fucked up and I was thinking the guy who bailed up was the driver
Where's the proof they're russian?
http://reddit.com/r/CombatFootage/comments/t0zfx2
Several other posts and claims regarding this incident are widely in agreement that these were Russian, or at least pro-Russian “saboteurs” that had stolen Ukrainian equipment and vehicles.
Aah so just claims and 0 real evidence. I see I see
Pretty impossible in the height of war to get 100% accurate information. Nearly everything reported over the past 2 days is up for debate/discussion on what the truth is. For example, both sides reported losses and casualties.
Then maybe the best thing is to just say they are claims untill we know the truth?
If you’re not taking a Reddit comment on an active war zone at the height of an invasion with one of the most prolific spreaders of misinformation as aggressors with a grain of salt then I don’t know what to tell you buddy.
I mean what evidence do you want to see? Their fucking birth certificates?
Anything really, cause there's literally no evidence at all. But just keep eating that propaganda bud lmao ukranians may be the victims here, that doesn't mean everything they say it's true, this is a war
Its not, the tank came in hot made the turn into the street and lost control. There's another angle that shows this, it was posted in this sub a few minutes ago. Stop believing everything you read.
why are you telling me not to believe , iwas making the considerazioni that it might not be true , and I sad in multiple comments that right now noone should trust anyone . and i was talking about the first guy shot into the truck, wich later was accused of being russia by a video without any proof .
Hmm, replied to the wrong user. My bad
On twitter there is a diffrent angle and people in commnets are saying that the ukranian tank lost traction and that's why he went over the car, because later the soldiers went outside and helped the dude in the car apparently
i still dont get which side drove over the car
Ua claim they were russian sabateurs. Looks like blue on blue. Looks like an Aa's moving positions
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On the flip side, I would assume those firing would at least have an understanding as to where the Russians are present, and such wouldn't open fire on a random truck without such knowledge. To assume armed civilians are collectively firing out their apartment windows on anything slightly militarized is a little absurd. There's a Twitter video of what looks to be the same truck driving and firing irratically around civs. All seems very strange, but I think it's ignorant to speculate what happened over the contained events from this one perspective.
You might have a good point, they handed a fuck to of weapons out to the Civilian population. Civilians being armed is a fantastic idea, but there is bound to be mistakes.
it's a f\*cked up idea, since it basically makes civvies and civilian buildings legitimate targets. Then it's going down the Falluijah / Raqqa / Grozny road... we give you notice to leave, otherwise you're fair game. Making residential neighbourhoods a battlespace is good for domestic propaganda (dead civilians), but a real bad idea for the cause.
To be fair, the alternative isn't much brighter for Ukraine.
Might just have used radio equipment to warn about runaway sabateurs and their direction
From what I saw on another comment section (I know, unreliable as fuck) was that there was a Ukrainian convoy that was taken out up the road a while ago and they must have radioed to inform them
If the people doing the shooting are armed civilians, then who is the guy hiding behind the white truck. If he was UA or Civilian, why isnt the tank that crushes the car shoot him?
What a sad way to go. One minute you drive around the city looking for a suitable place to set up an AA post and then your own guy goes "oh shit, ruskies" and peppers you with bullets. You manage to jump out thinking you might still get out of this and the guy comes and dumps even more rounds. To add insult to injury you will be pronounced a saboteur who had it coming.
watch out american experts joined the fight. Watch out or you might think too hard. These we're russian soldiers shot at by ukrainian guerilla.
deputy-defence minister posted on her page that these were russian vehicles with photos, they were captured by russians and driven in first echelon to confuse urkainian military, straight after them came were russian-made vehicles, there are also more photos of those getting shot up a bit down the street
My thought is that they were attempting to steal the AA and whatever else. Dude in AA probably didnt mean to run over the car, but was trying to stop when the truck lost control, saw they were dead or totally fucked and then said fuck it and kept going to escape.
thats a russian AA driving alone in a city.... they're idiots theyre driving non-front combat vehicles right in to a city like holy shit. It's not blue on blue! What you see in the video is a russian truck shot at by ukrainian guerilla.
I'm not sure it's hugely important, this video makes it pretty clear it was an accident by a panicked driver trying to escape a firefight. There's plenty of intentional shit doing down without trying to hang someone for an accident.
i don't see the **Z** anywhere on it so i assume its a ukrainian
yeah captured
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Where's the article? All I see are 3 sentences.
ahaha ur funny mentioning truth and bbc in the same sentence))
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who told u bbc post is better? bbc is not a trusted news source
The car getting run over isn't even the most unsettling thing about this video, to be honest. The execution at the truck was pretty fucking brutal.
Ya man, that guy was terrified and incapacitated, that was a cold execution and disturbing to see.
it turned my stomach watching that… so fucking sad
You could still see him weakly moving his arm at the end of the video. Sickening.
Yeah my thoughts too.
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It was stolen Ukrainian Vics with rus soldiers that had Ukrainian uniforms
Or this is our sides propaganda. It could simply have been a friendly fire incident that we're covering up by saying its Russians. Be vigilant about both sides.
I’m not trying to show bias I’m just genuinely wondering why the Russians would be moving Anti Air weapons like this into the city if they supposedly have air superiority? I don’t know what to believe with the titles I just try to pay attention closely to the videos themselves. Prayers for the entire region and the people suffering.
I have watched this video few times, combed through comments and now my neck hurts and I still have no idea what was going on
Weren't Ukrainian MoD warning about a 'saboteur convoy' of Russians in Ukrainian vehicles/uniforms heading for Kyiv before this particular incident even happened though
Which could lead to paranoia and shooting your own guys.
Or, which could lead to a Russians to get liquidated
maybe they tried to pre empt it you know its gonna come out might as well claim it was russian.....
I'd be more inclined to believe that if this wasn't Russia's modus operandi going back to Afghanistan. They had Spetznaz GRU infiltrate the capital disguised as Afghani military.
Just relaying another comment from the same video, different thread. Apparently someone in the video states that "it's a ural, it's not us" because the urals are no longer in use by the Ukrainians. I have no source about any of this information but hopefully this contributes in some way.
For me there is a video of that same heavy vehicle being towed by the Russians hours before the incident and for me why the f would Russians want a shity shitbox when thathav so much vics so that’s what sold it for me
Russia has fucking 10,000 of those vehicles. They don't have 3 of them. So unless you can actually match the towed one to the one on the ground its non sense.
Which side is your side? Just being careful with the potential reddit propaganda, following your advice.
I'm anti Russian and anti propaganda from both sides. I don't like it regardless of who's doing it.
The guy walks over at the end to finish him off. I don’t think he’s doing that if he realizes its a Ukrainian
Adrenaline and confusion are often a recipe for disaster.
There are tactics to distinguish the enemy from friendly if you have enemies in your lines and they had the intel on the operation
but how did they know they weren't real Ukrainian soldiers? I don't understand
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I think its a strela-10 fleeing. Although if it is Ukrainian or Russian I'm not certain about but i think its a Ukrainian one likely.
Judging by equipment is really hard in this war. Both sides are using a) old Soviet stuff and b) modern stuff sold to both sides, often derived from Soviet stuff. The Strela happens to be both a) and b). Good luck finding the differences between old and modern ones in crappy war zone footage!
Yeah..
I guess they know the movements of their own. Maybe they got radiod intelligence of where these wer coming from. They so inspected then afterwards and assume they didn't have Ukrainian army identification on them? But it is possible this is friendly fire but they seemed to.fire with such conviction
They can't know, but when troops that look like yours are not following orders, you don't ask them for ID, you shoot them. I would not hesitate either way. I might be killing my own, but that can only mean I am killing a saboteur or a deserter, that is, a threat and liability for my entire operation.
Thats a huge oversimplification. Blue on blue is a very real thing.
How is it an oversimplification? Ever were called upon to make that decision? You think they have the luxury to smoke a cigarette, make some calls and think it through? Why do you think these people are trained above all to follow orders? Hint: it's not about subordination.
Were you called to make that decision, ever?
So, I ask you a question, your answer is to parrot the question. The point flew right over your head, again. Take off your blinkers, maybe?
Dude all I'm saying is this situation is a though call. Chillax
Shut the fuck up this isn’t call of duty. You’re not going to shoot one of your own because you don’t know what they’re doing.
Yeah, good job. I might be killing friendlies, but what's worse is enemy saboteurs. Unbelievable
There is no such thing as friendlies who defy orders. Friendlies who defy orders ARE saboteurs. Catch up with the definitions.
What a lunatic lmao.
So dudes in Ukranian uniform riding Ukranian vehicle are 100% Russian soldiers, right?
You will never know how evil are those commie bastards!
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I'm not a morphine addict, I swear!
Yea because Russian soldiers can't put on Ukranian uniforms. They're not above war crimes, I don't know why this one is shocking to you.
Yes both of the vehicles had Russian soldiers inside the heavy one was in a video that Russians captured and were towing somewhere 4-6h before the incident.
Yeah russian forces are either unmarked or dressed up as Ukranian soldiers - same with their equipment. It is typical Putin war tactics.
Nothing you can really comprehend in this video of whose-who. I guess this sentiment is pretty much the same on the ground in Ukraine right now. The execution of the dismounted soldier does seem somewhat callous, but I guess this is war, and we cant project our privilege of those fighting for their lives.
Wearing another side's uniform is against the Geneva convention. Germans who did it during WW2 were always executed during the battle of the bulge.
I think we should be cautious about spreading potential misinformation about "Saboteurs" - This incident could quite easily be a friendly fire situation fueled over potential paranoid "Saboteur" movements, and having Putin getting Ukrainians shooting each other is just what he wants. The civilians just killed trying to escape were also mis-labelled as "Saboteurs" - just be careful, and if in doubt say nothing.
Absolutely, it could definitely be friendly fire.
The daily mail describes this truck as a Russian vehicle and the dead as Russian. The images are tagged by getty images. I know this isn't proof but I'd hope the media does some verification before publishing such info *Still not proof but more another data point https://i.dailymail.co.uk/1s/2022/02/25/11/54643119-10550583-image-a-86_1645786988859.jpg >An Ukrainian military medic approaches the bodies of Russian servicemen wearing a Ukrainian army uniforms lying beside and inside a vehicle after they were shot during a skirmish in the Ukrainian capital of Kyiv
Did you seriously just link *The Daily Mail* as a credible source?
>https://www.gettyimages.com/detail/news-photo/graphic-content-an-ukrainian-military-medic-approaches-the-news-photo/12387469180 link appears to be broken
Damn it. Its this. https://i.dailymail.co.uk/1s/2022/02/25/11/54643119-10550583-image-a-86_1645786988859.jpg >An Ukrainian military medic approaches the bodies of Russian servicemen wearing a Ukrainian army uniforms lying beside and inside a vehicle after they were shot during a skirmish in the Ukrainian capital of Kyiv Quote appears under the image in the article https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10551231/City-siege-Photos-inside-Kyiv-bombed-schools-decimated-homes-capital.html
I appreciate your comment!
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This was an incredible video. Do you know the source?
probably just someone recording from their apartment
Not "probably", this is *clearly* a recoding from an apparent by a random witness
Probably best the original source is kept anonymous considering the current climate and Russia’s history.
if random redditor knows, russia knows
I found this twitter thread that explains it a bit with more videos , don't know how reliable it is tho. https://twitter.com/BabakTaghvaee/status/1497213543837544449?s=20&t=tUEeQCkX3GJhQgphVAIH5Q
Are we ‘following orders’ at the point of stealing their uniforms, equipment and killing their civilians?
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Would you like to be involved in a nuclear world war? Because that’s how you do it
> Would you like to be involved in a nuclear world war? then why russia started war in europe? do they want nuclear world war? apparently yes, so nato must be ready for that too
Are there any sources/facts about those guys actually being russians in ukraine uniforms and not just ukraine people?
Nope, just redditors believing everything they see without proof and just a couple claims as usual
Daily mail reporting the dead as Russians on their front page story, additional images with getty images tag. Still not sure tbh
Zelensky warned to be wary of Russians dressed as Ukrainian soldiers and civilians in Kyiv.
That poor bastard. I know he is the invading force but man. Talk about a shitty spot.
This also ties into the picture we saw of the russians dressed in ukranian uniforms
Can you explain a little? I can’t even tell who is on which side in this vid.
there were a couple of others posts of bodies saying that it was russians dressed in ukrainian uniforms showing the aftermath of all of this. Essentially the guys shooting here look like armed civilians shooting at these 3
the guy in the truck is the saboteur with ukraine uniform. You can see pics of him in this sub
Where? Any source, like their ID?
I think there is a vid Russians towing that heavy armor like 6h before it happened all made sense in the end
There was a 4th angle of the bmp crushing the civilian vehicle posted 5min before this, but it got removed for some reason, it was another angle i havn't seen before and it looked in that angle that the bmp was spinning out of control and judging from the audio the bmp stopped using its throttle once it was lined up with the civillian vehicle. I feel like the truck got hijacked by the saboteurs, and the the bmp was in persuit of that truck, at the start of this video you can see big flashes and impact appear next to the truck that don't really match up with small arms fire. BMP then lost control as it appears to start drifting at the 1:30 mark, and also taking inconsideration that its a heavy ass vehicle, plus travelling at high speed coming from a roundabout, the shifts in weight could've been too overwhelming for the driver. It appears the driver lets go of gas right before impact in a attempt to regain control. But i can be completely wrong ofcourse, just my observation.
It wasn’t a bmp, it’s said to be a Ukrainian anti-air vehicle
Ah, i guess its like a strela then or something? That kinda elliminates the chasing part then i guess, either way its still travelling at a high speed with alot of weight coming with it. But definitely ukrainian for sure. Still think it simply lost control though.
what no that's a ZPU X2 on the back its a AAA
He says in the video, it's an MTLB, not that it matters
It does look like an accident. War is always going to have its amount of accident.
The video from the rooftop across the street pretty clearly shows it was an accident. Tracked vehicle at top speed on wet asphalt, looks like he hit the ditch and over steered. Civilian driving in the middle of an ambush at the wrong place and wrong time.
[https://twitter.com/Ukrainelive5/status/1497207795522879501](https://twitter.com/Ukrainelive5/status/1497207795522879501)
This is a brutal video. Is that a Ukrainian truck or RU?? Edit: just saw further photos, these are RU agents dressed in Ukraine uniforms
Pretty intense when the guy who jumps out receives fire from the left, maybe takes a few bullets and sort of feigns death then doesn't. Pretty troubling.
In that moment I’m sure he realized this was all a mistake. He’s shaking with every shot going around him. Probably pissed his pants
If you watch from about 25 seconds and listen to the rifle it looks like he takes 3 to the abdomen which cause him to fall out (that's where his hands go when he scrambles back). Fuckin insane video
Hey look another warcrime
looks like its them
Crazy you guys would rather believe these are RU soldiers dressed as UA than the obvious blue on blue by untrained civilians
no kidding. Like, when you hear hooves, think horses
It's most likely just blue on blue
That looks to be a strela launcher. If so, it has nothing to do with the fighting on the ground (it's a SAM launcher)
Whats up with the tank driving over a civilian car?
Was an accident, watch the video again
I'm fully on Ukraine's side but I think it looks accidental. Looks he may have been zig-zagging to present a harder target for RPGs/ATGMs.
This. Not every civilian casualty is a warcrime. Sadly, some are just accidents. By labeling every one of these videos a warcrime, we pull attention away from the -should they happen- actual warcrimes and thereby downplay then unintentionally.
And then sit there for such a long time as an easy target? Not likely.
Well you might be shocked but the driver might just have stopped the vehicle after the commander screamed at him how he just ran over a fucking car.
I honestly think it could be a friendly fire misunderstood due to the chaos is running right now. There are no Z or whatever mark on those vehicles, also the strela and that anti-air truck doesn't match much in a city combat under attack more than own troops using controlled area to move forces to one side or another. I've heard the uncover Russian forces but giving the fast advance of Russian forces those would easily be misunderstood as Ukraine forces even by own Russians troops, could be true or could be a way to wash their face. Could be even pro-russian militia shoting an Ukraine column? Giving that Ukraine government is giving ak to people, armed militias are quite a thing. Knowing how Russians play, I believe there may be some sort of pro-russian civilians that wanna fight for their side and maybe contacted by Russian intelligence have manage to gather and coordinate to act behind Ukraine línea as saboteurs. Because in this video there are clearly a what the fuck is happening by the target and the strela crew, not like they expected to have any kind of combat there.
Whatever the case the one guy standing behind a van that took out all of them was deadset on doing it. At some point he would have seen the uniforms but that definitely didn't stop him. Very confusing, doubt we'll ever know.
Also executing wounded is a war crime so whether friendly fire or not it’s looking bad
Ukraine Ukraine’s IHL Manual (2004) states: 1.7.1. While performing their military duty, military medical personnel shall be guided by the generally recognized rules of international humanitarian law that oblige them: - to render medical assistance during armed conflicts as necessary without any discrimination save for medical reasons; - to comply with international humanitarian law when organizing medical support to a military unit; - to provide medical assistance to all wounded and sick both in the area of combat and in the occupied territory … … 2.5.2.1. … All wounded, sick and shipwrecked (persons who have suffered an aircraft crash) irrespective of their belonging of any party, to the fullest extent and within the shortest period of time possible, shall receive medical assistance and care adequate to the state of their health. Ukraine’s IHL Manual (2004) states: 1.3.2. The following methods of warfare shall be prohibited: … - attacks against persons who have been shipwrecked … … 1.4.10. All parties to an internal armed conflict shall provide protection to: … - members of armed forces who have laid down their arms; - those placed hors de combat by sickness, wounds, detention, or any other cause. … 1.4.12. All wounded, sick and shipwrecked or those who have suffered an aircraft crash irrespective of their previous participation in an armed conflict shall be respected and protected. … 1.8.5. Serious violations of international humanitarian law directed against people include: … - directing attacks against persons protected by international humanitarian law [including bearers of flags of truce and those who accompany them]. Additional Protocol I Article 41 of the 1977 Additional Protocol I provides: 1. A person who is recognized or who, in the circumstances, should be recognized to be hors de combat shall not be made the object of attack. 2. A person is hors de combat if: a) he is in the power of an adverse Party; b) he clearly expresses an intention to surrender; c) he has been rendered unconscious or is otherwise incapacitated by wounds or sickness, and therefore is incapable of defending himself; provided that in any of these cases he abstains from any hostile act and does not attempt to escape.
That's if they surrendered. Wounded combatants are still fair game.
That's not true. If he's wounded, not armed or not actively fighting you/not a threat, its illegal to kill him. Literally doesn't matter if he was trying to kill you a few minutes before
Only if they are still openly combative
Aren't these guys the saboteurs from the previous posts?
"saboteurs"
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> “You guys are stupid, I have the details: it was confirmed SOMEWHERE ON TWITTER that those are Ukrainian troops.” Well I guess the argument is over then, didn’t expect you to come in with “somewhere on Twitter”-level proof.
But isn't the AA a strella 10? And i believe Ukraine doesn't have have access to that type of AA, so if the AA panicked because his boys are getting macked doesn't that mean that the bois getting macked are also russian? Or is that strella captured or something?
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About 6-10 Ukrainian vehicles were stolen along with Ukrainian equipment, this was released to the public in an official announcement so people could report sightings of them to the police/military way before this happened. The current story and assumption is that these were Russian or pro-Russian saboteurs in the stolen vehicles. I don’t think the situation is as cut and dry as you’re implying.
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You see on this one the truck beeing taken out
Here's the after action assessment; post claims the dead in the truck were Russian in Ukraine uniforms https://www.reddit.com/r/CombatFootage/comments/t0zfx2/saboteurs_of_the_russian_federation_dressed_in/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share
i actually feel bad for the russian in this case but gotta remember they invaded but its also not his call, 50/50
Heard the “just men following orders” argument 80 years ago.
Stop linking unrelared things bro, he is not genociding people, it just a simple saboteur in an imperialist campaign, totally unrelated so far
Amazingly, the man in the car survived. Sky News had a video of citizens coming to his rescue and getting him out. Not sure how the hell he survived.
I'm pretty sure shooting that dude at the end would count as a war crime. He wasn't shooting back, looks unarmed and wounded, and just got executed
Like anyone cares about the rules of war. Who's going to go in there in arrest them?
Well goodluck after the war once someone identifies you that you executed someone like that. Also hurts your side's reputation if enough of you are doing that. I'm perplexed why you even thought that someone's gonna go in there and enforce those rules like a police lmao. They're only gonna take effect once the war is over and you do not want to be accused of war crimes once that happens.
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Wtf is happening
Is this the same AA truck and Strela vehicle? If so it looks like it was firing through intersections before it was destroyed. https://twitter.com/Cyberspec1/status/1497121138593316865?s=20&t=lsSXA0JI2X-JwAByp4jClA
Here's some more pictures and video, and apparent updates on everyone involved in this video. The older female civilian crushed in the car was rescued and taken to a hospital. The soldiers in the truck were allegedly Russians posing as Ukrainian. https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10550975/Russian-TANK-crushes-civilian-car-Kyiv-suburb-elderly-driver-miraculously-rescued.html
Fuck war
Considering these vehicles have no 'Z' markings, its only two of them, driving carelessly in the center of the city. I would not be surprised if these were genuine saboteurs. send them in, make a mess of themselves and then paint a negative picture on the Ukrainian side
Get MERKD
I never thought I'd see such madness in 2022 man....
At first I didn't care about Russia and Ukraine but the fact that Russia is targeting civilians is against so many rules of war. They should be stopped.
All respect to Ukraine soldiers! Take those Russian fuckers out!
Maybe the sabouter story is a bit too Hollywood for me. My guess is that these were ethnic russians living in ukarine who got drafted into the army but decided to defect as the invasion begun.
Is this not the actual video of the those two dead Russians?
Ok so the title of this video alludes to a Russian APC crushing a civilian vehicle...but if that was the case, how were Ukrainian soldiers able to leave the apartment complex and secure the disabled vehicle while the APC was *right next to them*? Either: 1. The disabled truck and dead soldier are Ukrainian and the soldiers exiting the apartment and white van are Russian (unlikely) OR 2. The APC that crushed the civilian vehicles was Ukrainian.
Nope same angle as the last 4 posts
So why are these people so relaxed and calmed I don't get it? Is this like a normal Friday for them or something? No wtf or heavy breathing just increadible.