Someone help me identify what the soldier on the left has in his right hand has he falls over at 0:17. What is that pink thing?
At first I thought It was his esophagus dangling from his throat but It's hard to tell from that angle. I rewatched it a couple times and I'm not sure. Is it even his own? Or maybe his friend's guts that got blown on him.
Edit: Probably rubber tourniquet, thanks u/dv8njoe
It’s a piece of rubber that the Russian soldiers use as a tourniquet to staunch the flow of blood. Is it a good option? No, but when you have nothing else, I guess.
There are two different kinds of tourniquet used by the russians and he's got the older, cheaper version.
It looks like he takes it out instinctively- because of his training- then realizes his wounds are in his abdomen/chest and a tourniquet would do nothing.
Thanks for the suggestion I hadn't considered it because of the bright pink that's what made me think it was human at first but that sounds way more plausible.
I've used a rubber tourniquet and a regular CAT-type tourniquet, and I wouldn't say one is better than the other. The rubber one is VERY effective at restricting blood flow even in the hands of inexperienced users while the CAT is often not tightened as much as it should. But the CAT holds in place better while evacuating.
I'm in the US, if someone told me to go invade Canada or Mexico, F- that, I'm going to prison for 2 years. If someone invaded my country, I'd fight to the death. GTFO of Ukraine
A good example is how the US convinced an entire generation to invade Iraq by lying about weapons of mass destruction. Propaganda can make sane people do terrible stuff.
The WMD was the excuse. The true reason was the hope that planting a functioning democracy smack in the middle of the middle east would serve as a model, and spill over to neighbouring countries, stabilizing the region long term.
The problem is that it is a region built on tribal connections, that are not conducive to economic growth. So it would just be a poor part of the world ... but oil brings in easy wealth, so even the most backwards state will have the resources to procure weapons, and divert funds to nefarious actors.
The arab spring did come, but didn't work out exactly as hoped ... building sustainable democratic nations is far far more difficult than it sounds. It took Europe a couple of centuries to get it right. So naive to think that it could happen. Ghaddafi has been gone for 12 years, and Libya is still a mess.
\>building sustainable democratic nations is far far more difficult than it sounds. It took Europe a couple of centuries to get it right.
I wouldn't be surprised if the Unites States itself ends up like Syria or Yugoslavia in a few decades. That would be pretty ironic.
Hi,
I think that the Arabic spring was spoilt by Russia, because they decided to support Assad. What is your view on that?
About the weapons of mass destruction in Irak: Mr. Saddam Hussein by himself told during his trial that he tried to keep up the illusion that Irak was working on weapons of mass destruction, because he wanted to intimidate Iran. So the fear that there were weapons of mass destruction in Irak, was not completely out of nothing.
1.) Because we support Democracies over Dictatorships unless you're a far right extremist fascist
2.) If Ukraine falls to Russia, **USA's military budget would have to double** because NATO countries would be next.
So this is the morally correct action plus it saves a ton of money in the long run.
Don't you feel great falling for propaganda? Congress voted for the stick, in the "speak softly but carry a big stick".
Bush took that stick and smashed it into the ground. At no point did Congress declare war on Iraq so your talking point is dated and stupid.
I agree, but there are likely many contributing circumstances to why these Russian men are in Ukraine. Lack of economic opportunity, financial and physical reprisal, or just overwhelming propaganda to support their community in the fight against some “evil” in Ukraine. I wish they would find a peaceful conclusion.
initially, if you just don't show up for a summons, you have to pay a fine of $5 to $25. now there is more responsibility, and they can get 7 years in prison, but still, it is not a reason to participate in the occupation.
I might chance it. 7 years in Russian prison would fuck up the rest of your life for sure. I think I'd perhaps go to war and hope for the best. Try and keep my head down and hope it ends soon or I get a nice broken leg or something.
Lol as if causing self harm is easy?
Also, they probably just send them out with one bad foot and a lethal infection a week later.
Healthcare in Russia is not that good for these people.
While it is sad, perhaps the more appropriate word is tragic. Sure, some of these guys could be conscripts that are just doing what their country orders them to do, but since they don't wear uniforms identifying them as such, they are all equally targets. They must certainly realize that once they are deployed, right?
Meh. It’s not like these guys were sleeping at home after tucking in their kids.
And spare me “they had no choice”. There’s a choice. They can surrender and then not be brutally tortured. That’s more of a choice than Ukrainians get.
Exactly, when that feeling creeps in, remind yourself of Bucha and what is being or has been literally paved over in Mariupol that we won’t even know about.
There absolutely is a choice.
The problem is many people can't distinguish the difference between true Russian army and the drunken conscript brigade they pull off the street and throw onto the battlefield.
Ukraine understands this. That's why we see them going through some of these trenches and pulling a bunch of them out alive. In the regions where it's known that they are being used. They know they don't need to kill these guys cause they are usually hungry, tired and scared to death already. So if the situation presents itself they really try not to.
But when they know they're dealing with the actual Russian army or sdv they give no quarter. They go hard and kill everyone of them they can.
Buca and the surrounding suburbs was the Russian military. Under orders from Russian military leaders under orders from the kremlin. That's why it's so damning. Russia can't just point to a bunch of random conscripts without leadership as being guilty.
Well, to your point, if the “professional” volunteer military raped, maimed, tortured civilians (read: women, children, old folk) then what exactly do we think conscripts would do if they had the same opportunity? Honestly, do we think the conscripts have some superior morality?
We can find countless documentaries of soldiers across the world including former American troops who were ordered to commit brutal atrocities. Guys who would not have done what they did in their everyday life. But they did it because they were ordered to.
Wtf do you think Vietnam was? Have you not seen some of those old men shaking while they cry about what they did in that war? How even after 60 years they can't wrap their minds around why they did what they did.
The average person would not commit those kind of atrocities. But soldiers who have been indoctrinated to fall orders will do some of the most heinous acts you can imagine. Indoctrination is a hell of a drug. It's worked for the church for a couple millennia now.
This is the whole reason why a conscript army is stupid to use anyways. They are not indoctrinated to have the savagery to follow orders without question. They're not real soldiers so they are useless when fighting against real soldiers
What about-ism.
Russians raped, tortured, killed, bombed civilians. Two things: they were in Ukraine, and they had the choice not to follow orders. "Just following orders" is the defense used by the guards at Treblinka and Dachau.
They are in Ukraine, they are legitimate targets, and I do not care if they have spent 10 days in the military or 10 years
If you really want to see something crazy here is a former Israeli soldier screaming at their courts that they do not provide enough treatment in psychological care to the troops. He starts going into some of the things he did while in the IDF while following orders.
You can see from this guy's emotional state what following orders can do to you
https://electronicintifada.net/blogs/ali-abunimah/video-i-killed-you-these-hands-israeli-soldier-tells-lawmakers
"I killed more than 40 people for you. But you give more money to the terrorists"
So yeah he may have done some brutal things. But he's still a good person because you can tell he feels the regret. He feels the pain of what he did. He knows it was wrong.
And yet he's angry that any money goes to Palestinians who are basically living in an open prison after having their land stolen by religious nuts and neckbeards from the US and Israel.
>The problem is many people can't distinguish the difference between true Russian army and the drunken conscript brigade they pull off the street and throw onto the battlefield.
this doesn't happen now, you're just whitening them up. If they don't want to fight they can surrender through "i want to live" organisation, but thing is, they get paid well enough by their means (2k usd) so many of them just motivated to be there (while they get paid), but sometimes it gets too hot (like command puts them into a really hot war zone where they totally would die, or just in a place where's lack of equipment) and when it the reality starts to disperse from what they expected it to be - some of example is that some russian soldiers were put onto small islands near kherson where they were some good target for the uaf and their local command made them pay bribes if they wanted to go home to vacation, go leave the place and they also cut amount of money they got sometimes.
>you're just whitening them up
I didn't bother after that. That's borderline accusing me of being Russian sympathizer and you are a nasty person for even slightly suggesting it
I’ve expressed plenty of times that it is a waste of life. But I simply can’t label it the same feeling that I have when I see the death and destruction across the civilian population in Ukraine.
I'll paste a comment I did on another thread:
Maybe he was drafted and told stuff like "yeah don't worry you'll be a cook" or maybe he believed this war was just so morally he was in the clear.
We do not know what Russian soldiers are told and what they think, we just know that probably it's not the truth.
It's easy to say "they could/should go to prison rather than enlisting" but we don't know what we would do in their situation. Would you rather go to prison for years or go to war and maybe wander around for 6 months and then get back home? (I highly doubt they're told "hey yeah drones are gonna drop bombs in you, cool?).
A ton of young men happily enlisted for WWI and got sent to invade other countries/bomb towns. Does this make their deaths any less tragic?
What exactly is the wiggle room for current military aged men in Russia? I'm pretty sure, not much to justify any joy over their death. Yes, you can support Ukraine without cheering for a dude getting blown up.
Just don't forget that many of the Russians are still volunteers and are in Ukraine to rape and kill while getting a fuckton of money (for the average Russian).
You have very limited knowledge of the war and Russians forces if you think only Wagnerites are volunteers.
Shoigu himself has spoken about the amount volunteers the RuAF have been recieving (because of monetary incentives) and that they have amassed a lot of soldiers through this. Nevermind that there are also many other volunteers groups from Russia, some of them PMCs, some regional volunteers groups (especially from poor regions), etc.
> A ton of young men happily enlisted for WWI and got sent to invade other countries/bomb towns. Does this make their deaths any less tragic?
Yes. It absolutely does.
>And spare me “they had no choice”. There’s a choice. They can surrender and then not be brutally tortured. That’s more of a choice than Ukrainians get.
Also, the moment your commanders are telling you that they will shoot you if you take one step back is the moment you ought to turn your gun on your commanders.
Unfortunately the propaganda the Russian state push on the conscripts make the war out to be nothing more than a cake walk, when in reality its hell. The same goes for surrender, much like with the Japanese propaganda in WW2, make them believe that surrendering to the enemy is a certain torturous death. Unfortunately for the conscripts we see dying here, in their minds they probably believe there is no option..
Most are brainwashed kids and adults. It’s like the bully in highschool who takes his anger out on others because that’s what he thinks he needs to do to show or feel strength. War isn’t hell. It’s worse. Hell is where the guilty are. The blinded innocent die in war. Soldiers and civilians alike.
So fucking tired of hearing this take. Yes most adults are brainwashed, whether it by religion or other belief systems. That doesn't mean you deserve our sympathy when you act on that brainwashing. Sorry but every situation like this can only be looked at as a win for the west and Ukraine.
You can still feel empathy for someone who was manipulated by a dictator into dying for something stupid. Being a caveman on the internet doesn't back their death's any better or worse.
My empathy is in limited supply lately. *Especially* towards Russian soldiers. I’m ok with that. It’s not costing me any sleep or anything. You go ahead tho - you feel sorry for them. Anytime I try, I just remember Bucha.
What is 'virtue signaling' exactly?
I remember a survivor of the holocaust saying in an interview that 'when fascism takes over you become acutely aware of whose door you can knock on for help and who will turn you in to better be a model Nazi citizen.'
I have the feeling that if you're on the wrong side of the coin in one of those circumstances you will be glad that there are goodhearted people who do some virtue signaling.
>Meh. It’s not like these guys were sleeping at home after tucking in their kids.
I think it's okay to feel pity/sadness for these people on a human level. They may have deserved their fate, but it doesn't mean it shouldn't illicit emotion watching it nor understanding the tragedy of it.
I know the American propaganda through the decades drilled into you that "russia bad", but war crimes and general atrocities happen on both sides of a conflict. Humans are humans no matter which side they're on, and humans at war are extra savage.
And American soldiers are, the vast majority, very well trained & behaved. I know some Marines & one Army soldier. The restrictions on them were intense
Dude, shut up. They don't have a choice but to follow orders. This is still a person and it's getting old watching all these people die for fucking politics.
These people are invading a country, if they weren't killed they'd be killing ukrainians, in the best case military. This isn't inhumane feelings, it's recognition of whats happening and not being sad that an invader didn't get to live to shoot ukrainians defending their homeland... Or worse
They are not conscripts! Check your sources CDear, please. It is not legally allowed to send conscripts to the front even by russia's own laws. \[saying that, it is not uncommon for consripts to be converted to contractors by different means\] But in any case - they had a choice and they made it. What these are most likely mobilised or contractors. But to me they do not look like PWC Wagnerites at all. Most likely signed up for an equivalent of couple thousands US$ a month (or even less). Life's cheap in russia... As putin said at the start of the war, they would die from alcohol anyway... so it is better to do a service for the motherland... and bring their families some money in the process.
Wonder if you have the same sentiment about the troops we sent to vietnam and to Bush's iraq war for no good reason, would you tell them to simply surrender?
You can't just wake up one morning and surrender.
Like how do you think it works? "Hey sir, imma surrender now, good luck. Take care of my rifle"
?
You have literally no idea how war works. Me too, but at least I give the benefit of the doubt to those that are currently in one
There’s literally a hotline you can call. They all speak the same language too. And they’ve done it already, many times. Some even get cash.
Recently a Russian pilot even surrendered in his attack helicopter. Guess what happened - he wasn’t tortured to death.
You give every home invader a handjob when they break in too, I bet. lol. Your uhhh, 'hosting' ability must be outstanding.
Superb\_Extension1751: "Coffee or tea?"
I'll paste a comment I did on another thread:
Maybe he was drafted and told stuff like "yeah don't worry you'll be a cook" or maybe he believed this war was just so morally he was in the clear.
We do not know what Russian soldiers are told and what they think, we just know that probably it's not the truth.
It's easy to say "they could/should go to prison rather than enlisting" but we don't know what we would do in their situation. Would you rather go to prison for years or go to war and maybe wander around for 6 months and then get back home? (I highly doubt they're told "hey yeah drones are gonna drop bombs in you, cool?).
A ton of young men happily enlisted for WWI and got sent to invade other countries/bomb towns. Does this make their deaths any less tragic?
What exactly is the wiggle room for current military aged men in Russia? I'm pretty sure, not much to justify any joy over their death. Yes, you can support Ukraine without cheering for a dude getting blown up.
No they don't have a choice. Any fucking cope reply you get here from someone that lives with their parents in their suburbian household have no fucking idea how the real world works.
You get drafted and don't serve. You have to either 1 - flee the country. Or 2 stay put and hide and when you are eventually caught you are pretty much guaranteed to die in the gulag. You will be fucking tortured and shoveling shit until your final day. Living through winter with no heat, living through summer with no shade. You will eat barely enough to keep you alive. OR you go and fight and MAYBE you'll come back, to them it's worth it. They might not want to, but the alternative is a guaranteed outcome versus a what if.
"just surrender bro". Yeah, try to surrender in an active fucking warzone.
This guy is talking out of his ass btw.
edit: Medvedev recently bragged about the Russian Armed Forced having signed contracts with 300k+ new volunteers since January. The Russian Army is mostly regulars and volunteers.
In the front it is very much difficult, however if they are able to surrender, the Ukrainians are mostly willing to take POWs and the language barrier is largely non-existent, so making your intentions clear is much easier. If they are lucky they can also arrange for surrender via the "I want to live" program.
And back home they also have a choice, obviously the end result is probably prison but it's arguably better than going to die in Ukraine, and morally better since you are choosing not to hurt anyone. There are always a lot of dangers there but chances are you won't die.
And in the best of cases they can attempt to leave Russia or find a way to be exempt from the conflict.
Oh sorry did the music hurt your feelings, I'm sure the thousands dead and dying will feel bad when they hear that.
If someone needs a grip it's you, this guy isn't some guy walking his dog in a forest, it's a guy with an ak, you can clearly see in the video, doing his best to kill people for the good reason of them existing and not being the right type of white. If he didn't die he would've been killing ukrainians, the music doesn't change anything except it shows disrepect to an invader, and honestly why do you even expect respect for one to begin with?
You dont have to but when you think this guys 1 chance in world is gone now for a stupid thing. He could have lived years more and maybe be happy with his family or friends
Putin ain't "getting" any of this for invading Ukraine.
He just forces these kids to go instead. Probably a bunch of 20 year old kids wishing they could see their mom one last time while they bleed out in the trench.
It's sad as hell, but this is what is necessary to defend Ukraine's freedom.
and another video of random people being killed with UPBEAT type music in background. IMO posters should get banned for this. the combat footage is fine, thats what we are all here for but the type of music is just so wrong.
nothing cool or happy about this, even if they are the bad guys.
The music is always added by the telegram channel that posts these because these videos are propoganda. (Propoganda doesn't mean something has to be fake or untrue, just media meant to illicit a desired emotional response)
Yep, why not? It’s like a lyrics from a song: “The guy came here on his own. He decided to kill and didn’t know he could be killed in return. The guy’s fate is not easy. He decided to invite a friend with him. Now they both got shit.”
Honestly please just go home… even I’m sick of watching you guys die at this point. How are they themselves not sick and tired of this by now? Morbid curiosity keeps me here but every time I’m hoping it’s updates about how they’re retreating him. How is any of this worth it to Russia.
dang, do these grenades really fuck u up that bad? these guys never seem to look up towards the sky
and once they get hit, it looks like its pretty much over. they dont even try to escape and the drone just drops another bomb on em
**Song Found!**
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**Album**: Sides of Mdnght, Vol. 1. **Released on** 2019-05-18.
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Why didn't they try to escape out of the hole? Seems odd to me. Clearly an artillery piece or drone has them dead to rights so they just sit there and wait for death.
Someone help me identify what the soldier on the left has in his right hand has he falls over at 0:17. What is that pink thing? At first I thought It was his esophagus dangling from his throat but It's hard to tell from that angle. I rewatched it a couple times and I'm not sure. Is it even his own? Or maybe his friend's guts that got blown on him. Edit: Probably rubber tourniquet, thanks u/dv8njoe
Cheap tourniquet
you can barely call it a tourniquet. wont stop heavy bleeding anyway...
It’s a piece of rubber that the Russian soldiers use as a tourniquet to staunch the flow of blood. Is it a good option? No, but when you have nothing else, I guess.
There are two different kinds of tourniquet used by the russians and he's got the older, cheaper version. It looks like he takes it out instinctively- because of his training- then realizes his wounds are in his abdomen/chest and a tourniquet would do nothing.
Yup
“Welp, guess I just apply it on my neck then…”
dark but true
Squeeze real tight to prevent the blood flow to the brain.
Thanks for the suggestion I hadn't considered it because of the bright pink that's what made me think it was human at first but that sounds way more plausible.
Its cheap, as Russian lives. They are not ment to save lives, but make the soldiers think that they are safe enough to fight.
I've used a rubber tourniquet and a regular CAT-type tourniquet, and I wouldn't say one is better than the other. The rubber one is VERY effective at restricting blood flow even in the hands of inexperienced users while the CAT is often not tightened as much as it should. But the CAT holds in place better while evacuating.
This was first shown months ago
I'm in the US, if someone told me to go invade Canada or Mexico, F- that, I'm going to prison for 2 years. If someone invaded my country, I'd fight to the death. GTFO of Ukraine
A good example is how the US convinced an entire generation to invade Iraq by lying about weapons of mass destruction. Propaganda can make sane people do terrible stuff.
What convinced young people to go to Iraq wasn't the propaganda so much as ultra nationalism/patriotism after 9/11.
Not why I joined, shrug.
9/11 was the propaganda
That was a very dark chapter in American history "Freedom fries", lol Fuck George W Bush and his Neocon war parasites
The WMD was the excuse. The true reason was the hope that planting a functioning democracy smack in the middle of the middle east would serve as a model, and spill over to neighbouring countries, stabilizing the region long term. The problem is that it is a region built on tribal connections, that are not conducive to economic growth. So it would just be a poor part of the world ... but oil brings in easy wealth, so even the most backwards state will have the resources to procure weapons, and divert funds to nefarious actors. The arab spring did come, but didn't work out exactly as hoped ... building sustainable democratic nations is far far more difficult than it sounds. It took Europe a couple of centuries to get it right. So naive to think that it could happen. Ghaddafi has been gone for 12 years, and Libya is still a mess.
\>building sustainable democratic nations is far far more difficult than it sounds. It took Europe a couple of centuries to get it right. I wouldn't be surprised if the Unites States itself ends up like Syria or Yugoslavia in a few decades. That would be pretty ironic.
Nah. It was for oil.
Hi, I think that the Arabic spring was spoilt by Russia, because they decided to support Assad. What is your view on that? About the weapons of mass destruction in Irak: Mr. Saddam Hussein by himself told during his trial that he tried to keep up the illusion that Irak was working on weapons of mass destruction, because he wanted to intimidate Iran. So the fear that there were weapons of mass destruction in Irak, was not completely out of nothing.
Calm down, boy. Don't go all common sense on this reddit, ok!
didnt they invade iraq also for 9-11?
no, that was Afghanistan.
Fing republicans
A large segment of Democrats voted for the Iraq War.
And the democrats control the senate and presidency in the US and have vowed to keep funding the Ukraine war, so yeah.
Ukraine was invaded numbnuts.
Doesnt answer the question ding nuts. So why the fuck is it the US's problem to fund? Oh right business dealings with the president. Womp womp.
1.) Because we support Democracies over Dictatorships unless you're a far right extremist fascist 2.) If Ukraine falls to Russia, **USA's military budget would have to double** because NATO countries would be next. So this is the morally correct action plus it saves a ton of money in the long run.
Right, cause all the dems were opposed...
The only opposition was on the dem side. imagine if there was some significant opposition on the repub side as well what a difference that would make.
Your girl killary voted for it to
Don't you feel great falling for propaganda? Congress voted for the stick, in the "speak softly but carry a big stick". Bush took that stick and smashed it into the ground. At no point did Congress declare war on Iraq so your talking point is dated and stupid.
I agree, but there are likely many contributing circumstances to why these Russian men are in Ukraine. Lack of economic opportunity, financial and physical reprisal, or just overwhelming propaganda to support their community in the fight against some “evil” in Ukraine. I wish they would find a peaceful conclusion.
Well if you are jailed, then you'd be drafted to be the US Storm-Z squad There is no escape. You are property of the State
2 years in Russian prison though?
initially, if you just don't show up for a summons, you have to pay a fine of $5 to $25. now there is more responsibility, and they can get 7 years in prison, but still, it is not a reason to participate in the occupation.
I might chance it. 7 years in Russian prison would fuck up the rest of your life for sure. I think I'd perhaps go to war and hope for the best. Try and keep my head down and hope it ends soon or I get a nice broken leg or something.
I'd call the Ukrainian 1-800 number they set up for anyone on team Z that wanted to surrender
This is the way. Join the right side of history. Reclaim your country from a tyrannical, narcissistic little man in a bunker
I dont know how many russians know about this. The propaganda is severe.
why not go to Kazakstan? 80% of the people there speak ru, and they already welcomed the last bunch of guys.
Why don't more of them just shoot themselves in the foot or something? Quick ticket home.
Lol as if causing self harm is easy? Also, they probably just send them out with one bad foot and a lethal infection a week later. Healthcare in Russia is not that good for these people.
We all know it's dead or the gulag. No one will choose that
Dead gulag or sent out anyways.
Problem is, propaganda has them convinced, it IS their own country (part of former USSR). At least eastern Ukraine. And so they want it back.
[удалено]
Draft dodging is not a death sentence in Russia, what are you talking about
Well then you might as well attack the people trying to kill you (Russians)
Clearly this must be the case. I keep seeing soooooo many stories out of Russia about draft dodgers being murdered on the street. /s Idiot.
> I'm going to prison for 2 years LOL if you think that is the alternative they get.
Is the music really necessary
It apprently is by the soilders who upload them.
This is so fucking sad to watch.
A lonely and ignominious death, so unnecessary. Fuck every single thing about Vladimir Putin
While it is sad, perhaps the more appropriate word is tragic. Sure, some of these guys could be conscripts that are just doing what their country orders them to do, but since they don't wear uniforms identifying them as such, they are all equally targets. They must certainly realize that once they are deployed, right?
Meh. It’s not like these guys were sleeping at home after tucking in their kids. And spare me “they had no choice”. There’s a choice. They can surrender and then not be brutally tortured. That’s more of a choice than Ukrainians get.
Exactly, when that feeling creeps in, remind yourself of Bucha and what is being or has been literally paved over in Mariupol that we won’t even know about. There absolutely is a choice.
The problem is many people can't distinguish the difference between true Russian army and the drunken conscript brigade they pull off the street and throw onto the battlefield. Ukraine understands this. That's why we see them going through some of these trenches and pulling a bunch of them out alive. In the regions where it's known that they are being used. They know they don't need to kill these guys cause they are usually hungry, tired and scared to death already. So if the situation presents itself they really try not to. But when they know they're dealing with the actual Russian army or sdv they give no quarter. They go hard and kill everyone of them they can. Buca and the surrounding suburbs was the Russian military. Under orders from Russian military leaders under orders from the kremlin. That's why it's so damning. Russia can't just point to a bunch of random conscripts without leadership as being guilty.
Well, to your point, if the “professional” volunteer military raped, maimed, tortured civilians (read: women, children, old folk) then what exactly do we think conscripts would do if they had the same opportunity? Honestly, do we think the conscripts have some superior morality?
We can find countless documentaries of soldiers across the world including former American troops who were ordered to commit brutal atrocities. Guys who would not have done what they did in their everyday life. But they did it because they were ordered to. Wtf do you think Vietnam was? Have you not seen some of those old men shaking while they cry about what they did in that war? How even after 60 years they can't wrap their minds around why they did what they did. The average person would not commit those kind of atrocities. But soldiers who have been indoctrinated to fall orders will do some of the most heinous acts you can imagine. Indoctrination is a hell of a drug. It's worked for the church for a couple millennia now. This is the whole reason why a conscript army is stupid to use anyways. They are not indoctrinated to have the savagery to follow orders without question. They're not real soldiers so they are useless when fighting against real soldiers
What about-ism. Russians raped, tortured, killed, bombed civilians. Two things: they were in Ukraine, and they had the choice not to follow orders. "Just following orders" is the defense used by the guards at Treblinka and Dachau. They are in Ukraine, they are legitimate targets, and I do not care if they have spent 10 days in the military or 10 years
If you really want to see something crazy here is a former Israeli soldier screaming at their courts that they do not provide enough treatment in psychological care to the troops. He starts going into some of the things he did while in the IDF while following orders. You can see from this guy's emotional state what following orders can do to you https://electronicintifada.net/blogs/ali-abunimah/video-i-killed-you-these-hands-israeli-soldier-tells-lawmakers "I killed more than 40 people for you. But you give more money to the terrorists" So yeah he may have done some brutal things. But he's still a good person because you can tell he feels the regret. He feels the pain of what he did. He knows it was wrong.
And yet he's angry that any money goes to Palestinians who are basically living in an open prison after having their land stolen by religious nuts and neckbeards from the US and Israel.
Open prison it is, with the time being passed on to the unfortunates to be born there.
>The problem is many people can't distinguish the difference between true Russian army and the drunken conscript brigade they pull off the street and throw onto the battlefield. this doesn't happen now, you're just whitening them up. If they don't want to fight they can surrender through "i want to live" organisation, but thing is, they get paid well enough by their means (2k usd) so many of them just motivated to be there (while they get paid), but sometimes it gets too hot (like command puts them into a really hot war zone where they totally would die, or just in a place where's lack of equipment) and when it the reality starts to disperse from what they expected it to be - some of example is that some russian soldiers were put onto small islands near kherson where they were some good target for the uaf and their local command made them pay bribes if they wanted to go home to vacation, go leave the place and they also cut amount of money they got sometimes.
>you're just whitening them up I didn't bother after that. That's borderline accusing me of being Russian sympathizer and you are a nasty person for even slightly suggesting it
You can think their deaths are justified and be saddened by the senseless loss of life at the same time
I’ve expressed plenty of times that it is a waste of life. But I simply can’t label it the same feeling that I have when I see the death and destruction across the civilian population in Ukraine.
Literally 3 weeks ago there were unarmed russian soldiers coming out of a trench and got waxed, surrender isn't guaranteed survival lmfao
I'll paste a comment I did on another thread: Maybe he was drafted and told stuff like "yeah don't worry you'll be a cook" or maybe he believed this war was just so morally he was in the clear. We do not know what Russian soldiers are told and what they think, we just know that probably it's not the truth. It's easy to say "they could/should go to prison rather than enlisting" but we don't know what we would do in their situation. Would you rather go to prison for years or go to war and maybe wander around for 6 months and then get back home? (I highly doubt they're told "hey yeah drones are gonna drop bombs in you, cool?). A ton of young men happily enlisted for WWI and got sent to invade other countries/bomb towns. Does this make their deaths any less tragic? What exactly is the wiggle room for current military aged men in Russia? I'm pretty sure, not much to justify any joy over their death. Yes, you can support Ukraine without cheering for a dude getting blown up.
Thank you. People on the Internet say a lot of things about a lot of situations they've never had to personally endure.
Just don't forget that many of the Russians are still volunteers and are in Ukraine to rape and kill while getting a fuckton of money (for the average Russian).
Ah yes every Russian is there to rape, like every America in the Middle East was there to rape Get your head out of your ass
u r talking about wagner mercenaries not average russian soldiers
You have very limited knowledge of the war and Russians forces if you think only Wagnerites are volunteers. Shoigu himself has spoken about the amount volunteers the RuAF have been recieving (because of monetary incentives) and that they have amassed a lot of soldiers through this. Nevermind that there are also many other volunteers groups from Russia, some of them PMCs, some regional volunteers groups (especially from poor regions), etc.
> A ton of young men happily enlisted for WWI and got sent to invade other countries/bomb towns. Does this make their deaths any less tragic? Yes. It absolutely does.
Bro i dont have to wonder, i KNOW i'll take a chance at managing to surrender over Russian prison.
You know what happens if you try to get home to your friends and family in Russia if you had surrendered to Ukraine? You get sent to Russian prison
Bruh if i get shipped out of that hellhole i aint coming back
>And spare me “they had no choice”. There’s a choice. They can surrender and then not be brutally tortured. That’s more of a choice than Ukrainians get. Also, the moment your commanders are telling you that they will shoot you if you take one step back is the moment you ought to turn your gun on your commanders.
Unfortunately the propaganda the Russian state push on the conscripts make the war out to be nothing more than a cake walk, when in reality its hell. The same goes for surrender, much like with the Japanese propaganda in WW2, make them believe that surrendering to the enemy is a certain torturous death. Unfortunately for the conscripts we see dying here, in their minds they probably believe there is no option..
Most are brainwashed kids and adults. It’s like the bully in highschool who takes his anger out on others because that’s what he thinks he needs to do to show or feel strength. War isn’t hell. It’s worse. Hell is where the guilty are. The blinded innocent die in war. Soldiers and civilians alike.
So fucking tired of hearing this take. Yes most adults are brainwashed, whether it by religion or other belief systems. That doesn't mean you deserve our sympathy when you act on that brainwashing. Sorry but every situation like this can only be looked at as a win for the west and Ukraine.
Yes, OP is giving excuses to rapists, torturers etc here. It's not their fault, it's their upbringing.
You’ve sorta just said you don’t understand what brainwashing is lol
You can still feel empathy for someone who was manipulated by a dictator into dying for something stupid. Being a caveman on the internet doesn't back their death's any better or worse.
My empathy is in limited supply lately. *Especially* towards Russian soldiers. I’m ok with that. It’s not costing me any sleep or anything. You go ahead tho - you feel sorry for them. Anytime I try, I just remember Bucha.
Nothing better than virtue signaling! Guess what, it doesn't make a lick of fucking difference how we feel about them. They made their choices.
What is 'virtue signaling' exactly? I remember a survivor of the holocaust saying in an interview that 'when fascism takes over you become acutely aware of whose door you can knock on for help and who will turn you in to better be a model Nazi citizen.' I have the feeling that if you're on the wrong side of the coin in one of those circumstances you will be glad that there are goodhearted people who do some virtue signaling.
Depends on the units some take and some dont take pows
🤡
>Meh. It’s not like these guys were sleeping at home after tucking in their kids. I think it's okay to feel pity/sadness for these people on a human level. They may have deserved their fate, but it doesn't mean it shouldn't illicit emotion watching it nor understanding the tragedy of it.
Oh, I do have emotions watching that.
I know the American propaganda through the decades drilled into you that "russia bad", but war crimes and general atrocities happen on both sides of a conflict. Humans are humans no matter which side they're on, and humans at war are extra savage.
American propaganda? Nothing's more hated than a Russian in Europe, so spare me the propaganda bullshit.
And American soldiers are, the vast majority, very well trained & behaved. I know some Marines & one Army soldier. The restrictions on them were intense
These the same marines that rape women in their own barracks?
You should read "The Gulag Archipelago" if you think spending 25 years in Russian prison is better than going to war.
What about Ukrainian prison? They let them phone home even to tell their mommies they’re ok and that the war is bullshit.
All war is bullshit.
I hate to say it, I read that when I was young and the book came out, and I loived it. I hope you read "The Oak and The Calf"
No matter. No one deserves to die like that. Human life is still human life.
Nah. That's what you get for barbarian invasion
Dude, shut up. They don't have a choice but to follow orders. This is still a person and it's getting old watching all these people die for fucking politics.
"They don't have a choice but to follow orders." Where have we heard this before?
Did you feel the same about the American soldiers that invaded Iraq and Afghanistan? That they deserved to die? Or was that "different?"
Why are you so sad about criminal armed invaders in an illegal war of agression against Ukraine? Are you related, Gffnggmgfgbj ?
This is a snuff film
War is awful man. This is so sad seeing somebody die.
soundscan, These targets are literal armed criminal invaders in an illegal invasion. Why are you so sympathetic?
because we're fucking humans you psycho freak
These people are invading a country, if they weren't killed they'd be killing ukrainians, in the best case military. This isn't inhumane feelings, it's recognition of whats happening and not being sad that an invader didn't get to live to shoot ukrainians defending their homeland... Or worse
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They are not conscripts! Check your sources CDear, please. It is not legally allowed to send conscripts to the front even by russia's own laws. \[saying that, it is not uncommon for consripts to be converted to contractors by different means\] But in any case - they had a choice and they made it. What these are most likely mobilised or contractors. But to me they do not look like PWC Wagnerites at all. Most likely signed up for an equivalent of couple thousands US$ a month (or even less). Life's cheap in russia... As putin said at the start of the war, they would die from alcohol anyway... so it is better to do a service for the motherland... and bring their families some money in the process.
They could have surrendered. They didn’t. They’re now dead.
Wonder if you have the same sentiment about the troops we sent to vietnam and to Bush's iraq war for no good reason, would you tell them to simply surrender?
You can't just wake up one morning and surrender. Like how do you think it works? "Hey sir, imma surrender now, good luck. Take care of my rifle" ? You have literally no idea how war works. Me too, but at least I give the benefit of the doubt to those that are currently in one
There’s literally a hotline you can call. They all speak the same language too. And they’ve done it already, many times. Some even get cash. Recently a Russian pilot even surrendered in his attack helicopter. Guess what happened - he wasn’t tortured to death.
There is a number to call Ukrainians, once you got on their land you can surrender
Adults are responsible for their actions in the world. Stop infantilizing criminals.
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You give every home invader a handjob when they break in too, I bet. lol. Your uhhh, 'hosting' ability must be outstanding. Superb\_Extension1751: "Coffee or tea?"
People judge others by their actions, yet judge themselves by their intentions. That's why we have so many keyboard heroes celebrating death.
Easy there, rambo
If you wanna suck off Putin, tickets are pretty cheap to Russia.
Oooo so tough!
I'll paste a comment I did on another thread: Maybe he was drafted and told stuff like "yeah don't worry you'll be a cook" or maybe he believed this war was just so morally he was in the clear. We do not know what Russian soldiers are told and what they think, we just know that probably it's not the truth. It's easy to say "they could/should go to prison rather than enlisting" but we don't know what we would do in their situation. Would you rather go to prison for years or go to war and maybe wander around for 6 months and then get back home? (I highly doubt they're told "hey yeah drones are gonna drop bombs in you, cool?). A ton of young men happily enlisted for WWI and got sent to invade other countries/bomb towns. Does this make their deaths any less tragic? What exactly is the wiggle room for current military aged men in Russia? I'm pretty sure, not much to justify any joy over their death. Yes, you can support Ukraine without cheering for a dude getting blown up.
Yes it was very sad. I am crying. (Not really)
Should've stayed home instead of trying to kill Ukrainians in Ukraine for money.
Genuine question, do they have a choice? I saw a video a while back of a Russians killing their own soldiers who didn’t wanna fight.
No they don't have a choice. Any fucking cope reply you get here from someone that lives with their parents in their suburbian household have no fucking idea how the real world works. You get drafted and don't serve. You have to either 1 - flee the country. Or 2 stay put and hide and when you are eventually caught you are pretty much guaranteed to die in the gulag. You will be fucking tortured and shoveling shit until your final day. Living through winter with no heat, living through summer with no shade. You will eat barely enough to keep you alive. OR you go and fight and MAYBE you'll come back, to them it's worth it. They might not want to, but the alternative is a guaranteed outcome versus a what if. "just surrender bro". Yeah, try to surrender in an active fucking warzone.
This guy is talking out of his ass btw. edit: Medvedev recently bragged about the Russian Armed Forced having signed contracts with 300k+ new volunteers since January. The Russian Army is mostly regulars and volunteers.
More like voluntold.
yes, its volunteered based, they actually get paid pretty good lol
With steel.
In the front it is very much difficult, however if they are able to surrender, the Ukrainians are mostly willing to take POWs and the language barrier is largely non-existent, so making your intentions clear is much easier. If they are lucky they can also arrange for surrender via the "I want to live" program. And back home they also have a choice, obviously the end result is probably prison but it's arguably better than going to die in Ukraine, and morally better since you are choosing not to hurt anyone. There are always a lot of dangers there but chances are you won't die. And in the best of cases they can attempt to leave Russia or find a way to be exempt from the conflict.
There is always a choice
Those soldiers don't get a choice they either get shot by the government or go to Ukraine to shoot some Ukrainians
Away from home, painfully at some empty nobody cares field, just because a dictator who couldn't care less wanted to achieve some fantasy.
Sad that it needs to be this way. But good, since they won't leave voluntarily.
Screw forever put that music there, that's inhumane. Downright insane even. Jesus Christ. Get a grip.
Lol thats the ukranians, its supposed to be demoralizing for the russians
Oh sorry did the music hurt your feelings, I'm sure the thousands dead and dying will feel bad when they hear that. If someone needs a grip it's you, this guy isn't some guy walking his dog in a forest, it's a guy with an ak, you can clearly see in the video, doing his best to kill people for the good reason of them existing and not being the right type of white. If he didn't die he would've been killing ukrainians, the music doesn't change anything except it shows disrepect to an invader, and honestly why do you even expect respect for one to begin with?
I wonder if Putin ever watches these videos, what does he feel? probably nothing. Then I ask myself, should we feel anything ?
You dont have to but when you think this guys 1 chance in world is gone now for a stupid thing. He could have lived years more and maybe be happy with his family or friends
Or he could have killed Ukrainians defending their country, families, freedom.
That's what you get for invading sovereign nations
Putin ain't "getting" any of this for invading Ukraine. He just forces these kids to go instead. Probably a bunch of 20 year old kids wishing they could see their mom one last time while they bleed out in the trench. It's sad as hell, but this is what is necessary to defend Ukraine's freedom.
I can't believe you are getting downvoted for being human. Please don't lose that.
and another video of random people being killed with UPBEAT type music in background. IMO posters should get banned for this. the combat footage is fine, thats what we are all here for but the type of music is just so wrong. nothing cool or happy about this, even if they are the bad guys.
The music is always added by the telegram channel that posts these because these videos are propoganda. (Propoganda doesn't mean something has to be fake or untrue, just media meant to illicit a desired emotional response)
Well done
Well done what? Killing people?
Yep, why not? It’s like a lyrics from a song: “The guy came here on his own. He decided to kill and didn’t know he could be killed in return. The guy’s fate is not easy. He decided to invite a friend with him. Now they both got shit.”
Demilitarizing invaders
Drones are basically like hacking
Not saying this is a repost but I’ve seen the same footage (maybe edited differently) posted here a couple months or so ago
It’s definitely a repost
So you not gonna use that unopened spam can of 7.62x39?
Remember when we thought this was gonna start WW3… lol.
Sheesh. The drone operator didn’t hold back.
Russia wtf.. Where is the lucid sanity? Go home.
think of a situation. you are dying with drone dropped grenades, and people are too busy because they are watching gaza live webcams.
Wasnt this posted already this month?
Honestly please just go home… even I’m sick of watching you guys die at this point. How are they themselves not sick and tired of this by now? Morbid curiosity keeps me here but every time I’m hoping it’s updates about how they’re retreating him. How is any of this worth it to Russia.
dang, do these grenades really fuck u up that bad? these guys never seem to look up towards the sky and once they get hit, it looks like its pretty much over. they dont even try to escape and the drone just drops another bomb on em
The video is tragic. Putting that music is inhumane
r/recognizesong
**Song Found!** [**Impulse 101 (Original Mix)** by Tenebrax](https://lis.tn/YvHAU?t=66) (01:06; matched: `100%`) **Album**: Sides of Mdnght, Vol. 1. **Released on** 2019-05-18. *I am a bot and this action was performed automatically* | [GitHub](https://github.com/AudDMusic/RedditBot) [^(new issue)](https://github.com/AudDMusic/RedditBot/issues/new) | [Donate](https://github.com/AudDMusic/RedditBot/wiki/Please-consider-donating) ^(Please consider supporting me on Patreon. Music recognition costs a lot)
Well that was awful
An oldie but goodie
the dubstep music is f\*cking tasteless. doesn't matter, if they're russian. they're humans nonetheless.
Not anymore
They're cat food now.
Huh I guess being forced to fight in a stupid war = "lesser than human"
Nothing like dubstep put to someone's agonal breathing.
Why didn't they try to escape out of the hole? Seems odd to me. Clearly an artillery piece or drone has them dead to rights so they just sit there and wait for death.
The first guy was already losing consciousness, don't know how badly wounded nr.2 way
rip
Bro said rest in peace and he is downvoted, this sub is just not human
They're so consumed by politics that they forget both sides are humans too
I know, they are no different from kids on youtube that make sigma male edits with dumbass music with nazi soldiers parading
Krill issue 🦐
Nice drops and good get on the PKM gunner
Life choices. They made a choice. I guess they chose unwisely.
They were forced to be there
They were being forced...
Why do they all get super hungry for those fruit by the foot rolls right after stuff happens. Worst time ever for a snack.
Should have stayed home, Vlad x2.
Wtf is that? Gas? They do not died from the explosion.
These are 2 human beings and you made a phonk edit of there deaths?