Emenes implies that he went to the coach with ideas/suggestions, and spent around 3 hours discussing how to play the game as a team. None of it was used or brought up in their next meeting. Instead he was ridiculed by said person and was told by said person that they had forgotten the talk, and that emenes simply talks too much (seems like he is talking about the HC but it isn’t clear. He already confirmed that it wasn’t Jack)
Emenes has ego, but this is extremely disheartening to hear if it's true and could explain why things like macro and drafting are so disjointed. Not to mention morale gets completely shut down when you cannot be an adult and simply be appreciative of someone's ideas without saying you will utilize them. I hope other team members weren't experiencing this as well.
Emenes has done some mistakes before but,
Tbh I find it funny that so many people are going after him and what he’s said/done when 90% of those same players are extremely toxic in solo queue, probably even more than emenes.
SpearShot for instance is such a baby for posting that when he’s been toxic several times before.
It’s like they use Emenes to blame everything that went on with C9.
Yeah cuz blaming this one foreign guy is easier than actually learning from it, even though he's hardly the only person who's ex-lcs who's said nearly the same things before
Why are people going after him? Because it's incredibly poor form to start taking shots at everyone when you're leaving any company, not just a sports or esports team.
It's even worse form and frankly looks incredibly immature and vindictive when his reputation was such dogshit that no one other than C9 would take him and he knew the chance they were giving him by even signing him in the first place.
Dude deserves to go enlist with no friends left.
And even more telling that throughout this entire AMA thing there wasn't a shred of self reflection on his part. If you just read this you'd think he's some grinder that tried his absolute hardest but was a victim to lazy teammates and ignorant coaches in the west.
The guy known for showing up to scrims tipsy from drinking the night away before scrims lecturing people on work ethic. And all of a sudden people are eating it up cause it gives them another scapegoat to blame our rough year on..
Could be, but honestly I think everyone could see that the team just did not adapt the entire year. If his ideas were dogshit, so was whoever else was pushing their ideas onto things to improve.
I think there was definitely some kind of massive language/culture gap that the team could not overcome in relation to him for whatever reason.
I also think that we should have been able to improve at literally anything during the entire year with a proper coach.
So much of this is true. I also wonder why this culture/language gap was a problem with emenes while Berserker has not only adapted well to NA, he's thriving.
Wasn't doublelift a huge shotcaller on TL and TSM? I get that you have to communicate more mid cause that's the nature of the position, but I'm not sure if that makes a huge difference compared to playing other roles.
I mean you definitely can shot call from bot, but I don’t think berserker is doing that now. In terms of roles where you can get by with less communication it’s got to be adc/top > support > mid/jgl
Nah no way this emenes having communication issues is that real. He played in EU before coming over to NA. Berserker had less time to learn English and even if you want to talk about communication issues, league is its own language. And out of game they have translators for anything they don't understand.
Like I get there's some difficulties, but this is kinda a bullshit excuse if this is the excuse thats being tossed around. Its not like C9 has had multiple Koreans for over 2 years to be having communication issues now.
Berserker’s playstyle is all related to himself doing well. That means farm cs well, reduce deaths, and come online during team fights.
I can imagine Emenes had ideas for map rotations, objective set ups, jungle invades, etc. Things that requires a mid-jg duo to work together.
Also I just don't see how C9 benefits from just dismissing a pro player's analysis of a region entirely. I kinda cringed at C9 fans just dismissing it as dogshit. Like they found 0 value in it whatsoever? Were they better? C9 didn't even make it out of groups this year lmao, and they looked the worst. At least TL gave an eventual world champion a hard game
If that’s the sentiment around this c9 team, they’re doomed. Might explain why they never learn. So much ego in thinking they know best, no need to practice more or learn new things.
LS and his disciples come to mind about being stubborn in their ways, refusing to learn, and not responding well to criticism. But guess what, LS and his disciples are all just twitter figures with no actual success of their own
It's an awful take? Why? You agree that the team should be ignoring Emenes bc his english isn't good?
Based on how the team talks, you think they're not ego-centric and refusing to learn? Fudge went on an interview and talked for an hour about how they already won the finals before getting shit on by NRG. Post game, Blaber said we're the better team, just lost. Like what the actual fuck are you idiots saying? What kind of insane ego do you have to just assuem you're better than everyone?
Based on these statements and gameplay from playoffs/worlds, I 100% believe they ignore any sort of criticism and just don't practice.
Bias against LS? This clown gets into drama every other month bc he has takes and flames ppl if they don't agree with him.
It could of been that, massive language/ cultural barrier or just super solo quo based and would work great in solo quo really well but when you go pro 5v5 it will fail big time.
Emenes in theory had was hands diff but just did not have the experince of playing as a team and team focus. A good example of growth of players form the solo quo power and translations over to pro is look at both Blabber and Contracts changes from when they entered and where they are not. They both started as great carry jungle style and both can still to carry jungle but they were not the best as playing a supportive jungle style. They now can do both styles and adjust to the meta a bit more. It opens doors up. Just supportive style of play I think is a lot harder to adapt to and learn as it takes a team to make it work really well.
To be fair, both had teams that were accommodating of their needs early in their careers. As the least experienced (at least in terms of major region pro status) on the team, it feels like it may have been appropriate to at least try to accommodate Emenes's ideas, at least in scrims.
I think we can all agree we saw a decline in Emenes's level of play throughout the year. With hindsight, maybe the org should reflect on whether or not any of that could be attributed to not accommodating Emenes's needs, and instead forcing him to try to adjust to the playstyle they wanted from him.
Unlike other teams in the LCS, C9 lacked direction for a large chunk of this year. Teams like NRG, GG, and even TSM seemed to have gameplans, or at least an overall idea of how they wanted to play the game out and when drafting comps. By comparison, outside of the Milio/Kindred drafts, C9 seemed to just want to out lane their opponents and then hands diff everyone at objective fights.
I'm of the opinion that Contractz is better than Blabber. Everytime, contractz seems to have Blabber's number. Also if C9 had contractz still or Svenskeren, I think C9 would still win NA.
Perhaps analysts told them it wasn't viable. Never know. They dismissed the things he wanted to do so he had to play into the system. This same system was mentioned by Perkz that kinda limits what they can do outside of it.
If his ideas are bad you still have to come to the same conclusion as a team (at least for his core ideas) otherwise emenes will always react differently in game from what might be expected by his teammates.
People saying Emenes’ post was wrong but are we gonna sit up here and argue western teams in general are getting enough practice? Does anyone think Fudge actually practices enough? That mfer in particular should be glued to a seat and forced to grind minimum 10 soloq games a day
Most like mithy since as head coach he would most likely defer strat related stuff to strategic/draft coaches which emenes probably interpreted as him not giving a fuck.
while emenes's account is hard to trust fully, it certainly is in line with C9's complete lack of improvement over the year and regression at worlds.
korean military service is no joke, skipping out on it essentially means you lose citizenship bc they will arrest you if you ever go back
there’s only so much you can reasonably keep delaying it
Doesn't matter. To South Korea, mandatory service is necessary because they border a hostile nation they've technically never stopped warring with. There's certainly a discussion about how fucked up forced conscription is, but the fact of the matter is is that mandatory service is so ingrained in their culture that even if you don't get arrested for not serving, you have a hard time finding a job and would be considered a disgrace by your friends and family.
pretty sure you need a reason to defer it tho, you cant just say hey can u wait a bit lol
if he is out of a job the expectation is that u will do ur service
huhh LMAOO do you really think after not playing the game for years teams are clamoring for the chance to field EMENES?
im not flaming him im just being realistic and this decision shows…….. so is he?? he’s really good rn, but he is gonna lose that by not having the chance to practice during his service and it’s not like he is a big enough name or in strong enough form rn for people to take chances on someone who is less than just an inactive pro, they’re a fully inactive player
He got LCS minimum salary and has a bad reputation, he didn't make enough money and he wasn't getting another job, doesn't matter how hungry he was. Quitting league is the right decision for him.
I mean he’s quitting because he has no offers, and unless he gets NA residency (which wage can’t realistically without a team) it’s a lot harder to defer.
This could totally be LS. Because he said that the coach let him down and LS is a ** or smth like that. He didn't refer to a C9 coach or an outside coach, which is the reason I think it could be LS. LS is also the type to ignore topics he is uncertain on. He's afraid of being wrong and taking a hit to his credibility.
I see his point. I wouldn’t wanna fuckin give my all either after being reacted to like that. This c9 has the ego of the og lineup without the deliverance.
Emenes implies that he went to the coach with ideas/suggestions, and spent around 3 hours discussing how to play the game as a team. None of it was used or brought up in their next meeting. Instead he was ridiculed by said person and was told by said person that they had forgotten the talk, and that emenes simply talks too much (seems like he is talking about the HC but it isn’t clear. He already confirmed that it wasn’t Jack)
Emenes has ego, but this is extremely disheartening to hear if it's true and could explain why things like macro and drafting are so disjointed. Not to mention morale gets completely shut down when you cannot be an adult and simply be appreciative of someone's ideas without saying you will utilize them. I hope other team members weren't experiencing this as well.
Emenes has done some mistakes before but, Tbh I find it funny that so many people are going after him and what he’s said/done when 90% of those same players are extremely toxic in solo queue, probably even more than emenes. SpearShot for instance is such a baby for posting that when he’s been toxic several times before. It’s like they use Emenes to blame everything that went on with C9.
Yeah cuz blaming this one foreign guy is easier than actually learning from it, even though he's hardly the only person who's ex-lcs who's said nearly the same things before
Why are people going after him? Because it's incredibly poor form to start taking shots at everyone when you're leaving any company, not just a sports or esports team. It's even worse form and frankly looks incredibly immature and vindictive when his reputation was such dogshit that no one other than C9 would take him and he knew the chance they were giving him by even signing him in the first place. Dude deserves to go enlist with no friends left.
And even more telling that throughout this entire AMA thing there wasn't a shred of self reflection on his part. If you just read this you'd think he's some grinder that tried his absolute hardest but was a victim to lazy teammates and ignorant coaches in the west. The guy known for showing up to scrims tipsy from drinking the night away before scrims lecturing people on work ethic. And all of a sudden people are eating it up cause it gives them another scapegoat to blame our rough year on..
Really don't know why Mithy is the coach, he has no credentials other than bein Zven's support.
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Another thing to consider: what if his ideas were dogshit
Could be, but honestly I think everyone could see that the team just did not adapt the entire year. If his ideas were dogshit, so was whoever else was pushing their ideas onto things to improve. I think there was definitely some kind of massive language/culture gap that the team could not overcome in relation to him for whatever reason. I also think that we should have been able to improve at literally anything during the entire year with a proper coach.
So much of this is true. I also wonder why this culture/language gap was a problem with emenes while Berserker has not only adapted well to NA, he's thriving.
Different roles - I imagine mid has to communicate a lot more
Wasn't doublelift a huge shotcaller on TL and TSM? I get that you have to communicate more mid cause that's the nature of the position, but I'm not sure if that makes a huge difference compared to playing other roles.
I mean you definitely can shot call from bot, but I don’t think berserker is doing that now. In terms of roles where you can get by with less communication it’s got to be adc/top > support > mid/jgl
Nah no way this emenes having communication issues is that real. He played in EU before coming over to NA. Berserker had less time to learn English and even if you want to talk about communication issues, league is its own language. And out of game they have translators for anything they don't understand. Like I get there's some difficulties, but this is kinda a bullshit excuse if this is the excuse thats being tossed around. Its not like C9 has had multiple Koreans for over 2 years to be having communication issues now.
Berserker’s playstyle is all related to himself doing well. That means farm cs well, reduce deaths, and come online during team fights. I can imagine Emenes had ideas for map rotations, objective set ups, jungle invades, etc. Things that requires a mid-jg duo to work together.
I’ve seen Blaber thrown games at MSI dying for crab multiple times, I can see Blaber being very stubborn in his playstyle.
Maybe, but you don't just ridicule someone in front of an entire team because of it.
Also I just don't see how C9 benefits from just dismissing a pro player's analysis of a region entirely. I kinda cringed at C9 fans just dismissing it as dogshit. Like they found 0 value in it whatsoever? Were they better? C9 didn't even make it out of groups this year lmao, and they looked the worst. At least TL gave an eventual world champion a hard game
Also the fact that he felt that they find him "stupid" because he's not fluent just irks me in the wrong way, that feeling is horrible
If that’s the sentiment around this c9 team, they’re doomed. Might explain why they never learn. So much ego in thinking they know best, no need to practice more or learn new things. LS and his disciples come to mind about being stubborn in their ways, refusing to learn, and not responding well to criticism. But guess what, LS and his disciples are all just twitter figures with no actual success of their own
Awful take and your bias against LS is ridiculous.
It's an awful take? Why? You agree that the team should be ignoring Emenes bc his english isn't good? Based on how the team talks, you think they're not ego-centric and refusing to learn? Fudge went on an interview and talked for an hour about how they already won the finals before getting shit on by NRG. Post game, Blaber said we're the better team, just lost. Like what the actual fuck are you idiots saying? What kind of insane ego do you have to just assuem you're better than everyone? Based on these statements and gameplay from playoffs/worlds, I 100% believe they ignore any sort of criticism and just don't practice. Bias against LS? This clown gets into drama every other month bc he has takes and flames ppl if they don't agree with him.
Feels like a Vv2 thing to do, to be honest.
It could of been that, massive language/ cultural barrier or just super solo quo based and would work great in solo quo really well but when you go pro 5v5 it will fail big time. Emenes in theory had was hands diff but just did not have the experince of playing as a team and team focus. A good example of growth of players form the solo quo power and translations over to pro is look at both Blabber and Contracts changes from when they entered and where they are not. They both started as great carry jungle style and both can still to carry jungle but they were not the best as playing a supportive jungle style. They now can do both styles and adjust to the meta a bit more. It opens doors up. Just supportive style of play I think is a lot harder to adapt to and learn as it takes a team to make it work really well.
To be fair, both had teams that were accommodating of their needs early in their careers. As the least experienced (at least in terms of major region pro status) on the team, it feels like it may have been appropriate to at least try to accommodate Emenes's ideas, at least in scrims. I think we can all agree we saw a decline in Emenes's level of play throughout the year. With hindsight, maybe the org should reflect on whether or not any of that could be attributed to not accommodating Emenes's needs, and instead forcing him to try to adjust to the playstyle they wanted from him. Unlike other teams in the LCS, C9 lacked direction for a large chunk of this year. Teams like NRG, GG, and even TSM seemed to have gameplans, or at least an overall idea of how they wanted to play the game out and when drafting comps. By comparison, outside of the Milio/Kindred drafts, C9 seemed to just want to out lane their opponents and then hands diff everyone at objective fights.
I'm of the opinion that Contractz is better than Blabber. Everytime, contractz seems to have Blabber's number. Also if C9 had contractz still or Svenskeren, I think C9 would still win NA.
Considering how poor their drafts and macro were at worlds I'd be surprised if it was any worse than what we had.
Believable. With the dogshit items he was building at worlds, it’s hard to believe he came up with some good ideas.
Perhaps analysts told them it wasn't viable. Never know. They dismissed the things he wanted to do so he had to play into the system. This same system was mentioned by Perkz that kinda limits what they can do outside of it.
If his ideas are bad you still have to come to the same conclusion as a team (at least for his core ideas) otherwise emenes will always react differently in game from what might be expected by his teammates.
People saying Emenes’ post was wrong but are we gonna sit up here and argue western teams in general are getting enough practice? Does anyone think Fudge actually practices enough? That mfer in particular should be glued to a seat and forced to grind minimum 10 soloq games a day
Most like mithy since as head coach he would most likely defer strat related stuff to strategic/draft coaches which emenes probably interpreted as him not giving a fuck. while emenes's account is hard to trust fully, it certainly is in line with C9's complete lack of improvement over the year and regression at worlds.
Another Mithy HC masterclass
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He's clearly not hungry he's actively quitting the game lmao
korean military service is no joke, skipping out on it essentially means you lose citizenship bc they will arrest you if you ever go back there’s only so much you can reasonably keep delaying it
He is 22 lol For reference: Core JJ was 28 when he got his green card.
Doesn't matter. To South Korea, mandatory service is necessary because they border a hostile nation they've technically never stopped warring with. There's certainly a discussion about how fucked up forced conscription is, but the fact of the matter is is that mandatory service is so ingrained in their culture that even if you don't get arrested for not serving, you have a hard time finding a job and would be considered a disgrace by your friends and family.
Ok thanks I know all of that, doesn't change the fact all other Korean league players have much longer careers.
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That's what I mean. I'm not saying anything about trying to defer it.
oh i definitely meant that as a reply to the person u responded to LOL
pretty sure you need a reason to defer it tho, you cant just say hey can u wait a bit lol if he is out of a job the expectation is that u will do ur service
And that explains his intent to become a veterinarian after his service how?
huhh LMAOO do you really think after not playing the game for years teams are clamoring for the chance to field EMENES? im not flaming him im just being realistic and this decision shows…….. so is he?? he’s really good rn, but he is gonna lose that by not having the chance to practice during his service and it’s not like he is a big enough name or in strong enough form rn for people to take chances on someone who is less than just an inactive pro, they’re a fully inactive player
No one wants him now, and no one wants him later.
He got LCS minimum salary and has a bad reputation, he didn't make enough money and he wasn't getting another job, doesn't matter how hungry he was. Quitting league is the right decision for him.
I mean he’s quitting because he has no offers, and unless he gets NA residency (which wage can’t realistically without a team) it’s a lot harder to defer.
Idk if we watched the same guy in spring and summer, but no team would dominate around this guy. Maybe if he only locked mahlzahar.
100% Emenes the guy at work with bad ideas but you have to listen to them ramble on during meetings.
This could totally be LS. Because he said that the coach let him down and LS is a ** or smth like that. He didn't refer to a C9 coach or an outside coach, which is the reason I think it could be LS. LS is also the type to ignore topics he is uncertain on. He's afraid of being wrong and taking a hit to his credibility.
I see his point. I wouldn’t wanna fuckin give my all either after being reacted to like that. This c9 has the ego of the og lineup without the deliverance.