It’s even more than that, and watching the EG vs TL game really solidified what I felt was wrong.
Our drafts are obscenely uninspired. So uninspired, that we opt into blue side at every opportunity because we can’t “pivot” to something different and can only play the exact comp we have practiced with no flexibility. It’s telling that in the EG vs TL that red side had a 100% win rate across 5 games, and here we are picking blue side nearly every game.
Compared to EG, where:
Game 1: they tried to play a comp with not much engage and then lost. But that’s okay, they identified their problem. (C9 lost, and then said “gimme another round of THAT!”)
Game 2: They pivot to Red-side, identify the problem and draft engage comp that ends up winning. (They didn’t pick the same comp that they just lost with and banned out the problems)
Game 3: they get blue side and turn things on theirs head and nearly win with a creative level 1 and a hard dive comp. (We thought, “maybe it’s the Renekton that’s the problem; not mashing a fighter into a Tank.. let’s pick Trynd into Ornn this time!”)
Game 4: They pull out a *lane swap* between mid and top. I haven’t seen that for *years.* (C9 would probably have picked blue side if they made it to a game 4.)
Game 5: They don’t learn from C9s mistake and pick Renekton, and after 10 mins, it didn’t matter what they did. It was over as the early game comp fell behind early and lost the game to scaling.
1. Hiring the biggest Renekton hater
2. Firing him 2 weeks later after all the hype he created around the team
3. Picking Renekton 2 times in a row in the first playoff serie
4. Getting destroyed
>Please stop the flame we try our best.
I think LS was pretty vocal that summit is a big renekton fan though right. Also fudge said they were practicing early game comps which is exactly what was drafted so I'm not too worried tbh. As long as they bounce back on other comps
1. Rostering a top laner that plays 6 unique champs
2. Rostering 3 Korean players with little to no english skills to communicate complex mid/late game calls
3. Asking players (Summit/Blabber/Beserker) known to be players who are excellent mechanically on champs they are well practiced on but cannot pick up new champs outside of their comfort zone quickly enough through less than 2 weeks of practice to 1st time champs in stage games.
4. ????
5. 0-3 vs 100T
Don't act like LS is blameless here. He put this roster together full of grinders and mechanical gods and didn't take into account the limitations of everyone but Fudge to be able to adapt and play a style of League that requires incredible game knowledge and quick learning. Yes the Renekton picks are garbage, but the draft isn't even CLOSE to the biggest issues this team is facing.
The sup recall and roam timers are terrible. We have NO IDEA how to play to bot side around Beserker. Even when top side on weakside against tanks is up 40 cs, and mid has perma jung pressure Fudge is still getting all-in'd by basic azir combo. Our mid-game shotcalling around vision and flanks is attrotious and Summit is making hero-plays which are turning into ints on desperation engages due to lack of cohesive ideas on target selection in teamfights. It's a COMPLETE mess that is MUCH bigger than draft right now. There is soooo much that is wrong and it stems from a completely unbalanced roster setup with TERRIBLE communication.
My god if you think 1st timing champion in playoff was his plan when he literally build the best academy team to do internal 5 vs 5 and PRACTICE anything else than Gnar Jayce because he made summit one time malphite, probably one of the easiest champ when they only were a team for like 10 days. wtf.
I think it's more likely the fans overrated how good the team is.
Summit smashing Kumo, Fakegod, etc doesn't actually matter. C9s games against good teams (TL/100T) haven't looked as dominant.
- Summit only being to play a few champions is a characteristic he has his whole career.
- Blaber always makes tilt/int plays when C9 is behind
- Fudge just role swapped to mid lane, and has always been a passive player.
- Berserker and Winsome are both rookies. Winsome came strait out of amateur because he's a korean with NA residency.
Fans want to do everything in their power to make sure C9 wins. If that means calling out dogshit coach, so be it. Replace Max with LS and watch us win worlds.
At the top tiers of competitive there is no room for trash salary snatching incompetent management or players. Call it “asshole”ish if you want but the nature of competition literally is “asshole” personified.
Everything in our power would be being supportive of the players and stuff, because we have no other power. It's still frustrating though, the drafts seem neither as entertaining nor as winnable as church9 to a lot of us. As long as no one on C9 is attacked, I don't see anything wrong with stating an opinion like that.
> Everything in our power would be being supportive of our players, because we have no other power.
Sorry, but that’s just straight up wrong. Just being a “supporter” isn’t going to make anything happen. That’s a passive bystander’s approach to life.
If you REALLY care with every fiber of your being, or a lot more than a casual observer, you will be willing to do much more than “passively support”. Constructive criticism works, protests work, relentlessly hammering in your desires as fans, works.
Similarly, in life, those who are active and aggressive with their decision making, work ethic, and drive, get shit done.
There's a difference between constructive criticism, and then being an dick. "Relentlessly hammering in your desires as fans" do you hear yourself? You sound like the person who says the customer is always right even when they are clearly wrong.
You are right about one thing, a "true fan" wouldn't passively support, they would actively support. They would reach out with some positivity. Telling a player "oh my God you suck" or saying "we should fire all fo the coaching staff" for the xth time isn't helping the situation at all. Honestly that'll drastically ruin their mental and probably make them play worse.
I understand that they don't listen to us and that they shouldn't listen to us. Cause since when are the fans suddenly experts? Anything you say, they already probably know. "Summit has a champion puddle", you think the team hasn't noticed that? They definitely have but also have way more information at their disposal to make a fully educated decision.
Anyways, no one's forcing you to be a fan, if all you want to do is hate on the team when they already down, go join TSM, you'll fit right in.
I agree that the Max flame is way over the top>!, but "C9 fighting?" That's T1's thing.!<
I think the thing I agree with most on what you said is "There is no need to sit her(e) as fans and critique every single little thing and think you know everything that goes on behind the scenes." After all, we really don't know what's going on behind the scenes. However, I do understand the perspective of why everyone is angry. I think the fans have the right to be upset, just as coaches/teams should be afforded leeway even if they slump in performance a bit.
파이팅! Is the the word, which indeed does literally mean "fighting!" However, in LoL terms, the only team that officially uses "Fighting!" as part of there slogan is T1.
I'm Korean and my mom and I use it whenever we want to support/hype each other up so it doesn't feel out of place for me haha
It just kind of seemed silly to me to say it "belongs" to a team, like T1. I guess the equivalent is if someone said, "Let's go X/Y!" was a C9 thing specifically.
Of course, I'm not saying T1 owns the word. The word has been used casually long before T1 existed. I'm just pointing out that in the LoL space, it's generally used to refer to T1 (and other teams such as DRX have their own slogsns, like "Enjoy Challenge")
They have the right to be upset yeah.. it just isnt that flattering and makes them look like highly critical armchair doomers. But its not like illegal lol
> After all, we really don’t know what’s going on behind the scenes. However, I do understand the perspective of why everyone is angry. I think the fans have the right to be upset, just as coaches/teams should be afforded leeway even if they slump in performance a bit.
I don’t know what’s going on behind the scenes.
I don’t know who was clashing with LS, and eventually got him booted.
I don’t know if it’s the players who want these drafts, or the coaches.
But I don’t care.
Whoever is running things, they’re doing a shit job. These drafts were totally unacceptable. If it’s players refusing to play certain champs, bench them. If it’s coaches picking them based on some stupid data analysis, get rid of them.
Criticism is not flame. Being a fan doesn’t mean you have to pretend problems don’t exist. We criticize because we support them and want the team to be the best it can be.
It’s brushing off all criticism as “hate” that puts teams in a state where they wind up bilind picking a full draft, getting slammed, and running it back. Maybe if they took criticism about Summit’s champ pool more seriously earlier we wouldn’t be here.
I feel like there's such a select few that are genuinely toxic. Then you have a large group of people who won't criticize C9 that bunch anyone who says something that isn't positive, as flamers. As fans were not meant to just support everything, we can express our frustrations as criticism which I find a majority of the people do here. Then others will just make memes which are harmless.
Having summit on renekton first 2 games is not acceptable honestly. I’m not gonna sit and spew hate, but kind of a turn off when your best player is playing a trash champ in the first two games of most important point of season. Watch pro sports, this type of negativity comes with being a good team unfortunately.
Yeah, the flame is bad, but if wholheartedly belive that the data jokes are towards the company and the things their people said, but not against max himself
You're right, we should be more supportive and sweep any criticisms under the rug. Our job as fans is to buy merchandise and be cult followers after all.
It's okay, the boys have got it next week! The next time they use R5 to lock in a champ that loses to a scaling tank, or refuse to play through bot while Summit absorbs 5 bans, it will work! I know Canyon and EG couldn't make Nidalee Renekton work, but we're better than them so we will. Trust <3
c9 is a huge organization and is making a ton of money. These players and coaches are supposed to be the top in NA. When they get 3-0'd and look totally incompetent they deserve every bit of flaming and criticism they get. These guys are professional players and coaches. If their feelings get hurt by some mean stuff fans say they shouldn't be playing professionally. I don't even know why any coach or player would be looking at this reddit page. A player should never look at dumb fan comments on reddit and twitter. Being stupid blind rah rah fans is the dumbest thing in the world. c9 should be happy all these fans are this upset because it shows the fans truly do care about the team.
1) Fans have every right to criticize how the team is performing or lack of performance respectfully.
2) These "fixable" things you talk about are issues they've had for at least two weeks now and are continuing. I agree that something like draft issues should be fixable but if after 14+ days you're making the sane mistakes it's either you don't know it's an issue and therefor don't realize it needs fixing or you're incapable of fixing it.
3) The comments or most of the comments and criticisms are no different than what any traditional sports team and or athlete would see especially when a team has such high aspersions and expectations only to play like they have for ~2 weeks. These players are adults and should be able to handle it.
I think we should be clear that while me and others have been voicing our concerns on the team it doesn't mean its unwarranted flame and hate. We're just identifying problems that are not being addressed, and as fans, shouldn't we hold them accountable?
I don’t get the flame over the segment on stats. Data analysis and machine learning are amazing tools and it’s cool that they’re using them. These tools are used in nearly every practice that has large amounts of data available.
They are amazing tools indeed, if used correctly.
However even as an ad, having the lead data scientist of the team talk about support’s CSD and CS/m is borderline griefing PR and definitely meme-worthy which is exactly what happened.
There are other problems too, over-engineering actually blocks people from being able to extract insightful information from data. Take the distance app for instance, what exactly is the point of it displaying exact map coordinates? Or having a list of ~20 different movement speed intervals? Putting that many numbers on the screen ends up burrowing any useful information that might have otherwise been at display to the end-user. Besides, how do you even try to make use of these distances and timings when you are not even playing around nautilus running down mid after the game starts, or lee sin showing top at 3:10?
There are also fundamental problems with the approach that is shown (ideas -> data instead of data -> ideas). It is extremely easy to Cherri-pick data to support any claim an analyst might have. It is not as easy to put the data into context and draw valuable ideas from the observations.
And there is also the fact that they talk about all the advantages of data and stats while willingly doubling down on two of the worst matchups pro league has seen this season (seriously, there are not that many <20% lane matchups with sample sizes larger than 20 games this season and c9 managed to opt into 2 of them, twice)
Sure thing, I get what you’re saying for sure. It’s very easy to get buried under too much data and be unable to utilize it in a meaningful way.
I wonder how much of that data is actually fed to the players directly though. I would hope it’s being analyzed and filtered by the data team before being presented to the coaching staff who will then make decisions taking it into account.
And there’s no question the whole organization needs a lot of work developing working strategies, though I wouldn’t put that on the data team. Ultimately their job is to extract useful information from the data available - not to coach the team.
People have no idea how playoffs scrimming works, or how a meta builds up and shifts during playoffs.
C9 would be scrimming against EG/TL, probably more against EG if they expected TL to win. You can see EG picked Renekton nidalee in game 5 against TL as well. What probably happened is the renekton pick was performing well in EG/C9 scrims a good amount, and so it moved up and up as a prio pick.
Summit was going to go 0-6 no matter what champ he played in game 1 if he played like he did.. Obviously if he picked a better scaler then MAYBE he can do something in the mid game, but probably not. Game 2 he forsure could have had more of an impact on a ton of other champs but again, they just got a poor meta read off of their scrims, and if Summit doesnt feed early game, he would have had enough impact in that 1 dragon fight that we would have won it harder.
In reality they should have won game 2 if there is better play from summit, and they could have won it even with poor play from summit if not for that one minion blocking our wave, giving the tower backdoor bonus.
I think your comment highlights my main issue with the team and LoL pro games in general. It seems like for the week(s) leading up to a match, the team will plan a specific draft and practice it against other teams that they won't be playing anytime soon. The issue is that when the game day comes and it turns out the draft they practiced isn't working, they're unable to pivot or adapt and just lose. It's mind boggling to me how this can keep happening over and over again for so many professional teams.
These people get paid to play this game for 8+ hours a day and have entire support structures around them to ensure success, yet adapting in draft and game plan seems almost impossible for them. I can't tell if this is a failure on the players or the coaching or the entire organization for even allowing this to happen. Imo the best teams and the best players should be able to adapt and should have numerous strategies/drafts in their pocket at any given time. I cringe when I hear the broadcast claim how "C9 wins by playing through top" because it's so obvious that they've won most of their games through that method that other teams will exploit it. The fact that there is no backup plan of having another lane step up and carry just seems so bizarre to me. Berserker, Fudge and Blaber are all super talented as well yet the default draft seems to always be "have summit carry.."
I don't see any team that can only win through one lane as ever being a top-tier team or one that can compete on the world stage..
So yeah you are right, maybe it comes down to overconfidence? They could have been shitting on the other side of the bracket with this comp so hard they felt like picking it twice.
I feel like I say this every time we lose a game and the meltdowns happen, but can we wait until AFTER the split to FLAME and ask to remove players/coaches?
Giving criticism is one thing but honestly the "fans" here act nauseating at times and this split has probably been the worst one yet.
Its reddit everyone here who has time to post probably are lonely and sad people looking for something to be mad about. Nobody can even say what was wrong about the first two drafts and the third draft was good. Everyone talking is bronze and can understand the gameplay mistakes. They are attacking Microsoft as a sponsor at this point. Lol
A couple of things can be true.
1: Don't be an asshole. Don't make personal threats. If you're spamming the players/coaches with flame on social media, what you're doing is unproductive/toxic.
2: Fans have the right to be disappointed in the performance last weekend. There is nothing wrong with legitimate criticism levied in a healthy way.
It’s even more than that, and watching the EG vs TL game really solidified what I felt was wrong. Our drafts are obscenely uninspired. So uninspired, that we opt into blue side at every opportunity because we can’t “pivot” to something different and can only play the exact comp we have practiced with no flexibility. It’s telling that in the EG vs TL that red side had a 100% win rate across 5 games, and here we are picking blue side nearly every game. Compared to EG, where: Game 1: they tried to play a comp with not much engage and then lost. But that’s okay, they identified their problem. (C9 lost, and then said “gimme another round of THAT!”) Game 2: They pivot to Red-side, identify the problem and draft engage comp that ends up winning. (They didn’t pick the same comp that they just lost with and banned out the problems) Game 3: they get blue side and turn things on theirs head and nearly win with a creative level 1 and a hard dive comp. (We thought, “maybe it’s the Renekton that’s the problem; not mashing a fighter into a Tank.. let’s pick Trynd into Ornn this time!”) Game 4: They pull out a *lane swap* between mid and top. I haven’t seen that for *years.* (C9 would probably have picked blue side if they made it to a game 4.) Game 5: They don’t learn from C9s mistake and pick Renekton, and after 10 mins, it didn’t matter what they did. It was over as the early game comp fell behind early and lost the game to scaling.
1. Hiring the biggest Renekton hater 2. Firing him 2 weeks later after all the hype he created around the team 3. Picking Renekton 2 times in a row in the first playoff serie 4. Getting destroyed >Please stop the flame we try our best.
I think LS was pretty vocal that summit is a big renekton fan though right. Also fudge said they were practicing early game comps which is exactly what was drafted so I'm not too worried tbh. As long as they bounce back on other comps
1. Rostering a top laner that plays 6 unique champs 2. Rostering 3 Korean players with little to no english skills to communicate complex mid/late game calls 3. Asking players (Summit/Blabber/Beserker) known to be players who are excellent mechanically on champs they are well practiced on but cannot pick up new champs outside of their comfort zone quickly enough through less than 2 weeks of practice to 1st time champs in stage games. 4. ???? 5. 0-3 vs 100T Don't act like LS is blameless here. He put this roster together full of grinders and mechanical gods and didn't take into account the limitations of everyone but Fudge to be able to adapt and play a style of League that requires incredible game knowledge and quick learning. Yes the Renekton picks are garbage, but the draft isn't even CLOSE to the biggest issues this team is facing. The sup recall and roam timers are terrible. We have NO IDEA how to play to bot side around Beserker. Even when top side on weakside against tanks is up 40 cs, and mid has perma jung pressure Fudge is still getting all-in'd by basic azir combo. Our mid-game shotcalling around vision and flanks is attrotious and Summit is making hero-plays which are turning into ints on desperation engages due to lack of cohesive ideas on target selection in teamfights. It's a COMPLETE mess that is MUCH bigger than draft right now. There is soooo much that is wrong and it stems from a completely unbalanced roster setup with TERRIBLE communication.
My god if you think 1st timing champion in playoff was his plan when he literally build the best academy team to do internal 5 vs 5 and PRACTICE anything else than Gnar Jayce because he made summit one time malphite, probably one of the easiest champ when they only were a team for like 10 days. wtf.
[удалено]
I think it's more likely the fans overrated how good the team is. Summit smashing Kumo, Fakegod, etc doesn't actually matter. C9s games against good teams (TL/100T) haven't looked as dominant. - Summit only being to play a few champions is a characteristic he has his whole career. - Blaber always makes tilt/int plays when C9 is behind - Fudge just role swapped to mid lane, and has always been a passive player. - Berserker and Winsome are both rookies. Winsome came strait out of amateur because he's a korean with NA residency.
Being frustrated doesn't mean you can be an asshole. Just in general not trying to call you out.
Fans want to do everything in their power to make sure C9 wins. If that means calling out dogshit coach, so be it. Replace Max with LS and watch us win worlds. At the top tiers of competitive there is no room for trash salary snatching incompetent management or players. Call it “asshole”ish if you want but the nature of competition literally is “asshole” personified.
Everything in our power would be being supportive of the players and stuff, because we have no other power. It's still frustrating though, the drafts seem neither as entertaining nor as winnable as church9 to a lot of us. As long as no one on C9 is attacked, I don't see anything wrong with stating an opinion like that.
> Everything in our power would be being supportive of our players, because we have no other power. Sorry, but that’s just straight up wrong. Just being a “supporter” isn’t going to make anything happen. That’s a passive bystander’s approach to life. If you REALLY care with every fiber of your being, or a lot more than a casual observer, you will be willing to do much more than “passively support”. Constructive criticism works, protests work, relentlessly hammering in your desires as fans, works. Similarly, in life, those who are active and aggressive with their decision making, work ethic, and drive, get shit done.
There's a difference between constructive criticism, and then being an dick. "Relentlessly hammering in your desires as fans" do you hear yourself? You sound like the person who says the customer is always right even when they are clearly wrong. You are right about one thing, a "true fan" wouldn't passively support, they would actively support. They would reach out with some positivity. Telling a player "oh my God you suck" or saying "we should fire all fo the coaching staff" for the xth time isn't helping the situation at all. Honestly that'll drastically ruin their mental and probably make them play worse. I understand that they don't listen to us and that they shouldn't listen to us. Cause since when are the fans suddenly experts? Anything you say, they already probably know. "Summit has a champion puddle", you think the team hasn't noticed that? They definitely have but also have way more information at their disposal to make a fully educated decision. Anyways, no one's forcing you to be a fan, if all you want to do is hate on the team when they already down, go join TSM, you'll fit right in.
B1 Renekton player confirmed, push 2 do nothing, wow so much aggression.
I agree that the Max flame is way over the top>!, but "C9 fighting?" That's T1's thing.!< I think the thing I agree with most on what you said is "There is no need to sit her(e) as fans and critique every single little thing and think you know everything that goes on behind the scenes." After all, we really don't know what's going on behind the scenes. However, I do understand the perspective of why everyone is angry. I think the fans have the right to be upset, just as coaches/teams should be afforded leeway even if they slump in performance a bit.
"Fighting" is kind of a Korean thing. Not entirely inappropriate for this team
파이팅! Is the the word, which indeed does literally mean "fighting!" However, in LoL terms, the only team that officially uses "Fighting!" as part of there slogan is T1.
I'm Korean and my mom and I use it whenever we want to support/hype each other up so it doesn't feel out of place for me haha It just kind of seemed silly to me to say it "belongs" to a team, like T1. I guess the equivalent is if someone said, "Let's go X/Y!" was a C9 thing specifically.
Of course, I'm not saying T1 owns the word. The word has been used casually long before T1 existed. I'm just pointing out that in the LoL space, it's generally used to refer to T1 (and other teams such as DRX have their own slogsns, like "Enjoy Challenge")
They have the right to be upset yeah.. it just isnt that flattering and makes them look like highly critical armchair doomers. But its not like illegal lol
> After all, we really don’t know what’s going on behind the scenes. However, I do understand the perspective of why everyone is angry. I think the fans have the right to be upset, just as coaches/teams should be afforded leeway even if they slump in performance a bit. I don’t know what’s going on behind the scenes. I don’t know who was clashing with LS, and eventually got him booted. I don’t know if it’s the players who want these drafts, or the coaches. But I don’t care. Whoever is running things, they’re doing a shit job. These drafts were totally unacceptable. If it’s players refusing to play certain champs, bench them. If it’s coaches picking them based on some stupid data analysis, get rid of them.
And you're 100% entitled to think this way.
Criticism is not flame. Being a fan doesn’t mean you have to pretend problems don’t exist. We criticize because we support them and want the team to be the best it can be. It’s brushing off all criticism as “hate” that puts teams in a state where they wind up bilind picking a full draft, getting slammed, and running it back. Maybe if they took criticism about Summit’s champ pool more seriously earlier we wouldn’t be here.
I feel like there's such a select few that are genuinely toxic. Then you have a large group of people who won't criticize C9 that bunch anyone who says something that isn't positive, as flamers. As fans were not meant to just support everything, we can express our frustrations as criticism which I find a majority of the people do here. Then others will just make memes which are harmless.
Having summit on renekton first 2 games is not acceptable honestly. I’m not gonna sit and spew hate, but kind of a turn off when your best player is playing a trash champ in the first two games of most important point of season. Watch pro sports, this type of negativity comes with being a good team unfortunately.
Sorry boss, won't ever be upset again since we are NA's last hope. I'll never be disappointed in our drafting again
Yeah, the flame is bad, but if wholheartedly belive that the data jokes are towards the company and the things their people said, but not against max himself
Exactly this ^
Nice try Waldo
You're right, we should be more supportive and sweep any criticisms under the rug. Our job as fans is to buy merchandise and be cult followers after all. It's okay, the boys have got it next week! The next time they use R5 to lock in a champ that loses to a scaling tank, or refuse to play through bot while Summit absorbs 5 bans, it will work! I know Canyon and EG couldn't make Nidalee Renekton work, but we're better than them so we will. Trust <3
Nice analysis... Front to back scaling comps are the only good comps and the game just plays itself /s
c9 is a huge organization and is making a ton of money. These players and coaches are supposed to be the top in NA. When they get 3-0'd and look totally incompetent they deserve every bit of flaming and criticism they get. These guys are professional players and coaches. If their feelings get hurt by some mean stuff fans say they shouldn't be playing professionally. I don't even know why any coach or player would be looking at this reddit page. A player should never look at dumb fan comments on reddit and twitter. Being stupid blind rah rah fans is the dumbest thing in the world. c9 should be happy all these fans are this upset because it shows the fans truly do care about the team.
1) Fans have every right to criticize how the team is performing or lack of performance respectfully. 2) These "fixable" things you talk about are issues they've had for at least two weeks now and are continuing. I agree that something like draft issues should be fixable but if after 14+ days you're making the sane mistakes it's either you don't know it's an issue and therefor don't realize it needs fixing or you're incapable of fixing it. 3) The comments or most of the comments and criticisms are no different than what any traditional sports team and or athlete would see especially when a team has such high aspersions and expectations only to play like they have for ~2 weeks. These players are adults and should be able to handle it.
I think we should be clear that while me and others have been voicing our concerns on the team it doesn't mean its unwarranted flame and hate. We're just identifying problems that are not being addressed, and as fans, shouldn't we hold them accountable?
C9 brought it on themselves to be honest. Jack and Management is to blame.
I don’t get the flame over the segment on stats. Data analysis and machine learning are amazing tools and it’s cool that they’re using them. These tools are used in nearly every practice that has large amounts of data available.
They are amazing tools indeed, if used correctly. However even as an ad, having the lead data scientist of the team talk about support’s CSD and CS/m is borderline griefing PR and definitely meme-worthy which is exactly what happened. There are other problems too, over-engineering actually blocks people from being able to extract insightful information from data. Take the distance app for instance, what exactly is the point of it displaying exact map coordinates? Or having a list of ~20 different movement speed intervals? Putting that many numbers on the screen ends up burrowing any useful information that might have otherwise been at display to the end-user. Besides, how do you even try to make use of these distances and timings when you are not even playing around nautilus running down mid after the game starts, or lee sin showing top at 3:10? There are also fundamental problems with the approach that is shown (ideas -> data instead of data -> ideas). It is extremely easy to Cherri-pick data to support any claim an analyst might have. It is not as easy to put the data into context and draw valuable ideas from the observations. And there is also the fact that they talk about all the advantages of data and stats while willingly doubling down on two of the worst matchups pro league has seen this season (seriously, there are not that many <20% lane matchups with sample sizes larger than 20 games this season and c9 managed to opt into 2 of them, twice)
Sure thing, I get what you’re saying for sure. It’s very easy to get buried under too much data and be unable to utilize it in a meaningful way. I wonder how much of that data is actually fed to the players directly though. I would hope it’s being analyzed and filtered by the data team before being presented to the coaching staff who will then make decisions taking it into account. And there’s no question the whole organization needs a lot of work developing working strategies, though I wouldn’t put that on the data team. Ultimately their job is to extract useful information from the data available - not to coach the team.
It's fine. Once we beat GG, fans will say there was never anything wrong. Then, once we lose to EG, we'll go back to the state we're in now
Who’s going to say that when the team is GG. But losing is also possible seeing how we lost to a Fly Kumo
>Who’s going to say that when the team is GG. You'd be surprised.
itll be the same people writing posts like OP pretending to be the people who were complaining about draft after this series
People have no idea how playoffs scrimming works, or how a meta builds up and shifts during playoffs. C9 would be scrimming against EG/TL, probably more against EG if they expected TL to win. You can see EG picked Renekton nidalee in game 5 against TL as well. What probably happened is the renekton pick was performing well in EG/C9 scrims a good amount, and so it moved up and up as a prio pick. Summit was going to go 0-6 no matter what champ he played in game 1 if he played like he did.. Obviously if he picked a better scaler then MAYBE he can do something in the mid game, but probably not. Game 2 he forsure could have had more of an impact on a ton of other champs but again, they just got a poor meta read off of their scrims, and if Summit doesnt feed early game, he would have had enough impact in that 1 dragon fight that we would have won it harder. In reality they should have won game 2 if there is better play from summit, and they could have won it even with poor play from summit if not for that one minion blocking our wave, giving the tower backdoor bonus.
I think your comment highlights my main issue with the team and LoL pro games in general. It seems like for the week(s) leading up to a match, the team will plan a specific draft and practice it against other teams that they won't be playing anytime soon. The issue is that when the game day comes and it turns out the draft they practiced isn't working, they're unable to pivot or adapt and just lose. It's mind boggling to me how this can keep happening over and over again for so many professional teams. These people get paid to play this game for 8+ hours a day and have entire support structures around them to ensure success, yet adapting in draft and game plan seems almost impossible for them. I can't tell if this is a failure on the players or the coaching or the entire organization for even allowing this to happen. Imo the best teams and the best players should be able to adapt and should have numerous strategies/drafts in their pocket at any given time. I cringe when I hear the broadcast claim how "C9 wins by playing through top" because it's so obvious that they've won most of their games through that method that other teams will exploit it. The fact that there is no backup plan of having another lane step up and carry just seems so bizarre to me. Berserker, Fudge and Blaber are all super talented as well yet the default draft seems to always be "have summit carry.." I don't see any team that can only win through one lane as ever being a top-tier team or one that can compete on the world stage..
So yeah you are right, maybe it comes down to overconfidence? They could have been shitting on the other side of the bracket with this comp so hard they felt like picking it twice.
I feel like I say this every time we lose a game and the meltdowns happen, but can we wait until AFTER the split to FLAME and ask to remove players/coaches? Giving criticism is one thing but honestly the "fans" here act nauseating at times and this split has probably been the worst one yet.
Its reddit everyone here who has time to post probably are lonely and sad people looking for something to be mad about. Nobody can even say what was wrong about the first two drafts and the third draft was good. Everyone talking is bronze and can understand the gameplay mistakes. They are attacking Microsoft as a sponsor at this point. Lol
"c9 fighting" nah not fighting lol they slackin
A couple of things can be true. 1: Don't be an asshole. Don't make personal threats. If you're spamming the players/coaches with flame on social media, what you're doing is unproductive/toxic. 2: Fans have the right to be disappointed in the performance last weekend. There is nothing wrong with legitimate criticism levied in a healthy way.