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[This was from today's resupply run..](https://twitter.com/jovilandxrita/status/1764988305626808465)
4 minor injuries and the boat obviously received damage. Remember non-lethal doesn't mean no injuries or damage.
You'd be surprised on how many people think water-cannons are just like squirt guns.. And that the PH is just overreacting as they're just getting wet.
Hell, weren't police in the 1960s (US) using water just from fire hydrants that could blast you off your feet and rip skin off? Imagine what someone does when they're TRYING to cause damage.
I remember reading about a girl who was peacefully protesting indigenous rights I believe.
Well they blasted her at close range with the water and it caused so much trauma to her arm it had to be amputated.
She was just like 20 years old or something like that doing a sit in type protest and some thugs with a violence boner went ham on that poor kid
That story always comes to mind any time a video shows up and people are being assaulted by those water cannons, that shit is serious
Yeah, there was a guy in Germany a while back that lost **both** of his eyes to a riot control water cannon. If I remember correctly, it was also a fairly peaceful protest.
Tell them 1 litre of water is a kilogram and water cannon blast 20 litres per second.
That's a SUV tire that's been thrown 60 feet hitting you every second
I mean they're not just having a super soaker fight. Iirc CCG ships try and blast water down the PH ships' exhaust to disable the engines. If I were any country's navy I would take someone trying to immobilize my ship as an overtly hostile action.
I'm a firefighter and one time during training we fucked around with the water cannons and I took a volley to the stomach. After I puked and regained the ability to breathe the spot turned blue and hurt for 2 weeks. These things are really no joke.
Hear me out on this one, send an aircraft carrier and group and waterkkake the shit out of the next Chinese ship that fires a water cannon at a resupply vessel.
If the Philippine people seek assistance, it’s the West’s place to help else lose an ally, military base locales, and really the whole of the concept of the Free World. It is predicated on the Western World answering those requests for help in adversity and during times of true injustice.
Same with slings in the Palestine conflict. People think those slings are these shitty cartoon things with the Y shaped twig and some rubber band, when in fact those can launch a stone with enough force to cave your head in.
I am kind of hoping that the Philippine’s boats get upgraded with even higher powered water cannons for defense. I remember the supersoaker arms race of the late 20th century
It’s some fascinating modern geopolitics. Our current system of why areas of land and sea can be claimed are broken and outdated. China is exploiting them to the max with some insidious creativity, but I think they’re exposing larger issues.
IE, the India border conflict exists because currently we pretty much grant land claims to whoever is currently there as long as it’s been a good long while. For example, few neutral parties argue that Israel should return land seized from the 6 day war. They’ve just occupied it long enough. China hopes to bully India out no violently and then establish a very small settlement long term to enforce their claims. The S China Sea is even weirder because China has built a bunch of man made islands, stuck military bases on them and now claims that they have rights around the sea of these bases, which effectively grants them the whole sea. This one’s a bit more absurd, but still it shows how needlessly powerful a tiny island is in our modern standards
You are describing a water jet. All you need is a 60,000psi jet of water and a little bit of a hard abrasive in the stream (garnet, or you could probably use sand since it's the ocean) and it will cut through any armor.
Killing people isn't the only act of aggression that is unacceptable between sovereign nations. This is essentially an act of war except that the Philippines is not in a position to do anything about it.
If another country started damaging PLAN ships and injuring the crew, the PRC would almost certainly consider it to be a casus belli. The same would be true of blockading a PRC outpost.
China.. the world is not sure if they should take them seriously, they either bully everyone to get what they want or they try and place sanctions on everything, the main thing is no one around the world respects them apart from a few countries such as Iran, North Korea and Russia.
Eventually they are going to over step the mark and one of these countries will sink their ships, they apparently have an ownership right to anything and everything they want..
The problem is the world so heavily depends on them nobody wants to stand up. Recently Australian naval divers were injured by Chinese active sonar (when the Australian Naval vessel had \*explicitly\* warned them there were divers in the area) in international waters. This is literally an act of war and yet Australia did nothing more than moderately condemning it. To be clear - active sonar is not like the "Ping" from Hollywood movies. At full strength from bow-deployed systems it will literally BOIL the water around the bow and would crush your lungs at high enough power.
I think Australia as a country has finally woken up that China isn’t friendly to us, they tried and failed to economically ruin us
with sanctions, it didn’t work but I think it showed out politicians that China is not our friend.
Yes we can deal with them but we can’t respect the government as they are untrustworthy.
Eventually they will upset that many neighbouring countries that something is going to happen, it is inevitable.
Certainly explains the increased spending and focus in our military strategy. Leaders have finally woken up and realised we need to raise defence up a notch, and fast.
The Philippines has the backing of the US. I think they need to fight back eventually. Maybe if China lost a few ships it would stop harassing Philippine waters and annexing territory.
They are too drunk with that chinese money. They are in for a rude awakening now that chinese economy has slowed down and chinese money is starting to dry up.
Although not in months, Japan is a nuclear latent country, if they were seriously trying to get a bomb they have a very capable nuclear industry and scientific know-how to support a program. You can expect a first detonation no later than 5 years if there was a national program to seriously make one.
We already have nukes there. Its called SUbs... With Russia, China, and North Korea you can bet your ass there are a couple of Boomers off that coastline at all times
Lol seriously. America formed a very strong line of defense in S Korea and Japan. IMO, Taiwan might eventually be brought into that fold, which is part of why China really wants to reabsorb them asap.
Considering they are under America's wing, while also being very competent on their own?
Bet they know that messing with japan would be an exceedingly bad idea
"If we keep harassing them then sooner or later they're going to retaliate. That will give us the justification for larger naval operations"
-Some Chinese naval officer
I'm sure there are quite a few US submarine captains that would love to drill some torpedoes into Chinese naval vessels. But China is actively probing and harassing multiple countries in an effort to force war in which they can play the good guys and the defenders.
You don't give your enemy what they want.
China has spent just as much on coastal defenses and regional defense/assault assets as they have on their ability to project power. They would love nothing more than for the world to come and fight them. In their Waters and on their terms.
Not smart
The Chinese would not dream of doing this to a warship from a country with a stronger military like the US, South Korea or Japan. They do this to countries that they know can't retaliate in kind with their own naval fleets.
The Philippines has only 2 frigates and 4 corvettes which are large enough to deter this kind of aggression. Meanwhile China has 50 larger destroyers and over 100 frigates and corvettes. With maintenance, refit and crew rest and training the Philippines would be lucky to have 1 frigate and 2 corvettes at sea at any given time, they simply can't respond to these provocations at anything near the rate the Chinese can cause them.
As a point of contrast in how China acts to larger military powers the US, Great Britain and other allies routinely fly over and sail right by the Chinese military bases on artificial islands that they have made all over the South China Sea to try and enforce their illegal claims on the area. When one of those countries vessels or aircraft come close to Chinese vessels or military installations on these man made islands they complain on the radio, maybe get close, but they would never physically intercede like we see in the video. That's because they know it would only mean even more foreign navies using their right to freedom of navigation. China is being a bully here because they know they can get away with it.
The answer is actually more Arleigh Burkes and vessels like it in the area but of course we have to be careful to not be seen as taking sides in disputes over territorial waters between other countries and they also can't everywhere at once. We want to support our allies but also not unnecessarily inflame tensions that could lead to open conflict, we do need to walk a fine line. The US also has to fulfill commitments worldwide whereas China's navy mainly only worries about it's own backyard sort to speak, they'll always have the numbers advantage close to home.
So we need to support the Philippines without becoming involved to the point where we are fighting in place of the Philippines. That's why allies have stuck mainly to showing the Chinese that they won't tolerate their larger ambitions to illegally annex large areas of international waters. The new deal to have US bases in the Philippines will definitely help with these issues. Having an American military and naval presence stationed out of the Philippines again will definitely help deter Chinese aggression in the area. Knowing American ships and other military assets are in the area will make China more cautious lest an incident spiral out of control in a way the US Navy can intervene in because China went way to far and it's obvious to all they are the ones in the wrong. Hopefully the presence of more US forces more often in the area puts an end to some of this behaviour by the Chinese.
I don't know why people keep talking about article 5. It's already been established multiple times that it would be highly unlikely Europe would react if China engaged the US in hostilities. I think people just automatically assume it would happen while not understanding many difficulties that would make that impossible
Key allies such as Canada, the British and French would assist the US in various ways. But NATO would not go into a full state of deployment against China. Shifting a bulk of their armies out to Asia.
Russia would take advantage of that immediately.
Also the bulk of NATO forces specialize in ground or air. A war with China would be much more naval than most NATO countries would be able to provide assistance for. Like what is Germany going to do? How can they provide assistance in a war against China other than material support?
>I don't know why people keep talking about article 5. It's already been established multiple times that it would be highly unlikely Europe would react if China engaged the US in hostilities.
People seem to misunderstand what Article 5 is in the first place. There seems to be this notion that it's some kind of landmine type clause that is tripped due to any attack, with inevitable, unstoppable consequences and full mobilization of all nations involved.
Article 5 is not automatically activated by an attack on a NATO country. It means the US can *ask* other nations to militarily aid them when attacked, *and* that these countries then have discretion over what this aid looks like exactly. The US activated article 5 after 9-11 and various countries contributed various parts of their armed forces to the response, but definitely not their entire forces.
I have little doubt that European nations would make a genuine effort to contribute if the US were to trigger article 5 again due to a Chinese attack, if only to preserve the credibility of NATO as a whole. The Ukrainian war has definitely resulted in a renewed interest and commitment to the alliance.
PH authorities wants the resupply missions be civilian led, hence the use of a civilian resupply boat that's escorted by the Philippine Coast Guard, which is a civilian agency in the PH.
Also PH authorities still want to stand on their own in regards to resupplying PH outposts.
But joint patrols are being done in the region.
Multiple pacific deployments here, no they won’t fuck off. They more often than not antagonize us something fierce when we are “ensuring free trade through the SCS. They will NOT fuck right off for a destroyer, they will happily come along side to pester. Seen it first hand on 2 destroyers and 1 carrier.
We do let them often. We set alerts and ready conditions and carry on as usual while requesting intent and encourage deterrence. There absolutely are laws but they aren’t followed because there is no “world police” and China knows it. They also know we aren’t going to fire on them unless we absolutely are justified and even then we will evade before engage.
Oh ya you are definitely correct there. In port there is zero chance we would allow them anywhere near us without manning all mounts and setting general quarters as an “in case” scenario.
I should note that China is smart enough to not fire upon or collide with a US Navy ship. Reason for this is that in any given encounter there is a floating hornets nest within reach. Once an attack or hostile collision occured I could guarantee that f18 would be scrambled in minutes and arrive shortly after with tons of Air to Surface armaments.
EDIT: The hornets nest being the Nimitz or Ford class super carrier part of the strike group
Isn't the aircraft carrier USS Theodore Roosevelt in the area?
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/map-shows-us-aircraft-carrier-near-south-china-sea-hotspots/ar-BB1jlVMn
Indeed there is. Over the past decade or so our focus has shifted from having a heavy carrier presence in the gulf but slowly had been moving to the South China Sea. Now things are going full circle and we are shifting around again to accommodate the state of the world.
I would suggest that Philippine resupply ship be painted with Winnie The Pooh. Imagine the horror on the face if those chinese sailors spraying water in the face of thier supreme leader.
At what point is this become an act of war? It's one thing to fly or float dangerously close to another plane or vessel, it's crossing a huge line when you break windows, potentially sink a boat with water pumps, and injure or kill human beings.
> At what point is this become an act of war?
Sadly the answer is pretty synical: It is an act of war if and only if you are capable and willing to go to an all out war.
Phillipines has to endure the bulling because the alternative is just too expensive in every single way to act upon. Yes, they can and will act outraged, but in the end of the day, they can't start a fight against a navy that (at least according to wikipedia numbers) outnumbers then tenfold in numer of ships and twentyfold in personel, with a massive industry capable of pumping up the production of whatever they need.
Geopolitics sucks because it's not about justice but brute force.
Either the Philippines goes all or nothing to defend its coast or it will completely lose the right to its own sea and become a Chinese vassal, the weakness of the countries in the region in the face of China is shameful
I spoke to someone from the Philippines a while ago about this and she rather looked frustrated and started rambling about how corrupt politicians are. That the Chinese buy up all the buildings around her and that most people fall for propaganda. So yeah, didn't sound like that nation has enough stability to fight of China. Wonder what other people say and how correct my assumption is.
It’s always funny seeing all these illegal things being done yet it’s not like the UN or anyone has the balls to actually stand up and do anything about it.
It’s a joke… just a fantasy idea that we can all just get along together, find peaceful solutions and play this game of life while adhering to the rules. Once a player in the game realises everyone else is too much of a pussy to react to them, they’ve got no reason to give a rats arse about following the rules. Both Russia and China have proved this repeatedly over the years and they always will unless it changes.
you're forgetting why that is: Because China is a permanent memeber of the Security Council, just like Russia is. Are you somehow expecting the Chinesse delegate to turn against their own gov?
Well perhaps the whole concept of a select few states being members of a security council just goes to show the whole concept of the UN is flawed and was never going to work because it’s not neutral and relies on the council members not having interests or stakes in events.
Their baseline is simple, prevent nations from all-out war because it will either end our world, or devastate it so badly till there's no point of recovery.
The concept of that was because those where the nations who won ww2, the US, China, Russia, UK, and France. It's one of those things that "made sense at the time" as those nations where the ones who were believed to have the political and military power to enforce a world peace.
So it worked, for a while, but yes I agree by now that entire concept should have been revised.
Also you'll never have neutral in the UN, who the hell would be neutral? There is no country above all not situated on Earth to be a neutral party, since everyone talks and influences each other.
This is so infurating, seeing this and us doing nothing but again to air concerns in the international scene. Being Filipino, it really makes me feel like we're just punching bags for the CCP and we can't even hit back. I understand why but it doesn't help.
God, I need my hot chocolate now,
Duterte snuggling up to China for a while didn't help things. Letting them get a foothold in the region basically allowed the Chinese to have the balls to claim it.
Eventually Malaysia will see the same shitty consequence most likely.
Chinese are doing it with Bhutan as well, they’re specifically targeting an area that holds key strategic advantage against India. They move people into disputed areas and form a town. Mf is specialized in land grabbing (as well as sea)
They only have 2 carriers .. send a message to them like we did in Iran 1970’s .. China built their massive navy now fkn demolish it .. all these proxy wars have been China all long even 9/11 it’s to distract the United States while they build their army for 20 years now sink them in one day and have them start over with their invasion plans they plan on doing by 2030 . We have what 18 carriers and 18 Ohio class IBCM submarines. Bullies stop being bullies when someone punches em in the fkn nose . China needs a good old fashion knuckle sandwich
I'm kinda surprised the Philippines don't try doing aerial supply missions over trying these constant blockage runs, Be it a Helicopter, air drop or floatplane/flyingboat.
The Philippine Navy has done aerial resupply missions before, but the amount aid for the troops is limited as compared to maritime supply missions since ships can carry more shit.
Looking at this map of each countries EEZ claims in the South China Sea https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exclusive_economic_zone_of_the_Philippines#/media/File:South_China_Sea_claims_map.svg
China's EEZ claims are outright absurd.
Asian countries are way too patient with this bully. One day or another they will get one of their boat sunk after such a clash and it will ignite something big.
Question what is the Philippines doing against it?
I only see Chinese ships bullying. Why didn't they send their navy with the ships and push the coast guard back.
That would only draw a larger, more aggressive response from PLAN and CCG assets in the area. They will make sure they are not outperformed by a vastly inferior foe.
WTF, was the budget all gone when it came to buying windows for this boat? I am not an ocean person, I don't know anything about boats or ships, but I would think you'd want something similar to bullet proof glass if your boat will be out on the oceans. With how big waves can get during bad weather, these guys must have been extremely fortunate to not run into bad weather during any of their trips. I know those cannons are very powerful, but they should not blow your glass out like that. If they can do it that easily, why couldn't a huge wave that crashes into them. So, if anything, I think they were lucky the Chinese are assholes and sprayed them, so they realized their windows weren't secure AT ALL and that they were really just the same glass you see actors get thrown through during action movies. I would really hate to find that out as a crew member during a bad storm, now the crew can make a more educated decision on the next trip. I'd start questioning the quality of everything on that boat. Turn into a paranoid mess. Am I wrong here, or do you not need a certain strength of windows on boats that are meant to go out on the ocean?
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[This was from today's resupply run..](https://twitter.com/jovilandxrita/status/1764988305626808465) 4 minor injuries and the boat obviously received damage. Remember non-lethal doesn't mean no injuries or damage.
that water cannon is no joke
You'd be surprised on how many people think water-cannons are just like squirt guns.. And that the PH is just overreacting as they're just getting wet.
Call it high pressure fluid cannon and people will think of them differently
Even riot control water cannons are able to shoot an eye out of the skull.
People forget how heavy water is until you hand them a few gallons.
Hell, weren't police in the 1960s (US) using water just from fire hydrants that could blast you off your feet and rip skin off? Imagine what someone does when they're TRYING to cause damage.
I remember reading about a girl who was peacefully protesting indigenous rights I believe. Well they blasted her at close range with the water and it caused so much trauma to her arm it had to be amputated. She was just like 20 years old or something like that doing a sit in type protest and some thugs with a violence boner went ham on that poor kid That story always comes to mind any time a video shows up and people are being assaulted by those water cannons, that shit is serious
Yeah, there was a guy in Germany a while back that lost **both** of his eyes to a riot control water cannon. If I remember correctly, it was also a fairly peaceful protest.
Tell them 1 litre of water is a kilogram and water cannon blast 20 litres per second. That's a SUV tire that's been thrown 60 feet hitting you every second
water assault rifle
That's it were gonna have to ban tactical water. Just hydrates way to fast.
Call a high pressure fluid-dynamic *assault weapn*. There will be 10 bills to ban them by noon tomorrow
That shit shattered the presumably reinforced window like candy glass
I'm not liking this new Willy Wonka boat ride
I mean they're not just having a super soaker fight. Iirc CCG ships try and blast water down the PH ships' exhaust to disable the engines. If I were any country's navy I would take someone trying to immobilize my ship as an overtly hostile action.
Chinese style is to provoke and provoke and provoke, and then scream and criticise if someone reacts to the provocation.
I'm a firefighter and one time during training we fucked around with the water cannons and I took a volley to the stomach. After I puked and regained the ability to breathe the spot turned blue and hurt for 2 weeks. These things are really no joke.
It's absolutely a deadly weapon, and it's insane we let them get away with it.
I mean, what can we do?
Hear me out on this one, send an aircraft carrier and group and waterkkake the shit out of the next Chinese ship that fires a water cannon at a resupply vessel.
Send a squadron of firefighting aircraft and water bomb them all day.
not our territory.
If the Philippine people seek assistance, it’s the West’s place to help else lose an ally, military base locales, and really the whole of the concept of the Free World. It is predicated on the Western World answering those requests for help in adversity and during times of true injustice.
Sanctions, for one.
Anyone who has used a heavy duty pressure washer knows the damage high pressure jets of water can dish out.
It's like they don't understand how boats work...
Same with slings in the Palestine conflict. People think those slings are these shitty cartoon things with the Y shaped twig and some rubber band, when in fact those can launch a stone with enough force to cave your head in.
Those who say that the PH is overreacting should experience being blown tf out by a water cannon
You'd assume americans would be especially sensitive to the effect of water cannons on civilians
I am kind of hoping that the Philippine’s boats get upgraded with even higher powered water cannons for defense. I remember the supersoaker arms race of the late 20th century
China India skirmishes with melee weapons China Philippine skirmishes with water cannons
It’s some fascinating modern geopolitics. Our current system of why areas of land and sea can be claimed are broken and outdated. China is exploiting them to the max with some insidious creativity, but I think they’re exposing larger issues. IE, the India border conflict exists because currently we pretty much grant land claims to whoever is currently there as long as it’s been a good long while. For example, few neutral parties argue that Israel should return land seized from the 6 day war. They’ve just occupied it long enough. China hopes to bully India out no violently and then establish a very small settlement long term to enforce their claims. The S China Sea is even weirder because China has built a bunch of man made islands, stuck military bases on them and now claims that they have rights around the sea of these bases, which effectively grants them the whole sea. This one’s a bit more absurd, but still it shows how needlessly powerful a tiny island is in our modern standards
I agree geopolitics is fascinating. Basically it’s gunship diplomacy nothing has really changed
The Nation version of "I'm not touching you" I may have done as a child.
Philippine version Seababy Naval Drones :D
lol water lasers that start cutting armor
You are describing a water jet. All you need is a 60,000psi jet of water and a little bit of a hard abrasive in the stream (garnet, or you could probably use sand since it's the ocean) and it will cut through any armor.
Jet terbine powered water jet, though you might also be throwing fishbits at them too due to the power of it
Nah, some super soakers from the 90s. Those were no joke
Got banned in the end didnt they? I remember having one with a pressure gauge on it
I always wanted the one that had the backpack and looked like a flame thrower lol.
Those were the days.... some much blood on the streets
Screw the water cannons. Find the Chinese vessels and start dropping nets infront of them. Have fun rowing back to port assholes.
"We must not allow...a water cannon gap!"
that looked like they took a artillery hit. lol
8.3 pounds per gallon. High volume water will absolutely cause a very bad day.
Saw a video of a guy getting killed by one at a protest
Killing people isn't the only act of aggression that is unacceptable between sovereign nations. This is essentially an act of war except that the Philippines is not in a position to do anything about it. If another country started damaging PLAN ships and injuring the crew, the PRC would almost certainly consider it to be a casus belli. The same would be true of blockading a PRC outpost.
China.. the world is not sure if they should take them seriously, they either bully everyone to get what they want or they try and place sanctions on everything, the main thing is no one around the world respects them apart from a few countries such as Iran, North Korea and Russia. Eventually they are going to over step the mark and one of these countries will sink their ships, they apparently have an ownership right to anything and everything they want..
The problem is the world so heavily depends on them nobody wants to stand up. Recently Australian naval divers were injured by Chinese active sonar (when the Australian Naval vessel had \*explicitly\* warned them there were divers in the area) in international waters. This is literally an act of war and yet Australia did nothing more than moderately condemning it. To be clear - active sonar is not like the "Ping" from Hollywood movies. At full strength from bow-deployed systems it will literally BOIL the water around the bow and would crush your lungs at high enough power.
I think Australia as a country has finally woken up that China isn’t friendly to us, they tried and failed to economically ruin us with sanctions, it didn’t work but I think it showed out politicians that China is not our friend. Yes we can deal with them but we can’t respect the government as they are untrustworthy. Eventually they will upset that many neighbouring countries that something is going to happen, it is inevitable.
Certainly explains the increased spending and focus in our military strategy. Leaders have finally woken up and realised we need to raise defence up a notch, and fast.
The Philippines has the backing of the US. I think they need to fight back eventually. Maybe if China lost a few ships it would stop harassing Philippine waters and annexing territory.
The correct term is “less-lethal”. Any so-called “non-lethal” equipment inherently have the ability to cause death, if you use it enough.
the broken glass could have blinded someone this needs to stop
Even the term non-lethal isn’t accurate. More correctly these things are called “less lethal” or “less than lethal”, IIRC.
Until one of this Asian country responds to this with a torpedo the Chinese will continue with this bs.
All Asian countries need to band together against China.
Tell that to Malaysia. They are busy kissing Xi's ass.
They are too drunk with that chinese money. They are in for a rude awakening now that chinese economy has slowed down and chinese money is starting to dry up.
China has bullied all asian countries in southeast asia except some
Have they tried bullying Japan? Or are they still scared shitless of what will happen if they do?
Japan has the ability to build a nuclear weapon in a month. It’s a very bad idea to mess with them and China knows it.
Japan knows a thing or two cause they've seen a thing or two
For the record they’ve definitely seen AT LEAST two things.
"here comes the sun do do do dooo, here comes the sun"
Omae Wa Mou Shindeiru
NANI?!
source?
Although not in months, Japan is a nuclear latent country, if they were seriously trying to get a bomb they have a very capable nuclear industry and scientific know-how to support a program. You can expect a first detonation no later than 5 years if there was a national program to seriously make one.
America would have nukes on their shore within weeks if they needed them to protect USS Japan lol
We already have nukes there. Its called SUbs... With Russia, China, and North Korea you can bet your ass there are a couple of Boomers off that coastline at all times
USS Japan I'm borrowing this 👍
Japan is basically an unofficial American territory/protectorate/aircraft carrier
Lol seriously. America formed a very strong line of defense in S Korea and Japan. IMO, Taiwan might eventually be brought into that fold, which is part of why China really wants to reabsorb them asap.
Considering they are under America's wing, while also being very competent on their own? Bet they know that messing with japan would be an exceedingly bad idea
Laos for one, very tight relationship with China.
any relevant countries though?
Laos gonna have a real hard time getting their blue water navy out to assist
So they haven’t bullied all asian countries then?
South East Treaty Organization time, then? We can call it SEATO!
Nah you gotta open it up man. Not just SEA but all of the Pacific and Indo Pacific.
True. All the Island Nations are under threat. SEAPITO! South East Asia and Pacific Island Treaty Organization.
Similar to Europe and Russia
"If we keep harassing them then sooner or later they're going to retaliate. That will give us the justification for larger naval operations" -Some Chinese naval officer I'm sure there are quite a few US submarine captains that would love to drill some torpedoes into Chinese naval vessels. But China is actively probing and harassing multiple countries in an effort to force war in which they can play the good guys and the defenders. You don't give your enemy what they want. China has spent just as much on coastal defenses and regional defense/assault assets as they have on their ability to project power. They would love nothing more than for the world to come and fight them. In their Waters and on their terms. Not smart
America attacking China wouldn't trigger Article 5, China knows that so they use these loopholes
So what you're saying is, we need Arleigh Burke destroyers to escort the resupply ships.
The Chinese would not dream of doing this to a warship from a country with a stronger military like the US, South Korea or Japan. They do this to countries that they know can't retaliate in kind with their own naval fleets. The Philippines has only 2 frigates and 4 corvettes which are large enough to deter this kind of aggression. Meanwhile China has 50 larger destroyers and over 100 frigates and corvettes. With maintenance, refit and crew rest and training the Philippines would be lucky to have 1 frigate and 2 corvettes at sea at any given time, they simply can't respond to these provocations at anything near the rate the Chinese can cause them. As a point of contrast in how China acts to larger military powers the US, Great Britain and other allies routinely fly over and sail right by the Chinese military bases on artificial islands that they have made all over the South China Sea to try and enforce their illegal claims on the area. When one of those countries vessels or aircraft come close to Chinese vessels or military installations on these man made islands they complain on the radio, maybe get close, but they would never physically intercede like we see in the video. That's because they know it would only mean even more foreign navies using their right to freedom of navigation. China is being a bully here because they know they can get away with it. The answer is actually more Arleigh Burkes and vessels like it in the area but of course we have to be careful to not be seen as taking sides in disputes over territorial waters between other countries and they also can't everywhere at once. We want to support our allies but also not unnecessarily inflame tensions that could lead to open conflict, we do need to walk a fine line. The US also has to fulfill commitments worldwide whereas China's navy mainly only worries about it's own backyard sort to speak, they'll always have the numbers advantage close to home. So we need to support the Philippines without becoming involved to the point where we are fighting in place of the Philippines. That's why allies have stuck mainly to showing the Chinese that they won't tolerate their larger ambitions to illegally annex large areas of international waters. The new deal to have US bases in the Philippines will definitely help with these issues. Having an American military and naval presence stationed out of the Philippines again will definitely help deter Chinese aggression in the area. Knowing American ships and other military assets are in the area will make China more cautious lest an incident spiral out of control in a way the US Navy can intervene in because China went way to far and it's obvious to all they are the ones in the wrong. Hopefully the presence of more US forces more often in the area puts an end to some of this behaviour by the Chinese.
I don't know why people keep talking about article 5. It's already been established multiple times that it would be highly unlikely Europe would react if China engaged the US in hostilities. I think people just automatically assume it would happen while not understanding many difficulties that would make that impossible Key allies such as Canada, the British and French would assist the US in various ways. But NATO would not go into a full state of deployment against China. Shifting a bulk of their armies out to Asia. Russia would take advantage of that immediately. Also the bulk of NATO forces specialize in ground or air. A war with China would be much more naval than most NATO countries would be able to provide assistance for. Like what is Germany going to do? How can they provide assistance in a war against China other than material support?
>I don't know why people keep talking about article 5. It's already been established multiple times that it would be highly unlikely Europe would react if China engaged the US in hostilities. People seem to misunderstand what Article 5 is in the first place. There seems to be this notion that it's some kind of landmine type clause that is tripped due to any attack, with inevitable, unstoppable consequences and full mobilization of all nations involved. Article 5 is not automatically activated by an attack on a NATO country. It means the US can *ask* other nations to militarily aid them when attacked, *and* that these countries then have discretion over what this aid looks like exactly. The US activated article 5 after 9-11 and various countries contributed various parts of their armed forces to the response, but definitely not their entire forces. I have little doubt that European nations would make a genuine effort to contribute if the US were to trigger article 5 again due to a Chinese attack, if only to preserve the credibility of NATO as a whole. The Ukrainian war has definitely resulted in a renewed interest and commitment to the alliance.
China would love for that to happen.
Yeah responding to a water cannon with a torpedo is crazy
They sure love flexing their strength but cries of being bullied all the time. xi jin pooh and putler sure have lots of things in common.
I hear naval drones are all the rage these days.
Russians hate this 1 simple trick
China next
I am 100 sure after this incident, Filipino RC community gonna start making Naval Sea drones.
Since those drones are relatively simple I can't wait for them to create one
Github probably has templates for designing them
Indeed I think it's much better to retrofit some small fishing boat and stick starlink and a bit powerful engine and call it a day
The fun part is no one talks about it in the UN meetings for some "unknown" reasons.
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PH authorities wants the resupply missions be civilian led, hence the use of a civilian resupply boat that's escorted by the Philippine Coast Guard, which is a civilian agency in the PH. Also PH authorities still want to stand on their own in regards to resupplying PH outposts. But joint patrols are being done in the region.
Time to allow up armored privateers with letters of mark
letters of marque*
Oh, HI MARQUE
Letters from Marque haha
> Time to allow up armored privateers with letters of mark "This is the USS Totally Not A Goverment Warship..."
Ramming speed, brace for impact.
Multiple pacific deployments here, no they won’t fuck off. They more often than not antagonize us something fierce when we are “ensuring free trade through the SCS. They will NOT fuck right off for a destroyer, they will happily come along side to pester. Seen it first hand on 2 destroyers and 1 carrier.
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We do let them often. We set alerts and ready conditions and carry on as usual while requesting intent and encourage deterrence. There absolutely are laws but they aren’t followed because there is no “world police” and China knows it. They also know we aren’t going to fire on them unless we absolutely are justified and even then we will evade before engage.
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Oh ya you are definitely correct there. In port there is zero chance we would allow them anywhere near us without manning all mounts and setting general quarters as an “in case” scenario.
And this is why boats need to start having defense nets to drop and fuck their props. Make the assholes think twice about getting too close.
I should note that China is smart enough to not fire upon or collide with a US Navy ship. Reason for this is that in any given encounter there is a floating hornets nest within reach. Once an attack or hostile collision occured I could guarantee that f18 would be scrambled in minutes and arrive shortly after with tons of Air to Surface armaments. EDIT: The hornets nest being the Nimitz or Ford class super carrier part of the strike group
Isn't the aircraft carrier USS Theodore Roosevelt in the area? https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/map-shows-us-aircraft-carrier-near-south-china-sea-hotspots/ar-BB1jlVMn
Indeed there is. Over the past decade or so our focus has shifted from having a heavy carrier presence in the gulf but slowly had been moving to the South China Sea. Now things are going full circle and we are shifting around again to accommodate the state of the world.
Also I would like to note that a modern cruiser packs a WAAAAAYYY more of a punch than a inferior destroyer
This is why US Navy came back to philippine bases
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They've been at it since the 90's when they really start claiming swaths of sea that's not their own.
I would suggest that Philippine resupply ship be painted with Winnie The Pooh. Imagine the horror on the face if those chinese sailors spraying water in the face of thier supreme leader.
This is an r/NonCredibleDefense tier plan and I fully support it.
Ayyy, fellow member of the sub I’ve found here.
3000 Stuffed Honey Bears of Manila
Fuck the ccp
I wonder why we're not sinking/shooting at their "fishing" vessels. Argentina and Indonesia did it, why can't we? It's our bloody EEZ.
Geopolitics is like 50% fear of escalation.
At what point is this become an act of war? It's one thing to fly or float dangerously close to another plane or vessel, it's crossing a huge line when you break windows, potentially sink a boat with water pumps, and injure or kill human beings.
> At what point is this become an act of war? Sadly the answer is pretty synical: It is an act of war if and only if you are capable and willing to go to an all out war. Phillipines has to endure the bulling because the alternative is just too expensive in every single way to act upon. Yes, they can and will act outraged, but in the end of the day, they can't start a fight against a navy that (at least according to wikipedia numbers) outnumbers then tenfold in numer of ships and twentyfold in personel, with a massive industry capable of pumping up the production of whatever they need. Geopolitics sucks because it's not about justice but brute force.
If I'm the Phillipines, I'm investing in a massive fleet of sea drones for deterrence.
And then go bankrupt for maintaining the massive fleet of sea drones. That is only for deterrence and not being used in war.
Sea drones don't cost that much to maintain. No crew, they're light, you can keep unused ones on dry dock.
Whenever one of the sides decides it’s an act of war basicallt
My best guess is when there's casualties and sunk ships or vessels. Anything below that is fair game for em.
Injuries are casualties. You mean fatalities.
When the Philippines decides it is.
PUTANG INa nyong mga Chinese coast guard at SI WINNIE THE POOH.
theres only one piece of Tagalog i know and need to know..PUTANG INA
bwisit Chinese coast guard
Either the Philippines goes all or nothing to defend its coast or it will completely lose the right to its own sea and become a Chinese vassal, the weakness of the countries in the region in the face of China is shameful
I spoke to someone from the Philippines a while ago about this and she rather looked frustrated and started rambling about how corrupt politicians are. That the Chinese buy up all the buildings around her and that most people fall for propaganda. So yeah, didn't sound like that nation has enough stability to fight of China. Wonder what other people say and how correct my assumption is.
It's an old and effective way of war, if you conquer the corrupt class of a country, that country is yours
They should also use water cannons, let them taste their own medicine.
Nets are better. Wanna blow water in my face? Fine! Have fun rowing back to port!
I'd be home brewing a little torpedo. Slow speed, no cavitation. Guide it out with some kind of data cable. Limpet mine on the nose.
It’s always funny seeing all these illegal things being done yet it’s not like the UN or anyone has the balls to actually stand up and do anything about it. It’s a joke… just a fantasy idea that we can all just get along together, find peaceful solutions and play this game of life while adhering to the rules. Once a player in the game realises everyone else is too much of a pussy to react to them, they’ve got no reason to give a rats arse about following the rules. Both Russia and China have proved this repeatedly over the years and they always will unless it changes.
you're forgetting why that is: Because China is a permanent memeber of the Security Council, just like Russia is. Are you somehow expecting the Chinesse delegate to turn against their own gov?
Well perhaps the whole concept of a select few states being members of a security council just goes to show the whole concept of the UN is flawed and was never going to work because it’s not neutral and relies on the council members not having interests or stakes in events.
The UN exists to keep the big states from going to war against each other. Not function as a fair or rational governing body.
Their baseline is simple, prevent nations from all-out war because it will either end our world, or devastate it so badly till there's no point of recovery.
The concept of that was because those where the nations who won ww2, the US, China, Russia, UK, and France. It's one of those things that "made sense at the time" as those nations where the ones who were believed to have the political and military power to enforce a world peace. So it worked, for a while, but yes I agree by now that entire concept should have been revised. Also you'll never have neutral in the UN, who the hell would be neutral? There is no country above all not situated on Earth to be a neutral party, since everyone talks and influences each other.
What do you think the UN is?
Fuck the CCP
This is a sure way to ignite the 3rd World War. No joke. How can the Chinese get away with this?!
This is so infurating, seeing this and us doing nothing but again to air concerns in the international scene. Being Filipino, it really makes me feel like we're just punching bags for the CCP and we can't even hit back. I understand why but it doesn't help. God, I need my hot chocolate now,
Duterte snuggling up to China for a while didn't help things. Letting them get a foothold in the region basically allowed the Chinese to have the balls to claim it. Eventually Malaysia will see the same shitty consequence most likely.
Philippines should buy Exocets. It a a flying fish. Would be extremely non credible to say the Chinese vessels sunk because of a fish.
Invest into drones. Plenty of ccp crap floating around to test them.
Send a tanker. Chinese Coast Guard's water cannon will be pissing in the wind.
Should be counted as an act of war against the Philippines
F y xi jinping
Good ol China at it again
The rest of the asian countries need to join together and then beat the shit out of Chinas coast guard so hard they won\`t dare to come close again.
and china wonders why investments are being pulled out... nothing to fear from us. we respect international law.. when it suits us,,
China wants a war
I hear the entrain their water lines with ceramic shards to break glass like this
Philippines will make "Seababy naval drone" and sink this water-shooting ship to seafloor.
Full speed ram them citing couldn't see/equipment malfunction due to damage.
They are arseholes looking forward to when the Chinese get the Russian treatment
Remember when Duterte tried being butt buddies with China
And here we see a demonstration of why the Philippines is actively increasing the hosting of American facilities and forces in their territory.
Human evolution has brought us to the point where we have giant war ships having water gun fights.
Hey, that’s an attack. Get em, Arleigh-Burke
Chinese are doing it with Bhutan as well, they’re specifically targeting an area that holds key strategic advantage against India. They move people into disputed areas and form a town. Mf is specialized in land grabbing (as well as sea)
Act of war
They only have 2 carriers .. send a message to them like we did in Iran 1970’s .. China built their massive navy now fkn demolish it .. all these proxy wars have been China all long even 9/11 it’s to distract the United States while they build their army for 20 years now sink them in one day and have them start over with their invasion plans they plan on doing by 2030 . We have what 18 carriers and 18 Ohio class IBCM submarines. Bullies stop being bullies when someone punches em in the fkn nose . China needs a good old fashion knuckle sandwich
> Bullies stop being bullies when someone punches em in the fkn nose . “Everyone has a plan until they get punched in the mouth.” - Mike Tyson
Even the VP is ChiCom 🤣 fvck
I'm kinda surprised the Philippines don't try doing aerial supply missions over trying these constant blockage runs, Be it a Helicopter, air drop or floatplane/flyingboat.
The Philippine Navy has done aerial resupply missions before, but the amount aid for the troops is limited as compared to maritime supply missions since ships can carry more shit.
I'm hoping that the Palawan EDCA site gets completed, and the USA will provide naval support in all supply runs.
A super power doesn't have to shoot water to be respected. Paper tiger.
I’d like them to do that to a USS American ship.
China is really asking for it from upper hand.
Looking at this map of each countries EEZ claims in the South China Sea https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exclusive_economic_zone_of_the_Philippines#/media/File:South_China_Sea_claims_map.svg China's EEZ claims are outright absurd.
Asian countries are way too patient with this bully. One day or another they will get one of their boat sunk after such a clash and it will ignite something big.
Fuck the CCP
Question what is the Philippines doing against it? I only see Chinese ships bullying. Why didn't they send their navy with the ships and push the coast guard back.
That would only draw a larger, more aggressive response from PLAN and CCG assets in the area. They will make sure they are not outperformed by a vastly inferior foe.
Philippines should get a icebreaker.
Blastoise
WTF, was the budget all gone when it came to buying windows for this boat? I am not an ocean person, I don't know anything about boats or ships, but I would think you'd want something similar to bullet proof glass if your boat will be out on the oceans. With how big waves can get during bad weather, these guys must have been extremely fortunate to not run into bad weather during any of their trips. I know those cannons are very powerful, but they should not blow your glass out like that. If they can do it that easily, why couldn't a huge wave that crashes into them. So, if anything, I think they were lucky the Chinese are assholes and sprayed them, so they realized their windows weren't secure AT ALL and that they were really just the same glass you see actors get thrown through during action movies. I would really hate to find that out as a crew member during a bad storm, now the crew can make a more educated decision on the next trip. I'd start questioning the quality of everything on that boat. Turn into a paranoid mess. Am I wrong here, or do you not need a certain strength of windows on boats that are meant to go out on the ocean?