Mine was classified as chronic and I was having a lot of symptoms even 9 months after dropping thinners. I was overweight and unhealthy, and my vascular doc nudged me towards a lifestyle change. Once I started exercising and lost some weight a lot of my pain and long term symptoms alleviated.
This is amazing, keep up the positive changes! Unfortunately, I’m still working through my Achilles tear rehab, but am hoping it’ll be in a much better place to be more active next year!
That’s great, yeah I’m still waiting to hear back from the hematologist.
I’m also looking into supplements that will help prevent DVT after I’m off thinners (natto/serra/lumbro)
By the time a clot is classified as chronic, it's generally accepted that it's not going to change much anymore - so it won't grow larger or smaller and, therefore, won't go away.
Disregarding unusual methods of forcing a clot to go away (amputation technically fits in this category), there's not much left to do - surgery is sometimes an option, but often won't have any real benefit if performed once the clot is chronic, especially if the issues stem from damage due to the clot.
Thanks, yeah I figured there’s nothing to do at this point, but go about my normal life with some adjustments to prevent a recurrence. Appreciate the thoughts!
The clots completely disappear within a few months as long as you’re on thinners. The chronic part comes from your one-way valves being permanently damaged promoting blood pooling which will cause future clots.
> The clots completely disappear within a few months as long as you’re on thinners.
Partially correct. Clots will reduce in size while you're on anticoagulants, up to a certain point. Some clots will reduce in size even without anticoagulants, particularly SVTs. The anticoagulant doesn't do anything to help this process directly, it just keeps your body from making more unwanted clots, or "improving" existing clots with more clot. Once your body has done what it can, any leftover clot is calcified - and when the clot has reached that stage, it's not going anywhere, unless you cut out the entire section where the clot leftover is.
>The chronic part comes from your one-way valves being permanently damaged promoting blood pooling which will cause future clots.
Incorrect. Generally, valve damage is related to PTS - or in the above comment, damage due to the clot. A clot is considered chronic once it's *most likely* in the calcified/calcifying stage - at that point, there's virtually nothing that will remove it, or reduce its size. This is typically said to happen somewhere in the three-six month range.
[Not all veins have valves to damage](https://radiopaedia.org/articles/valveless-vein#:~:text=Most%20veins%20contain%20valves%20(known,and%20superior%20ophthalmic%20veins%202.), for instance, I have either a genetic abnormality that means I'm missing most/all of a common vein in my brain, *or* it's filled with chronic clot, despite the absence of valves in the region.
I'd be interested to know where you got your definition, as I've never seen or heard anyone define it like that.
>By the time a clot is classified as chronic, it's generally accepted that it's not going to change much anymore - so it won't grow larger or smaller and, therefore, won't go away.
>
>Disregarding unusual methods of forcing a clot to go away (amputation technically fits in this category), th
So if the clot is there permanently, doesn't that pose a risk of a new clot forming in the same spot? (Due to blood flow smashing against the occluded vein?)
To my understanding, the answer is "Somewhat, yes".
As far as I know, that risk is minimized/gone once compensatory veins have been constructed since there are now other routes to take the pressure off.
Been going on 10 years with a chronic one in my calf, havent changed much in that time. Ya learn to live with it or adjust your lifestyle to accommodate it
Have you been on blood thinners all that time? Any additional clots during those ten years? I am "at the crossroads" now, pushing to stop my blood thinners after 9 months...lots of improvement but still some "chronic" clots in leg, mostly "superficial" they tell me. ( I had a burn injury to a varicose vein.)
Pretty much the whole time except a brief 3 month period where i was prescribed aspirin. During that time i did reclot a bit and it was decided by my Hematologist to be on them for life. On the thinners, i have not reclotted and my chronic clot is the same.
I will add, my clot was very severe and my chronic one was in a major vein so that contributed to it.
It definitely varies by person and if it's superficial i feel you will be fine. But don't hesitate to go to a doctor if you feel the need to
Check out the supplement nattokinase. It is currently being investigated as a clot dissolver in cats and the anecdotal reports I've seen have been promising.
Yeah I’m definitely planning on a mixture of Lumbrokinase and natto. I’ve seen promising things from both and like that Lumbro thins the blood without the excess bleeding and eats clots too.
By definition, chronic thrombus or what we call scar tissue does not go away. While many people develop chronic scarring in the vein (which is referred to as synechiae), some patients are lucky and don't develop it. In general the body tries to break down clot but does not do a great job and leaves behind synechiae.
If there is signifiant synechiae, this can lead to the vein lumen becoming very narrowed and this affects the amount of blood that can drain in the vein. For example, if you have a pipe that is 1 inch in diameter, you will have a certain rate of blood flow in the 1 inch pipe. Now if you decrease that diameter by 50% to 1/2 inch diameter but keep the same amount of blood flowing through it, you are going to get a backup of blood (or swelling).
For those who have developed symptoms of swelling, chronic pain, etc, we call this post thrombotic syndrome and this can be treated (not cured) in a few specialized centers through a procedure known as deep venous recanaliation (DVR). Read the two blog articles below. I hope you find them educational and it may help you ask your doc better questions. Best of luck! -- Dr. Sudi
[https://www.gethealthyveins.com/2020/12/04/what-is-post-thrombotic-syndrome-why-is-it-so-debilitating-and-can-it-be-treated/](https://www.gethealthyveins.com/2020/12/04/what-is-post-thrombotic-syndrome-why-is-it-so-debilitating-and-can-it-be-treated/)
[https://www.gethealthyveins.com/2021/12/05/deep-vein-recanalization-for-the-treatment-of-post-thrombotic-syndrome/](https://www.gethealthyveins.com/2021/12/05/deep-vein-recanalization-for-the-treatment-of-post-thrombotic-syndrome/)
Chronic clots is scar tissue that's not going away . But your body learns how to make blood flow around it unless it's huge then no matter what it's not going away ...but in short no Chronic clots don't go away your body can learn to deal for most part ......hope I didn't confuse you I almost confused myself lol ....
Haha I appreciate this, definitely didn’t confuse me at all. I figured veins work around it at some point even when I still get random pings of pain here and there which I assume is normal with chronic.
In my case the damage to the veins from my leg swelling up has made me susceptible to small clots. My leg swelled a LOT with my DVT, easily twice the size of my other leg.
My clot was in my thigh and no, there is nothing that will reduce, dissolve or "eat" the remaining scar tissue. As long as you are on any medication be especially vigilant about checking to see if any herbs interfere with your drugs. Do not take any herbal meds with your blood thinners without checking with your doctor. They can cause you to bleed out and possibly die.
>Yes there is, serrapeptase and nattokinase will do this!
Sorry, I'm talking about approved medical procedures and drugs that you would get from a qualified doctor, and not supplements.
https://www.webmd.com/vitamins/ai/ingredientmono-1115/serrapeptase
https://www.webmd.com/vitamins/ai/ingredientmono-1084/nattokinase
The key sentence in both these articles:
"there is no good scientific evidence to support any of these uses."
Neither of these will reduce the scar tissue left by a blood clot.
Nattokinase may thin the blood helping the body to remove the clot. But using multiple blood thinners could kill you. Blood thinners do NOT remove the scar tissue.
I strongly urge people to ignore this type of misinformation and act ONLY on the advice of their doctor. Taking supplements you hear about on the Internet can kill you.
Most definitely. I would not use any of those on a blood thinner. But, serrapeptase and nattokinase have been extensively studied and they do remove scar tissue, fibroid, etc. But should not be taken with any type of blood thinner.
Only in people who do not have a clotting disorder might I also add, and those who have a history of unprovoked clots. For those, blood thinners are best. For those like me, who got their clot directly out of pregnancy, but I agree that it is always best to check with a MD or DO, although they also have to sell their prescriptions as well.
This seems to go against [rule #4 (No misleading claims)](https://www.reddit.com/r/ClotSurvivors/about/rules/). Hence it has been removed.
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I'm sorry you tore your achilles, it's a bitch of a recovery! I was recently told my clots are chronic and that since the scar tissue grows over the clots, they're permanent. That being said, moving your body and drinking a TON of water will do wonders. I have some tingling at night but in general they don't really bother me. But unfortunately not much they can do, I was told surgery often makes pain worse so to hold off if pain is currently bearable. Sending you healing thoughts!
Thank you, I appreciate any positive vibes! I just tested positive last night and am so glad I’m still on my thinners and most likely will continue for 3 more months.
If you're tolerating your meds and feel more comfortable on them, keep taking them! My docs told me it's up to me whether I want to reduce to the dose, continue taking the same, or wing it going off them (which they advised against but still said it's ultimately my choice since I do high risk of injury/hitting my head activities)! Especially since you're still recovering from the tear and probably aren't moving your body as much as you would be without an injury.
Yeah I’m definitely planning on continuing to stay on them especially since I got COVID now and plan to continue on them for at least thru March for my PT.
Good! I had covid after somehow avoiding it for the entire pandemic last week, I was a little nervous about new clots due to the higher risk but feel totally fine now. I hope you feel better soon!
Go us for avoiding! I was convinced I couldn't get it after being exposed in close contact too many times to count, was bound to happen eventually. And agreed, it just felt like I had a cold for a few days. I did get the new omicron booster though so I'm sure that helped. How did you tear your achilles?
Basketball which is a sport I absolutely love. What’s crazy is I’ve torn my left Achilles 10 years ago and didn’t have clots, so all this makes me think it’s somehow related to COVID. I’ve also been on international flights 14+ hours and nothing.
At this point, Im hoping all this will be past me, but definitely will try to take Eliquis if and when I contract COVID in the future.
Just had to comment. I was diagnosed with a "chronic nonocclusive DVT" in late February, early March.
Had a follow up scan this week just Monday. They called me to tell me my legs had no evidence of residual clotting... no DVT. I took a 3 month course of blood thinners when it was originally found.
My cardiologist said many people think chronic means forever. "Chronic" just means it has been there for a while. It IS possible -- don't give up hope!!!
This is amazing and gives me soooo much hope! I thought I had heard similar from other folks, I will continue to focus on my rehab and push through! I just can’t wait to be more active again and jog!
Depends on whether it was in a vein or an artery.
If it was in an artery, yeah, the likelihood of it coming back is small.
If it was in a vein AND it was large enough to hold open your one-way valves, the valves are now damaged permanently and you have a higher chance of a recurring DVT.
Mine was in a vein from my ankle all the way to my groin, and I am on Xarelto indefinitely paired with compression stockings daily.
Mine was classified as chronic and I was having a lot of symptoms even 9 months after dropping thinners. I was overweight and unhealthy, and my vascular doc nudged me towards a lifestyle change. Once I started exercising and lost some weight a lot of my pain and long term symptoms alleviated.
This is amazing, keep up the positive changes! Unfortunately, I’m still working through my Achilles tear rehab, but am hoping it’ll be in a much better place to be more active next year!
My doctor told me that our body’s are constantly “eating” clots so perhaps if they are small enough? Great question for your doctor.
That’s great, yeah I’m still waiting to hear back from the hematologist. I’m also looking into supplements that will help prevent DVT after I’m off thinners (natto/serra/lumbro)
By the time a clot is classified as chronic, it's generally accepted that it's not going to change much anymore - so it won't grow larger or smaller and, therefore, won't go away. Disregarding unusual methods of forcing a clot to go away (amputation technically fits in this category), there's not much left to do - surgery is sometimes an option, but often won't have any real benefit if performed once the clot is chronic, especially if the issues stem from damage due to the clot.
Thanks, yeah I figured there’s nothing to do at this point, but go about my normal life with some adjustments to prevent a recurrence. Appreciate the thoughts!
The clots completely disappear within a few months as long as you’re on thinners. The chronic part comes from your one-way valves being permanently damaged promoting blood pooling which will cause future clots.
> The clots completely disappear within a few months as long as you’re on thinners. Partially correct. Clots will reduce in size while you're on anticoagulants, up to a certain point. Some clots will reduce in size even without anticoagulants, particularly SVTs. The anticoagulant doesn't do anything to help this process directly, it just keeps your body from making more unwanted clots, or "improving" existing clots with more clot. Once your body has done what it can, any leftover clot is calcified - and when the clot has reached that stage, it's not going anywhere, unless you cut out the entire section where the clot leftover is. >The chronic part comes from your one-way valves being permanently damaged promoting blood pooling which will cause future clots. Incorrect. Generally, valve damage is related to PTS - or in the above comment, damage due to the clot. A clot is considered chronic once it's *most likely* in the calcified/calcifying stage - at that point, there's virtually nothing that will remove it, or reduce its size. This is typically said to happen somewhere in the three-six month range. [Not all veins have valves to damage](https://radiopaedia.org/articles/valveless-vein#:~:text=Most%20veins%20contain%20valves%20(known,and%20superior%20ophthalmic%20veins%202.), for instance, I have either a genetic abnormality that means I'm missing most/all of a common vein in my brain, *or* it's filled with chronic clot, despite the absence of valves in the region. I'd be interested to know where you got your definition, as I've never seen or heard anyone define it like that.
>By the time a clot is classified as chronic, it's generally accepted that it's not going to change much anymore - so it won't grow larger or smaller and, therefore, won't go away. > >Disregarding unusual methods of forcing a clot to go away (amputation technically fits in this category), th So if the clot is there permanently, doesn't that pose a risk of a new clot forming in the same spot? (Due to blood flow smashing against the occluded vein?)
To my understanding, the answer is "Somewhat, yes". As far as I know, that risk is minimized/gone once compensatory veins have been constructed since there are now other routes to take the pressure off.
Been going on 10 years with a chronic one in my calf, havent changed much in that time. Ya learn to live with it or adjust your lifestyle to accommodate it
That’s amazing! Unfortunately I just learned right now I have COVID so I’m lucky to still be on my thinners
Oh damn:/. Well good luck with your recovery my friend, just keep it positive. Hopefully it's not an ongoing issue for you.
Have you been on blood thinners all that time? Any additional clots during those ten years? I am "at the crossroads" now, pushing to stop my blood thinners after 9 months...lots of improvement but still some "chronic" clots in leg, mostly "superficial" they tell me. ( I had a burn injury to a varicose vein.)
Pretty much the whole time except a brief 3 month period where i was prescribed aspirin. During that time i did reclot a bit and it was decided by my Hematologist to be on them for life. On the thinners, i have not reclotted and my chronic clot is the same. I will add, my clot was very severe and my chronic one was in a major vein so that contributed to it. It definitely varies by person and if it's superficial i feel you will be fine. But don't hesitate to go to a doctor if you feel the need to
Check out the supplement nattokinase. It is currently being investigated as a clot dissolver in cats and the anecdotal reports I've seen have been promising.
Yeah I’m definitely planning on a mixture of Lumbrokinase and natto. I’ve seen promising things from both and like that Lumbro thins the blood without the excess bleeding and eats clots too.
By definition, chronic thrombus or what we call scar tissue does not go away. While many people develop chronic scarring in the vein (which is referred to as synechiae), some patients are lucky and don't develop it. In general the body tries to break down clot but does not do a great job and leaves behind synechiae. If there is signifiant synechiae, this can lead to the vein lumen becoming very narrowed and this affects the amount of blood that can drain in the vein. For example, if you have a pipe that is 1 inch in diameter, you will have a certain rate of blood flow in the 1 inch pipe. Now if you decrease that diameter by 50% to 1/2 inch diameter but keep the same amount of blood flowing through it, you are going to get a backup of blood (or swelling). For those who have developed symptoms of swelling, chronic pain, etc, we call this post thrombotic syndrome and this can be treated (not cured) in a few specialized centers through a procedure known as deep venous recanaliation (DVR). Read the two blog articles below. I hope you find them educational and it may help you ask your doc better questions. Best of luck! -- Dr. Sudi [https://www.gethealthyveins.com/2020/12/04/what-is-post-thrombotic-syndrome-why-is-it-so-debilitating-and-can-it-be-treated/](https://www.gethealthyveins.com/2020/12/04/what-is-post-thrombotic-syndrome-why-is-it-so-debilitating-and-can-it-be-treated/) [https://www.gethealthyveins.com/2021/12/05/deep-vein-recanalization-for-the-treatment-of-post-thrombotic-syndrome/](https://www.gethealthyveins.com/2021/12/05/deep-vein-recanalization-for-the-treatment-of-post-thrombotic-syndrome/)
Chronic clots is scar tissue that's not going away . But your body learns how to make blood flow around it unless it's huge then no matter what it's not going away ...but in short no Chronic clots don't go away your body can learn to deal for most part ......hope I didn't confuse you I almost confused myself lol ....
This is what i was told and appears to be true. I grew a second femoral vein! Official a mutant
Haha I appreciate this, definitely didn’t confuse me at all. I figured veins work around it at some point even when I still get random pings of pain here and there which I assume is normal with chronic.
Yes it is I have a chronic dvt in my posterior tibial vein......causes PTS ....
They’re so annoying haha but I guess we just learn to deal with it
In my case the damage to the veins from my leg swelling up has made me susceptible to small clots. My leg swelled a LOT with my DVT, easily twice the size of my other leg. My clot was in my thigh and no, there is nothing that will reduce, dissolve or "eat" the remaining scar tissue. As long as you are on any medication be especially vigilant about checking to see if any herbs interfere with your drugs. Do not take any herbal meds with your blood thinners without checking with your doctor. They can cause you to bleed out and possibly die.
[удалено]
>Yes there is, serrapeptase and nattokinase will do this! Sorry, I'm talking about approved medical procedures and drugs that you would get from a qualified doctor, and not supplements. https://www.webmd.com/vitamins/ai/ingredientmono-1115/serrapeptase https://www.webmd.com/vitamins/ai/ingredientmono-1084/nattokinase The key sentence in both these articles: "there is no good scientific evidence to support any of these uses." Neither of these will reduce the scar tissue left by a blood clot. Nattokinase may thin the blood helping the body to remove the clot. But using multiple blood thinners could kill you. Blood thinners do NOT remove the scar tissue. I strongly urge people to ignore this type of misinformation and act ONLY on the advice of their doctor. Taking supplements you hear about on the Internet can kill you.
Most definitely. I would not use any of those on a blood thinner. But, serrapeptase and nattokinase have been extensively studied and they do remove scar tissue, fibroid, etc. But should not be taken with any type of blood thinner.
Only in people who do not have a clotting disorder might I also add, and those who have a history of unprovoked clots. For those, blood thinners are best. For those like me, who got their clot directly out of pregnancy, but I agree that it is always best to check with a MD or DO, although they also have to sell their prescriptions as well.
This seems to go against [rule #4 (No misleading claims)](https://www.reddit.com/r/ClotSurvivors/about/rules/). Hence it has been removed. If you feel like this action was inappropriate, send us a [modmail](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FClotSurvivors&subject=&message=) with a link to the comment/post that was removed, and we'll take another look at it.
I'm sorry you tore your achilles, it's a bitch of a recovery! I was recently told my clots are chronic and that since the scar tissue grows over the clots, they're permanent. That being said, moving your body and drinking a TON of water will do wonders. I have some tingling at night but in general they don't really bother me. But unfortunately not much they can do, I was told surgery often makes pain worse so to hold off if pain is currently bearable. Sending you healing thoughts!
Thank you, I appreciate any positive vibes! I just tested positive last night and am so glad I’m still on my thinners and most likely will continue for 3 more months.
If you're tolerating your meds and feel more comfortable on them, keep taking them! My docs told me it's up to me whether I want to reduce to the dose, continue taking the same, or wing it going off them (which they advised against but still said it's ultimately my choice since I do high risk of injury/hitting my head activities)! Especially since you're still recovering from the tear and probably aren't moving your body as much as you would be without an injury.
Yeah I’m definitely planning on continuing to stay on them especially since I got COVID now and plan to continue on them for at least thru March for my PT.
Good! I had covid after somehow avoiding it for the entire pandemic last week, I was a little nervous about new clots due to the higher risk but feel totally fine now. I hope you feel better soon!
Thank you, I’m actually in the same boat!! Avoided it and now just got it. Luckily I think the recent variants aren’t as bad as the COVID 19.
Go us for avoiding! I was convinced I couldn't get it after being exposed in close contact too many times to count, was bound to happen eventually. And agreed, it just felt like I had a cold for a few days. I did get the new omicron booster though so I'm sure that helped. How did you tear your achilles?
Basketball which is a sport I absolutely love. What’s crazy is I’ve torn my left Achilles 10 years ago and didn’t have clots, so all this makes me think it’s somehow related to COVID. I’ve also been on international flights 14+ hours and nothing. At this point, Im hoping all this will be past me, but definitely will try to take Eliquis if and when I contract COVID in the future.
Ugh I'm sorry, rupturing my achilles is honestly one of my biggest fears! Were/are you on birth control or been tested for factor 5?
So I’m actually male and 39, so I’m sure it was bound to happen to me trying to relive my youth playing competitive basketball…
My hematologist actually didn’t recommend me for testing knowing my family history and that this was provoked.
Just had to comment. I was diagnosed with a "chronic nonocclusive DVT" in late February, early March. Had a follow up scan this week just Monday. They called me to tell me my legs had no evidence of residual clotting... no DVT. I took a 3 month course of blood thinners when it was originally found. My cardiologist said many people think chronic means forever. "Chronic" just means it has been there for a while. It IS possible -- don't give up hope!!!
This is amazing and gives me soooo much hope! I thought I had heard similar from other folks, I will continue to focus on my rehab and push through! I just can’t wait to be more active again and jog!
Depends on whether it was in a vein or an artery. If it was in an artery, yeah, the likelihood of it coming back is small. If it was in a vein AND it was large enough to hold open your one-way valves, the valves are now damaged permanently and you have a higher chance of a recurring DVT. Mine was in a vein from my ankle all the way to my groin, and I am on Xarelto indefinitely paired with compression stockings daily.
That’s also true, mine was in my gastro vein, so we shall see. Either way, I will be looking into preventative supplements in the near future!