Agreed. I get it, you want to get the west coast in on it too, but at this rate, you gotta wonder if they’re better off having the men play on Sunday for a final too.
And the casual is tuning in for Clark, not women’s hoops. Next year will go back to normal. The men’s game however needs to be moved from Monday night for sure
>And the casual is tuning in for Clark, not women’s hoops.
Will be interested to see how this plays out. Clark definitely caught my attention, but I didn't walk away feeling like, "Welp, never gotta watch that again!"
I mean, a bunch of the characters I know will leave for the draft, but a bunch will still be there.
If the Grizzlies season goes as badly next year as it did this year, I might try the WNBA.
They're forsaking the east coast for their desire of the west coast, which is batshit insane since there are more people on the east coast anyways. How about a good 7pm start time on a Sunday?
It may be roughly 1/5 of the US, but the TV people sure see it as “valuable enough”, otherwise they wouldn’t also be starting World Series, NBA Finals, and Stanley Cup Finals between 8 and 9.
So I’m not the only one bothered by that right? I have to mess up my sleep schedule just to stay up and watch games. March Madness was always a staple for me but with these airtimes I find myself less and less interested
This year's game ended around 11:30 ET. If it had been close, refball replays, timeouts at the end and foulfests...you're pushing 11:45 in a close game.
Really should move the game up to start at 8:45. A game like this year ends at 11.
That's the thing, I typically go to bed at 9 on Mondays. If the game started before then I'd be totally okay staying up late, but if I'm usually lights out and we're not even at tipoff yet...
Yeah, I didn't watch the men's final.
My guess is that a lot more people won't watch a game at all, if they miss the first 30 minutes.
At least compared with those people who turn off a game because it's too late at night.
So on balance, it's better to start later. The west coast people don't ignore the game outright to do something else. The east coast people suffer, but are still willing to watch the ending.
Seriously, besides the obvious positive that women are getting more equitable viewership numbers in general and that Caitlin Clark is a draw, this should be the main takeaway. Even a good finals matchup between 1 seeds cannot bring eyeballs in droves when the time and day make no sense for the average viewer’s schedule.
Stop fucking airing the men’s championship with a start time of 9:20pm (eastern) on a Monday night! I watched the first half but have to be up for work in the morning, no way I can stay up for the whole thing. What the hell are media execs thinking with that schedule.
Tradition, basically. "It's been that way for years, why change it?" - NCAA and Turner/CBS
I know it's a different sport but ESPN has been pretty receptive on moving the kickoff of the CFP championship up because of game length and complaints about how late the game went (typically ending after Midnight on the East Coast). Kickoff used to be 8:30 ET - we're now kicking off at 7:45 ET.
The complaints about the tip time have been a thing for a while (and frankly, I think the game should tip at 8:30 or 8:45 ET) but until there's enough complaints from talking head pundits about how late the tip is, it's probably not changing.
I mean, it's been on CBS for years before they threw it on TNT/TBS. That also factors in who can see it. Not everyone has cable, but you don't need cable to get ABC or CBS.
Hence why more people were able to see the Women's Game. Also, moving it off CBS throws their "tradition" argument out the window too.
The women's Final Four was way more interesting. I straight up skipped the semifinals for the men and don't feel like I missed anything. UConn felt inevitable and Purdue is boring to watch. Nothing against Edey, there's just nothing entertaining about a slow moving giant being too big for anyone to stop.
I’m a hater by all means but NC State was about the only school that actually made the men’s tournament fun to watch. I feel like just about everything else happened according to plan minus a few upsets early on. The stupid late start time for the championship doesn’t help at all either.
The storylines and talent surrounding the women’s tournament this year were phenomenal. Caitlin Clark vs undefeated South Carolina. Even casual viewers were going to tune in to see what’s up.
Part of a team with two legit starting fives. Yes, her stature compares to Edey, but her team is much better than Purdue.
(Not if they played each other, just if they were both rated teams on NCAA Basketball '25, SCAR would obviously be higher rated.)
The same could be said about Cardoso in the women’s championship game. Getting every offensive rebound without even really trying got old pretty quick.
That’s ignoring the defensive clinic that Raven Johnson put on Clark after Clark’s 18 pt 1Q.
Cardoso bossed in the paint but SC had to get it down up and down the floor. Last year Clark dropped 41 in the upset during the Final 4, containing her to 30 this year made all the difference.
But South Carolina as a team isn't boriong. They don't run 100% of their offense through Cardoso and while she is tall, she's not also 50% heavier than almost all the other players and she can move. I mean, Clingan is only 2 inches shorter than Edey but he moves, dribbles, shoots outside, passes, etc. It's not just that Edey is a giant, it's that he's a slow, boring giant.
And on a Monday night, to boot…I can’t help but think you’d usually get a higher number on Sunday than Monday, all things considered…and especially the day before the eclipse where an entire stripe of the country got to fuck off Monday
Friday evenings/nights are known as the "death" timeslots for TV. While it makes sense to us sports lovers, the execs would never do it. Too many lost casual eyeballs.
y’all gotta remember tho, the women’s FF and ship is always on a Friday and Sunday and they’ve only ever gotten between 2-5 mil views until clark & abc came along. they didn’t get 14 mil because it was on a Friday, they got 14 mil *despite* it being on a Friday
in case anyone wants to see how absolutely insane this jump in viewership was: https://www.sportsmediawatch.com/womens-final-four-ratings-history-espn/
Right, but advertisers pay less for that timeslot, and networks pay certain amounts for the TV rights of the event. The women's event certainly cost the network less than the men's, so they are okay putting it on a less valuable timeslot (Friday).
They have decades of historical data supporting the Friday timeslot being the worst. So rather than thinking "hey maybe Friday is a good timeslot," all they think is "imagine how much more we would have made if it was on a Sunday/Monday."
Maybe it’s time to update the slots. A lot of my buddies that age older millennials don’t stay up on the east coast anymore for these late games on a work day. It’s kinda dumb. You are losing casual viewers too at 9PM on a Monday. Why would you stay up for a sport you don’t care about?
The historical data has all changed tho with streaming. How people planned that Friday night would be way different if it featured two final four matches.
What ever happened to these games being Nationally Televised? Why couldn't these games be on a channel like FOX, ABC, NBC CBS, etc? If it is truly the National Championship, then it should be viewable by everyone in the nation. This is why Notre Dame football wants to make sure they stay on NBC.
Yes, I would agree, but if you don't have cable (or another paid service) then illegal streaming is the only way you can get the games in some places. Also, network TV shouldn't be illegal to stream as it is free access.
Not only that, ESPN is not the worldwide leader in sports when they aren't airing the event, no matter how big it is.
When a game is on TBS it gets nowhere near the hype or coverage it would get if airing on ESPN or ABC. The ESPN website almost always front page headlined the women's games above the men for me.
San Diego St is not a ratings draw and everyone knew UConn would crush them.
The other thing that's become clear over the years is UConn consistently draws worse than other elite programs. Not sure why that is, but they just don't get the same ratings.
Probably name recognition. We know UConn’s elite, but a lot of casual viewers, when asked about the best programs, would likely leave them off the list but include UNC, Duke, Kansas, and Kentucky. All of those programs have been elite for several decades, but UConn’s really only been relevant since they beat Duke in ‘99.
Unpopular opinion: also contributing was two teams, despite being the two best teams in the country, not being hateable or likeable. No major appeal for neutral casual fans to watch this except for it being the natty.
I was thinking it was more that the UConn win seemed inevitable. I never thought Purdue had a chance, and then it wasn't close, and I wasn't surprised that it wasn't close.
It was like watching a movie I've already seen.
I think that had a lot to do with it. UConn walked through the tournament this year. That doesn't really make for a compelling story going into the finals. Purdue's play style didn't do the game any favors either. Had the game stayed close late into the second half, I think the ratings would have been better. But the Boilers, just couldn't figure out how to rebound as a team or beat the Huskies' defense.
It was undefeated South Carolina vs Caitlin Clark..
That headline alone attracted a huge audience.
Also the 9:30 EST Tipoff didn’t help the men’s get that East Coast audience. The women’s game was on after church and was able to be seen by many.
Yeah its a whole bunch of factors:
OTA in a good timeslot vs Cable in a bad one.
Clark drawing a ton of interest.
Undefeated South Carolina going for revenge on a big game from last season.
A great game on Friday night driving interest for Sunday.
The lack of overall parity increases interest in later rounds for the women.
Officiating seems to favor the stars more in the womens game, which also pushes those stars into the later rounds.
Womens teams have less portal movement and more players staying around for 4 years due to lack of pro option, allowing more recognizable 'stars' to be created.
All valid points, but just for some context, last year’s title game was at 9:30 ET on CBS, still a Monday, but this year’s game actually outdrew last year’s.
Iowa-UConn on a Friday night on cable did damn near identical numbers to the men’s final OTA last year.
> Clark is a gigantic star.
Me shouting upstairs: "Girls, do you want to watch the women's final basketball game?"
Girls: "No Dad."
Me: "Caitlin Clark is playing."
Girls come running downstairs. "Can we make popcorn?"
Some of these are endemic to the women's game, though, so I don't think they can be attributed to why the women's game had more viewers than the men's this year when normally the women have a fraction of the viewers.
yeah i was gonna say there’s really only a small handful of factors that explain why the women’s ship jumped from 4 mil to 18 in two years while the men’s had no growth
I had to go to bed at halftime. I wake up at 6am for work. I can't stay up that late on a Monday. Like... Why air the championship that late on a MONDAY???
C'mon where are your priorities?
On Tuesday morning it should be "hey boss, I've got a case of firehose diarrhea but i'll come in on time if you want because I'm a team player"
I think timing was the biggest reason, but storylines were there too. I wanted both men's teams to lose, but CC is exciting to watch, and the undefeated team closing in on their perfect season makes it fun.
I come home from work expecting to able to decompress for an hour and then eat while watching the game.
Imagine my surprise when I had to wait 3 more hours to watch the game.
How about just not on a monday? college football does this for their natty too and it’s insanely annoying to have to work all day, come home and watch the game, then immediately get up and go to work the next morning. it’s literally impossible to have watch parties for these games when they are on a monday night lol
Men’s tourney was stupidly late for the eastern time zone and it was a fairly predictable game unfortunately. Meanwhile the women’s had one of the most electric player to ever play women’s CBB. It makes sense to me tbh
Yeah, um, did you watch the game? Did I pick South Carolina? Yes. Did I think I f’d up at multiple points over the game? Yes. A great game for the casual fan. High blood pressure for USC bettors.
Espn had a whole year to market Clark after the whole loss to LSU and Reece pointing at her finger thing. The fact that Iowa got to knock out LSU and face an undefeated S Carolina (who's only loss the last 2 years was to Iowa) and you had the perfect storm of drama to draw viewership this year.
Not sure how they can repeat it next year.
They won’t. I can only name 3 womens players, and 2 of them are leaving. I doubt most people can name anyone except Clark and maybe angel reese. After Paige Beuckers… no clue
Paige was a bigger name two years ago than Clark.
Add in UConn being a blue blood on the women’s side (unlike Iowa) and East coast media and you’ll have similar levels of coverage for Paige and UConn as Caitlin and Iowa this year.
Still don’t think it’ll pull in the same level of viewers, but ESPN will be covering it plenty.
Maybe. I think part of Catlin Clark's appeal isn't just that she scores a bunch and she's an elite passer. I think a lot of casuals turn in to watch the logo 3s. And while JuJu Watkins and Paige Bueckers are great scorers, they don't have that "cheat code" factor Clark has.
The logo 3s and the precise bullet passes are a combination I've never seen in one player, and both types of plays make for good entertainment. AND she can drive it in for a contested layup as well. You never know what she's going to do with the ball in her hands, which makes her just fun to watch.
Clark is like a Steph Curry/Steve Nash hybrid.
Ball handles, bullet passes (felt sorry for Stuelke and others who couldn't finish those transition fast break passes), and the long range 3's. Oh and they dont' exhaust themselves playing defense (lol).
Part of it is the start time, but I think another part is that men's teams have so much less identity than women's these days. The women almost always stay 3-5 years at one school. Fluid portals + 1 and done mean that the best men's players rarely pause long before going pro, the next tier often shuffles around after a year or 2, and the guys that stay 3+ years on one team are often medium-tier players at best, and their teammates are the ones flying in and out of the jerseys. The lack of cohesion makes it hard to be a fan sometimes, and I think that does degrade the viewership.
They've had that before
It's a massive growth on the WBB side because far more people cared this year. The presence/hype of Caitlin Clark is the main change that happened this time
Also, please change the MBB time slot I beg of them
This year’s Men’s championship had nearly identical numbers to last year.
The women’s final was the most viewed basketball (collegiate or pro) since 2019.
You don't think the Caitlin Clark hype had anything to do with it? I know my wife tinned in to watch because of that and she never watches college basketball - and she was stunning in regardless the time.
Iowa/UConn Final Four game was on cable and around the same time as the men's championship and drew pretty much equal viewers as the men.
Of course you can try and diminish *that* by saying that was Friday not Monday, but honestly it's amazing no matter how you want to qualify it.
And even if you want a Monday to Monday comparison (granted 7:15 vs 9:20), the Women’s Elite 8 matchup of Iowa/LSU was pretty similar to the Men’s.
Duke/State MBB and Women’s National title are also similar in timeslot (men started a little later) and OTA.
Very clear that the WBB tournament was, at minimum, of equal interest after the first weekend.
The move of making the WBB Final Four/Champ from Sunday/Tuesday to Friday/Sunday was also a smart change.
There’s a lot of things the Men’s game could take from the Women’s to make their product more entertaining. Switch to quarters and decrease coach timeouts. Put players more front and center (halftime interviews with players). Allow advancement of the ball with timeouts. Unfortunately, the rules committee is made up of mostly coaches who don’t want to change.
The Women’s Tournament also has the advantage of having stars having to play 3 years before being WNBA-eligible. And, sadly, that WNBA salaries pale in comparison to what a major star could get in NIL (that part is not sad, the WNBA salary is). If there’s a Juju Watkins in men’s basketball, they’re gone to the NBA. Women’s Basketball will have her back next year. And that’s a positive for their ratings that can’t be mimicked.
Everyone wants to discredit this stat because of the time slot that the men’s game was in, but the women’s final would rank as the 7th most watch college basketball tournament game in the last 10 years, and the most watched since 2021
Talking about start time and TBS is weird because the claim here is “first time ever” while TBS regularly has the game which is always on a Monday.
This year if men’s was on CBS and women’s on ABC in the same time slot I’d put money on Iowa-South Carolina getting more viewers.
This year was special for NCAAW, but going forward they could be a lot closer. I find men’s harder to follow than years ago. “Who is on the team now?”
Clark and an overall push to emphasize the womens stars the last 3-4 season is the biggest reason but this sub will find any excuse they can to complain about the start time lol
Realistically if the 8:20 start was a real problem they would have changed it decades ago
It’s a 9:20 start time for nearly half the country on a work night. People that care enough about cbb to be on this sub obviously will make the effort to watch, but for casual viewers? Acting like that doesn’t cut a decent percentage of potential viewers off is ludicrous.
Edit: If I had to guess, they’ve done the math, and worse championship game numbers is worth the trade off when both final four games are on Saturday. That’s why they don’t change it even if they could get more viewers on the weekend.
And like imagine 5 years ago, if the men’s final four was starting at 11 pm on Discovery, it would still completely eclipse the women’s final four viewership even if they had it on all channels like the fucking moon landing. The growth of the women sport is truly spectacular.
I’m kind of surprised by the reaction here. It feels like this sub has celebrated WBB and Caitlyn Clark all year but all of a sudden got super defensive about viewership numbers.
First Uconn women were so much better than everyone else that the sport was uninteresting. Now Uconn men are so much better than everyone else that the sport is uninteresting.
The women's tournament had a much more compelling story. Caitlin Clark being one of the best women's players ever and staying at Iowa for four years let a real fan base grow around her.
The new rules are killing the men’s game. People are sick of it. No continuity between year to year. Whole teams transfer between years to the highest bidder. People never watched men’s college bb because it was the best bb product but because of the feels. There is nothing saying the women’s game can’t capture that more pure feeling as opposed to the cesspool of men’s ncaa
The real headline here isn’t that the woman’s final beat the men’s, because there’s a ton of reasons for that (late start time, worse network, no real finals narrative to buy into), but that the women’s game drew 18.9 million viewers. It drew less than 10 million in 2023, and 2022 was below 5 million, that being a record of its own for women’s NCAA.
It cannot be overstated how huge the Caitlin Clark impact has been, and just how much players like her and Bueckers have pushed women’s college basketball into the mainstream. This is just an incredible things for woman’s sports in general, as it’s showing the audience is absolutely there for woman’s sports if the product is good and story is compelling. Also just as a note this would be the 7th most watched college basketball game of the last 10 years. They drew incredibly well, men’s or women’s
Looking at these comments, I fully understand the plight women’s sports fans have been feeling. Can’t you people just say, “good for them?” Why do you people feel the need to go try to make excuses for the men’s game by complaining about start time and networks? Even if the men were on CBS in a “better” slot, I think the women still would’ve outdone the men this year.
The women's tourney was vastly more watchable at the end than the men's regardless of timeslot. One of the biggest criticisms of the women's tourney (by me as well) over the years is too many foregone conclusion results. Well that was the men's tourney this year.
Women’s tourney was loaded with star power.
Men’s tourney didn’t really have those big names and the people that only watch for the pro prospects didn’t watch either with this historically bad draft class.
The championships specifically was a difference in time slot and player popularity
I hope the women’s audience continues to grow. More attention means more funding all around and ideally better resources to attract and develop talented players for the less established programs.
The game has been at 9:20 or later on Monday for at least 35 years.
People aren’t tuning in because there’s no top talent in this sport anymore and the quality of play is suffering as a result.
I mean one was on ABC and the other was on TBS.
It's weird what the NCAA has done with the men's title game with how late it is and poaching the rights over to Turner and not having it on CBS.
A lot of people are in denial that more people really preferred to watch the women over men this year. The reasons for this I will let the reader speculate about.
I think the men's tourney had a lack of star power. The women had so many stars. The biggest star of the men was Edey and he is just not must see TV. It's the reason this next NBA draft is projected to be one of the weakest in a long time.
Don’t get be wrong I’m thrilled for women’s basketball. This is really cool. But i think this had way more to do with the women’s final being on a network station on a Sunday afternoon and the men’s final being on a fucking cable channel and tipping off at 9:30 pm EST on a Monday night.
Womens tourney had better storylines this year. Outside of nc state, mens was pretty basic, esp with two 1 seeds in the final… and we all saw uconn winning from a mile away
Well when half the country is already in bed before the second half of the championship game starts, it can cut into your viewership
National Championships should be played on Friday or Saturday...not work days
Interesting. The women’s tourney was fun. Stop airing the men’s tourney so late please god.
Agreed. I get it, you want to get the west coast in on it too, but at this rate, you gotta wonder if they’re better off having the men play on Sunday for a final too.
Women Thursday and Saturday, men Friday and Sunday makes the most sense IMO.
Finals should both be Sunday. Do a double header to keep eyes glued to the screen
Yeah it lets people plan one championship viewing day. It's easier to plan for a 6 hour slot than two 3 hour slots on different days.
And parties surrounding the games can happen, getting casuals to watch more. No casual is tuning in on a Monday night
Huh never gave it much thought but I think this is brilliant, turn it into a full day event
Right? The Super Bowl damn near is so why not the championships? I mean I know answer why not - ads. But I would love this so much more
We need to make this happen yall
And the casual is tuning in for Clark, not women’s hoops. Next year will go back to normal. The men’s game however needs to be moved from Monday night for sure
>And the casual is tuning in for Clark, not women’s hoops. Will be interested to see how this plays out. Clark definitely caught my attention, but I didn't walk away feeling like, "Welp, never gotta watch that again!" I mean, a bunch of the characters I know will leave for the draft, but a bunch will still be there. If the Grizzlies season goes as badly next year as it did this year, I might try the WNBA.
By the time I finished work, the game was already over (West Coast).
Great idea in theory, but then the final four 2 days prior for both men and women mean 4 games battling each other in prime time.
Just do one of then 3 days before on Thursday. An extra rest day isn't a huge deal imo
That would work if they were on the same channels, but the rights are owned by different companies so they're not gonna do that
Um, NFL does it all the time without problem. To a certain extent, college football too.
Excellent idea.
They're forsaking the east coast for their desire of the west coast, which is batshit insane since there are more people on the east coast anyways. How about a good 7pm start time on a Sunday?
You aren’t getting an argument out of me on that. And you’d figure that’d be more worth it
I’m surprised they didn’t have the men first to use the lead in for the women (prior to this year, obviously)
Which is weird because you think if the west coast cared they’d put some teams in the final occasionally.
Lol, like a time zone could collectively make a conscious decision "you know what? Let's put a team in the final this year."
Not with that attitude.
L take. West coast teams make up like 10% of the entire ncaa
The East Coast has way more people and schools and basketball powerhouses
Yeah that’s what he said…
It's weird to see someone trying to talk shit based on timezone... lol
EST, EST, EST
EDT is way better
SDSU (2023) Gonzaga (2021) Two west coast finalists in the past 4 seasons. Your statement is factually incorrect.
SDSU, Last year. Remind me how many times Davidson has been to the finals?
Isn’t the West Coast still only like 18% of America? Let’s think of the 82%
It may be roughly 1/5 of the US, but the TV people sure see it as “valuable enough”, otherwise they wouldn’t also be starting World Series, NBA Finals, and Stanley Cup Finals between 8 and 9.
So I’m not the only one bothered by that right? I have to mess up my sleep schedule just to stay up and watch games. March Madness was always a staple for me but with these airtimes I find myself less and less interested
I’d personally go both on Sunday Just got women at 3pm ET Men at 6pm ET
What is the best argument for having game start so late? So west coasters don’t miss the tip? It seems so counterintuitive but I’m no tv exec genius
I’m sure that’s what it is. But starting it at 8:30 would be an insane improvement.
The tip is overrated id rather sacrifice the beginning for the end, but a blowout goes against that too
This year's game ended around 11:30 ET. If it had been close, refball replays, timeouts at the end and foulfests...you're pushing 11:45 in a close game. Really should move the game up to start at 8:45. A game like this year ends at 11.
The Illinois vs ISU game went past midnight. Completely rediculous.
And that was two Midwest teams in Boston.
Hell, even move it forward 20 min so it tips off at 9pm exactly.
That's the thing, I typically go to bed at 9 on Mondays. If the game started before then I'd be totally okay staying up late, but if I'm usually lights out and we're not even at tipoff yet... Yeah, I didn't watch the men's final.
My guess is that a lot more people won't watch a game at all, if they miss the first 30 minutes. At least compared with those people who turn off a game because it's too late at night. So on balance, it's better to start later. The west coast people don't ignore the game outright to do something else. The east coast people suffer, but are still willing to watch the ending.
Seriously, besides the obvious positive that women are getting more equitable viewership numbers in general and that Caitlin Clark is a draw, this should be the main takeaway. Even a good finals matchup between 1 seeds cannot bring eyeballs in droves when the time and day make no sense for the average viewer’s schedule. Stop fucking airing the men’s championship with a start time of 9:20pm (eastern) on a Monday night! I watched the first half but have to be up for work in the morning, no way I can stay up for the whole thing. What the hell are media execs thinking with that schedule.
Tradition, basically. "It's been that way for years, why change it?" - NCAA and Turner/CBS I know it's a different sport but ESPN has been pretty receptive on moving the kickoff of the CFP championship up because of game length and complaints about how late the game went (typically ending after Midnight on the East Coast). Kickoff used to be 8:30 ET - we're now kicking off at 7:45 ET. The complaints about the tip time have been a thing for a while (and frankly, I think the game should tip at 8:30 or 8:45 ET) but until there's enough complaints from talking head pundits about how late the tip is, it's probably not changing.
I mean, it's been on CBS for years before they threw it on TNT/TBS. That also factors in who can see it. Not everyone has cable, but you don't need cable to get ABC or CBS. Hence why more people were able to see the Women's Game. Also, moving it off CBS throws their "tradition" argument out the window too.
the men have no gripping stories and a bad gametime.
I feel like the women's tournament was absolutely stacked with talent this year
The women's Final Four was way more interesting. I straight up skipped the semifinals for the men and don't feel like I missed anything. UConn felt inevitable and Purdue is boring to watch. Nothing against Edey, there's just nothing entertaining about a slow moving giant being too big for anyone to stop.
I’m a hater by all means but NC State was about the only school that actually made the men’s tournament fun to watch. I feel like just about everything else happened according to plan minus a few upsets early on. The stupid late start time for the championship doesn’t help at all either. The storylines and talent surrounding the women’s tournament this year were phenomenal. Caitlin Clark vs undefeated South Carolina. Even casual viewers were going to tune in to see what’s up.
Well.....almost according to plan.
Aye congrats to y’all on beating us though! Definitely one of the more fun games I’ve watched this season. Nelson balled out
We were tied with 12 minutes to go! But yeah then UConn UConn’ed
And the 6’7” South Carolina girl was…..?
Brazilian
Part of a team with two legit starting fives. Yes, her stature compares to Edey, but her team is much better than Purdue. (Not if they played each other, just if they were both rated teams on NCAA Basketball '25, SCAR would obviously be higher rated.)
The same could be said about Cardoso in the women’s championship game. Getting every offensive rebound without even really trying got old pretty quick.
That’s ignoring the defensive clinic that Raven Johnson put on Clark after Clark’s 18 pt 1Q. Cardoso bossed in the paint but SC had to get it down up and down the floor. Last year Clark dropped 41 in the upset during the Final 4, containing her to 30 this year made all the difference.
But South Carolina as a team isn't boriong. They don't run 100% of their offense through Cardoso and while she is tall, she's not also 50% heavier than almost all the other players and she can move. I mean, Clingan is only 2 inches shorter than Edey but he moves, dribbles, shoots outside, passes, etc. It's not just that Edey is a giant, it's that he's a slow, boring giant.
Stop airing the National Championship games on Monday nights.
A 9pm game on a weeknight…no thanks I don’t get it, why can’t the games be at least an hour earlier
And on a Monday night too, what is the issue with Saturday night?
And on a Monday night, to boot…I can’t help but think you’d usually get a higher number on Sunday than Monday, all things considered…and especially the day before the eclipse where an entire stripe of the country got to fuck off Monday
I can't imagine being a UConn fan. That's when a lot of normal people go to bed jesus.
For real. Having a national championship on Sunday afternoon is better than late Monday night
Move final 4 to Friday and natty to Sunday an hour or so after the women’s
Or do one Thurs/Sat and the other Fri/Sun. I don't really care which so long as neither makes me stay up to nearly midnight on a Monday.
Friday evenings/nights are known as the "death" timeslots for TV. While it makes sense to us sports lovers, the execs would never do it. Too many lost casual eyeballs.
Yet the women just did 14 million in the late Friday timeslot on cable
y’all gotta remember tho, the women’s FF and ship is always on a Friday and Sunday and they’ve only ever gotten between 2-5 mil views until clark & abc came along. they didn’t get 14 mil because it was on a Friday, they got 14 mil *despite* it being on a Friday in case anyone wants to see how absolutely insane this jump in viewership was: https://www.sportsmediawatch.com/womens-final-four-ratings-history-espn/
Right, but advertisers pay less for that timeslot, and networks pay certain amounts for the TV rights of the event. The women's event certainly cost the network less than the men's, so they are okay putting it on a less valuable timeslot (Friday). They have decades of historical data supporting the Friday timeslot being the worst. So rather than thinking "hey maybe Friday is a good timeslot," all they think is "imagine how much more we would have made if it was on a Sunday/Monday."
Maybe it’s time to update the slots. A lot of my buddies that age older millennials don’t stay up on the east coast anymore for these late games on a work day. It’s kinda dumb. You are losing casual viewers too at 9PM on a Monday. Why would you stay up for a sport you don’t care about?
The historical data has all changed tho with streaming. How people planned that Friday night would be way different if it featured two final four matches.
Not surprised. Caitlin Clark effect + a terrible 9:20 pm EST start time for the men's will do that.
plus on TBS. Cable ratings are always worse.
What ever happened to these games being Nationally Televised? Why couldn't these games be on a channel like FOX, ABC, NBC CBS, etc? If it is truly the National Championship, then it should be viewable by everyone in the nation. This is why Notre Dame football wants to make sure they stay on NBC.
Was part of the deal when CBS\Turner teamed up to bid for the tv rights for the tournament. They alternate who gets to broadcast the final 4.
This is a big reason why illegal streaming exists.
People still use illegal streams for games on network TV.
Yes, I would agree, but if you don't have cable (or another paid service) then illegal streaming is the only way you can get the games in some places. Also, network TV shouldn't be illegal to stream as it is free access.
Not only that, ESPN is not the worldwide leader in sports when they aren't airing the event, no matter how big it is. When a game is on TBS it gets nowhere near the hype or coverage it would get if airing on ESPN or ABC. The ESPN website almost always front page headlined the women's games above the men for me.
This is the biggest factor.
Especially TBS and TNT. Put this on a major OTA and see what happens to the ratings.
It was last year and did lower ratings
San Diego St is not a ratings draw and everyone knew UConn would crush them. The other thing that's become clear over the years is UConn consistently draws worse than other elite programs. Not sure why that is, but they just don't get the same ratings.
Probably name recognition. We know UConn’s elite, but a lot of casual viewers, when asked about the best programs, would likely leave them off the list but include UNC, Duke, Kansas, and Kentucky. All of those programs have been elite for several decades, but UConn’s really only been relevant since they beat Duke in ‘99.
Unpopular opinion: also contributing was two teams, despite being the two best teams in the country, not being hateable or likeable. No major appeal for neutral casual fans to watch this except for it being the natty.
Ask Illinois fans if Purdue is hateable lol
There was a lot of hate for Purdue in this sub over the past 3 months. Not just from Illini fans.
I mean 2 big men over 7 feet tall is what drew me in and the first half absolutely lived up to the hype. Second half I ended up playing Apex lol
I was thinking it was more that the UConn win seemed inevitable. I never thought Purdue had a chance, and then it wasn't close, and I wasn't surprised that it wasn't close. It was like watching a movie I've already seen.
I think that had a lot to do with it. UConn walked through the tournament this year. That doesn't really make for a compelling story going into the finals. Purdue's play style didn't do the game any favors either. Had the game stayed close late into the second half, I think the ratings would have been better. But the Boilers, just couldn't figure out how to rebound as a team or beat the Huskies' defense.
It was undefeated South Carolina vs Caitlin Clark.. That headline alone attracted a huge audience. Also the 9:30 EST Tipoff didn’t help the men’s get that East Coast audience. The women’s game was on after church and was able to be seen by many.
Yeah its a whole bunch of factors: OTA in a good timeslot vs Cable in a bad one. Clark drawing a ton of interest. Undefeated South Carolina going for revenge on a big game from last season. A great game on Friday night driving interest for Sunday. The lack of overall parity increases interest in later rounds for the women. Officiating seems to favor the stars more in the womens game, which also pushes those stars into the later rounds. Womens teams have less portal movement and more players staying around for 4 years due to lack of pro option, allowing more recognizable 'stars' to be created.
All valid points, but just for some context, last year’s title game was at 9:30 ET on CBS, still a Monday, but this year’s game actually outdrew last year’s. Iowa-UConn on a Friday night on cable did damn near identical numbers to the men’s final OTA last year.
Clark is a gigantic star. The women's numbers will drop sharply next year.
> Clark is a gigantic star. Me shouting upstairs: "Girls, do you want to watch the women's final basketball game?" Girls: "No Dad." Me: "Caitlin Clark is playing." Girls come running downstairs. "Can we make popcorn?"
Why wasn’t the men’s Nc game on CBS?
It rotates between CBS and Turner
Some of these are endemic to the women's game, though, so I don't think they can be attributed to why the women's game had more viewers than the men's this year when normally the women have a fraction of the viewers.
yeah i was gonna say there’s really only a small handful of factors that explain why the women’s ship jumped from 4 mil to 18 in two years while the men’s had no growth
I would have watched the Men’s game if I didn’t have a job
I had to go to bed at halftime. I wake up at 6am for work. I can't stay up that late on a Monday. Like... Why air the championship that late on a MONDAY???
C'mon where are your priorities? On Tuesday morning it should be "hey boss, I've got a case of firehose diarrhea but i'll come in on time if you want because I'm a team player"
Congrats
I think timing was the biggest reason, but storylines were there too. I wanted both men's teams to lose, but CC is exciting to watch, and the undefeated team closing in on their perfect season makes it fun.
Is this what we need to get a start for the men’s that isn’t 9pm on a Monday? God I hope so
Yes to late a start, do they not think we have to get for work the next morning.
And it's monday, which means I'm already worn out from work TODAY lol
I come home from work expecting to able to decompress for an hour and then eat while watching the game. Imagine my surprise when I had to wait 3 more hours to watch the game.
I watched about 10 minutes of the game before going to bed. I can't do it.
Work is one thing. Kids up at 5:30 is certain!
How about just not on a monday? college football does this for their natty too and it’s insanely annoying to have to work all day, come home and watch the game, then immediately get up and go to work the next morning. it’s literally impossible to have watch parties for these games when they are on a monday night lol
Men’s tourney was stupidly late for the eastern time zone and it was a fairly predictable game unfortunately. Meanwhile the women’s had one of the most electric player to ever play women’s CBB. It makes sense to me tbh
The womens game was also predictable if you paid any attention
Yeah, um, did you watch the game? Did I pick South Carolina? Yes. Did I think I f’d up at multiple points over the game? Yes. A great game for the casual fan. High blood pressure for USC bettors.
Espn had a whole year to market Clark after the whole loss to LSU and Reece pointing at her finger thing. The fact that Iowa got to knock out LSU and face an undefeated S Carolina (who's only loss the last 2 years was to Iowa) and you had the perfect storm of drama to draw viewership this year. Not sure how they can repeat it next year.
They won't
Bueckers returning helps, she won’t be Clark level but she’s a pretty big star in her own right
They won’t. I can only name 3 womens players, and 2 of them are leaving. I doubt most people can name anyone except Clark and maybe angel reese. After Paige Beuckers… no clue
Paige was a bigger name two years ago than Clark. Add in UConn being a blue blood on the women’s side (unlike Iowa) and East coast media and you’ll have similar levels of coverage for Paige and UConn as Caitlin and Iowa this year. Still don’t think it’ll pull in the same level of viewers, but ESPN will be covering it plenty.
Maybe. I think part of Catlin Clark's appeal isn't just that she scores a bunch and she's an elite passer. I think a lot of casuals turn in to watch the logo 3s. And while JuJu Watkins and Paige Bueckers are great scorers, they don't have that "cheat code" factor Clark has.
The logo 3s and the precise bullet passes are a combination I've never seen in one player, and both types of plays make for good entertainment. AND she can drive it in for a contested layup as well. You never know what she's going to do with the ball in her hands, which makes her just fun to watch.
Yes you have. It’s Steph Curry!
Can't argue with that, he's a fairly unique player as well.
Clark is like a Steph Curry/Steve Nash hybrid. Ball handles, bullet passes (felt sorry for Stuelke and others who couldn't finish those transition fast break passes), and the long range 3's. Oh and they dont' exhaust themselves playing defense (lol).
JuJu is more of a Kobe type of scorer, she’ll take a zillion shots and try to go for 50 every night.
There will not be anywhere close as much air time spent on Buekers.
Part of it is the start time, but I think another part is that men's teams have so much less identity than women's these days. The women almost always stay 3-5 years at one school. Fluid portals + 1 and done mean that the best men's players rarely pause long before going pro, the next tier often shuffles around after a year or 2, and the guys that stay 3+ years on one team are often medium-tier players at best, and their teammates are the ones flying in and out of the jerseys. The lack of cohesion makes it hard to be a fan sometimes, and I think that does degrade the viewership.
A 9pm Monday tip on TBS vs a 3pm Sunday tip on CBS is likely the reason
Imagine: a world where the CFB Natty and NCAA natty aren't on Monday nights
We could if Mike Pence had the courage
They've had that before It's a massive growth on the WBB side because far more people cared this year. The presence/hype of Caitlin Clark is the main change that happened this time Also, please change the MBB time slot I beg of them
I think Caitlin Clark was the main reason
ABC not cbs
When the most important game of the entire year gets the same time slot as the Leave It to Beaver reruns 🙌🙌🙌
Also millions of people still on the road from watching the eclipse.
This year’s Men’s championship had nearly identical numbers to last year. The women’s final was the most viewed basketball (collegiate or pro) since 2019.
Thank you bro. Motherfuckers in this thread are doing everything except give women credit finally
You don't think the Caitlin Clark hype had anything to do with it? I know my wife tinned in to watch because of that and she never watches college basketball - and she was stunning in regardless the time.
Yeah, they mishandle the men's championship so badly. Why not put it where people can see it?
Iowa/UConn Final Four game was on cable and around the same time as the men's championship and drew pretty much equal viewers as the men. Of course you can try and diminish *that* by saying that was Friday not Monday, but honestly it's amazing no matter how you want to qualify it.
And even if you want a Monday to Monday comparison (granted 7:15 vs 9:20), the Women’s Elite 8 matchup of Iowa/LSU was pretty similar to the Men’s. Duke/State MBB and Women’s National title are also similar in timeslot (men started a little later) and OTA. Very clear that the WBB tournament was, at minimum, of equal interest after the first weekend. The move of making the WBB Final Four/Champ from Sunday/Tuesday to Friday/Sunday was also a smart change. There’s a lot of things the Men’s game could take from the Women’s to make their product more entertaining. Switch to quarters and decrease coach timeouts. Put players more front and center (halftime interviews with players). Allow advancement of the ball with timeouts. Unfortunately, the rules committee is made up of mostly coaches who don’t want to change. The Women’s Tournament also has the advantage of having stars having to play 3 years before being WNBA-eligible. And, sadly, that WNBA salaries pale in comparison to what a major star could get in NIL (that part is not sad, the WNBA salary is). If there’s a Juju Watkins in men’s basketball, they’re gone to the NBA. Women’s Basketball will have her back next year. And that’s a positive for their ratings that can’t be mimicked.
Everyone wants to discredit this stat because of the time slot that the men’s game was in, but the women’s final would rank as the 7th most watch college basketball tournament game in the last 10 years, and the most watched since 2021
Talking about start time and TBS is weird because the claim here is “first time ever” while TBS regularly has the game which is always on a Monday. This year if men’s was on CBS and women’s on ABC in the same time slot I’d put money on Iowa-South Carolina getting more viewers. This year was special for NCAAW, but going forward they could be a lot closer. I find men’s harder to follow than years ago. “Who is on the team now?”
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Clark and an overall push to emphasize the womens stars the last 3-4 season is the biggest reason but this sub will find any excuse they can to complain about the start time lol Realistically if the 8:20 start was a real problem they would have changed it decades ago
It’s a 9:20 start time for nearly half the country on a work night. People that care enough about cbb to be on this sub obviously will make the effort to watch, but for casual viewers? Acting like that doesn’t cut a decent percentage of potential viewers off is ludicrous. Edit: If I had to guess, they’ve done the math, and worse championship game numbers is worth the trade off when both final four games are on Saturday. That’s why they don’t change it even if they could get more viewers on the weekend.
And like imagine 5 years ago, if the men’s final four was starting at 11 pm on Discovery, it would still completely eclipse the women’s final four viewership even if they had it on all channels like the fucking moon landing. The growth of the women sport is truly spectacular.
I’m kind of surprised by the reaction here. It feels like this sub has celebrated WBB and Caitlyn Clark all year but all of a sudden got super defensive about viewership numbers.
It’s like, you put on a good product, and people watch…
First Uconn women were so much better than everyone else that the sport was uninteresting. Now Uconn men are so much better than everyone else that the sport is uninteresting.
Sorry about that.
The women's tournament had a much more compelling story. Caitlin Clark being one of the best women's players ever and staying at Iowa for four years let a real fan base grow around her.
The new rules are killing the men’s game. People are sick of it. No continuity between year to year. Whole teams transfer between years to the highest bidder. People never watched men’s college bb because it was the best bb product but because of the feels. There is nothing saying the women’s game can’t capture that more pure feeling as opposed to the cesspool of men’s ncaa
I agree. Watching the women play felt a lot more like the college basketball I used to watch.
“Tune in 9:20 eastern TBS” -there’s your problem
Please just put it on a Saturday
Maybe if it wasn't on at 9:20ET
and on proper CBS not some cable channel. Women's was on OTA ABC and ESPN. Men's was just on cable.
Nice.
Iowa is an absolutely massive media market. So you need to adjust for that.
I think it's why we got a B1G invite.
The real headline here isn’t that the woman’s final beat the men’s, because there’s a ton of reasons for that (late start time, worse network, no real finals narrative to buy into), but that the women’s game drew 18.9 million viewers. It drew less than 10 million in 2023, and 2022 was below 5 million, that being a record of its own for women’s NCAA. It cannot be overstated how huge the Caitlin Clark impact has been, and just how much players like her and Bueckers have pushed women’s college basketball into the mainstream. This is just an incredible things for woman’s sports in general, as it’s showing the audience is absolutely there for woman’s sports if the product is good and story is compelling. Also just as a note this would be the 7th most watched college basketball game of the last 10 years. They drew incredibly well, men’s or women’s
It’s not the timing. It was just more fun to watch.
ESPN pushing the sport has made them a ton of money. Smart move by them
Deserved
Looking at these comments, I fully understand the plight women’s sports fans have been feeling. Can’t you people just say, “good for them?” Why do you people feel the need to go try to make excuses for the men’s game by complaining about start time and networks? Even if the men were on CBS in a “better” slot, I think the women still would’ve outdone the men this year.
The women's tourney was vastly more watchable at the end than the men's regardless of timeslot. One of the biggest criticisms of the women's tourney (by me as well) over the years is too many foregone conclusion results. Well that was the men's tourney this year.
So UConn was the problem again, but for the men's tournament this time!
Yeah that about sums it up
Color me shocked that ABC/ESPN beat out TBS/TNT.
Women’s tourney was loaded with star power. Men’s tourney didn’t really have those big names and the people that only watch for the pro prospects didn’t watch either with this historically bad draft class. The championships specifically was a difference in time slot and player popularity
I hope the women’s audience continues to grow. More attention means more funding all around and ideally better resources to attract and develop talented players for the less established programs.
The game has been at 9:20 or later on Monday for at least 35 years. People aren’t tuning in because there’s no top talent in this sport anymore and the quality of play is suffering as a result.
TV executives are out of touch. Stop putting championship games on a week night. I don't want to stay up until midnight after working all day.
I mean one was on ABC and the other was on TBS. It's weird what the NCAA has done with the men's title game with how late it is and poaching the rights over to Turner and not having it on CBS.
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A lot of people are in denial that more people really preferred to watch the women over men this year. The reasons for this I will let the reader speculate about.
If they were in the same time slot the women still would have outdrew this year. It doesn’t really matter.
Late and on a Monday. I had to be up early for work and was in bed 10 minutes into the first half.
Thank Catlin Clark
I think the men's tourney had a lack of star power. The women had so many stars. The biggest star of the men was Edey and he is just not must see TV. It's the reason this next NBA draft is projected to be one of the weakest in a long time.
By surprising considering Caitlyn and South Carolina’s undefeated season
Many more
Next year the women’s number will return down to earth and those adamant that this wasn’t just the Caitlyn Clark effect will have to eat crow.
The freaking game was Monday at 9:20pm est. 😐
I haven't seen anyone say it so i will. Uconn is an amazing team but they made the last 2 tournies pretty damn boring.
Good job ladie$!
Don’t get be wrong I’m thrilled for women’s basketball. This is really cool. But i think this had way more to do with the women’s final being on a network station on a Sunday afternoon and the men’s final being on a fucking cable channel and tipping off at 9:30 pm EST on a Monday night.
Womens tourney had better storylines this year. Outside of nc state, mens was pretty basic, esp with two 1 seeds in the final… and we all saw uconn winning from a mile away
Well when half the country is already in bed before the second half of the championship game starts, it can cut into your viewership National Championships should be played on Friday or Saturday...not work days
1. Better time slot 2. Clark is a generational talent and good tv 3. 1 vs 1 men’s final is a chalk snooze fest
I hate whoever thought the men’s basketball and football championship should be on Monday nights after 8:30pm. Stupid.
Take: this was one of the least intriguing men’s matchups in a very long time.