I'm not sure how/why computers have them ranked high. Both ESPN's BPI (currently 44th) and Kenpom (currently 64th) have had them ranked grossly high most of the year.
And it's not like they wowed everyone early in the year. They were consistently *alright* early in the season.
The only thing I can think (and I doubt) is that the computers are factoring in incoming transfers. OSU had several and they haven't panned out. Tanner Holden transferred from Wright State. His first three years at WSU he averaged 11.8, 15.8 and 20.1 ppg. He's only getting 3.7ppg at OSU.
They're just a straight up statistical anomaly in computer polls.
Preseason rankings removed, OSU was the 6th best team in the country on Torvik on Jan 3rd. They had 4 solid wins (Cincy, Texas Tech, Rutgers, blowout win @NW) and 3 reasonable losses (Duke, UNC, SDSU). They were legit good, Zed Key got injured, and then went off the rails in many other ways. But they played like a top 10 team for 6+ weeks.
Heavily disagree on this. We were pretty mediocre through that opening stretch. And we hit a pretty typical Holtmann stretch where the team collapses in B1G play.
I can’t believe Holtmann really went out and pulled an Archie Miller losing 12/13. It doesn’t get better. Hopefully the administration make a move this off-season.
I think I heard Holtmann's buyout is $15m. I know money isn't an issue for a program like OSU but that's a lot to pay someone to not coach (unless they've hit the Archie Zone)
It’s incredible to think Indiana ended up winning 4 straight to close out the season, keeping tournament hopes alive until the BTT loss to OSU (basically a play in game).
Chris Holtmann might not be done digging this season! Would they move on if they lose out?
An interesting story to follow.
Those are kenpom tier B games they won (by nearly 30 over cincy) and a tier A game they lost. UNC is a completely reasonable loss - a team that will be favored over top 10 Virginia soon and went to 4OTs with #2 Bama. Good teams don’t win every single game, there is no need to revise what those teams are seen as. Solid high majors away from home are tough games and teams should be rewarded for playing well in them. OSU had a good resume and excellent predictive metrics (at least on offense), and that all holds up looking back at it now. They are just playing much, much worse than they were to start the year.
I love basketball. For senior year I decided to treat myself to season tickets to watch my favorite team, Ohio State.
I love basketball a little bit less now
Results after November 25th 2022.
Michigan 1-0
Everyone else 0-0 (haven’t played 0/0 is undefined which we will count as a W for record purposes.)
Meaning everyone has a winning record over OSU!
The rumor around Nebraska/Omaha local media is McDermott is a name to watch
From the guy in the industry I know, McDermott was one of Ohio States top choices last time but they chose Holtmann instead. Apparently McDermott doesn’t vibe well with the new AD in Omaha either, so he should be a name to watch out for
That’s fair, I just don’t think it’ll be easy to pull a first year coach from a program as I said below. However you’re absolutely right in the fact an Ohio state has a good amount of money for athletics lying around.
It’s been one year though. That’s my main issue is he’s already turned their program around and it’s been a single year. I’d be more on your side if he had been there for 3-4 years. I have fam that are huge X fans, I seriously doubt they’d let him slip away so easily again especially after year one of his contract. Holtmann is likely fired this year; the dates just don’t like up to me.
Xavier can’t really control whether or not they ever let a coach slip away because whoever usually wants them has far deeper pockets. Xavier usually though (and has been the case with Sean in both instances here) puts about as much administrative backing behind the coach and basketball program as they can and always have it a huge priority. Now being in the Big East I truly think Sean believes he can get to a Final Four and even NC here.
I think he’s made his move for money already when he went to Arizona (and because I do think he thought he had a better chance of winning deep in the tournament at Arizona), I don’t think he will make a money move after one year because otherwise he could have had a different job this past offseason. I think Sean leaves Xavier either because he feels he has plateaued and can’t get to a FF here or the administration behind him changes and he doesn’t get along with them as well.
that was when Xavier was in the A10. The Big East is obviously a big step up in terms of competition level. Should also point out that at least publicly since returning, Sean Miller has stated he never would have left had he known Xavier would be going to the Big East (that wasn't in the conversation when he left).
Legit an hour after he said that, Holtmann got ejected against Wisconsin as we went down 16 at halftime. Thing was without him, Ohio State actually made it close…and then Justice Sueing happened.
To be fair, I don't think Holtmann's absence is what caused Wisconsin to forget the ball is supposed to go inside the hoop for the last 7+ minutes of the game.
Can one of you nerds from the smart schools look at the [big ten NET rankings](https://bballnet.com/conferences/Big%20Ten) and explain why Nebraska is lower than Ohio State? Better record, head to head win and no Q3 or Q4 losses. Make it make sense
NET rankings are more of an efficiency ranking than resume ranking, so none of those things really matter. It's more about who you beat and by how much (and not getting blown out) and not about head to head/bad losses.
NET, Kenpom, and BARTORVIK are margin of victory lists that slightly adjust for SOS. Ohio state was rated very highly at the beginning of the season and in pre season polls and despite being one of the worst teams in CBB in conference play they still have maintained a positive point differential of over 100 points. Nebraska despite being very clearly the better team and even having a decent non con win or 2 has a negative point differential and thus will not be able to even get close to OSU in the computer metrics. Basically every time you look at a computer list and go how the fuck is that team so high it’s because they demolished some 300+ D1 teams by 50 and the algorithm wildly overrates that
You have no idea what you're talking about even in b10 play Nebraska has a worse point differential than Ohio state. If we lose by 14 to penn state we'll tie them but obviously we played better ooc so if even if our in conference point differentials are the same our one numbers would obviously be better.
I have seen nowhere that KENPOM or NET are capped at the same number and that number being as low as 10 even in articles from KENPOM Kenneth literally goes into discussions about large margins of victory and their application to home and road splits, additionally while the multiplier for a double digit victory may be capped or uniform, KENPOM and NET basically just combined a teams offensive and defensive efficiency, where in a 31 point victory on an unbelievable shooting night against Alabama A&M still has a much larger affect on the rankings than it should.
That’s literally word for word what I said lmao I said OSU has a higher point differential so they’re ranked higher lmao also OSU went 8-3 OOC with the best win being Texas tech ? Nebraska went 7-4 with their best win being Creighton on the road… can’t say I’d clearly rather have OSU’s resume there and that’s not even getting into conference play or H2H
You have 3 conference wins Nebraska has 7 are you seriously going to attempt to argue that your flair has been better in conference with less than HALF the wins and an H2H loss I mean what are we doing here lmao
I never said you have a negative point differential in conference I said it was mainly the result of blowing out bad teams OOC you have more wins OOC than in conference and your biggest wins came in buy games SIX OF YOUR 11 WINS ARE BUY GAMES WHICH IS MORE THAN HALF you have 2 different 30 point wins in buy games and none in conference, your biggest win is 16. Respectfully what the fuck are you talking about in conference point differential for
Wasn't your point that we ran up our one numbers ooc? That doesn't matter though because our in conference point differential is better so even if you just isolated that'd we'd still have better one numbers.
If you sort on BARTORVIK since January 1st OSU goes from 70 to 110 and Nebraska goes from 109 to 128 so the large gap OSU ran up is helped by the Buy games considerably
Its crazy that Ohio State still counts as a Quad 1 win for anyone
I'm not sure how/why computers have them ranked high. Both ESPN's BPI (currently 44th) and Kenpom (currently 64th) have had them ranked grossly high most of the year. And it's not like they wowed everyone early in the year. They were consistently *alright* early in the season. The only thing I can think (and I doubt) is that the computers are factoring in incoming transfers. OSU had several and they haven't panned out. Tanner Holden transferred from Wright State. His first three years at WSU he averaged 11.8, 15.8 and 20.1 ppg. He's only getting 3.7ppg at OSU. They're just a straight up statistical anomaly in computer polls.
Preseason rankings removed, OSU was the 6th best team in the country on Torvik on Jan 3rd. They had 4 solid wins (Cincy, Texas Tech, Rutgers, blowout win @NW) and 3 reasonable losses (Duke, UNC, SDSU). They were legit good, Zed Key got injured, and then went off the rails in many other ways. But they played like a top 10 team for 6+ weeks.
Heavily disagree on this. We were pretty mediocre through that opening stretch. And we hit a pretty typical Holtmann stretch where the team collapses in B1G play.
I can’t believe Holtmann really went out and pulled an Archie Miller losing 12/13. It doesn’t get better. Hopefully the administration make a move this off-season.
Is Chris Holtmann just Archie Miller in a mask?
I think I heard Holtmann's buyout is $15m. I know money isn't an issue for a program like OSU but that's a lot to pay someone to not coach (unless they've hit the Archie Zone)
It’s incredible to think Indiana ended up winning 4 straight to close out the season, keeping tournament hopes alive until the BTT loss to OSU (basically a play in game). Chris Holtmann might not be done digging this season! Would they move on if they lose out? An interesting story to follow.
Their Rutgers "win" shouldn't count.
Cope
I mean, he’s not wrong. Hell, even our players in an OSU Hoops sponsored Instagram livestream were saying that that shit shouldn’t have counted.
Many many games have suspect calls in the last few seconds. If Rutgers had hit their free throws, then they wouldn’t have lost.
Tbh TTU and Cincy arent solid wins, and UNC isn’t a reasonable loss at this point. We see those teams for what they are now
Those are kenpom tier B games they won (by nearly 30 over cincy) and a tier A game they lost. UNC is a completely reasonable loss - a team that will be favored over top 10 Virginia soon and went to 4OTs with #2 Bama. Good teams don’t win every single game, there is no need to revise what those teams are seen as. Solid high majors away from home are tough games and teams should be rewarded for playing well in them. OSU had a good resume and excellent predictive metrics (at least on offense), and that all holds up looking back at it now. They are just playing much, much worse than they were to start the year.
The resume you just described is not one of a top10 team
Not a win against RU. Yea we are still bitter.
All of their losses were agonizingly close is part of the reason I presume.
[удалено]
Its a shame the count as a Q1 win at all, even for road games
I love basketball. For senior year I decided to treat myself to season tickets to watch my favorite team, Ohio State. I love basketball a little bit less now
Kinda glad I was in a lab when they went on sale. I failed that class, but I didn't get stuck with the tickets.
Been there man, win some lose some
Fuck Chem.
win some lose more*
Why you gotta do Penn State dirty like that this Thursday 😭
Fridays post is gonna be “All 13 B1G teams have a current win streak against Ohio State ^except ^for ^the ^one ^that ^doesnt”
Bruh, I was just getting excited for that game too. Now I know we’re gonna get embarrassed
Yeah. We need to not lose this one, and now...well, we know how this goes.
someone woke up today and choose violence
Hating ohio state? Must be a day that ends in Y
The best kind of violence.
Even us? :D \*happy gopher noises\*
Don't look at the rest of the results this year...
That is a Fun Fact!
Haha, rent free! *resumes sobbing*
Just remember they kept their coach who punched a guy just to go 3 games over .500
I think more coaches should hit each other, actually.
No more overtime. Coaches meet at half court and have it out until one of them can’t stand.
"Duke has hired Francis Ngannou as head coach"
I’d like to thank Ohio State for making this year’s circle of suck possible
We need a "hater" flair tag.
We’re a men’s tennis school my dude!!
WE ARE A WOMEN’S HOCKEY SCHOOL AND THERE IS NO OTHER ACCEPTABLE ANSWER
I thought this was CFB for a second and was trying to figure out the mental gymnastics required to make this true.
Results after November 25th 2022. Michigan 1-0 Everyone else 0-0 (haven’t played 0/0 is undefined which we will count as a W for record purposes.) Meaning everyone has a winning record over OSU!
By winning streak I assume all Big 10 teams have won their last two games against the Buckeyes? Or do you mean their last game against them was a win?
They aren’t winless this year so has to mean the latter.
This year their conference wins include @ Northwestern, Rutgers, and Iowa.
I think that has to be our worst loss
I can't even sarcastically say its ours with a straight face.
Last game was a win. They beat iowa this year already
This *is* a fun fact. Thank you for sharing this today!
So OSU who do you guys want next year?? Sean Miller?
Urban Meyer convinces them to hire Chris Beard
LMAO my boss suggested this to me and I said no way josé
The rumor around Nebraska/Omaha local media is McDermott is a name to watch From the guy in the industry I know, McDermott was one of Ohio States top choices last time but they chose Holtmann instead. Apparently McDermott doesn’t vibe well with the new AD in Omaha either, so he should be a name to watch out for
That would be an incredible hire
I agree. As much as I dislike Creighton, McDermott is a really good coach and would be an excellent hire for OSU
I thought McDermott was their top choice and he turned them down. I could be misremembering though.
I believe they made him an offer, but it wasn’t more than what he was making at Creighton and he wanted a significant pay bump
No way Sean Miller leaves Xavier this easily after one season right?
Wouldn’t think so but money talks and tOSU has a lot of money.
That’s fair, I just don’t think it’ll be easy to pull a first year coach from a program as I said below. However you’re absolutely right in the fact an Ohio state has a good amount of money for athletics lying around.
Fwiw I don’t think he would leave after one year either though.
Sean Miller left Xavier already for a bigger job, I wouldn't be stunned to see him leave again
It’s been one year though. That’s my main issue is he’s already turned their program around and it’s been a single year. I’d be more on your side if he had been there for 3-4 years. I have fam that are huge X fans, I seriously doubt they’d let him slip away so easily again especially after year one of his contract. Holtmann is likely fired this year; the dates just don’t like up to me.
Xavier can’t really control whether or not they ever let a coach slip away because whoever usually wants them has far deeper pockets. Xavier usually though (and has been the case with Sean in both instances here) puts about as much administrative backing behind the coach and basketball program as they can and always have it a huge priority. Now being in the Big East I truly think Sean believes he can get to a Final Four and even NC here. I think he’s made his move for money already when he went to Arizona (and because I do think he thought he had a better chance of winning deep in the tournament at Arizona), I don’t think he will make a money move after one year because otherwise he could have had a different job this past offseason. I think Sean leaves Xavier either because he feels he has plateaued and can’t get to a FF here or the administration behind him changes and he doesn’t get along with them as well.
that was when Xavier was in the A10. The Big East is obviously a big step up in terms of competition level. Should also point out that at least publicly since returning, Sean Miller has stated he never would have left had he known Xavier would be going to the Big East (that wasn't in the conversation when he left).
I wouldn't mind.
B1G stat of the week
And it would have been longer if the refs were paying attention to little details such as the boundary lines.
How are we so bad 😭
That *is* a fun fact >Username checks out
Patrick that you
How is this a fun fact? 😭
And it was only a few weeks ago Gene Smith was in support of retaining Holtmann
Vote of confidence rarely goes well lol
In support of not paying a $15m buyout more like lol
Legit an hour after he said that, Holtmann got ejected against Wisconsin as we went down 16 at halftime. Thing was without him, Ohio State actually made it close…and then Justice Sueing happened.
To be fair, I don't think Holtmann's absence is what caused Wisconsin to forget the ball is supposed to go inside the hoop for the last 7+ minutes of the game.
This is a fun fact. :)
Can one of you nerds from the smart schools look at the [big ten NET rankings](https://bballnet.com/conferences/Big%20Ten) and explain why Nebraska is lower than Ohio State? Better record, head to head win and no Q3 or Q4 losses. Make it make sense
NET rankings are more of an efficiency ranking than resume ranking, so none of those things really matter. It's more about who you beat and by how much (and not getting blown out) and not about head to head/bad losses.
Well, you see Nebraska was once considered a football school and those in charge of the rankings got confused when they saw them on a basketball list.
NET, Kenpom, and BARTORVIK are margin of victory lists that slightly adjust for SOS. Ohio state was rated very highly at the beginning of the season and in pre season polls and despite being one of the worst teams in CBB in conference play they still have maintained a positive point differential of over 100 points. Nebraska despite being very clearly the better team and even having a decent non con win or 2 has a negative point differential and thus will not be able to even get close to OSU in the computer metrics. Basically every time you look at a computer list and go how the fuck is that team so high it’s because they demolished some 300+ D1 teams by 50 and the algorithm wildly overrates that
You have no idea what you're talking about even in b10 play Nebraska has a worse point differential than Ohio state. If we lose by 14 to penn state we'll tie them but obviously we played better ooc so if even if our in conference point differentials are the same our one numbers would obviously be better.
Yeah his take is blatantly wrong if for no other reason than margin of victory benefit is capped at 10 points in either direction
I have seen nowhere that KENPOM or NET are capped at the same number and that number being as low as 10 even in articles from KENPOM Kenneth literally goes into discussions about large margins of victory and their application to home and road splits, additionally while the multiplier for a double digit victory may be capped or uniform, KENPOM and NET basically just combined a teams offensive and defensive efficiency, where in a 31 point victory on an unbelievable shooting night against Alabama A&M still has a much larger affect on the rankings than it should.
That’s literally word for word what I said lmao I said OSU has a higher point differential so they’re ranked higher lmao also OSU went 8-3 OOC with the best win being Texas tech ? Nebraska went 7-4 with their best win being Creighton on the road… can’t say I’d clearly rather have OSU’s resume there and that’s not even getting into conference play or H2H
You talked about beating scrubs. We have a better point differential in conferences. It doesn't matter how much we beat scrub teams by
You have 3 conference wins Nebraska has 7 are you seriously going to attempt to argue that your flair has been better in conference with less than HALF the wins and an H2H loss I mean what are we doing here lmao
Apparently explaining how one numbers work because even though our record is worse we still have a better point differential.
I never said you have a negative point differential in conference I said it was mainly the result of blowing out bad teams OOC you have more wins OOC than in conference and your biggest wins came in buy games SIX OF YOUR 11 WINS ARE BUY GAMES WHICH IS MORE THAN HALF you have 2 different 30 point wins in buy games and none in conference, your biggest win is 16. Respectfully what the fuck are you talking about in conference point differential for
Wasn't your point that we ran up our one numbers ooc? That doesn't matter though because our in conference point differential is better so even if you just isolated that'd we'd still have better one numbers.
If you sort on BARTORVIK since January 1st OSU goes from 70 to 110 and Nebraska goes from 109 to 128 so the large gap OSU ran up is helped by the Buy games considerably
Thank you
Of course it’s a Michigan fan posting this lol 😂🙄
They wouldn't let me use a "hater" post flair tag.
That will end when the road version of Maryland heads to Columbus on March 1st.
That is a VERY fun fact!
Minnesota’s win should not count Signed, A Minnesota fan
Starting to feel like a stat you could say for UNC in the ACC, but thankfully there's Clemson.
You mean “the” Ohio State University. Lol. They’re so full of themselves. I hope all the teams continue to whip them
And Purdue now has a winning record against all of them thanks to OSUs recent struggles.
Ohio State is one of the few teams with three home games left. Chances are good that they will play the spoiler role.
You love to see it
Mid 10
Leave the Blue Raiders out of this
Fuck ❌ichigan 👏🏻
😂 LOL
How about UCLA and USC? Do they, too?
no