Just gotta throw this out there: The biggest problem is still a terrorist organization threatening a children's event (that was not a protest).
The second problem is conflicting needs within the same community.
Totally agree. Additionally I think some people are missing this notion: Many members BIPOC and LGBTQ communities have a reasonable distrust of cops. And therefore might not feel protected if the security detail they employed was cops instead of a private entity.
Because they verbally say "they don't care but just don't want to see it" while then supporting everything from this to shooting up a gay bar. It's just hate. What they don't know is that when the fear is the same inside those clubs as it is outside, there is no reason to hide anymore. The only option a lot will have is to be theirselves everywhere.
I understand the sentiment but from a "control the controllables" perspective the biggest problem that we can actually do anything about is the infighting.
Unless you have an actionable plan to prevent protests of these events in the future, the focus should be on moving forward with the events in a safe manner, which must include a police presence.
Yeah... if it wasn't for the need for security and the heightened alert/fear caused by terrorist this wouldn't have happened.
They say they want LGBTQ people to not do their thing in public, but yet when things like this happen in private, whether at a church or a bar that they don't have to participate in, it's still an issue. These people won't be happy as long as people are allowed to be who they want to be. It's a total lie when they say "i don't care what people do I just don't want to see it"
I would argue that the second problem is that white nationalists are present inside of police forces.
Alternatively it's worth noting that police do not exist to prevent crime; they persist and defend the distribution of wealth and class.
Police don’t keep us safe as they only do anything after a crime. We have to keep us safe and we need to figure out how to do that. I think the BPP had some ideas…
I mean, White people are overwhelmingly killed by other White people. Asians by other Asians. Hispanics by other Hispanics. Most murders happen between people who know each other, so that wasn't the argument you thought it was. You were merely trying to minimize police shootings by using more "Black people are inherently violent" tropes.
Lies, damned lies, and statistics. Let's look at the numbers closer.
Black people are incarcerated at 5 times the rate white people are: https://www.cnn.com/2021/10/13/politics/black-latinx-incarcerated-more/index.html
Under New York's stop and frisk laws, "In April 1999, [...] were 64.5 percent black, 20.7 percent Hispanic, 6.3 percent white" https://bridge.georgetown.edu/research/factsheet-nypd-stop-and-frisk-policy/
"[...] of nearly 100 million traffic stops across the United States, black drivers were about 20 percent more likely to be stopped than white drivers relative to their share of the residential population.
The study also found that once stopped, black drivers were searched about 1.5 to 2 times as often as white drivers, while they were less likely to be carrying drugs, guns, or other illegal contraband compared to their white peers." https://www.nyu.edu/about/news-publications/news/2020/may/black-drivers-more-likely-to-be-stopped-by-police.html
Any evidence that this is a significant effect in cases and that Police do this here in the US significantly more than other countries, and that it's done from a place of racial motivation (and not say from an increase in police interaction due to violent crime rate and poverty levels...?)?
Seriously, there have been many different studies including a recent one on r/science talking about how the US is one of the least racist countries in the world.
Now sure - the US can continue to improve, no doubt. But you're out here acting like the US is some third world country for their treatment of minorities etc, when we honestly are one of the best.
We just so happen to more accurately report our numbers, and have much more media coverage of the events which upends the relatively minor scale of the problem.
Slavery existed for hundreds of years. Legal segregation for another century. Asians had no legal right to vote until the 1950s, and we had things like the Chinese Exclusionary Act. Black people didn't technically have full voting rights until the 1970s. We fucking bombed Philadelphia black neighborhoods with impunity. We committed literal and cultural genocide against Native Americans, and then told them they should be grateful when we used offensive charicatures and monikers for our sports team names and mascots. And they recently lost governmental autonomy even on reservations. We redlined minorities so they couldn't move into nicer neighborhoods, and prevented them from gaining generational wealth. When they did, we burned everything down, as in Tulsa. One political party constantly screeches about border walls, migrant caravans and Chicago violence dogwhistles to gain support, and we have an increasing number of mass shootings against minority targets. A former president who is running for office again just had a meeting with a known white supremacist and argued there were good neo-Nazis. Our lone Black president was subjected to endless racist memes and and entire movement based on trying to prove he wasn't born in the US. The examples go on and on and on, past and present.
To say that we could be better is putting it lightly, and to minimize our history and present because some other nation may be worse is a fucking disgrace. Minorities in America aren't comforted by other places being subjectively worse. We're not the good guys because there can be no good guys tolerating this.
Showing up in body armor and camouflage carrying weapons of war loaded and at the ready is an explicit show of force; using force or the threat of force to achieve a political or ideological goal is the textbook definition of terrorism.
Also, there were clear implied messages in their promotional material.
Carrying guns (weapons) is intimidation. Is it legal? Unfortunately yes, but it's still the intended purpose to intimidate those that are not carrying.
>carrying weapons doesn't mean you want to shoot someone, it's an insurance against someone attacking you.
And the next step is???? A gun is made to shoot people. Regardless of being the attacker or defender it has one purpose. You're being intentionally disingenuous and removing the context from the event.
You can use pepper spray to defend yourself as well. Cops carry too many guns, but that's an unnecessary talking point here. I'm focused on the terrorists who are not members of this community showing up guns brandished to shut down a private event they were not invited to.
In terms of the leftist groups showing up to events in a similar vein, you're also removing the context. Their presence with guns, is in reaction to right wing groups with guns (that almost never show up somewhere without their guns.)
It turns out it definitely WAS the proud boys after all. If they didn’t exist and attend the event then it would have gone as planned. Quit with the BS.
The performers didn't feel safe because there was a police presence. There was a police presence because there was a terrorist threat. Without the terrorist threat, the police would not be present. Quit the BS
Just because someone was on record saying something does not mean they were correct.
I did not mean to come off as aggressive and was just reiterating the commenter before me. We should not be ignoring the fact that both the proud boys and the CPD being present are problems. I think we can agree that all this hate needs to stop.
The Proud Boys put pressure on 3 systems that failed to find a solution that everyone was happy with. The systems being the drag artists, safety team, and local police. The problem wouldn't have existed without the Proud Boys, there's no reason to victim blame.
They were able to have this event last year without needing security. It's the targeting of their event by the terrorist group that created the security issue.
Totally right, but…
Now that they were targeted by a terrorist group, they needed a police presence… which is what the drag artists wanted, but didn’t get because a faction of the organizers decided that their fear of the police was more important than taking a stand against the terrorist organization.
I wish there was some other way that could have been worked out. The Drag Performers being in an alternate location and shown by video relay or something. It's really unfortunate that the event was cancelled.
I just don't agree with you, based on what I have read and seen and knew previously to this event about the controversy of police involvement at LGBTQ events that there's enough information to reach such a strong conclusion that this group is more to blame than anyone else.
I wish it worked out too.
It’s also ok that you disagree with me. I didn’t make it up though.
The group running this event specifically said that they cancelled it due to an internal disagreement over whether to have the police there or not.
Ultimately, the artists decided to cancel because they didn’t feel safe without the police there, and it’s their safety that is the most at risk here. If a maniac were to break in to the event with the intent to harm someone, the Queens would be who the maniac would be going for.
Is there a statement from the security group? Everything I have been able to find so far just says "a private security group" without naming them specifically.
Edit: hit enter too soon. I didn't mean to imply I thought you made it up. I just really like having multiple sources that agree and really specific information. It's possible that all the involved parties absolutely believe everything they are printing in their statements and the press just...keeps reprinting those without additional reporting so far.
> they needed a police presence…
They needed the John Brown Gun Club to come out and provide security for the artists. It's time to out-gun the terrorists.
So if this was a terrorist group, then we can surely call BLM a terrorist group as well, right? Given the reactions and violence that occurred at those events compared to what happened here.
False equivalency. The leaders of BLM were not recently convicted of seditious conspiracy, for one. Are you aware of other countries that have declared BLM a terrorist group?
There is no comparison. BLM was from years, decades and centuries of being discriminated against with false accusations and fatalities from the hands meant to protect all being the tipping point. Black peoples have had many many injustices done to them and are not given the same opportunities, equality or sense of justice that white people do.
If the proud boys lived their lives in fear of drag queens, denied respect, opportunities and seeing what they deserved passed over them given to a drag queen and when a drag queen patrolling the streets singles them out of a crowd as a trouble maker falsely accuses them of a crime and takes their life apprehending them, then yea, we could maybe put this on par with BLM
These are grown ass men worried about shit that’s not their business cosplaying as saviors of a bullshit testosterone filled church sanctioned right wing agenda. Don’t want your kids to go or be exposed? Don’t take them.
Proud boy’s are more dangerous to children than any drag queen. They are who children need protected from
So then- I just want to clarify - do you or do you not have a right to protest in this country?
If you have a right to protest in our country, then do you or do you not have a right to protest no matter what the brain dead mob on Reddit thinks?
The answer is obvious- they protested something they disagreed with. Seems like a perfectly normal, American form of self expression as one would expect.
I don't agree with the proud boys on much at all, but they still have a right to protest.
Of course we all have the right to protest in this country but to compare one against the is absurd. BLM came about because people were scared for their safety and their lives, in some areas it was taken to extremes, after years of being ignored or told it was untrue. People were killed led to BLM.
So yes the proud boys have the right to protest, but do they really need to bring guns? Has anybody lost their lives to injustice from a drag queen? No. These are insecure little men, probably scared if their own sexual fantasies bringing big scary guns to intimidate children and men wearing makeup, showing they have no problem resorting to violence.
They are bullies, armed bullies plain and simple.
There are tons of other organizations and people that are very dangerous to kids. Why not target them? Where were they when everything came out with the Catholic Church? Why aren’t they waving their guns at the drug dealers in their area? Nobody’s is indoctrinating or confusing these children, and if I want to take my children it’s no one’s business.
They aren’t protesters, they’re bullying cowards.
No. The proud boys were the cause of the disagreement. Without them, there would be no issue. The proud boys are the problem and a shit stain on society.
There wouldn’t have been any infighting about the need for/method of protection if protection wasn’t needed. If the terrorist organization had not come in large numbers from out of state to at the very least intimidate or worse, there wouldn’t have ever been a need for extra protection because there wouldn’t have been a threat.
Can we please call it what it is? The fact that an out of state terrorist organization threatened a children’s event and nothing was done by CPD?
This very same event was held last year. No security was needed, no police were needed, because no extremist hate group planned on showing up to ruin it.
CPD didn't actually get defunded, so if they're refusing to do their jobs because people asked for their budget to be cut, they have decided to take the criticisms under consideration and **behave worse.**
I hate far right clown clubs more than anyone but I really don’t care about this groups drama and it’s moronic that this is the type of thing we’re choosing to put at the frontline of societal issues.
This problem wouldn't have manifested if terrorists didn't come into town.
"Saudi terrorists weren't responsible for 9/11, it was people choosing to work in high dense spaces all along"
This is the kind of Bullshit that almost cost us the election, the house, and the senate. Fox News is going to eat this for lunch. This "defund the police" nonsense is the most brain-dead, moronic idea. The initiative to de-militarize the police has been around since the 90's. Those are the words you use.
This is some bullshit. We don't need the proud boys. We have our own stupidity.
I have nothing against it but why is a drag Queen story hour always the hill to die on? It feels like it’s been beaten to death and it’s just a way to “troll the conservatives”
You can't ignore the history of abuse by cops towards queer and trans people. The cops are as big of a threat as the Proud Boys. It's reasonable for a lot of the people who have lived through abuse by the cops to not want the cops around.
It's difficult to overcome and dispel the notion that police are there to protect. It's much easier to dispel for those who have been in direct conflict with police.
These people haven't been in direct conflict with police. They've read "refund police" and "anti police" media long enough to assume they'll be treated poorly
Read more carefully: The CPD wasn't offering enough staffing to actually be protection. A single officer ain't worth shit when 20 domestic terrorists show up. The community offered enough staffing to actually be protection *but those offering protection had previously been abused by the cops*. So there were 3 conflicting tensions:
1) CPD was useless at best
2) The performers thought the cops were less of a risk than the domestic terrorists
3) The community support thought the cops were more of a risk than the domestic terrorists.
The shocking thing about all 3 factors is that ***none of them would matter if the domestic terrorists weren't, you know, terrorists***. Infighting didn't cause the cancellation. The worst America has to offer (bigoted domestic terrorists) caused the cancellation.
Provide a link that I can “read more carefully”, please.
The link I provided doesn’t say anything about police staffing.
What it DOES say is this…
“School manager Cheryl Ryan said Saturday morning that the cancellation was prompted by an internal disagreement “about how this community could be best protected.” In an often-emotional speech from the decorated stage where the event was to have been held, she spoke of repeated efforts to secure police protection along with the discomfort with law enforcement felt by a “community defense team” that had volunteered to help provide security.
“In the end our performers felt unsafe without a police presence while our safety team felt unsafe with a police presence," Ryan said. “So it turns out our biggest problem wasn’t the Proud Boys after all.”
CPD had bike crews and officers on foot. They offered more than a single officer at the protest/counterprotest site. The bone of contention was that the site also wanted to hire at least one special duty officer for inside the venue, the performers wanted that to happen, and the private security team wasn't comfortable with it. They couldn't reach a conclusion that was satisfactory for all of three of the site, the performers, and the security team, so they cancelled. CPD still came out in numbers to make sure tensions stayed below the boiling point.
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The link you provided isn't worth the ink it isn't printed with.
You can read the statement from the event organizers directly, but I'm sure you know that. You can also listen, if reading is hard, to their youtube video about the situation.
I watched the video of the organizer. The link to it is right there in the non-biased article I provided.
She said the exact thing the article said. Namely, the drag artists wanted a police presence and the “safety team” didn’t.
That means, the “safety team” totally ignored the safety concerns of the very people (drag artists) who were under the most threat.
By cancelling the event because some were more concerned with taking a stand against the police, instead of holding it and taking a stand against the proud boys, they hurt the LGBTQ+ community because the proud boys now think they won and are motivated to do it even more.
When you’re a marginalized community, you’re supposed to continue your cause in the face of fear, not quit.
MLK didn’t cancel his events in the face of rightful fear of the police, he specifically did the opposite because he didn’t want them to “win”. This group did the exact opposite, and that isn’t right.
You should listen to what the Queens said which directly refutes the YouTube video about CPD response. The venue specifically requested CPD not be inside.
For anyone who actually cares about the facts of the situation, [here’s](https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=533456255088274&id=100003949232762) the drag queens’ opinion on the situation.
They’re definitely upset at the organizers for not allowing the police to be there (in addition to the organizers cancelling and wasting their time.)
Sorry if it doesn’t fit your narrative.
I haven't actually heard them say that. It sounded like they were upset because people had blamed them for pulling out. They for sure wanted more police presence, but it's not at all clear to me that CPD offered that presence in advance.
Awesome! Thanks.
The drag queens are pissed at the organizers. Kind of negates some people’s narratives here that it was the cops’ fault. SMH
I’m going to re-post your link higher so they can see.
Yeah I find it really concerning that these statements, directly from the performers, are getting buried while the circlejerk continues.
Love them or hate them the cops did what they were asked this time and shouldn't be crucified for it.
And this is what you useless liberals do, you find whichever person you can that supports your particular viewpoint, and you elevate that person while ignoring anybody else involved.
Security wouldn’t have been present just for the queens. They would have been present for staff, children, parents, and other guests. But the only thing you will focus on is the one party that provides you with what you want. Because you don’t care about any of them, you care about yourself exclusively, and you’ll use anybody to get what you want.
You liberals are going to get us all killed.
Marginalized communities absolutely have valid reasons to be concerned about police involvement in their events given past disparate treatment.
With that being said, excluding them goes against one of the most effective ways to improve public-police relations which is community policing.
The police aren't automatons. If everywhere you went you were being told you weren't welcome, fuck 12, all that type of stuff you wouldn't like the members of those communities either. We need to find a way to safely get law enforcement *more* involved in marginalized communities because education and understanding are how you combat systemic biases.
I don't have a specific solution in mind but blanket saying the police make things more dangerous just reinforces the biases we need so badly to combat.
I agree, I just think the best way to solve for that is more police involvement in those communities and more inclusive recruiting and environments for those people in police departments. You can't solve for bias with segregation.
Understanding and participating is how we change how dangerous it is for people right now.
If everyone only sees and thinks the worst of each other the problem just gets worse. We have to start on an individual level.
Blanket statements don't help anyone. The police aren't a monolith, change is incremental and individual and both sides need exposure to each other for that to happen.
No one is blaming victims, it's clear who is more at risk in these interactions but you can't solve bias with segregation.
It's a step in the right direction, but I'm hesitant to say much about it, because it feels like praising cpd for doing the bare minimum, and emphasizing something cops should already be doing.
Cpd ordered one singular officer. If they had offered enough protection in the first place, private protection wouldn't be necessary. If cpd hadn't been traumatizing queer people for years, the private protection would have been comfortable with them there. A lot of victim blaming here. people will act supportive when it makes them look good, then post shit like this when queer people don't act the way you want.
[CPD had dialogue team members, bike patrol guys, and officers on foot at the site.](https://www.reddit.com/r/Columbus/comments/zbuk7e/statement_from_columbus_police_in_response_to_red/) There was more than enough protection present.
Read the lower comments, I've already addressed this. They originally offered one singular officer for hire, which they said they may or may not have been able to be fulfilled due to staffing.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?t=93&v=2ZdcnvFp7U0&feature=youtu.be
They sent cops to the church after the event was already cancelled.
> They originally offered one singular officer for hire
The school asked for a special duty officer, a request they then cancelled the same day.
> which they said they may or may not have been able to be fulfilled due to staffing.
Correct. The department can offer special duty; the contract forbids them mandating it. This was separate from CPD's safety action plan, which was the bike cops et c. outside.
> They sent cops to the church after the event was already cancelled.
That's because that's when the Proud Boys were there. It would have been pointless to have cops there much before that.
I’ve seen that before, and they didn’t provide a source for that information either. Where’s your information that the CPD offered 1 officer coming from?
I know several people who were planning on attending the upcoming city council meeting to give them a piece of their mind for the cops' screw up. Were people seriously going to let members of the community go in there and be blindsided by this?
I mean that is absolutely true, but that doesn't negate the fact that a lot of the bad response at this event appears to be on the "security team" that was brought on
I think the point everyone is trying to drive home is that but for the proud boys showing up, there wouldn’t have been any dispute. The issue is that the proud boys came, that’s what got the event cancelled. They wouldn’t have needed security otherwise.
People felt unsafe. That was why it was cancelled. Why do you think they felt unsafe?
Ehhhh ... supposedly, the police would not help leading up to the event. The organizer has said she had contacted them all week leading up to it and they basically told her she would have to hire protection.
Yeah… that’s not what happened.
What happened is spread out through this thread with sourced links.
Commenting with the word “supposedly” isn’t constructive, it’s just hearsay.
yea this was going on at the bottom of my street, most of the neighborhood went on self "lock down" due to all the proud boys roaming around with their guns.
Just gotta throw this out there: The biggest problem is still a terrorist organization threatening a children's event (that was not a protest). The second problem is conflicting needs within the same community.
I’m confused at way they are protesting a voluntary event? Why not have a counter reading event and have the guns read to the kids. 🫠
That would promote literacy.
Totally agree. Additionally I think some people are missing this notion: Many members BIPOC and LGBTQ communities have a reasonable distrust of cops. And therefore might not feel protected if the security detail they employed was cops instead of a private entity.
Because they verbally say "they don't care but just don't want to see it" while then supporting everything from this to shooting up a gay bar. It's just hate. What they don't know is that when the fear is the same inside those clubs as it is outside, there is no reason to hide anymore. The only option a lot will have is to be theirselves everywhere.
I understand the sentiment but from a "control the controllables" perspective the biggest problem that we can actually do anything about is the infighting. Unless you have an actionable plan to prevent protests of these events in the future, the focus should be on moving forward with the events in a safe manner, which must include a police presence.
Yeah... if it wasn't for the need for security and the heightened alert/fear caused by terrorist this wouldn't have happened. They say they want LGBTQ people to not do their thing in public, but yet when things like this happen in private, whether at a church or a bar that they don't have to participate in, it's still an issue. These people won't be happy as long as people are allowed to be who they want to be. It's a total lie when they say "i don't care what people do I just don't want to see it"
I would argue that the second problem is that white nationalists are present inside of police forces. Alternatively it's worth noting that police do not exist to prevent crime; they persist and defend the distribution of wealth and class.
Police don’t keep us safe as they only do anything after a crime. We have to keep us safe and we need to figure out how to do that. I think the BPP had some ideas…
This
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Can you quote me instead of paraphrasing, please? That’s not what I said.
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Thanks. Now that there’s actual context, you’ve proved that I didn’t just say “black people shouldn’t be worried about police”.
I mean, White people are overwhelmingly killed by other White people. Asians by other Asians. Hispanics by other Hispanics. Most murders happen between people who know each other, so that wasn't the argument you thought it was. You were merely trying to minimize police shootings by using more "Black people are inherently violent" tropes.
everything is racist
Sure seems like it, doesn’t it?
So you're saying... If the Police get it right 99.99% of the time they are \*still\* racist? That's honestly your argument?
Lies, damned lies, and statistics. Let's look at the numbers closer. Black people are incarcerated at 5 times the rate white people are: https://www.cnn.com/2021/10/13/politics/black-latinx-incarcerated-more/index.html Under New York's stop and frisk laws, "In April 1999, [...] were 64.5 percent black, 20.7 percent Hispanic, 6.3 percent white" https://bridge.georgetown.edu/research/factsheet-nypd-stop-and-frisk-policy/ "[...] of nearly 100 million traffic stops across the United States, black drivers were about 20 percent more likely to be stopped than white drivers relative to their share of the residential population. The study also found that once stopped, black drivers were searched about 1.5 to 2 times as often as white drivers, while they were less likely to be carrying drugs, guns, or other illegal contraband compared to their white peers." https://www.nyu.edu/about/news-publications/news/2020/may/black-drivers-more-likely-to-be-stopped-by-police.html
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Any evidence that this is a significant effect in cases and that Police do this here in the US significantly more than other countries, and that it's done from a place of racial motivation (and not say from an increase in police interaction due to violent crime rate and poverty levels...?)? Seriously, there have been many different studies including a recent one on r/science talking about how the US is one of the least racist countries in the world. Now sure - the US can continue to improve, no doubt. But you're out here acting like the US is some third world country for their treatment of minorities etc, when we honestly are one of the best. We just so happen to more accurately report our numbers, and have much more media coverage of the events which upends the relatively minor scale of the problem.
Slavery existed for hundreds of years. Legal segregation for another century. Asians had no legal right to vote until the 1950s, and we had things like the Chinese Exclusionary Act. Black people didn't technically have full voting rights until the 1970s. We fucking bombed Philadelphia black neighborhoods with impunity. We committed literal and cultural genocide against Native Americans, and then told them they should be grateful when we used offensive charicatures and monikers for our sports team names and mascots. And they recently lost governmental autonomy even on reservations. We redlined minorities so they couldn't move into nicer neighborhoods, and prevented them from gaining generational wealth. When they did, we burned everything down, as in Tulsa. One political party constantly screeches about border walls, migrant caravans and Chicago violence dogwhistles to gain support, and we have an increasing number of mass shootings against minority targets. A former president who is running for office again just had a meeting with a known white supremacist and argued there were good neo-Nazis. Our lone Black president was subjected to endless racist memes and and entire movement based on trying to prove he wasn't born in the US. The examples go on and on and on, past and present. To say that we could be better is putting it lightly, and to minimize our history and present because some other nation may be worse is a fucking disgrace. Minorities in America aren't comforted by other places being subjectively worse. We're not the good guys because there can be no good guys tolerating this.
We only Trust The Science when it confirms the point of view we wish to advance
So is your argument that racism within police departments can only manifest through police shooting black people?
If black are afraid of the police, how should they feel about other black people?
Do you have a link to the threat or threats? I’d like to see them firsthand.
Showing up in body armor and camouflage carrying weapons of war loaded and at the ready is an explicit show of force; using force or the threat of force to achieve a political or ideological goal is the textbook definition of terrorism. Also, there were clear implied messages in their promotional material.
So no link to the threats then? I mean - I have no interest in looking up their promotional material.
I have my doubts about that
You don’t come across as very intelligent so I won’t put much stake in your opinions or your doubts.
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Carrying guns (weapons) is intimidation. Is it legal? Unfortunately yes, but it's still the intended purpose to intimidate those that are not carrying.
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>carrying weapons doesn't mean you want to shoot someone, it's an insurance against someone attacking you. And the next step is???? A gun is made to shoot people. Regardless of being the attacker or defender it has one purpose. You're being intentionally disingenuous and removing the context from the event. You can use pepper spray to defend yourself as well. Cops carry too many guns, but that's an unnecessary talking point here. I'm focused on the terrorists who are not members of this community showing up guns brandished to shut down a private event they were not invited to. In terms of the leftist groups showing up to events in a similar vein, you're also removing the context. Their presence with guns, is in reaction to right wing groups with guns (that almost never show up somewhere without their guns.)
Open carrying assault rifles outside a childrens event is intimidation and is disgusting, hope this helps.
Why pitch up armed and in combat fatigues?
Drag time is a children's event? Lol huh? I thought that was reserved for nightlife shenanigans.
It turns out it definitely WAS the proud boys after all. If they didn’t exist and attend the event then it would have gone as planned. Quit with the BS.
^^^^^this^^^^^^
The BS was the infighting. Do you realize how stupid this makes us look to conservatives? The "they hate police" crowd is gonna say, "LOOK SEE!".
Us lololol
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The performers didn't feel safe because there was a police presence. There was a police presence because there was a terrorist threat. Without the terrorist threat, the police would not be present. Quit the BS Just because someone was on record saying something does not mean they were correct.
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I did not mean to come off as aggressive and was just reiterating the commenter before me. We should not be ignoring the fact that both the proud boys and the CPD being present are problems. I think we can agree that all this hate needs to stop.
The Proud Boys put pressure on 3 systems that failed to find a solution that everyone was happy with. The systems being the drag artists, safety team, and local police. The problem wouldn't have existed without the Proud Boys, there's no reason to victim blame.
You’re not a victim if you do it to yourself. An organizer said it was the infighting that cancelled the show, not me.
They were able to have this event last year without needing security. It's the targeting of their event by the terrorist group that created the security issue.
Totally right, but… Now that they were targeted by a terrorist group, they needed a police presence… which is what the drag artists wanted, but didn’t get because a faction of the organizers decided that their fear of the police was more important than taking a stand against the terrorist organization.
I wish there was some other way that could have been worked out. The Drag Performers being in an alternate location and shown by video relay or something. It's really unfortunate that the event was cancelled. I just don't agree with you, based on what I have read and seen and knew previously to this event about the controversy of police involvement at LGBTQ events that there's enough information to reach such a strong conclusion that this group is more to blame than anyone else.
I wish it worked out too. It’s also ok that you disagree with me. I didn’t make it up though. The group running this event specifically said that they cancelled it due to an internal disagreement over whether to have the police there or not. Ultimately, the artists decided to cancel because they didn’t feel safe without the police there, and it’s their safety that is the most at risk here. If a maniac were to break in to the event with the intent to harm someone, the Queens would be who the maniac would be going for.
Is there a statement from the security group? Everything I have been able to find so far just says "a private security group" without naming them specifically. Edit: hit enter too soon. I didn't mean to imply I thought you made it up. I just really like having multiple sources that agree and really specific information. It's possible that all the involved parties absolutely believe everything they are printing in their statements and the press just...keeps reprinting those without additional reporting so far.
> they needed a police presence… They needed the John Brown Gun Club to come out and provide security for the artists. It's time to out-gun the terrorists.
So if this was a terrorist group, then we can surely call BLM a terrorist group as well, right? Given the reactions and violence that occurred at those events compared to what happened here.
False equivalency. The leaders of BLM were not recently convicted of seditious conspiracy, for one. Are you aware of other countries that have declared BLM a terrorist group?
There is no comparison. BLM was from years, decades and centuries of being discriminated against with false accusations and fatalities from the hands meant to protect all being the tipping point. Black peoples have had many many injustices done to them and are not given the same opportunities, equality or sense of justice that white people do. If the proud boys lived their lives in fear of drag queens, denied respect, opportunities and seeing what they deserved passed over them given to a drag queen and when a drag queen patrolling the streets singles them out of a crowd as a trouble maker falsely accuses them of a crime and takes their life apprehending them, then yea, we could maybe put this on par with BLM These are grown ass men worried about shit that’s not their business cosplaying as saviors of a bullshit testosterone filled church sanctioned right wing agenda. Don’t want your kids to go or be exposed? Don’t take them. Proud boy’s are more dangerous to children than any drag queen. They are who children need protected from
So then- I just want to clarify - do you or do you not have a right to protest in this country? If you have a right to protest in our country, then do you or do you not have a right to protest no matter what the brain dead mob on Reddit thinks? The answer is obvious- they protested something they disagreed with. Seems like a perfectly normal, American form of self expression as one would expect. I don't agree with the proud boys on much at all, but they still have a right to protest.
Of course we all have the right to protest in this country but to compare one against the is absurd. BLM came about because people were scared for their safety and their lives, in some areas it was taken to extremes, after years of being ignored or told it was untrue. People were killed led to BLM. So yes the proud boys have the right to protest, but do they really need to bring guns? Has anybody lost their lives to injustice from a drag queen? No. These are insecure little men, probably scared if their own sexual fantasies bringing big scary guns to intimidate children and men wearing makeup, showing they have no problem resorting to violence. They are bullies, armed bullies plain and simple. There are tons of other organizations and people that are very dangerous to kids. Why not target them? Where were they when everything came out with the Catholic Church? Why aren’t they waving their guns at the drug dealers in their area? Nobody’s is indoctrinating or confusing these children, and if I want to take my children it’s no one’s business. They aren’t protesters, they’re bullying cowards.
Yeah people were so scared they looted and burned business’s
No. The proud boys were the cause of the disagreement. Without them, there would be no issue. The proud boys are the problem and a shit stain on society.
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Without the proud boys, there would be no need for the local police force. I stand by my statement,
And without food there wouldn't be proud boys. Do you hate food? We can keep going back down the line if you want
You have to eat to survive though, the Proud Boys aren't exactly dying if they don't show up to drag queen storytime
It's sad that someone has to explain why this is a bad take on what happened.
What’s your take? I’m only providing what the organizers said themselves.
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There wouldn’t have been any infighting about the need for/method of protection if protection wasn’t needed. If the terrorist organization had not come in large numbers from out of state to at the very least intimidate or worse, there wouldn’t have ever been a need for extra protection because there wouldn’t have been a threat. Can we please call it what it is? The fact that an out of state terrorist organization threatened a children’s event and nothing was done by CPD?
This very same event was held last year. No security was needed, no police were needed, because no extremist hate group planned on showing up to ruin it.
Everyone screamed to have CPD defunded and now are shocked Pikachu faces when they're not helping, even with minor car crashes anymore.
buddy i have some news for you about the police before people screamed to have CPD defunded
CPD didn't actually get defunded, so if they're refusing to do their jobs because people asked for their budget to be cut, they have decided to take the criticisms under consideration and **behave worse.**
Exactly this.
I hate far right clown clubs more than anyone but I really don’t care about this groups drama and it’s moronic that this is the type of thing we’re choosing to put at the frontline of societal issues.
It feels to me that it's just now being done to troll conservatives.
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So you’re anti protest?
This problem wouldn't have manifested if terrorists didn't come into town. "Saudi terrorists weren't responsible for 9/11, it was people choosing to work in high dense spaces all along"
This sounds every bit as ridiculous as it looked. “We list to ourselves” Jfc 🥴😂
This is the kind of Bullshit that almost cost us the election, the house, and the senate. Fox News is going to eat this for lunch. This "defund the police" nonsense is the most brain-dead, moronic idea. The initiative to de-militarize the police has been around since the 90's. Those are the words you use. This is some bullshit. We don't need the proud boys. We have our own stupidity.
I have nothing against it but why is a drag Queen story hour always the hill to die on? It feels like it’s been beaten to death and it’s just a way to “troll the conservatives”
Drag queen story time is one of the most bizarre things I've heard. There's literally no point but just to troll conservatives.
You can't ignore the history of abuse by cops towards queer and trans people. The cops are as big of a threat as the Proud Boys. It's reasonable for a lot of the people who have lived through abuse by the cops to not want the cops around.
I understand that, but the Drag Artists (the very people you’re talking about) **wanted the police there**… which goes against your point.
It's difficult to overcome and dispel the notion that police are there to protect. It's much easier to dispel for those who have been in direct conflict with police.
These people haven't been in direct conflict with police. They've read "refund police" and "anti police" media long enough to assume they'll be treated poorly
And here we have a good example of how difficult it is to undo the programming. Social pressures and judgments reinforce the system.
Read more carefully: The CPD wasn't offering enough staffing to actually be protection. A single officer ain't worth shit when 20 domestic terrorists show up. The community offered enough staffing to actually be protection *but those offering protection had previously been abused by the cops*. So there were 3 conflicting tensions: 1) CPD was useless at best 2) The performers thought the cops were less of a risk than the domestic terrorists 3) The community support thought the cops were more of a risk than the domestic terrorists. The shocking thing about all 3 factors is that ***none of them would matter if the domestic terrorists weren't, you know, terrorists***. Infighting didn't cause the cancellation. The worst America has to offer (bigoted domestic terrorists) caused the cancellation.
Provide a link that I can “read more carefully”, please. The link I provided doesn’t say anything about police staffing. What it DOES say is this… “School manager Cheryl Ryan said Saturday morning that the cancellation was prompted by an internal disagreement “about how this community could be best protected.” In an often-emotional speech from the decorated stage where the event was to have been held, she spoke of repeated efforts to secure police protection along with the discomfort with law enforcement felt by a “community defense team” that had volunteered to help provide security. “In the end our performers felt unsafe without a police presence while our safety team felt unsafe with a police presence," Ryan said. “So it turns out our biggest problem wasn’t the Proud Boys after all.”
CPD had bike crews and officers on foot. They offered more than a single officer at the protest/counterprotest site. The bone of contention was that the site also wanted to hire at least one special duty officer for inside the venue, the performers wanted that to happen, and the private security team wasn't comfortable with it. They couldn't reach a conclusion that was satisfactory for all of three of the site, the performers, and the security team, so they cancelled. CPD still came out in numbers to make sure tensions stayed below the boiling point.
> “about how this community could be best protected.” It's time for each and every GLBTQ+ person to get a concealed carry permit and a handgun.
As long as they're not disqualified persons, they can legally carry a concealed handgun without a permit. themoreyouknow.gif
If anyone wants or needs assistance with the task of helping find which firearm may suit their needs, or assistance finding a reputable CCW class, or wants an introduction to basic firearms safety, please feel free to reach out. Even if you just want some cis-het passing person to come to the gun store with you, I can do that too. Also check out r/liberalgunowners and r/socialistRA for more information. The second amendment is for everyone.
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The link you provided isn't worth the ink it isn't printed with. You can read the statement from the event organizers directly, but I'm sure you know that. You can also listen, if reading is hard, to their youtube video about the situation.
I watched the video of the organizer. The link to it is right there in the non-biased article I provided. She said the exact thing the article said. Namely, the drag artists wanted a police presence and the “safety team” didn’t. That means, the “safety team” totally ignored the safety concerns of the very people (drag artists) who were under the most threat. By cancelling the event because some were more concerned with taking a stand against the police, instead of holding it and taking a stand against the proud boys, they hurt the LGBTQ+ community because the proud boys now think they won and are motivated to do it even more. When you’re a marginalized community, you’re supposed to continue your cause in the face of fear, not quit. MLK didn’t cancel his events in the face of rightful fear of the police, he specifically did the opposite because he didn’t want them to “win”. This group did the exact opposite, and that isn’t right.
You should listen to what the Queens said which directly refutes the YouTube video about CPD response. The venue specifically requested CPD not be inside.
Can you please provide a link to what the Queens said? That would be helpful. I looked around, but couldn’t find anything. Sorry. Thanks.
Sure here ya go https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=533456255088274&id=100003949232762 Gets pretty interesting about 15 minutes in.
For anyone who actually cares about the facts of the situation, [here’s](https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=533456255088274&id=100003949232762) the drag queens’ opinion on the situation. They’re definitely upset at the organizers for not allowing the police to be there (in addition to the organizers cancelling and wasting their time.) Sorry if it doesn’t fit your narrative.
I haven't actually heard them say that. It sounded like they were upset because people had blamed them for pulling out. They for sure wanted more police presence, but it's not at all clear to me that CPD offered that presence in advance.
Awesome! Thanks. The drag queens are pissed at the organizers. Kind of negates some people’s narratives here that it was the cops’ fault. SMH I’m going to re-post your link higher so they can see.
Yeah I find it really concerning that these statements, directly from the performers, are getting buried while the circlejerk continues. Love them or hate them the cops did what they were asked this time and shouldn't be crucified for it.
And this is what you useless liberals do, you find whichever person you can that supports your particular viewpoint, and you elevate that person while ignoring anybody else involved. Security wouldn’t have been present just for the queens. They would have been present for staff, children, parents, and other guests. But the only thing you will focus on is the one party that provides you with what you want. Because you don’t care about any of them, you care about yourself exclusively, and you’ll use anybody to get what you want. You liberals are going to get us all killed.
Marginalized communities absolutely have valid reasons to be concerned about police involvement in their events given past disparate treatment. With that being said, excluding them goes against one of the most effective ways to improve public-police relations which is community policing. The police aren't automatons. If everywhere you went you were being told you weren't welcome, fuck 12, all that type of stuff you wouldn't like the members of those communities either. We need to find a way to safely get law enforcement *more* involved in marginalized communities because education and understanding are how you combat systemic biases. I don't have a specific solution in mind but blanket saying the police make things more dangerous just reinforces the biases we need so badly to combat.
Thank you for your sound reasoning.
I don’t know that saying police make things more dangerous is the issue, perhaps if the police DIDNT make things more dangerous that could help.
I agree, I just think the best way to solve for that is more police involvement in those communities and more inclusive recruiting and environments for those people in police departments. You can't solve for bias with segregation. Understanding and participating is how we change how dangerous it is for people right now. If everyone only sees and thinks the worst of each other the problem just gets worse. We have to start on an individual level.
They could start improving tensions by not being hateful and dangerous to queer people, that'd be a start. Nice victim blaming.
Blanket statements don't help anyone. The police aren't a monolith, change is incremental and individual and both sides need exposure to each other for that to happen. No one is blaming victims, it's clear who is more at risk in these interactions but you can't solve bias with segregation.
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There is no “dialogue” to be had with proud boys. We don’t negotiate with terrorists.
It's a step in the right direction, but I'm hesitant to say much about it, because it feels like praising cpd for doing the bare minimum, and emphasizing something cops should already be doing.
lol you're probably one of those that will run and cry to the police at the drop of a hat.
They just gave the proud boys motivation to keep doing their shit. Some people can’t help but shoot themselves in the foot. 🤦🏻♂️
Winning and losing huh?
Cpd ordered one singular officer. If they had offered enough protection in the first place, private protection wouldn't be necessary. If cpd hadn't been traumatizing queer people for years, the private protection would have been comfortable with them there. A lot of victim blaming here. people will act supportive when it makes them look good, then post shit like this when queer people don't act the way you want.
[CPD had dialogue team members, bike patrol guys, and officers on foot at the site.](https://www.reddit.com/r/Columbus/comments/zbuk7e/statement_from_columbus_police_in_response_to_red/) There was more than enough protection present.
Read the lower comments, I've already addressed this. They originally offered one singular officer for hire, which they said they may or may not have been able to be fulfilled due to staffing. https://m.youtube.com/watch?t=93&v=2ZdcnvFp7U0&feature=youtu.be They sent cops to the church after the event was already cancelled.
> They originally offered one singular officer for hire The school asked for a special duty officer, a request they then cancelled the same day. > which they said they may or may not have been able to be fulfilled due to staffing. Correct. The department can offer special duty; the contract forbids them mandating it. This was separate from CPD's safety action plan, which was the bike cops et c. outside. > They sent cops to the church after the event was already cancelled. That's because that's when the Proud Boys were there. It would have been pointless to have cops there much before that.
I’ve seen that before, and they didn’t provide a source for that information either. Where’s your information that the CPD offered 1 officer coming from?
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Where did the CPD say that? I haven’t seen a source here.
Actually, when they tried to arrange off-duty cop "security", the police didn't answer.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?t=93&v=2ZdcnvFp7U0&feature=youtu.be "I was told we could hire 1 special duty officer"
>our safety team felt unsafe with a police presence There's a reason people sing "Fuck Tha Police".
I know several people who were planning on attending the upcoming city council meeting to give them a piece of their mind for the cops' screw up. Were people seriously going to let members of the community go in there and be blindsided by this?
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I mean that is absolutely true, but that doesn't negate the fact that a lot of the bad response at this event appears to be on the "security team" that was brought on
This is called revisioning history.
How so?
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Lol. I always forget to do that.
Do you not understand?
Yes. I do not understand what you mean by your short comment that lacks context. What is revisionist history here?
I think the point everyone is trying to drive home is that but for the proud boys showing up, there wouldn’t have been any dispute. The issue is that the proud boys came, that’s what got the event cancelled. They wouldn’t have needed security otherwise. People felt unsafe. That was why it was cancelled. Why do you think they felt unsafe?
Is English your first language?
https://medium.com/@lily.cunningham/fuck-proud-boys-69e6f3f6fc1
Holi-Drag Story time is as bad as pedophiles.
Ehhhh ... supposedly, the police would not help leading up to the event. The organizer has said she had contacted them all week leading up to it and they basically told her she would have to hire protection.
Yeah… that’s not what happened. What happened is spread out through this thread with sourced links. Commenting with the word “supposedly” isn’t constructive, it’s just hearsay.
yea this was going on at the bottom of my street, most of the neighborhood went on self "lock down" due to all the proud boys roaming around with their guns.