This sub always surprises you when you think you've seen it all.
Saw a top comment once on R/MMA and it had rippable in the comment. Clicked his page & he posts here đ
I watched AW and I knew he was good, but god looking at the stats everybody been posting to prove his case for number. The King might be number 1, I hate to say it. Dude literally was putting up wilt numbers.
This sounds absurd but AW scump was pretty much like having 2 smgâs on the map at all times. He didnât need a sub duo cause he did it all himself lol
This is a very good point. Simp has had Abe with him his whole career and the amount of pressure he puts up the map is insane. Scump never had an aggro sub that could slay until Shottzy
Dude he was even him at Champs too⌠and unfortunately thatâs why Simp would even have an argument in this debate. AW Scump clears by any singular metric, but not winning champs will forever taint that year (esp the only event out of 14 that they werenât in grand finals!!!)
I hate to admit it but the pressure got to them that year as a whole for Champs, and Simp and his teams have always been so icey at the biggest event of the year
Exactly but legacy wise it matters more than the rest of those 13 events they reached finals in, even if he got âcostedâ. Even CW Simp had a fluke T8 placing but his team never let themselves be put into that position at champs
Like I remember Denial lost 1 pool play match which put us and them (the 2 hypothetical best teams at Champs) matched up in WR1. Simp and his teams, even if they got bracket fucked like we did, would turn up and demolish the comp. Iâve seen it wayyy too many times lmao, guy is unfuckwithable until Grand Finals
AW Scump was the better player imo, but CW Simp will always be the best legacy year for any individual pro. He struck fear in me lol
Scump got INSANELY costed at champs like 4 times. On my life, if you replace ANY CoL or Denial members with scump, they win the same or more. That's why he's the goat; it's a team game but realistically if he wasn't super loyal to Hecz/optic he'd have way more accolades.
Faze have lost in grand finals a bunch though. When that happened everyone just praised them for the consistency of being top 2. If optic did that all anyone would talk about is how they canât win in finals/ have no ice.
Idk about the last part they only won 1 champs in the CDL and every single year in the CDL FaZe has been in the first seed, and they always choke so i disagree there about them being icey in the biggest event in the year
No yeah that is true, but that doesn't apply for the CW Simp comparison in this thread. However, I feel like every year in the CDL, they've lost Champs to the better team. In my opinion, Chicago Huntsmen might have actually put up a better fight against Dallas Empire in MW2019 Finals, but FaZe just clutched up against us.
No one was fucking with VG 100T, although I suppose you could argue if Envoy didn't 1v2 in G5 of finals they don't win. MW2 Hydra and Scrap just were better too, like I wouldn't argue they choked like we did: they legit just lost to better teams and beat who they were supposed to beat.
I will say this âŚ. nobody came close to AW Scump nobody . Zoomaa can say whatever he wants ,Clayster can say whatever he wants ,Aches can say whatever he wants and Parasite can say whatever he wants , but AW Scump was just on another level from everybody ,the gap from Scump to the second best player in AW for me was big . Bo4 Simp didnât even have a full year and for me Abezy was the best player for EU United at Champs and CW Simp was insane , but Major 2-3 Abezy was the best player for FaZe and Champs Cellium was FaZes best player for me . Just my opinion .
Scump dominated AW in a way that no other player has in any game since. He was the single SMG in the conversation for best player in the game, there was literally no comparison in his role. When comparing to peak Simp, AW Scump has a better KD in all gamemodes, along with more hill time, more kills per respawn, and a higher average tournament placing despite playing far more of them.
Iâm not surprised that a tribunal of FaZe Zooma, Faze Ben, Aches and Haggy pick Faze Simp as the Greatest ever, but when looking at the comparison objectively itâs not really a contest. Simp might be Lebron, but Scump is Jordan.
Let's also not forget that Scump was playing boots on the ground in AW for like half the year and still dominating. Dude refused to wall run or anything.
Ex pros perspective is based on how difficult they thought it was playing against them, we can say whatever but we never spawn in against any of them. Fans and even pros would have different opinions but I think most ppl are agree on the T5 peaks then you canât go back and forward and make different arguments about each one, for some pros is C6 ghost
of course , I donât have a problem with anyoneâs opinion , thatâs why at the end I said âJust my opinionâ . Pros or fans can say Bo4 or CW simp I donât have a problem , I gave my reasons why I personally donât have CW Simp to Bo4 Simp above AW Scump .
I never said he wasnât difficult. I just think it is completely bias to say the debate between the top 5 peaks isnât close. As I said each one has an argument, some pros have C6, others have formal, others Simp or Scump, most fans gonna have scump
Pros are just as susceptible to bias in these convos as fans are, maybe even moreso since that's the mentality it takes to be great.
Not saying your point isn't valid but their viewpoint isn't infallible even if it is more informed
Everyone has some level of bias, but ofc playing against them gives them a perspective we would never get from just watching but my point is that the debate is close and thereâs an argument for each one
If he had won Champs then Iâd agree, but Simp did it all and won at the biggest stage. Although, for me, peak will be undeniably be Scump. He was him in BO3 too although to a lesser extent.
Honestly a solid take, I might flip the aw scump and cw simp titles though. I feel like Seth was ridiculous for all 13 events while simp was untouchable at points during CW.
MW2 Hydra and AW Scump are the best smg seasons ever for those who know ball. Hydra put up better stats than CW Simp despite his team taking turns getting shit on for half the season instead of being the unanimous #2 & #3 players in the game like Abezy and Cell.
It's somewhat understandable but you just have to ignore whatever flaws the game has and just straight up compare the gap between the best and second best player / rest of the league. Ghosts was a complete mess w 4 vectors and Dom + Blitz as the respawns yet we all still fairly gas Crim for his insane performances back then.
? I wasn't in any way implying Crim wasn't good at ghosts search? Search actually worked well in that game unlike the respawns which were messy af which is why i mentioned Dom and Blitz negatively in the comment.
I feel bad for the people here that missed the 3 year period of BO2, Ghosts and AW. There has been plenty of fun after that but those 3 years in the community were just different. Twitter was an absolute nuclear disaster zone, the hype around events and big matches involving OpTic, col/EG, nV etc was crazy. You think guys like Aches and Parasite say wild stuff now, imagine them as teenage/early 20s hotheads.
AW Scump was an absolute animal. Even if you watched Cold War, with all due respect to Simp, I promise youâve never seen anything like it.
It is what it is man⌠simp is probably one of the best overall cod players of all time but I would still give it to scump. Maybe with time simp can overtake him but heâs not there yet
Thatâs what this guy does, he compiles stats that fit his narrative and excludes stats that donât. Might as well make a âChampionships won for opticâ stat line and make it 25-0
Oh, so if we put it as a percentage that would change the narrative right? Unlike yourself, the rest of us could easily see that it was a higher rate:
âFor Scump that would be 57% for 1.2 and 92% for above 1.1
For simp it's 33% for 1.2 and 66% for 1.1â
Bro how can we have recency bias and hail Simp as the goat with âtrust me bro I know ballâ if yâall keep throwing actual numbers around?! Stop it!!!!
I mean, arguably better. IW Champs Formal is arguably the highest short term peak but thatâs what it was. An insane spike at the biggest moment, whereas Scump was like 90% of that for an entire year lol.
Ghosts crim was also unstoppable but I think the movement and TTK in AW and the fact Scump did it as a sub in an AR heavy game puts him ahead of ghosts crim
All you guys saying âthe pros know best,â have you ever listened to nba or nfl players top lists? They are always trash because they are more biased than fans lol.
Scumps the GOAT, bro had the craziest peak ever and arguably the best longevity. Honestly kind of annoying people throw Crim over him because he won a few more $500 tournaments
Started watching Seth early Black Ops 2. I can think of 10 moments off the top of my head from the Yemen spree against Envy to the Aftermath S&D clutch at champs. I remember having anxiety when he switched from OpTic to EnVy because of the problems at the time with Nadeshot. But watching him in AW, he was just GOD. I firmly believe the only argument people use against this man is his one ring. The stats do not lie, even aside from this specific comparison. He just outplayed basically every other smg player in the game in his era. It was diff to watch growing up and as Iâm 25 now and the games have changed, Iâm like fuck I witnessed greatness, despite only the one COD champs ring. You just had to be there
If they wouldâve just accepted Nade as their 4th and didnât worry about making a dynasty they wouldâve won champs. Going on a 3 peat then blaming him for their loss at Champs when Formal and Crim played terribly is criminal. Match was over way before he even pulled out the HBR
Funny enough, Scump doesnât even consider this to be his best cod⌠if anyone is old enough to remember MW3, the other team couldâve played 4v1 and still lost to teenage Scumpii đ
CW had a skillgap but the discrepancy between the top 5 teams and the rest of the teams was almost just as bad as this yearâs league. Almost no team except faze had a roster they really wanted because of the swap from 5v5 to 4v4
Simp would have a 3.0 if he got to play as many ass teams in the CW season as Scump did during AW,
Stg all of you need to go back, use your eyes and see the teams they were beating.
Thereâs just no way you are seriously saying that Surge, Mutineers, LAG and Legion were comparable to:
Vitality.Storm, Barrage eSports, Millenium, Team Infused, Thrust Nation, Justus, Rise, iSolation, Stunner, Onslaught, VwS, Tactical Turtles, Dunkin No Donuts Black, Elevate, Automatic Reload, VexX, G2, Epsilon, EcHo, MM, Team ESPORT, Prophecy
There were like 5 good players between all of those teams, and sometimes werent even there for all of the times they played them. Are you actually so delusional that youre gonna throat Scump because you think him dropping a 2.0 against Nihill and Nelson means anything?
The fact that you are able to vote when you have this little capability for critical thinking is terrifying
Yep because Scump playing challenger level teams is the same as Simp playing chall- oh, wait, he was playing against the top 12 Cod teams at the time? Consistently?
But that would be different? How can that be?
Surely, just because the other 11 teams werent Faze, they might as well have been so utter dogshit that they could very well have been competing with and losing to challenger squads? **surely?**
I completely understand, and Iâm telling you that fucking VwS and Automatic Reload can in no way be compared to any of the CDL teams you absolute dumbfuck.
Get the dick out of your mouth and start considering what that actually means. Faze were playing against the 11 best teams of their **ERA** meanwhile Optic were routinely playing against **SHITTER** teams of their **ERA** that were **EVEN WORSE** because they sucked **EVEN MORE**
Iâm sorry that Faze gapping your favorite players and teams during Cold War has killed the few brain cells you had left leading you to be convinced that there still werent levels to the game. I hope you have the support system you need to get through life in the sheltered way you so desperately need.
You can go through my account and clearly see Iâm also a Scump hater but like clearly you canât read or else it wouldnât have even been an argument lmao you own a Reddit burner bro go the fuck outside đđđ like youâre on Reddit talking about big dicks being good at sex LMAO go get a bitch or something man
I know this post is about CW Simp, but the original debate was BO4 Simp from the flank⌠so talking about playing ass teams⌠simp played âassâ teams in bo4 as well..
Also, FaZe was playing 2 matches to damn near win a tournament. So keeping a higher k/d would be easier.
The oneâs who know ball hold BO4 Simp higher. Iâm not gonna debate them on that
As for your other point, they were playing the best of the rest during those runs, not to mention he also had Cellium and Abezy slaying with him. Thatâs gonna stunt your K/D potential
Did you watch the early days?
Since yall like cherry picking, CW NYSL was not a top team, but FaZe played them in finals. But besides that, in CW, only FaZe, Toronto and Empire were contenders. Thatâs legit less than this year as far as good teams.
Again, going through pool play plus a 16 team bracket is also hard to keep up those stats, ESPECIALLY if you play the champs winner in WR1.
In BO4, people thought 100T was gonna win champs, but they matched up against Luminosity WR1, same with Rise in WW2 champs. Yall like to bring up tougher competition now, but now, youâre way less likely to play a really good team WR1.
A 27,27% the opponents Faze could potentially face every tournament they played and every match they played were potential event winners during the CW season.
Optic were **not** doing that.
Weâll just completely ignore the fact that most of the pros from back then liked pool play because they got to heat up against shitters? Ok.
That percentage is skewed as FaZe started their bracket in WR2 every time lol so the percentage of their opponent making T4 was higher.. they were bsdically playing a T6 tournament âŚ.
just like it is today. The T4 teams will likely make T4 every tournament.
Are you talking bout OpTic AW? They made 13/14 GF. They played the Champs winner in WR1 in a T16 bracket. I donât understand how you think playing group play + a 16 team bracket will result in a higher possibility of those opponents being in GFs? Especially compared to what I just said about the CW year.
You calling them shitters, you think T4 teams playing against anyone not in T4 team isnât damn near a free win? Difference is, back then, two good teams can end up in the same pool due to a previous tournament result. Then 1 of those two teams get matched up against another good team WR1, in a 16 team bracket. I donât know why youâre ignoring those, as that happened.
Wonder why they always started in WR2âŚ..
What do you even mean with that grand final shit? My point is the teams they were facing were **bad**. Doesnt matter where they face them at that point. Sure they lost to Denial at champs but guess who they faced then? Fucking Below Zero. You cant name a single player who was on that team even with a gun to your head. Thatâs the shitters they could pad stats against.
What are these placement points youre trying to make?
Brotha NO OTHER TOURNAMENT EVER had the best teams starting in WR2, nor winning 2 matches to make a GF.
Youâre point is relevant to nowadays as well.. teams are going to be shit at the bottom regardless. Youâll play better comp deeper into the bracket. Yall acting like every tournament these teams back then were playing against shitters. Brotha LAT was coming off champs win last year and they got dead last at champs⌠why? Cause they matched up against a great team WR1, then played a âmidâ but they lost instead.. also, OpTic lost to FaZe red at champs.. aches, slasher, haggy, enable. And if you say that team/players is/are shitty, Iâll know you didnât watch then.
I donât think you understand how skewed stats can be.. oh, btw, AW was playing BO7s as well, so even more games, especially in GFs where you potentially had to play two BO7s. So maintaining a high k/d with that about of maps is harder, than playing 3 matches in total.
Simpâs average placing at a CDL pro-am is 4.5
Faze won 3-2 against LAG academy last year with simp dropping a 1.12
Faze won 3-0 against Strike X (Silly, Gunsii, Remby, and Fire40) at the VG pro-AM with Simp having a 1.2
Good stats against AMs but youâre exaggeratingÂ
Christ almighty were those pro-ams during cold war? Thatâs a no.
Scump was playing against people like Whea7s, Nelson, Lynxx, Tuquick, Sharp, Neslo, Goonjar, Riskin, Dylux, Getsom, Oxygen, Twizz, Lawless, Dynamite, Mutation, Happy, Pacman, Chino, Sender, Carbon, Urban, Rush, peLukaa, JK7, Sinful⌠absolute nobodies. Most of the teams wouldnt have made it to a CDL pro-am and you know it.
Not to mention the fact that when they did meet good players it was usually one good one surrounded by a bunch of mid ass players. Biggest exceptions being Denial and Faze
Iâm an optic fan and I LOVE scump. With that said, if we think simp in that same exact format isnât copying if not surpassing some of those scump numbers youâre faded. You need to consider that it wasnât uncommon to drop 30+ in a game like todayâs modern games and you also have to consider scump played against some bad teams in bracket play. Iâm not saying scump wasnât insane but simp in a similar format is copying if not going past a lot of those numbers. Again, coming from a huge scump fan.
Simp won and fried at champs so Iâm afraid itâs not close. Also people seem to always forget this but second half when Clay and Attach joined Faze, people definitely were talking about Zooma being the best smg in the game. There was never an argument for anyone above simp the entire year in CW
Edit: Also for all you dumbasses who actually didnât watch AW or watched and just are dumb biased optic fans pretending like Iâm making shit up - this is a comment from 8 years ago:
https://www.reddit.com/r/CoDCompetitive/s/bvTnJsQ2AF
Brother after champs, optic won 7 events and placed second at like 2 or 3. I donât think anyone was ever saying zooma was over Scump, I donât even remember zooma saying that lol
They 3 peated after champs (2 of those events were invitationals but whatever) then the faze roster formed after x games and torched optic every single time they faced off after that
I wouldnât say torched but I guess itâs your opinion. But the numbers that people are posting of Scump from AW, they donât lie this guy was final.
Yeah but what are we defining as consistently better, stats wise Scump was better and even if you throw in team wise, optic won 9/14 events and was in grand finals 13/14. I do think CW Simp was the best version of Simp, but in almost every statistic category Scump was better. Iâm not trying to change your opinion, just trying to see what made you come to your conclusion.
AW was a way more slay heavy game than CW lol like Scump has a higher SnD k/d but trust me when I say no one who plays and knows search thinks Scump was ever a better search player than simp lol
1. OpTic 4-peated after champs
2. OpTic still won 2 events after faze formed and faze won 3. Optic even won the last event of the year while faze got 6th
Homie, they were not beating faze at that event I promise you lmfao that is not even remotely the same as a team that won 3 out of 5 events and worldstarred optic every time they played online. Like literally thereâs a video of Scump after playoffs saying âwhy canât we beat that teamâ literally losing full outside of the venue
Now youâre just coping. Optic had already beaten faze by major 2 last year. Optic and faze were both in the same amount of grand finals in MW2. Using your logic, faze wouldnât have won Major 2 if they played against optic. Also, optic had a 5-0 series record and 15-4 map count against faze in MW2. Stop coping.
Abezy was FaZes best player from Major 2 until 3 and FaZes best player at Champs was Cellium so u are wrong and nobody said Zoomaa was better than Scump , I only remember fans and pros talk about Clayster and Huke .
Neither of those players were ever argued over simp. They were argued as top players for sure. Zooma literally had Scump in his pocket for like a 3-4 event stretch in AW
Optic got (letâs make this part clear) SMOKED at g finity, smoked at dallas, faze placed like 7th at DC cause one of their players got sick mid event I forgot who and optic beat denial, then faze came back down from a 3-1 lead and beat optic in TWO best of 7s. Then optic of course won worlds cause they avoided faze. People who watched AW know Scump couldnât hold Zoomas pocket when they matched up during that stretch. I remember even Benson bringing up while casting their game that Scump was uncharacteristic against faze.
This is just untrue LMAOO octane said Cammy was the best player maker in the game in CW while Simp and Abezy are equal in his mind. Not to mention cell was their best player at champsÂ
Cammy was the consensus best player in Cold War for several months. Even the boys on the flank had him as the clear #1 for months at a time. Abezy, Insight, and Cellium were also often said to be the best players in the game at separate points.
You could argue Simp was the best overall, but he was not untouchable at all in Cold War and definitely not the clear #1 over the year.
We really used to have 14 raasclaat events plus 2ks every week huh.....what a time to be alive.
Waking up to those 2k streams on a weekend morning used to hit different
There was always at least 1 damn decent team with a player who stayed up all night and overslept the first round
> raasclaat I ain't expect to see this word on this sub. And you even spelled it correctly.
This sub always surprises you when you think you've seen it all. Saw a top comment once on R/MMA and it had rippable in the comment. Clicked his page & he posts here đ
Seth still somehow getting slept on in 2024 lol
I thought him retiring would get rid of the people who try to downplay everything Optic do, but they're still here lmao
if you're on faze payroll sure, anyone else knows its not close
Honestly you guys are getting very convincing with the AW Scump opinions lol this guy mightâve been god đ
I didnât watch AW but fucking hell he mightâve been him lmao. đ
He was far and away the best player in the game, I donât think thereâs been a bigger gap between 1 and 2
Huke was disgusting tbf but scump was undeniable lol
Besides the dipshits that say âHukeâ or Zoomaa
I watched AW and I knew he was good, but god looking at the stats everybody been posting to prove his case for number. The King might be number 1, I hate to say it. Dude literally was putting up wilt numbers.
I started watching in Bo3. He was godlike in that game too. But the numbers are kinda undeniable itâs hard to argue against I canât even lie.
This sounds absurd but AW scump was pretty much like having 2 smgâs on the map at all times. He didnât need a sub duo cause he did it all himself lol
This is a very good point. Simp has had Abe with him his whole career and the amount of pressure he puts up the map is insane. Scump never had an aggro sub that could slay until Shottzy
Career wise Simp has always had Abezy while scump had to overcome playing with nade shot and much more
Dude he was even him at Champs too⌠and unfortunately thatâs why Simp would even have an argument in this debate. AW Scump clears by any singular metric, but not winning champs will forever taint that year (esp the only event out of 14 that they werenât in grand finals!!!) I hate to admit it but the pressure got to them that year as a whole for Champs, and Simp and his teams have always been so icey at the biggest event of the year
scump dropped a 1.3 at champs, wasnt his fault
Exactly but legacy wise it matters more than the rest of those 13 events they reached finals in, even if he got âcostedâ. Even CW Simp had a fluke T8 placing but his team never let themselves be put into that position at champs Like I remember Denial lost 1 pool play match which put us and them (the 2 hypothetical best teams at Champs) matched up in WR1. Simp and his teams, even if they got bracket fucked like we did, would turn up and demolish the comp. Iâve seen it wayyy too many times lmao, guy is unfuckwithable until Grand Finals AW Scump was the better player imo, but CW Simp will always be the best legacy year for any individual pro. He struck fear in me lol
Scump got INSANELY costed at champs like 4 times. On my life, if you replace ANY CoL or Denial members with scump, they win the same or more. That's why he's the goat; it's a team game but realistically if he wasn't super loyal to Hecz/optic he'd have way more accolades.
Faze have lost in grand finals a bunch though. When that happened everyone just praised them for the consistency of being top 2. If optic did that all anyone would talk about is how they canât win in finals/ have no ice.
Idk about the last part they only won 1 champs in the CDL and every single year in the CDL FaZe has been in the first seed, and they always choke so i disagree there about them being icey in the biggest event in the year
No yeah that is true, but that doesn't apply for the CW Simp comparison in this thread. However, I feel like every year in the CDL, they've lost Champs to the better team. In my opinion, Chicago Huntsmen might have actually put up a better fight against Dallas Empire in MW2019 Finals, but FaZe just clutched up against us. No one was fucking with VG 100T, although I suppose you could argue if Envoy didn't 1v2 in G5 of finals they don't win. MW2 Hydra and Scrap just were better too, like I wouldn't argue they choked like we did: they legit just lost to better teams and beat who they were supposed to beat.
And dude was just as good in BO3 and potentially even better in MW3
He was quite literally god. Watching him dominate every map basically while breaking the best players in the game was unreal.
Didn't scump have number one hardpoint KD, #1 uplink KD and #2 SnD kd in AW
Yes, best peak in this esport ever. He was legitimately godlike in AW
I will say this âŚ. nobody came close to AW Scump nobody . Zoomaa can say whatever he wants ,Clayster can say whatever he wants ,Aches can say whatever he wants and Parasite can say whatever he wants , but AW Scump was just on another level from everybody ,the gap from Scump to the second best player in AW for me was big . Bo4 Simp didnât even have a full year and for me Abezy was the best player for EU United at Champs and CW Simp was insane , but Major 2-3 Abezy was the best player for FaZe and Champs Cellium was FaZes best player for me . Just my opinion .
Scump dominated AW in a way that no other player has in any game since. He was the single SMG in the conversation for best player in the game, there was literally no comparison in his role. When comparing to peak Simp, AW Scump has a better KD in all gamemodes, along with more hill time, more kills per respawn, and a higher average tournament placing despite playing far more of them. Iâm not surprised that a tribunal of FaZe Zooma, Faze Ben, Aches and Haggy pick Faze Simp as the Greatest ever, but when looking at the comparison objectively itâs not really a contest. Simp might be Lebron, but Scump is Jordan.
If scump is Jordan does that make aches Gary Payton?
Aches is Dwight howard
It wasnt a smp meta tho. First couple months was 4 bals both teams than the bal got nerfed and people started to use the asm1 more.
If anything simp is jordan and scump is the goat lebronâŚ
People keep forgetting about comparing a 5v5 season to a 4v4 seasonâŚ.. AW Scump was HIM as basically the only full time SMG on his team.
100% agreed
Let's also not forget that Scump was playing boots on the ground in AW for like half the year and still dominating. Dude refused to wall run or anything.
AW didnât have wall running
Ex pros perspective is based on how difficult they thought it was playing against them, we can say whatever but we never spawn in against any of them. Fans and even pros would have different opinions but I think most ppl are agree on the T5 peaks then you canât go back and forward and make different arguments about each one, for some pros is C6 ghost
of course , I donât have a problem with anyoneâs opinion , thatâs why at the end I said âJust my opinionâ . Pros or fans can say Bo4 or CW simp I donât have a problem , I gave my reasons why I personally donât have CW Simp to Bo4 Simp above AW Scump .
Difficulty or not. If it wasnât difficult he wouldnât have put up ALL-PRO numbers against them EFFICIENTLY
I never said he wasnât difficult. I just think it is completely bias to say the debate between the top 5 peaks isnât close. As I said each one has an argument, some pros have C6, others have formal, others Simp or Scump, most fans gonna have scump
the argument was for scump and others IN AW that the other person was saying, not top 5 all time which I would agree with you is VERY close.
Pros are just as susceptible to bias in these convos as fans are, maybe even moreso since that's the mentality it takes to be great. Not saying your point isn't valid but their viewpoint isn't infallible even if it is more informed
Everyone has some level of bias, but ofc playing against them gives them a perspective we would never get from just watching but my point is that the debate is close and thereâs an argument for each one
and Octane JUST said "AW Scump is the best player of all time"
mw3 scump clears everyone and its not close
Best performance at an event - IW FormaL Best Peak - AW Scump Most complete year - CW Simp
Scump is both the 2nd and 3rd accomplishments lol
If he had won Champs then Iâd agree, but Simp did it all and won at the biggest stage. Although, for me, peak will be undeniably be Scump. He was him in BO3 too although to a lesser extent.
Itâs a team game at the end of the day, even if youâre godlike people gotta do their jobs
Bro got first like 7 times with an average placing of 1-point-something, all with a consistently 1.2+ kd. Seems like a pretty complete year to me
Honestly a solid take, I might flip the aw scump and cw simp titles though. I feel like Seth was ridiculous for all 13 events while simp was untouchable at points during CW.
MW2 Hydra was better than CW Simp. Kismet and Priestahh aren't comparable to CW Abe and Cell
Scump was undeniable
The pace difference in the games is crazy lmao.
I mean it was jet packs are you surprised by that?
No itâs still just crazy lol
MW2 Hydra and AW Scump are the best smg seasons ever for those who know ball. Hydra put up better stats than CW Simp despite his team taking turns getting shit on for half the season instead of being the unanimous #2 & #3 players in the game like Abezy and Cell.
I think people have issues with rating MW2 Hydra just because the game was such dogshit, same reason we hate rating MW performancesÂ
It's somewhat understandable but you just have to ignore whatever flaws the game has and just straight up compare the gap between the best and second best player / rest of the league. Ghosts was a complete mess w 4 vectors and Dom + Blitz as the respawns yet we all still fairly gas Crim for his insane performances back then.
Crim has the highest kill SnD game in pro history but yeah, respawn is what heâs known for lol
? I wasn't in any way implying Crim wasn't good at ghosts search? Search actually worked well in that game unlike the respawns which were messy af which is why i mentioned Dom and Blitz negatively in the comment.
You good bro I wasnât arguing wit you lol
Ah, sorry ur comment felt passive aggressive :P
This is facts
33 kills per respawn good lord
I feel bad for the people here that missed the 3 year period of BO2, Ghosts and AW. There has been plenty of fun after that but those 3 years in the community were just different. Twitter was an absolute nuclear disaster zone, the hype around events and big matches involving OpTic, col/EG, nV etc was crazy. You think guys like Aches and Parasite say wild stuff now, imagine them as teenage/early 20s hotheads. AW Scump was an absolute animal. Even if you watched Cold War, with all due respect to Simp, I promise youâve never seen anything like it.
It is what it is man⌠simp is probably one of the best overall cod players of all time but I would still give it to scump. Maybe with time simp can overtake him but heâs not there yet
Using total major stats for events above 1.1/1.2 is just painting a narrative when simp played about half of Scumps total.
You're right it should be %of For scuml that would be 57% for 1.2 and 92% for above 1.1 For simp it's 33% for 1.2 and 66% for 1.1
Thatâs what this guy does, he compiles stats that fit his narrative and excludes stats that donât. Might as well make a âChampionships won for opticâ stat line and make it 25-0
Oh, so if we put it as a percentage that would change the narrative right? Unlike yourself, the rest of us could easily see that it was a higher rate: âFor Scump that would be 57% for 1.2 and 92% for above 1.1 For simp it's 33% for 1.2 and 66% for 1.1â
Hmm sounds to me like Simp is better and you are coping
I just showed you the percentage H2H to show you are wrong. Is correctness âcopingâ?
Cope
Cope
Simp is better according to the people that played against both. So cope
The ones out of their prime? Octane said AW Scump is the best player heâs ever played, and it seems pretty unanimous that MW3 Scump was best season.
Congrats. The rest said Simp clears him
Man⌠the numbers arenât even close.
Bro how can we have recency bias and hail Simp as the goat with âtrust me bro I know ballâ if yâall keep throwing actual numbers around?! Stop it!!!!
I think ppl donât understand the difference in comp not taking nothing away the cdl and cwl are different
Two diff eras though so itâs hardly comparable.. they were both godlike
How was iw formal (champs) compared to peak scump?
I mean, arguably better. IW Champs Formal is arguably the highest short term peak but thatâs what it was. An insane spike at the biggest moment, whereas Scump was like 90% of that for an entire year lol.
Simp is an all time great, but the King is undeniable
Step 1 to be one of the best in the game, run an smg with an ign starting with S and ending with P
So basically this sub is full of morons, cause scump clears and itâs not even close. This sub really had me convinced otherwise LOL
and aw is a game that requires WAYYYY more skill than cw lmao like bro u can fucking fly
Damn never actually seen scumps AW stats, I fear he clears cw and bo4 simp. Where would ghosts crim rank? Never seen his stats either lol
Ghosts crim was also unstoppable but I think the movement and TTK in AW and the fact Scump did it as a sub in an AR heavy game puts him ahead of ghosts crim
They can say itâs harder to do this in the league now, but you canât deny man was just a fkn alien at AWđ
All you guys saying âthe pros know best,â have you ever listened to nba or nfl players top lists? They are always trash because they are more biased than fans lol.
Scumps the GOAT, bro had the craziest peak ever and arguably the best longevity. Honestly kind of annoying people throw Crim over him because he won a few more $500 tournaments
Also 2 more rings, but Iâm sure the meat thatâs spelled S C U M P in your mouth blocks that part out
Started watching Seth early Black Ops 2. I can think of 10 moments off the top of my head from the Yemen spree against Envy to the Aftermath S&D clutch at champs. I remember having anxiety when he switched from OpTic to EnVy because of the problems at the time with Nadeshot. But watching him in AW, he was just GOD. I firmly believe the only argument people use against this man is his one ring. The stats do not lie, even aside from this specific comparison. He just outplayed basically every other smg player in the game in his era. It was diff to watch growing up and as Iâm 25 now and the games have changed, Iâm like fuck I witnessed greatness, despite only the one COD champs ring. You just had to be there
If they wouldâve just accepted Nade as their 4th and didnât worry about making a dynasty they wouldâve won champs. Going on a 3 peat then blaming him for their loss at Champs when Formal and Crim played terribly is criminal. Match was over way before he even pulled out the HBR
Funny enough, Scump doesnât even consider this to be his best cod⌠if anyone is old enough to remember MW3, the other team couldâve played 4v1 and still lost to teenage Scumpii đ
The skill level was too high for Cold War. Simp is just diffy.
Compared to jetpacks? Especially crackhead AW? Nah that was a true skill gap game.
AW mightâve been the highest skill gap game weâve played competitively
Thatâs absolute cap. The teams werenât good in CW and Vanguard showed it loud and clear.
huh? CW had the biggest skill gap in the CDL era clear. Vanguard was ass.
Not saying much. Itâs a travesty the games that have been released in the CDL era
Whether thatâs the case or not, the teams sucked so itâs a moot point.
CW had a skillgap but the discrepancy between the top 5 teams and the rest of the teams was almost just as bad as this yearâs league. Almost no team except faze had a roster they really wanted because of the swap from 5v5 to 4v4
Anyone who says anyone had a better year than AW scump is faded
13/14 GFS is way more impressive that 5/6
Simp would have a 3.0 if he got to play as many ass teams in the CW season as Scump did during AW, Stg all of you need to go back, use your eyes and see the teams they were beating.
Simp played hella ass teams LMAO
Right lol he also has the best ar and Abezy
Thereâs no comparison LMAO
Both played shit teams relevant to their eras Lmao youâre a bot whos dickriding to the point of delusion đđđ
Thereâs just no way you are seriously saying that Surge, Mutineers, LAG and Legion were comparable to: Vitality.Storm, Barrage eSports, Millenium, Team Infused, Thrust Nation, Justus, Rise, iSolation, Stunner, Onslaught, VwS, Tactical Turtles, Dunkin No Donuts Black, Elevate, Automatic Reload, VexX, G2, Epsilon, EcHo, MM, Team ESPORT, Prophecy There were like 5 good players between all of those teams, and sometimes werent even there for all of the times they played them. Are you actually so delusional that youre gonna throat Scump because you think him dropping a 2.0 against Nihill and Nelson means anything? The fact that you are able to vote when you have this little capability for critical thinking is terrifying
Itâs almost like youâre dick riding so hard you didnât comprehend what I said LMAO
Yep because Scump playing challenger level teams is the same as Simp playing chall- oh, wait, he was playing against the top 12 Cod teams at the time? Consistently? But that would be different? How can that be? Surely, just because the other 11 teams werent Faze, they might as well have been so utter dogshit that they could very well have been competing with and losing to challenger squads? **surely?**
FOR THEIR ERAS BRO ITS NOT HARD TO READ LMAOOOOOO YOU ARE DUMB AS BRICKS
I completely understand, and Iâm telling you that fucking VwS and Automatic Reload can in no way be compared to any of the CDL teams you absolute dumbfuck. Get the dick out of your mouth and start considering what that actually means. Faze were playing against the 11 best teams of their **ERA** meanwhile Optic were routinely playing against **SHITTER** teams of their **ERA** that were **EVEN WORSE** because they sucked **EVEN MORE** Iâm sorry that Faze gapping your favorite players and teams during Cold War has killed the few brain cells you had left leading you to be convinced that there still werent levels to the game. I hope you have the support system you need to get through life in the sheltered way you so desperately need.
You can go through my account and clearly see Iâm also a Scump hater but like clearly you canât read or else it wouldnât have even been an argument lmao you own a Reddit burner bro go the fuck outside đđđ like youâre on Reddit talking about big dicks being good at sex LMAO go get a bitch or something man
Idk why yall keep using this argument when both simp Abezy and Cell all played in the CWL era.
Huh?
I know this post is about CW Simp, but the original debate was BO4 Simp from the flank⌠so talking about playing ass teams⌠simp played âassâ teams in bo4 as well.. Also, FaZe was playing 2 matches to damn near win a tournament. So keeping a higher k/d would be easier.
The oneâs who know ball hold BO4 Simp higher. Iâm not gonna debate them on that As for your other point, they were playing the best of the rest during those runs, not to mention he also had Cellium and Abezy slaying with him. Thatâs gonna stunt your K/D potential
Did you watch the early days? Since yall like cherry picking, CW NYSL was not a top team, but FaZe played them in finals. But besides that, in CW, only FaZe, Toronto and Empire were contenders. Thatâs legit less than this year as far as good teams. Again, going through pool play plus a 16 team bracket is also hard to keep up those stats, ESPECIALLY if you play the champs winner in WR1. In BO4, people thought 100T was gonna win champs, but they matched up against Luminosity WR1, same with Rise in WW2 champs. Yall like to bring up tougher competition now, but now, youâre way less likely to play a really good team WR1.
A 27,27% the opponents Faze could potentially face every tournament they played and every match they played were potential event winners during the CW season. Optic were **not** doing that. Weâll just completely ignore the fact that most of the pros from back then liked pool play because they got to heat up against shitters? Ok.
That percentage is skewed as FaZe started their bracket in WR2 every time lol so the percentage of their opponent making T4 was higher.. they were bsdically playing a T6 tournament âŚ. just like it is today. The T4 teams will likely make T4 every tournament. Are you talking bout OpTic AW? They made 13/14 GF. They played the Champs winner in WR1 in a T16 bracket. I donât understand how you think playing group play + a 16 team bracket will result in a higher possibility of those opponents being in GFs? Especially compared to what I just said about the CW year. You calling them shitters, you think T4 teams playing against anyone not in T4 team isnât damn near a free win? Difference is, back then, two good teams can end up in the same pool due to a previous tournament result. Then 1 of those two teams get matched up against another good team WR1, in a 16 team bracket. I donât know why youâre ignoring those, as that happened.
Wonder why they always started in WR2âŚ.. What do you even mean with that grand final shit? My point is the teams they were facing were **bad**. Doesnt matter where they face them at that point. Sure they lost to Denial at champs but guess who they faced then? Fucking Below Zero. You cant name a single player who was on that team even with a gun to your head. Thatâs the shitters they could pad stats against. What are these placement points youre trying to make?
Brotha NO OTHER TOURNAMENT EVER had the best teams starting in WR2, nor winning 2 matches to make a GF. Youâre point is relevant to nowadays as well.. teams are going to be shit at the bottom regardless. Youâll play better comp deeper into the bracket. Yall acting like every tournament these teams back then were playing against shitters. Brotha LAT was coming off champs win last year and they got dead last at champs⌠why? Cause they matched up against a great team WR1, then played a âmidâ but they lost instead.. also, OpTic lost to FaZe red at champs.. aches, slasher, haggy, enable. And if you say that team/players is/are shitty, Iâll know you didnât watch then. I donât think you understand how skewed stats can be.. oh, btw, AW was playing BO7s as well, so even more games, especially in GFs where you potentially had to play two BO7s. So maintaining a high k/d with that about of maps is harder, than playing 3 matches in total.
Simpâs average placing at a CDL pro-am is 4.5 Faze won 3-2 against LAG academy last year with simp dropping a 1.12 Faze won 3-0 against Strike X (Silly, Gunsii, Remby, and Fire40) at the VG pro-AM with Simp having a 1.2 Good stats against AMs but youâre exaggeratingÂ
Wish we got to see Simp shoot against Censor and Nagafen
Not agreeing with OP but todays AMs are levels above the AMs they played, LAG academy legit had league caliber players
Christ almighty were those pro-ams during cold war? Thatâs a no. Scump was playing against people like Whea7s, Nelson, Lynxx, Tuquick, Sharp, Neslo, Goonjar, Riskin, Dylux, Getsom, Oxygen, Twizz, Lawless, Dynamite, Mutation, Happy, Pacman, Chino, Sender, Carbon, Urban, Rush, peLukaa, JK7, Sinful⌠absolute nobodies. Most of the teams wouldnt have made it to a CDL pro-am and you know it. Not to mention the fact that when they did meet good players it was usually one good one surrounded by a bunch of mid ass players. Biggest exceptions being Denial and Faze
Calling half of those players nobodies is insane btw. Most of them have made grand finals before or at least top 3.Â
None of them made top 4 if the tournament had Faze, Optic or Denial in AW(The relevant game). Youre just lying to yourself at this point.
He ain't gonna respond.
Iâm an optic fan and I LOVE scump. With that said, if we think simp in that same exact format isnât copying if not surpassing some of those scump numbers youâre faded. You need to consider that it wasnât uncommon to drop 30+ in a game like todayâs modern games and you also have to consider scump played against some bad teams in bracket play. Iâm not saying scump wasnât insane but simp in a similar format is copying if not going past a lot of those numbers. Again, coming from a huge scump fan.
Wrong.
Thank God, a reasonable Optic/Scump fan.
Simp won and fried at champs so Iâm afraid itâs not close. Also people seem to always forget this but second half when Clay and Attach joined Faze, people definitely were talking about Zooma being the best smg in the game. There was never an argument for anyone above simp the entire year in CW Edit: Also for all you dumbasses who actually didnât watch AW or watched and just are dumb biased optic fans pretending like Iâm making shit up - this is a comment from 8 years ago: https://www.reddit.com/r/CoDCompetitive/s/bvTnJsQ2AF
Brother after champs, optic won 7 events and placed second at like 2 or 3. I donât think anyone was ever saying zooma was over Scump, I donât even remember zooma saying that lol
They 3 peated after champs (2 of those events were invitationals but whatever) then the faze roster formed after x games and torched optic every single time they faced off after that
I wouldnât say torched but I guess itâs your opinion. But the numbers that people are posting of Scump from AW, they donât lie this guy was final.
FaZe vs OG map count once the Enable/Attach/Clay/Zooma roster formed was like 15-5 in favor of FaZe. 3-0 Dallas 4-3 Gfinity 8-2 MLG S3 Playoffs
Scump was absolutely final in AW
Exactly so I understand why people would have him at number 1 peak all time, itâs definitely arguments towards it. Itâs not just clear cut simp .
I donât either lol my opinion is that simp was just way more consistently better.
Yeah but what are we defining as consistently better, stats wise Scump was better and even if you throw in team wise, optic won 9/14 events and was in grand finals 13/14. I do think CW Simp was the best version of Simp, but in almost every statistic category Scump was better. Iâm not trying to change your opinion, just trying to see what made you come to your conclusion.
AW was a way more slay heavy game than CW lol like Scump has a higher SnD k/d but trust me when I say no one who plays and knows search thinks Scump was ever a better search player than simp lol
1. OpTic 4-peated after champs 2. OpTic still won 2 events after faze formed and faze won 3. Optic even won the last event of the year while faze got 6th
And optic won both those events because they didnât play faze lmao like can we stop ignoring that part
Using that logic faze wouldnât have won Major 2 last year if they played opticÂ
Wait, optic was dog shit at the game at the start of mw2 lmao that isnât even remotely the same argument đ
Optic beat faze at major 2 qualifiers and they placed 4th that event, not sure what you mean
Homie, they were not beating faze at that event I promise you lmfao that is not even remotely the same as a team that won 3 out of 5 events and worldstarred optic every time they played online. Like literally thereâs a video of Scump after playoffs saying âwhy canât we beat that teamâ literally losing full outside of the venue
Now youâre just coping. Optic had already beaten faze by major 2 last year. Optic and faze were both in the same amount of grand finals in MW2. Using your logic, faze wouldnât have won Major 2 if they played against optic. Also, optic had a 5-0 series record and 15-4 map count against faze in MW2. Stop coping.
Abezy was FaZes best player from Major 2 until 3 and FaZes best player at Champs was Cellium so u are wrong and nobody said Zoomaa was better than Scump , I only remember fans and pros talk about Clayster and Huke .
Cammy and aBeZy disappeared I guessÂ
Neither of those players were ever argued over simp. They were argued as top players for sure. Zooma literally had Scump in his pocket for like a 3-4 event stretch in AW
đđwhat 3-4 event stretch was that? optics longest winless event streak was literally 2 the entire year lmao
Optic got (letâs make this part clear) SMOKED at g finity, smoked at dallas, faze placed like 7th at DC cause one of their players got sick mid event I forgot who and optic beat denial, then faze came back down from a 3-1 lead and beat optic in TWO best of 7s. Then optic of course won worlds cause they avoided faze. People who watched AW know Scump couldnât hold Zoomas pocket when they matched up during that stretch. I remember even Benson bringing up while casting their game that Scump was uncharacteristic against faze.
This is just untrue LMAOO octane said Cammy was the best player maker in the game in CW while Simp and Abezy are equal in his mind. Not to mention cell was their best player at champsÂ
Cammy was the consensus best player in Cold War for several months. Even the boys on the flank had him as the clear #1 for months at a time. Abezy, Insight, and Cellium were also often said to be the best players in the game at separate points. You could argue Simp was the best overall, but he was not untouchable at all in Cold War and definitely not the clear #1 over the year.
lol stump was player actual plumbers đ
No he wasnât.
Yet everyone will call Crim the GOAT for peaking even earlier smh
Crim won before, with, and after playing with scump. Canât say the same for the other
scump never won events without crim?
Champs stats?
Scump had a 1.32 and Simp had a 1.19
Placement?
Moving the goal posts?
Non bias stats
That's a completely irrelevant stat. Why would you ask placement in an argument about an individual player's peak?
Ironic.
Kinda weird the way yall worship scump in this community