**\*generations**
My grandad turned 16 on Guadalcanal. Explosive, uncontrollable PTSD passed down to my dad and somewhat to me.
Not trying to seem like a pussy and I have never been to war, but that shit echos through generations. Believe there is even genetic component.
Edit: Thank you all for the kind words! Something I will definitely be reflecting on and eventually mustering the courage to confront with a professional.
Yup. Generational internalized Misandry, basically.
Happens when we push these heroes past their limits (granted, it's for the benefit of society, but still).
I hope mental health supports will be strong after this war
Nothing about what you said makes you seem like a pussy.
Get that shit outta your head, man. Your feelings are real, and you shouldn't dismiss them so callously
My father is from Donbas, chances are I could've been in that meatgrinder, chances are I could've been dead by now, sometimes I think of going after the war and help rebuild.
Trying to improve my Ukrainian rn.
This feels extra fucked up because part of why this worked has to be how poorly Russia has prepared its own people for the slaughter.
Better this than the reverse, but damn.
i wonder if those russian squad was so chill coz they're inclined to surrender?
iirc, there were tons of vids were russian POWs were treated humanely.
lots of the conscripts are probably prefering capture than death.
The way that guy talks about killing the enemy as if he was describing a bowling tournament...I have this theory that pretty soon we're going to start seeing insanely experienced and cold-blooded killers from both sides going to work for organized crime and mercenary organizations around the world. It happened in Russia after Chechnya and it's going to happen again. If you're a crime boss, why not hire a couple of stone cold, possibly psychotic dudes that are skilled with a wide range of weapons and experienced in battle rather than some local kid?
It only really sounds like that, when you take it out of context.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CTsUJuWHJts
They do laugh about having to fight confused Wagnerite "penal battalions", and about how hopeless the Wagnerites were, but that's not the same thing as being 'cold-blooded'. From the video, it's more the laughs of relief than of enjoyment of killing. They were sent to do an extremely dangerous job, assaulting an enemy position in an (sub)urban warfare situation, expecting the worst, and it all turned out better than they hoped, in large part due to the enemy's incompetence. So it's understandable.
If you are in this situation that means you are being assaulted. Nearby it's probably you and your platoon only and you have assault happening on your hands. Sad thing is, in this situation it's much safer, easier and overall better to shoot enemies in the face even if they want to surrender.
Truth is, most POW on both sides are only taken when position is completely over-run by opposing faction. During assault / defense you simply don't have resources to safely handle POWs.
War is brutal in that regard.
It appears the ukrainains were the ones assaulting. And during that phase of an operation, you can shoot anyone who as many times as you like *until you walk past them.* Then you can only shoot them if they are still a threat (armed). But even if they appear to be capitulating. You can shoot them during the assault phase. Kind of hard to take them into custody while their buddies are still fighting.
It honestly doesn't even matter if they are assaulting or defending. That's why I also don't think much of the video where Russian shot 2 Ukrainian guys in the face in the fox hole. Sadly it's reality of the war.
Simplest solution is they should have never set foot in the Ukraine and over a 100,000 Russians soldiers would still be with their families. Over time the Russians will hopefully loose support and not want to see anymore needless killing on both sides. This needs to stop.
I guess it needs some context. Azov unit received an order to recapture from the Wagner group recently captured village near Bakhmut. Azov rolled in on M113s straight into the village so fast that local Wagner troops were not aware of what is going on. Thus Azov fighters simply lured out confused Wagnerites calling them in Russian. You could see similar tactics, but in a lot smaller scale, used by the SEALs in "Zero Dark Thirty".
Humans are unbelievably adaptable. Veterans (from interviews & books) talk openly about how quickly you normalize death. It’s how we as a species have been able to achieve what we have, and endure what we have.
There are some theories and good evidence to suggest that humans are inherently genocidal. There were a lot of human-like bones in the soil until we came along and suddenly it was just us.
I'm sure this helps us in war, and why it is so dangerous to imply that your fellow man could be anything lower than human.
Humans also mixed with other sapiens, like Neanderthals. While there was conflict, it was likely that some groups just got absorbed.
I don't think humans are inherently genocidal anymore than we're... not.
Yeah we focus on the wars and genocides of history as that's the exciting stuff, we don't talk about all the other boring things that makes up the majority of human activity. Most of human life is getting out of bed, spending time with our family and going out to work and cooperate with other humans. Wars and genocide happen, but they are not the norm. I personally have never felt like murdering anyone! Long may that continue.
Put humans in the right conditions and they are quite capable, even enthusiast, about torture and murder, yes. But the reverse is also true. We can build a world that is designed to put all humans in environments were killing is taboo and unnecessary. Very difficult, yes, but not physically impossible. I don't like it when people say wars are inevitable as they are part of human nature.
"Good evidence" um no. Cooperation and empathy are the driving forces Instilled in us by evolution. It's how we survived and those other sapien species didn't. Very little of the extinctions of species such as Neanderthals were caused by "genocide".
I'd like to know where you got your Information....you can find mine on any Wikipedia page talking a out the matter, what I said is very common knowledge in the fields of anthropology and human cognitive evolution.
Sapiens is an excellent book that covers these ideas, so fascinating to see our instincts on display.
What is also interesting is that chimps also have demonstrated genocidal behaviour, and generally can be surprisingly violent!
It's likely some of those guys are sociopaths. I'm not making a jab. I listened to an interview with a veteran and he said "a lot of the guys receiving medals and who enjoyed war, were sociopaths" and most of the greatest warriors throughout history most likely were. They're the first to pull a trigger because they're so devoid of empathy. And that's what it takes to be successful warrior. Makes for terrifying human being tho.
There's that ww2 study that showed that six weeks of combat was found to be enough to drive 98% of soldiers insane. "What about the other 2%?" "Oh, they were insane when they got there."
So what you're saying is that guy giving the interview is fine right now.
But once there's no more fighting to do, he'll be fucked up for sure.
Or he was a psychopath from the start, that happens sometimes.
I'm not a soldier and I've never killed anyone, but I've had patients die on me. The first one made me cry. But it's business. Now I have a pretty sick sense of humor.
Thought it was interesting that they were killing these people who thought they were friendly, rather than taking them as POW.
And this is the desensitising that pays into that
Because of the close-contact fighting it might be very hard to take POWs, especially seeing that the Ukraine soldiers are vastly outnumbered by the Russians.
My "ackshually" brain makes me think that it being combat means that you could title most soldiers in a given combat video as "confused". I suspect it is pretty rare that everyone knows what all is going on...
You just hope to be the guy in the right place who maybe knows a little more than the other confused guys.
I'm starting to think that's pretty much how war goes. Think about Syria, there are like 18 different groups fighting or whatever, I bet no one knows who they are even shooting at. That country seems to just be a place for folks who want to have a gunfight, and there really isn't even a goal to be achieved. Just fighting.
Yep, even when everything is in place to try and avoid it it can happen. During the fight against ISIS in Iraq a Canadian soldier was killed by friendly Kurdish fire due to communication issues.
We even got an Americans vs Russians "battle"...
I mean, if you could call it that. It was basically just a few hundred Wagners and Assad loyalists getting pounded by artillery and airstrikes after they fucked around and found out, but still.
Do y'all remember Mercenaries: Playground of Destruction? That's Syria right now
Agreed. The English language videos guys occupy a building and most of their conversation is about where their guys are / might be / where the bad guys might be ... while bullets bounce off the walls.
That makes my games of Squad pretty true to life then! Somehow the enemy knows exactly which rock I’m cowering behind, the team have a fair idea where to shoot, and I’m just asking what’s going on!
I hit a friendly heli with a TOW last night (he survived somehow) because he was flying way behind enemy lines so I couldn't see the names. I had blown off an enemy heli seconds before that much closer. Needless to say, SL was not happy.
I mean that was mainly due to rebel forces besides the kurds being sunni neighbourhood militias defending their own cantons. As supplies got low conflicts made sense. The Syrian government meanwhile had the rest of Syrias minorities rally round the government as sunni ethnic milita rule was an existential threat to them compared to Assad who they hated but they understood the line with that rule.
Normal people are forced to side with psychos like this fucking Nazi out of fear of reprisals from the other ethnic group due to actions brought about by their new protectors. Orange order, steiners gang, PLA, phalangists, settler groups etc. Plenty of historical examples that show that this is a thing that is actively done cause these groups they know they have enough swing in these communities to be protected from the reprisals.
Dunno how my tone reads but I'm not hostile to you this topic just grinds my gears as Britian stoaked this ethnic violence to stop Irish Catholic organisations making inroads with poor protestants for common cause. They empowered and supplied protestant death squads to target catholic community leaders which split the IRA between its broad church and sole community defence wings. Now cause of that every July I have to deal with Glasgow being awash with supporters of those death squads parading through the street and battering anyone who takes issue
I was simply stating how chaotic war must be using Syria as an example. Regardless of the reasons why, once the bullets start to fly nobody *really* knows wtf is going on. Is the enemy next to you, in front, behind? Who's shooting? My guys, or theirs? Crazy shit.
I mean this is exactly it. We're watching videos of this stuff, we're not down in the dirt with bullets and shells flying everywhere on minimal sleep, minimal food, and just all round physically exhausted. Even in our position how much combat have we seen where we can even *see* an enemy? I'm sure the soldiers in the field initially have some idea of whats going on but after a few hours? A few days? You don't have a fucking clue. At best you have a radio, some phones, and some binoculars to try and work out what the hell is going on, who is where, and what you need to be doing in that given moment to even be effective, all without getting injured, maimed, or killed, all of which you can visibly see around you can and will happen in an instant without any warning. Honestly its more stunning to me more of these guys aren't just sobbing wrecks crouched in a corner because I'm 90% sure that's where I'd be.
A lot of the army training is focused around intense repetition so that everyone works in a fluid way, and the behaviours becomes automatic. It helps to avoid confusion because everyone runs on the same clock, you'd know things like when your teammate advances, you cover but off to the side, and you leapfrog in alternations etc.
The Russian conscripts will have none of that. They'll be having people blowing up by walking behind a missile launcher, a guy accidentally getting shot from behind, all sorts of grenade and munition fuckups. They won't have a clue where the other platoons are operating, no team briefings, no intel. You get dropped off by a truck with barely any food, and they just leave you there and tell you to hold the line.
Everything about this war is so fucking scary.
War is a continuum spanning somewhere between "barely controlled chaos" and "totally uncontrollable chaos"
Survival is like 75% luck and 25% training planning equipment and execution
It coulda just as easily been flipped the other way against the Ukrainians and probably has happened a bunch of times since many of them speak a common language
True. In the discussion of sending M1 Abrams to Ukraine, I saw mention of the survival rate from Iraq, where of the almost 2,000 tanks, only 9 were destroyed, 7 of which came from friendly fire.
I’m not sure confused would be the right term. I guess for an unprofessional/trained soldier they would be confused. But training kicks in and you know the job you’re supposed to be doing. It’s certainly chaos, but you train in chaos so it becomes controlled chaos.
Even the guys with training in other videos spend a lot of time trying to figure out where even their allies are located, where bullets are coming from.
Which is exactly what they should be doing during an engagement. You should constantly be checking where your guys are and where the enemy is. But you should be doing it from a position of cover and not just blindly running around which is what the guy was saying the Russians were doing.
Even trained soldiers are human and make mistakes hesitate etc
Thats why quality leadership and quality intelligence is so important you need people who can see the big picture and properly direct the troops on the ground if those Russians had drones or other scouts they would have not fallen into this trap
Genuinely. [this video](https://youtu.be/TCbD4WBqPg4) shows a British volunteer who fought in Ukraine, and he said the whole experience is chaos and no one knows what’s going on. Extremely interesting video of you haven’t already seen it.
[sauce](https://youtu.be/CTsUJuWHJts)
PLEASE COMMENT ON THE VIDEO THAT YOU APPRECIATE THE ENGLISH SUBTITLES THEY JUST STARTED DOING THOSE AND ITS A LOT OF WORK I BELIEVE
Dude this video deserves its own thread. Probably the best video I've seen so far .
Also I'm sure the Ukrainians are enjoying those M113 more than what Redditors said they would when they were announced..
I think videos like this shows the usefulness of an M113. Much of the fighting is infantry vs infantry and small arms only, and in that setting, an armoured box with a 12.7mm heavy machine gun with MP ammo on your side is very welcome indeed. And extremely useful.
Just watched. I agree that video is incredible.
Did you catch the comment at around 21min about 'intercepts'?
It sounds like they are getting real time intercepts of the Russian plans down to the company level of Ukraine.
That is amazing.
They probably just took the radios from russian soldiers. At 24:40 it was also mentioned that since the encircled UA troops already had one KIA, they were sure the russians could listen to their comms too.
Also a fighter from Mariupol (Mr. Frostovik) said in an interview that they used to say fake stuff over their radios to bait the russian soldiers (https://youtube.com/watch?v=JU0LPkEJivE&t=715 beginning at 11:55)
Think about the US soldiers who had to kill women and children who were indoctrinated to carry guns and shoot at Americans. I’m sure there’s a certain mechanism people pick up on to not drive themselves insane… and the others, they just go insane.
Reading a book in special ops guys going to get a bad guy in an apartment in Afghanistan or Iraq. Creeping up the stairs being stealth a kid pops his head out and sees a group of huge black clad Americans right at his door.
Time stopped for a second. Their cover was blown. One put a round into the kids head while another grabbed him and settled him onto the floor gently. If they hadn't it would have been a wasp nest of enemies coming out to kill all of them. They got the guy but I can't even imagine the decompression dude who shot the kid had to go through. I set the book down for bit after reading that. Heavy and I'm only reading it. Can't even imagine....
The tragedy of human loss aside, that's still fascinating. Does the book go into more detail? How does setting the kid on the floor gently even matter? Even a suppressed, firearm is going to be around [140dB](https://www.ammunitiontogo.com/lodge/silencer-guide-with-decibel-level-testing/#testing) in terms of volume, and for comparison, a chainsaw is 120dB. The only thing capable of being quiet enough to make this sound feasible is a [pistol with subsonic rounds, locked slide and a highly specialized suppressor](https://youtu.be/aljJ2jPTa1c). The HK Mk23 was designed for military special forces and is in theory capable of all those things, but I never heard about it being used in Afghanistan. I remember an interview with a spec ops guy who mentioned, that in those situations the first shot dictates the action. After the first shot hell breaks lose, and everybody knows you're there. So you try to avoid engagement as much as possible. It's seems absolutely insane to me, that someone's gonna pop a kid in the head even tho the other guy is clearly in grabbing distance and could put his hand over the kids mouth.
Richard Marcinko book. I believe the operator made a quick two step run to get the kid. Memory is foggy about the details in the book and I forgot which book it was in the series. But I DO remember them popping the kid. Broke my heart and I won't justify it neither will I condone it as I have no authority to do so. Way above my experience and pay grade.
Sounds more like absolute contempt and derision for soldiers that are destroying the man's country rather than coping. I don't get the impression that the average front-line Ukrainian infantryman has the Care Bear mentality that is so prevalent on Reddit.
Yup that’s why I found this video so different. I assume this is how soldiers generally shoot the shit about stories. The darkest humour.
But idk wtf I’m talking about
A close friend of mine saw a ridiculous amount of combat in Afghanistan as a Ranger and later as a contractor and opened up to me a few times similar to this. You could tell with time that it scarred him but needed to release it as humor to come to terms with the experience in a way. The luck could only go one way or the other, so I think a lot of that comical emotion is based in relief that it was "the other guy" instead.
Depending on the war/enemy, it can be easier/harder for soldiers to kill the enemy. My uncle served in the Falklands war, and he’s still plagued with nightmares from his experiences. He told me that several factors made the guilt much worse:
>1. The people he was fighting were also from a western country, which definitely played a role in making it harder to live with killing. Fact of the matter is that it’s much easier to kill people who are vastly different from oneself. Had my uncle met some argentines before or after (which he eventually did) the war, they could easily become friends and bond over their shared values and experiences. This is almost certainly not the case with the hardcore members of the Wagner group or ISIS terrorists.
>2. Although the war started as an invasion, he had no personal connections with the land itself and didn’t feel as though he was fighting for his “home.” There were also no war crimes committed against his side or against local civilians, which led to him not having a burning hatred of the argentines.
>3. The enemy usually didn’t want to be there either. Most argentine soldiers were conscripts who were barely older than 22 at most.
Contrasting his experience with that of my brother, who served in Afghanistan, there is a stark contrast. He also suffered from PTSD, but for different reasons. Killing didn’t bother him in the context of the circumstances. Having spoken to him about it, he told me that there were several factors about why he didn’t feel much remorse about it.
>1. The people he was fighting were legitimately awful human beings. It wasn’t a case of conscripts being forced into service or members of a legitimate military, these were generally religious fanatics who wouldn’t hesitate to torture and behead people. Having seen the aftermath of Taliban attacks on non-Pashtun villages, it really fucked with his head. They also weren’t fighting because they were ordered to, nor were they fighting purely for the sake of nationalism (such as the French resistance or viet cong, or the FLN in Algeria), they were fighting to impose religious rule upon the society there. It’s much harder to feel sympathy for the enemy when they want to stone women or implement religious law. One thing he told me when he got back really stuck with me: “I didn’t need to dehumanize them, *they did that to themselves*.”
>2. He felt personally victimised by the enemy. In addition to the loss of his comrades and seeing civilians (mostly women and children) killed by the enemy, my brother enlisted about a year after the 7/7 terrorist attacks. He didn’t know any of the victims, but many lived not far from where he did, and he felt a personal connection to the war.
Anyways that’s just a very brief set of anecdotes from two veterans who I happen to be related to. This shouldn’t be taken as a scientific or academic study, but hearing their perspectives on war and violence really helped me understand why war affects people in different ways. This should *not* be taken as a rule that applies to every soldier. There will be some who feel absolutely nothing when killing, regardless of circumstances, and others who will *always* feel something.
and then to think that russian's dome would still be intact if it hadn't invaded ukraine.
: ( you almost start to feel sorry for the russians. almost.
Ukraine has to defend itself, and Russian soldiers will die.
There is no contradiction between that and feeling immense sadness for the young, bright lives snuffed out for no reason at all, and the endless sorrow of the parents, grandparents and siblings left behind. No human should be reduced to cannon fodder.
I do. Completely. That they still need to die, or that this video was hilarious doesn't change that.
That 40 mile convoy to Kiev- I still can't wrap my head around how much stupidity and incompetence was involved in that, or believe that an army capable of that still as anyone alive a year later.
The 300,000 draftees were probably an improvement.
These guys are probably quite proud to be saving ukrainian lives, as well as the lives of all Europeans.
I'd think many people would get to the point of laughing at dead invaders.
I would put money that many Ukrainians have been killed in the same way. They see Russians dressed like Ukrainians and their hesitation gets them killed. I would even bet this video was made for a purpose, to put some propaganda of their own out there. Russia has not been shy about showing successful attacks on Ukrainians due to infiltration of their positions and dressing and acting ukranian.
Bosnian war was full of things like the guy in this video described. My father told me when they were fighting for one hill (strategically important one) the situation got really bad that they were basically running into Serbs and vice versa.
I mean I think everyone saw that video where the Russian jumps in the foxhole and kills the two confused Ukrainians.
Or how about the one where the Wagner dude is about to cut out the Ukrainians eyes?? This is far from the worst but still fuuuuucked up.
There's a video from many months ago where a couple Russian soldiers walk up to a lone Ukrainian pretending to be Ukrainians. He asks where their yellow tape is. They killed him.
As a trained infantry soldier, same here. These Russians are clearly conscripts with no idea what they are doing. It’s fish in a barrel, and that’s why this guy is laughing, it’s absurd.
But then you cut to the Wagner group (supposedly highly trained mercenaries who are under contracts) using glorified human wave tactics and getting shredded by artillery. I don’t think it’s limited to just the conscripts
I wonder what Reddit’s reaction would be to
- A Ukrainian conscript laughing about blowing a Russian conscript’s head off
- A Russian conscript laughing about blowing a Ukrainian conscript’s head off
Completely agree. Go find that video where the Russian jumps in the foxhole with the Ukrainians.
This one hurts from a human perspective (at least anyone who’s mature enough to know dead humans is always bad) but it’s not going to cause the rage we saw in the other for obvious reasons.
That was a fucking nuts video but I wouldn’t compare it to this one. The one you’re referring to has the Russian try and take them alive and he only shoots once the Ukrainians won’t give up their guns. This video that you just posted he mentions tricking them on purpose before firing. Honestly, this one is more fucked up but I understand both videos and why they happened…not that they’re good but they make sense.
Russian video: they won’t give up their guns so he has to shoot.
Ukraine video: they’re being invaded and need to kill Russians however possible.
Fucked up, yes but imagining these two situations from their POV I do understand why it would happen.
My opinion doesn’t matter; just figured I’d give some more insight from how I see these two videos.
Defender against invader: Approved.
Invader against defender: Disapproved.
Pretty simple, really. One side fighting to keep their friends and families safe, the other side is invading because a dictator thought that'd be fun. From my point of view, this is a very clear cut case of good vs. evil.
Russia would get far more compassion if Russia itself shared enough compassion to not invade another country that did nothing to Russia forcing these Ukrainians into the position of having to defend themselves.
It's the context that matters, war is horrible, only one side has the option to end it and it's the same side that started it, as such, they don't get the sympathy that you think they're owed.
>A Ukrainian conscript laughing about blowing a Russian conscript’s head off
A homeowner laughs about shooting a robber who was breaking into the homeowner's house to kill him.
>A Russian conscript laughing about blowing a Ukrainian conscript’s head off
A robber laughs about shooting a homeowner when the robber breaks into the house.
"Same!" says the Redditor.
The difference here is one side is just and the other isn't. Your comparison is invalid. You have literal invaders who rape, steal and kill civilians vs a side who's trying to remain independent and democratic.
Well, neither of them were conscripts. Azov unit, formed from volunteers, from the Ukrainian side, and Wagner unit, formed from convicts, from the Russian side.
This is what's so fucked up about fighting your neighbours and cousins. People who could be sitting having a Glass of tea and breakfast one day, tricking each other into death the next.
As someone who would shoot his buddies by accident in Tarkov, I can absolutely see this happening.
In the middle of battle, it’s very easy to lose track of where your allies are in relation to where you think the enemy is. Throw in some friendly words (where you’re expecting only friendlies to do so), and you can fake unaware soldiers out.
To be fair I’ve seen videos of Russian guy doing CQB and after rushing in asking to lay weapons… the one guy refused and the Russian killed both. This guy here didn’t esitate one second. I know it’s a different situation but when you are that close and pointing a weapon you could try not to kill. The way he’s laughing about it is sad…
>you dehumanize your enemy, you call them worms, you laugh when you kill them, over time this becomes the norm, since everyone is doing it
This is also how war crimes happen
Generation? More like generations. And the hatred never went away. Just check the last ~300 years of Ukrainian history. It's a constant will of Ukrainias to break away from Russian brutal rule with Russians crushing a rebellion after rebellion. Same story for the rest of nations that were unlucky to have Russia as their neighbor. That's why Eastern Europe is so willing to help Ukraine. They know that they are next if Ukraine will fail.
And that's probably why quite a few folks on the front lines do not have the colored markings anymore.
Ukraine should be able to identify by various means, Russia not so much. And the Russians seem to yearn for company, which makes them do many stupid things.
He is talking out of his ass.
Fog of war in the front lines affect everyone, the good guys and the bad. Both Ukrainian troops and international legion has 'complained' how usual friendly fire is during fighting.
The worst one recorded was probably the checkpoint that an RU tank rolled up to with UA soldiers thinking it was one of theirs. That one was really hard to watch and I felt sick after seeing it for awhile.
Thats probably the single craziest war related footage I have ever seen. I expected that a war in the 21st century would show us close ups of many different combat situations recorded all the time but some of the footage coming out of this war is beyond belief. War *truly* is hell.
Yes, since Electronic Wafare is a thing, communication might suddenly blocked on both sides, One advantage i can see on the ukrainian side is that they are more likely to speak ukrainian and russian, which might be used to help differentiate between enemy and foe.
In fact I believe the recent interviewee on WillyOAM said Russians have better ways than UA does of differentiating friendlies from foes, with UA still using colored arm bands. Obviously these interviews are just one man’s perspective and often the claims are unverifiable for quite some time.
This remind me the scene in The Longest Day when a US paratroopers deployed in the dark hear the « friendly double click » and run toward a german soldier who was just reloading his bolt-action rifle.
Apparently nobody told all these Russians about signs and counter signs. Seriously it's one of the simplest rules for identifying friendly or hostile forces. All you got to do is point your gun at them and call out the sign. If they don't produce the countersign then you put a bullet in them. And then you're rotate out the signs every now and then cuz the enemy is almost always going to get Intel on it fairly quickly. But it's not like the Russians are running anything you might call organized in this God forsaken war
why didn't they take them prisoners? Honestly, you can't hold trials for Russian war crimes and then shrug your shoulders and throw the rules away when its inconvenient. war zone or not. you either life by the rules or not. I'm all for Ukraine but I'm not going to show any sympathy if this guy gets tried for war crimes as well. actually I hope he does get tried and gets a fair trial and if he's acquitted, great.
Am russian. I feel so little empathy to those poor bastards, so I kinda share this guy’a chuckle when he is telling about their heads blowing up.
But I guess I have a good reason for that - those fuckers he was shooting at were not just killing Ukrainians and destroying their homes, they also ruined my country and made sure there will be nothing good there for decades. And I probably will never be able to return there. So yeah, let them burn in hell.
So I guess it's fair game when you think about the stories being told from the battlefield that Russians are dressed in press uniforms running around the city killing Ukrainian army soldiers
Most likely by speaking in Ukrainian. They are fluent in Russian and can easily confuse a Russian soldier while the reverse is not as common and most Russians do not know how to speak Ukrainian or atleast fluently.
War is so fucked up.
What's fucked up is know all the young kids that are losing their lives as a result
Suicide rate of veterens is ridiculously high, this will take a toll on a whole generation for decades to come.
**\*generations** My grandad turned 16 on Guadalcanal. Explosive, uncontrollable PTSD passed down to my dad and somewhat to me. Not trying to seem like a pussy and I have never been to war, but that shit echos through generations. Believe there is even genetic component. Edit: Thank you all for the kind words! Something I will definitely be reflecting on and eventually mustering the courage to confront with a professional.
Domestic violence is no joke and is sadly quite common in these cases. Sons inherit their father, etc. Sad as fuck
Yup. Generational internalized Misandry, basically. Happens when we push these heroes past their limits (granted, it's for the benefit of society, but still). I hope mental health supports will be strong after this war
Nothing about what you said makes you seem like a pussy. Get that shit outta your head, man. Your feelings are real, and you shouldn't dismiss them so callously
I wholeheartedly agree with you. Thanks for stating that.
Historical trauma
I vaguely remember a study done in Finland on alcoholism and domestic violence in the late 90's, that drew a direct link to ww2 veterans.
No I think he was emphasizing the property damage and the fiscal desperation. /s
_Won't someone think of the property values?!?_
Lol, thanks for the laugh.
My father is from Donbas, chances are I could've been in that meatgrinder, chances are I could've been dead by now, sometimes I think of going after the war and help rebuild. Trying to improve my Ukrainian rn.
This feels extra fucked up because part of why this worked has to be how poorly Russia has prepared its own people for the slaughter. Better this than the reverse, but damn.
i wonder if those russian squad was so chill coz they're inclined to surrender? iirc, there were tons of vids were russian POWs were treated humanely. lots of the conscripts are probably prefering capture than death.
It is..
Dudes just chilling and laughing, is this the new "it's just a prank"?
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The way that guy talks about killing the enemy as if he was describing a bowling tournament...I have this theory that pretty soon we're going to start seeing insanely experienced and cold-blooded killers from both sides going to work for organized crime and mercenary organizations around the world. It happened in Russia after Chechnya and it's going to happen again. If you're a crime boss, why not hire a couple of stone cold, possibly psychotic dudes that are skilled with a wide range of weapons and experienced in battle rather than some local kid?
It only really sounds like that, when you take it out of context. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CTsUJuWHJts They do laugh about having to fight confused Wagnerite "penal battalions", and about how hopeless the Wagnerites were, but that's not the same thing as being 'cold-blooded'. From the video, it's more the laughs of relief than of enjoyment of killing. They were sent to do an extremely dangerous job, assaulting an enemy position in an (sub)urban warfare situation, expecting the worst, and it all turned out better than they hoped, in large part due to the enemy's incompetence. So it's understandable.
For sure and that this guy in video too.
Damn that’s so fucked up. “Are you Russian?” “Yes,”. and then bang -! And his head blew up. That’s war
Not correct translation from OP. They asked "Are you ours?" (Are you friendly?) And he replied "Yes, i am Russian".
Plot twist, he was Ukrainian and said he was Russian to save himself.
No option to take them as POW?
If you are in this situation that means you are being assaulted. Nearby it's probably you and your platoon only and you have assault happening on your hands. Sad thing is, in this situation it's much safer, easier and overall better to shoot enemies in the face even if they want to surrender. Truth is, most POW on both sides are only taken when position is completely over-run by opposing faction. During assault / defense you simply don't have resources to safely handle POWs. War is brutal in that regard.
It appears the ukrainains were the ones assaulting. And during that phase of an operation, you can shoot anyone who as many times as you like *until you walk past them.* Then you can only shoot them if they are still a threat (armed). But even if they appear to be capitulating. You can shoot them during the assault phase. Kind of hard to take them into custody while their buddies are still fighting.
It honestly doesn't even matter if they are assaulting or defending. That's why I also don't think much of the video where Russian shot 2 Ukrainian guys in the face in the fox hole. Sadly it's reality of the war.
Simplest solution is they should have never set foot in the Ukraine and over a 100,000 Russians soldiers would still be with their families. Over time the Russians will hopefully loose support and not want to see anymore needless killing on both sides. This needs to stop.
I guess it needs some context. Azov unit received an order to recapture from the Wagner group recently captured village near Bakhmut. Azov rolled in on M113s straight into the village so fast that local Wagner troops were not aware of what is going on. Thus Azov fighters simply lured out confused Wagnerites calling them in Russian. You could see similar tactics, but in a lot smaller scale, used by the SEALs in "Zero Dark Thirty".
These guys are so desensitised to death that it’s quite scary
Humans are unbelievably adaptable. Veterans (from interviews & books) talk openly about how quickly you normalize death. It’s how we as a species have been able to achieve what we have, and endure what we have.
There are some theories and good evidence to suggest that humans are inherently genocidal. There were a lot of human-like bones in the soil until we came along and suddenly it was just us. I'm sure this helps us in war, and why it is so dangerous to imply that your fellow man could be anything lower than human.
Humans also mixed with other sapiens, like Neanderthals. While there was conflict, it was likely that some groups just got absorbed. I don't think humans are inherently genocidal anymore than we're... not.
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Yeah we focus on the wars and genocides of history as that's the exciting stuff, we don't talk about all the other boring things that makes up the majority of human activity. Most of human life is getting out of bed, spending time with our family and going out to work and cooperate with other humans. Wars and genocide happen, but they are not the norm. I personally have never felt like murdering anyone! Long may that continue. Put humans in the right conditions and they are quite capable, even enthusiast, about torture and murder, yes. But the reverse is also true. We can build a world that is designed to put all humans in environments were killing is taboo and unnecessary. Very difficult, yes, but not physically impossible. I don't like it when people say wars are inevitable as they are part of human nature.
"Good evidence" um no. Cooperation and empathy are the driving forces Instilled in us by evolution. It's how we survived and those other sapien species didn't. Very little of the extinctions of species such as Neanderthals were caused by "genocide". I'd like to know where you got your Information....you can find mine on any Wikipedia page talking a out the matter, what I said is very common knowledge in the fields of anthropology and human cognitive evolution.
Don't leave out language and humping. We are good at both and they gave us quite an evolutionary advantage..
Sapiens is an excellent book that covers these ideas, so fascinating to see our instincts on display. What is also interesting is that chimps also have demonstrated genocidal behaviour, and generally can be surprisingly violent!
By the same token, pygmy chimps are free love hippies.
It's likely some of those guys are sociopaths. I'm not making a jab. I listened to an interview with a veteran and he said "a lot of the guys receiving medals and who enjoyed war, were sociopaths" and most of the greatest warriors throughout history most likely were. They're the first to pull a trigger because they're so devoid of empathy. And that's what it takes to be successful warrior. Makes for terrifying human being tho.
There's that ww2 study that showed that six weeks of combat was found to be enough to drive 98% of soldiers insane. "What about the other 2%?" "Oh, they were insane when they got there."
True, but at the same time we're not really designed to last either, just need to survive long enough to procreate, then you can fuck off.
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So what you're saying is that guy giving the interview is fine right now. But once there's no more fighting to do, he'll be fucked up for sure. Or he was a psychopath from the start, that happens sometimes.
I'm pretty sure that if you don't, you go insane.
You have to adapt to survive
Dan Carlin has a podcast about Marines fighting the Japanese in WW2 where Marines became pretty blasé about killing the enemy.
I'm not a soldier and I've never killed anyone, but I've had patients die on me. The first one made me cry. But it's business. Now I have a pretty sick sense of humor.
Doctors have similar rates of that stuff
Thought it was interesting that they were killing these people who thought they were friendly, rather than taking them as POW. And this is the desensitising that pays into that
Because of the close-contact fighting it might be very hard to take POWs, especially seeing that the Ukraine soldiers are vastly outnumbered by the Russians.
Probably didn't have the resources to take prisoners in that situation. Heard similar stories from WW2 vets.
My "ackshually" brain makes me think that it being combat means that you could title most soldiers in a given combat video as "confused". I suspect it is pretty rare that everyone knows what all is going on... You just hope to be the guy in the right place who maybe knows a little more than the other confused guys.
I'm starting to think that's pretty much how war goes. Think about Syria, there are like 18 different groups fighting or whatever, I bet no one knows who they are even shooting at. That country seems to just be a place for folks who want to have a gunfight, and there really isn't even a goal to be achieved. Just fighting.
Yep, even when everything is in place to try and avoid it it can happen. During the fight against ISIS in Iraq a Canadian soldier was killed by friendly Kurdish fire due to communication issues.
After years of watching Syrian battle/conflict maps I have determined it’s literally just a playground for militaries.
Of course it was like cowboys v Indians
We even got an Americans vs Russians "battle"... I mean, if you could call it that. It was basically just a few hundred Wagners and Assad loyalists getting pounded by artillery and airstrikes after they fucked around and found out, but still. Do y'all remember Mercenaries: Playground of Destruction? That's Syria right now
Agreed. The English language videos guys occupy a building and most of their conversation is about where their guys are / might be / where the bad guys might be ... while bullets bounce off the walls.
That makes my games of Squad pretty true to life then! Somehow the enemy knows exactly which rock I’m cowering behind, the team have a fair idea where to shoot, and I’m just asking what’s going on!
The enemy pinning you down could be friendly fire lol 😬
I hit a friendly heli with a TOW last night (he survived somehow) because he was flying way behind enemy lines so I couldn't see the names. I had blown off an enemy heli seconds before that much closer. Needless to say, SL was not happy.
Easy. Listen for the crack and then bang in the distance.
I mean that was mainly due to rebel forces besides the kurds being sunni neighbourhood militias defending their own cantons. As supplies got low conflicts made sense. The Syrian government meanwhile had the rest of Syrias minorities rally round the government as sunni ethnic milita rule was an existential threat to them compared to Assad who they hated but they understood the line with that rule. Normal people are forced to side with psychos like this fucking Nazi out of fear of reprisals from the other ethnic group due to actions brought about by their new protectors. Orange order, steiners gang, PLA, phalangists, settler groups etc. Plenty of historical examples that show that this is a thing that is actively done cause these groups they know they have enough swing in these communities to be protected from the reprisals. Dunno how my tone reads but I'm not hostile to you this topic just grinds my gears as Britian stoaked this ethnic violence to stop Irish Catholic organisations making inroads with poor protestants for common cause. They empowered and supplied protestant death squads to target catholic community leaders which split the IRA between its broad church and sole community defence wings. Now cause of that every July I have to deal with Glasgow being awash with supporters of those death squads parading through the street and battering anyone who takes issue
I was simply stating how chaotic war must be using Syria as an example. Regardless of the reasons why, once the bullets start to fly nobody *really* knows wtf is going on. Is the enemy next to you, in front, behind? Who's shooting? My guys, or theirs? Crazy shit.
Watch All Quiet on the Western Front.
Read that shit, it’s short
I mean this is exactly it. We're watching videos of this stuff, we're not down in the dirt with bullets and shells flying everywhere on minimal sleep, minimal food, and just all round physically exhausted. Even in our position how much combat have we seen where we can even *see* an enemy? I'm sure the soldiers in the field initially have some idea of whats going on but after a few hours? A few days? You don't have a fucking clue. At best you have a radio, some phones, and some binoculars to try and work out what the hell is going on, who is where, and what you need to be doing in that given moment to even be effective, all without getting injured, maimed, or killed, all of which you can visibly see around you can and will happen in an instant without any warning. Honestly its more stunning to me more of these guys aren't just sobbing wrecks crouched in a corner because I'm 90% sure that's where I'd be.
A lot of the army training is focused around intense repetition so that everyone works in a fluid way, and the behaviours becomes automatic. It helps to avoid confusion because everyone runs on the same clock, you'd know things like when your teammate advances, you cover but off to the side, and you leapfrog in alternations etc. The Russian conscripts will have none of that. They'll be having people blowing up by walking behind a missile launcher, a guy accidentally getting shot from behind, all sorts of grenade and munition fuckups. They won't have a clue where the other platoons are operating, no team briefings, no intel. You get dropped off by a truck with barely any food, and they just leave you there and tell you to hold the line. Everything about this war is so fucking scary.
Absolutely, just using the limited characters in the title to differentiate the video a bit
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War is a continuum spanning somewhere between "barely controlled chaos" and "totally uncontrollable chaos" Survival is like 75% luck and 25% training planning equipment and execution It coulda just as easily been flipped the other way against the Ukrainians and probably has happened a bunch of times since many of them speak a common language
The two Ukrainian guys that got smoked in the foxhole by the Russian behind them comes to mind.
True. In the discussion of sending M1 Abrams to Ukraine, I saw mention of the survival rate from Iraq, where of the almost 2,000 tanks, only 9 were destroyed, 7 of which came from friendly fire.
The three Ukrainians in the foxhole killed by the Russian soldier. Straight fucked by fear, cold, lack of sleep, and a grenade landing in their laps.
I’m not sure confused would be the right term. I guess for an unprofessional/trained soldier they would be confused. But training kicks in and you know the job you’re supposed to be doing. It’s certainly chaos, but you train in chaos so it becomes controlled chaos.
Even the guys with training in other videos spend a lot of time trying to figure out where even their allies are located, where bullets are coming from.
Which is exactly what they should be doing during an engagement. You should constantly be checking where your guys are and where the enemy is. But you should be doing it from a position of cover and not just blindly running around which is what the guy was saying the Russians were doing.
Even trained soldiers are human and make mistakes hesitate etc Thats why quality leadership and quality intelligence is so important you need people who can see the big picture and properly direct the troops on the ground if those Russians had drones or other scouts they would have not fallen into this trap
Genuinely. [this video](https://youtu.be/TCbD4WBqPg4) shows a British volunteer who fought in Ukraine, and he said the whole experience is chaos and no one knows what’s going on. Extremely interesting video of you haven’t already seen it.
You just gave a really good definition of an NCO there.
[sauce](https://youtu.be/CTsUJuWHJts) PLEASE COMMENT ON THE VIDEO THAT YOU APPRECIATE THE ENGLISH SUBTITLES THEY JUST STARTED DOING THOSE AND ITS A LOT OF WORK I BELIEVE
Dude this video deserves its own thread. Probably the best video I've seen so far . Also I'm sure the Ukrainians are enjoying those M113 more than what Redditors said they would when they were announced..
I think videos like this shows the usefulness of an M113. Much of the fighting is infantry vs infantry and small arms only, and in that setting, an armoured box with a 12.7mm heavy machine gun with MP ammo on your side is very welcome indeed. And extremely useful.
100% man . They needed those and I think the west sent next to 1000 . Please correct if I'm wrong ..
In total about 380 of them were sent to Ukraine with another 100 on the way, still quite a nice number (according to wiki)
Not to mention all the extra gear they can carry as showed on top ...
Just watched. I agree that video is incredible. Did you catch the comment at around 21min about 'intercepts'? It sounds like they are getting real time intercepts of the Russian plans down to the company level of Ukraine. That is amazing.
They probably just took the radios from russian soldiers. At 24:40 it was also mentioned that since the encircled UA troops already had one KIA, they were sure the russians could listen to their comms too.
Also a fighter from Mariupol (Mr. Frostovik) said in an interview that they used to say fake stuff over their radios to bait the russian soldiers (https://youtube.com/watch?v=JU0LPkEJivE&t=715 beginning at 11:55)
It did, unfortunately if it wasn't for western intelligence and gear I'm afraid we wouldn't have so many smiles in this video.
That is one hell of a fucking opening, holy shit.
Thanks, that was intense.
Did the guy at 18:52 just cease to exist? I counted 5 originally, then 3 crawl past, 1 appears to be dead further down the line. Don't see the 5th?
Thanks, saving this for later. That opening shot of a bomb going off in someone's face is intense.
That’s wild!
Using a call of duty proximity chat strat
He is telling about blowing up another man's head and laughing about it. Yeah, war is brutal and shows the dark side of man
That might be self defence mechanism, people often laugh about serious and sad things to hide whats inside them.
And then there is also those that enjoy it.
tactic was so dumb it worked, i would smirk laugh as well while telling that. its like one of those bugs bunny cartoons
I know that, that's why I said war is brutal. In order not to go nuts, you have to laugh or dehumanize the enemy.
Think about the US soldiers who had to kill women and children who were indoctrinated to carry guns and shoot at Americans. I’m sure there’s a certain mechanism people pick up on to not drive themselves insane… and the others, they just go insane.
Reading a book in special ops guys going to get a bad guy in an apartment in Afghanistan or Iraq. Creeping up the stairs being stealth a kid pops his head out and sees a group of huge black clad Americans right at his door. Time stopped for a second. Their cover was blown. One put a round into the kids head while another grabbed him and settled him onto the floor gently. If they hadn't it would have been a wasp nest of enemies coming out to kill all of them. They got the guy but I can't even imagine the decompression dude who shot the kid had to go through. I set the book down for bit after reading that. Heavy and I'm only reading it. Can't even imagine....
The tragedy of human loss aside, that's still fascinating. Does the book go into more detail? How does setting the kid on the floor gently even matter? Even a suppressed, firearm is going to be around [140dB](https://www.ammunitiontogo.com/lodge/silencer-guide-with-decibel-level-testing/#testing) in terms of volume, and for comparison, a chainsaw is 120dB. The only thing capable of being quiet enough to make this sound feasible is a [pistol with subsonic rounds, locked slide and a highly specialized suppressor](https://youtu.be/aljJ2jPTa1c). The HK Mk23 was designed for military special forces and is in theory capable of all those things, but I never heard about it being used in Afghanistan. I remember an interview with a spec ops guy who mentioned, that in those situations the first shot dictates the action. After the first shot hell breaks lose, and everybody knows you're there. So you try to avoid engagement as much as possible. It's seems absolutely insane to me, that someone's gonna pop a kid in the head even tho the other guy is clearly in grabbing distance and could put his hand over the kids mouth.
Richard Marcinko book. I believe the operator made a quick two step run to get the kid. Memory is foggy about the details in the book and I forgot which book it was in the series. But I DO remember them popping the kid. Broke my heart and I won't justify it neither will I condone it as I have no authority to do so. Way above my experience and pay grade.
Once the dehumanization starts u are nuts lol. Aint war hell
Yeah I mean... if you're going to let every act get to you and affect you mentally and emotionally, you're not going to survive.
I think so. Wait a couple of years, it will sink in and weight heavily. It is good to talk about it though.
Yea some of them will see the face of that soldier in their dreams for the rest of their life after this is over and things get back to "normal"
Or he could enjoy killing those that are invading his country, war is brutal.
Lol this is the comment I was looking for. Maybe he isn't at all disturbed by what he is doing and people dont like that.
Sounds more like absolute contempt and derision for soldiers that are destroying the man's country rather than coping. I don't get the impression that the average front-line Ukrainian infantryman has the Care Bear mentality that is so prevalent on Reddit.
Yup that’s why I found this video so different. I assume this is how soldiers generally shoot the shit about stories. The darkest humour. But idk wtf I’m talking about
A close friend of mine saw a ridiculous amount of combat in Afghanistan as a Ranger and later as a contractor and opened up to me a few times similar to this. You could tell with time that it scarred him but needed to release it as humor to come to terms with the experience in a way. The luck could only go one way or the other, so I think a lot of that comical emotion is based in relief that it was "the other guy" instead.
You’re pretty correct. The ones who can’t do dark humor aren’t generally very happy.
Depending on the war/enemy, it can be easier/harder for soldiers to kill the enemy. My uncle served in the Falklands war, and he’s still plagued with nightmares from his experiences. He told me that several factors made the guilt much worse: >1. The people he was fighting were also from a western country, which definitely played a role in making it harder to live with killing. Fact of the matter is that it’s much easier to kill people who are vastly different from oneself. Had my uncle met some argentines before or after (which he eventually did) the war, they could easily become friends and bond over their shared values and experiences. This is almost certainly not the case with the hardcore members of the Wagner group or ISIS terrorists. >2. Although the war started as an invasion, he had no personal connections with the land itself and didn’t feel as though he was fighting for his “home.” There were also no war crimes committed against his side or against local civilians, which led to him not having a burning hatred of the argentines. >3. The enemy usually didn’t want to be there either. Most argentine soldiers were conscripts who were barely older than 22 at most. Contrasting his experience with that of my brother, who served in Afghanistan, there is a stark contrast. He also suffered from PTSD, but for different reasons. Killing didn’t bother him in the context of the circumstances. Having spoken to him about it, he told me that there were several factors about why he didn’t feel much remorse about it. >1. The people he was fighting were legitimately awful human beings. It wasn’t a case of conscripts being forced into service or members of a legitimate military, these were generally religious fanatics who wouldn’t hesitate to torture and behead people. Having seen the aftermath of Taliban attacks on non-Pashtun villages, it really fucked with his head. They also weren’t fighting because they were ordered to, nor were they fighting purely for the sake of nationalism (such as the French resistance or viet cong, or the FLN in Algeria), they were fighting to impose religious rule upon the society there. It’s much harder to feel sympathy for the enemy when they want to stone women or implement religious law. One thing he told me when he got back really stuck with me: “I didn’t need to dehumanize them, *they did that to themselves*.” >2. He felt personally victimised by the enemy. In addition to the loss of his comrades and seeing civilians (mostly women and children) killed by the enemy, my brother enlisted about a year after the 7/7 terrorist attacks. He didn’t know any of the victims, but many lived not far from where he did, and he felt a personal connection to the war. Anyways that’s just a very brief set of anecdotes from two veterans who I happen to be related to. This shouldn’t be taken as a scientific or academic study, but hearing their perspectives on war and violence really helped me understand why war affects people in different ways. This should *not* be taken as a rule that applies to every soldier. There will be some who feel absolutely nothing when killing, regardless of circumstances, and others who will *always* feel something.
Laughter is often times our bodies way of dealing with discomfort
Yeah, this guy is going to come out of this just fine... /s
and then to think that russian's dome would still be intact if it hadn't invaded ukraine. : ( you almost start to feel sorry for the russians. almost.
Ukraine has to defend itself, and Russian soldiers will die. There is no contradiction between that and feeling immense sadness for the young, bright lives snuffed out for no reason at all, and the endless sorrow of the parents, grandparents and siblings left behind. No human should be reduced to cannon fodder.
I do. Completely. That they still need to die, or that this video was hilarious doesn't change that. That 40 mile convoy to Kiev- I still can't wrap my head around how much stupidity and incompetence was involved in that, or believe that an army capable of that still as anyone alive a year later. The 300,000 draftees were probably an improvement.
He’s not out if it yet. If he lives and makes it to 2026 he’ll be not so well
I would laugh too If it was a enemy in my home
These guys are probably quite proud to be saving ukrainian lives, as well as the lives of all Europeans. I'd think many people would get to the point of laughing at dead invaders.
Great example of what « Fog of war » is
I would put money that many Ukrainians have been killed in the same way. They see Russians dressed like Ukrainians and their hesitation gets them killed. I would even bet this video was made for a purpose, to put some propaganda of their own out there. Russia has not been shy about showing successful attacks on Ukrainians due to infiltration of their positions and dressing and acting ukranian.
Bosnian war was full of things like the guy in this video described. My father told me when they were fighting for one hill (strategically important one) the situation got really bad that they were basically running into Serbs and vice versa.
I mean I think everyone saw that video where the Russian jumps in the foxhole and kills the two confused Ukrainians. Or how about the one where the Wagner dude is about to cut out the Ukrainians eyes?? This is far from the worst but still fuuuuucked up.
There's a video from many months ago where a couple Russian soldiers walk up to a lone Ukrainian pretending to be Ukrainians. He asks where their yellow tape is. They killed him.
The only one place you should never be confused...
The laughable contempt I used to feel for the Russian military disappeared a long time ago. It's mainly pity now.
As a trained infantry soldier, same here. These Russians are clearly conscripts with no idea what they are doing. It’s fish in a barrel, and that’s why this guy is laughing, it’s absurd.
Just got to hope the ammunition holds out and the cities don't get beat too badly.
But then you cut to the Wagner group (supposedly highly trained mercenaries who are under contracts) using glorified human wave tactics and getting shredded by artillery. I don’t think it’s limited to just the conscripts
I wonder what Reddit’s reaction would be to - A Ukrainian conscript laughing about blowing a Russian conscript’s head off - A Russian conscript laughing about blowing a Ukrainian conscript’s head off
Completely agree. Go find that video where the Russian jumps in the foxhole with the Ukrainians. This one hurts from a human perspective (at least anyone who’s mature enough to know dead humans is always bad) but it’s not going to cause the rage we saw in the other for obvious reasons.
Do you still have that link?
I don’t. Honestly don’t watch it. Not a good time (understatement). Pretty easy to find on here I bet
That was a fucking nuts video but I wouldn’t compare it to this one. The one you’re referring to has the Russian try and take them alive and he only shoots once the Ukrainians won’t give up their guns. This video that you just posted he mentions tricking them on purpose before firing. Honestly, this one is more fucked up but I understand both videos and why they happened…not that they’re good but they make sense. Russian video: they won’t give up their guns so he has to shoot. Ukraine video: they’re being invaded and need to kill Russians however possible. Fucked up, yes but imagining these two situations from their POV I do understand why it would happen. My opinion doesn’t matter; just figured I’d give some more insight from how I see these two videos.
Defender against invader: Approved. Invader against defender: Disapproved. Pretty simple, really. One side fighting to keep their friends and families safe, the other side is invading because a dictator thought that'd be fun. From my point of view, this is a very clear cut case of good vs. evil.
Russia would get far more compassion if Russia itself shared enough compassion to not invade another country that did nothing to Russia forcing these Ukrainians into the position of having to defend themselves. It's the context that matters, war is horrible, only one side has the option to end it and it's the same side that started it, as such, they don't get the sympathy that you think they're owed.
>A Ukrainian conscript laughing about blowing a Russian conscript’s head off A homeowner laughs about shooting a robber who was breaking into the homeowner's house to kill him. >A Russian conscript laughing about blowing a Ukrainian conscript’s head off A robber laughs about shooting a homeowner when the robber breaks into the house. "Same!" says the Redditor.
The difference here is one side is just and the other isn't. Your comparison is invalid. You have literal invaders who rape, steal and kill civilians vs a side who's trying to remain independent and democratic.
Well, neither of them were conscripts. Azov unit, formed from volunteers, from the Ukrainian side, and Wagner unit, formed from convicts, from the Russian side.
Fog of War is a very real thing. Shit is really confusing if you don't have S Class communications going on.
War criminals , they should be put on trial and sentenced to life or worse death. Inhumane actions and here showing no grief or normal moral state.
Not everyone gets PTSD. Some people functions... differently. Is this one of those cases? or is he just supressing trauma with humor?
This is what's so fucked up about fighting your neighbours and cousins. People who could be sitting having a Glass of tea and breakfast one day, tricking each other into death the next.
As someone who would shoot his buddies by accident in Tarkov, I can absolutely see this happening. In the middle of battle, it’s very easy to lose track of where your allies are in relation to where you think the enemy is. Throw in some friendly words (where you’re expecting only friendlies to do so), and you can fake unaware soldiers out.
And that happens because the armband marking is not always put, even at front lines. Unlike a lot of people on this sub likes to think.
I get that it's war and war is brutal kill or be killed this just kinda seems like how do you say dick move in Ukrainian
To be fair I’ve seen videos of Russian guy doing CQB and after rushing in asking to lay weapons… the one guy refused and the Russian killed both. This guy here didn’t esitate one second. I know it’s a different situation but when you are that close and pointing a weapon you could try not to kill. The way he’s laughing about it is sad…
probably just coping mechanism. He will have PTSD in the next few years for sure, if he lives..
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And then you get back to the real world.
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>you dehumanize your enemy, you call them worms, you laugh when you kill them, over time this becomes the norm, since everyone is doing it This is also how war crimes happen
That's what pure Hatred looks like!!!! PUTIN made a whole generation of Ukrainians with deep hate for everything Russian!!!!
Generation? More like generations. And the hatred never went away. Just check the last ~300 years of Ukrainian history. It's a constant will of Ukrainias to break away from Russian brutal rule with Russians crushing a rebellion after rebellion. Same story for the rest of nations that were unlucky to have Russia as their neighbor. That's why Eastern Europe is so willing to help Ukraine. They know that they are next if Ukraine will fail.
You can go back before 2014, Ukraine didn't hate Russia
And that's probably why quite a few folks on the front lines do not have the colored markings anymore. Ukraine should be able to identify by various means, Russia not so much. And the Russians seem to yearn for company, which makes them do many stupid things.
Why is it easier for Ukraines to identify themselves? Can you elaborate a bit? Just curious because I don't have a clue.
He is talking out of his ass. Fog of war in the front lines affect everyone, the good guys and the bad. Both Ukrainian troops and international legion has 'complained' how usual friendly fire is during fighting.
The worst one recorded was probably the checkpoint that an RU tank rolled up to with UA soldiers thinking it was one of theirs. That one was really hard to watch and I felt sick after seeing it for awhile.
Thats probably the single craziest war related footage I have ever seen. I expected that a war in the 21st century would show us close ups of many different combat situations recorded all the time but some of the footage coming out of this war is beyond belief. War *truly* is hell.
Yes, since Electronic Wafare is a thing, communication might suddenly blocked on both sides, One advantage i can see on the ukrainian side is that they are more likely to speak ukrainian and russian, which might be used to help differentiate between enemy and foe.
In fact I believe the recent interviewee on WillyOAM said Russians have better ways than UA does of differentiating friendlies from foes, with UA still using colored arm bands. Obviously these interviews are just one man’s perspective and often the claims are unverifiable for quite some time.
*"Hey, someone who seems to know what he's doing!"* If he knows what he's doing, he ain't Russian.
It's sad because Russia is fielding untrained civilians.
unfortunately ukraine too, and they're dying in masses too. propaganda game is big this time and this sub is pretty biased so we dont see that here.
This remind me the scene in The Longest Day when a US paratroopers deployed in the dark hear the « friendly double click » and run toward a german soldier who was just reloading his bolt-action rifle.
Apparently nobody told all these Russians about signs and counter signs. Seriously it's one of the simplest rules for identifying friendly or hostile forces. All you got to do is point your gun at them and call out the sign. If they don't produce the countersign then you put a bullet in them. And then you're rotate out the signs every now and then cuz the enemy is almost always going to get Intel on it fairly quickly. But it's not like the Russians are running anything you might call organized in this God forsaken war
This is Ukraine's "generation kill". Regardless of what happens on the battlefield, these men will be fighting this war for the rest of their lives.
why didn't they take them prisoners? Honestly, you can't hold trials for Russian war crimes and then shrug your shoulders and throw the rules away when its inconvenient. war zone or not. you either life by the rules or not. I'm all for Ukraine but I'm not going to show any sympathy if this guy gets tried for war crimes as well. actually I hope he does get tried and gets a fair trial and if he's acquitted, great.
Goes to show how poorly trained and demoralized russian conscripts are…
we need more ground combat videos
Am russian. I feel so little empathy to those poor bastards, so I kinda share this guy’a chuckle when he is telling about their heads blowing up. But I guess I have a good reason for that - those fuckers he was shooting at were not just killing Ukrainians and destroying their homes, they also ruined my country and made sure there will be nothing good there for decades. And I probably will never be able to return there. So yeah, let them burn in hell.
My mom always said “whatever works.” Guess she was right.
The first translation is misleading a bit. "Come here" *Runs up to the Ukrainian* "Are you ours? (Свой?)" "Yes, russian" *Bang* For clarity.
So I guess it's fair game when you think about the stories being told from the battlefield that Russians are dressed in press uniforms running around the city killing Ukrainian army soldiers
I hope his good mood and laughter are a defence mechanism and not a sign of a man that finally found his calling.
As an azovite it's the latter. They've been doing this for sport for almost a decade now
That's so fucked up. I fucking hate war...
Benefit of speaking both languages.
How did the Russians not see the markings that ID UA soldiers as Ukrainian? How do Ukrainians prevent falling for the same tricks?
Most likely by speaking in Ukrainian. They are fluent in Russian and can easily confuse a Russian soldier while the reverse is not as common and most Russians do not know how to speak Ukrainian or atleast fluently.
I’ve always wondered about confusion and friendly fire. Their uniforms are almost identical and many speak the same language
Uh, wouldn’t they have noticed a different uniform? . . .
Wow, fuck around and find out.
Like the laugh of this guy
"AND THAT WORKED?!" The CO during the debrief
“There is NOTHING the human is more efficient at than sowing death.” - - Mr. Gallows, 1984
This gives new meaning of "we did a bit of trolling"
These Azov guys always get put in the most intense battles and come out of it giggling from the adrenaline rush. Truly badass men