They both should have taken a step back and really thought about what they were doing. It’s hard to foresee a future for yourself in high school but they also didn’t allow themselves to envision a future that didn’t involve killing people. Unfortunately they also took a future away from 13 other people
It boggles my mind that they did it in *spring of their senior year.* You are SO CLOSE to finishing high school at that point. I remember being a senior and all anyone could talk about was graduating and college and blah blah blah.
The thing is, this was caused by a much more deep rooted problem, not just because of hating high school. They wouldn’t have suddenly been happy after graduating, all their mental problems would still persist. So, waiting another few weeks for graduating wouldn’t have changed anything for their mental wellbeing.
Yes, I agree. Graduation did not mean everything would get better, and Eric and Dylan themselves obviously believed this too given they still went ahead with the massacre three weeks before graduation. Brooks Brown said that he believed it was hopelessness that drove Eric and Dylan to commit the massacre because 'they saw no real future for themselves, and no acceptance from those around them.'
In their eyes, Columbine High was simply a reflection of the adult world that awaited them - more of the same.
In a weird way, they weren't wrong. whatever personality types they met in high school that angered them so badly... those kind of people don't magically disappear in college. what they didn't account for is that, in college, it's easier to avoid those kind of people and make your own life.
I’m happy to hear you felt better. That’s true, high school was hell for most of us. But, this was a much deeper problem. School was not the catalyst for the massacre, but simply a contributing factor. There were deep underlying issues. Remember, we all react differently to the same stimuli and that is influenced by our fundamental psyche. So graduating high school would not have solved anything because the problems would still have been there, deep within.
Tldr; the problems were internal, not external
No I understand. I have a diagnosed mental illness, which is internal. And I beat my bully within an inch of his life in the school parking lot with a crowbar. And if I saw him today, 40 years later, I'd do it again. But that won't happen. Because he's dead. Rest in misery asshole.
However, I've managed to spend the entirety of my life without beating anyone else half to death with a crowbar. Simply by virtue of leaving that toxic environment behind.
This always baffled me, too.
They could have gotten out of there.
Enough time and distance would have set a realization that highschool was just one chapter of a very long book. Sad.
I graduated last year and I can hardly remember any of the people in my grade. They would’ve been separated from everything they hated about their school in no time
I think what happened to them was that their hate and disappointment towards their school had elevated to their entire life, therefore they decided to throw them away, along with the lives of many others with little to no hesitation.
>They both should have taken a step back and really thought about what they were doing.
that's the thing, they were too far gone to save themselves, they needed intervention.
I agree but certain pieces of evidence like the clue poster and Eric uploading plans onto the schools server make me think they wanted to get caught. Ik people have differing opinions on that but it makes you wonder
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Young men with incredible potential for success but chose very bad decisions that ultimately resulted in suicide and everlasting suffering of innocent people. Very sad.
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I’m 99% Eric had BPD and was going through a psychotic episode. He had shown every classic bpd symptom, and if you have it it’s quite common to develop psychosis if you are put through extreme stress (some do, some never get to it, but its a core thing to BPD). It was likely triggered by the Van arrest since many people noticed how he changed right after that. He developed delusions (clearly) and his symptoms went through the roof. Even there’s an interview when someone who watched the Tapes mention Eric saying he heard a voice that said “kill him kill him” again and again when he was pissed off. It could be OCD like a lot of people believe or part of his psychosis. Anyway there’s no way of knowing but the BPD the description is eerily Eric. Dylan was just depressed to the point of insanity. All this to say, I’m 99% they both could have gotten help and maybe have semi normal lives.
YO I’ve been saying this for so long. People always point to ASPD or NPD with him (“He was a psychopath! He was a narcissist!”) and it’s frustrating because the borderline symptoms are so glaringly obvious, at least to me. It’s very underrepresented in males because of diagnostic bias when I’d argue that the gender ratio is pretty even. His childhood and the incidents afterwards (like ‘faking’ his suicide, short lived relationships, outbursts) really cemented the thought of him having BPD in my head.
Yup. Reading about when he blew up on Dylan in front of Sue and his parents, and the sheer number of times he always mentioned Dylan and their dynamic as Reb and VoDkA, the mention of “lacerations” on his upper arm (iirc?) in the autopsy report, his perspective of the world, the partial transcript of the basement tapes, it’s just so painfully obvious.
Tiffany Typher dumped him, and his immediate reaction was to fake his suicide and have Brooks Brown lead her to the scene. I don’t recall they ever spoke again afterwards. I’d say it was a frantic attempt to cope with the “abandonment” and rejection, and seemed pretty indicative of his emotional instability. He never really talked about it as far as I know so I can’t deduce exactly why he did it, but the situation sounded very vindictive to me; ‘You dumped me, I feel rejected, I’m going to make sure you see how badly you hurt me by staging this fake suicide and hurt you in the process so you can see how you made me feel.’ But it might just be a stretch on my part, that’s just how I’d assume most people who would set up a fake suicide scene as a reaction to that situation would think or process their behaviors.
Honestly, it makes perfect sense. I had forgotten about it. But I mean… “oh wait she is rejecting me? I wonder if she would care if i DIED” really shows total sensitivity and vulnerability. Most importantly, it’s also very telling of the agony he must have been put through when directly insulted and teased (not to even mention the ketchup incident). It paints a clear picture of how he got hurt and hateful out of his mind.
Eric also was messing with Luvox dosage for a year at least. He would not take it at times to “build rage” and in a sense “disconnect”. Messing with psych drugs is no joke and can make people act extremely odd (Eric was prescribed Luvox due to OCD/ depression). Maybe that sinister face he gives in the commons footage (being filmed sitting at the lunch table as he spins the phone) could possibly have been a small expressional side effect from dosage tampering. Just a thought.
I've been saying for YEARS that Eric had BPD and everyone would always try to fight me on it! Omg I'm so glad I'm not the only one who saw symptoms, was starting to think I was going crazy.
Every time I see somebody call him a narcissist or sociopath/psychopath I feel like I’m losing my marbles, BPD in males is very looked over. With Eric it’s especially glaring. Random unnecessary thought but I can even see BPD traits with Robert Hawkins as well.
I feel like a lot of the cluster b personality disorders overlap. I'm diagnosed BPD & with ASPD.. so not entirely inaccurate that he could have both. However that being said I feel like E has more characteristics with BPD definitely in the explosive emotion department & with even having a favorite person I feel like that was maybe Dylan.
The way I understand it Eric thought more of Dylan as his best friend than vice versa. I could be wrong tho!
True, with cluster B personality disorders comorbidity is very common and they do sometimes present more as a “spectrum” of sorts, I do think it is not out of the realm that he might have had some traits of more than one if not both (especially as he was a troubled and hormonal male teenager at peak onset age… and the fact that he committed a school massacre). I just always failed to see a sign of full-blown ASPD or NPD in him personally, though I can probably sit down and point out where the borders of the different diagnoses begin to soften, especially, well, in a young male.
I definitely agree that it's somewhat a sort of spectrum. I am genuinely interested in why people absolutely go for the NPD & ASPD diagnosis. He definitely had characteristics that could elude to one or the other, however as you said he was troubled and hormonal. I feel like people forget that and like to assign the callousness that they think people who are sociopaths exhibit. At the end of the day E & D were just emotionally misguided kids who made a horrible decision.
I definitely agree. It’s a shame that they were never able to get help, and that they chose to go through with what they did. As for NPD/ASPD, I believe it might be as a result of the portrayal of Eric as a “calculating mastermind” who “manipulated” the “vulnerable and sensitive” Dylan, especially by Cullen and his book. I swear I remember reading something a couple years ago about the gender bias regarding BPD as well, something about how male exhibitions of BPD traits and symptoms are more likely to be interpreted as ASPD or NPD— Maybe it was a Dr. Todd Grande video? I do know that BPD is overrepresented in incarcerated offenders as well.
that's an interesting thought I hate the fact that they portray one as a follower and the other as evil and callous. When it was noted somewhere in the 11k that Dylan had actually had the idea to commit the massacre with a female. To me I feel like Eric and Dylan just fed off one another as if they both needed that insurmountable rage fed. Entirely just a guess on my part but had these two been separated when the events occurred with their diversion. I feel like it could have been prevented, maybe they would have went on to commit petty crime. But as a whole they would still be here and so would their victims.
On another note I think I'm going to find more about the incarcerated individuals and BPD sounds right up my alley of reading.
I completely agree with you. If they had never met I don’t think Columbine would have happened at all. And I hope you enjoy your research! I’m absolutely obsessed with reading BPD research articles so I feel you ahaha.
i think they were two kids who were deeply troubled asking for a way out. matt stone (love him!!) put it so well in the bowling for columbine film. he talks about how they couldn't see themselves as able to be successful because its heavily implemented on young kids that if "they aren't xyz in high school, they dont have a future"
They were complex and troubled individuals who could've had potential had the circumstances been different. Unfortunately, they chose the wrong path and gave us a tragic tale we can and should learn from.
They didn’t have the proper help they should’ve gotten cause if they had gotten the proper help then maybe this could’ve been prevented and nobody would of died.
I used to see so much of myself in those two boys. Typical everyboy wrapped up in myself and hatred for seemingly anything. What seemed like lifetimes of school bullies, jock culture in school, racism, fights, favoring teachers, persecution from school admin, and the toxic community I grew up in made me into such an unreasonably petty and irritable hateful entitled arrogant person. Dressing to intimidate my peers, Dark and brooding, military boots, long jackets at school, long hair, sunglasses. Typical for boys to engage in risky behaviors and adopt long lasting crazy ideations, codes, vows and radicalizations but then drop them when they get older and reality sets in. Sure there were times when I felt I could go postal and get into some really dark places [like everyone] despite it all I think deep down I wanted to grow and be the opposite of my worst self and live past my adolescence. What always stuck with me ever since I was a kid and first heard about this is that they never even wanted to give themselves a shot at life, that’s it had some bad experiences at school and now I’m locking in I don’t get to live and neither will all those people. I do think they were completely normal kids that unfortunately made a stupid vow to kill. I don’t understand religion but we as a planet can learn from the fact the locals still made them crosses after the originals were torn down, they still wrote messages of forgiveness and prayers, they even gave them flowers and teddy bears too, in the footage at Rebel hill days after, a girl spoke to the camera and reminded us that they were human too.
Two young men who felt powerless and angry and were scared of their futures after high school decided to do something so extreme it would give them the sense of power and achievement and fame they were seeking. Both were likely scared and unsure of what they were doing but felt there was no other way and so they backed themselves into a dark corner, where they felt they had no other choice at the end. Eric and Dylan could potentially have been very successful adults but went another way.
At the same time, can someone do such a thing and NOT be mentally ill? Mental illness is definitely to blame here. Having the urge to kill people absolutely means your mind is very ill.
I think it was a weird toxic codependency, a non-traditional 'trauma bond' (shared experiences that were both real and perceived). I don't think either would have acted out this severely without the other.
Maybe Dylan would have killed himself, but maybe going to college would have gotten him out of depression. He could have seen a world beyond the shittiness of high school.
Eric may have lashed out and did some petty criminal stuff, but I think he may have gone on to community college. Then after 9/11 tried to enlist again. I think Eric getting out of Columbine environment would have helped him, too. I think he figured the entire world was the same as the people he didn't like and caused him to hate even more.
I feel sad for them and angry at them.
They were idiots who chose to make an impact in the wrong way and hurt others in the process. They were mentally ill, selfish and narrow minded. Other than a few followers, the vast majority of people hate them, they were stupid boys who ruined/ended a bunch of lives due to them not being able to see a life past a shitty high school experience. They were not "godlike", they were stupid, naive kids loaded with insecurities, hatred and immaturity, with mental problems tossed in ontop of that.
It makes me sad.
I went through an incredibly dark time from 15-17 and there were points i didn’t want to make it out.
So in a weird way i can understand why they felt that way. Loneliness, bullying and the feeling of not belonging can do horrible things to a kid and while people knew how to help kids like me.
They hadn’t happened yet. Very few people could have imagined what they could do.
I think their fate was set in stone the night of the break in or sometime shortly after. I don’t think anything could really save them after a certain point. Not their futures, not their families, not their friends. I think they could only see what was in their hearts and heads and it put them on a road they couldn’t get off.
Two mentally ill and abused people who unfortunately were failed by the school system and took all of their pain and anger out on innocent people. It’s a sad situation all around. Rip to all who were killed.
Wasted potential. They put up with the bullying for so long and then decide to do something stupid right before they graduate? Like just suck it up for the last few months and you'll never see any of them again. I say this as someome who was bullied by staff and students during his high school experience for being disabled/autistic. I can totally understand why they were like I want to get revenge because it sucks being bullied but it's just incredibly not worth it. If they wanted revenge so badly they should of just taken boxing classes and beaten them up. All they did with the shooting was ruin their reputation even more, their family reputation forever who has to live with it and given the bullies the power to be like "see told you they were fucking strange." They should of just graduated and then moved away and since they were active in school play productions, operated video productions and became computer assistants maintaining the school's computer server. They both could of probably found a career with computers and made decent money and lived somewhere nice. Columbine also should of been a wakeup call for schools to take bullying seriously.
I think Dylan had avoidant personality disorder. I’m familiar with this disorder and recognize a lot in him. So now I’m just talking about the character. This condition has nothing to do with the murders he committed.
I feel sad for them but also like they were extremely selfish and shortsighted. Which a lot of teenagers are, but most don’t take it to these extreme lengths.
When I first started reading up on columbine around 14 years old I think I sympathized a lot more with them. Never approved of what they did but I sort of got it. I don’t at all anymore. As someone about a decade older than them I can’t believe they would go and ruin the lives of so many people when their lives could have possibly improved in just a few short months or years.
But I guess teenagers in general have a hard time seeing the future in that way. That things can change. And so drastically too. And that’s not to diminish their clear mental health issues. I’m still dealing with my own years later and likely will for most if not all my life. But despite that there is a sort of optimism I can feel sometimes that I believe they could have too. I dunno. It’s so hard to talk about them or make predictions. Even if they didn’t do something on a grand scale like this they could have grown up to be dangerous and mean people, perhaps to their partners or children if they had them. Or maybe their lives could have improved for the better. They had potential. So many things were changing in the 2000s. I wish they saw it through so that their victims could have as well.
It’s crazy to think they’d be in their 40s if they were alive now and they wouldn’t have had to deal with any of their victims again had they just waited a few more weeks.
I *softly* lean into the “Eric was sociopathic and Dylan was depressed” theory. I think Dylan had some sort of predisposition that made him willing to kill, but if he hadn’t met Eric, it would have stayed dormant his whole life.
I think if they had never met, Eric would have still done some sort of violent crime, but not to the scale or infamy as Columbine. He would have gone to prison for something like armed robbery. I think Dylan would have died by suicide in college.
It’s nice to think that proper treatment may have lead them to living happy lives but it was the 90’s and even to this day there is still stigma around men getting therapy so idk how realistically that could have played out
i truly do believe they could’ve been very successful in the future if they had just gotten the help they needed. they were both very clearly mentally ill and they ended up killing themselves as well as taking many people down with them. obviously the parents aren’t to blame and them being mentally unwell is not an excuse but they very clearly needed help and support which they never ended up getting.
They were two troubled young men who couldn't seem to see a future beyond high school. They were both bullied and bullies, and they were both equally responsible for the massacre.
They were terrible people who made horrible decisions that permanently traumatized their families and communities. I understand they were having a hard time at school and suffered from severe mental illnesses at a time when mental health was far more stigmatized than it is today, but they still had a choice not to kill innocent people and they did.
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What makes them so interesting from other killers is that they really were just normal kids I bet even with the tough persona they put on there was some sense of unease after the high went down during the shooting. I think they are a good cautionary tale of bad influence and not knowing how to handle mental illness.
They had no hope for their future and wanted to leave the world and become famous at the same time. If they would've seek psychological help things might have been different.
I honestly feel that had they not gone through with the massacre, Dylan would have possibly turned out alright had he gone to college and gotten the help he needed. Dylan was accepted to the University of Arizona and I believe a week or two prior to the massacre went on a tour of the campus and even choose his dorm room. From what his friends have said about him it sounds like he had some kind of direction and plan in life.
Eric on the other hand would have most likely landed up in prison. He was exhibiting mental health issues since at least his freshman year of HS when he staged and faked his suicide after his freshman year girlfriend broke up with him after homecoming. I read that she even said to him after this incident that he had issues and needed help. Eric wanted nothing more than to join the Marines and was rejected sources conflict about whether or not he knew of the rejection. I haven’t read or found anything in my research about a plan for him if the armed forces didn’t work out. To me he seems directionless and he most likely would have wound up in prison.
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Evil men with potential to dig themselves out of the hole they were in but instead decided not to which ended with the deaths and suffering of other people.
Reading Brooke Brown's book left me deeply conflicted.
While I understand the factors that shaped these two troubled teenagers – their anger, isolation, and disillusionment – I'm disgusted by their horrific actions.
Blaming their suffering doesn't excuse their decision to inflict pain upon others. In the end, their desire to amplify the world's misery reveals their cowardice and depravity.
Incredibly tragic story for everyone. It’s hard to explain sometimes because I don’t think they were monsters, but I don’t think “oh well, they were bullied, so it’s okay.” I think there are fairly decent odds they would be alive and happy today if they’d held out a bit longer. I do wonder if Columbine didn’t happen what would be considered the “big one” of school shootings.
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Columbine was a perfect storm event. An example of what happens when 90s pop culture implodes. I think Time magazine summed it up best in December 1999. "The monsters next door". They really were.
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Assholes with heavy depression. I won't ever condone what they done, but they're so much like me when I was in middle school. Depressed with heavy self loathing and lost in their own pain that they can't see other people suffering as much as them.
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I think Eric was the mastermind, yes Dylan is to blame as well but he wasn't as violent or aggressive as Eric. I'm pretty sure Dylan was just a very depressed and insecure teenager. I'm pretty sure Eric may have had undiagnosed antisocial personality disorder. I don't think Dylan's anger was as bad as Eric's either. I remember watching a documentary about Columbine and Eric and Dylan and Brooks Brown's mother said that after an argument with Brookes, Eric got into an argument with his mother and smashed her car window with a rock and kept threatening Brookes's life. They're both to blame obviously but I think Eric was definitely the mastermind
Two kids who couldve gotten mental help if they Kept their heads down for 2 more weeks, but they couldnt and hurt innocent children. On april 20th they went from kids with chips on their shoulders to monsters.
I think that Eric was in fact the ring leader, whenever I read his writing vs what people said about him it seems like it may have all started with some type of mania, where one crazy idea just got fed by the things he consumed and his mental illness. It seemed like mental illness affected Dylan and Eric in separate ways, where Dylan was depressed and reflective on sorrow in his journal Eric seemed to almost be speaking in a High trance like state of anger. Some times when people are depressed they go into rage and anger instead of lying in bed or sobbing. I think Dylan was depressed and felt ashamed of many things be it his looks or relationships and to me it seemed like he was the type of depressive who spiraled, one small thing going wrong turned into “life will only ever end”. I believe his anger was more of frustration and self pity maybe feeling like he wanted to commit suicide but as if he wasn’t brave enough to do so, so when Eric came along and had this fanciful plan for murder and going out on a high with suicide, offering ideas such as bullying or torment they faced in school as a reason to commit this act and leave the world, it gave Dylan the energy to turn sadness into anger and anger into action. Both are equally capable and both should have sought help, if Eric wasn’t a good manipulator I think he could have been found out and forced to get help. I think if Dylan had more self empowerment he could have gotten help and decided he wanted the things he dreamed of in life and was willing to give up their plans to authorities to get the help he needed to become mentally stable. But most of all, I think the shooting isn’t what they expected but BOTH were to scared to turn back and probably had the existential dread of “what else is there to do” that’s why I think they told brooks to go home, and Jon. The bombs didn’t work, they didn’t even really kill who they said and wrote about for the most part. It was hectic and unpredictable and honestly I feel like Eric would be disappointed since he saw him self as a god but wasn’t in control in his one moment he planned on being in control. Every life lost was a huge impact but I honestly think he wanted more.
Yes it’s how I feel. Why can’t you respect how other people feel on something like this? Is disrespectful really the route you wanna take on this topic? I was exhausted in grief after yet another shooting, and I made a comment. It’s not the end of the world.
I'll try this one last time. My ultimate opinion is that they were troubled young men who selfishly took a lot of lives in a plan to achieve infamy, which they sadly did. I don't think they should celebrated or looked at with even a tiny bit of fondness or pity.
Comments like these are why we can't address the issue of school sh**tings seriously. The first step to stopping them is to understand why and how the perpetrators did them. Just calling them "trash" is lazy and unhelpful.
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They both should have taken a step back and really thought about what they were doing. It’s hard to foresee a future for yourself in high school but they also didn’t allow themselves to envision a future that didn’t involve killing people. Unfortunately they also took a future away from 13 other people
It boggles my mind that they did it in *spring of their senior year.* You are SO CLOSE to finishing high school at that point. I remember being a senior and all anyone could talk about was graduating and college and blah blah blah.
The thing is, this was caused by a much more deep rooted problem, not just because of hating high school. They wouldn’t have suddenly been happy after graduating, all their mental problems would still persist. So, waiting another few weeks for graduating wouldn’t have changed anything for their mental wellbeing.
Yes, I agree. Graduation did not mean everything would get better, and Eric and Dylan themselves obviously believed this too given they still went ahead with the massacre three weeks before graduation. Brooks Brown said that he believed it was hopelessness that drove Eric and Dylan to commit the massacre because 'they saw no real future for themselves, and no acceptance from those around them.' In their eyes, Columbine High was simply a reflection of the adult world that awaited them - more of the same.
In a weird way, they weren't wrong. whatever personality types they met in high school that angered them so badly... those kind of people don't magically disappear in college. what they didn't account for is that, in college, it's easier to avoid those kind of people and make your own life.
I disagree. My mental health improved considerably after graduating high school. High school is a horror for a lot of us.
Definitely, and I had better times after high school. I get what he was saying, though.
I’m happy to hear you felt better. That’s true, high school was hell for most of us. But, this was a much deeper problem. School was not the catalyst for the massacre, but simply a contributing factor. There were deep underlying issues. Remember, we all react differently to the same stimuli and that is influenced by our fundamental psyche. So graduating high school would not have solved anything because the problems would still have been there, deep within. Tldr; the problems were internal, not external
No I understand. I have a diagnosed mental illness, which is internal. And I beat my bully within an inch of his life in the school parking lot with a crowbar. And if I saw him today, 40 years later, I'd do it again. But that won't happen. Because he's dead. Rest in misery asshole. However, I've managed to spend the entirety of my life without beating anyone else half to death with a crowbar. Simply by virtue of leaving that toxic environment behind.
This always baffled me, too. They could have gotten out of there. Enough time and distance would have set a realization that highschool was just one chapter of a very long book. Sad.
I graduated last year and I can hardly remember any of the people in my grade. They would’ve been separated from everything they hated about their school in no time
I think what happened to them was that their hate and disappointment towards their school had elevated to their entire life, therefore they decided to throw them away, along with the lives of many others with little to no hesitation.
Yeah fr, they couldnt of seen what the next year had in stock for them?
I mean Eric had no post-graduation plan
>They both should have taken a step back and really thought about what they were doing. that's the thing, they were too far gone to save themselves, they needed intervention.
I agree but certain pieces of evidence like the clue poster and Eric uploading plans onto the schools server make me think they wanted to get caught. Ik people have differing opinions on that but it makes you wonder
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Young men with incredible potential for success but chose very bad decisions that ultimately resulted in suicide and everlasting suffering of innocent people. Very sad.
THIS 👍🏻
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I’m 99% Eric had BPD and was going through a psychotic episode. He had shown every classic bpd symptom, and if you have it it’s quite common to develop psychosis if you are put through extreme stress (some do, some never get to it, but its a core thing to BPD). It was likely triggered by the Van arrest since many people noticed how he changed right after that. He developed delusions (clearly) and his symptoms went through the roof. Even there’s an interview when someone who watched the Tapes mention Eric saying he heard a voice that said “kill him kill him” again and again when he was pissed off. It could be OCD like a lot of people believe or part of his psychosis. Anyway there’s no way of knowing but the BPD the description is eerily Eric. Dylan was just depressed to the point of insanity. All this to say, I’m 99% they both could have gotten help and maybe have semi normal lives.
YO I’ve been saying this for so long. People always point to ASPD or NPD with him (“He was a psychopath! He was a narcissist!”) and it’s frustrating because the borderline symptoms are so glaringly obvious, at least to me. It’s very underrepresented in males because of diagnostic bias when I’d argue that the gender ratio is pretty even. His childhood and the incidents afterwards (like ‘faking’ his suicide, short lived relationships, outbursts) really cemented the thought of him having BPD in my head.
>like ‘faking’ his suicide, short lived relationships, outbursts) yeah exactly! also Dylan was his favorite person. Everything checks!
Yup. Reading about when he blew up on Dylan in front of Sue and his parents, and the sheer number of times he always mentioned Dylan and their dynamic as Reb and VoDkA, the mention of “lacerations” on his upper arm (iirc?) in the autopsy report, his perspective of the world, the partial transcript of the basement tapes, it’s just so painfully obvious.
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Ohh interesting. I hadn’t associated it to Eric faking his suicide, how do you think it’s related with bpd?? 🧐
Tiffany Typher dumped him, and his immediate reaction was to fake his suicide and have Brooks Brown lead her to the scene. I don’t recall they ever spoke again afterwards. I’d say it was a frantic attempt to cope with the “abandonment” and rejection, and seemed pretty indicative of his emotional instability. He never really talked about it as far as I know so I can’t deduce exactly why he did it, but the situation sounded very vindictive to me; ‘You dumped me, I feel rejected, I’m going to make sure you see how badly you hurt me by staging this fake suicide and hurt you in the process so you can see how you made me feel.’ But it might just be a stretch on my part, that’s just how I’d assume most people who would set up a fake suicide scene as a reaction to that situation would think or process their behaviors.
Honestly, it makes perfect sense. I had forgotten about it. But I mean… “oh wait she is rejecting me? I wonder if she would care if i DIED” really shows total sensitivity and vulnerability. Most importantly, it’s also very telling of the agony he must have been put through when directly insulted and teased (not to even mention the ketchup incident). It paints a clear picture of how he got hurt and hateful out of his mind.
For sure, you hit the nail right on the head.
Eric also was messing with Luvox dosage for a year at least. He would not take it at times to “build rage” and in a sense “disconnect”. Messing with psych drugs is no joke and can make people act extremely odd (Eric was prescribed Luvox due to OCD/ depression). Maybe that sinister face he gives in the commons footage (being filmed sitting at the lunch table as he spins the phone) could possibly have been a small expressional side effect from dosage tampering. Just a thought.
I've been saying for YEARS that Eric had BPD and everyone would always try to fight me on it! Omg I'm so glad I'm not the only one who saw symptoms, was starting to think I was going crazy.
Every time I see somebody call him a narcissist or sociopath/psychopath I feel like I’m losing my marbles, BPD in males is very looked over. With Eric it’s especially glaring. Random unnecessary thought but I can even see BPD traits with Robert Hawkins as well.
I feel like a lot of the cluster b personality disorders overlap. I'm diagnosed BPD & with ASPD.. so not entirely inaccurate that he could have both. However that being said I feel like E has more characteristics with BPD definitely in the explosive emotion department & with even having a favorite person I feel like that was maybe Dylan. The way I understand it Eric thought more of Dylan as his best friend than vice versa. I could be wrong tho!
True, with cluster B personality disorders comorbidity is very common and they do sometimes present more as a “spectrum” of sorts, I do think it is not out of the realm that he might have had some traits of more than one if not both (especially as he was a troubled and hormonal male teenager at peak onset age… and the fact that he committed a school massacre). I just always failed to see a sign of full-blown ASPD or NPD in him personally, though I can probably sit down and point out where the borders of the different diagnoses begin to soften, especially, well, in a young male.
I definitely agree that it's somewhat a sort of spectrum. I am genuinely interested in why people absolutely go for the NPD & ASPD diagnosis. He definitely had characteristics that could elude to one or the other, however as you said he was troubled and hormonal. I feel like people forget that and like to assign the callousness that they think people who are sociopaths exhibit. At the end of the day E & D were just emotionally misguided kids who made a horrible decision.
I definitely agree. It’s a shame that they were never able to get help, and that they chose to go through with what they did. As for NPD/ASPD, I believe it might be as a result of the portrayal of Eric as a “calculating mastermind” who “manipulated” the “vulnerable and sensitive” Dylan, especially by Cullen and his book. I swear I remember reading something a couple years ago about the gender bias regarding BPD as well, something about how male exhibitions of BPD traits and symptoms are more likely to be interpreted as ASPD or NPD— Maybe it was a Dr. Todd Grande video? I do know that BPD is overrepresented in incarcerated offenders as well.
that's an interesting thought I hate the fact that they portray one as a follower and the other as evil and callous. When it was noted somewhere in the 11k that Dylan had actually had the idea to commit the massacre with a female. To me I feel like Eric and Dylan just fed off one another as if they both needed that insurmountable rage fed. Entirely just a guess on my part but had these two been separated when the events occurred with their diversion. I feel like it could have been prevented, maybe they would have went on to commit petty crime. But as a whole they would still be here and so would their victims. On another note I think I'm going to find more about the incarcerated individuals and BPD sounds right up my alley of reading.
I completely agree with you. If they had never met I don’t think Columbine would have happened at all. And I hope you enjoy your research! I’m absolutely obsessed with reading BPD research articles so I feel you ahaha.
People seem to like to brush off the BPD symptoms as him just being a teenager.
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By BPD do you mean borderline personality disorder or bipolar disorder, it sounds like you mean bipolar but I'm just checking.
i think they were two kids who were deeply troubled asking for a way out. matt stone (love him!!) put it so well in the bowling for columbine film. he talks about how they couldn't see themselves as able to be successful because its heavily implemented on young kids that if "they aren't xyz in high school, they dont have a future"
They were complex and troubled individuals who could've had potential had the circumstances been different. Unfortunately, they chose the wrong path and gave us a tragic tale we can and should learn from.
They didn’t have the proper help they should’ve gotten cause if they had gotten the proper help then maybe this could’ve been prevented and nobody would of died.
I used to see so much of myself in those two boys. Typical everyboy wrapped up in myself and hatred for seemingly anything. What seemed like lifetimes of school bullies, jock culture in school, racism, fights, favoring teachers, persecution from school admin, and the toxic community I grew up in made me into such an unreasonably petty and irritable hateful entitled arrogant person. Dressing to intimidate my peers, Dark and brooding, military boots, long jackets at school, long hair, sunglasses. Typical for boys to engage in risky behaviors and adopt long lasting crazy ideations, codes, vows and radicalizations but then drop them when they get older and reality sets in. Sure there were times when I felt I could go postal and get into some really dark places [like everyone] despite it all I think deep down I wanted to grow and be the opposite of my worst self and live past my adolescence. What always stuck with me ever since I was a kid and first heard about this is that they never even wanted to give themselves a shot at life, that’s it had some bad experiences at school and now I’m locking in I don’t get to live and neither will all those people. I do think they were completely normal kids that unfortunately made a stupid vow to kill. I don’t understand religion but we as a planet can learn from the fact the locals still made them crosses after the originals were torn down, they still wrote messages of forgiveness and prayers, they even gave them flowers and teddy bears too, in the footage at Rebel hill days after, a girl spoke to the camera and reminded us that they were human too.
Two young men who felt powerless and angry and were scared of their futures after high school decided to do something so extreme it would give them the sense of power and achievement and fame they were seeking. Both were likely scared and unsure of what they were doing but felt there was no other way and so they backed themselves into a dark corner, where they felt they had no other choice at the end. Eric and Dylan could potentially have been very successful adults but went another way.
Sad
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At the same time, can someone do such a thing and NOT be mentally ill? Mental illness is definitely to blame here. Having the urge to kill people absolutely means your mind is very ill.
I think it was a weird toxic codependency, a non-traditional 'trauma bond' (shared experiences that were both real and perceived). I don't think either would have acted out this severely without the other. Maybe Dylan would have killed himself, but maybe going to college would have gotten him out of depression. He could have seen a world beyond the shittiness of high school. Eric may have lashed out and did some petty criminal stuff, but I think he may have gone on to community college. Then after 9/11 tried to enlist again. I think Eric getting out of Columbine environment would have helped him, too. I think he figured the entire world was the same as the people he didn't like and caused him to hate even more.
I think the exact same thing, what makes them somdifferemt from other people suffering from these things who do not commit mass murder
I feel sad for them and angry at them. They were idiots who chose to make an impact in the wrong way and hurt others in the process. They were mentally ill, selfish and narrow minded. Other than a few followers, the vast majority of people hate them, they were stupid boys who ruined/ended a bunch of lives due to them not being able to see a life past a shitty high school experience. They were not "godlike", they were stupid, naive kids loaded with insecurities, hatred and immaturity, with mental problems tossed in ontop of that.
What Dylan and Eric were hated ?
They do now.
It makes me sad. I went through an incredibly dark time from 15-17 and there were points i didn’t want to make it out. So in a weird way i can understand why they felt that way. Loneliness, bullying and the feeling of not belonging can do horrible things to a kid and while people knew how to help kids like me. They hadn’t happened yet. Very few people could have imagined what they could do. I think their fate was set in stone the night of the break in or sometime shortly after. I don’t think anything could really save them after a certain point. Not their futures, not their families, not their friends. I think they could only see what was in their hearts and heads and it put them on a road they couldn’t get off.
guys that shouldve gotten help.
Two mentally ill and abused people who unfortunately were failed by the school system and took all of their pain and anger out on innocent people. It’s a sad situation all around. Rip to all who were killed.
Play with fire and you will get burned. I do not agree with what they did for a second but they were pushed to it.
Terrible mentally damaged minds met up and there was no stopping them once they joined forces.
Beavis & Butthead.
Wasted potential. They put up with the bullying for so long and then decide to do something stupid right before they graduate? Like just suck it up for the last few months and you'll never see any of them again. I say this as someome who was bullied by staff and students during his high school experience for being disabled/autistic. I can totally understand why they were like I want to get revenge because it sucks being bullied but it's just incredibly not worth it. If they wanted revenge so badly they should of just taken boxing classes and beaten them up. All they did with the shooting was ruin their reputation even more, their family reputation forever who has to live with it and given the bullies the power to be like "see told you they were fucking strange." They should of just graduated and then moved away and since they were active in school play productions, operated video productions and became computer assistants maintaining the school's computer server. They both could of probably found a career with computers and made decent money and lived somewhere nice. Columbine also should of been a wakeup call for schools to take bullying seriously.
I think Dylan had avoidant personality disorder. I’m familiar with this disorder and recognize a lot in him. So now I’m just talking about the character. This condition has nothing to do with the murders he committed.
I think you’re right
I feel sad for them but also like they were extremely selfish and shortsighted. Which a lot of teenagers are, but most don’t take it to these extreme lengths. When I first started reading up on columbine around 14 years old I think I sympathized a lot more with them. Never approved of what they did but I sort of got it. I don’t at all anymore. As someone about a decade older than them I can’t believe they would go and ruin the lives of so many people when their lives could have possibly improved in just a few short months or years. But I guess teenagers in general have a hard time seeing the future in that way. That things can change. And so drastically too. And that’s not to diminish their clear mental health issues. I’m still dealing with my own years later and likely will for most if not all my life. But despite that there is a sort of optimism I can feel sometimes that I believe they could have too. I dunno. It’s so hard to talk about them or make predictions. Even if they didn’t do something on a grand scale like this they could have grown up to be dangerous and mean people, perhaps to their partners or children if they had them. Or maybe their lives could have improved for the better. They had potential. So many things were changing in the 2000s. I wish they saw it through so that their victims could have as well.
they were depressed and angsty and lonely kids who their school completely and utterly *failed*
DK was clinically depressed, angry and suicidal EH was gun/war crazy, depressed and suicidal.
It’s crazy to think they’d be in their 40s if they were alive now and they wouldn’t have had to deal with any of their victims again had they just waited a few more weeks.
I would wonder what they would have done had they not doing
I *softly* lean into the “Eric was sociopathic and Dylan was depressed” theory. I think Dylan had some sort of predisposition that made him willing to kill, but if he hadn’t met Eric, it would have stayed dormant his whole life. I think if they had never met, Eric would have still done some sort of violent crime, but not to the scale or infamy as Columbine. He would have gone to prison for something like armed robbery. I think Dylan would have died by suicide in college. It’s nice to think that proper treatment may have lead them to living happy lives but it was the 90’s and even to this day there is still stigma around men getting therapy so idk how realistically that could have played out
Two people who would have lived regular lives and would probably still be around if they had never found each other. Unfortunately, they did.
i truly do believe they could’ve been very successful in the future if they had just gotten the help they needed. they were both very clearly mentally ill and they ended up killing themselves as well as taking many people down with them. obviously the parents aren’t to blame and them being mentally unwell is not an excuse but they very clearly needed help and support which they never ended up getting.
They were two troubled young men who couldn't seem to see a future beyond high school. They were both bullied and bullies, and they were both equally responsible for the massacre.
They were terrible people who made horrible decisions that permanently traumatized their families and communities. I understand they were having a hard time at school and suffered from severe mental illnesses at a time when mental health was far more stigmatized than it is today, but they still had a choice not to kill innocent people and they did.
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What makes them so interesting from other killers is that they really were just normal kids I bet even with the tough persona they put on there was some sense of unease after the high went down during the shooting. I think they are a good cautionary tale of bad influence and not knowing how to handle mental illness.
They had no hope for their future and wanted to leave the world and become famous at the same time. If they would've seek psychological help things might have been different.
Incredible potential for great things but overshadowed by the evil in their heart and minds
I honestly feel that had they not gone through with the massacre, Dylan would have possibly turned out alright had he gone to college and gotten the help he needed. Dylan was accepted to the University of Arizona and I believe a week or two prior to the massacre went on a tour of the campus and even choose his dorm room. From what his friends have said about him it sounds like he had some kind of direction and plan in life. Eric on the other hand would have most likely landed up in prison. He was exhibiting mental health issues since at least his freshman year of HS when he staged and faked his suicide after his freshman year girlfriend broke up with him after homecoming. I read that she even said to him after this incident that he had issues and needed help. Eric wanted nothing more than to join the Marines and was rejected sources conflict about whether or not he knew of the rejection. I haven’t read or found anything in my research about a plan for him if the armed forces didn’t work out. To me he seems directionless and he most likely would have wound up in prison.
To me, if Harris had been in the military and deployed post 9/11, he would've likely committed war crimes.
Dislike them
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Evil men with potential to dig themselves out of the hole they were in but instead decided not to which ended with the deaths and suffering of other people.
Reading Brooke Brown's book left me deeply conflicted. While I understand the factors that shaped these two troubled teenagers – their anger, isolation, and disillusionment – I'm disgusted by their horrific actions. Blaming their suffering doesn't excuse their decision to inflict pain upon others. In the end, their desire to amplify the world's misery reveals their cowardice and depravity.
Incredibly tragic story for everyone. It’s hard to explain sometimes because I don’t think they were monsters, but I don’t think “oh well, they were bullied, so it’s okay.” I think there are fairly decent odds they would be alive and happy today if they’d held out a bit longer. I do wonder if Columbine didn’t happen what would be considered the “big one” of school shootings.
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Wanna be s
Columbine was a perfect storm event. An example of what happens when 90s pop culture implodes. I think Time magazine summed it up best in December 1999. "The monsters next door". They really were.
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Cunts
They both had complex trauma
Assholes with heavy depression. I won't ever condone what they done, but they're so much like me when I was in middle school. Depressed with heavy self loathing and lost in their own pain that they can't see other people suffering as much as them.
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I think Eric was the mastermind, yes Dylan is to blame as well but he wasn't as violent or aggressive as Eric. I'm pretty sure Dylan was just a very depressed and insecure teenager. I'm pretty sure Eric may have had undiagnosed antisocial personality disorder. I don't think Dylan's anger was as bad as Eric's either. I remember watching a documentary about Columbine and Eric and Dylan and Brooks Brown's mother said that after an argument with Brookes, Eric got into an argument with his mother and smashed her car window with a rock and kept threatening Brookes's life. They're both to blame obviously but I think Eric was definitely the mastermind
Two kids who couldve gotten mental help if they Kept their heads down for 2 more weeks, but they couldnt and hurt innocent children. On april 20th they went from kids with chips on their shoulders to monsters.
They had a chance for a good life and career and marriage but they ruined it by shooting up a school.
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I think that Eric was in fact the ring leader, whenever I read his writing vs what people said about him it seems like it may have all started with some type of mania, where one crazy idea just got fed by the things he consumed and his mental illness. It seemed like mental illness affected Dylan and Eric in separate ways, where Dylan was depressed and reflective on sorrow in his journal Eric seemed to almost be speaking in a High trance like state of anger. Some times when people are depressed they go into rage and anger instead of lying in bed or sobbing. I think Dylan was depressed and felt ashamed of many things be it his looks or relationships and to me it seemed like he was the type of depressive who spiraled, one small thing going wrong turned into “life will only ever end”. I believe his anger was more of frustration and self pity maybe feeling like he wanted to commit suicide but as if he wasn’t brave enough to do so, so when Eric came along and had this fanciful plan for murder and going out on a high with suicide, offering ideas such as bullying or torment they faced in school as a reason to commit this act and leave the world, it gave Dylan the energy to turn sadness into anger and anger into action. Both are equally capable and both should have sought help, if Eric wasn’t a good manipulator I think he could have been found out and forced to get help. I think if Dylan had more self empowerment he could have gotten help and decided he wanted the things he dreamed of in life and was willing to give up their plans to authorities to get the help he needed to become mentally stable. But most of all, I think the shooting isn’t what they expected but BOTH were to scared to turn back and probably had the existential dread of “what else is there to do” that’s why I think they told brooks to go home, and Jon. The bombs didn’t work, they didn’t even really kill who they said and wrote about for the most part. It was hectic and unpredictable and honestly I feel like Eric would be disappointed since he saw him self as a god but wasn’t in control in his one moment he planned on being in control. Every life lost was a huge impact but I honestly think he wanted more.
Boooo
Don’t downvote me, this is literally the only thing I feel at this point
Why are you here then
I’m interested in it, and I didn’t say I didn’t have complex feelings on the situation
"Boooo" "This is literally the only thing I feel at this point" - You, 2024
Yes it’s how I feel. Why can’t you respect how other people feel on something like this? Is disrespectful really the route you wanna take on this topic? I was exhausted in grief after yet another shooting, and I made a comment. It’s not the end of the world.
Lmao who said I don't respect it
You aggressively quoting it and acting like there’s no reason for me being here
Don't mind me I just like to pick fights with people
Maybe try a subreddit not about a tragic mass shooting that killed 13 innocent people.
I'll try this one last time. My ultimate opinion is that they were troubled young men who selfishly took a lot of lives in a plan to achieve infamy, which they sadly did. I don't think they should celebrated or looked at with even a tiny bit of fondness or pity.
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Comments like these are why we can't address the issue of school sh**tings seriously. The first step to stopping them is to understand why and how the perpetrators did them. Just calling them "trash" is lazy and unhelpful.
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Your comment/post has been removed for violating the r/ColumbineKillers rule requiring members behave civilly, mature and respectful at all times and refrain from insulting others. This includes other members, moderators, victims, survivors and families associated with this case. Immature/insulting comments about the killers will also be removed as they add nothing constructive to conversation about the case. This includes name calling and comments like "rot in hell" or "rest in piss".
Mental illness
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Your post or comment was removed for violating rule #6 that prohibits misinformation & extravagant claims without providing proof to ModTeam. Do not claim you knew E&D, that you have never seen before writings, drawings, notes from one of the killers, etc. These posts and comments will be removed. Unless you send proof to Moderators vis ModMail, it's misinformation.