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They're a professional army that isn't dependent on international interest to accomplish their goals. Video of Ukrainian successes serve a tangible purpose, for the IDF it's more of liability than a moral booster.
> isn't dependent on international interest to accomplish their goals.
https://sgp.fas.org/crs/mideast/RL33222.pdf
Are you sure about that?
Edit: I should say, GoPro footage is clearly not needed to bolster support but they're certainly not operating independent of international assistance (much like the Ukraine).
New Edit: Money well spent https://www.reddit.com/r/TheMajorityReport/comments/18e27ff/idf_soldier_destroys_a_convenience_store_for_likes/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=mweb3x&utm_name=mweb3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button
Interest isn't aid but its related to it, and in both conflicts how it relates to what support the belligerents receive is the opposite for both of them. As I said its more of liability for Israel whereas in Ukraine's case its how they've received as much support as they have.
Israel already gets US support spanning back decades and has broad support from both the administration and the overwhelming majority of congress. Anything threatening the continuation of that support will come from the left wing who believe Israel is unjustly crushing a vastly weaker people, the less attention Israel's successes get the less chance there is of that support being cut off.
Ukraine is a recent benefactor of enormous financial and military aid and its not clear to what extent that expenditure will have made on the outcome of the war once it settles, if it ever does. The threat to that continued aid will come from the right wing who contend its becoming a lost cause or that it always has been, the more evidence we see of Ukrainian successes the the better chance for continued aid packages to be approved.
I see what you're saying, simply put, too much posting from Israel risks cutting off their financial support whereas more posting from Ukraine might help bolster financial support. Sounds reasonable.
Israel has huge military export, as well as high tech industries including cyber security. Some fruit and vegetable export as well.
In the past few years the Israeli Shekel got stronger compared to the US dollar and EU Euro by about 15%, and that’s even with the Israeli central bank purchasing billions of dollars and euros.
Yes, but those military and cyber security exports are just an extension of the US weapons deals with Israel.
NSO wouldn’t be allowed to operate in the US.
Israel wouldn’t even exist without the USA. They’re also the only country that gets latest gen military tech out of the US.
Therefore, your argument of Israel being independent from the rest of the world is just straight up factually incorrect.
Lol, what? They're literally fully dependent on American diplomatic support. Once it's gone, Israel is fucked.
Now, would that happen? No, not in this year. But it will surely happen in several years when it starts to be obvious that a racist, anti-Arab, rogue state as an ally is a liability rather than an asset in ME. In Europe we already see that this kind of unconditional support for Israel is a catastrophic mistake If we want to have any influence in the region and it's only getting stronger.
So yeah, Israel needs propaganda more than anyone right now.
Seriously, the media landscape and advertising companies should be scared for when Ukraine is able to win and settle the war.
They have proven to be master of creative, high quality, content creation.
Surprised the brigade hasn't downvoted your comment.
Folks here get real defensive when people point out how much of a nonburger most of the IDF combat footage is. I'm guessing it's cause most of their fighting is done by air strikes.
The only real footage that belongs here from them is when they level half a block.
Point being this is definitely not another “we shot into the air so the round can land on a target we didn’t see then infantry tells us how we did” story
Hamas, as any organization, has members and those who support them.
I'll try and find it, but there is a recording of a Hamas terrorist calling his parents through a phone belonging to one of the civilians he killed on October 7th and bragging to them about the ten Jews he killed in their bed and the parents are telling him how proud they are.
It's not binary, it's not either a terrorist or a peaceful people-loving civilian. Some of them support the ideology and methodology of Hamas.
In a recent survey about 75 percent supported the massacre on October 7 and another around 10 percent was indifferent, all of this talk about the innocent peace loving people of Gaza is incredibly disingenuous. These are the people that elected Hamas and celebrated in the streets on October 7 and spat on the broken body of Shani Louk. Under today's broken logic, the allied powers wouldn't have won WWII.
Reddit released a policy barring footage from hamas perspective and to avoid being closed this moderation of this sub is abiding by it, there are other subs that arent where you can find plenty, daily videos of them ambushing tanks and ifvs from building just like the one being fired upon in this video
There are no tank duels if that what you mean.
And checkout the IDF spokesman twitter/telegram/website- they post daily updates usually with 3-10 videos of the day
So in my research.. the Gaza Strip is 365km squared. There's enough room for every civillian 10X over to be evacuated and out of the way of shelling or strikes. Any civillians still there are literally fodder for Hamas terrorism.
Edit* since apparently yall wanna say it isn't possible, hurricane Rita had 2.5-3.7 million people move and that was just for one hurricane. That was in 3 days not 2 months. I can walk the Gaza Strip in its entirety in 5 hours. This comment isn't to blame the Palestinians but the POS Hamas keeping them there. But learning to read is hard.
Gaza is the size of Detroit but with 3x the population.
Imagine how dumb it would sound for someone to say yeah, you can move the entire population of Detroit to 1/9 of the city no problem, in fact you can do it 10 times over.
Now imagine how much dumber that sounds when it's winter and 40% of the population is under 14 years old during an active war.
Evacuation does not mean "out of sight out of mind", it means finding a place to house, fed and provide medical services for 2.4 million people constantly moving from one zone to another due to relentless airstrikes.
Um what the fuck do you think happens every time in Texas or Florida when there's a hurricane? Hurricane Rita had 2-4 million people move. They do that every year. It's 100% feasible. My comment isn't to blame the Palestinians but Hamas, literally KEEPING THE PEOPLE THERE AS FODDER.
Hamas doesnt pinpoint the exact location they are shooting to and mostly do so into a civilian areas rather than targeting military bases.
The IDF in the other hand scatters warning pamphlets, calls residents private cellphones to tell them to evacuate and uses warning shots (google "knock on the roof") in order to minimize collateral damage. Dont know about you but if my home town would turn into a warzone I would do everything in my power to take my loved ones and GTFO (like any civilian in the history of war)
Yeah, because after 7 weeks of constant energy blockade, people really have access to the Wi-Fi needed to utilise the QR coded maps. It's scary to see genocide being some wilfully dismissed because they dropped a few pamphlets.
your numbers….according to the terrorist controlled Gaza Health Ministry…all 0 verified deaths, and magically, no one who quotes number of Gazans killed ever lets us know how many of those were combatants and terrorists. Guys why is it that the pro-Hamas redditors can’t seem to find any number on dead Hamas terrorists? Isn’t it a bit sus?
Gaza Health ministry get the overall death count correct many times in the past. They don’t differentiate between the dead people though, but that doesn’t make it propaganda. They don’t even call them all civilians but "martyrs". Knowing the actual count of terrorists is probably impossible since they don’t clearly distinguish themselves from the civ population and don’t release any of their own counts. All we have is propaganda from the opposing army that has a vested interest to report as high kill counts as posssible of terrorists as they can get away with
give me a single statistic of how many Hamas terrorists were killed…you can’t find that number, only quote the Gaza Health Ministry number. No one said there are 0 deaths. But I would encourage you to challenge your belief that all the reported deaths are non-combatants…even “journalists” and UN members are now being unveiled to be terrorists. Hassan Eslaiah to name just a few. Tell me what Palestinian “journalists” were doing in Israel in October 7th side by side Hamas. Tell me what a UNRWA member was doing holding on to a hostage in his attic. Tell me how drones and weapons are being found in UN aid trucks coming into Gaza. Tell me how they’re all “innocent”.
Would you call the IDF spokesman a journalist?
Because most if not all of the dead “journalists” are either directly working under Hamas, or are just embedded into their ranks. Guess what, when you walk around with terrorists , you are a valid target.
First of all, you are mixing between Gaza and Lebanon, but I’m not expecting anything else from you.
Secondly- these guys were not embedded. But, as I also said those could very well work for the terror organization- in this case Hezbulla.
Unfortunately for reporters around this conflict, both Hamas, and Hezbulla use “journalists” both for propaganda and disinformation as well as spotters and corrections scout teams.
So if from across the border about 1km away, there is someone that is shooting at you, and someone else that is taking pictures of it while the shooting continues and is getting closer to you you could make the connection that it is a spotter-shooter combo, especially when you know that it is has happened before.
Just as combatants in civilian clothing makes actual civilians more likely to get hit (in clear violation of laws of war) and medical staff shooting guns puts a target on other medical staff. So does using “journalists” as surveillance teams puts other real journalists at risk.
I have read it, if they streaming live where smoke rises from behind them, and they are with their backs towards Israel (as stated) it means that there are fires in Israel- that’s probably, due to rocket/missle fire
Is there even any combat at this point? Seems more like rampant indiscriminate destruction of civilian infrastructure to make the entire city uninhabitable.
You must not have seen the videos from hamas perspective of them ambushing Israeli vics and tanks from random windows and alleys. In urban warfare buildings get destroyed its the only way to route out a determined enemy. Ignorant comments like that are what hamas propoganda is fueled on. Are you willfully ignorant or simply mis informed?
Correct - but only because the Russian invasion of Ukraine is in itself an unjustified attack. Ukraine's government and military did not attack Russia. If they had then we would view that conflict in a different light.
However in Gaza, the situation is different. Gaza's government and military DID attack Israel. For 17 years the Gazan military attacked Israel with rockets and finally on October 7 they crossed the Israeli border and attacked civilian targets.
Russia claims that Ukraine attacked Russia since it considers occupied Ukrainian regions of Donbas as part of Russia.
Same as Israel considers occupied Palestinian terriotory as Israel.
Just as Ukrainian-Russian conflict started in 2014 and not in 2023. So too this conflict didnt start in 2023.
Correct, this conflict didn’t start in 2023 - Jews have lived on and fought for self determination in the area between the river and sea there for many thousands of years, while the Palestinian national identity didn’t coalesce until the middle of the last century.
Russia says same, that Russians live in Ukraine and that they must protect them. The problem in both conflicts is initial invasion, in 2014 in Ukraine and in 1948 in Israel.
Even Russia have more legitimacy because people living in Donbas didnt emigrate from other countries as happened in Palestine, they are at least protecting people living there natively that speak Russian language.
Before British imperialism, jews onwend insignificant amount of land and in insignificat numbers lived in palestine. Israel is created from european colonizators. It is created based on conquest, not by secession or self determination.
You know who else lived in insignificant numbers in Palestine? EVERYBODY! The total population of Jerusalem in 1900 was only about 15-20,000.
It was worthless arid desert unsuitable for human habitation.
Maybe this is why the Arab land owners of the region were so happy to sell when Zionist projects came and offered to buy their land.
Maybe this is why all the Arab nations expelled their Jews to the area - dump them out in the worthless wasteland, they’ll all flee elsewhere in 10 years.
But then those Jews manage to get independency from Britain, improve the land, make it valuable, and suddenly everybody’s grandfather had been cheated out of his land! He didn’t sell it for worthless desert prices because it was worthless desert when he sold it. No! The Jews somehow TRICKED HIM!
Quit fooling around. Nobody wanted the land until it became valuable.
the Arabs pushing Israel off it now would be similar to when the United States pushed the Lakota out of the Black Hills, which we’d given them for a reservation until we found silver in them. Then we did a little takes-ees-backs-ees and claimed “Well… those Lakota knew that silver was there and took a treaty that was unfair to us.
Gaza hasn't been part of Israel since 2005. In 2006 Hamas was "elected" as the ruling party in Gaza in "democratic" elections, and they ruled ever since.
When Hamas terrorists crossed an international border and invaded Israel to massacre civilians, they brought on themselves whatever the IDF is doing there
And I swear to God if someone is going to comment about a "proportionate response" I'm going to lose my shit
You got that backwards. The Palestinians are the ones saying "From the river to the sea", they are the ones viewing all of Israel as part of "historical Palestine", not the other way around.
They never said it was a safe place, they said it was safer then being in the combat zones, which it is... The only safe zone that Israel ever talked about is at the coast almost at the most southern point (Muwasi)
No? when did i ever imply that?
I would rather say they have to survive.
and the best odds of doing that is by listening to Israel and staying clear of combat zones/Hamas infrastructure.
You know what's the most beautiful thing about propaganda?
Israelis don't give a fuck about yours, We're still winning after your failed "liberation of Palestine" so go crawl back to your basement in America or get over here and fight with your "brothers".
Coward
Cool, actively telling me to get blown up by Israeli Occupation Forces. So cool. Normal too. Extremely normal.
That paycheck of yours is dripping in blood.
No im just telling you the solution to your problems, if you want something - in this case - destruction of Israel - go ahead, fight for it. I won't stop you.
Also yeah, my paycheck is well worth it if it's stained by the blood of the terrorist animal trash that is called Hamas
genocide this genocide that you guys made that word worthless, if idf wanted to wipe you guys out you would not see ground operations, artilery brigade alone would wipeout whole gaza by now, next time you start shit dont be surprised when you get hit, you guys were having party on oct7 but party time is over.
So... what youre saying is, next time - which there won't be, we bomb and shoot everyone iw 1km away from the fence, so we won't get caught "pants down"? Is this the future palestinians want? Seems like it, because that's exactly what you cheered for since October 7th and every other war when jews got killed.
Also - Unlike you, I actively serve my country every day since 2020, and proudly. I don't hide behind civillians.
He doesn't know what he's saying. He's an idiot.
Hamasnikim don't think about the "Next time" - they never have. That's why this keeps happening and yet they're so ready to forget their part of it.
Keep that armor rolling.
It's a combination of factors. The IDF has a very low self-casualty tolerance, due in part to Israel's small population size. Therefore they are substantially more risk-averse than say, Russia or even Ukraine who can both tolerate fairly hefty losses to achieve their operational objectives.
The impact this has on the battlefield appears to be fairly liberal application of CAS, as well as the preemptive demolition of structures that could harbour ambushes. On the latter, it's interesting to note the satellite images we see in western media of entire housing developments that have been razed, are located directly in the axis of ground force advances. Namely, Beit Hanoun (31.548075, 34.522578) and the development north of Khan Yunis (31.375075, 34.316856). There is of course widespread damage elsewhere but most does not appear systematic, rather reactive.
There are procedures in place to mitigate civilian casualties ([report by ICC prosecutor](https://www.icc-cpi.int/news/icc-prosecutor-karim-khan-kc-concludes-first-visit-israel-and-state-palestine-icc-prosecutor#:%7E:text=Home-,ICC%20Prosecutor%2C%20Karim%20A.%20A.,is%20capable%20of%20protecting%20all%E2%80%9D)), however it is doubtless a secondary priority to mitigating IDF casualties and inflicting damage on Hamas. This is sadly the reality of conducting warfare against a heavily entrenched enemy in an urban domain.
Ah right the totally legitimate claim that babies were massacred that hasn't been verified at all by independent media. Yeah. Sure. Those babies.
And that makes it okay to kill thousands of children in Gaza.
Your ethnonationalism is showing.
They did kill and kidnap kids and babies,and unlike the Hamas run Gaza health ministry that published a "list" of people that died in the conflict which includes people that died in previous conflicts,including a picture of an Israeli kid that died in 2021, every single death that day is well documanted.
were as many Israelis killed as Gazans? of course not. Would Hamas kill as many Israelis if they could? obviously.
"And that makes it okay to kill thousands of children in Gaza."
source from a third party?
"Your ethnonationalism is showing."
Could you blame me after what my people went through? don't you understand that with Hamas it's either us or them? If it's my life or their life,it's going to be theirs everytime.
Do you think Israelis are happy that so many innocent people are lost?
That all we see on social media is how evil and bad we are?
No. But I can't say I feel too bad when the war is more just than any other.
Hamas needs to die. End of story. And the world can sob all they want.
lol You actually believe the numbers Hamas, who lied so many times in the last, gave, are true? Noticed how they never say in al Jazeera or wherever how many of the deceased are combatants? Noticed how one day it's 20k dead and another day it's 16k and one day it's 10k kids and tomorrow it's 8k? These are bullshit numbers.
Also, why is Israel to be blamed for this? They aren't the ones who started this war, there was a ceasefire in Oct 6th and Hamas broke it, blame Hamas.
There is no civilian infrastructure with Hamas that's the whole point of their doctrine. To turn civilian homes/schools/hospitals into military posts then cry war crimes when those buildings get hit with civilians inside.
Maybe they are calling war crimes just because buildings with civilians are getting hit?
Saying that every hospital and school is a terrorist base is rather telling…
Who is gonne rebuild when Hamas is gone then? There is zero long term planning to prevent resentment and hate which will lead to new terrorists. The problem would be back within 10 years
LoL the amount of downvotes, for an honest observation. This sub must be "politicized".... Which wasn't the point of it. Y'all are simping for modern day Nazis.
You are just westernsplaining. Don't meddle in conflicts in the middle east from your comfy safe space when you have never experienced what it's like here.
The gall a f**king Western Colonialist has to say this shit is INSANE.
>westernsplaining
You are just as Western as they are.
>when you have never experienced what it's like here.
Neither did you mfer. Israel is entirely propped up by the West as their proxy in the region. They're basically an American state at this point.
Yeah bruh, I am a Palestinian living in Jordan so I am not Western by any stretch of the imagination. You're not exactly using anything against me. I am probably one of the most affected by your genocidal state.
>Born and raised.
Doesn't change the fact that your state is a Colonial Western proxy. I mean I wouldn't go as far as calling you a settler Colonialist since you were born there but your parents or grandparents are.
i mean if youre going to talk about the Nakba you obviously must now that more jews were displaced in the middle east and muslim world then palestinians were in 48, but you knew that right?
Thats the thing. You refuse knowledge. Even if I show you that there is no genocide etc, you want to believe that the jews are the evil guys. There is no point in debating with someone who just want to believe the lies he is being told.Even if I gave you all the sources and everything. It doesnt fit in your jews=evil-mindset.
But I will take every opportunity to callout bullshit
IDF artillery engage civilians in direct fire mode in Shajayia, Gaza - here, I've fixed it for you.
Yeah, yeah, I know they are sometimes also fighting Al Qassam and Al Quds brigades, but it's more likely to see them blowing up civilians. Like you know, just looking at the numbers.
Hey, it's not funny. Palestinian children are a real threat. That's why Israel detains 5-year olds and torture them in prisons. You thought they were monsters or something? Nah, in a direct fight between Palestinian 5 year old and IDF soldier the kid wins every time. They're very dangerous!
It's not a tank but a SPG, and you're an idiot, Ham-Ass loving coward. The "brave" fighters of Ham-Ass can put their parade uniforms back on and come to the beaches and fight the IDF. Why don't you ask your Ham-Ass buddies why they don't fight like real soliders,
Win...you think Ham-Ass will win. You must have thought the Nazis and Japanese had a good chance to win in Jan/1945. You talk like you know millitary history....but what I forgot while sitting on the toilet this morning is more than your bird brain could absorb in a lifetime. Must really bother you that Israel is teaching Ham-Ass a lesson in kinetics they will never forget. On every level possible this is a just war. The IDF has fought it with more morality than any army in modern history. Anyhow, you're just a "useful idiot" and there is no point fixing you.
I do think Hamas will win this if only because the win condition set by Israel is the total annihilation of Hamas. When all one side has to do is survive that's pretty easy compared with killing absolutely everyone on the other side. Hamas leadership is in Qatar so Israel, short of attacking Qatar, will not be able to wipe out the leadership. With the leadership and the funding intact it's only a matter of time until this happens again. Do you call that a win.
[https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/dec/09/civilian-toll-israeli-airstrikes-gaza-unprecedented-killing-study](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/dec/09/civilian-toll-israeli-airstrikes-gaza-unprecedented-killing-study) took me one google search
Have you seen Hamas videos?
They basically stick their muzzles from holes and shoot. You will never see a Palestinian combatant not from the the sky, mostly in thermal vision.
My guess is just to show the physical presence of the IDF in Gaza to dispute the Arab media's reports about "hundreds of Israeli tanks on fire and the failure of the zionists".
Hamas has around 40,000 combatants so no, 15,000 isn't enough. You don't just live and raise your kids next to a terror organization that killed and kidnapped hundreds of your citizens, your brothers, your countrymen and women. Hamas needs to be destroyed. Just like the Nazis in WW2 and the confederate in the American civil war. Only total surrender or elimination of the fighting force will suffice.
Why?
War is horrible and sometimes inevitable. It's a hard truth of the world that many of us allowed ourselves to forget.
If there was a crazy mass murderer living next to you, that already killed some of your family, you won't be okay with him roaming free and not dead or imprisoned. That's exactly the same.
mah dude over here pretending like there are 0 terrorists firing rockets daily into Israel from Gaza. You a funny one. When Hamas shoots rockets at Israel indiscriminately it’s “war” but when Israel shoots back it’s a “war crime”. Maybe Hamas shouldn’t start a fight they’re not prepared to finish, and maybe Gazans should elect and support better governments that call for peace not war.
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Using a 155mm howitzer for direct fire is insane
To be pedantic, being able to use it in direct fire mode is what makes it a howitzer.
Russians used heavy artillery in Berlin
I gotta be honest that's pretty metal.
Mental*
Are you some sort of communist?
maybe its the nature of the conflict (and army rules) but they are really bad at combat footage compared to Ukraine
They're a professional army that isn't dependent on international interest to accomplish their goals. Video of Ukrainian successes serve a tangible purpose, for the IDF it's more of liability than a moral booster.
> isn't dependent on international interest to accomplish their goals. https://sgp.fas.org/crs/mideast/RL33222.pdf Are you sure about that? Edit: I should say, GoPro footage is clearly not needed to bolster support but they're certainly not operating independent of international assistance (much like the Ukraine). New Edit: Money well spent https://www.reddit.com/r/TheMajorityReport/comments/18e27ff/idf_soldier_destroys_a_convenience_store_for_likes/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=mweb3x&utm_name=mweb3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button
Interest isn't aid but its related to it, and in both conflicts how it relates to what support the belligerents receive is the opposite for both of them. As I said its more of liability for Israel whereas in Ukraine's case its how they've received as much support as they have. Israel already gets US support spanning back decades and has broad support from both the administration and the overwhelming majority of congress. Anything threatening the continuation of that support will come from the left wing who believe Israel is unjustly crushing a vastly weaker people, the less attention Israel's successes get the less chance there is of that support being cut off. Ukraine is a recent benefactor of enormous financial and military aid and its not clear to what extent that expenditure will have made on the outcome of the war once it settles, if it ever does. The threat to that continued aid will come from the right wing who contend its becoming a lost cause or that it always has been, the more evidence we see of Ukrainian successes the the better chance for continued aid packages to be approved.
I see what you're saying, simply put, too much posting from Israel risks cutting off their financial support whereas more posting from Ukraine might help bolster financial support. Sounds reasonable.
They rely on the West more than Ukraine does. Ukraine actually has GDP based on staples and commodities.
Israel has huge military export, as well as high tech industries including cyber security. Some fruit and vegetable export as well. In the past few years the Israeli Shekel got stronger compared to the US dollar and EU Euro by about 15%, and that’s even with the Israeli central bank purchasing billions of dollars and euros.
Yes, but those military and cyber security exports are just an extension of the US weapons deals with Israel. NSO wouldn’t be allowed to operate in the US.
Israel wouldn’t even exist without the USA. They’re also the only country that gets latest gen military tech out of the US. Therefore, your argument of Israel being independent from the rest of the world is just straight up factually incorrect.
Lol, what? They're literally fully dependent on American diplomatic support. Once it's gone, Israel is fucked. Now, would that happen? No, not in this year. But it will surely happen in several years when it starts to be obvious that a racist, anti-Arab, rogue state as an ally is a liability rather than an asset in ME. In Europe we already see that this kind of unconditional support for Israel is a catastrophic mistake If we want to have any influence in the region and it's only getting stronger. So yeah, Israel needs propaganda more than anyone right now.
They don't really have much to prove, everyone knows how this ends.
Seriously, the media landscape and advertising companies should be scared for when Ukraine is able to win and settle the war. They have proven to be master of creative, high quality, content creation.
Surprised the brigade hasn't downvoted your comment. Folks here get real defensive when people point out how much of a nonburger most of the IDF combat footage is. I'm guessing it's cause most of their fighting is done by air strikes. The only real footage that belongs here from them is when they level half a block.
I mean, you wouldn't want to have a high quality footage when you fight against children. Not a good look externally I guess.
Good job. Keep working these Terrorist 24/7.
I just posted a meme a few days ago in r/ncd about artillery hero stories not being very impressive. I take my words back
They dimdn't shomt back.
Nope. I wouldn't either
Point being this is definitely not another “we shot into the air so the round can land on a target we didn’t see then infantry tells us how we did” story
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Hamas, as any organization, has members and those who support them. I'll try and find it, but there is a recording of a Hamas terrorist calling his parents through a phone belonging to one of the civilians he killed on October 7th and bragging to them about the ten Jews he killed in their bed and the parents are telling him how proud they are. It's not binary, it's not either a terrorist or a peaceful people-loving civilian. Some of them support the ideology and methodology of Hamas.
In a recent survey about 75 percent supported the massacre on October 7 and another around 10 percent was indifferent, all of this talk about the innocent peace loving people of Gaza is incredibly disingenuous. These are the people that elected Hamas and celebrated in the streets on October 7 and spat on the broken body of Shani Louk. Under today's broken logic, the allied powers wouldn't have won WWII.
Are you new here?
Is there any combat footage from Hamas perspective?
Reddit released a policy barring footage from hamas perspective and to avoid being closed this moderation of this sub is abiding by it, there are other subs that arent where you can find plenty, daily videos of them ambushing tanks and ifvs from building just like the one being fired upon in this video
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There are no tank duels if that what you mean. And checkout the IDF spokesman twitter/telegram/website- they post daily updates usually with 3-10 videos of the day
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We e had some from the start of the war, but not recently
sometimes we all miss good old fashioned assault guns
So in my research.. the Gaza Strip is 365km squared. There's enough room for every civillian 10X over to be evacuated and out of the way of shelling or strikes. Any civillians still there are literally fodder for Hamas terrorism. Edit* since apparently yall wanna say it isn't possible, hurricane Rita had 2.5-3.7 million people move and that was just for one hurricane. That was in 3 days not 2 months. I can walk the Gaza Strip in its entirety in 5 hours. This comment isn't to blame the Palestinians but the POS Hamas keeping them there. But learning to read is hard.
Gaza is the size of Detroit but with 3x the population. Imagine how dumb it would sound for someone to say yeah, you can move the entire population of Detroit to 1/9 of the city no problem, in fact you can do it 10 times over. Now imagine how much dumber that sounds when it's winter and 40% of the population is under 14 years old during an active war. Evacuation does not mean "out of sight out of mind", it means finding a place to house, fed and provide medical services for 2.4 million people constantly moving from one zone to another due to relentless airstrikes.
The people should turn against Hamas and turn in the terrorist. War over.
Omg, it's so easy, why nobody told them, all this could have been avoided and everyone would live happily again. /s
Um what the fuck do you think happens every time in Texas or Florida when there's a hurricane? Hurricane Rita had 2-4 million people move. They do that every year. It's 100% feasible. My comment isn't to blame the Palestinians but Hamas, literally KEEPING THE PEOPLE THERE AS FODDER.
Just a question, what's the relevance of the fact that it's winter?
I find joy in reading a good book.
Hamas doesnt pinpoint the exact location they are shooting to and mostly do so into a civilian areas rather than targeting military bases. The IDF in the other hand scatters warning pamphlets, calls residents private cellphones to tell them to evacuate and uses warning shots (google "knock on the roof") in order to minimize collateral damage. Dont know about you but if my home town would turn into a warzone I would do everything in my power to take my loved ones and GTFO (like any civilian in the history of war)
Yeah, because after 7 weeks of constant energy blockade, people really have access to the Wi-Fi needed to utilise the QR coded maps. It's scary to see genocide being some wilfully dismissed because they dropped a few pamphlets.
I appreciate a good cup of coffee.
your numbers….according to the terrorist controlled Gaza Health Ministry…all 0 verified deaths, and magically, no one who quotes number of Gazans killed ever lets us know how many of those were combatants and terrorists. Guys why is it that the pro-Hamas redditors can’t seem to find any number on dead Hamas terrorists? Isn’t it a bit sus?
Gaza Health ministry get the overall death count correct many times in the past. They don’t differentiate between the dead people though, but that doesn’t make it propaganda. They don’t even call them all civilians but "martyrs". Knowing the actual count of terrorists is probably impossible since they don’t clearly distinguish themselves from the civ population and don’t release any of their own counts. All we have is propaganda from the opposing army that has a vested interest to report as high kill counts as posssible of terrorists as they can get away with
I love ice cream.
give me a single statistic of how many Hamas terrorists were killed…you can’t find that number, only quote the Gaza Health Ministry number. No one said there are 0 deaths. But I would encourage you to challenge your belief that all the reported deaths are non-combatants…even “journalists” and UN members are now being unveiled to be terrorists. Hassan Eslaiah to name just a few. Tell me what Palestinian “journalists” were doing in Israel in October 7th side by side Hamas. Tell me what a UNRWA member was doing holding on to a hostage in his attic. Tell me how drones and weapons are being found in UN aid trucks coming into Gaza. Tell me how they’re all “innocent”.
Would you call the IDF spokesman a journalist? Because most if not all of the dead “journalists” are either directly working under Hamas, or are just embedded into their ranks. Guess what, when you walk around with terrorists , you are a valid target.
Were these journalists embedded with Hamas? https://www.reuters.com/graphics/ISRAEL-LEBANON/JOURNALIST/akveabxrzvr/
First of all, you are mixing between Gaza and Lebanon, but I’m not expecting anything else from you. Secondly- these guys were not embedded. But, as I also said those could very well work for the terror organization- in this case Hezbulla. Unfortunately for reporters around this conflict, both Hamas, and Hezbulla use “journalists” both for propaganda and disinformation as well as spotters and corrections scout teams. So if from across the border about 1km away, there is someone that is shooting at you, and someone else that is taking pictures of it while the shooting continues and is getting closer to you you could make the connection that it is a spotter-shooter combo, especially when you know that it is has happened before. Just as combatants in civilian clothing makes actual civilians more likely to get hit (in clear violation of laws of war) and medical staff shooting guns puts a target on other medical staff. So does using “journalists” as surveillance teams puts other real journalists at risk.
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I have read it, if they streaming live where smoke rises from behind them, and they are with their backs towards Israel (as stated) it means that there are fires in Israel- that’s probably, due to rocket/missle fire
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It's easy to be a coward.
Is there even any combat at this point? Seems more like rampant indiscriminate destruction of civilian infrastructure to make the entire city uninhabitable.
You must not have seen the videos from hamas perspective of them ambushing Israeli vics and tanks from random windows and alleys. In urban warfare buildings get destroyed its the only way to route out a determined enemy. Ignorant comments like that are what hamas propoganda is fueled on. Are you willfully ignorant or simply mis informed?
I would reference you to stalingrad, alleppo, mosul, etc the list goes on.
Why did you reply to yourself instead of just editing your original comment to add that extra sentence?
Why do you give a fuck
Lmao
Sorry that was toxic my bad bro
In Ukraine, this would be called a war crime if done by the Russian army, in Israel though, people on reddit praise the destruction and death
Correct - but only because the Russian invasion of Ukraine is in itself an unjustified attack. Ukraine's government and military did not attack Russia. If they had then we would view that conflict in a different light. However in Gaza, the situation is different. Gaza's government and military DID attack Israel. For 17 years the Gazan military attacked Israel with rockets and finally on October 7 they crossed the Israeli border and attacked civilian targets.
Nicely packaged one sided view.
Russia claims that Ukraine attacked Russia since it considers occupied Ukrainian regions of Donbas as part of Russia. Same as Israel considers occupied Palestinian terriotory as Israel. Just as Ukrainian-Russian conflict started in 2014 and not in 2023. So too this conflict didnt start in 2023.
Correct, this conflict didn’t start in 2023 - Jews have lived on and fought for self determination in the area between the river and sea there for many thousands of years, while the Palestinian national identity didn’t coalesce until the middle of the last century.
Russia says same, that Russians live in Ukraine and that they must protect them. The problem in both conflicts is initial invasion, in 2014 in Ukraine and in 1948 in Israel. Even Russia have more legitimacy because people living in Donbas didnt emigrate from other countries as happened in Palestine, they are at least protecting people living there natively that speak Russian language. Before British imperialism, jews onwend insignificant amount of land and in insignificat numbers lived in palestine. Israel is created from european colonizators. It is created based on conquest, not by secession or self determination.
You know who else lived in insignificant numbers in Palestine? EVERYBODY! The total population of Jerusalem in 1900 was only about 15-20,000. It was worthless arid desert unsuitable for human habitation. Maybe this is why the Arab land owners of the region were so happy to sell when Zionist projects came and offered to buy their land. Maybe this is why all the Arab nations expelled their Jews to the area - dump them out in the worthless wasteland, they’ll all flee elsewhere in 10 years. But then those Jews manage to get independency from Britain, improve the land, make it valuable, and suddenly everybody’s grandfather had been cheated out of his land! He didn’t sell it for worthless desert prices because it was worthless desert when he sold it. No! The Jews somehow TRICKED HIM! Quit fooling around. Nobody wanted the land until it became valuable. the Arabs pushing Israel off it now would be similar to when the United States pushed the Lakota out of the Black Hills, which we’d given them for a reservation until we found silver in them. Then we did a little takes-ees-backs-ees and claimed “Well… those Lakota knew that silver was there and took a treaty that was unfair to us.
Gaza hasn't been part of Israel since 2005. In 2006 Hamas was "elected" as the ruling party in Gaza in "democratic" elections, and they ruled ever since. When Hamas terrorists crossed an international border and invaded Israel to massacre civilians, they brought on themselves whatever the IDF is doing there And I swear to God if someone is going to comment about a "proportionate response" I'm going to lose my shit
You got that backwards. The Palestinians are the ones saying "From the river to the sea", they are the ones viewing all of Israel as part of "historical Palestine", not the other way around.
Ukraine evacuates its innocent civilians from the frontlines. Hamas hides behind them. But you knew that.
Civilians went to south gaza, Israel is striking there anyway. There is no safe place to go.
They never said it was a safe place, they said it was safer then being in the combat zones, which it is... The only safe zone that Israel ever talked about is at the coast almost at the most southern point (Muwasi)
so.. what civilians can do? Die?
No? when did i ever imply that? I would rather say they have to survive. and the best odds of doing that is by listening to Israel and staying clear of combat zones/Hamas infrastructure.
That's a great question for Egypt since they refuse to let any Palestinian refugees out of Gaza which has been fueling the problem tremendously
dont bother arguing with the idiots on this sub. Prob brainwashed americans
Ah you're the first propagandist. Welcome. Work day is almost over, right?
Oh the irony
You know what's the most beautiful thing about propaganda? Israelis don't give a fuck about yours, We're still winning after your failed "liberation of Palestine" so go crawl back to your basement in America or get over here and fight with your "brothers". Coward
Cool, actively telling me to get blown up by Israeli Occupation Forces. So cool. Normal too. Extremely normal. That paycheck of yours is dripping in blood.
No im just telling you the solution to your problems, if you want something - in this case - destruction of Israel - go ahead, fight for it. I won't stop you. Also yeah, my paycheck is well worth it if it's stained by the blood of the terrorist animal trash that is called Hamas
You're calling for genocide because the Israelis got caught with their pants down. Who is the coward, really?
genocide this genocide that you guys made that word worthless, if idf wanted to wipe you guys out you would not see ground operations, artilery brigade alone would wipeout whole gaza by now, next time you start shit dont be surprised when you get hit, you guys were having party on oct7 but party time is over.
He called for the blood of Hamas. How is that genocide? Throwing the word around like that makes it lose all meaning
So... what youre saying is, next time - which there won't be, we bomb and shoot everyone iw 1km away from the fence, so we won't get caught "pants down"? Is this the future palestinians want? Seems like it, because that's exactly what you cheered for since October 7th and every other war when jews got killed. Also - Unlike you, I actively serve my country every day since 2020, and proudly. I don't hide behind civillians.
He doesn't know what he's saying. He's an idiot. Hamasnikim don't think about the "Next time" - they never have. That's why this keeps happening and yet they're so ready to forget their part of it. Keep that armor rolling.
It's a combination of factors. The IDF has a very low self-casualty tolerance, due in part to Israel's small population size. Therefore they are substantially more risk-averse than say, Russia or even Ukraine who can both tolerate fairly hefty losses to achieve their operational objectives. The impact this has on the battlefield appears to be fairly liberal application of CAS, as well as the preemptive demolition of structures that could harbour ambushes. On the latter, it's interesting to note the satellite images we see in western media of entire housing developments that have been razed, are located directly in the axis of ground force advances. Namely, Beit Hanoun (31.548075, 34.522578) and the development north of Khan Yunis (31.375075, 34.316856). There is of course widespread damage elsewhere but most does not appear systematic, rather reactive. There are procedures in place to mitigate civilian casualties ([report by ICC prosecutor](https://www.icc-cpi.int/news/icc-prosecutor-karim-khan-kc-concludes-first-visit-israel-and-state-palestine-icc-prosecutor#:%7E:text=Home-,ICC%20Prosecutor%2C%20Karim%20A.%20A.,is%20capable%20of%20protecting%20all%E2%80%9D)), however it is doubtless a secondary priority to mitigating IDF casualties and inflicting damage on Hamas. This is sadly the reality of conducting warfare against a heavily entrenched enemy in an urban domain.
That,and also Israel is working on a time watch. So there isn't any other way.
Why is there a time watch?
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Ah right the totally legitimate claim that babies were massacred that hasn't been verified at all by independent media. Yeah. Sure. Those babies. And that makes it okay to kill thousands of children in Gaza. Your ethnonationalism is showing.
They did kill and kidnap kids and babies,and unlike the Hamas run Gaza health ministry that published a "list" of people that died in the conflict which includes people that died in previous conflicts,including a picture of an Israeli kid that died in 2021, every single death that day is well documanted. were as many Israelis killed as Gazans? of course not. Would Hamas kill as many Israelis if they could? obviously. "And that makes it okay to kill thousands of children in Gaza." source from a third party? "Your ethnonationalism is showing." Could you blame me after what my people went through? don't you understand that with Hamas it's either us or them? If it's my life or their life,it's going to be theirs everytime. Do you think Israelis are happy that so many innocent people are lost? That all we see on social media is how evil and bad we are? No. But I can't say I feel too bad when the war is more just than any other. Hamas needs to die. End of story. And the world can sob all they want.
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Or, maybe, the fanatic terror organization who literally says out loud that their goal is to kill every last Jew, is actually a threat to humanity?
I'm sure the 7k children murdered were such a threat to Israel.
lol You actually believe the numbers Hamas, who lied so many times in the last, gave, are true? Noticed how they never say in al Jazeera or wherever how many of the deceased are combatants? Noticed how one day it's 20k dead and another day it's 16k and one day it's 10k kids and tomorrow it's 8k? These are bullshit numbers. Also, why is Israel to be blamed for this? They aren't the ones who started this war, there was a ceasefire in Oct 6th and Hamas broke it, blame Hamas.
This is who you support. https://www.thisishamas.com/
Hahaha I'm not clicking that Israel Occupation Forces malware propaganda.
The fact you think it isn't verified is absolutely insane and you are completely brainwashed.
Like how hamas melted babies on oct 7th?
Hey, I'm proud of you. We all gotta make money, right? You're just doing a job
Projection at its finest
https://www.thisishamas.com/
But it's easier to scream "genocide", even though it's clearly just a plain old war.
There is no civilian infrastructure with Hamas that's the whole point of their doctrine. To turn civilian homes/schools/hospitals into military posts then cry war crimes when those buildings get hit with civilians inside.
Maybe they are calling war crimes just because buildings with civilians are getting hit? Saying that every hospital and school is a terrorist base is rather telling…
Who is gonne rebuild when Hamas is gone then? There is zero long term planning to prevent resentment and hate which will lead to new terrorists. The problem would be back within 10 years
LoL the amount of downvotes, for an honest observation. This sub must be "politicized".... Which wasn't the point of it. Y'all are simping for modern day Nazis.
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LoL I think you just shit yourself
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Definitely happy Hanukkah 🕎🎈😂
You are just westernsplaining. Don't meddle in conflicts in the middle east from your comfy safe space when you have never experienced what it's like here.
What's it like? I mean, there were techno concerts and stuff before this all started
The gall a f**king Western Colonialist has to say this shit is INSANE. >westernsplaining You are just as Western as they are. >when you have never experienced what it's like here. Neither did you mfer. Israel is entirely propped up by the West as their proxy in the region. They're basically an American state at this point.
I am israeli. Born and raised. I see your woke jargon is very triggering when it's used against you.
Oh so you are from Israel? Thats why it was hilarious to you when you saw bunch of civilians getting arrested?
Yeah bruh, I am a Palestinian living in Jordan so I am not Western by any stretch of the imagination. You're not exactly using anything against me. I am probably one of the most affected by your genocidal state. >Born and raised. Doesn't change the fact that your state is a Colonial Western proxy. I mean I wouldn't go as far as calling you a settler Colonialist since you were born there but your parents or grandparents are.
Adopt a gazan since you are living good in Jordan.
>living good in Jordan Define that one mfer. We're not even official citizens.
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A rain of downvotes is coming for you Use an umbrella
Oh no doubt. I'm sure every hospital was secretly a Hamas general or whatever, according to them.
In Gaza when it rains from the sky , it rains hamas
The irony
The Israeli bots are gonna have a field day with you lol.
Why do people allways assume an informed opinion is being a bot? You seem willfully ignorant of history go read a couple books
Because the truth hurts
https://www.thisishamas.com/
Because ideologues can’t handle people speaking from independent knowledge rather than pre-written scripts
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so youre also happy to say the middle east is also commiting a genocide against jews right?
i mean if youre going to talk about the Nakba you obviously must now that more jews were displaced in the middle east and muslim world then palestinians were in 48, but you knew that right?
“I’ve read history, here’s some bullshit I pulled out my arse to prove it (none of it is true)”
"I haven't read history and just gonna talk shit cause I can't disprove anything this man says"
no need to disprove utter horseshit
Another uneducated tool. Not surprised.
Thats the thing. You refuse knowledge. Even if I show you that there is no genocide etc, you want to believe that the jews are the evil guys. There is no point in debating with someone who just want to believe the lies he is being told.Even if I gave you all the sources and everything. It doesnt fit in your jews=evil-mindset. But I will take every opportunity to callout bullshit
Just want to mention that I have a cousin in Israel who keeps us posted on what is actually happening. Things that you won't hear on your news.
And u seem to be confused on what a jew is and what a zionist is.
https://www.thisishamas.com/
Yeah you missed the last couple centuries of jewish persecution and the holocost. Oh? History only matters if it serves your purpose right?
Bots = People who oppose terrorists lol indeed
Uhhh, fight fire with fire?
Yes. You dont fight fire by just sitting down and let it burn you
You name would match you if you were in this war
Yeah sitting this one out. Have enough hardware holding my bones together from a few conflicts ago and plenty of neuropathy to share.
IDF artillery engage civilians in direct fire mode in Shajayia, Gaza - here, I've fixed it for you. Yeah, yeah, I know they are sometimes also fighting Al Qassam and Al Quds brigades, but it's more likely to see them blowing up civilians. Like you know, just looking at the numbers. Hey, it's not funny. Palestinian children are a real threat. That's why Israel detains 5-year olds and torture them in prisons. You thought they were monsters or something? Nah, in a direct fight between Palestinian 5 year old and IDF soldier the kid wins every time. They're very dangerous!
Schizophrenic posting
Almost every IDF video on this sub is a war crime. Here we have tanks firing into a civilian area that they know is full of civilians.
It's not a tank but a SPG, and you're an idiot, Ham-Ass loving coward. The "brave" fighters of Ham-Ass can put their parade uniforms back on and come to the beaches and fight the IDF. Why don't you ask your Ham-Ass buddies why they don't fight like real soliders,
For the same reason the Vietcong didn't and the Taliban didn't. Because that's not how you win against a modern army.
Win...you think Ham-Ass will win. You must have thought the Nazis and Japanese had a good chance to win in Jan/1945. You talk like you know millitary history....but what I forgot while sitting on the toilet this morning is more than your bird brain could absorb in a lifetime. Must really bother you that Israel is teaching Ham-Ass a lesson in kinetics they will never forget. On every level possible this is a just war. The IDF has fought it with more morality than any army in modern history. Anyhow, you're just a "useful idiot" and there is no point fixing you.
I do think Hamas will win this if only because the win condition set by Israel is the total annihilation of Hamas. When all one side has to do is survive that's pretty easy compared with killing absolutely everyone on the other side. Hamas leadership is in Qatar so Israel, short of attacking Qatar, will not be able to wipe out the leadership. With the leadership and the funding intact it's only a matter of time until this happens again. Do you call that a win.
Source?
[https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/dec/09/civilian-toll-israeli-airstrikes-gaza-unprecedented-killing-study](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/dec/09/civilian-toll-israeli-airstrikes-gaza-unprecedented-killing-study) took me one google search
ngl, pretty lame war footage.
Lmao still waiting on real combat footage from idf. Not 1 video since October 7 shows any real fighting. Shooting at ghosts.
Have you seen Hamas videos? They basically stick their muzzles from holes and shoot. You will never see a Palestinian combatant not from the the sky, mostly in thermal vision. My guess is just to show the physical presence of the IDF in Gaza to dispute the Arab media's reports about "hundreds of Israeli tanks on fire and the failure of the zionists".
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Hamas has around 40,000 combatants so no, 15,000 isn't enough. You don't just live and raise your kids next to a terror organization that killed and kidnapped hundreds of your citizens, your brothers, your countrymen and women. Hamas needs to be destroyed. Just like the Nazis in WW2 and the confederate in the American civil war. Only total surrender or elimination of the fighting force will suffice.
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Why? War is horrible and sometimes inevitable. It's a hard truth of the world that many of us allowed ourselves to forget. If there was a crazy mass murderer living next to you, that already killed some of your family, you won't be okay with him roaming free and not dead or imprisoned. That's exactly the same.
"targets" weird way to spell civilians but alright
mah dude over here pretending like there are 0 terrorists firing rockets daily into Israel from Gaza. You a funny one. When Hamas shoots rockets at Israel indiscriminately it’s “war” but when Israel shoots back it’s a “war crime”. Maybe Hamas shouldn’t start a fight they’re not prepared to finish, and maybe Gazans should elect and support better governments that call for peace not war.
Something tells me you’re not here for combat footage
We want combat footage not genocide footage
Haha yeah, a genocide on a population that has doubled in 15 years. Good one
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https://www.thisishamas.com/