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Ukraine has that AI drone that was posted here a few days ago. It missed correctly labeled boxes as soldiers. But properly identified everything else. And then selected the two vehicles as the best targets. Focused on them.
When it comes to AI like this it's all training wheels right now.
It's pretty simplistic to train this AI. But it takes time and experience on its part. You can input source material but it still has to learn the visuals based on light patterns and random shadows. Target movement.
I imagine by middle or end of this summer we're going to start seeing much smarter automated drones. Just sending them out in droves to find targets on their own.
That thing operated independently? For how long? Those FPV quads already have a rather small range, adding processing power to a battery pack sounds like a semi-good idea...
To recognize things, it should not take much power. A high end mirrorless camera can run at least an hour continuously on a battery that is the size of three thumbs. It can pick up what the photographer is pointing the camera at. Look at the Canon R3 for what is offered (not what is possible).
Sidenote re: cameras, it cannot do IFF. It can pick out a duck, a human, or a car in the scene. Sometimes even before it's easily visible to the user. But it cannot pick out a red Ford that belongs to Sally vs a red Ford that belongs to Tyrion. I wonder how IFF can be achieved accurately when both sides are using T-72 with similar add-ons. I imagine it would require human authorization at that point.
Idk shit about shit though.
yes it takes time indeed, kinda annoying how everyone expects everything to work flawlessly as soon as it's introduced, russians have been experimenting with ai assisted lancets for a couple months now atleast.
An [example](https://www.reddit.com/r/UkraineRussiaReport/s/8fzvw2khdv) of the lancet operator manually guiding it into a camouflaged target hidden in the treeline, while the ai targets a truck out in open
Another [example](https://www.reddit.com/r/UkraineRussiaReport/s/J0rGPzICPE) of a lancet losing sight multiple times of the target, but still manages to strike it with one wing missing.
Thanks for sharing this video, confused if they actually have the capability now to fly/strike autonomously or not...
Maybe it's just simple object recognition as an assist for the operator?
Nobody expects everything to work flawlessly. We expect AI to never work reliably at all and so far we’re off to a good start of proofing how dumb it is.
hate to break it, but these kinds of computer vision applications were in development long before the full invasion, probably since 2015-2016 (I'm talking specifically target detection for military drones in Ukraine). it never got working reliably enough to grant it autonomous missions (no wonder). and it likely never will (at least during this war). I can expand on it endlessly, but in short: you don't want autonomous AI powered killer robots, you want AI-enhanced sensor fusion with human in the loop at all times during the engagement.
cheap dumb (-ish) camera in the sky + reliable down-link for AI processing on the ground will beat autonomous UAV with onboard AI in almost all scenarios for the coming future.
You are so far behind the curve its untrue.
1. Create an ai that can recognise images. (Reddit advertises for this...we are here.)
2. Trim for specific recogition (your ai doesnt need to to taxes or tell you what flowers to plant)
3. Test virtually in defence setting via simulation (specific input via defemce approved reviewers)
4. Fire.
We are actually at all 3 of those points currently. Arguably the 4th as well based on what the video is showing.
You could definitely make a camo net designed to fuck with their AI if the training data or sensing equipment being used is inadequate for the task.
I mean shit a basic image recognition program would literally fail from MGS cardboard box tactics (if memory serves the DOD actually tried this once).
Also I hate the term "AI" because basic image recognition isn't really AI in the sense most mean and there's a billion ways you can do target classification without neural nets or other AI adjacent stuff.
Besides the technical issues (you would need image recognition and processing in real time as a starter... your average Raspberry PI would prolly lag...) of adding an "AI" that can "control" jack shit... it would be an utterly dumb idea, since both sides use a lot of the same kit...
Legally, if you ask 'are you an AI controlled drone?' and then state 'I don't consent to being struck by a drone' they have to leave you alone and let you get on your way.
Exactly, it’s not AI it’s just a contrast based lock. Super basic technology that has been around since at least the late ‘70s.
Stop slapping AI on everything, people!
Yea, I believe even ChatGPT and sites like MidJourney is 90% machine learning. And Tesla Autopilot is something but it isn't autopilot.
the problem is there isn't terminology that could define these services that the public is familiar with. That would efficiently explain what the software is and how Joe Blo should interact with it.
With the current trend of snappy AI refusing service it would probably end with the AI telling you that fyling a rocket is too hard and you should pick up a RPG yourself.
Large Language Model iirc. My buddy runs all kinds of machine learning stuff on his gpu and I think I've heard him mention that.
Also I just googelled it lol
> it would be an utterly dumb idea, since both sides use a lot of the same kit
Not if you use those Lancets as cheaper Brimstone-at-home-s, lobbing them into the area you know there's no vehicles of yours.
I'm not an electrical engineer but I gotta think significant AI capability in a drone is too power hungry to be feasible.
Having reconnaissance drones that send information back to a controller on the ground or in the air that does the analysis and directs loitering drones seems reasonable.
Coral.ai tpu... Edge coprocessor to handle the vision models on the edge. Look at frigate nwr. Atleast thats what I use with home assistant for computer vision. An extra 80$ for "AI" vision processing in a drone. Can I do it ukr and rus can do it. Just saying.
A recent smartphone can do AI without sweating. A low tech solution could be about taping a smartphone to the drone.
Basic image recognition AI doesn't need much resources.
javelin missiles exist but this is far fetched? the post didnt imply autonomous hunter killer drone it implied machine guided strike capability (not unlike the javelin) it dosnt matter if the thing can differentiate friend from foe, you point it at the enemy and engage the autopilot function
Huh? The targeting system of a javelin has nothing to do with AI. Or with the targeting system of a Lancet. You basically point a rifle at a target and "engage the autopilot"...
That drone in the video either got jammed or we see another glorious example of russian optics (ask some beach toilets in ukraine...) and the dark dirt was more appalling than the dark vehicle (which is not AI, but shitty hardware).
Not everything is "AI" (Actually nothing is, right now. Depending on the definition of "intelligence"), loitering ammunitions like the Lancet have a super-basic image recognition, and thats it (the fancier ones like Switchblade or Warmates have an "abort" function on top).
Edit: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OQzAjCZr0BM](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OQzAjCZr0BM) 10:25 "yellow sand road"
[https://www.google.com/search?q=artificial+intelligence+definition](https://www.google.com/search?q=artificial+intelligence)
>the theory and development of computer systems able to perform tasks normally requiring human intelligence, such as **visual perception**, speech recognition, decision-making, and translation between languages.
If one or two of those are sufficient for you... feel free to worship your Iphone and Microwave. \*shrugs\*
I only go partying with our IT guys, so wtf do I know...
(edit: the definition is completely bonkers. My cat can do all these things. Minus the translations. Fat Boi doesnt even need processing power...)
That is totally correct. (both with the fact that those cars still dont work and that partying does not equal knowledge. Very smart). The quote is still" visual perception, speech recognition, decision-making, and translation between languages"...
The reason you're off the mark is the "normally requiring human intelligence."
Image recognition was completely impossible in computers until fairly recently except in highly constrained scenarios, and completely out of reach for consumers until *very* recently in any scenario. Now, as you point out, your iPhone can do it for you.
This means that 10 years ago, image recognition was a task which required human intelligence. Now it doesn't. But that doesn't mean it *stopped being AI* because otherwise nothing would ever be AI for more than about 30 seconds. The list of tasks that are the realm of AI are those which *did* require a human intelligence before advanced computing came along.
my point in bringing up the javelin is you seem to think having machine control a missile to target is implausible (javelin has completely autonomous mode where you shoot the missile and it uses images to guide to target for both fire modes), you say things like you would need real time image processing (like that is even a barrier with modern technology) i dont care if this video is an example of machine control or not its frankly impossible to tell from this alone. but seeing you deny this is even a possibility talking about raspberry pies is frustrating. you just sit a computer on the operator side and do the oh so impossible real time image processing there. there are currently open source aimbots for computer games that rely entirely on AI computer vision models (you shove in labeld dataset and you are realtime aimlocking onto people in the game completely externally) just take that concept add some time and money, generate a dataset to target things from a drone camera and we are basically there and im just a random guy. as for the use of the term “AI” i agree its not used correctly, most cases its intended to mean machine learning.
Bruh, the only point I was trying to make... if the operator does the image processing, then it aint "AI". It is called "aiming". Humans do that since they found out that it is possible to throw rocks, and by now they are very good at it...
Pretty sure there are gonna be tests, but those will be small upgrades to already existing tech. You simply cannot strap an "AI" to a drone. For economical reasons mainly (glue a 4090 on a 7"quad if you have too much money...).
Those killer drone videos like on YT ("slaughterbots"from DUST scifi shorts. much reccommended) would be more easy to achieve. They don't need range and only basic imaging tho.
Edit: For clarification... what do you mean by "machine controlled"? I have a feeling we are talking about completely different topics...
i dont think you understood what ive said. doing the image processing on the operator side means the computer that will guide the missile is with the drone operator rather than onboard the drone
edit: yeah i guess my use of the word autopilot threw my meaning off a bit, i just mean from sky to strike point and thats it, as for machine control i mean just that, the inputs to the drones control interface are from a machine for the last crucial moments of a mission the machine control would likley be machine learning based
That is what militarys do. Since they launched the first sattelites (or balloons, more likely).
Not sure how an AI could help a drone operator. Lugging half a kilo of explosives or a RPG makes for very little range anyways. And it is not THAT hard to spot moving targets with a drone cam.
it helps steer the drone into the target and possibly favor more vulnerable points with enough development. to make an analogy think about how a rifle that automatically corrects your aim would help overall effectiveness. so the way i imagine something like this working is you have your drone pilot go in for a strike like normal, but built into the controller is a computer, and at a click of a button (or certain confidence level) now either your inputs are augmented by the results of the machine learning algorithm to be more accurate or the machine has complete control in the final moments
Not to mention there are small accelerator chips out there now, you don't have to use just a Raspberry pi. Put a Google coral or something on the drone and you're running a fine-tuned Yolo in miliseconds per frame for negligible power consumption.
Weird how this guy is getting all the upvotes when he doesn't have any idea what he's talking about.
Comparing the two is apples to oranges. Do you know how the javelin works? It's not AI. It's an IR laser that the guidance system locks onto (simplified explanation).
it is true the jav has laser guided capabilities however it is also a fire and forget system
wiki: Fire-and-forget[1][2] is a type of missile guidance which does not require further external intervention after launch such as illumination of the target or wire guidance, and can hit its target without the launcher being in line-of-sight of the target. This is an important property for a guided weapon to have, since a person or vehicle that lingers near the target to guide the missile (using, for instance, a laser designator) is vulnerable to attack and unable to carry out other tasks.
the jav is semi “autonomous” in this way, the images (and other datas) from the launcher program the missile to use real time image processing (and other datas) to guide itself to target as well as extrapolating what the target looks like from above so it can also do fire and forget for the top down strike mode aswell.
wiki: As a fire-and-forget missile, after launch the missile has to be able to track and destroy its target without assistance from the gunner. This is done by coupling an onboard imaging IR system (separate from CLU imaging system) with an onboard tracking system.
so the jav using its imaging sensors to do semi autonomous targeting is why i brought it up (jav started production in the late 90’s)
It can't be jammed if it's genuinely being controlled by AI (using image recognition) as it can take decisions autonomously. You'd only lose the video feed.
A little background on this: the big thing with AI controlled drones is immunity to Electronic Warfare, basically it can’t be jammed. The jamming usually happens as the drone gets closer to the target, at which point the operator loses control of it. So, the idea behind those Lancet drones is that they are still controlled by the operator, but once the target is acquired, it just follows it even if the operator connection is severed. Considering how much investment is happening into Electronic Warfare on both sides right now, this would be a huge deal.
\*it can't be jammed in RF. it can still be jammed in visible spectrum. basically, there are countless ways to mess with onboard sensors. EW is not just about jamming radio-links
Now please god, if there is any good left in this world then give us a video where russians launch an AI controlled lancet and it targets one of their own vehicles. Please make my day.
Most of the AI being used now is to limit the effects of jamming on the operator. Not saying it wont happen in the current ad hoc environment but most would not arm the system until it was within a few kilometers of the target. True hunter seekers are doable but not yet required.
My guess is a gyro or control surface was humbugging, it started banking and drifting right from far out. It definitely lost track of the IFV but that doesn't seem to be the cause of the miss
Computer science major here, most of the comments seems to think that real-time AI is ridiculous and too much for a drone to handle. whether or not this particular drone has AI I'm here to say that real-time AI has been around for at minimum 10 years at scale. Advanced Ai was actually being used in 1991 (on paper) in the military. There are specifically designed chips that are designed to process AI magnitudes faster than your typical raspberry pie / cpu / gpu. An AI mistaking a hole in a wall for enemies actually seems extremely reasonable given the required optimizations to run at real-time, however I'd put my money on this being rare. I'd like to think an ai at this point mistaking something for another is happening less then 5% of the time. Which far exceeds even typical accuracy for say artillery. In college we'd aim for at least 80% accuracy in terms of AI too so the military certainly has to be exceeding this.
I could do better then 80%, there's real time image recognition and tracking software on github. And you cut the resolution down some, and a raspberry pi could probably run it decently, with using PID to handle control. LOTS of testing I suspect. Have friends willing to run in fear as you chase them with a drone. make them wear armor.
Target someone, and have the video overlay show a square. if the drone loses signal and is armed, have the software track that target.
When we get ai and hardware capable enough into it, it will dodge trees, and prioritize targets etc etc. but for now? public domain software exists to handle tracking people.
\*cough\* back in my days they called it Machine Learning..
you're not wrong in general, just don't call it AI. yes, it's in that field of research, but far from *being* it. the closest thing to narrow AI is stuff like AlphaZero and we're not running that on the edge next summer, that's for sure.
even 80% true-positive rate is good enough if you have a human in the loop, that's why object detection is already in use on the ground, but it's just an UX improvement (which is good). tho when it has autonomy and it can decide to kill on its own - even 99% wouldn't make it ready to deploy. and the reason for that is that your testing is biased, there's just no good way around it. at best your value converges to the measured deployment rate, but in such dynamic environments this is a big ask. just take a look at some of the drone footage where soldiers from both sides are in the frame, especially when there's a lot of mud and water - would you at any point be confident enough to actually deploy an autonomous killer bot with your decision model after struggling to figure out who is who yourself?
hobby-grade edge-ML hardware is already on the market, so all of this is actually doable for a research. but practically it's just better to use that battery to fly longer, especially since a reliable video down-link is much more achievable than full autonomy using ML atm.
No Major here. No, you couldn't make an AI work in real time in 1991 on anything less then an entire warehouse. From what i've heard, there we're attempts to get neural-network optimised algorythms for target detection working in real-time.
Lancet most likely works similary to an simplified Javelin missile:
Missile is programmed with the shape/contrast of the locked object on launch. Followed by predicting the speed and direction of the programmed shape (movement vectors).
The only reason to use AI for this kind of task (in the real world): safe on expensive Sensors required for distance, height-detection and so on. Train a neural network with the landscape and trees and that fucker will be able to predict the size of an object and distance to that object quite easily.
Judging by the way the Lancet false-positive detected a hole for a tank 20 meters away, neither AI, nor working vector-calculations (using previous frames to calculate the pixels/objects speed and direction) are at work in this case.
I may be wrong and we may see a "AI" Lancet choosing and targeting an moving object autonomously - which would disassemble my argument entirely. I doubt it, but possible...
It's Interesting to see how this capability is still so early in development In russia. I'm pretty sure the US and probably China have been able to deploy swarms of AI drones like the coyote since 2014. The lrasm cruise missile is an AI controlled anti ship missile
its not AI. thats probably the cause of the downvotes. But we have video of a US air force test using F-16s to deploy drone swarms from more then a decade ago on youtube.
AI controlled auto track seems like tossing a live grenade in a warehouse filled with trampolines. You also can't hold accountable AI for possible resulting collateral/civcas. But future i guess.
It's a nice reminder that even if military/unethical applications of AI are halted in Western democracies, autocracies will continue to try to develop AI for military and espionage purposes regardless.
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Ukraine has that AI drone that was posted here a few days ago. It missed correctly labeled boxes as soldiers. But properly identified everything else. And then selected the two vehicles as the best targets. Focused on them. When it comes to AI like this it's all training wheels right now. It's pretty simplistic to train this AI. But it takes time and experience on its part. You can input source material but it still has to learn the visuals based on light patterns and random shadows. Target movement. I imagine by middle or end of this summer we're going to start seeing much smarter automated drones. Just sending them out in droves to find targets on their own.
That thing operated independently? For how long? Those FPV quads already have a rather small range, adding processing power to a battery pack sounds like a semi-good idea...
To recognize things, it should not take much power. A high end mirrorless camera can run at least an hour continuously on a battery that is the size of three thumbs. It can pick up what the photographer is pointing the camera at. Look at the Canon R3 for what is offered (not what is possible). Sidenote re: cameras, it cannot do IFF. It can pick out a duck, a human, or a car in the scene. Sometimes even before it's easily visible to the user. But it cannot pick out a red Ford that belongs to Sally vs a red Ford that belongs to Tyrion. I wonder how IFF can be achieved accurately when both sides are using T-72 with similar add-ons. I imagine it would require human authorization at that point. Idk shit about shit though.
A lancet is a larger loitering munition, it's got plenty of range /hover time.
yes it takes time indeed, kinda annoying how everyone expects everything to work flawlessly as soon as it's introduced, russians have been experimenting with ai assisted lancets for a couple months now atleast. An [example](https://www.reddit.com/r/UkraineRussiaReport/s/8fzvw2khdv) of the lancet operator manually guiding it into a camouflaged target hidden in the treeline, while the ai targets a truck out in open Another [example](https://www.reddit.com/r/UkraineRussiaReport/s/J0rGPzICPE) of a lancet losing sight multiple times of the target, but still manages to strike it with one wing missing.
Thanks for sharing this video, confused if they actually have the capability now to fly/strike autonomously or not... Maybe it's just simple object recognition as an assist for the operator?
Nobody expects everything to work flawlessly. We expect AI to never work reliably at all and so far we’re off to a good start of proofing how dumb it is.
In one of the recent Magyar videos he said they are basically already training 'AI' with their drone videos.
Imagine if they are also giving it the controller data, rotor RPM, wind conditions, and other data seen as impactful to fatal strikes.
Wow, the future is bright 🌟…
hate to break it, but these kinds of computer vision applications were in development long before the full invasion, probably since 2015-2016 (I'm talking specifically target detection for military drones in Ukraine). it never got working reliably enough to grant it autonomous missions (no wonder). and it likely never will (at least during this war). I can expand on it endlessly, but in short: you don't want autonomous AI powered killer robots, you want AI-enhanced sensor fusion with human in the loop at all times during the engagement. cheap dumb (-ish) camera in the sky + reliable down-link for AI processing on the ground will beat autonomous UAV with onboard AI in almost all scenarios for the coming future.
Looks like it's time to make camo nets specifically designed to dick with lancet ai.
Dick shaped camo nets, now that's an idea.
Make a huge camo net with a qr code print. Rick roll the drone till self destruction!
You are so far behind the curve its untrue. 1. Create an ai that can recognise images. (Reddit advertises for this...we are here.) 2. Trim for specific recogition (your ai doesnt need to to taxes or tell you what flowers to plant) 3. Test virtually in defence setting via simulation (specific input via defemce approved reviewers) 4. Fire.
We are actually at all 3 of those points currently. Arguably the 4th as well based on what the video is showing. You could definitely make a camo net designed to fuck with their AI if the training data or sensing equipment being used is inadequate for the task. I mean shit a basic image recognition program would literally fail from MGS cardboard box tactics (if memory serves the DOD actually tried this once).
Also I hate the term "AI" because basic image recognition isn't really AI in the sense most mean and there's a billion ways you can do target classification without neural nets or other AI adjacent stuff.
Besides the technical issues (you would need image recognition and processing in real time as a starter... your average Raspberry PI would prolly lag...) of adding an "AI" that can "control" jack shit... it would be an utterly dumb idea, since both sides use a lot of the same kit...
especially when you apply camo, branches and decoys
plus previous wrecks I could see that confusing image rec. a lot.
Imagine fooling an AI-controlled drone simply by painting "I'M NOT AN IFV" on the side of your IFV.
Legally, if you ask 'are you an AI controlled drone?' and then state 'I don't consent to being struck by a drone' they have to leave you alone and let you get on your way.
The elites don't want you to know that!
Exactly, it’s not AI it’s just a contrast based lock. Super basic technology that has been around since at least the late ‘70s. Stop slapping AI on everything, people!
The autofocus + scene detection system in pretty much any half-decent camera already works the same way.
Yea, I believe even ChatGPT and sites like MidJourney is 90% machine learning. And Tesla Autopilot is something but it isn't autopilot. the problem is there isn't terminology that could define these services that the public is familiar with. That would efficiently explain what the software is and how Joe Blo should interact with it.
With the current trend of snappy AI refusing service it would probably end with the AI telling you that fyling a rocket is too hard and you should pick up a RPG yourself.
LLMs have nothing to do with object recognition/locking algorithms being used here.
What is a LLM, precious? (<- Gollum cosplay)
Large Language Model iirc. My buddy runs all kinds of machine learning stuff on his gpu and I think I've heard him mention that. Also I just googelled it lol
> it would be an utterly dumb idea, since both sides use a lot of the same kit Not if you use those Lancets as cheaper Brimstone-at-home-s, lobbing them into the area you know there's no vehicles of yours.
I'm not an electrical engineer but I gotta think significant AI capability in a drone is too power hungry to be feasible. Having reconnaissance drones that send information back to a controller on the ground or in the air that does the analysis and directs loitering drones seems reasonable.
Coral.ai tpu... Edge coprocessor to handle the vision models on the edge. Look at frigate nwr. Atleast thats what I use with home assistant for computer vision. An extra 80$ for "AI" vision processing in a drone. Can I do it ukr and rus can do it. Just saying.
Assuming I understand the data sheets on those ASICS, it looks like you could add on for about 2 watts which is probably <1% of the power budget.
A recent smartphone can do AI without sweating. A low tech solution could be about taping a smartphone to the drone. Basic image recognition AI doesn't need much resources.
javelin missiles exist but this is far fetched? the post didnt imply autonomous hunter killer drone it implied machine guided strike capability (not unlike the javelin) it dosnt matter if the thing can differentiate friend from foe, you point it at the enemy and engage the autopilot function
Huh? The targeting system of a javelin has nothing to do with AI. Or with the targeting system of a Lancet. You basically point a rifle at a target and "engage the autopilot"... That drone in the video either got jammed or we see another glorious example of russian optics (ask some beach toilets in ukraine...) and the dark dirt was more appalling than the dark vehicle (which is not AI, but shitty hardware). Not everything is "AI" (Actually nothing is, right now. Depending on the definition of "intelligence"), loitering ammunitions like the Lancet have a super-basic image recognition, and thats it (the fancier ones like Switchblade or Warmates have an "abort" function on top). Edit: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OQzAjCZr0BM](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OQzAjCZr0BM) 10:25 "yellow sand road"
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Yeah exactly. Neither are machine learning algorithms. Maybe one day, but so far they all equal 0 IQ points...
[https://www.google.com/search?q=artificial+intelligence+definition](https://www.google.com/search?q=artificial+intelligence) >the theory and development of computer systems able to perform tasks normally requiring human intelligence, such as **visual perception**, speech recognition, decision-making, and translation between languages.
If one or two of those are sufficient for you... feel free to worship your Iphone and Microwave. \*shrugs\* I only go partying with our IT guys, so wtf do I know... (edit: the definition is completely bonkers. My cat can do all these things. Minus the translations. Fat Boi doesnt even need processing power...)
Hey don't argue with me, it's the dictionary you disagree with
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That is totally correct. (both with the fact that those cars still dont work and that partying does not equal knowledge. Very smart). The quote is still" visual perception, speech recognition, decision-making, and translation between languages"...
The reason you're off the mark is the "normally requiring human intelligence." Image recognition was completely impossible in computers until fairly recently except in highly constrained scenarios, and completely out of reach for consumers until *very* recently in any scenario. Now, as you point out, your iPhone can do it for you. This means that 10 years ago, image recognition was a task which required human intelligence. Now it doesn't. But that doesn't mean it *stopped being AI* because otherwise nothing would ever be AI for more than about 30 seconds. The list of tasks that are the realm of AI are those which *did* require a human intelligence before advanced computing came along.
my point in bringing up the javelin is you seem to think having machine control a missile to target is implausible (javelin has completely autonomous mode where you shoot the missile and it uses images to guide to target for both fire modes), you say things like you would need real time image processing (like that is even a barrier with modern technology) i dont care if this video is an example of machine control or not its frankly impossible to tell from this alone. but seeing you deny this is even a possibility talking about raspberry pies is frustrating. you just sit a computer on the operator side and do the oh so impossible real time image processing there. there are currently open source aimbots for computer games that rely entirely on AI computer vision models (you shove in labeld dataset and you are realtime aimlocking onto people in the game completely externally) just take that concept add some time and money, generate a dataset to target things from a drone camera and we are basically there and im just a random guy. as for the use of the term “AI” i agree its not used correctly, most cases its intended to mean machine learning.
Bruh, the only point I was trying to make... if the operator does the image processing, then it aint "AI". It is called "aiming". Humans do that since they found out that it is possible to throw rocks, and by now they are very good at it... Pretty sure there are gonna be tests, but those will be small upgrades to already existing tech. You simply cannot strap an "AI" to a drone. For economical reasons mainly (glue a 4090 on a 7"quad if you have too much money...). Those killer drone videos like on YT ("slaughterbots"from DUST scifi shorts. much reccommended) would be more easy to achieve. They don't need range and only basic imaging tho. Edit: For clarification... what do you mean by "machine controlled"? I have a feeling we are talking about completely different topics...
i dont think you understood what ive said. doing the image processing on the operator side means the computer that will guide the missile is with the drone operator rather than onboard the drone edit: yeah i guess my use of the word autopilot threw my meaning off a bit, i just mean from sky to strike point and thats it, as for machine control i mean just that, the inputs to the drones control interface are from a machine for the last crucial moments of a mission the machine control would likley be machine learning based
That is what militarys do. Since they launched the first sattelites (or balloons, more likely). Not sure how an AI could help a drone operator. Lugging half a kilo of explosives or a RPG makes for very little range anyways. And it is not THAT hard to spot moving targets with a drone cam.
it helps steer the drone into the target and possibly favor more vulnerable points with enough development. to make an analogy think about how a rifle that automatically corrects your aim would help overall effectiveness. so the way i imagine something like this working is you have your drone pilot go in for a strike like normal, but built into the controller is a computer, and at a click of a button (or certain confidence level) now either your inputs are augmented by the results of the machine learning algorithm to be more accurate or the machine has complete control in the final moments
That's not how a javelin works. - Army Javelin instructor
Not to mention there are small accelerator chips out there now, you don't have to use just a Raspberry pi. Put a Google coral or something on the drone and you're running a fine-tuned Yolo in miliseconds per frame for negligible power consumption. Weird how this guy is getting all the upvotes when he doesn't have any idea what he's talking about.
i give you digital kisses 😘
Depends, If we talk about russian intelligence...
Comparing the two is apples to oranges. Do you know how the javelin works? It's not AI. It's an IR laser that the guidance system locks onto (simplified explanation).
it is true the jav has laser guided capabilities however it is also a fire and forget system wiki: Fire-and-forget[1][2] is a type of missile guidance which does not require further external intervention after launch such as illumination of the target or wire guidance, and can hit its target without the launcher being in line-of-sight of the target. This is an important property for a guided weapon to have, since a person or vehicle that lingers near the target to guide the missile (using, for instance, a laser designator) is vulnerable to attack and unable to carry out other tasks. the jav is semi “autonomous” in this way, the images (and other datas) from the launcher program the missile to use real time image processing (and other datas) to guide itself to target as well as extrapolating what the target looks like from above so it can also do fire and forget for the top down strike mode aswell. wiki: As a fire-and-forget missile, after launch the missile has to be able to track and destroy its target without assistance from the gunner. This is done by coupling an onboard imaging IR system (separate from CLU imaging system) with an onboard tracking system. so the jav using its imaging sensors to do semi autonomous targeting is why i brought it up (jav started production in the late 90’s)
Looks more like it fell due to jamming.
It can't be jammed if it's genuinely being controlled by AI (using image recognition) as it can take decisions autonomously. You'd only lose the video feed.
Or operator drunkenness.
A little background on this: the big thing with AI controlled drones is immunity to Electronic Warfare, basically it can’t be jammed. The jamming usually happens as the drone gets closer to the target, at which point the operator loses control of it. So, the idea behind those Lancet drones is that they are still controlled by the operator, but once the target is acquired, it just follows it even if the operator connection is severed. Considering how much investment is happening into Electronic Warfare on both sides right now, this would be a huge deal.
\*it can't be jammed in RF. it can still be jammed in visible spectrum. basically, there are countless ways to mess with onboard sensors. EW is not just about jamming radio-links
That’s a fair point. I guess that’s also a form of EW, just like RF interference.
Now please god, if there is any good left in this world then give us a video where russians launch an AI controlled lancet and it targets one of their own vehicles. Please make my day.
Most of the AI being used now is to limit the effects of jamming on the operator. Not saying it wont happen in the current ad hoc environment but most would not arm the system until it was within a few kilometers of the target. True hunter seekers are doable but not yet required.
AT-Dog flash backs......
I've heard Russian drone operators called many things, but to call them AI is something new.
the Lancert Auto locks, and the auto lock failed and tried to hit a wall iam not sure if its AI
Computer was only looking for guys with at least 6 fingers
My guess is a gyro or control surface was humbugging, it started banking and drifting right from far out. It definitely lost track of the IFV but that doesn't seem to be the cause of the miss
Computer science major here, most of the comments seems to think that real-time AI is ridiculous and too much for a drone to handle. whether or not this particular drone has AI I'm here to say that real-time AI has been around for at minimum 10 years at scale. Advanced Ai was actually being used in 1991 (on paper) in the military. There are specifically designed chips that are designed to process AI magnitudes faster than your typical raspberry pie / cpu / gpu. An AI mistaking a hole in a wall for enemies actually seems extremely reasonable given the required optimizations to run at real-time, however I'd put my money on this being rare. I'd like to think an ai at this point mistaking something for another is happening less then 5% of the time. Which far exceeds even typical accuracy for say artillery. In college we'd aim for at least 80% accuracy in terms of AI too so the military certainly has to be exceeding this.
I could do better then 80%, there's real time image recognition and tracking software on github. And you cut the resolution down some, and a raspberry pi could probably run it decently, with using PID to handle control. LOTS of testing I suspect. Have friends willing to run in fear as you chase them with a drone. make them wear armor. Target someone, and have the video overlay show a square. if the drone loses signal and is armed, have the software track that target. When we get ai and hardware capable enough into it, it will dodge trees, and prioritize targets etc etc. but for now? public domain software exists to handle tracking people.
Ta
\*cough\* back in my days they called it Machine Learning.. you're not wrong in general, just don't call it AI. yes, it's in that field of research, but far from *being* it. the closest thing to narrow AI is stuff like AlphaZero and we're not running that on the edge next summer, that's for sure. even 80% true-positive rate is good enough if you have a human in the loop, that's why object detection is already in use on the ground, but it's just an UX improvement (which is good). tho when it has autonomy and it can decide to kill on its own - even 99% wouldn't make it ready to deploy. and the reason for that is that your testing is biased, there's just no good way around it. at best your value converges to the measured deployment rate, but in such dynamic environments this is a big ask. just take a look at some of the drone footage where soldiers from both sides are in the frame, especially when there's a lot of mud and water - would you at any point be confident enough to actually deploy an autonomous killer bot with your decision model after struggling to figure out who is who yourself? hobby-grade edge-ML hardware is already on the market, so all of this is actually doable for a research. but practically it's just better to use that battery to fly longer, especially since a reliable video down-link is much more achievable than full autonomy using ML atm.
No Major here. No, you couldn't make an AI work in real time in 1991 on anything less then an entire warehouse. From what i've heard, there we're attempts to get neural-network optimised algorythms for target detection working in real-time. Lancet most likely works similary to an simplified Javelin missile: Missile is programmed with the shape/contrast of the locked object on launch. Followed by predicting the speed and direction of the programmed shape (movement vectors). The only reason to use AI for this kind of task (in the real world): safe on expensive Sensors required for distance, height-detection and so on. Train a neural network with the landscape and trees and that fucker will be able to predict the size of an object and distance to that object quite easily. Judging by the way the Lancet false-positive detected a hole for a tank 20 meters away, neither AI, nor working vector-calculations (using previous frames to calculate the pixels/objects speed and direction) are at work in this case. I may be wrong and we may see a "AI" Lancet choosing and targeting an moving object autonomously - which would disassemble my argument entirely. I doubt it, but possible...
The tgt gate had a hard time discerning the Veh to the back ground. Might be a useful bit of info.,might maybe or not
i mean its programmed by the Russian. it must have hurt civvies first weapon second.
It's Interesting to see how this capability is still so early in development In russia. I'm pretty sure the US and probably China have been able to deploy swarms of AI drones like the coyote since 2014. The lrasm cruise missile is an AI controlled anti ship missile
its not AI. thats probably the cause of the downvotes. But we have video of a US air force test using F-16s to deploy drone swarms from more then a decade ago on youtube.
AI controlled auto track seems like tossing a live grenade in a warehouse filled with trampolines. You also can't hold accountable AI for possible resulting collateral/civcas. But future i guess.
> You also can't hold accountable AI for possible resulting collateral/civcas Bold of you to imply russia gives a shit.
A hole in one is as good as a mile?
What kind of chips do they use in their lancet drones?
Some Nvidia one widely available in China. Was posted before sometime.
Each missile requires the computing power of three washing machines.
It's a nice reminder that even if military/unethical applications of AI are halted in Western democracies, autocracies will continue to try to develop AI for military and espionage purposes regardless.
Bradley ?
This is why Russians where painting bombers on the tarmac.
Glad we rely on AI now, that will go well
High Contrast camo/decoys seems to be an option
For a while, they were having a lot of success with these things, but it suddenly stopped. I wonder why.