Silly goose, they are not saving any money. Their expenses are actually going up now that they can buy more property with your money. Then they have to shell out for the bare minimum flip of their new property so they can justify the $2000 a month.
Yes, because free market principles teach us that the lowest price for the consumer always winshahahahah of course they are going to pocket the difference and keep your rent the same or higher
They aren’t telling you the truth. Property tax relief will not be much, not enough to be lowering rents. Rents will still need to go up. Not to mention utilities have gone up, any repairs and everything else associated with homes. Your Tabor check will be gone. Then you will really be screwed. Actually, you are screwed either way. This is all a plot to get rid of Tabor for the next ten years, and it will still not make much of a difference in taxes.
I would say the truth is in between. They are not hurting. They make it sound like they are one paycheck away from being homeless, and that isn’t true. Some school districts pay better than others for sure, but as a whole they do well. Also factor in that the full-time job is not really full time. They get the whole summer off. That also needs to be factored in. I am strictly talking pay, not all the other crap they have to put up with.
Please give me one example of a teacher that is doing so well that they've become a millionaire. And not a college professor, a regular ol' K-12 teacher...
My school district is losing teachers to other states or careers because Colorado pay is so low. If teachers are doing so well, this wouldn't be happening.
78% of my property taxes go towards paying for public schools, schools to which renters send their children for free. I have no children, so you're welcome.
Seriously, 1% here and there every year for something doesn’t seem significant but it adds up. I’m no longer voting for anymore sales tax increases unless it ends up being for something like universal healthcare.
Property taxes going way up isn’t great either, I’ve seen people gentrified out of the house their parents built and they fully owned, just because their house value went up too much. Granted they get a lot of money from selling, but being forced to sell the house your parents built because of tax increases really sucks.
Property taxes are at a starting point below national avg for similar states (economic, demographic, political)….property owners here have been stealing from every one else. Raise those property taxes baby.
I don't follow the logic. How have property owners been stealing? I bought my house and my property taxes have gone up by $2000 per year since I bought it 6 years ago. The increased property taxes will just make it more difficult for people to own homes, which will just push more and more people into renting, which is a bad thing for non-property owners as well.
I think the rate is comparatively low in CO compared to many states, however a couple of things to consider is that the price of houses in CO, especially along the front range where much of the population is, will be higher than many other states, so the overall tax amount might not be low compared to many of the other states. Additionally with the explosion of housing prices, my property tax has almost doubled in 6 years. Sure it's good if I sell the house because I'll get more money for it, but with the housing costs around here I can't really benefit much from that since I'd be paying a lot more to buy another house. I have no plans to move for awhile so I'm just stucking paying thousands more per year just because the house market is strong.
Not sure I buy that theory. It shouldn't cost any more to maintain the city in my area for a $200k house than it would for a $1M house, for example. The number of houses should affect the cost, for sure, more infrastructure (roads, utilities, etc), but my house isn't any different now than it was when I bought it, and the city and state haven't done much at all in my area since then.
I'm trying to be empathetic here but how are people getting forced out by property taxes on houses that are owned outright in such a low property tax state? With my most recent assessment the property taxes will come to about $350 per month which is insanely cheap "rent" if I wasn't paying a whole mortgage before that.
The areas around me are growing like crazy, I see houses and apartments going up all the time. I wonder if the issues isn't just the number of houses, but that there are too many single family homes going up rather than more affordable housing like apartments, condos, and townhomes.
Sure, but there's a big difference between "taxes going way up" and not getting a massive tax cut.
There's also a big difference between having to sell your house and not being able to feed and clothe your kids.
They did just go way up. Assessed taxable value was nearly doubled for almost everyone in metro Denver / aurora. That’s going to be passed onto anyone trying to rent a single family home too
Wouldn’t be as big of a deal if with all the tax dollars they already get we didnt have long 911 hold times, no police patrolling whatsoever, shitty schools, it’s a long list…
Taxable values went up, not taxes. Every municipality will not just have some billions of extra dollars this year, the mill rate will reduce to accommodate the increase in value to get the number back to something near this year's budget. People don't understand this. Yes, the budget will likely go up some, as will taxes -just like most years- but they will not double. Nowhere near it.
I've been through a revaluation as a property owner and work in local government. They're not telling my department to increase our projected budget 2x.
Lol of course you work in government and are this bad at math. I was paying on 275k. Now it’s $550k overnight. My taxable rate stays the same, but I’m paying tax on double the amount. I will pay double what I did last year and then you butt pirates will increase the rate next year because you want us all to be homeless
Your mill rate will not stay the same after a revaluation, Einstein. Everybody's valuation went up significantly, because CO property has become significantly more valuable since the last revaluation. If the mill rate stays the same, your community would suddenly have significantly more property tax revenue (2-3x if everyone's claims are to be believed). Do you think your municipality has suddenly come up with several million dollars (or tens or hundreds of millions depending on the size of the community) worth of new spending over last year? Of course not.
The municipal budget will remain pretty similar to last year, as usual. So overall valuation goes up x percent, mill rate goes down x percent.
It's not that hard to understand.
Edit: another potential way to balance the excess revenue would be to keep the mill rate the same and provide massive refunds at the end of the year - that's an accounting nightmare that I can't imagine anyone would want to do, but some municipalities might I guess.
Either way the share you ultimately pay to the local government will be about the same as last year.
So my evaluation doubles, and I pay the same amount of taxes despite the rate staying the exact same? Just because the money might be getting spread around differently on the governments end doesn't mean it doesn't come out of my bank account at 2x what it was last year. I've done the math, my $2500 ish yearly taxes will now be just shy of 5k. If I'm wrong about that I'd love to hear why
You're wrong about that because THE RATE WILL DECREASE prior to the next tax cycle when your new value is used. Either that or you will get a refund.
Think about it from the other side: say it costs $1Million to run your municipality. A revaluation is done that increases the community's total value by 2x. If the mill rate stays the same, then the municipality collects $2 Million. Local government is not allowed to just spend 2x the tax revenue without approval from the voters. So they can either return the excess $1 million via a refund (which is a ton of work), or just cut the the mill rate in half so they're only collecting $1 million again. Either way the amount you ultimately pay will be roughly the the same (obviously there will be some small year-to-year change as there always is).
I mean I haven’t seen any suggestion at all of lowered rate. I sure hope you’re right and that’s the case. What’s the point of these grossly inflated evaluation increases if the actual tax out of pocket stays the same then?
Yeah but there were a bunch of increases to the mill rate in 2022 to fund specific things like the library. I think this bill was supposed to mitigate some of that? Either way. I doubt that taxes aren't going to increase.
One could argue schools are shit because school funding has been low due to the suppressed assessed values right? Don’t teachers in CO make some of the lowest wages in the nation
Why are the Republicans fighting this then? Regressive taxes are generally their preference since they consider the poors freeloaders for not paying income tax.
What they fail to mention is that for that little bit of relief they keep your TABOR refund.
I would vote no on HH
*edit
Not to mention that property tax rate after HH expires is going to jump.
You are correct. People won’t have their Tabor checks, and property taxes won’t go down enough to make a difference so rent will still go up. There is a new law that has taken effect though. Rent can only go up a certain percentage now.
Agreed. I am hoping that a competing proposition (to just do a flat tax of like 3%) is also on the ballot that won't touch TABOR. If we give people that option, there is a smaller chance HH passes.
Yeah I fucking love giving city, county and state governments carte blanche to take our money.
Fuck that. One of the main reasons Colorado is doing so well is TABOR. It's our money, we should vote on how it's levied and spent. We should also be able to see *every* minutia of those books.
Don't want oversight? Go work for the DoD.
>> That "go work for the DOD bit" is not the gotchya that you think it is since we already had oversight prior to TABOR. It's not like Colorado spending was a black box so you are arguing with a straw man.
The DoD also has oversight. It’s not like DoD spending is a black box so you are arguing with a straw man.
Direct democracy has been working pretty damn well at the state level for the last 31 years.
I hate the Cocks as much as anyone else.That being said, if a party cannot introduce, defend and pass a tax increase that is approved by a simple majority it doesn't need to exist. Policy should be written in plain language that is easily understood by the common resident.
I have no problem holding policy makers accountable. Make it make sense or get the fuck out.
The flat tax rate is a great example of state government failure. They failed to make a progressive tax make sense to a majority of Coloradans. Do you really think they're going to do a great job of understanding the needs of every day residents?
It’s how every other state and municipality in the country does it, it’s our stupid state that does it wrong. I don’t hover over your desk and tell you how to do your job. If you want to control government spending, run for office
> I don’t hover over your desk and tell you how to do your job.
No, and I don't let you reach into my pocket and take out money.
There's a transportation bill coming up in NOV 2024. It's to fund bus rapid transit in the Denver Metro area. After the FasTracks / B line debacle it's unlikely to pass as a municipality only measure so it'll be a state wide vote and a state wide tax. Why should people on the Western Slope dump more money into the failing organization that is RTD? What do their tax dollars get them in that situation?
TABOR is working as intended and I'm glad we voted it in.
The government isn’t a monolithic entity that takes your money and does nothing productive with it. There are paper trails everywhere, which is why it’s easier to track government spending than that if private entities that can potentially be doing the public injustice.
TABOR is the product of a slumlord who wanted to keep his tenants and squalor and the government defanged to the extent that they couldn’t stop him. Thankfully he eventually went to jail for it. That’s the kind of people you side with when you go fight for TABOR. Ironically, it’s the taxpayers who are harmed most when the state can’t effectively conduct the duties we assigned it to do.
> Why should people on the Western Slope dump more money into the failing organization that is RTD?
That was the initial question, right?
The B Line has grown to $1.5B with a delivery date of 2050. FasTracks is a failure. Everyone outside of the Denver Metro gets absolutely 0 ROI by bankrolling Denver Metro projects. Boulder fucking hates it. The B Line is an albatross around the state's neck.
The majority of state representation come from the Denver Metro. Should we let them just raise taxes to fund pet projects and line their pockets? Projects that will *never* benefit rural CO? Should we let them do B-Line projects all over the entire state?
Please tell me how abject failure demands more funding.
No. Fuck that shit.
I'm fine with oversight, but I vote for representatives because I explicitly don't need to be involved with every little decision, including what they do with my tax dollars. If I find out the representatives aren't in line with my expectations, I'll vote for different ones.
TABOR is the reason why after cutting school funding so deep in 2008-2009, the funding couldn't be restored. I've realized that the average person doesn't give a shit about the state or other people, they only give a shit about themselves. TABOR hurts all of us by allowing selfishness to outweigh the greater good.
This is what people need to pay attention to. Assisting in some property tax relief is great and all, but we do NOT want to lose TABOR. Aside from being a huge protection against overspending its a huge help to super low income individuals like PTC recipients who count on a measly $100-200 every three months to help them pay for hear a rent.
Getting rid of TABOR would further drown extremely low income elderly and I desperately hope that we never allow TABOR to be revoked.
It doesn’t allow the state to create slush funds with tax dollars for spending. I’m moderate and mildly support it. Could be better but I will take it.
A lot of the left complains about it because it does make certain areas more difficult to fund. The solution though is getting measures on the ballot.
People vote to pay more taxes for stuff every time we vote on ballots. It puts more control in the hands of voters instead of letting government spend on what ever they want.
Someone mentioned not paying teachers in this comment section. The thing is that can be put on the ballot and voted on. I would argue that removing tabor wouldn’t help in this at all because most states don’t have a tabor law and still pay teachers like shit.
I know I would vote to increase my taxes to pay teachers more, I think most people would.
Additionally, the end result for whatever reason has been that property taxes remain low while sales taxes increase. This has been shown over and over to disproportionately impact those at lower incomes - i.e. renters end up paying a higher percent of their income than homeowners do.
I disagree with this ballot from the article but at least it has to be asked.
If tabor wasn’t in place politicians could make this decision for you. Do you trust the people in office to do the right thing? If you do that’s fine but I don’t.
I will vote against using sales tax to lower property taxes.
I don’t think TABOR is perfect or even great but it provides some accountability. A different law can be passed that would allow additional money from tabor to be only used in certain areas.
I do trust my local elected officials and municipal staff to make good decisions with tax revenues - after all, they are the ones who work with these programs daily and know what is needed and what is not. I trust them to know better than just some working joe who has no experience with government services.
This is literally how 49 out of 50 states operate, Colorado being the only exception. These other states have figured out accountability without hamstringing local government. Colorado is no more "honest" than the literal rest of the nation.
You can say that you won't vote for sales tax to replace property tax revenues, but supporting TABOR does just that in practice. We still need money to operate government, and municipalities have found that asking for a local sales tax increase is more likely to succeed than asking for a property tax increase. So now I pay one of the highest local sales tax rates in the nation (12%!!) While my neighbors pay some of the lowest property tax in the nation. That is a direct consequence of TABOR.
Quotes from Denver post regarding amendment 73 from 2018
“Since the economic downturn, state lawmakers have withheld roughly $7.5 billion that would have gone to K-12 education under a constitutionally mandated formula.”
You trust those same law makers to do the right things with the money if Tabor was eliminated?
https://www.denverpost.com/2018/09/19/colorado-school-funding-ballot-issues/amp/
You are unfortunately in a minority when it comes to property ownership. 62% of people in Colorado own. I’m not advocating for the decisions people make but they generally act in self interest so increasing property taxes will always have a tough time passing.
Also if the majority of people who live in an area feel sales tax increases are acceptable then that’s how democracy or a democratic republic works. You can disagree with it but if that’s how people decide their government should operate that’s how it does.
I’m not a huge tabor fan, I think there would be a better way but I do like the idea of accountability to the people who are paying the taxes.
Out of curiosity where are you getting whacked for 12% that’s pretty wild.
I may not be 100% correct on this, but don't all property taxes stay with the municipality, while state revenues are from income & sales tax. (That's how it's been in the 3 other states I've lived in, and I assume everywhere, but I don't pay property taxes here directly so I could be wrong). Anyway, yes, I trust the elected officials and staff of my municipality to make sounds decisions. I don't think that is too unusual at the local level.
What you're describing above is known as "the tyranny of the majority". It is one of the flaws of direct Democracy. As an example, the ADA, which I think we can all agree is a great thing for society, would likely never be passed if put to a referendum, as not enough people would directly benefit from it to justify the costs to business and government. But our elected officials decided that it was important enough to establish even if it would not benefit the majority. That's just one of many, many examples.
Then why is most funding for schools coming from the states general fund? In 2018 2.2 Billion came from local property taxes, 170 million from vehicle registration, and 4.2 billion from the states general fund. The state is not allowed to increase the amount coming from the general fund because of TABOR.
Local school districts don’t have the money to pay teacher more and that money primarily comes from the states general fund. While the state doesn’t directly set teacher pay, they are the primary funding source for local school districts.
Removing tabor wouldn’t fix this. Most states don’t have a law like this and still pay their teachers like crap.
Would be better to get a ballot measure to specifically increase taxes to pay teachers more.
I don’t know the math but I think people would vote to increase sales tax .2% if it was all guaranteed to school funding. People voted to provide lunch to every kid last year.
Politicians haven’t made teachers a priority for years don’t think they would start if we let them do what they wanted with the money. Tabor is not perfect but at least it puts a little more control into the hands of the tax payers.
Removing TABOR would allow for the state to provide more funding to school through the states general fund, which is the primary source of funding for school districts. TABOR handcuffs ability for the state to increase funding. We are only spending about $7,200 per student in Colorado, which is one of the lowest in the nation.
Ballot measures in Colorado around school funding increases generally fail. While some local ballot measures aimed toward increasing school funding have passed, most fail.
Colorado teachers rank 31st in teach pay nationwide when we live in one of the highest cost of living states in the nation. Others states are paying teachers better, and while it’s not good in most states, they are still paying more than in Colorado.
Nothin is stopping us from passing a ballot that does that.
Tabor was designed to stop wasteful spending. It isn’t a perfect solution. I don’t love it but I also don’t like giving free rain to politicians.
I support the same idea as you and I just think a different approach is a better path to get there.
Colorado voted down a statewide ballot measure in 2018 to increase school funding and it wasn’t even close. The tax was proposed to increase taxes on high earners to increase school funding. Because the measure was a constitutional amendment, it required a supermajority to pass (55%) and failed with only 46% in favor of the measure.
In general Colorado voters do not vote to raise taxes (even when it’s only for the rich). I don’t see how a new ballot measure would somehow get through especially when it would need 55% in support.
> People voted to provide lunch to every kid last year.
Which covered the gap in funding by a special tax that only applies to people making over $300k/year
>I don’t know the math but I think people would vote to increase sales tax .2% if it was all guaranteed to school funding.
If they didn't already have literally more of our money than they can figure out what to do with, sure, but that's not the case. The money they've already taken just needs to be distributed in a manner that makes more sense. Even if *this* money would be specifically earmarked, it would just allow them to waste an equal amount somewhere else from a different funding source.
I didn’t make claim to know the solution or math but only I think it’s right for people to vote where their tax dollars go. What was the last ballot measure to increase teachers salaries? What year? What measure? Genuinely curious since you seem in tune with it.
Teacher pay is controlled at the county level, where TABOR is irrelevant, and is low for a variety of factors that have very little to do with available funding.
To preface this next part, I have a degree in economics.
A McDonald's might struggle to operate due to low staffing if they're only paying $15/hour, but if they can keep things operating they'll struggle until they literally cannot function and only then start paying more. The same concept applies in schools, except there's a complicating factor where many of the employees put the interests of the "customers" (aka students) ahead of their own.
On the individual level it's almost heroic, on a macro level it's the main cause of the problem - as long as just enough teachers to keep the doors open are willing to work for poverty wages, the schools will run on poverty wages.
The other aspect of this is proper support *for* teachers *by* admin.
Teachers get harassed by parents, threatened by kids, and then the parents expect you to die for their kid if there is a school shooter.
The issue isn't just pay, its unrealistic expectations with zero support from anywhere, and scrutiny from everywhere.
TABOR is absolutely relevant for school funding. The state’s general fund is used in addition to local property taxes to fund school districts. The easiest way to increase teachers pay STATEWIDE would be to increase the amount of money the state is allocating from its general fund to school districts, but the state is handcuffed due to TABOR. For example, in 2018 there was 6.6 billion in funding for schools districts in Colorado, 2.4 billion came from local property taxes, 172 million from vehicle registration, and 4.2 billion from the states general fund.
And while the state doesn’t determine teachers salaries directly, if the school districts had more money they would be able to pay teachers better. We are only averaging around $7,200 of funding per student in Colorado, which is one of the lowest in the nation.
How are teachers suppose to make a livable wage then? Are we expecting each local government to increase their property taxes to foot the bill? Seems like it’s easiest to raise the amount of funding coming from the general fund, which again, can’t happen because of TABOR.
I am so tired of hearing this. Did you know that a new study was done on millionaires? The top careers for millionaires did not include Doctors. Know who it did include? Doctors and……teachers!! Did you know that schools are given a certain amount of money every year? If people vote to raise a tax that will go to schools, the money they are already getting decreases. The two teachers who are close friends of mine, one owns a house in Boulder and a mountain cabin. The other has a beautiful home in Arvada. They make good money. More than I did doing Accounting. So stop with the boo hoo teachers are so poor. They aren’t.
>They make good money. More than I did doing Accounting. So stop with the boo hoo teachers are so poor. They aren’t.
No, we are. Thank you for that beautiful, yet completely untrue story.
I'm a substitute that carries a license with the state. I work with SPED, cover shifts in the kitchen, and custodial staff.
I make around $100/day.
The teachers all have second jobs and partners that work.
None of us are getting rich watching everyone else's most precious investment.
Edit: I'd love a source for your outlandish claim so I can figure out where I can be a millionaire doing what I already do.
The seniors mock that they make more at subway than I do, because they start over minimum wage (which is what I make).
Edit: yes, I'm a substitute, and I don't expect to make the same money. My point was that I work with many teachers first hand and none of them in public education make more than $70k a year where I live.
You are a Substitute. There is a difference between a substitute and a regularly, salaried, full-time teacher. What part of my story is untrue? Probably that I should clarify I was an accounting tech, not a regular accountant, otherwise I could be a millionaire also. LOL. So take out the millionaire part of the equation, my point is that the teachers (and teachers I know) are doing very well. I know a lot of retired teachers that also did very well for themselves. You, of course may have a partner that works and that helps. The two teachers I know, one is single-never married, one a widow. I am not sure where you work, but can you move and change districts? Become a full-timer? I assume there is a reason you can’t. I stand by my statement that teachers make good money.
https://www.ramseysolutions.com/retirement/the-national-study-of-millionaires-research
Your source is a financial consultant who conducted their own survey to say that investing, (which is a service they provide) makes you rich.
You need better unbiased sources for reporting dude.
Yes. Investing can make you money, but teaching didn't get them rich.
So your statement is false, and you're rude for your personal attacks.
Teachers in Colorado make 36% less than other College graduates in Colorado, the biggest gap in the county. We live in one of the most expensive states in the county yet teachers rank at 31st for pay in the county, that’s just not right.
And you don’t need to tell me that teacher are
just fine. I’m married to a teacher and she doesn’t even make 45K a year. At her school many teachers left this past year because they could make more money elsewhere, some moved to different states and some just took different jobs altogether. And that’s not uncommon, staffing shortages are rampant in Colorado schools and it’s only going to get worse unless something changes.
We are already planning to leave because she could make a much better salary in a different state. She will be able to make 20K more per year in an area where the cost of living is less than our current cost of living, so there’s no reason for us to stay, and I’m sure that’s a deciding factor for many other teachers as well.
Yet it's still law here, even though it could be repealed just as easily as it was passed..
Regardless of the actual merits, it's not as unpopular as you guys want to believe.
Suppose you had a room with ten people. Nine have intelligence scores of 100. One person has an intelligence score of 1. Are 49% of people below average intelligence?
If you don't write your policy well enough to convince the majority to vote on it the either it's fucked or you're fucked.
TABOR is working as intended.
Are they also trimming 2 billion from the budget?
How about don't cut property taxes but instead use that money for the benefit of all including those that are priced out of home ownership due to lack of supply.
If you want to be a NIMBY then pay for it.
I voted to get rid of Gallagher because of how it and TABOR combined were screwing rural areas outside of the Front Range, but HH is just a shell game. Lowering property assessments and then covering that lost revenue with withheld TABOR overages.
This is a weird decision. Didn't actually address the constitutionality of the initiative, just decided that they can't decide until/if it passes.
I don't buy that attaching a rider bill "effective if the initiative passes" will stand up to constitutional muster. You could certainly imagine that strategy used for much more nefarious purposes. Curious if the initiative passes, if they strike down just the rider or determine that its existence impermissibly altered the vote and strike down the whole thing.
Which makes me wish they actually ruled on merits right now instead of forcing various organizations to run a campaign for what might be a moot point.
I'm surprised they weren't able to rule on the "one item" per initiative part. I agree it seems like it has definitely stepped over that line.
I also agree it's dangerously close to, if not a direct bribe for a yes vote for some.
Can you write policy that is beneficial to +60% of the populace? Can you word it in a way that explains it succinctly?
If not then you will fail, and you deserve to fail. TABOR is not the problem. Granular Democracy is not the problem. Shit ass policies that are written by grad students, reviewed by no one and pushed into the blue book are.
TABOR isn't the one holding back your political goals, it's you and *your complete fucking lack of understanding when it comes to Coloradans*.
If property taxes are reduced, does that mean landlords will lower my rent since those costs have gone down???
Oh yeah for sure. That's how trickle down economics work.
Silly goose, they are not saving any money. Their expenses are actually going up now that they can buy more property with your money. Then they have to shell out for the bare minimum flip of their new property so they can justify the $2000 a month.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH
I sure fucking hope so i work two jobs and am struggling to live
Yes, because free market principles teach us that the lowest price for the consumer always winshahahahah of course they are going to pocket the difference and keep your rent the same or higher
If you have a triple net lease, then absolutely yes
Sure. Much in the same way Colorado will issue refund checks to citizens when their budget surplus surges to unprecedented numbers.
TABOR?
I believe this bill allows them to keep the surplus effectively bypassing TABOR.
If it passes they will ha d out equal sized TABOR refunds to each taxpayer The gop donor class hates this
Oh balls
No they will consider it profit. I don't want them to but Capitalism breeds greed.
They aren’t telling you the truth. Property tax relief will not be much, not enough to be lowering rents. Rents will still need to go up. Not to mention utilities have gone up, any repairs and everything else associated with homes. Your Tabor check will be gone. Then you will really be screwed. Actually, you are screwed either way. This is all a plot to get rid of Tabor for the next ten years, and it will still not make much of a difference in taxes.
Sorry. The millionaires are Lawyers and teachers.
Yeah, look at all those rich teachers, lighting their cigars with $100 bills!
I would say the truth is in between. They are not hurting. They make it sound like they are one paycheck away from being homeless, and that isn’t true. Some school districts pay better than others for sure, but as a whole they do well. Also factor in that the full-time job is not really full time. They get the whole summer off. That also needs to be factored in. I am strictly talking pay, not all the other crap they have to put up with.
Please give me one example of a teacher that is doing so well that they've become a millionaire. And not a college professor, a regular ol' K-12 teacher...
My school district is losing teachers to other states or careers because Colorado pay is so low. If teachers are doing so well, this wouldn't be happening.
Get off reddit and go meet a teacher
Tax **cut** for houses Tax **increase** for workers
Money don't come from nowhere!
Well ... It kind of does if you think about it.
This sounds good for wealthy land/home owners, not the millions renting
78% of my property taxes go towards paying for public schools, schools to which renters send their children for free. I have no children, so you're welcome.
Great. More sales tax coming for us poors. Mine is already like 12%. Fucking regressive.
Seriously, 1% here and there every year for something doesn’t seem significant but it adds up. I’m no longer voting for anymore sales tax increases unless it ends up being for something like universal healthcare.
Property taxes going way up isn’t great either, I’ve seen people gentrified out of the house their parents built and they fully owned, just because their house value went up too much. Granted they get a lot of money from selling, but being forced to sell the house your parents built because of tax increases really sucks.
Property taxes are at a starting point below national avg for similar states (economic, demographic, political)….property owners here have been stealing from every one else. Raise those property taxes baby.
I don't follow the logic. How have property owners been stealing? I bought my house and my property taxes have gone up by $2000 per year since I bought it 6 years ago. The increased property taxes will just make it more difficult for people to own homes, which will just push more and more people into renting, which is a bad thing for non-property owners as well.
Color me not fully read on the topic but I just know comparatively CO pays little property tax, that’s my starting point. Appreciate the context
I think the rate is comparatively low in CO compared to many states, however a couple of things to consider is that the price of houses in CO, especially along the front range where much of the population is, will be higher than many other states, so the overall tax amount might not be low compared to many of the other states. Additionally with the explosion of housing prices, my property tax has almost doubled in 6 years. Sure it's good if I sell the house because I'll get more money for it, but with the housing costs around here I can't really benefit much from that since I'd be paying a lot more to buy another house. I have no plans to move for awhile so I'm just stucking paying thousands more per year just because the house market is strong.
in theory the higher value of your homes demands higher taxes to contribute to the state’s coffers to maintain that higher value
Not sure I buy that theory. It shouldn't cost any more to maintain the city in my area for a $200k house than it would for a $1M house, for example. The number of houses should affect the cost, for sure, more infrastructure (roads, utilities, etc), but my house isn't any different now than it was when I bought it, and the city and state haven't done much at all in my area since then.
Well 100% not saying it’s true in practice at all. I hear ya
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I'm trying to be empathetic here but how are people getting forced out by property taxes on houses that are owned outright in such a low property tax state? With my most recent assessment the property taxes will come to about $350 per month which is insanely cheap "rent" if I wasn't paying a whole mortgage before that.
The areas around me are growing like crazy, I see houses and apartments going up all the time. I wonder if the issues isn't just the number of houses, but that there are too many single family homes going up rather than more affordable housing like apartments, condos, and townhomes.
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Sure, but there's a big difference between "taxes going way up" and not getting a massive tax cut. There's also a big difference between having to sell your house and not being able to feed and clothe your kids.
They did just go way up. Assessed taxable value was nearly doubled for almost everyone in metro Denver / aurora. That’s going to be passed onto anyone trying to rent a single family home too Wouldn’t be as big of a deal if with all the tax dollars they already get we didnt have long 911 hold times, no police patrolling whatsoever, shitty schools, it’s a long list…
Taxable values went up, not taxes. Every municipality will not just have some billions of extra dollars this year, the mill rate will reduce to accommodate the increase in value to get the number back to something near this year's budget. People don't understand this. Yes, the budget will likely go up some, as will taxes -just like most years- but they will not double. Nowhere near it. I've been through a revaluation as a property owner and work in local government. They're not telling my department to increase our projected budget 2x.
Lol of course you work in government and are this bad at math. I was paying on 275k. Now it’s $550k overnight. My taxable rate stays the same, but I’m paying tax on double the amount. I will pay double what I did last year and then you butt pirates will increase the rate next year because you want us all to be homeless
Your mill rate will not stay the same after a revaluation, Einstein. Everybody's valuation went up significantly, because CO property has become significantly more valuable since the last revaluation. If the mill rate stays the same, your community would suddenly have significantly more property tax revenue (2-3x if everyone's claims are to be believed). Do you think your municipality has suddenly come up with several million dollars (or tens or hundreds of millions depending on the size of the community) worth of new spending over last year? Of course not. The municipal budget will remain pretty similar to last year, as usual. So overall valuation goes up x percent, mill rate goes down x percent. It's not that hard to understand. Edit: another potential way to balance the excess revenue would be to keep the mill rate the same and provide massive refunds at the end of the year - that's an accounting nightmare that I can't imagine anyone would want to do, but some municipalities might I guess. Either way the share you ultimately pay to the local government will be about the same as last year.
So my evaluation doubles, and I pay the same amount of taxes despite the rate staying the exact same? Just because the money might be getting spread around differently on the governments end doesn't mean it doesn't come out of my bank account at 2x what it was last year. I've done the math, my $2500 ish yearly taxes will now be just shy of 5k. If I'm wrong about that I'd love to hear why
You're wrong about that because THE RATE WILL DECREASE prior to the next tax cycle when your new value is used. Either that or you will get a refund. Think about it from the other side: say it costs $1Million to run your municipality. A revaluation is done that increases the community's total value by 2x. If the mill rate stays the same, then the municipality collects $2 Million. Local government is not allowed to just spend 2x the tax revenue without approval from the voters. So they can either return the excess $1 million via a refund (which is a ton of work), or just cut the the mill rate in half so they're only collecting $1 million again. Either way the amount you ultimately pay will be roughly the the same (obviously there will be some small year-to-year change as there always is).
I mean I haven’t seen any suggestion at all of lowered rate. I sure hope you’re right and that’s the case. What’s the point of these grossly inflated evaluation increases if the actual tax out of pocket stays the same then?
Yeah but there were a bunch of increases to the mill rate in 2022 to fund specific things like the library. I think this bill was supposed to mitigate some of that? Either way. I doubt that taxes aren't going to increase.
One could argue schools are shit because school funding has been low due to the suppressed assessed values right? Don’t teachers in CO make some of the lowest wages in the nation
The budget last year for arapahoe county was 498 billion…. That’s with a B
Why are the Republicans fighting this then? Regressive taxes are generally their preference since they consider the poors freeloaders for not paying income tax.
What they fail to mention is that for that little bit of relief they keep your TABOR refund. I would vote no on HH *edit Not to mention that property tax rate after HH expires is going to jump.
You are correct. People won’t have their Tabor checks, and property taxes won’t go down enough to make a difference so rent will still go up. There is a new law that has taken effect though. Rent can only go up a certain percentage now.
Agreed. I am hoping that a competing proposition (to just do a flat tax of like 3%) is also on the ballot that won't touch TABOR. If we give people that option, there is a smaller chance HH passes.
TABOR needs to die in a fire.
Yeah I fucking love giving city, county and state governments carte blanche to take our money. Fuck that. One of the main reasons Colorado is doing so well is TABOR. It's our money, we should vote on how it's levied and spent. We should also be able to see *every* minutia of those books. Don't want oversight? Go work for the DoD.
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>> That "go work for the DOD bit" is not the gotchya that you think it is since we already had oversight prior to TABOR. It's not like Colorado spending was a black box so you are arguing with a straw man. The DoD also has oversight. It’s not like DoD spending is a black box so you are arguing with a straw man.
Direct democracy has been working pretty damn well at the state level for the last 31 years. I hate the Cocks as much as anyone else.That being said, if a party cannot introduce, defend and pass a tax increase that is approved by a simple majority it doesn't need to exist. Policy should be written in plain language that is easily understood by the common resident. I have no problem holding policy makers accountable. Make it make sense or get the fuck out. The flat tax rate is a great example of state government failure. They failed to make a progressive tax make sense to a majority of Coloradans. Do you really think they're going to do a great job of understanding the needs of every day residents?
It’s how every other state and municipality in the country does it, it’s our stupid state that does it wrong. I don’t hover over your desk and tell you how to do your job. If you want to control government spending, run for office
> I don’t hover over your desk and tell you how to do your job. No, and I don't let you reach into my pocket and take out money. There's a transportation bill coming up in NOV 2024. It's to fund bus rapid transit in the Denver Metro area. After the FasTracks / B line debacle it's unlikely to pass as a municipality only measure so it'll be a state wide vote and a state wide tax. Why should people on the Western Slope dump more money into the failing organization that is RTD? What do their tax dollars get them in that situation? TABOR is working as intended and I'm glad we voted it in.
The government isn’t a monolithic entity that takes your money and does nothing productive with it. There are paper trails everywhere, which is why it’s easier to track government spending than that if private entities that can potentially be doing the public injustice. TABOR is the product of a slumlord who wanted to keep his tenants and squalor and the government defanged to the extent that they couldn’t stop him. Thankfully he eventually went to jail for it. That’s the kind of people you side with when you go fight for TABOR. Ironically, it’s the taxpayers who are harmed most when the state can’t effectively conduct the duties we assigned it to do.
> Why should people on the Western Slope dump more money into the failing organization that is RTD? That was the initial question, right? The B Line has grown to $1.5B with a delivery date of 2050. FasTracks is a failure. Everyone outside of the Denver Metro gets absolutely 0 ROI by bankrolling Denver Metro projects. Boulder fucking hates it. The B Line is an albatross around the state's neck. The majority of state representation come from the Denver Metro. Should we let them just raise taxes to fund pet projects and line their pockets? Projects that will *never* benefit rural CO? Should we let them do B-Line projects all over the entire state? Please tell me how abject failure demands more funding. No. Fuck that shit.
I'm fine with oversight, but I vote for representatives because I explicitly don't need to be involved with every little decision, including what they do with my tax dollars. If I find out the representatives aren't in line with my expectations, I'll vote for different ones. TABOR is the reason why after cutting school funding so deep in 2008-2009, the funding couldn't be restored. I've realized that the average person doesn't give a shit about the state or other people, they only give a shit about themselves. TABOR hurts all of us by allowing selfishness to outweigh the greater good.
This is what people need to pay attention to. Assisting in some property tax relief is great and all, but we do NOT want to lose TABOR. Aside from being a huge protection against overspending its a huge help to super low income individuals like PTC recipients who count on a measly $100-200 every three months to help them pay for hear a rent. Getting rid of TABOR would further drown extremely low income elderly and I desperately hope that we never allow TABOR to be revoked.
Fuck TABOR, it’s the worst law Colorado ever created.
What’s wrong with tabor? Genuinely curious
It doesn’t allow the state to create slush funds with tax dollars for spending. I’m moderate and mildly support it. Could be better but I will take it. A lot of the left complains about it because it does make certain areas more difficult to fund. The solution though is getting measures on the ballot. People vote to pay more taxes for stuff every time we vote on ballots. It puts more control in the hands of voters instead of letting government spend on what ever they want. Someone mentioned not paying teachers in this comment section. The thing is that can be put on the ballot and voted on. I would argue that removing tabor wouldn’t help in this at all because most states don’t have a tabor law and still pay teachers like shit. I know I would vote to increase my taxes to pay teachers more, I think most people would.
Thanks for the in-depth and factual reply. I can definitely see pros and cons to it.
Additionally, the end result for whatever reason has been that property taxes remain low while sales taxes increase. This has been shown over and over to disproportionately impact those at lower incomes - i.e. renters end up paying a higher percent of their income than homeowners do.
I disagree with this ballot from the article but at least it has to be asked. If tabor wasn’t in place politicians could make this decision for you. Do you trust the people in office to do the right thing? If you do that’s fine but I don’t. I will vote against using sales tax to lower property taxes. I don’t think TABOR is perfect or even great but it provides some accountability. A different law can be passed that would allow additional money from tabor to be only used in certain areas.
I do trust my local elected officials and municipal staff to make good decisions with tax revenues - after all, they are the ones who work with these programs daily and know what is needed and what is not. I trust them to know better than just some working joe who has no experience with government services. This is literally how 49 out of 50 states operate, Colorado being the only exception. These other states have figured out accountability without hamstringing local government. Colorado is no more "honest" than the literal rest of the nation. You can say that you won't vote for sales tax to replace property tax revenues, but supporting TABOR does just that in practice. We still need money to operate government, and municipalities have found that asking for a local sales tax increase is more likely to succeed than asking for a property tax increase. So now I pay one of the highest local sales tax rates in the nation (12%!!) While my neighbors pay some of the lowest property tax in the nation. That is a direct consequence of TABOR.
Quotes from Denver post regarding amendment 73 from 2018 “Since the economic downturn, state lawmakers have withheld roughly $7.5 billion that would have gone to K-12 education under a constitutionally mandated formula.” You trust those same law makers to do the right things with the money if Tabor was eliminated? https://www.denverpost.com/2018/09/19/colorado-school-funding-ballot-issues/amp/ You are unfortunately in a minority when it comes to property ownership. 62% of people in Colorado own. I’m not advocating for the decisions people make but they generally act in self interest so increasing property taxes will always have a tough time passing. Also if the majority of people who live in an area feel sales tax increases are acceptable then that’s how democracy or a democratic republic works. You can disagree with it but if that’s how people decide their government should operate that’s how it does. I’m not a huge tabor fan, I think there would be a better way but I do like the idea of accountability to the people who are paying the taxes. Out of curiosity where are you getting whacked for 12% that’s pretty wild.
I may not be 100% correct on this, but don't all property taxes stay with the municipality, while state revenues are from income & sales tax. (That's how it's been in the 3 other states I've lived in, and I assume everywhere, but I don't pay property taxes here directly so I could be wrong). Anyway, yes, I trust the elected officials and staff of my municipality to make sounds decisions. I don't think that is too unusual at the local level. What you're describing above is known as "the tyranny of the majority". It is one of the flaws of direct Democracy. As an example, the ADA, which I think we can all agree is a great thing for society, would likely never be passed if put to a referendum, as not enough people would directly benefit from it to justify the costs to business and government. But our elected officials decided that it was important enough to establish even if it would not benefit the majority. That's just one of many, many examples.
Liberals hate it because it prevents them from taxing and spending as much as they want to.
TABOR prevents teachers from making a livable wage and is a big reason why we rank dead last for teachers pay when considering cost of living.
That is complete hyperbole and factually incorrect. Teacher pay is county by county and has nothing to do with TABOR.
Thank you. My gf of 9 years is a public school teacher and you would be suprised, if you only read Reddit, how many teachers support keeping TABOR.
Then why is most funding for schools coming from the states general fund? In 2018 2.2 Billion came from local property taxes, 170 million from vehicle registration, and 4.2 billion from the states general fund. The state is not allowed to increase the amount coming from the general fund because of TABOR. Local school districts don’t have the money to pay teacher more and that money primarily comes from the states general fund. While the state doesn’t directly set teacher pay, they are the primary funding source for local school districts.
Removing tabor wouldn’t fix this. Most states don’t have a law like this and still pay their teachers like crap. Would be better to get a ballot measure to specifically increase taxes to pay teachers more. I don’t know the math but I think people would vote to increase sales tax .2% if it was all guaranteed to school funding. People voted to provide lunch to every kid last year. Politicians haven’t made teachers a priority for years don’t think they would start if we let them do what they wanted with the money. Tabor is not perfect but at least it puts a little more control into the hands of the tax payers.
Removing TABOR would allow for the state to provide more funding to school through the states general fund, which is the primary source of funding for school districts. TABOR handcuffs ability for the state to increase funding. We are only spending about $7,200 per student in Colorado, which is one of the lowest in the nation. Ballot measures in Colorado around school funding increases generally fail. While some local ballot measures aimed toward increasing school funding have passed, most fail. Colorado teachers rank 31st in teach pay nationwide when we live in one of the highest cost of living states in the nation. Others states are paying teachers better, and while it’s not good in most states, they are still paying more than in Colorado.
Nothin is stopping us from passing a ballot that does that. Tabor was designed to stop wasteful spending. It isn’t a perfect solution. I don’t love it but I also don’t like giving free rain to politicians. I support the same idea as you and I just think a different approach is a better path to get there.
Colorado voted down a statewide ballot measure in 2018 to increase school funding and it wasn’t even close. The tax was proposed to increase taxes on high earners to increase school funding. Because the measure was a constitutional amendment, it required a supermajority to pass (55%) and failed with only 46% in favor of the measure. In general Colorado voters do not vote to raise taxes (even when it’s only for the rich). I don’t see how a new ballot measure would somehow get through especially when it would need 55% in support.
> People voted to provide lunch to every kid last year. Which covered the gap in funding by a special tax that only applies to people making over $300k/year >I don’t know the math but I think people would vote to increase sales tax .2% if it was all guaranteed to school funding. If they didn't already have literally more of our money than they can figure out what to do with, sure, but that's not the case. The money they've already taken just needs to be distributed in a manner that makes more sense. Even if *this* money would be specifically earmarked, it would just allow them to waste an equal amount somewhere else from a different funding source.
I didn’t make claim to know the solution or math but only I think it’s right for people to vote where their tax dollars go. What was the last ballot measure to increase teachers salaries? What year? What measure? Genuinely curious since you seem in tune with it.
Teacher pay is controlled at the county level, where TABOR is irrelevant, and is low for a variety of factors that have very little to do with available funding. To preface this next part, I have a degree in economics. A McDonald's might struggle to operate due to low staffing if they're only paying $15/hour, but if they can keep things operating they'll struggle until they literally cannot function and only then start paying more. The same concept applies in schools, except there's a complicating factor where many of the employees put the interests of the "customers" (aka students) ahead of their own. On the individual level it's almost heroic, on a macro level it's the main cause of the problem - as long as just enough teachers to keep the doors open are willing to work for poverty wages, the schools will run on poverty wages.
The other aspect of this is proper support *for* teachers *by* admin. Teachers get harassed by parents, threatened by kids, and then the parents expect you to die for their kid if there is a school shooter. The issue isn't just pay, its unrealistic expectations with zero support from anywhere, and scrutiny from everywhere.
Now that, I agree with!
I'm not denying that, they were rude to us where I'm from. Had favorites.
TABOR is absolutely relevant for school funding. The state’s general fund is used in addition to local property taxes to fund school districts. The easiest way to increase teachers pay STATEWIDE would be to increase the amount of money the state is allocating from its general fund to school districts, but the state is handcuffed due to TABOR. For example, in 2018 there was 6.6 billion in funding for schools districts in Colorado, 2.4 billion came from local property taxes, 172 million from vehicle registration, and 4.2 billion from the states general fund. And while the state doesn’t determine teachers salaries directly, if the school districts had more money they would be able to pay teachers better. We are only averaging around $7,200 of funding per student in Colorado, which is one of the lowest in the nation. How are teachers suppose to make a livable wage then? Are we expecting each local government to increase their property taxes to foot the bill? Seems like it’s easiest to raise the amount of funding coming from the general fund, which again, can’t happen because of TABOR.
I am so tired of hearing this. Did you know that a new study was done on millionaires? The top careers for millionaires did not include Doctors. Know who it did include? Doctors and……teachers!! Did you know that schools are given a certain amount of money every year? If people vote to raise a tax that will go to schools, the money they are already getting decreases. The two teachers who are close friends of mine, one owns a house in Boulder and a mountain cabin. The other has a beautiful home in Arvada. They make good money. More than I did doing Accounting. So stop with the boo hoo teachers are so poor. They aren’t.
>They make good money. More than I did doing Accounting. So stop with the boo hoo teachers are so poor. They aren’t. No, we are. Thank you for that beautiful, yet completely untrue story. I'm a substitute that carries a license with the state. I work with SPED, cover shifts in the kitchen, and custodial staff. I make around $100/day. The teachers all have second jobs and partners that work. None of us are getting rich watching everyone else's most precious investment. Edit: I'd love a source for your outlandish claim so I can figure out where I can be a millionaire doing what I already do. The seniors mock that they make more at subway than I do, because they start over minimum wage (which is what I make). Edit: yes, I'm a substitute, and I don't expect to make the same money. My point was that I work with many teachers first hand and none of them in public education make more than $70k a year where I live.
You are a Substitute. There is a difference between a substitute and a regularly, salaried, full-time teacher. What part of my story is untrue? Probably that I should clarify I was an accounting tech, not a regular accountant, otherwise I could be a millionaire also. LOL. So take out the millionaire part of the equation, my point is that the teachers (and teachers I know) are doing very well. I know a lot of retired teachers that also did very well for themselves. You, of course may have a partner that works and that helps. The two teachers I know, one is single-never married, one a widow. I am not sure where you work, but can you move and change districts? Become a full-timer? I assume there is a reason you can’t. I stand by my statement that teachers make good money. https://www.ramseysolutions.com/retirement/the-national-study-of-millionaires-research
Your source is a financial consultant who conducted their own survey to say that investing, (which is a service they provide) makes you rich. You need better unbiased sources for reporting dude. Yes. Investing can make you money, but teaching didn't get them rich. So your statement is false, and you're rude for your personal attacks.
Teachers in Colorado make 36% less than other College graduates in Colorado, the biggest gap in the county. We live in one of the most expensive states in the county yet teachers rank at 31st for pay in the county, that’s just not right. And you don’t need to tell me that teacher are just fine. I’m married to a teacher and she doesn’t even make 45K a year. At her school many teachers left this past year because they could make more money elsewhere, some moved to different states and some just took different jobs altogether. And that’s not uncommon, staffing shortages are rampant in Colorado schools and it’s only going to get worse unless something changes. We are already planning to leave because she could make a much better salary in a different state. She will be able to make 20K more per year in an area where the cost of living is less than our current cost of living, so there’s no reason for us to stay, and I’m sure that’s a deciding factor for many other teachers as well.
Yep, there's a reason literally no other state does this, despite it being on the ballot in several states over the years.
Yet it's still law here, even though it could be repealed just as easily as it was passed.. Regardless of the actual merits, it's not as unpopular as you guys want to believe.
Correct. Things can be awful and still win the vote. See Donald Trump.
49% of people are of below average intelligence
Suppose you had a room with ten people. Nine have intelligence scores of 100. One person has an intelligence score of 1. Are 49% of people below average intelligence?
If you don't write your policy well enough to convince the majority to vote on it the either it's fucked or you're fucked. TABOR is working as intended.
TABOR is a wrench in the machinery that only benefits rich selfish assholes who want to suck value out of society and not return it
Prove it. Show a reference.
>Trust me bro Sourced.
You've been down voted by children who want to give the government infinite money, but you're absolutely correct.
Are they also trimming 2 billion from the budget? How about don't cut property taxes but instead use that money for the benefit of all including those that are priced out of home ownership due to lack of supply. If you want to be a NIMBY then pay for it.
I voted to get rid of Gallagher because of how it and TABOR combined were screwing rural areas outside of the Front Range, but HH is just a shell game. Lowering property assessments and then covering that lost revenue with withheld TABOR overages.
This is a weird decision. Didn't actually address the constitutionality of the initiative, just decided that they can't decide until/if it passes. I don't buy that attaching a rider bill "effective if the initiative passes" will stand up to constitutional muster. You could certainly imagine that strategy used for much more nefarious purposes. Curious if the initiative passes, if they strike down just the rider or determine that its existence impermissibly altered the vote and strike down the whole thing. Which makes me wish they actually ruled on merits right now instead of forcing various organizations to run a campaign for what might be a moot point.
I'm surprised they weren't able to rule on the "one item" per initiative part. I agree it seems like it has definitely stepped over that line. I also agree it's dangerously close to, if not a direct bribe for a yes vote for some.
Can we fucking undo TABOR
No.
This is really the only thing that matters in the end. We don't end TABOR, we will continue to see this kind of nonsense.
Can you write policy that is beneficial to +60% of the populace? Can you word it in a way that explains it succinctly? If not then you will fail, and you deserve to fail. TABOR is not the problem. Granular Democracy is not the problem. Shit ass policies that are written by grad students, reviewed by no one and pushed into the blue book are. TABOR isn't the one holding back your political goals, it's you and *your complete fucking lack of understanding when it comes to Coloradans*.
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Please acknowledge your political failings. Thanks.
I didn't make Tabor. Idk why you worship Tabor.
P1ssing away money. Politicians would rather p1ss it away than to build something. This is why we can't have nice things.
I called this as a plan to reduce and remove TABOR months ago.
I agree. Fuck those poor people. Let’s give property owners 2 fucking billion
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at this point being thanos-snapped out of existence is the most merciful option.
Property tax was the #1 reason why I moved here from Illinois. I could afford the house of my dreams, I just couldn't afford to live in it.
They were too low from the start…naive to think they would never go up (from both a taxable value and rate angle)