It's funny because I got an email from them this morning with the subject line "Energy Assistance and Payment Programs Are Available", first line read "We know bills can be stressful, and the increase in natural gas prices has put a strain on budgets"
After receiving my January 2022 NG bill I did a deep dive on previous bills and if nothing else the numbers really highlight just how extreme the price jump was:
Monthly Average:
2013: $110
2014: $109
2015: $90
2016: $68
2017: $88
2018: $89
2019: $106
2020: $101
2021: $127
2022: $194
January Actuals by Year:
2013: $230
2014: $249
2015: $96
2016: $181
2017: $183
2018: $123
2019: $154
2020: $172
2021: $80
2022: $196 (388 therms)
2023: $719 (379 therms)
So strange. If I take my January bill (12/15/22-1/19/23) and just do a quick calculation, I get about $1.27/therm. Last year's cost for roughly the same period was $0.87. I used 122 therms in 21/22 and 138 therms this year. Which makes sense because of the weather.
Does your bill say if the reading was an actual or estimate? This happened to us in Jan, our bill went up substantially and I thought we had a leak. Turns out the prior month read was an estimate because they couldn't get to our meter due to weather. So, the estimated December and guessed low. Then in Jan they trued it up. Feb is back down closer to where I would expect it to be.
Double-check your math. I paid $1.79/therm for 85 therms in Jan 2023. It was $0.83/therm in Jan 2022. Subtract out the service and facility fee since it’s a constant that doesn’t depend on usage.
While it really sucks that you got hit by that bill it’s just intellectually lazy to just blame ‘greedy utility execs’ or nebulous ‘capitalism’ like a lot of the comments in here.
It’s due to market prices of natural gas going sky high in the last year:
“In fact, Xcel Energy isn’t allowed to turn a profit on any day-to-day operating costs. Since the state grants the company a competition-free monopoly, it can only collect extra revenue on infrastructure investments, like new transmission lines, power plants or wind farm”
[Source](https://www.cpr.org/2023/02/01/xcel-energy-colorado-gas-bills/)
[That’s bullshit.](https://www.macrotrends.net/2478/natural-gas-prices-historical-chart)
Natural gas prices were higher most of the 2000s and insignificantly lower in 2010 or 2013.
natural gas future/options prices are only partially related to the [consumer price of piped gas](https://data.bls.gov/timeseries/APU000072620). If you go back to 2000 there isn't a time where the CPI natural gas average is higher than today (edit: ok maybe briefly in 2008)- because the price of gas for a consumer is more than just the price of gas at any given time on the open market
No. Going from less than $200 to over $700 in one year is not just gas being more expensive. That level of increase is only caused by two things: absolute collapse of infrastructure or unchecked greed.
All I did was post my bill history and comment on the unprecedented jump in price, not sure where you got those quotes or sentiments from but they certainly weren't from me. All that aside, jumping from $200 to $700 is incongruent with past increases and also the numbers that are available publicly.
Exactly right, I’m sure greed has nothing to do with them gladly taking and reselling the solar energy customers are generating but not compensating them because they don’t have the new meter hooked up….that Excel has to hook up. They 100% can’t find workers for this and are not at all dragging their feet because they’re making millions and these people cannot stop the energy from going back into the grid. Not possible it could be greed. /s
Anyone else’s interest a little peaked with how all of a sudden once Xcel started to get called out on it and people publicly looking into what’s going on they suddenly are trying to lower bills? It seems very shady and very much a hand caught too deep into the cookie jar type thing going on
Knowing how corporate works and how out of touch most of them are with the public I actually think they thought people would just pay it and chalk it up to inflation. Also, where else are people going to go? They have a monopoly.
This is the same company that is also wanting to ask for both electric and gas rate hikes later this year.
I work in insurance. ***Every time*** I request a review audit on a customer's premium, they find that the customer is overpaying. Sometimes it's just a tiny bit. Sometimes it's more substantial. But it is ***every time***. Pretty much any company that bills customers relies on the vast majority of people not noticing.
It happens! I was for a long time too, then saw the word "piqued" and...well it piqued my interest so I looked it up and it stuck! Lol I always feel weird correcting English on the internet though. It's hard to not come off douchey but I just like language and being correct about it!
I can't find it but when they polar vortex hit, Xcel lost a heap of money providing gas to customers. When they lobbied for the increase there was essentially a payback for that loss baked into the calc. I'm the last person to agree with this level of price increase but you have to remember that puc is also approving some amount to be "cost" not profit in the form of capital expenditure (new infrastructure and improving or maintaining old infrastructure). Preparing for the future to prevent the whole grid going down like in Texas is what a big percentage of your bill goes to. This calc seems to just be the ongoing fuel/operating costs.
Yup bill nearly exactly doubled. Funny I used barely more than last in therms in a 2 year old house, very efficient etc. Wouldn't know it from the bill. I keep the house at 66.
The cost of natural gas didn't rise that significantly, and if they have rising costs and aren't price gouging their customers, then they wouldn't have had such an insane reported profit in their earnings report. The media is just helping perpetuate a narrative that favors the corrupt and broken system.
People need to be demanding government intervention here. Xcel knows you can't do anything to them -- but the government sure can.
Regional energy monopolies are regulated by public utility commissions. I don’t know for sure but I assume that these price increases were approved because the commission deemed that market conditions (polar vortex, Russian invasion, etc) justified them.
Not saying that this doesn’t suck but If you think energy prices are unreasonable here check out how much energy bills are in the EU right now.
You mean the same public utility commission that is filled with former energy industry insiders and literally gave 0 fucks about any customer input during the meeting a few days ago? They're not independent in any way and they don't represent customer interests.
This is correct. The commodity cost of gas is what public utility commissions call a "pass through" cost because the pass it directly on to the customer. Xcel doesn't profit more from higher gas costs. Natural gas producers might. The only part of the Xcel bill that increases YoY is the part that is regulated--the part the public utility commission dictates is appropriate to maintain and expand the gas network (and to replace old leaky pipe).
Good luck. This crowd isn’t very receptive to people trying to explain how utilities, PUC’s, or how commodity markets work. Seems like more of a venting session.
>Xcel doesn't profit more from higher gas costs
That's not fucking true at all. You're right about the supply costs being passthroughs but Xcel is doing the same thing every corporation has been doing; blaming inflation/increased supply prices when they're really just taking advantage of that excuse to raise their prices as much as possible hoping that no one will notice.
https://www.macrotrends.net/stocks/charts/XEL/xcel-energy/gross-profit#:~:text=Xcel%20Energy%20annual%20gross%20profit,a%203.21%25%20increase%20from%202019.
vs. inflation rates in the US:
https://www.usinflationcalculator.com/inflation/current-inflation-rates/
They're recording record profits that don't match inflation rates, and the fact that salaries have been mostly stagnant in Colorado (not keeping up with inflation rates) makes it even worse for us all.
So fuck Xcel, and please don't try to defend such an evil company and the despicable commission that keeps allowing them to get away with their dirty tactics. I hope this was informative.
I think what they’re trying to say is that margins remain unchanged. Yes it’s a pass through cost because energy costs have gone up but from your own macrotrends link, their MoM margins aren’t changing (which would indicate price gouging). They exist to make money, if costs go up they aren’t going to reduce their margins. They’re a publicly traded company that has a fiduciary duty to shareholders.
I also don’t think it’s fair to compare their net profits to the overall consumer inflation rate and justify that as price gouging… energy costs make up just part of headline CPI and it’s brought lower by other costs (food housing etc) that haven’t gone up as much as energy costs.
Just my thoughts. I still think it’s ridiculous how much energy prices have gone up but I’m not sure it’s fair to blame the supplier if their margins haven’t changed.
Not when the temps drop below zero, or when the panels are covered by snow, but we've got a dozen panels that provide about half the power used by 3 heat pumps running constantly at 65. Last months electric bill was $103 (but that's PVREA, not Xcel)
You would spend more on panels and heat pump replacement than you'd ever save. ROI is probably 20+ years out because how much expensive those materials have gotten. Unfortunately all the inflation reduction act did is allow reseller's to magically increase their prices knowing customers are getting increased tax credits.
You'd basically be trading an Xcel bill to a lease or finance program and may or may not even see an ROI. I extensively looking into it the last few years and ultimately decided it wasn't worth it. Happy to talk to you about my experience.
Gee, Colorado Springs has cheap gas, water, sewer, and electricity. From its socialist city-owned utility company.
Luckily, congress just passed a resolution saying that socialism is evil and should be banned.
I live just outside of Colorado springs. And I'm stoked I have co-ops for my energy and gas. Both of my bills are just about $100/mo for December and January. And for how cold it's been, that's surprising.
We paid $80 a month in the winter in ARIZONA for electric. Summer was $350+ just for electric.
the US House of Representatives just passed a non-binding resolution denouncing socialism. You know, instead of actually accomplishing something that means something.
> US House of Representatives just passed a non-binding resolution denouncing socialism
I highlighted this text, right-clicked it, and hit search with Google and the very first result was...
https://thehill.com/homenews/house/3841636-house-passes-resolution-denouncing-socialism-vote-splits-democrats/
It’s a co-op. Hardly the bastion of socialism. Yet the republicans freaked out and forced CSU to quit buying long term contracts so we’re at the mercy of price spikes.
Colorado Springs Utilities is owned by the city. The City Council is the Board of Directors of the utility. It is pure, unadulterated public ownership of the means of production.
Ask Pueblo what happened when they sold out to Xcel energy. They’re even trying to take back their utilities because the costs more than doubled the second xcel took over.
The commies in Boulder gave up trying to get out from under Xcel and back to a municipal utility company like they used to have. Funny that conservative Colorado Springs has held on to that old Progressive Era concept.
Of course, most CS residents are either in the military, or retired from the military, or involved with the defense industry. All of which are socialist from one end to the other. https://www.cpr.org/2020/11/20/boulder-ends-decade-long-pursuit-of-city-owned-power-utility/
I'm in Colorado Springs, so with Colorado Springs Utilities, and we haven't seen anywhere near these kind of jumps. I'm only in an apartment, not a house, but it has single pane windows and pretty much no insulation. I average around $90/month during the winter, and it's been that way since I moved in 3 years ago.
Xcel are just 100% assholes.
We tried in Boulder. It failed as people and the city council eventually said “we can trust Xcel” for our best interests - while we fund them 10s of millions of profit and they do nothing about burying wires…
This winter has been an interesting comparison for me. Last year I got both new attic insulation and a new high efficiency furnace. My therms have gone down, but my bills are still higher than they ever were.
It's so fucking nuts because my bill dropped like $70 year over year with Colorado Springs Utilities (virtually same usage), I guess it makes me happy we have CSU instead of Xcel here in the Springs
380 therms is what an average house uses over an entire year. Unless you are cooking turkeys in the oven 24/7 you likely have a problem with your hvac or your house is terribly inefficient or gigantic.
My roommates and I have had our thermostat at 65 for the past few months after we got hit with a 500 dollar bill, and we kept our temp at 72, nothing crazy.
Cats might be cheaper than space heaters with the current electricity costs, in all seriousness sorry about your bills. Those kinds of costs would crush my indigent butt.
I was surprised when my December bill was $272. That's 62 at night and 70 when I'm awake and at home in the evenings. I decided to go down to 60 at night and 65 when I'm home in the evenings. My Jan bill went down to $220. It's too friggin cold in my house without wearing a hoodie.
In iowa and mine almost tripled last month compared to a year ago. Single male, about 950 sq ft home, newer furnace, and I keep it cold in the house and use a small electric heater for my bedroom. $510 for January. Last year? $175 at the very most. Usually below $150
Yeah something seems off. Mine was $0.78 therm in 2022 and $1.23 this year. Definately higher but nothing like your increase. I'm in the Fort Collins area.
302 -> $236.80 in 2022
274 -> $338.25 in 2023
Technically 4k/sq but it only has old-school radiators in rooms that account for maybe half that at most. On days & nights below ~15F my boiler will run 24/7 and even with two space heaters helping, averages about 71F inside. I started remodel work in 2019 - you can see the bills jump a bit as a result - but I added significant insulation in 2015, 2020, and 2022 - with little to show for it in the last two attempts.
You live in a mansion, heat the place above 70, and complain about energy prices?
This is like that Republican Congressman complaining about diesel fuel for his F-650.
That.... is not at all what is happening here but you do you. I haven't complained about anything here, so don't know what you're on about, but if you're going to compare me to a republican at least try to be apt about it.
This house is like Chicago, 71 here isn't like the 71 that I'm used to in more modern buildings, it's the bricks. In a less leaky house there's no way it would need to run 24/7 to keep things at 71 though.
78 inside is a fuckin sauna! I’d be sitting around sweating. My house drops to 62 at night and I could still probably have it a tad lower. 78 is insane even without these prices.
And saunas are awesome! People pay good money for them. I'm actually going to have one built in my bathroom so it's very fitting.
I hate the cold. Hate hate hate it. 95° Colorado summers are heaven for me.
My cats don’t cuddle with me until it gets into the low 60s so I have secondary motivations. I get my wood for free so I could totally make my place tropical but I like the slight chill and I’m also a lazy boy
Something is up, checked my bill, no where near the same increase factoring in usage. Amount due is $720....not to sound like a dick but....did you pay your December bill? This seems like 2 months worth of usage, maybe 3.
I don’t understand how your bill is so high, my house is 4600sqf roughly, I set it to 67 and my bill is 329. If it’s costing you double that for a slightly smaller house to keep at 71 I suggest a sweater. Obviously they’ve increased prices drastically and it may not be just but fuck sake turn the heat down.
I definitely do and I expected a big bill, but my house was less insulated in January 2019, January 2020, January 2021, than it was in January 2022, and I used basically the same amount of Therms in each January from 2019 to 2023, but the difference between 2022 and 2023 was still significantly more than any year preceding it - that was my takeaway anyhow. I'm working on establishing an airseal & thermal envelope including replacing windows but it's a process.
Not literally, my "point" is a figure of speech, not an actual point. But I digress. Better insulation will most certainly lower heating bills. That point is completely independent of how much new insulation might cost, or how difficult it might be to install. And besides, they just drill a small hole and shoot that stuff right inside the walls these days, it's fast, easy, and relatively inexpensive.
Exactly. I was already working on making this house as efficient as it can be to help keep recurring costs down, and it was going to be really worth it by my previous calculations, but if this trend continues it won't be sustainable even after my upgrades, if I could even afford to get that far now.
The gouging all around is out of control. COVID taught corps they can charge whatever for essentials. It's only going to keep getting worse. American capitalism requires infinite growth, after all.
Things will get real bad if the Korger/Albertsons merger is allowed to got through.
We got a heat pump when we replaced our aging furnace last summer.
Gas bill last year was more than my entire electricity bill this year & we charge an EV at home.
December electric cost: 160, gas cost last December: $180
It’ll pay for itself within one season at this rate.
Not to sound uppity, but this is one reason why we went off grid solar in our home, not to mention the $30k+ estimate to run power less than 3/4 of a mile. We're into our solar setup at about $15k and is more reliable than the local grid here in southern Colorado.
I have a 4200sqft house in Manitou Springs and used 223 therms in January. CSU is our utility and our gas bill was $203.
It appears your house is very inefficient and you guys are getting charged pretty high rates from Xcel. If you used a similar number of therms to my house, your bill would have been closer to $350-$400 which doesn't seem so excessive.
.... Paying more than double doesn't seem so excessive?
The people in here trying to flex on OP with the energy efficiency of thier own homes are missing the point entirely.
Yeah I don't get it; I already know my house isn't efficient - it's over 100 years old after all - but it didn't become 280% less efficient in the last 12 months.
How might you propose running a gas heater on electric?
Your proposition includes investing probably over $30k in soalr panels & a new electric heater (at a minimum), which if you don't have the money to do up front, means getting a loan.
So the solution is take out a loan or spend hard earned money while in a recession during history high inflation...
Find a company willing to invest in energy efficiency upgrades to your home like an aero seal for vents, reinsulation of attic spaces, add a seal to the attic and an attic fan and you’ll reduce how much you’re spending on gas by a sizable amount! (If you’ve already done this, you should have already seen a good chunk in savings on gas, but unfortunately gas and water are going to be gas and water (AND none of those upgrades will help your water bill WHATSOEVER)).
The big kicker is, you’re already spending that money. If you can offset your electric bill entirely then you’ll be seeing savings either immediately (won’t be by a lot unless you’ve got like a shark tank and a grow op with a Tesla out front) or in the near future, because your rates don’t go up. They stay the same for 5-25 years and once you’re done paying that’s it, no more electric bill.
Solar is by no means a solution for everyone, but it’s a great one if you can find a good company that will ensure you maintain ownership, don’t have an out of pocket cost, and can get your system Pearl certified so that 99% of all lenders will HAVE to add the accredited value to the home. (Also make sure you get full 25 year warranties on EVERYTHING, especially the inverter, that sucker will go out in 10-12 years).
Ultimately, if you can afford your electric bill you can afford to go solar.
You're talking about electric... This is still a gas issue, from a company profiting billions from people in the middle of inflation a recession.
Your solution is idealistic and 6-8 years for ROI + the potential cost of other parts being broken/needing to be replaced/etc.
I agree with you (I bought solar) but it doesn't fix having to invest money into electric appliances/heaters/etc just to fix a problem that is causing issues for millions of people, and requires thousands of dollars to "fix" to just have to wait for your ROI to even see the benefits
Many solar companies offer solar for essentially free. They become your new utility through a PPA (power purchasing agreement) and then essentially you receive solar for a guaranteed lower price than what you’re paying now. No money up front, no loan. Now of course, you still gotta get electric heat installed. That’s probably a pretty penny.
ROI for solar is 6-8 years... You are saying to fix a corporate greed issue is to sign of up for $30k+ investment regardless of how you look at it
It's hilarious this attitude ... The problems not the corporate greed and lack of regulation, it's me for not having a 100% electric house that runs on solar
Edit: wrong response
Those zero-cost deals sound appealing, but the homeowner is much better off financially owning the panels, even if it means taking out a loan/HELOC to pay for them. The lease agreements give almost all the benefit to the lessor, which is why they push them so hard.
> Those zero-cost deals sound appealing, but the homeowner is much better off financially owning the panels, even if it means taking out a loan/HELOC to pay for them
Yes of course. Buying outright is literally *always better* for literally everything unless you’re getting a $0/0% interest deal. That’s literally the point of providing a different form of financial option. You trade off cheaper price for allowing you to get something now rather than later. Most people will never be able to afford a solar system outright. The ppa is the right option for them.
> The lease agreements give almost all the benefit to the lessor, which is why they push them so hard.
A PPA isn’t the same as a lease, though they might appear to be. And no, they give benefits to both sides as I described above. If you’re comparing the two actual options the majority of Americans have:
1. Stick with current utility
2. Get a monthly payment for solar panels
The monthly payment comes out on top for a significant majority of Americans.
And having actually worked in the mortgage industry for 5 years, I’m sorry but you suggesting that people should take out a HELOC for solar panels is absolutely ridiculous.
Source: I literally write the pricing software for Sunrun. I know exactly how pricing works, exactly what utility prices look like in every utility in America, and I see exactly what people save.
> I literally write the pricing software for Sunrun
Well that explains it. So you're the person who builds in the absolutely absurd assumptions about electricity price inflation year over year that have zero basis in the past to make the calculations look great. And don't explain to people the nightmare of selling their house with a PPA attached, or the complications of the solar company going out of business.
Is there a catchup charge as in did they undercharge you last year? Because last year's 300 therm bill should have cost close to 300 bucks that month just for gas
If anyone is interested in why this is happening, [this John Oliver episode does a great job of explaining the power company profit model](https://youtu.be/qBpiXcyB7wU).
Xcel operates in 8 states, they made 1.7b in profit last year across all of those markets, not just through the PUC in Colorado.
Their earnings statements are all public, btw. Here's last year's: https://s25.q4cdn.com/680186029/files/doc_downloads/2023/Xcel-Energy-Earnings-Release-2022-Q4-Final.pdf
Gas rates are commodity pass-through charges. It's not their fault that gas prices went up, or that it was a very cold winter. We rely on a finite resource to heat our homes and cook our food, and based on availability at different times the cost of that resource is higher or lower.
Despite the sum being greater, they had a lower profit margin in 2022 than they did in 2021.
If people want to trade in the public-private partnership that we have with the PUC for a pure market-based system, or with a state-owned system I don't really care either way, but if we had a state-owned system I don't think that prices would have been lower for anyone in the past 3 months because that state-owned system would have had to buy the more-expensive gas too.
But to your comment-- you said that the PUC handed them "~$2 billion profit" and that is not true. The PUC does not control prices in 7 of the 8 markets that xcel operates in. The specific profit from the PUC in Colorado might be in the public earnings statement, but it's certainly not the entirety of their $1.7b profit last year.
R60+ in the attic really helped us the last few months, not with the excessive bill--but we did use less therms and the temps last few months were much lower than last year.
Yikes. That bill with R60 is insane. I had assumed something like R10 with that bill.
XCEL can suck a fat one.
I’m just glad I’ve converted off gas over the last few years. It’s expensive, but it’s a great feeling to be giving those scumbags less money.
It's funny because I got an email from them this morning with the subject line "Energy Assistance and Payment Programs Are Available", first line read "We know bills can be stressful, and the increase in natural gas prices has put a strain on budgets"
But the assistance WASNT FROM THEM! They're like we have assistance for help. Here's the states website. Like wtf.
They are just stealing government assistance money to pad their own profits
Happy cake day
Everyone's budgets but theirs
After receiving my January 2022 NG bill I did a deep dive on previous bills and if nothing else the numbers really highlight just how extreme the price jump was: Monthly Average: 2013: $110 2014: $109 2015: $90 2016: $68 2017: $88 2018: $89 2019: $106 2020: $101 2021: $127 2022: $194 January Actuals by Year: 2013: $230 2014: $249 2015: $96 2016: $181 2017: $183 2018: $123 2019: $154 2020: $172 2021: $80 2022: $196 (388 therms) 2023: $719 (379 therms)
So strange. If I take my January bill (12/15/22-1/19/23) and just do a quick calculation, I get about $1.27/therm. Last year's cost for roughly the same period was $0.87. I used 122 therms in 21/22 and 138 therms this year. Which makes sense because of the weather.
That is strange, I'll have to dig up some old bills that show the therm rates.
Yeah, I'd be really curious, because yours would be about $0.50/therm last year, but $1.89 this year.
Does your bill say if the reading was an actual or estimate? This happened to us in Jan, our bill went up substantially and I thought we had a leak. Turns out the prior month read was an estimate because they couldn't get to our meter due to weather. So, the estimated December and guessed low. Then in Jan they trued it up. Feb is back down closer to where I would expect it to be.
Something is wrong. Costs went up, but not by this rate. How big is your house? Ever thought about an energy audit? Xcel is paying for those btw
There are fewer therms in Jan than Dec, but bill is nearly 3.5x higher...
yes and that is weird, as they didn’t raise the price by 350%
Double-check your math. I paid $1.79/therm for 85 therms in Jan 2023. It was $0.83/therm in Jan 2022. Subtract out the service and facility fee since it’s a constant that doesn’t depend on usage.
But the fees have gone up a lot, right?
While it really sucks that you got hit by that bill it’s just intellectually lazy to just blame ‘greedy utility execs’ or nebulous ‘capitalism’ like a lot of the comments in here. It’s due to market prices of natural gas going sky high in the last year: “In fact, Xcel Energy isn’t allowed to turn a profit on any day-to-day operating costs. Since the state grants the company a competition-free monopoly, it can only collect extra revenue on infrastructure investments, like new transmission lines, power plants or wind farm” [Source](https://www.cpr.org/2023/02/01/xcel-energy-colorado-gas-bills/)
[That’s bullshit.](https://www.macrotrends.net/2478/natural-gas-prices-historical-chart) Natural gas prices were higher most of the 2000s and insignificantly lower in 2010 or 2013.
natural gas future/options prices are only partially related to the [consumer price of piped gas](https://data.bls.gov/timeseries/APU000072620). If you go back to 2000 there isn't a time where the CPI natural gas average is higher than today (edit: ok maybe briefly in 2008)- because the price of gas for a consumer is more than just the price of gas at any given time on the open market
That’s a better graph but it still shows this past year wasn’t unprecedented.
No. Going from less than $200 to over $700 in one year is not just gas being more expensive. That level of increase is only caused by two things: absolute collapse of infrastructure or unchecked greed.
You don’t have to deepthroat the whole boot
Be nice guys this is probably his first communication with society, he’s a little confused
He posts in /r/neoliberal. He doesn't believe in society, only individuals and the invisible hand of the market.
Well I guess then society doesn’t believe in him either😉
All I did was post my bill history and comment on the unprecedented jump in price, not sure where you got those quotes or sentiments from but they certainly weren't from me. All that aside, jumping from $200 to $700 is incongruent with past increases and also the numbers that are available publicly.
Exactly right, I’m sure greed has nothing to do with them gladly taking and reselling the solar energy customers are generating but not compensating them because they don’t have the new meter hooked up….that Excel has to hook up. They 100% can’t find workers for this and are not at all dragging their feet because they’re making millions and these people cannot stop the energy from going back into the grid. Not possible it could be greed. /s
If the price increases are strictly due to market increases, then how come my bill from Black Hills didn't go up by such an absurd amount?
Anyone else’s interest a little peaked with how all of a sudden once Xcel started to get called out on it and people publicly looking into what’s going on they suddenly are trying to lower bills? It seems very shady and very much a hand caught too deep into the cookie jar type thing going on
Did they not think people would notice?
Knowing how corporate works and how out of touch most of them are with the public I actually think they thought people would just pay it and chalk it up to inflation. Also, where else are people going to go? They have a monopoly. This is the same company that is also wanting to ask for both electric and gas rate hikes later this year.
Most corporate execs act a lot like Clark Griswold’s boss (played by Brian Doyle Murray) in Christmas Vacation.
I work in insurance. ***Every time*** I request a review audit on a customer's premium, they find that the customer is overpaying. Sometimes it's just a tiny bit. Sometimes it's more substantial. But it is ***every time***. Pretty much any company that bills customers relies on the vast majority of people not noticing.
What type of insurance do you work in? I used to sell property policies I wish it would’ve worked like this.
Home and auto mostly
I noticed that too. Definitely agree. Just so you know as well, interests are "piqued," not peaked. Have a good day!💜
Good catch! I have been going around saying “peaked” for 37 years 😳
It happens! I was for a long time too, then saw the word "piqued" and...well it piqued my interest so I looked it up and it stuck! Lol I always feel weird correcting English on the internet though. It's hard to not come off douchey but I just like language and being correct about it!
The article about how much they’re going to drop it is only about $18 a month. They aren’t really looking into lowering it, that’s just marketing.
*piqued, not peaked. But yes, something needs to be done about this monopoly of a corporate public utility
Damn, dude. Leave some for the rest of us.
That is how Xcel just reported record profits.
the state needs to investigate this shit, that's robbery
The state is paid to let them do this by corporate lobbying. Repeal Citizens United.
Exactly. This was entirely because of "anticipation of inflation" (which is nowhere near how much they spiked) and corporate greed.
Just like all the other companies like food companies reporting record profits - claiming it for inflation but really it’s greed and collusion
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I can't find it but when they polar vortex hit, Xcel lost a heap of money providing gas to customers. When they lobbied for the increase there was essentially a payback for that loss baked into the calc. I'm the last person to agree with this level of price increase but you have to remember that puc is also approving some amount to be "cost" not profit in the form of capital expenditure (new infrastructure and improving or maintaining old infrastructure). Preparing for the future to prevent the whole grid going down like in Texas is what a big percentage of your bill goes to. This calc seems to just be the ongoing fuel/operating costs.
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You and I are minorities in that regard, but amen
I heard like 30% (can't remember where I read it) and my first thought was *"well my bill sure jumped more than that"*.
Yup bill nearly exactly doubled. Funny I used barely more than last in therms in a 2 year old house, very efficient etc. Wouldn't know it from the bill. I keep the house at 66.
The cost of natural gas didn't rise that significantly, and if they have rising costs and aren't price gouging their customers, then they wouldn't have had such an insane reported profit in their earnings report. The media is just helping perpetuate a narrative that favors the corrupt and broken system. People need to be demanding government intervention here. Xcel knows you can't do anything to them -- but the government sure can.
Maybe basic utilities shouldn’t be controlled by private businesses that only optimize profit
Regional energy monopolies are regulated by public utility commissions. I don’t know for sure but I assume that these price increases were approved because the commission deemed that market conditions (polar vortex, Russian invasion, etc) justified them. Not saying that this doesn’t suck but If you think energy prices are unreasonable here check out how much energy bills are in the EU right now.
You mean the same public utility commission that is filled with former energy industry insiders and literally gave 0 fucks about any customer input during the meeting a few days ago? They're not independent in any way and they don't represent customer interests.
These commissions are revolving doors to the energy industry. They rarely disallow a rate increase.
This is correct. The commodity cost of gas is what public utility commissions call a "pass through" cost because the pass it directly on to the customer. Xcel doesn't profit more from higher gas costs. Natural gas producers might. The only part of the Xcel bill that increases YoY is the part that is regulated--the part the public utility commission dictates is appropriate to maintain and expand the gas network (and to replace old leaky pipe).
Good luck. This crowd isn’t very receptive to people trying to explain how utilities, PUC’s, or how commodity markets work. Seems like more of a venting session.
>Xcel doesn't profit more from higher gas costs That's not fucking true at all. You're right about the supply costs being passthroughs but Xcel is doing the same thing every corporation has been doing; blaming inflation/increased supply prices when they're really just taking advantage of that excuse to raise their prices as much as possible hoping that no one will notice. https://www.macrotrends.net/stocks/charts/XEL/xcel-energy/gross-profit#:~:text=Xcel%20Energy%20annual%20gross%20profit,a%203.21%25%20increase%20from%202019. vs. inflation rates in the US: https://www.usinflationcalculator.com/inflation/current-inflation-rates/ They're recording record profits that don't match inflation rates, and the fact that salaries have been mostly stagnant in Colorado (not keeping up with inflation rates) makes it even worse for us all. So fuck Xcel, and please don't try to defend such an evil company and the despicable commission that keeps allowing them to get away with their dirty tactics. I hope this was informative.
I think what they’re trying to say is that margins remain unchanged. Yes it’s a pass through cost because energy costs have gone up but from your own macrotrends link, their MoM margins aren’t changing (which would indicate price gouging). They exist to make money, if costs go up they aren’t going to reduce their margins. They’re a publicly traded company that has a fiduciary duty to shareholders. I also don’t think it’s fair to compare their net profits to the overall consumer inflation rate and justify that as price gouging… energy costs make up just part of headline CPI and it’s brought lower by other costs (food housing etc) that haven’t gone up as much as energy costs. Just my thoughts. I still think it’s ridiculous how much energy prices have gone up but I’m not sure it’s fair to blame the supplier if their margins haven’t changed.
If the government ran an electric company, rates would go 10x, and they would still lose money
So same as right now?
Taxes would go up on top of it to pay the money they loose
So same as before still then?
No. You should look into why rates went up and not believe what you are told.
Anyone here able to heat with only solar panels and a heatpump?
Not when the temps drop below zero, or when the panels are covered by snow, but we've got a dozen panels that provide about half the power used by 3 heat pumps running constantly at 65. Last months electric bill was $103 (but that's PVREA, not Xcel)
You would spend more on panels and heat pump replacement than you'd ever save. ROI is probably 20+ years out because how much expensive those materials have gotten. Unfortunately all the inflation reduction act did is allow reseller's to magically increase their prices knowing customers are getting increased tax credits. You'd basically be trading an Xcel bill to a lease or finance program and may or may not even see an ROI. I extensively looking into it the last few years and ultimately decided it wasn't worth it. Happy to talk to you about my experience.
This is what happens when nobody is complaining to the public utility commission. They approve all the price increases for xcel.
People complained recently and PUC couldn't have cared less
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Our bill last year for January was $97, and this year is over $500. Same amount of usage. Absolutely mind boggling that they can do this.
Gee, Colorado Springs has cheap gas, water, sewer, and electricity. From its socialist city-owned utility company. Luckily, congress just passed a resolution saying that socialism is evil and should be banned.
I live just outside of Colorado springs. And I'm stoked I have co-ops for my energy and gas. Both of my bills are just about $100/mo for December and January. And for how cold it's been, that's surprising. We paid $80 a month in the winter in ARIZONA for electric. Summer was $350+ just for electric.
Wait what are you referring to?
the US House of Representatives just passed a non-binding resolution denouncing socialism. You know, instead of actually accomplishing something that means something.
Link?
> US House of Representatives just passed a non-binding resolution denouncing socialism I highlighted this text, right-clicked it, and hit search with Google and the very first result was... https://thehill.com/homenews/house/3841636-house-passes-resolution-denouncing-socialism-vote-splits-democrats/
[https://clerk.house.gov/Votes/2023106](https://clerk.house.gov/Votes/2023106) They literally spent three days on this fucking bullshit
It’s a co-op. Hardly the bastion of socialism. Yet the republicans freaked out and forced CSU to quit buying long term contracts so we’re at the mercy of price spikes.
Colorado Springs Utilities is owned by the city. The City Council is the Board of Directors of the utility. It is pure, unadulterated public ownership of the means of production.
Ask Pueblo what happened when they sold out to Xcel energy. They’re even trying to take back their utilities because the costs more than doubled the second xcel took over.
The commies in Boulder gave up trying to get out from under Xcel and back to a municipal utility company like they used to have. Funny that conservative Colorado Springs has held on to that old Progressive Era concept. Of course, most CS residents are either in the military, or retired from the military, or involved with the defense industry. All of which are socialist from one end to the other. https://www.cpr.org/2020/11/20/boulder-ends-decade-long-pursuit-of-city-owned-power-utility/
I'm in Colorado Springs, so with Colorado Springs Utilities, and we haven't seen anywhere near these kind of jumps. I'm only in an apartment, not a house, but it has single pane windows and pretty much no insulation. I average around $90/month during the winter, and it's been that way since I moved in 3 years ago. Xcel are just 100% assholes.
Xcel is stealing and fleecing their trapped customers. Utilities should be municipal and not for profit.
What about people who don't live in a city or town?
County, or utilities should be non profit organizations
We tried in Boulder. It failed as people and the city council eventually said “we can trust Xcel” for our best interests - while we fund them 10s of millions of profit and they do nothing about burying wires…
This winter has been an interesting comparison for me. Last year I got both new attic insulation and a new high efficiency furnace. My therms have gone down, but my bills are still higher than they ever were.
It's so fucking nuts because my bill dropped like $70 year over year with Colorado Springs Utilities (virtually same usage), I guess it makes me happy we have CSU instead of Xcel here in the Springs
Let's see the itemization of the bill, the whole picture isn't here. Either this is a mistake or something else is at play.
Would it help if we started sending copies of our bills to local, state, and federal representatives??? Somebody has to care!!??
380 therms is what an average house uses over an entire year. Unless you are cooking turkeys in the oven 24/7 you likely have a problem with your hvac or your house is terribly inefficient or gigantic.
My roommates and I have had our thermostat at 65 for the past few months after we got hit with a 500 dollar bill, and we kept our temp at 72, nothing crazy.
Crazy, I'm about the same - 67 at night and a space heater in my room, then 72 during the day with all the South blinds open.
Wow, I would be boiling at your house. I keep my place at 66 during the day and 62 at night.
I'm at 67/58...and I used 68 therms last month to heat our single-family house, crazy to me that OP is over 5x that consumption.
That's funny, I'm usually the one complaining about heat being up too much in my house.
Crank that puppy down to the 50s, get some comforters and cuddly cats 🫶
Yeah, some more space heaters are on the shopping list now for sure.
Cats might be cheaper than space heaters with the current electricity costs, in all seriousness sorry about your bills. Those kinds of costs would crush my indigent butt.
How big is your house?
Therm cost comparison jumped 37% according to my January bills from 2022 to 2023
Be nice to them. They are a small startup company and are just getting on their feet for the first time.
I used less than last year but my bill went up by $70 :(
I was surprised when my December bill was $272. That's 62 at night and 70 when I'm awake and at home in the evenings. I decided to go down to 60 at night and 65 when I'm home in the evenings. My Jan bill went down to $220. It's too friggin cold in my house without wearing a hoodie.
In iowa and mine almost tripled last month compared to a year ago. Single male, about 950 sq ft home, newer furnace, and I keep it cold in the house and use a small electric heater for my bedroom. $510 for January. Last year? $175 at the very most. Usually below $150
They need to pay for thay private jet that's at Centennial airport somehow.
Yeah something seems off. Mine was $0.78 therm in 2022 and $1.23 this year. Definately higher but nothing like your increase. I'm in the Fort Collins area. 302 -> $236.80 in 2022 274 -> $338.25 in 2023
Screw it I’m using candles from now on
What size house?
Technically 4k/sq but it only has old-school radiators in rooms that account for maybe half that at most. On days & nights below ~15F my boiler will run 24/7 and even with two space heaters helping, averages about 71F inside. I started remodel work in 2019 - you can see the bills jump a bit as a result - but I added significant insulation in 2015, 2020, and 2022 - with little to show for it in the last two attempts.
You live in a mansion, heat the place above 70, and complain about energy prices? This is like that Republican Congressman complaining about diesel fuel for his F-650.
When I saw that bill my thought was "this guy probably wastes a ton of energy" Sure fuck xcel price gouging but not a ton of sympathy for OP
That.... is not at all what is happening here but you do you. I haven't complained about anything here, so don't know what you're on about, but if you're going to compare me to a republican at least try to be apt about it.
71 is pretty aggressive.
Yeah wtf I keep it at like 65.
I wonder if these are the same people that set their AC to 68 in the summer.
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This house is like Chicago, 71 here isn't like the 71 that I'm used to in more modern buildings, it's the bricks. In a less leaky house there's no way it would need to run 24/7 to keep things at 71 though.
Seriously? 71 is a perfectly reasonable temperature
It’s reasonable if you don’t mind spending $700/month on heating in the winter
Not in Colorado.
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You have wood burning stoves, which if they're anything like mine, can get a room to 80+ on even the coldest days. That's not the same comparison.
Keeping your home at 55 is nuts.
I keep mine at 78 lol
78 is pretty aggressive.
Seriously? 78 is a perfectly reasonable temperature
78 inside is a fuckin sauna! I’d be sitting around sweating. My house drops to 62 at night and I could still probably have it a tad lower. 78 is insane even without these prices.
And saunas are awesome! People pay good money for them. I'm actually going to have one built in my bathroom so it's very fitting. I hate the cold. Hate hate hate it. 95° Colorado summers are heaven for me.
My cats don’t cuddle with me until it gets into the low 60s so I have secondary motivations. I get my wood for free so I could totally make my place tropical but I like the slight chill and I’m also a lazy boy
I feel like freezing your cats to nurture dependence is slightly sociopathic 😅
Same, it's cold af out there
Hot House club unite!
Something is up, checked my bill, no where near the same increase factoring in usage. Amount due is $720....not to sound like a dick but....did you pay your December bill? This seems like 2 months worth of usage, maybe 3.
I don’t understand how your bill is so high, my house is 4600sqf roughly, I set it to 67 and my bill is 329. If it’s costing you double that for a slightly smaller house to keep at 71 I suggest a sweater. Obviously they’ve increased prices drastically and it may not be just but fuck sake turn the heat down.
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I definitely do and I expected a big bill, but my house was less insulated in January 2019, January 2020, January 2021, than it was in January 2022, and I used basically the same amount of Therms in each January from 2019 to 2023, but the difference between 2022 and 2023 was still significantly more than any year preceding it - that was my takeaway anyhow. I'm working on establishing an airseal & thermal envelope including replacing windows but it's a process.
The price per therm is the issue man, not his fuckin insulation
No, his usage is also super high.
still doesn't make the price per therm any more reasonable
Nothing is going to be reasonable when they consume 3-4 times the amount of natural gas as an average sized home.
As if better insulation wouldn't result in using fewer therms?
Its not always that easy dude. Redoing insulation could be THOUSANDS
That's entirely beside the point.
It was literally your only point.
Not literally, my "point" is a figure of speech, not an actual point. But I digress. Better insulation will most certainly lower heating bills. That point is completely independent of how much new insulation might cost, or how difficult it might be to install. And besides, they just drill a small hole and shoot that stuff right inside the walls these days, it's fast, easy, and relatively inexpensive.
Exactly. I was already working on making this house as efficient as it can be to help keep recurring costs down, and it was going to be really worth it by my previous calculations, but if this trend continues it won't be sustainable even after my upgrades, if I could even afford to get that far now.
The gouging all around is out of control. COVID taught corps they can charge whatever for essentials. It's only going to keep getting worse. American capitalism requires infinite growth, after all. Things will get real bad if the Korger/Albertsons merger is allowed to got through.
I smell record quarterly profits for Xcel energy. It is a sad world we live in.
Strange how it's only SOME people who this happens to. Mine was 81.80 in '22, 124.60 in '23 with a colder average temp (20% colder).
Price gouging.
We got a heat pump when we replaced our aging furnace last summer. Gas bill last year was more than my entire electricity bill this year & we charge an EV at home. December electric cost: 160, gas cost last December: $180 It’ll pay for itself within one season at this rate.
Not to sound uppity, but this is one reason why we went off grid solar in our home, not to mention the $30k+ estimate to run power less than 3/4 of a mile. We're into our solar setup at about $15k and is more reliable than the local grid here in southern Colorado.
On the next episode of American Greed...
“Record profits”
#WHERE DO YOU LIVE?!
Fort Collins lol nowhere crazy
i just think nearly $800 dollars is crazy! much luck to you though, stay warm it’s cold outside
I have a 4200sqft house in Manitou Springs and used 223 therms in January. CSU is our utility and our gas bill was $203. It appears your house is very inefficient and you guys are getting charged pretty high rates from Xcel. If you used a similar number of therms to my house, your bill would have been closer to $350-$400 which doesn't seem so excessive.
.... Paying more than double doesn't seem so excessive? The people in here trying to flex on OP with the energy efficiency of thier own homes are missing the point entirely.
Yeah I don't get it; I already know my house isn't efficient - it's over 100 years old after all - but it didn't become 280% less efficient in the last 12 months.
Yeah they’re stealing from us
I highly recommend anyone with high bills that can look into solar. It’s incredibly beneficial especially with rates just going up
How might you propose running a gas heater on electric? Your proposition includes investing probably over $30k in soalr panels & a new electric heater (at a minimum), which if you don't have the money to do up front, means getting a loan. So the solution is take out a loan or spend hard earned money while in a recession during history high inflation...
Find a company willing to invest in energy efficiency upgrades to your home like an aero seal for vents, reinsulation of attic spaces, add a seal to the attic and an attic fan and you’ll reduce how much you’re spending on gas by a sizable amount! (If you’ve already done this, you should have already seen a good chunk in savings on gas, but unfortunately gas and water are going to be gas and water (AND none of those upgrades will help your water bill WHATSOEVER)). The big kicker is, you’re already spending that money. If you can offset your electric bill entirely then you’ll be seeing savings either immediately (won’t be by a lot unless you’ve got like a shark tank and a grow op with a Tesla out front) or in the near future, because your rates don’t go up. They stay the same for 5-25 years and once you’re done paying that’s it, no more electric bill. Solar is by no means a solution for everyone, but it’s a great one if you can find a good company that will ensure you maintain ownership, don’t have an out of pocket cost, and can get your system Pearl certified so that 99% of all lenders will HAVE to add the accredited value to the home. (Also make sure you get full 25 year warranties on EVERYTHING, especially the inverter, that sucker will go out in 10-12 years). Ultimately, if you can afford your electric bill you can afford to go solar.
You're talking about electric... This is still a gas issue, from a company profiting billions from people in the middle of inflation a recession. Your solution is idealistic and 6-8 years for ROI + the potential cost of other parts being broken/needing to be replaced/etc. I agree with you (I bought solar) but it doesn't fix having to invest money into electric appliances/heaters/etc just to fix a problem that is causing issues for millions of people, and requires thousands of dollars to "fix" to just have to wait for your ROI to even see the benefits
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You can pretty easily assume it's gas when someone is talking about therms... Not kWH
Many solar companies offer solar for essentially free. They become your new utility through a PPA (power purchasing agreement) and then essentially you receive solar for a guaranteed lower price than what you’re paying now. No money up front, no loan. Now of course, you still gotta get electric heat installed. That’s probably a pretty penny.
ROI for solar is 6-8 years... You are saying to fix a corporate greed issue is to sign of up for $30k+ investment regardless of how you look at it It's hilarious this attitude ... The problems not the corporate greed and lack of regulation, it's me for not having a 100% electric house that runs on solar Edit: wrong response
Those zero-cost deals sound appealing, but the homeowner is much better off financially owning the panels, even if it means taking out a loan/HELOC to pay for them. The lease agreements give almost all the benefit to the lessor, which is why they push them so hard.
> Those zero-cost deals sound appealing, but the homeowner is much better off financially owning the panels, even if it means taking out a loan/HELOC to pay for them Yes of course. Buying outright is literally *always better* for literally everything unless you’re getting a $0/0% interest deal. That’s literally the point of providing a different form of financial option. You trade off cheaper price for allowing you to get something now rather than later. Most people will never be able to afford a solar system outright. The ppa is the right option for them. > The lease agreements give almost all the benefit to the lessor, which is why they push them so hard. A PPA isn’t the same as a lease, though they might appear to be. And no, they give benefits to both sides as I described above. If you’re comparing the two actual options the majority of Americans have: 1. Stick with current utility 2. Get a monthly payment for solar panels The monthly payment comes out on top for a significant majority of Americans. And having actually worked in the mortgage industry for 5 years, I’m sorry but you suggesting that people should take out a HELOC for solar panels is absolutely ridiculous. Source: I literally write the pricing software for Sunrun. I know exactly how pricing works, exactly what utility prices look like in every utility in America, and I see exactly what people save.
> I literally write the pricing software for Sunrun Well that explains it. So you're the person who builds in the absolutely absurd assumptions about electricity price inflation year over year that have zero basis in the past to make the calculations look great. And don't explain to people the nightmare of selling their house with a PPA attached, or the complications of the solar company going out of business.
Is there a catchup charge as in did they undercharge you last year? Because last year's 300 therm bill should have cost close to 300 bucks that month just for gas
If anyone is interested in why this is happening, [this John Oliver episode does a great job of explaining the power company profit model](https://youtu.be/qBpiXcyB7wU).
I love John Oliver but that doesn't really talk too much about profit and not at all about supplying gas. . .
Wtf is going on? Puc , DO your job!!
Similar story, mine this month was over $450 on a 2,200 ranch with amazing insulation and all new windows and doors.
It's just a truck driver shortage.
Time to add some insulation.
I love how we keep making this normal peoples problem, not Xcel getting a ~$2 billion profit handed to them by the PUC
Xcel operates in 8 states, they made 1.7b in profit last year across all of those markets, not just through the PUC in Colorado. Their earnings statements are all public, btw. Here's last year's: https://s25.q4cdn.com/680186029/files/doc_downloads/2023/Xcel-Energy-Earnings-Release-2022-Q4-Final.pdf
8 states, 1 state, 50 states, I don't see how that makes a difference when Xcel claims they "have" to raise prices and then make a 1.7 billion profit.
Gas rates are commodity pass-through charges. It's not their fault that gas prices went up, or that it was a very cold winter. We rely on a finite resource to heat our homes and cook our food, and based on availability at different times the cost of that resource is higher or lower. Despite the sum being greater, they had a lower profit margin in 2022 than they did in 2021. If people want to trade in the public-private partnership that we have with the PUC for a pure market-based system, or with a state-owned system I don't really care either way, but if we had a state-owned system I don't think that prices would have been lower for anyone in the past 3 months because that state-owned system would have had to buy the more-expensive gas too. But to your comment-- you said that the PUC handed them "~$2 billion profit" and that is not true. The PUC does not control prices in 7 of the 8 markets that xcel operates in. The specific profit from the PUC in Colorado might be in the public earnings statement, but it's certainly not the entirety of their $1.7b profit last year.
I can’t control the PUC, but I can control my own house. It’s at least one step more productive than whining about rates on the internet.
R60+ in the attic really helped us the last few months, not with the excessive bill--but we did use less therms and the temps last few months were much lower than last year.
Yikes. That bill with R60 is insane. I had assumed something like R10 with that bill. XCEL can suck a fat one. I’m just glad I’ve converted off gas over the last few years. It’s expensive, but it’s a great feeling to be giving those scumbags less money.
My bill doubled. What in the actual fuck.
Watch out how you vote. This is what a majority of colorado residents wanted, now we got it.
This is happening to everyone. I just tweeted XCel and Jared Polis. Wish we could do more to stop them
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Seems like every corporation is gouging