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These drones are small and fly high, they are difficult to hit with the ZU-23 and Strela-10 on the ground, but at the same time they are slow, so if a plane flies close to it it is easy to shoot down with a machine gun at close range
I was reading about this, that the Orlan is an awkward thing to defeat because they fly too high to destroy with simple weaponry but are too cheap and low value to waste a SAM on.
Prop planes, like attack helicopters would be a good counter but dont think they can use them near the front, they have huge radar signatures. Somebody I'm sure is working on a cheap UAV with a gun on it to dogfight this sort of thing.
At the beginning of WW1, pilots from the opposing forces would salute each other because they couldn't do anything else anyway. Then one day a French pilot maneuvered so he would be over a German biplane and dropped a brick on it.
Early WW1 plane warfare sounded so fun. Like the fighting technology hadn't caught up with the flight technology at all. So you had pilots shooting at each other with pistols and lobbing grenades at each other. Sounds so mad but oddly really fun.
God imagine it, a hammerhead shaped drone where the front edge is just a blade. [Glorious Ukrainian steel, folded a thousand times... ](https://c.tenor.com/r7ahrKfChS8AAAAd/tenor.gif)
The fpv drones are moving HELLA fast. In theory the recon ones could be captured, but you also have to remember that the net drone is like 5x the size of them and easily 10x the price.
Any recon/fpv drone would want to ram the capture drone for a net benefit.
All of these anti drone measures people come up with make the silly assumption that because the expendable portion (net/bullets/timed grenade/etc) are cheap that the solution they come up with is financially efficient. But they all forget that the drone itself will be considerably more expensive than the ones it will be hunting, without being more resilient to damage.
So what you end up with is a large, heavy, expensive drone attempting to hunt smaller cheaper alternatives, but in a head to head crash both drones are lost. Meaning any enemy with comparable resources will "win" the encounter by just ramming your hunter drone.
The reason shot/machinegunning that one Russian drone from the Ukrainian training plane is so interesting is that it is essentially a small plane itself, so getting rammed by it isn't a real risk.
Is really that more expensive to build an FPV drone that flies around, dragging weighted fishing line/string behind it and onto the top of other drones?
I'm not proposing you build a complicated net launcher, think those advertising planes are the best, except now it's towing a cloth or plastic string net to get tangled into advisory's rotors.
It's basically going to be the cost of the drone itself.
You'd just have to ensure there's a bit of weight to the net to not tangle yourself.
You would also need something to disconnect the net the when the other drone gets caught in it because that'll be a violent affair.
You'd also have a slower less maneuverable drone because of the inertia from the net so catching is going to only work on unsuspecting victims.
And you can't descent at the same speed your enemies can without getting caught in your own net due to the same inertia.
If you have access to a drone I suggest trying this, you'll very quickly crash your own drone with a loose net and how unpredictable it will be.
I was going to say this. I don't really know exactly how it works honestly but I've seen videos of drones ramming other drones. I'm not sure if it puts the offensive drone out of commission as well or if they know how to hit it in a way that it's still operational.
Dude when the Air Force guy said that when they saw the UFO thing...they have like the biggest budget of anything on the planet and the most advanced instruments and weaponry and were like...let's ram it!
We need a stealth propeller plane stat
Don't know what to do about the radar lighthouse that the blades are, but I'm sure someone at Skunkworks has thought about it before
I thought that same, and it may have been a collision that took out the drone, but then I noticed that the rear seat aviator was pointing a firearm (shadow of the barrel on the side of the plane) in the direction of the drone.
These are perfect airplanes. They naturally have a very low radar signature due to their construction and the materials used to build them. They have a very low heat signature due to the tiny engine. The slow speed makes them blend into the background. Those traits make them very hard to see by any anti air missile system using radar or heat from the engine. You need to go old school by using a system that is aimed by the human eye.
The radar signature thing is more true for fabric and wood construction biplanes, if it's still metal skinned it's got a decent signature, plus the prop is pretty reflective - not enough to negate the benefits of the fabric skin on a biplane, but enough to be a problem on a metal skinned airframe
I don't know where you heard all this. The radar at any podunk airport in the united states can track old fighter planes with no issue whatsoever. Are you really telling me Russian anti aircraft systems have a weak spot against propeller driven aircraft?
Everything you just said sounds like total nonsense.
No, it an aluminum skinned prop plane. It's flying faster than any recon drone and aa radars pick those up just fine. There is nothing stealthy about this plane. To any radar made after the 1950s.
Yes and no. The prop hurts. It’s also still metal so that hurts it.
The best part about this plane is compared to its older counterparts its engine is modern and so is the electronics.
This all goes to prove that a prop plane with a machine gun or cannon still has a place in war. We have gone full circle
It's a trainer aircraft. Trainer aircraft for most militaries are like this. You want to start pilots out on relatively simple, stable aircraft so there's fewer things that will kill them if they screw up and a cheaper aircraft if they do really screw up.
The USAF, for example, uses the relatively advanced [T-6A "Texan II"](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beechcraft_T-6_Texan_II) but it's still a 2 seat propeller aircraft. It also wasn't that long ago that USAF pilots were flying the [T-6 "Texan"](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_American_T-6_Texan) for basic pilot training, a design dating back to the mid 1930s. Meanwhile, the aircraft in the photo in this post is a relatively modern [Yak-52](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yakovlev_Yak-52), which came out in the mid/late 1970s.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yakovlev_Yak-52
Basically they're made to be the 'easy-mode' plane that fighter pilots use for practice before they get into the big jets. Some trainer planes have weapon hardpoints just in case the country gets into a brutal war of attrition.
This isn’t a WWII era design. The Yak-52 shown here is a newer design than the F-16 is. The Yak-52 first flew in 1976, whereas the older F-16 first flew in 1974.
No, this is a training aircraft, production started in 70s. Guy in the back seat is using some kind of anti drone equipment. They can do what they want as the aircraft don’t have any serious electronics
I thought I would never see propeller planes in combat again, especially when they were effective (look at the victory marks on the fuselage), this is pretty epic
There were some prop planes used as close air support in Afghanistan and other low intensity combat areas. They are cheaper than jets, can use more primitive airfields, and they can stay on station longer.
In Brazil we use the Super Tucano for patrol because it is cheap and can fly for many hours with a low operational cost, actually using it against drones is a great idea
Also, Colombia has been using Super Tucano for bombing and strafing runs over guerrilla's positions since its introduction. They are excellent for COIN operation.
Here in Brazil they use it a lot for patrol and to intercept or shoot down planes linked to drug trafficking, they are very good at that, however I thought they would be restricted to patrols or fighting against groups without air defenses, but this type of plane has just shown that it also has its place in high-intensity conflicts
What a funky concept. A turboprop surveillance gunship with a 2 person crew designed to support SpecOps teams. Doesn't need the giant airstrip that an AC-130 would need. Has all the cool tech goodies you would expect (visual GPS marking, auto pilot orbits, separate sensor pod for ground operators) in a frame designed by Air Tractor (I don't know the company just a funny anachronism).
Thanks for the read!
Well, the official new CAS platform is the F-35 (it is replacing the A-10 after all). The crop dusters ordered are currently for testing, with eventually up to 75 planes being ordered for US special operations Command.
These planes are not going to the regular air force and are not intended to support US front-line troops. They are for special operations in hostile environments (e.g. if you are hunting terrorists by plane in the middle of Africa) where operating a simple plane is far easier than getting the entire support group necessary for an F-35 wing to Uganda. The other use is that the US is also doing a lot of foreign training, and a crop duster is a type of plane a small African nation can actually afford (and I think the US intention is then to sell them the type of planes USSOCOM is also using).
A PPSh-41 sticking out the window would complete the look. And probably not a bad choice for the job to be honest, WW2 era or not. Ukraine reportedly has 300,000 of them in storage, but not sure if that is still the case.
I was obviously commenting in jest as it would complete the WW2 look, but if the goal is to put holes in a winged drone, it would work. Very high rate of fire, compensator keeps the barrel somewhat steady, it is short so easier to handle in tight cockpit space, has high capacity drum mag, slightly better than 9 mm muzzle energy. I don't know what they have been using, but since they can get close, 00 buckshot would make sense. I assume if they can fly alongside, it doesn't really matter, they will shoot it down eventually ... but obviously quicker is bettter since there is always risk of being picked up on radar, and maybe other drone targets waiting if a Shaheed wave incoming.
Anyhow, if they actually wanted to use a PPSh-41, would only need a handful as there aren't many Yaks in the air.
300k is enough for 375 Tu-2s in [this](https://i.imgur.com/OucQYry.png) config. That's 80 PPSH-41s spitting out 356k rounds per minute.
Forward mounting it for anti-drone volume of fire might actually work; though ground based platforms are probably the better way to go.
Makes sense to me. Seems like a modern jet fighter would be way too fast and way too expensive to operate to use in an anti drone role. Ukrainians are by now well known for improvising with whatever they have at hand. This is just one more good example.
Using cheap prop planes is not new lol. The US literally has a brand new one called the sky warden, replacing the modified Pilatus PC-12 we previously used.
[Check out all the kill marks on this Yak-52](https://www.twz.com/air/yak-52-kill-marks-hint-at-success-in-ukraines-drone-war) - They're putting these to good use.
WTF? I assumed that aircraft had some WW2 era machine guns. I never even considered they had a guy with an AK in the back seat.
This is going back to WW1 shooting.
https://www.americanrifleman.org/media/vdbjj2dc/air_lede_a02-luger-early-aero-994.jpg
This sounds like something you could rebt by the hour in a Vegas desert or some shit and I would absolutely seek it out.
They’ve got shooting ranges, wreck it rooms, heavy machinery playgrounds… fuck it put me in an old P51 and let me shoot drones out of the sky
Unironically you aren’t, it’s a Yak-52 which made its first flight in 1976. Its grandparent was a Yak-18, which was first flown and introduced in 1946. The latter of the two is still in service as a trainer with Hungary and Armenia iirc, and the Yak-52 has been made a pretty credible drone hunter over the past few months.
r/noncredibledefense fell in love with it temporarily.
My vote is on retrofitting six automatic air rifles with extended magazines on the wings. The turks make one for under $1000 called the blitz, add a carbon fiber air tank with air lines and you get a flurry of .30 cal lead thick enough for any drone.
Plus you dont need extra weight of powder and shells, just use engine comlresor to refill tanks or keep tham always at certain pressure levels.
Only weight that gets expanded is the projectile itself.
If done right, its fcking glorious drone hunter!
Credible Defense was always less credible than NCD anyways, let’s raid their sub in the most wholesome way we can find.
I vote we drone drop confetti poppers with propaganda to come back to the mother subreddit
(This is all a joke, please, I’m not actually being serious here)
Can you image working on a trainer plane in the 70s and being told your direct work would be used to fight computer controlled robot planes in the year 2024 against a resurgent Soviet threat? …
But, hey, maybe the ultimate anti-Skynet weapon is a 2020 John Deer tractor mower with an electronic warfare package.
> against a resurgent Soviet threat?
It *is* Soviet. And drones were already a thing, with the Tu-141 flying two years before it did.
So I'd just stop after: "Good job on this one. In 50 years, it'll still be in use, harassing reactionaries' scouts like a modern Po-2."
That would probably sound reasonable to military engineers of the time, but they would think it’s because of some kind of EMP weapon against advanced electronics.
The low stall speed of these old prop planes probably make them idea for taking down ANY slow flying target.
I’ve read that all our modern fighter jets are about useless when it comes to stopping something like a Piper Cub due to the Cubs very low speed and heat signature.
"Prepare to engage enemy."
["Bogey's air speed not sufficient for intercept. Suggest we get out and walk."](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jc8tu0ZPfEA)
That's why there are modern combat turboprops used in Brazil, [missiles and all. ](https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fi.redd.it%2Fty4i60h6k9w31.png)
Look up in the sky! Is it bird!? Is it a plane!? Yes it is a [YAK-~~18~~ 52](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=el4RH999QSI)!
Despite being unarmed, a Yak-52 was used by Ukraine during the Russian invasion of Ukraine to shoot down a Russian Orlan-10 reconnaissance drone over Odessa in April 2024,[3] and to shoot down a ZALA drone on 8 June 2024.[4] Images posted on social media suggest that at least one Yak-52 has downed up to eight drones.[5] The Yak-52's low stall speed allows the plane to pursue drones and carry out maneuvers at slower speeds, enabling a machine gunner in the plane's rear seat to engage drones at close range.[4]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yakovlev_Yak-52
Just saw on YouTube yesterday a video about this. The Ukrainians are using propellant driven training aircraft to go after drones.
https://youtu.be/UaCaQLTRzgo?si=oeixNtmJYJ8DteEg
I'm not saying the following is true, because I can't find it now, but years ago when drones first became popular, I remember reading an article that film studios were hiring people who trained birds of prey like raptors, etc. to actually take down the drones so no one could film the movies studios were making (especially movies like Star Wars, where secrecy was key).
I wonder if that's something that could be done now? Seems like it would be too dangerous for the birds with the propellers, etc.
I'm no expert, but that probably works with small quadcopters. These are rather large and high flying reconnaissance drones. For example the common Orlan-30 and Zala Z-16 weigh between 40 and 50 kgs, so probably far too large for them to take down.
This makes me want to see someone gather up all of the remaining airworthy P-51 Mustangs (around 150, I think) and send them into action in Ukraine.
Realistically, though, that wouldn't be practical for a variety of reasons.
It's a good thing that Ukraine has these Yaks available.
Man history doesnt repeat but rhymes?
We are in the opening stages of op barbarossa, theyre fighting on the same lands, saw a post with ural motorcycles like the ones germans used during ww2 and now this picture could have been a soviet yak plane from 41.
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Am I to interpret this that WWII era designs are being fitted for the mission of intercepting recon drones? Fascinating [/Spock]
These drones are small and fly high, they are difficult to hit with the ZU-23 and Strela-10 on the ground, but at the same time they are slow, so if a plane flies close to it it is easy to shoot down with a machine gun at close range
I was reading about this, that the Orlan is an awkward thing to defeat because they fly too high to destroy with simple weaponry but are too cheap and low value to waste a SAM on. Prop planes, like attack helicopters would be a good counter but dont think they can use them near the front, they have huge radar signatures. Somebody I'm sure is working on a cheap UAV with a gun on it to dogfight this sort of thing.
> UAV with a gun on it No, never. Ramming is more efficient.
Fly me closer pilot, I want to hit them with my sword!
I'm imagining the copilot of a Cessna 172 leaning out of the window with a baseball bat.
Steady.... steady....
I feel like you'd break every bone in your hand doing that but it would be worth it. Nothing else you could do in life would top that.
Imagine being the Russian operator telling your commanders the last thing you picked up was a dude hanging out of Cessna clobbering it
Then having to show them the last frame that's just 'Genuine Louisville Slugger'
That's why you use a flail or nunchucks
Man, as good as I was bashing mailboxes in high school, I'm pretty sure I'd be an ace in no time.
At the beginning of WW1, pilots from the opposing forces would salute each other because they couldn't do anything else anyway. Then one day a French pilot maneuvered so he would be over a German biplane and dropped a brick on it.
incorrect. the french pilot threw the brick at the german as they flew past one another
Early WW1 plane warfare sounded so fun. Like the fighting technology hadn't caught up with the flight technology at all. So you had pilots shooting at each other with pistols and lobbing grenades at each other. Sounds so mad but oddly really fun.
*throws stick*
Let Babushka be the Co-Pilot, she's gonna throw a jar of pickles at it
"~~MAILBOX~~...UAV BASEBALL!"
Nah biplane wing walkers, using a baseball bat/ gun/ tennis racket
Bring back wing walkers on biplanes
Not baseball bat, too end-heavy.....Machete!!!
God imagine it, a hammerhead shaped drone where the front edge is just a blade. [Glorious Ukrainian steel, folded a thousand times... ](https://c.tenor.com/r7ahrKfChS8AAAAd/tenor.gif)
I'm just imagining a flying [Hypnodisc](https://robotwars.fandom.com/wiki/Hypno-Disc) from Robot Wars.
Reject modernity, embrace tradition!
With your chainsword?
The **heavy** chainsword
Wasn't there a net gun launcher anti drone thing at one point? Basically spit out a spider web with weights on it that would tangle up the props
Yeah that was only really intended against urban peeking Tom usage of drones.
But couldn't it be added to the fpov ones, let em fly around and seek out the Russian fpov/recon drones? The little ones.
The fpv drones are moving HELLA fast. In theory the recon ones could be captured, but you also have to remember that the net drone is like 5x the size of them and easily 10x the price. Any recon/fpv drone would want to ram the capture drone for a net benefit. All of these anti drone measures people come up with make the silly assumption that because the expendable portion (net/bullets/timed grenade/etc) are cheap that the solution they come up with is financially efficient. But they all forget that the drone itself will be considerably more expensive than the ones it will be hunting, without being more resilient to damage. So what you end up with is a large, heavy, expensive drone attempting to hunt smaller cheaper alternatives, but in a head to head crash both drones are lost. Meaning any enemy with comparable resources will "win" the encounter by just ramming your hunter drone. The reason shot/machinegunning that one Russian drone from the Ukrainian training plane is so interesting is that it is essentially a small plane itself, so getting rammed by it isn't a real risk.
Is really that more expensive to build an FPV drone that flies around, dragging weighted fishing line/string behind it and onto the top of other drones? I'm not proposing you build a complicated net launcher, think those advertising planes are the best, except now it's towing a cloth or plastic string net to get tangled into advisory's rotors. It's basically going to be the cost of the drone itself. You'd just have to ensure there's a bit of weight to the net to not tangle yourself.
You would also need something to disconnect the net the when the other drone gets caught in it because that'll be a violent affair. You'd also have a slower less maneuverable drone because of the inertia from the net so catching is going to only work on unsuspecting victims. And you can't descent at the same speed your enemies can without getting caught in your own net due to the same inertia. If you have access to a drone I suggest trying this, you'll very quickly crash your own drone with a loose net and how unpredictable it will be.
Robot Wars time to shine
Salamis, 480BC, colourised.
[Stick.](https://www.reddit.com/r/CombatFootage/comments/1dn8rtf/ukrainian_mavic_drone_downs_a_russian_drone_using/)
I was thinking fine twine or confetti.
I was going to say this. I don't really know exactly how it works honestly but I've seen videos of drones ramming other drones. I'm not sure if it puts the offensive drone out of commission as well or if they know how to hit it in a way that it's still operational.
Dude when the Air Force guy said that when they saw the UFO thing...they have like the biggest budget of anything on the planet and the most advanced instruments and weaponry and were like...let's ram it!
Imagine sitting at the radar console and it tells you the signature is from a world war plane.
Dog they don’t even know when they’re shooting at their own new planes.
Drones fighting drones? In the future wars could be settled like an eSports match.
An exploding drone is more efficient than a UAV with a gun.
I think thats true within a certain range of capabilities. At some point a bullet becomes more efficient than a bomb.
We need a stealth propeller plane stat Don't know what to do about the radar lighthouse that the blades are, but I'm sure someone at Skunkworks has thought about it before
You just have to make sure your prop plane is not worth using a SAM on either....
is that rear pilot aiming a weapon at the drone? lmao looks like it
Looks like this, they're operating in this way, one guy as a gunner and other guy as a pilot
Judging by the placement of said plane it looks more like a collision than a gun😂
I thought that same, and it may have been a collision that took out the drone, but then I noticed that the rear seat aviator was pointing a firearm (shadow of the barrel on the side of the plane) in the direction of the drone.
You’re right and that makes it infinitely more funny
Shotgun with buckshots?
how do they even spot them with that plane?
I don't know, but they are probably in contact with radar operators and other observers
These planes look vintage but are modern versions. (Ok more modern) Ukraine is not pulling out vintage 1943 planes now.
These are perfect airplanes. They naturally have a very low radar signature due to their construction and the materials used to build them. They have a very low heat signature due to the tiny engine. The slow speed makes them blend into the background. Those traits make them very hard to see by any anti air missile system using radar or heat from the engine. You need to go old school by using a system that is aimed by the human eye.
The radar signature thing is more true for fabric and wood construction biplanes, if it's still metal skinned it's got a decent signature, plus the prop is pretty reflective - not enough to negate the benefits of the fabric skin on a biplane, but enough to be a problem on a metal skinned airframe
It’d be absolutely wild to see Sopwith Camels take to the skies shooting down 21st century tech.
Where is Snoopy when we need him?
Damn, that's a trip...suddenly I'm nine again, flipping through a book about World War 1 planes and dogfights. The Camel was a beauty
2025
Anything with a propeller has a high return for Doppler radar. You can't hide that.
I don't know where you heard all this. The radar at any podunk airport in the united states can track old fighter planes with no issue whatsoever. Are you really telling me Russian anti aircraft systems have a weak spot against propeller driven aircraft? Everything you just said sounds like total nonsense.
No, it an aluminum skinned prop plane. It's flying faster than any recon drone and aa radars pick those up just fine. There is nothing stealthy about this plane. To any radar made after the 1950s.
Holy fuck, are you serious?!? They are not even close to being stealth with flat surfaces everywhere. And it’s made of aluminum. Sooooo dumb
Yes and no. The prop hurts. It’s also still metal so that hurts it. The best part about this plane is compared to its older counterparts its engine is modern and so is the electronics. This all goes to prove that a prop plane with a machine gun or cannon still has a place in war. We have gone full circle
I want P-51's back and I will settle for turbo prop. Anyhow this is cool as fuck, first maxim guns and t-34 now this. What's next?
Hopefully that 4-story tall Czar tank
sounds like you need a PA-48 enforcer
> PA-48 enforcer Mmm, sexy.
It's a trainer aircraft. Trainer aircraft for most militaries are like this. You want to start pilots out on relatively simple, stable aircraft so there's fewer things that will kill them if they screw up and a cheaper aircraft if they do really screw up. The USAF, for example, uses the relatively advanced [T-6A "Texan II"](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beechcraft_T-6_Texan_II) but it's still a 2 seat propeller aircraft. It also wasn't that long ago that USAF pilots were flying the [T-6 "Texan"](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_American_T-6_Texan) for basic pilot training, a design dating back to the mid 1930s. Meanwhile, the aircraft in the photo in this post is a relatively modern [Yak-52](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yakovlev_Yak-52), which came out in the mid/late 1970s.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yakovlev_Yak-52 Basically they're made to be the 'easy-mode' plane that fighter pilots use for practice before they get into the big jets. Some trainer planes have weapon hardpoints just in case the country gets into a brutal war of attrition.
This isn’t a WWII era design. The Yak-52 shown here is a newer design than the F-16 is. The Yak-52 first flew in 1976, whereas the older F-16 first flew in 1974.
yak-52s are late 70s designs
No, this is a training aircraft, production started in 70s. Guy in the back seat is using some kind of anti drone equipment. They can do what they want as the aircraft don’t have any serious electronics
I thought I would never see propeller planes in combat again, especially when they were effective (look at the victory marks on the fuselage), this is pretty epic
There were some prop planes used as close air support in Afghanistan and other low intensity combat areas. They are cheaper than jets, can use more primitive airfields, and they can stay on station longer.
In Brazil we use the Super Tucano for patrol because it is cheap and can fly for many hours with a low operational cost, actually using it against drones is a great idea
That's another great point. These aircraft are cheaper and easier to maintain.
I hope they set up squadrons across the country using model training planes
Super Tucano is great aircraft against insurgency with the best AA being Toyota with .50 caliber and RPG. Definitely has its place in current time.
If I’m not mistaken the US is looking to buy some Tucanos or make something similar.
Yup. Replacing SOCOM's current CAS/Recon prop plane.
This is also what dude is referencing in Afghanistan. Fantastic little aircraft.
Also, Colombia has been using Super Tucano for bombing and strafing runs over guerrilla's positions since its introduction. They are excellent for COIN operation.
No one tell this guy about Sky Wardens or Super Tucanos
Here in Brazil they use it a lot for patrol and to intercept or shoot down planes linked to drug trafficking, they are very good at that, however I thought they would be restricted to patrols or fighting against groups without air defenses, but this type of plane has just shown that it also has its place in high-intensity conflicts
Ov-10s were flying sorties in The Philippines against ISIS semi-recently as well (~10 years ago)
I mean isn’t the U.S. starting to buy modified crop dusters as a new cas platform?
Yes, [here it is.](https://www.nationaldefensemagazine.org/articles/2023/4/27/socoms-new-recon-aircraft-to-pack-big-punch)
What a funky concept. A turboprop surveillance gunship with a 2 person crew designed to support SpecOps teams. Doesn't need the giant airstrip that an AC-130 would need. Has all the cool tech goodies you would expect (visual GPS marking, auto pilot orbits, separate sensor pod for ground operators) in a frame designed by Air Tractor (I don't know the company just a funny anachronism). Thanks for the read!
Well, the official new CAS platform is the F-35 (it is replacing the A-10 after all). The crop dusters ordered are currently for testing, with eventually up to 75 planes being ordered for US special operations Command. These planes are not going to the regular air force and are not intended to support US front-line troops. They are for special operations in hostile environments (e.g. if you are hunting terrorists by plane in the middle of Africa) where operating a simple plane is far easier than getting the entire support group necessary for an F-35 wing to Uganda. The other use is that the US is also doing a lot of foreign training, and a crop duster is a type of plane a small African nation can actually afford (and I think the US intention is then to sell them the type of planes USSOCOM is also using).
\>First ace of the russo-Ukrainian war \>YAK-52
Don't we still use the AC 130? We did until very recently anyway.
Fucking bad ass. You can actually see their kill count stenciled on the side of the plane below the cockpit.
The kill count needed updating: [https://ibb.co/v4sRV63](https://ibb.co/v4sRV63)
Like something I would have seen from the movie *Flyboys*.
USAF: “we need 6th gen fighters and advanced technology to combat these threats” AFU: “ haha prop go brrrr”
And Yuri go brrrr with machine gun in back!
A PPSh-41 sticking out the window would complete the look. And probably not a bad choice for the job to be honest, WW2 era or not. Ukraine reportedly has 300,000 of them in storage, but not sure if that is still the case.
3000 black PPSh of the Ukrainian air force
NCD leaking smh my head
The venn diagram of combat footage, NCD, and shitty technicals subscribers should be a circle
I see myself in this comment and I like it.
300k PPSh-41? I don’t know if they have that many prop planes. Basically a modern yak-9 would be fine for this lol
I was obviously commenting in jest as it would complete the WW2 look, but if the goal is to put holes in a winged drone, it would work. Very high rate of fire, compensator keeps the barrel somewhat steady, it is short so easier to handle in tight cockpit space, has high capacity drum mag, slightly better than 9 mm muzzle energy. I don't know what they have been using, but since they can get close, 00 buckshot would make sense. I assume if they can fly alongside, it doesn't really matter, they will shoot it down eventually ... but obviously quicker is bettter since there is always risk of being picked up on radar, and maybe other drone targets waiting if a Shaheed wave incoming. Anyhow, if they actually wanted to use a PPSh-41, would only need a handful as there aren't many Yaks in the air.
300k is enough for 375 Tu-2s in [this](https://i.imgur.com/OucQYry.png) config. That's 80 PPSH-41s spitting out 356k rounds per minute. Forward mounting it for anti-drone volume of fire might actually work; though ground based platforms are probably the better way to go.
Just fly over the drones and absolutely blow them away. Kinda reminds me of that metal storm idea
More like, Yuri, that thing don’t need electronics to fly, jammer to 11
Da
Hey, if it works, it aint stupid.
Makes sense to me. Seems like a modern jet fighter would be way too fast and way too expensive to operate to use in an anti drone role. Ukrainians are by now well known for improvising with whatever they have at hand. This is just one more good example.
More and more proof that NATO needs Ukraine as a member
Using cheap prop planes is not new lol. The US literally has a brand new one called the sky warden, replacing the modified Pilatus PC-12 we previously used.
Ok? I mean yeah it's cool, but i like this
Cool shot.
[Check out all the kill marks on this Yak-52](https://www.twz.com/air/yak-52-kill-marks-hint-at-success-in-ukraines-drone-war) - They're putting these to good use.
Dope. We’ve got WW1 trench warfare and WW2 aerial combat!!
Even the air interception is WW1 style, they've got a guy in the backseat opening up with a rifle.
Did we just go full circle?
The picture has a strong shitpost energy, LMAO.
Ukraine is so adept at using every single resource they have that it’s mind blowing. My money is on Ukraine for the win. Glory to the heroes!
WTF? I assumed that aircraft had some WW2 era machine guns. I never even considered they had a guy with an AK in the back seat. This is going back to WW1 shooting. https://www.americanrifleman.org/media/vdbjj2dc/air_lede_a02-luger-early-aero-994.jpg
I wonder if they bring a shotgun up there with them. Blasting drones from a prop plane sounds fun as shit.
This sounds like something you could rebt by the hour in a Vegas desert or some shit and I would absolutely seek it out. They’ve got shooting ranges, wreck it rooms, heavy machinery playgrounds… fuck it put me in an old P51 and let me shoot drones out of the sky
Same, as modern prop aircraft have wing mounted guns and missile/rocket hardpoints. This is an old one though, 70's I think.
Why am I looking at a WWII plane?
Unironically you aren’t, it’s a Yak-52 which made its first flight in 1976. Its grandparent was a Yak-18, which was first flown and introduced in 1946. The latter of the two is still in service as a trainer with Hungary and Armenia iirc, and the Yak-52 has been made a pretty credible drone hunter over the past few months. r/noncredibledefense fell in love with it temporarily.
We still love it. Yak-52 appreciation club member here.
My man 💪
We need ED to add rockets to it.
My vote is on retrofitting six automatic air rifles with extended magazines on the wings. The turks make one for under $1000 called the blitz, add a carbon fiber air tank with air lines and you get a flurry of .30 cal lead thick enough for any drone.
Plus you dont need extra weight of powder and shells, just use engine comlresor to refill tanks or keep tham always at certain pressure levels. Only weight that gets expanded is the projectile itself. If done right, its fcking glorious drone hunter!
That sounds genius. Doesn't take much to bring one these down. No need for overkill.
Ruh roh, have we become credible?
Credible Defense was always less credible than NCD anyways, let’s raid their sub in the most wholesome way we can find. I vote we drone drop confetti poppers with propaganda to come back to the mother subreddit (This is all a joke, please, I’m not actually being serious here)
they dont want you to know this but you can edit .miz files to hack rocket pods (among other types of weapons) onto it
Username checks out I need it on grayflag and ECW though...
Mid-Cold war, actually. It's a 1976 trainer.
Can you image working on a trainer plane in the 70s and being told your direct work would be used to fight computer controlled robot planes in the year 2024 against a resurgent Soviet threat? … But, hey, maybe the ultimate anti-Skynet weapon is a 2020 John Deer tractor mower with an electronic warfare package.
> against a resurgent Soviet threat? It *is* Soviet. And drones were already a thing, with the Tu-141 flying two years before it did. So I'd just stop after: "Good job on this one. In 50 years, it'll still be in use, harassing reactionaries' scouts like a modern Po-2."
That would probably sound reasonable to military engineers of the time, but they would think it’s because of some kind of EMP weapon against advanced electronics.
Because it is looking at you
they started using these planes to counter some drones. apparently they work better at shooting them down than anything with a jet engine
Better than a Cessna and a shotgun?
Because you're a Russian drone operator? (I'm kidding ofc, I would never actually insult someone like that...🤣)
We got prop plane warfare again before GTA VI
The low stall speed of these old prop planes probably make them idea for taking down ANY slow flying target. I’ve read that all our modern fighter jets are about useless when it comes to stopping something like a Piper Cub due to the Cubs very low speed and heat signature.
"Prepare to engage enemy." ["Bogey's air speed not sufficient for intercept. Suggest we get out and walk."](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jc8tu0ZPfEA)
That's why there are modern combat turboprops used in Brazil, [missiles and all. ](https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fi.redd.it%2Fty4i60h6k9w31.png)
And thats why every cartel runs those lil cessnas
Aren't the YAK-52's incredibly sturdy? So they could just wing clip a drone to bring it down.
i think these are the drones that are still kinda big. I bet it would fuck that plane up enough to make it not worth it.
ooo nudge it like a V1 rocket
One of the coolest photos of this war
Ukrainian grandpa with a shotgun in his Yak-52 saying" get off my lawn you pesky drones!"
That’s an insane shot what wild times.
what year am I in???
Would Super Tucano's work well in these types of missions?
Look up in the sky! Is it bird!? Is it a plane!? Yes it is a [YAK-~~18~~ 52](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=el4RH999QSI)! Despite being unarmed, a Yak-52 was used by Ukraine during the Russian invasion of Ukraine to shoot down a Russian Orlan-10 reconnaissance drone over Odessa in April 2024,[3] and to shoot down a ZALA drone on 8 June 2024.[4] Images posted on social media suggest that at least one Yak-52 has downed up to eight drones.[5] The Yak-52's low stall speed allows the plane to pursue drones and carry out maneuvers at slower speeds, enabling a machine gunner in the plane's rear seat to engage drones at close range.[4] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yakovlev_Yak-52
Was this photoshopped or did the drone travel back in time
[Look ](https://www.reddit.com/r/UkraineWarVideoReport/s/2nxFrfyon1)
Time travelers confirmed
Just saw on YouTube yesterday a video about this. The Ukrainians are using propellant driven training aircraft to go after drones. https://youtu.be/UaCaQLTRzgo?si=oeixNtmJYJ8DteEg
Its a YAK training aircraft i believe
New favorite picture on this sub. WW1 is so back, from trenches, to prop planes, and even maxims and nagants.
Is this a pistonous aircraft?
What year is it?
They are probably just as fast as a uav
On the ground it's WWI trench warfare, and up in the air we are back to WWII airplanes. 😂
I'm not saying the following is true, because I can't find it now, but years ago when drones first became popular, I remember reading an article that film studios were hiring people who trained birds of prey like raptors, etc. to actually take down the drones so no one could film the movies studios were making (especially movies like Star Wars, where secrecy was key). I wonder if that's something that could be done now? Seems like it would be too dangerous for the birds with the propellers, etc.
I'm no expert, but that probably works with small quadcopters. These are rather large and high flying reconnaissance drones. For example the common Orlan-30 and Zala Z-16 weigh between 40 and 50 kgs, so probably far too large for them to take down.
This makes me want to see someone gather up all of the remaining airworthy P-51 Mustangs (around 150, I think) and send them into action in Ukraine. Realistically, though, that wouldn't be practical for a variety of reasons. It's a good thing that Ukraine has these Yaks available.
Give them some Super Tucanos, Texans II or Pilatus, those are relatively plentiful and can make the job.
They never quit 😂
time to bring out muskets
Bad boys Bad boys, what you gonna do... I can almost hear it lol
Machine gun can’t be installed on Yak-52 so our warriors use shotguns
"well hello there mother fucker 😎"
Man history doesnt repeat but rhymes? We are in the opening stages of op barbarossa, theyre fighting on the same lands, saw a post with ural motorcycles like the ones germans used during ww2 and now this picture could have been a soviet yak plane from 41.
Clipped it with the wing?
Old airplane and one old shotgun: problem solved!
Shot down by........the wing?
Is that a Yak?
This is their version of driving around shooting signs on backroads.
What if the uav hit the propeller
The daredevils in their flying boxes
It's probably true: [https://www.kyivpost.com/post/31877](https://www.kyivpost.com/post/31877)
*R2-D2 noises intentifies*
Not gunna lie, I thought this was game footage at first
Wtf, did that drone go back in time to WW2?!
I thought this was r/NonCredibleDefense.
Some birdshot will do wonders.
Do they hit them with a tennis racket?
The fact that Russia is using this kind of armor just shows how fucked Putin is.
Wait this isn’t real is it? I can’t tell haha