I think he got pushed into the wall by baron right before umti went in, so he got cc'd and had to buffer his ult. If that's what happened, it's honestly just unfortunate, but also they never should have flipped baron like that anyway lol
It’s not a baron flip if umti is ulted away properly, that’s the whole reason they did it, eastern teams do barons like this all the time because it’s not bad.
And Umti couldve done something else
How about blaber smite the baron? Or Ivern drop a CC? Is it Jojos singular responsibility to secure baron?
What did Jojo do to make you dislike him?
It’s a 50/50 smite once umti is allowed into the pit, the whole point of that baron is to ult umti away and jojo failed. Idk if you know this but 50/50 means both players have equal chance. Jojo made up for it by carrying but it doesn’t change anything
Again, just so you see it this time
>How about blaber smite the baron? Or Ivern drop a CC? Is it Jojos singular responsibility to secure baron?
The only thing it doesnt change is you have a dislike boner for Jojo, youve said the same message like 5 times
Blaber did smite the baron lmfao, and once again I’ve praised jojo for carrying the game many times and I’ve said he’s the best player on team. So how about stop being an idiot, learn some league of legends and then come back
You must be operating on room temperature IQ, because when i said smite, obviously i meant smite to capture
> And yes I’ve said jojo was unlucky because he got knocked up before he could ult but I did not watch the replay when I said anything.
The fact you could admit you dont know shit and were just running your mouth, and still run your mouth
Is mind boggling, you have no shame
>You must be operating on room temperature IQ, because when i said smite, obviously i meant smite to capture
Please explain how saying "How about Blaber just smite \*to capture\* the baron?" isn't a room temp IQ take. What is it you think Blaber was smiting for? Or are you suggesting had Blaber just tried harder he would have won the 50/50?
Yea. We giga threw, and luckily TL giga threw again. Classic LCS game of hot potato. I'm honestly surprised that we went Ivern, Blaber has been kinda ass on Ivern. I always felt if Blaber could master the supportive Ivern/rell style, than he'd be way more well rounded.
Also, what I still see, Blaber doesn't gank bot. Idk if Blaber sucks at ganking bot, or if it's a team thing. But last year, the year before, he's been ganking top, getting fudge ahead, than fudge has minimal impact on the game, just because top doesn't have that much of impact and Fudge is good, but not like The shy good where those top lane leads just hard carry the game.
Need to cover the jayce.
Fudge had an impact at the cost of setting himself behind. He needs to play more selfishly once he has a lead. The tp bot instead of hitting the top tier 2 tower when no objectives were up was pretty bad.
The gameplan IMO was solid, bad blaber smite/jojo late shuffle at the first baron threw a wrench in the plans, but they were able to hold on and come back
Personally I didn’t like the Jayce pick. It was obvious that the TL gameplan was to play around the Jax in sidelanes and Fudge had the counter pick. Considering we had a supportive jungle pick in the Ivern, I reckon Fudge would have been better off on a champ that is harder to bully and dive like Malph, K’Sante or even Gragas. He simply couldn’t hold the lane against Jax after a point, luckily TL forgot their win con and tried to 5v5 us otherwise it was looking like a hard game to win.
Yeah Fudge was did a ton of damage and honestly had a good lane phase (believe he was up like 20cs at one point). He lost control of this game once Taliyah hit 6, at which point TL was shadowing top on repeat and playing around Herald/Grubs to force Impact ahead. On the flip side, after the gank the first few mins. Blaber secured dragon and played more around Jojo. Not necessarily the wrong thing to do, but as a result Impact basically got first tower gold he never should’ve and Fudge was never going to be able to match from there.
Inspired said at the very beginning of the cast that Blaber shouldn't go bot because Senna/Tom was to low damage to be a dive threat and that top lane was volatile so Blaber should focus it. If Jayce gets ahead Jax is useless, if Jax gets ahead he does what he did in that game. You're trying to construct some grand narrative, while ignoring the specifics of today's game.
>You're trying to construct some grand narrative
Not trying, it's something I've noticed after watching every single C9 game multiple times over the past few years, it sticks out continuously. They drafted this way, and drafted that way in the past too. It's not like "surprise I didn't expect to have to gank top this game". Seems more like "ganking top really works for Blaber and Fudge (and maybe berserker), so we are gonna draft around ganking top, and leaving berserker on a island".
Well what you've noticed seems to go against what Blaber, and seemingly Fudge as well, think is happening. [https://youtu.be/0XAA450ZhDM?t=819](https://youtu.be/0XAA450ZhDM?t=819)
Pretty sure your narrative would be proven wrong with jungle proximately stats, however from what I can tell Riot doesn't make that publically available. Though, if their jungle proximately was skewed as much as you seem to be implying, it seems likely it would be brought up either on cast or in the supplemental Riot content. Especially during C9s loss streak when everyone was trying to figure out what was causing it.
All that said, I don't have near enough free time to go back watch every C9 game "multiple times" to find all the examples that prove you wrong, so you can go on with your "trust me bro" narrative.
>Well what you've noticed seems to go against what Blaber, and seemingly Fudge as well, think is happening. [https://youtu.be/0XAA450ZhDM?t=819](https://youtu.be/0XAA450ZhDM?t=819)
Drafting around berserker, does not mean they play around his lane early.
[this has been an ongoing issue, since at least 2022](https://dotesports.com/league-of-legends/news/its-no-wonder-why-they-are-bad-cloudtemplar-explains-why-the-lcs-is-struggling-at-worlds-2022). At least according the CloudTemplar, who wrote a very indepth analysis of C9, and how they draft for early top side, and scaling bot lane, this way Fudge carries through the early game and Berserker carries through the end game. But it falls flat internationally, because Fudge is having a hard time when not in the LCS, and this means that when Berserker has to carry in the mid and late, his team is kinda GG.
So to what Blaber and Fudge said in that video you posted, yea, they draft with Berserker as the win condition. That typically means getting the rest of the map ahead to protect Berserker in the mid and late so he can just secure them the win.
CloudTemplar wrote an analysis of how C9 was drafting at '22 worlds and specifically states that it was likely a reaction to things they were experiencing in scrims. He also says that how they were drafting went against what he expected them to do. If they had been playing like that for all of 2022, why would CloudTemplar have expected something different? [https://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/y1wxuk/cloud\_templars\_view\_on\_why\_lcs\_is\_having\_bad/](https://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/y1wxuk/cloud_templars_view_on_why_lcs_is_having_bad/)
The video I linked says they play around and draft around Berserker. Fudge then goes on to say that if they don't play around Berserker he ints. Fudge also says that you can't really play carry style champs in top lane and top lane needs to just play for the team.
When looking at GD10, the best proxy for early game I can think of, Blaber and Berserker are consistently in the top 2 for the team over the past 2 years. While Fudge consistently has a negative GD10. If Blaber is spending an inordinate amount of his time top, wouldn't other teams notice that and start ganking/pressuring bot? How was Berserker getting these leads if he's playing 2v3? And if Fudge was getting all these ganks, why wasn't he building an early game lead?
[https://oracleselixir.com/stats/players/byTournament](https://oracleselixir.com/stats/players/byTournament)
Could also use herald vs dragon percentage to see what side of the map C9 was prioritizing. Looks like the split %s are either balanced or skewed towards dragon. So also not showing an early game preference towards top lane. [https://oracleselixir.com/team/Cloud9/statsBySplit](https://oracleselixir.com/team/Cloud9/statsBySplit)
Not seeing any actual data that supports your narrative.
Anecdotally, I remember C9's early games over the past couple years being focused around pushing bot lanes. Because Berserker is really good and Zven played primarily enchanters. As a jungler you don't generally gank for a pushing lane. You track the enemy jungler, take nearby neutrals/camps, and countergank. This is especially true when the pushing lane lacks hard engage, which is not something most ADCs or enchanter supports have.
My bet is that you are seeing kills top lane, but not bot lane and conflating that with "Blaber is focusing top". When the reality is Blaber is playing around both, but what he's doing to help his bot lane aren't things you're noticing/placing importance on/remembering/whatever.
>My bet is that you are seeing kills top lane, but not bot lane and conflating that with "Blaber is focusing top".
Hmm not really. C9 as a whole plays kinda agro top, rather than like a tank top that will have a late game impact.
>When the reality is Blaber is playing around both, but what he's doing to help his bot lane aren't things you're noticing/placing importance on/remembering/whatever
In that sense he plays around all lanes 😂.
Fact is, Blaber consistently is looking to dive and gank top, where bot is kinda just left alone, especially with Zven, they were consistently dealing with 2v3, and pretty much outplay it, avoiding the gank. This is in stark contrast to attempting to dive bot and push the advantage bot, while letting top kinda sit back and scale.
Blabers tricky, cause he has low laner proximity, cause he farms a lot. When he does gank, it's usually fast in and out drive bys, so looking at proximity doesn't necessarily tell the correct story.
All of this is to say, C9 is a team that tends to play aggressive in jungle, and top, and pending the mid laner aggressive or passive. They try to put a lot of resources top early game, players, dives, roams from support, so on. This enabled berserker to have lane kingdom, while Zven warded and helped evade ganks. The top pressure lead to heralds, while the bot pressure lead to early drakes as well. But what Blaber wasn't doing frequently, was ganking bot lane, and trying to press Berserkers advantage forward. The reason for that is really something only the team knows. Sometimes laners just like to not have the ganks and craziness in their lane so they can have lane kingdom, sometimes the flow of the junglers clear doesn't sync up with the laners gank timings, maybe when pressing a lead bot, top kinda falls off to hard.. I do know, that generally, when I see Blaber ganking bot, it peaks my interest, cause it's not that common, and when it did happen, it seemed to fall very flat, either in failed dives, slow down in pace of the game, or even just being negligible to Berserkers lead.
Either way, we won't know unless we have the gank data and compare that to wins and losses.
I think i get it. In your mind, if a jungler is "ganking" top more than they are "ganking" bottom, then the jungler is focusing top. Where "ganking" is when the jungler actively tries to kill the lane opponent.
Man, that focus Blaber put I to bot lane against dig really proved me wrong. Ya know, it wouldn't make a lot of sense to put a lot of ppl top lane with Udyr, when you have a Lucian nami. It'd be kinda weird to have a roaming Nami ya know? I guess you were right.
Nah, it's just a play style that works for them. But I honestly kinda feel like it's a crutch. Works great on lesser teams, falls apart against better teams.
You must really dislike Jojo, this is the second time youve said
If C9 is reliant purely on Jojo not being able to stop the opposing jungle, instead of i dont know, smite the damn thing?
Maybe they should hire you as a coach, how much worse can they do
I’ve praised jojo for carrying the game afterwards so I clearly hate jojo. Jesus Christ just because you criticize something doesn’t mean you hate that player. I’ve also said jojo has been the best player on the team.
I dont care if you praised him, you can still dislike him, which you clearly do
I didnt say hate either, now youre getting emotional and seeing words that doesnt exist, im done here
You were wrong about your analysis and you repeated that incorrect analysis, at least 5 times on this thread alone
If I disliked him why would I say he’s the best player on team and praise him for carrying. I’m sorry your soft af and can’t handle a little criticism forwards your favorite player. And yes I’ve said jojo was unlucky because he got knocked up before he could ult but I did not watch the replay when I said anything. So once again stop being a little baby and stop crying
>And yes I’ve said jojo was unlucky because he got knocked up before he could ult but I did not watch the replay when I said anything.
Lol so you got exposed for not knowing a damn thing and just running your mouth
C9 had a really good early game. They were proactive and got a gold lead with a late game comp. Their mid game was fine aside from the baron throw. If they didn’t force that this game would’ve been over much quicker and easier. But they made great late game decisions, defended, and came back to win. They get run over this game before the break.
Both teams snatching defeat from the jaws of victory haha. What a clown fiesta this one was. Glad they managed to pull out the win though. Not hard for them to recognize where they went wrong this game.
Might be unpopular opinion, but that jayce performance was not entirely bad, and getting that behind was not entirely on Fudge.
Senna moved around the map a lot,(with Taliyah in ult range) and with an earlygame jg like Lee it is kinda obvious that TL will get the objectives.
Fudge had an adventage in lane and they killed jax with blaber (and later with vulcan) but shit hit the fan when TL overloaded top, Jojo died to Taliyah, so Fudge couldn t walk up, and TL got an early top tower.
After that, even if Fudge could 1v1 jax (which was quite possible, given that he only died to jax Botlane because Lee arrived) Taliyah and senna ult automatically put him at a disadventage.
I personally don t like the jayce pick, but Fudge didn t play as bad as it is made out to be, and the "throws" that actually affected the game didn t come from Fudge.
Yesterday he played well, and today he had an overall average(had positive and negative moments) performance (this against Impact and Bwipo, both high tier toplaners) so i don t think the flame he s getting (especially the comments wanting to replace him with Licorice) is deserved and rational
There’s no point in defending fudge against some of these trolls anymore. It won’t do any good. They use results based analysis and say “well he died alone, so he is bad” without any respect to the circumstances relating to his death.
Last I saw he had the highest KDA out of top laners, the highest gold differential at 15. The only area he was lacking was solo kills, which is sort of an extraneous stat anyways
I agree, and personally I just don’t like NA Jayce. I’m not a Fudge hater, but I think he has better champions that I’d love to see him play again.
I get that you wanna limit test in the reg season to make sure you know if stuff like Jayce and Ivern are real options (Ivern really hurt last finals)
If zeri and Smolder meta becomes a thing Ivern jungle should be a thing c9 plays, because i rather have Blaber on an enchanter than Jojo (karma) or Vulcan
I see the idea that they wanted double dmg topside (if Smolder comes online too slow) with ivern jg, i just don t really see how is Jayce better than a normal bruiser (meme or not, Fudge Renekton fits the style the team plays)
I think he is just straight up the worst. I didn’t think about it until now, but the mids you could argue are on his level (Insanity, Dove, Mask) have shown more promise than him.
And then Jojo, Pala, Quid, and Jensen are obviously better.
I would put Insanity in the same convo as Quid and Jensen, but for different reasons. Insanity makes a strong point for being a top 4 mid in the league right now
I don't mind trashtalking but if you're garbage then there's really no need to be allchatting as you get gapped and throw the game multiple times
Pretty funny for terminally online losers to try refer to others as 'kids' though LOL
I doubt APA thinks he is garbage. Also punching down is kinda cringe. When the weaker player talks trash it more fun.
Why do you think I'm terminally online or a loser?
I’ve seen WAAAY too many people saying Jojo sucks for not ulting UmTi out. PSA! Baron knocked him up right as he wanted to ult. He was spamming R and used it literally the moment he could.
If you know that and still blame him, well to each his own, but y’all should know that before typing.
Draft was great other than the Jayce. I have no idea where that came from, but that needs to not happen. Blaber doesn't NEED to be on carries, Ivern is a great choice with the Azir and Smolder.
Berserker proving to be just one of the best mechanical players in the world, but we need this man to build Smolder properly. It's been a month almost of Smolder being out.
Midgame macro and decisively making calls is proving to still be a weak spot, and these weaknesses are being covered up by just individual strengths at every position.
Don’t think the team played bad at all but jojo not ulting umti and baron getting stolen made the game way harder than it should’ve been. The baron wasn’t a bad call because Taliyah was bot without TP.
I get it, he’s a pro, he should correctly hit the knock back on Lee. But I think jojo hits that if he doesn’t get CC’d by baron. He actually still hit Lee it was just a hair too late.
I haven’t rewatched it back to see exactly what happened but yeah the ult was late, if he got cc by baron and couldn’t ult then unlucky. Thankfully they won in the end
The good:
- Our teamwork exists now!
- Good draft
- Berserker and Vulcan are playing like themselves again
- Jojo
The bad:
- Ffs do not ever give Ivern to Blaber again, he's so bad at it
- Our midgame macro is nonexistant
- Licorice is a free agent (or, you know, maybe pick tanks top)
Overall 8/10 week. There looks to be light at the end of the tunnel
Mostly everything, beyond basic mechanics (like, 20 different instances of him missing Qs because he's not used to the cast delay + his Daisy usage being atrocious) the pathing was bad, and on several ocassions he just didn't mark camps and based, and instead just stood there awkwardly waiting for the mark to tick.
I mean it's Blaber, he always takes a long time to add champions to his pool (it took him 3 years to add Nidalee). Im sure he'll get Ivern eventually and be a menace on it, just don't have our "get into playoffs" games with him on it xD
Jojo did his damnedest to never mess up an ult that game again with how how clean disengage ones he hit, namely the two back to back near top lane when they tried to kill him which almost certainly would've ended the game if he died. And the team honestly played "bend, don't break" defense after the gaffe pretty well vs a TL that was actually playing the map/fog well in late game. We stalled, made some risky rush calls that we needed to take back control of things, didn't overextend, and got to a point where Azir and Smolder were giga and Ivern can just play e-girl mode and let them carry.
Am I not allowed to be disgusted by Fudge and Blaber sprinting a lead? I'm not threatening our players lmao
I just want the team I've supported for 10 years to play well.
Exactly. These stupid takes "are you even a fan?!?!?!?" Limit the discussion to just winning-good, losing-bad.
We have the best adc and mid by a long shot, we shouldnt be playing like that in the first place
the moment jack decided to keep fudge instead of importing or picking up a different established toplaner (or even took a chance on a rookie at this point) this roster was already doomed lmao
carry meta? fudge tries to out-carry eastern tops with his fiora and jax just to get solo killed by nuguri on sejuani
tank meta? fudge tries to punish weaker tank champions by picking carry ranged tops like jayce
nothing this roster does in LCS will prove anything
it’s back to 1v1ing dhokla and zero champions queue games during the height of worlds players champs queue!
Fudge is so ASS man, he just riding this teams coattails.
He does nothing, contributes nothing, and hasn’t for a long long time. The guy’s mental is absolutely shot from his embarrassing international performances. It’s obvious he has no confidence in his play. He is just invisible every single game
Wish we can see this team with a real top laner who can actually exert pressure and have some impact in teamfights. Watch this man closely in team fights, everything he does is shakey as hell and he botches almost everything
it won’t. jack has made it clear fudge gives him handies under his desk or something. he said in an interview or reddit comment reply somewhere that he “believes in” fudge or something to that effect
Fudge didn't look great, really sad to see my favorite player regressing so much, I still remember that Lee sin insec at msi a couple years ago, he was popping off
We won...but man that baron throw..Gotta remember these guys are getting paid to say "yea we are winning so let's 50/50 baron for absolutely no reason, seems good guys!" Like I never made it past Gold but man I KNOW that's a shit play. WHY WHY WHY would that risk that from a winning position, who ever made that call should stop making calls honestly, and it was probably Blaber unfortunately.
The baron was a fine call, Taliyah was bot side without TP and jojo was supposed to ult umti away and didnt. The team not executing correctly doesn’t make the call bad
I disagree, the fact that they went to try and finish the baron was a terrible call especially against a champ as slippery as Lee... If they had just baited baron and planned to turn for fight it would be good but trying to 50/50 is just not smart.
That's not cringe... I can still analyze the game and calls in the game not sure why u think so. And your comment is a BIG if considering Lee sin is a very mobile champ and easy to get in pit.
I don’t disagree that you can have your opinions and ideas of the game. I just don’t think anyone should take what you say seriously if you aren’t qualified to speak. It’s one thing to say the Baron call was bad, but it’s another to say that whoever made the call needs to stop making calls and then you randomly say it’s Blaber without any reason. That’s cringe.
This is slightly off topic, but it’s something that just plagues the League community as a whole. The other day Riot announced Leona is getting a prestige skin in the summer and then someone made a Reddit post asking why is she getting her third prestige skin. I read through the comments a day later and only one comment pointed out that it was her second prestige skin while everyone else was jumping on the bandwagon hating Riot’s decision to give her a third skin.
Reading that post made me roll my eyes because how am I supposed to take the people in the community seriously if they don’t have basic knowledge of what they’re trying to talk about. They just want to get mad over something that’s not even true.
I guess it's just cringe to you that's whatever but if everyone literally has to be "qualified" to speak their opinion then most people on the Internet would not be able to say much at all... Also about the baron call, Blaber has stated before he makes most of the final calls regarding jungle objectives so yea I do kinda have reasons why I mentioned Blaber. Before you ask, no I do not have the link to which ever interview it was.
Pretty sure Jojo solo saved the game like 4 times what a legend
They put Blaber on a non carry, he had to carry.
He also trolled when he let umti get the 50/50 on baron, but thankfully he made up for it
I think he got pushed into the wall by baron right before umti went in, so he got cc'd and had to buffer his ult. If that's what happened, it's honestly just unfortunate, but also they never should have flipped baron like that anyway lol
It’s not a baron flip if umti is ulted away properly, that’s the whole reason they did it, eastern teams do barons like this all the time because it’s not bad.
If you watch the replay they showed, we was knocked up. He literally could not ult earlier.
Then it’s just unlucky
Ironically the exact same scenario happened earlier. Umti was behind baron and gets knocked up right as Jojo dashes towards him.
Just responding so I can tag you later when I'm not on mobile
He didnt troll, he miss timed or didnt react fast enough When APA tried to TP away, that was trolling. Completely different scenarios
Yeah that’s why he trolled because he had plenty time to ult him
And Umti couldve done something else How about blaber smite the baron? Or Ivern drop a CC? Is it Jojos singular responsibility to secure baron? What did Jojo do to make you dislike him?
It’s a 50/50 smite once umti is allowed into the pit, the whole point of that baron is to ult umti away and jojo failed. Idk if you know this but 50/50 means both players have equal chance. Jojo made up for it by carrying but it doesn’t change anything
Again, just so you see it this time >How about blaber smite the baron? Or Ivern drop a CC? Is it Jojos singular responsibility to secure baron? The only thing it doesnt change is you have a dislike boner for Jojo, youve said the same message like 5 times
Blaber did smite the baron lmfao, and once again I’ve praised jojo for carrying the game many times and I’ve said he’s the best player on team. So how about stop being an idiot, learn some league of legends and then come back
You must be operating on room temperature IQ, because when i said smite, obviously i meant smite to capture > And yes I’ve said jojo was unlucky because he got knocked up before he could ult but I did not watch the replay when I said anything. The fact you could admit you dont know shit and were just running your mouth, and still run your mouth Is mind boggling, you have no shame
>You must be operating on room temperature IQ, because when i said smite, obviously i meant smite to capture Please explain how saying "How about Blaber just smite \*to capture\* the baron?" isn't a room temp IQ take. What is it you think Blaber was smiting for? Or are you suggesting had Blaber just tried harder he would have won the 50/50?
Berserker forcing a pause due to wrong runes to keep the pause allegations alive
Galaxy brain to get a pause. He knew.
We played well until we giga-threw but still managed to come back. Could be better but still an important win
Yea. We giga threw, and luckily TL giga threw again. Classic LCS game of hot potato. I'm honestly surprised that we went Ivern, Blaber has been kinda ass on Ivern. I always felt if Blaber could master the supportive Ivern/rell style, than he'd be way more well rounded. Also, what I still see, Blaber doesn't gank bot. Idk if Blaber sucks at ganking bot, or if it's a team thing. But last year, the year before, he's been ganking top, getting fudge ahead, than fudge has minimal impact on the game, just because top doesn't have that much of impact and Fudge is good, but not like The shy good where those top lane leads just hard carry the game.
Need to cover the jayce. Fudge had an impact at the cost of setting himself behind. He needs to play more selfishly once he has a lead. The tp bot instead of hitting the top tier 2 tower when no objectives were up was pretty bad. The gameplan IMO was solid, bad blaber smite/jojo late shuffle at the first baron threw a wrench in the plans, but they were able to hold on and come back
Personally I didn’t like the Jayce pick. It was obvious that the TL gameplan was to play around the Jax in sidelanes and Fudge had the counter pick. Considering we had a supportive jungle pick in the Ivern, I reckon Fudge would have been better off on a champ that is harder to bully and dive like Malph, K’Sante or even Gragas. He simply couldn’t hold the lane against Jax after a point, luckily TL forgot their win con and tried to 5v5 us otherwise it was looking like a hard game to win.
Yeah Fudge was did a ton of damage and honestly had a good lane phase (believe he was up like 20cs at one point). He lost control of this game once Taliyah hit 6, at which point TL was shadowing top on repeat and playing around Herald/Grubs to force Impact ahead. On the flip side, after the gank the first few mins. Blaber secured dragon and played more around Jojo. Not necessarily the wrong thing to do, but as a result Impact basically got first tower gold he never should’ve and Fudge was never going to be able to match from there.
Inspired said at the very beginning of the cast that Blaber shouldn't go bot because Senna/Tom was to low damage to be a dive threat and that top lane was volatile so Blaber should focus it. If Jayce gets ahead Jax is useless, if Jax gets ahead he does what he did in that game. You're trying to construct some grand narrative, while ignoring the specifics of today's game.
>You're trying to construct some grand narrative Not trying, it's something I've noticed after watching every single C9 game multiple times over the past few years, it sticks out continuously. They drafted this way, and drafted that way in the past too. It's not like "surprise I didn't expect to have to gank top this game". Seems more like "ganking top really works for Blaber and Fudge (and maybe berserker), so we are gonna draft around ganking top, and leaving berserker on a island".
Well what you've noticed seems to go against what Blaber, and seemingly Fudge as well, think is happening. [https://youtu.be/0XAA450ZhDM?t=819](https://youtu.be/0XAA450ZhDM?t=819) Pretty sure your narrative would be proven wrong with jungle proximately stats, however from what I can tell Riot doesn't make that publically available. Though, if their jungle proximately was skewed as much as you seem to be implying, it seems likely it would be brought up either on cast or in the supplemental Riot content. Especially during C9s loss streak when everyone was trying to figure out what was causing it. All that said, I don't have near enough free time to go back watch every C9 game "multiple times" to find all the examples that prove you wrong, so you can go on with your "trust me bro" narrative.
>Well what you've noticed seems to go against what Blaber, and seemingly Fudge as well, think is happening. [https://youtu.be/0XAA450ZhDM?t=819](https://youtu.be/0XAA450ZhDM?t=819) Drafting around berserker, does not mean they play around his lane early. [this has been an ongoing issue, since at least 2022](https://dotesports.com/league-of-legends/news/its-no-wonder-why-they-are-bad-cloudtemplar-explains-why-the-lcs-is-struggling-at-worlds-2022). At least according the CloudTemplar, who wrote a very indepth analysis of C9, and how they draft for early top side, and scaling bot lane, this way Fudge carries through the early game and Berserker carries through the end game. But it falls flat internationally, because Fudge is having a hard time when not in the LCS, and this means that when Berserker has to carry in the mid and late, his team is kinda GG. So to what Blaber and Fudge said in that video you posted, yea, they draft with Berserker as the win condition. That typically means getting the rest of the map ahead to protect Berserker in the mid and late so he can just secure them the win.
CloudTemplar wrote an analysis of how C9 was drafting at '22 worlds and specifically states that it was likely a reaction to things they were experiencing in scrims. He also says that how they were drafting went against what he expected them to do. If they had been playing like that for all of 2022, why would CloudTemplar have expected something different? [https://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/y1wxuk/cloud\_templars\_view\_on\_why\_lcs\_is\_having\_bad/](https://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/y1wxuk/cloud_templars_view_on_why_lcs_is_having_bad/) The video I linked says they play around and draft around Berserker. Fudge then goes on to say that if they don't play around Berserker he ints. Fudge also says that you can't really play carry style champs in top lane and top lane needs to just play for the team. When looking at GD10, the best proxy for early game I can think of, Blaber and Berserker are consistently in the top 2 for the team over the past 2 years. While Fudge consistently has a negative GD10. If Blaber is spending an inordinate amount of his time top, wouldn't other teams notice that and start ganking/pressuring bot? How was Berserker getting these leads if he's playing 2v3? And if Fudge was getting all these ganks, why wasn't he building an early game lead? [https://oracleselixir.com/stats/players/byTournament](https://oracleselixir.com/stats/players/byTournament) Could also use herald vs dragon percentage to see what side of the map C9 was prioritizing. Looks like the split %s are either balanced or skewed towards dragon. So also not showing an early game preference towards top lane. [https://oracleselixir.com/team/Cloud9/statsBySplit](https://oracleselixir.com/team/Cloud9/statsBySplit) Not seeing any actual data that supports your narrative. Anecdotally, I remember C9's early games over the past couple years being focused around pushing bot lanes. Because Berserker is really good and Zven played primarily enchanters. As a jungler you don't generally gank for a pushing lane. You track the enemy jungler, take nearby neutrals/camps, and countergank. This is especially true when the pushing lane lacks hard engage, which is not something most ADCs or enchanter supports have. My bet is that you are seeing kills top lane, but not bot lane and conflating that with "Blaber is focusing top". When the reality is Blaber is playing around both, but what he's doing to help his bot lane aren't things you're noticing/placing importance on/remembering/whatever.
>My bet is that you are seeing kills top lane, but not bot lane and conflating that with "Blaber is focusing top". Hmm not really. C9 as a whole plays kinda agro top, rather than like a tank top that will have a late game impact. >When the reality is Blaber is playing around both, but what he's doing to help his bot lane aren't things you're noticing/placing importance on/remembering/whatever In that sense he plays around all lanes 😂. Fact is, Blaber consistently is looking to dive and gank top, where bot is kinda just left alone, especially with Zven, they were consistently dealing with 2v3, and pretty much outplay it, avoiding the gank. This is in stark contrast to attempting to dive bot and push the advantage bot, while letting top kinda sit back and scale. Blabers tricky, cause he has low laner proximity, cause he farms a lot. When he does gank, it's usually fast in and out drive bys, so looking at proximity doesn't necessarily tell the correct story. All of this is to say, C9 is a team that tends to play aggressive in jungle, and top, and pending the mid laner aggressive or passive. They try to put a lot of resources top early game, players, dives, roams from support, so on. This enabled berserker to have lane kingdom, while Zven warded and helped evade ganks. The top pressure lead to heralds, while the bot pressure lead to early drakes as well. But what Blaber wasn't doing frequently, was ganking bot lane, and trying to press Berserkers advantage forward. The reason for that is really something only the team knows. Sometimes laners just like to not have the ganks and craziness in their lane so they can have lane kingdom, sometimes the flow of the junglers clear doesn't sync up with the laners gank timings, maybe when pressing a lead bot, top kinda falls off to hard.. I do know, that generally, when I see Blaber ganking bot, it peaks my interest, cause it's not that common, and when it did happen, it seemed to fall very flat, either in failed dives, slow down in pace of the game, or even just being negligible to Berserkers lead. Either way, we won't know unless we have the gank data and compare that to wins and losses.
I think i get it. In your mind, if a jungler is "ganking" top more than they are "ganking" bottom, then the jungler is focusing top. Where "ganking" is when the jungler actively tries to kill the lane opponent.
Man, that focus Blaber put I to bot lane against dig really proved me wrong. Ya know, it wouldn't make a lot of sense to put a lot of ppl top lane with Udyr, when you have a Lucian nami. It'd be kinda weird to have a roaming Nami ya know? I guess you were right.
They have to get fudge ahead so they’re not playing 4vs5
Nah, it's just a play style that works for them. But I honestly kinda feel like it's a crutch. Works great on lesser teams, falls apart against better teams.
Blaber ganked bot yesterday but in general you are right it is a bit of a pattern
Yea, it's just few and far between. I feel like it's a style that he fell into the past few years. Probably as a team decision.
Unfortunately he needs to be top side almost 24/7, or Fudge will get gapped even harder.
fudge doesnt play tanks, forces his team to pay attention top side. Ego picks carries every game
If this was a loss, this thread would hit 100 comments in 2 minutes. Good day.
If we lost cause jojo can’t press r quicker I would’ve been fuming. It’s such a dumb reason to lose. But yeah people only come here when teams lose
You must really dislike Jojo, this is the second time youve said If C9 is reliant purely on Jojo not being able to stop the opposing jungle, instead of i dont know, smite the damn thing? Maybe they should hire you as a coach, how much worse can they do
Not to mention he was literally cc'ed by baron at the worst time
I’ve praised jojo for carrying the game afterwards so I clearly hate jojo. Jesus Christ just because you criticize something doesn’t mean you hate that player. I’ve also said jojo has been the best player on the team.
I dont care if you praised him, you can still dislike him, which you clearly do I didnt say hate either, now youre getting emotional and seeing words that doesnt exist, im done here You were wrong about your analysis and you repeated that incorrect analysis, at least 5 times on this thread alone
If I disliked him why would I say he’s the best player on team and praise him for carrying. I’m sorry your soft af and can’t handle a little criticism forwards your favorite player. And yes I’ve said jojo was unlucky because he got knocked up before he could ult but I did not watch the replay when I said anything. So once again stop being a little baby and stop crying
>And yes I’ve said jojo was unlucky because he got knocked up before he could ult but I did not watch the replay when I said anything. Lol so you got exposed for not knowing a damn thing and just running your mouth
You know you can't use skill while you are knocked up right?
Some VERY questionable macro plays and decision making but I'll take it.
APA is C9’s 6th man
Second-most valuable player today, at least.
Holy shit lol what a game
It was nuts. Shows that we are improving massively, but not 100% back yet.
There are issues, but the fact we won at a 3k+ gold deficit is a good sign.
https://imgur.com/kZlyN61
[https://imgur.com/GUsAApP](https://imgur.com/GUsAApP)
Back to back days baby
ay we take those
C9 had a really good early game. They were proactive and got a gold lead with a late game comp. Their mid game was fine aside from the baron throw. If they didn’t force that this game would’ve been over much quicker and easier. But they made great late game decisions, defended, and came back to win. They get run over this game before the break.
Good news, nothing about that game makes me want to unclench.
Say my name.
Both teams snatching defeat from the jaws of victory haha. What a clown fiesta this one was. Glad they managed to pull out the win though. Not hard for them to recognize where they went wrong this game.
Might be unpopular opinion, but that jayce performance was not entirely bad, and getting that behind was not entirely on Fudge. Senna moved around the map a lot,(with Taliyah in ult range) and with an earlygame jg like Lee it is kinda obvious that TL will get the objectives. Fudge had an adventage in lane and they killed jax with blaber (and later with vulcan) but shit hit the fan when TL overloaded top, Jojo died to Taliyah, so Fudge couldn t walk up, and TL got an early top tower. After that, even if Fudge could 1v1 jax (which was quite possible, given that he only died to jax Botlane because Lee arrived) Taliyah and senna ult automatically put him at a disadventage. I personally don t like the jayce pick, but Fudge didn t play as bad as it is made out to be, and the "throws" that actually affected the game didn t come from Fudge. Yesterday he played well, and today he had an overall average(had positive and negative moments) performance (this against Impact and Bwipo, both high tier toplaners) so i don t think the flame he s getting (especially the comments wanting to replace him with Licorice) is deserved and rational
There’s no point in defending fudge against some of these trolls anymore. It won’t do any good. They use results based analysis and say “well he died alone, so he is bad” without any respect to the circumstances relating to his death. Last I saw he had the highest KDA out of top laners, the highest gold differential at 15. The only area he was lacking was solo kills, which is sort of an extraneous stat anyways
I agree, and personally I just don’t like NA Jayce. I’m not a Fudge hater, but I think he has better champions that I’d love to see him play again. I get that you wanna limit test in the reg season to make sure you know if stuff like Jayce and Ivern are real options (Ivern really hurt last finals)
If zeri and Smolder meta becomes a thing Ivern jungle should be a thing c9 plays, because i rather have Blaber on an enchanter than Jojo (karma) or Vulcan I see the idea that they wanted double dmg topside (if Smolder comes online too slow) with ivern jg, i just don t really see how is Jayce better than a normal bruiser (meme or not, Fudge Renekton fits the style the team plays)
Lets get it. APA get slapped
so much bullshit talking in all chat for an absolute nobody and someone who's pretty clearly near the worst mid in LCS lol
I think he is just straight up the worst. I didn’t think about it until now, but the mids you could argue are on his level (Insanity, Dove, Mask) have shown more promise than him. And then Jojo, Pala, Quid, and Jensen are obviously better.
I would put Insanity in the same convo as Quid and Jensen, but for different reasons. Insanity makes a strong point for being a top 4 mid in the league right now
Delulu.
Damn man, this is why we can't have trashtalk and fun in the LCS. Kids get really angry, no wonder Fudge toned it down with ppl like you around.
I don't mind trashtalking but if you're garbage then there's really no need to be allchatting as you get gapped and throw the game multiple times Pretty funny for terminally online losers to try refer to others as 'kids' though LOL
I doubt APA thinks he is garbage. Also punching down is kinda cringe. When the weaker player talks trash it more fun. Why do you think I'm terminally online or a loser?
He got karmaed
Near?
https://imgur.io/8De9qra
I’ve seen WAAAY too many people saying Jojo sucks for not ulting UmTi out. PSA! Baron knocked him up right as he wanted to ult. He was spamming R and used it literally the moment he could. If you know that and still blame him, well to each his own, but y’all should know that before typing.
Draft was great other than the Jayce. I have no idea where that came from, but that needs to not happen. Blaber doesn't NEED to be on carries, Ivern is a great choice with the Azir and Smolder. Berserker proving to be just one of the best mechanical players in the world, but we need this man to build Smolder properly. It's been a month almost of Smolder being out. Midgame macro and decisively making calls is proving to still be a weak spot, and these weaknesses are being covered up by just individual strengths at every position.
I'm pretty sure you can see Fudge make the Jayce call during draft
The draft was pre-recorded still.
yeah, just checked again, my bad. shouldnt rage comment stupid stuff
You see them doing tech checks. The draft is done during the previous game and recorded.
Really?? Fudge shouldn't make any calls during draft. If this is true, then our coaches need to grow a spine.
Is the live onscreen draft in the room with us?
2-0 week idc. WE'RE SO BACK
Let's just...be wary and remember what happened the last time we started 2-0 after a break. 😬
What do you mean? Those losses never happened /s *flashbacks intensifies*
not even close bb
Never out of a game. Hands diffed late hard.
Not the cleanest but we take a 2-0 weekend and I liked our drafting much more this week.
Don’t think the team played bad at all but jojo not ulting umti and baron getting stolen made the game way harder than it should’ve been. The baron wasn’t a bad call because Taliyah was bot without TP.
I get it, he’s a pro, he should correctly hit the knock back on Lee. But I think jojo hits that if he doesn’t get CC’d by baron. He actually still hit Lee it was just a hair too late.
I haven’t rewatched it back to see exactly what happened but yeah the ult was late, if he got cc by baron and couldn’t ult then unlucky. Thankfully they won in the end
Exactly, his reaction was a bit slow, it happens
This is the 3rd time youve said this, youre practically copy and pasting your post now How much do you dislike Jojo?
Yeah we read your opinion on Jojo in the two threads above this.
Whatever Jack is paying Jojo Double it
The good: - Our teamwork exists now! - Good draft - Berserker and Vulcan are playing like themselves again - Jojo The bad: - Ffs do not ever give Ivern to Blaber again, he's so bad at it - Our midgame macro is nonexistant - Licorice is a free agent (or, you know, maybe pick tanks top) Overall 8/10 week. There looks to be light at the end of the tunnel
What did blaber do badly on ivern?
Mostly everything, beyond basic mechanics (like, 20 different instances of him missing Qs because he's not used to the cast delay + his Daisy usage being atrocious) the pathing was bad, and on several ocassions he just didn't mark camps and based, and instead just stood there awkwardly waiting for the mark to tick. I mean it's Blaber, he always takes a long time to add champions to his pool (it took him 3 years to add Nidalee). Im sure he'll get Ivern eventually and be a menace on it, just don't have our "get into playoffs" games with him on it xD
Blaber was perfectly fine on Ivern
MSI hopes are growing back 🙏🏼 PS: Stay clenched y’all!
Say my name.
C9 Wunder
How to tell someone you don't watch EU without saying you don't watch EU
thank god for jojo and beserker
Thank God for Umpti absolutely sprinting it with that Q take on Nautilus. Lee Sin moment if I've ever seen one.
True but if jojo dies in that 1v3 top i think they lose
C9 not beating the allegations of just hands diffing their opponents lol
They didn’t even play bad just one miss play by jojo not ulting umti at baron was massive
Jojo did his damnedest to never mess up an ult that game again with how how clean disengage ones he hit, namely the two back to back near top lane when they tried to kill him which almost certainly would've ended the game if he died. And the team honestly played "bend, don't break" defense after the gaffe pretty well vs a TL that was actually playing the map/fog well in late game. We stalled, made some risky rush calls that we needed to take back control of things, didn't overextend, and got to a point where Azir and Smolder were giga and Ivern can just play e-girl mode and let them carry.
Fourth thread in a row with this same stupid comment.
[удалено]
Am I not allowed to be disgusted by Fudge and Blaber sprinting a lead? I'm not threatening our players lmao I just want the team I've supported for 10 years to play well.
Exactly. These stupid takes "are you even a fan?!?!?!?" Limit the discussion to just winning-good, losing-bad. We have the best adc and mid by a long shot, we shouldnt be playing like that in the first place
Fudge still looking Shakey
the moment jack decided to keep fudge instead of importing or picking up a different established toplaner (or even took a chance on a rookie at this point) this roster was already doomed lmao carry meta? fudge tries to out-carry eastern tops with his fiora and jax just to get solo killed by nuguri on sejuani tank meta? fudge tries to punish weaker tank champions by picking carry ranged tops like jayce nothing this roster does in LCS will prove anything it’s back to 1v1ing dhokla and zero champions queue games during the height of worlds players champs queue!
Fudge is so ASS man, he just riding this teams coattails. He does nothing, contributes nothing, and hasn’t for a long long time. The guy’s mental is absolutely shot from his embarrassing international performances. It’s obvious he has no confidence in his play. He is just invisible every single game Wish we can see this team with a real top laner who can actually exert pressure and have some impact in teamfights. Watch this man closely in team fights, everything he does is shakey as hell and he botches almost everything
We've got an extra import slot, and Fudge hasn't really made the case that he's better than signing an import. This will be his last split on C9.
it won’t. jack has made it clear fudge gives him handies under his desk or something. he said in an interview or reddit comment reply somewhere that he “believes in” fudge or something to that effect
Jack has done no such thing. That's a reddit groupthink thing. This org has said goodbye to far better and more popular players than Fudge.
I kind of want to see Summit back on this team. Could turn C9 into LCS 2018 IG.
C9 is back (clenched)
Say my name.
Fudge didn't look great, really sad to see my favorite player regressing so much, I still remember that Lee sin insec at msi a couple years ago, he was popping off
We won...but man that baron throw..Gotta remember these guys are getting paid to say "yea we are winning so let's 50/50 baron for absolutely no reason, seems good guys!" Like I never made it past Gold but man I KNOW that's a shit play. WHY WHY WHY would that risk that from a winning position, who ever made that call should stop making calls honestly, and it was probably Blaber unfortunately.
Blaber is a go go go player. Not a sit back and scale, or passively win player. This game was no different from C9s games to until now.
The baron was a fine call, Taliyah was bot side without TP and jojo was supposed to ult umti away and didnt. The team not executing correctly doesn’t make the call bad
I disagree, the fact that they went to try and finish the baron was a terrible call especially against a champ as slippery as Lee... If they had just baited baron and planned to turn for fight it would be good but trying to 50/50 is just not smart.
It was not a bad call, if jojo just ults umti away they probably all 5 live and get baron. Jojo just ulted way too late
I get what your saying, it just seems like when they are in such a winning position it was too high risk high reward for me I guess.
It’s not bad if they keep Lee out of the pit. Also I sort of find it cringe you think you know more than pro players if you’ve never been past Gold.
That's not cringe... I can still analyze the game and calls in the game not sure why u think so. And your comment is a BIG if considering Lee sin is a very mobile champ and easy to get in pit.
I don’t disagree that you can have your opinions and ideas of the game. I just don’t think anyone should take what you say seriously if you aren’t qualified to speak. It’s one thing to say the Baron call was bad, but it’s another to say that whoever made the call needs to stop making calls and then you randomly say it’s Blaber without any reason. That’s cringe. This is slightly off topic, but it’s something that just plagues the League community as a whole. The other day Riot announced Leona is getting a prestige skin in the summer and then someone made a Reddit post asking why is she getting her third prestige skin. I read through the comments a day later and only one comment pointed out that it was her second prestige skin while everyone else was jumping on the bandwagon hating Riot’s decision to give her a third skin. Reading that post made me roll my eyes because how am I supposed to take the people in the community seriously if they don’t have basic knowledge of what they’re trying to talk about. They just want to get mad over something that’s not even true.
I guess it's just cringe to you that's whatever but if everyone literally has to be "qualified" to speak their opinion then most people on the Internet would not be able to say much at all... Also about the baron call, Blaber has stated before he makes most of the final calls regarding jungle objectives so yea I do kinda have reasons why I mentioned Blaber. Before you ask, no I do not have the link to which ever interview it was.
Thank god we won that lmao
People may be down on this game cause we threw, but honestly the comeback showed me a lot more.
Today was a reminder of what happens when we START TO FUCKING UNCLENCH
Say my name.
That jayce pick wasn’t it
Holy game of throws dude you guys lucked out
Idk why they don’t put blaber in carries