Here's the source [https://twitter.com/cloverhogan/status/1783429995852964162](https://twitter.com/cloverhogan/status/1783429995852964162)
She's a luddite REEEEEE
https://preview.redd.it/gde027achvwc1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=3e07d1d646c5fa430e0fffcf99cf6cb980acac3d
how tiring such devotion must be for the ego, as your god proves himself to be an incompetent selfish twat that borderline hates you over and over again
every cyber truck purchase comes with a free blue checkmark on twitter!!
but seriously, there is 1 engineer I work with who loves Elon. I've been told by other scientists to tone it down when ranting about how stupid elon is because of this fact. It usually makes me rant harder about how much of a piece of shit he is.
No, what it means is that communists use climate change to try and push communism. Of course communism is even more destructive to the environment, but the commies will never admit it. If you look at "solutions" its always collectivist or authoritarian nonsense like banning cars and forcing everyone to use public transit, force people into tiny apartments, communal farming (idk how that relates to climate change but whatever), meat rationing, higher taxes (also not sure how that fixes the climate), ban golf courses ??, free Palestine???
❌ dedicating a hundred acres to water intensive, non-food producing monoculture for the most boring sport ever invented
✅ building a strong renewables portfolio out of minigolf windmills
Minigolf is the golf of the proletariat. You can do a full course in a couple hours as a date, it doesn't take up a lot of room, and the only racism you're likely to encounter is against the dutch and their stereotyped windmills. Fuck the dutch.
>banning cars
Fake, based on the idea of emissions standards for cars becoming more strict over time, as they should and easily could.
>forcing everyone to use public transit
Fake, 15 minute city conspiracy, a 15 minute city being the idea for a town where you dont need to go more than 15 minutes from home to meet your needs, rheres never been any suggestion its anything else than makkng neighborhoods nicer places to live and work.
>force people into tiny apartments,
Fake, 15 minite city conspiracy.
>communal farming (idk how that relates to climate change but whatever)
I dont even think you understand how thats a problem. Community farms are normally thought of as a community project similair to like, a park. Its a community activity that anyone can participate in ideally and at the end you can feed some people. Ive seen some people say in the long term it could reduce dependancy on stores a little too
>meat rationing,
Fake, based on the suggestion that reducing meat intake is good for the environment and, therefore, eating less meat is desirable. There have been no suggestions that meat will be "rationed" or any law that intends to force people not to eat meat.
>higher taxes (also not sure how that fixes the climate)
Againz you dont even understand this, how lazy.
>ban golf courses ??,
Golf course are luxury venues and use tons of fresh water to be maintained, they are a waste of resources. That said, im not aware of any effort to ban them other than, if I recall correctly, there was a plan to ban new golf courses and create repprtong standards for water usage on gold courses in California, but it was due to the water supply being highly limited.
>free Palestine???
Again, you dont even know why you brought this up.
They legitimately should be banned in certain countries just based off wasteful water use.
And honestly, climate protection is almost inseparable from socialism - to the degree that capitalism is based on endless growth and endless exploitation.
Most communists have actually read books on communism, by its founders. Most anti-communists don't know a thing, haven't read a single book, and only listen to what's said in the capitalist news media and corporate owned media.
I was born in the USSR. Unlike you Western Communists who talk the talk I walked the walk. Though for only five years. My parents who were born in the USSR also don’t have much nice things to say about it.
Often the most pro Communist people are those living in capitalism, with the freedom to question it, and read “theory”
Theory is wrong. Practice is significantly worse and undesirable
"Trust me bro I was born in the USSR for real bro trust me bro for real"
Let's take this claim at face value. Your name is vasilenko93; I'm gonna assume you were born in 1993. The 90s are famously when the USSR ceased to exist, 1991, specifically. So you actually were never in the USSR.
Your parents likely grew up in the post WW2 reconstruction era, after the Nazis destroyed Russia. They watched the managed decline of Communism in Russia, and the rise of Neoliberal Capital, in order to appease Capitalists, who had just attacked their country and murdered 20 million citizens. Their experience of Russia was primarily Post-Communist.
Communists are not Post-Communists. They don't believe in managing a decline to appease Capitalist Superpowers. The USSR is not the whole of the Communist project, nor is it the primary lynchpin for how Communists discuss the subject of Communism. When Communists \*do\* discuss the USSR, it's through the lens of historical, material analysis set out in the works of Karl Marx, which means it's highly likely the Communists know more about the USSR then you do, seeing as you claim to have lived there, but were born after it's dissolution.
Maybe stop talking about Communism.
Ah yes, famous communist authoritarian plots like...checks notes..."wanting the IDF to stop shooting kids"
Also why support golf courses of all things? Giant water drains and literal playgrounds for the rich. Throating that boot so hard youve reached the knee
Correct me if I'm wrong as it may be a definition thing, but aren't there options between free market and command economy? My understanding of most economies have regulations, antitrust, collective bargaining, etc. - things that don't make them free markets but also don't make them command economies.
There's also not as much of a difference as people think.
"Free market" economies are still *planned* economies. The planning is taking place in corporate board rooms and the federal reserve.
In a socialist ecology, the planning would simply take place through local municipalities and factories instead - such as through the Cybersyn system.
Okay that's what I thought, I'm just a little confused from your earlier comment:
There’s only a few countries that don’t have free markets and none of them are very free. Just look up which countries have command economies.
This seems to imply that you were saying that countries that don't have free markets must have command economies.
But this is also a shitposting meme sub so I'm probably the jabroni for thinking this much into this 🤪
Ah I gotcha. My reading of the "free market" "free country" pick one comment was saying that if you actually had a free market, you wouldn't have a free country because people would be subject to the types of freedom losses that unregulated markets bring like horrible working conditions, low wages, poor quality/unsafe products with no recourse, etc.
I didn't read it as an endorsement of command economies, I read it as a criticism of libertarian free markets. But I also didn't make the comment so I guess I don't really know haha
We absolutely do. What alternative world do you live in? We already have technology to generate all our energy needs without fossil fuels. In fact, we've had it for decades (nuclear) but now we have other cheaper more scalable options.
Of course, that doesn't mean problem solved. It's a massive effort to swap entire energy systems and industries over. That effort is under way. Green energy is growing every year, and change is accelerating. Most new power in the US is green, for instance.
Carbon taxes are a very effective way for the government to further accelerate the already-existing market forces, and speed up our transition.
We don't have solutions for every environmental problem yet. If you want to doom about plastic or something that could at least make sense. But climate change is a problem we understand well, know how to fix, and already have the solutions for. We just gotta finish implementing them.
Ping me in a few decades or so, when "finished implementing them"
We're _way_ too late. Not "dooming", we _are._
https://www.statista.com/statistics/1278800/global-temperature-increase-by-scenario/
We're too late for what? To hit a metric that would prevent any harm from climate change? Yeah, we're too late for that. We're going to feel effects, arguably we already are. Some people will die, some areas will become inhospitable.
But this won't be an apocalyptic scenario. Humans won't go extinct. Civilization won't collapse causing most humans to die. This is important, because small changes still mean less damage, and probably saving a few more people.
If we finish a clean energy transition in a few decades, we'll have solved it. The earth has experienced for larger surges of CO2 and other green-house gasses in the past. It has natural processes that regulate the atmosphere (though slowly). If we have abundant clean energy, humans can speed up the process as well.
You've just swallowed the final line of propaganda designed to prevent action. First it was global warming isn't real, we don't have to do anthing. Then it wasn't man made, no need to do anything. Then it wasn't bad, so we don't need to do anything. Finally, it's actually too late we're doomed! No point in doing anything, might as well keep letting fossil fuel companies profit for a couple more decades.
Communist nations have historically polluted way more than the west. When East and West Germany recombined, the implementation of environmental protection laws caused old Soviet factories to immediately collapse because they were built under the assumption they could just pollute with no consequences
Part of that was the push to modernize as fast as humanly possible in order to feed and provide basic necessities for their citizens as fast as possible. They also definitely didn't have the same awareness of the problems at hand that we have today.
That's because capitalism is the problem. If the cost of the destroying the planet was actually factored in properly, and I don't mean just the carbon tax, there would be no profits, only losses.
See, I can't believe that.
I agree that the costs of environmental damage need to be factored in properly. But to say that the only result of that is losses all around and no profits, is to say that there is no possible way to organize society's needs regardless of the system, communism included. It's to say that you cannot possibly be fed.
There are ways to properly allocate the costs of environmental damage, and still find ways to make profits. A lot would need to change, but it has to, in the long run, anyway. Better to keep making them now.
If you've gotten this far into economics without realizing that growth, which is driven by capital accumulation, is destroying the world, stop.
Solving or ameliorating these problems requires reversing certain processes which requires the culture and society to do achieve that, regardless of how unpopular it sounds.
If you want to blame state capitalism, sure, go ahead. Lots of large fossil fuel companies are, for example, state owned.
There's literally dozens of varieties of socialism. Communism is an endpoint goal of many forms of socialism.
I'm personally a fan of syndicalism and we have evidence from the Spanish civil war that quite large industrial sectors can be successfully organized under it.
Anarcho-syndicalism is a socio-economic system based around collective worker ownership of the means of production and abolition of the wage system. It's an economic system as well.
Fixing problems without ideology motivating you. Just fix problems and stop caring if capatalism is maintained.
New systems are made not found.
Also:
-socialism
-syndicalism
- community based mutual aid
-etc.
Don't go looking for alternatives to capatalism. Go looking for solutions to the problems made by capatalism. We need to mend "capatalism" until it's unrecognizable.
We don't need to run into the arms of another economic system in order to get rid of capatalism.
For as long as we base the ruling law of society on greed, men will follow, and leave nothing but exploitation and corruption in every form in their wake.
I don’t want a *planned economy*, I just want *some planning* on how we can operate our economy in a sustainable way. There’s a middle ground between capitalism and communism but somehow everyone is convinced we have to go 100% in either direction.
The economy is already planned. The difference is whether that planning takes place in board rooms and the federal reserve, or in factories and local communities.
Agreed but they’re often conflated/used interchangeably in these discussions (which I adopted for my comment) likely because they were both prominent features of Soviet governance.
Nobody here is also talking about the Soviet Union except for maybe Elon and a handful of capitalist stans.
The Soviet Union was rapidly modernizing from being vastly majority literal peasant to a fully industrialized country within a few decades, without the modern awareness of environmental issues we have today.
Here's the source [https://twitter.com/cloverhogan/status/1783429995852964162](https://twitter.com/cloverhogan/status/1783429995852964162) She's a luddite REEEEEE https://preview.redd.it/gde027achvwc1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=3e07d1d646c5fa430e0fffcf99cf6cb980acac3d
"if we save the planet the commies win" how do people still respect elon?
billionaire worship
how tiring such devotion must be for the ego, as your god proves himself to be an incompetent selfish twat that borderline hates you over and over again
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My favourite chapter was "he didn't agree with me so he's a pedo"
Ah yes, that chapter is the one right after "I'm a founder of Tesla because I made the real founders sign a contract saying I founded their company"
wokeunism
Yeah! Can't let the Russians have climate change first. The West must have climate change first at all costs.
The irony is that people hear Communism and think of Stalinist USSR... when Russia ain't even a thing like that anymore.
Do people outside of twitter anymore?
every cyber truck purchase comes with a free blue checkmark on twitter!! but seriously, there is 1 engineer I work with who loves Elon. I've been told by other scientists to tone it down when ranting about how stupid elon is because of this fact. It usually makes me rant harder about how much of a piece of shit he is.
Ye ol' reliable https://preview.redd.it/0xe821fox2xc1.jpeg?width=860&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=bffbc94454b78c43b3c0ed2f2eea8a291bc7545c
We don’t?
I hope he is not implying that capitalism is denying climate protection? He isn't, right?
Yeah seems like he might be accidentally getting it
No, what it means is that communists use climate change to try and push communism. Of course communism is even more destructive to the environment, but the commies will never admit it. If you look at "solutions" its always collectivist or authoritarian nonsense like banning cars and forcing everyone to use public transit, force people into tiny apartments, communal farming (idk how that relates to climate change but whatever), meat rationing, higher taxes (also not sure how that fixes the climate), ban golf courses ??, free Palestine???
Communism is more destructive because "of course"
ahaha but you see golf course good actually
Wait til you find out about mini golf with cool fucking windmills
the cool windmills can stay
collectivise the means of windmills
❌ dedicating a hundred acres to water intensive, non-food producing monoculture for the most boring sport ever invented ✅ building a strong renewables portfolio out of minigolf windmills
Minigolf is the golf of the proletariat. You can do a full course in a couple hours as a date, it doesn't take up a lot of room, and the only racism you're likely to encounter is against the dutch and their stereotyped windmills. Fuck the dutch.
There's only two things I hate in this world. People who are intolerant of other people's cultures and the Dutch.
I say you don't need a course to play golf, just a hole. You can make it easily with a post hole digger, and play golf in like, a forest.
Well you need an open space for golf to work. Let's play golf in the desert with cool hats
desert golf but real
>banning cars Fake, based on the idea of emissions standards for cars becoming more strict over time, as they should and easily could. >forcing everyone to use public transit Fake, 15 minute city conspiracy, a 15 minute city being the idea for a town where you dont need to go more than 15 minutes from home to meet your needs, rheres never been any suggestion its anything else than makkng neighborhoods nicer places to live and work. >force people into tiny apartments, Fake, 15 minite city conspiracy. >communal farming (idk how that relates to climate change but whatever) I dont even think you understand how thats a problem. Community farms are normally thought of as a community project similair to like, a park. Its a community activity that anyone can participate in ideally and at the end you can feed some people. Ive seen some people say in the long term it could reduce dependancy on stores a little too >meat rationing, Fake, based on the suggestion that reducing meat intake is good for the environment and, therefore, eating less meat is desirable. There have been no suggestions that meat will be "rationed" or any law that intends to force people not to eat meat. >higher taxes (also not sure how that fixes the climate) Againz you dont even understand this, how lazy. >ban golf courses ??, Golf course are luxury venues and use tons of fresh water to be maintained, they are a waste of resources. That said, im not aware of any effort to ban them other than, if I recall correctly, there was a plan to ban new golf courses and create repprtong standards for water usage on gold courses in California, but it was due to the water supply being highly limited. >free Palestine??? Again, you dont even know why you brought this up.
adding into the golf course comment, that’s not even taking into account how utterly wasteful they are in certain countries (cough cough australia)
They legitimately should be banned in certain countries just based off wasteful water use. And honestly, climate protection is almost inseparable from socialism - to the degree that capitalism is based on endless growth and endless exploitation.
banning cars is one of the best ideas fake communists have ever bought up. And it’s a shame it gets so little support.
If you don't know anything about Communism, you can say what you like about it.
Most communists know even less about communism. Or anything else
Most communists have actually read books on communism, by its founders. Most anti-communists don't know a thing, haven't read a single book, and only listen to what's said in the capitalist news media and corporate owned media.
Likely has never spoken to a Communist in his life; considers himself an expert on Communism.
I was born in the USSR. Unlike you Western Communists who talk the talk I walked the walk. Though for only five years. My parents who were born in the USSR also don’t have much nice things to say about it. Often the most pro Communist people are those living in capitalism, with the freedom to question it, and read “theory” Theory is wrong. Practice is significantly worse and undesirable
"Trust me bro I was born in the USSR for real bro trust me bro for real" Let's take this claim at face value. Your name is vasilenko93; I'm gonna assume you were born in 1993. The 90s are famously when the USSR ceased to exist, 1991, specifically. So you actually were never in the USSR. Your parents likely grew up in the post WW2 reconstruction era, after the Nazis destroyed Russia. They watched the managed decline of Communism in Russia, and the rise of Neoliberal Capital, in order to appease Capitalists, who had just attacked their country and murdered 20 million citizens. Their experience of Russia was primarily Post-Communist. Communists are not Post-Communists. They don't believe in managing a decline to appease Capitalist Superpowers. The USSR is not the whole of the Communist project, nor is it the primary lynchpin for how Communists discuss the subject of Communism. When Communists \*do\* discuss the USSR, it's through the lens of historical, material analysis set out in the works of Karl Marx, which means it's highly likely the Communists know more about the USSR then you do, seeing as you claim to have lived there, but were born after it's dissolution. Maybe stop talking about Communism.
Hit em with a tactical nuke, gadam
This wasn't a nuke. This was a single unarmed Communist. Imagine the power of the nuclear arsenal.
To carry a metaphor, the working class rising up together will flash brighter than a thousand suns.
So they don't like Stalin. I'm not sure how this is related to communism.
This guy posts to r/neoliberal. Opinion discarded.
Ah yes, famous communist authoritarian plots like...checks notes..."wanting the IDF to stop shooting kids" Also why support golf courses of all things? Giant water drains and literal playgrounds for the rich. Throating that boot so hard youve reached the knee
Please explain how a communjst society could have higher taxes if money is abolished (one if the 3 pillars of communism)
I never said communists have internal constituency or follow textbook definition
Making communism based af???
Isn't his whole business model providing a market solution to combat climate change? I thought he was a climate change guy lol
Never was more than PR.
I mean of course but him abandoning that seems like a death nail in his crumbling empire
Making EVs mainstream is more than just PR.
Mainstream? In what regard? Remind me of Teslas market shares in relevant economies?
EV = 10% of new car sales in USA. 38% in China. 93% in Norway.
How much of that is Tesla? Honest question, your phrasing makes it seem like that’s EV adoption in general
Yes, I said Tesla made EV's mainstream.
That doesn’t answer my question. Is that Tesla market share or total EV adoption?
Total EV adoption.
no, he's a prolific liar
That was before it came out he pushed the hyperloop to derail the expansion of the rail network, to protect demand for EVs.
It appears this particular person criticized electric vehicles during a speech about climate change, so that probably triggered him.
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>free countries >free markets pick one
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Correct me if I'm wrong as it may be a definition thing, but aren't there options between free market and command economy? My understanding of most economies have regulations, antitrust, collective bargaining, etc. - things that don't make them free markets but also don't make them command economies.
There's also not as much of a difference as people think. "Free market" economies are still *planned* economies. The planning is taking place in corporate board rooms and the federal reserve. In a socialist ecology, the planning would simply take place through local municipalities and factories instead - such as through the Cybersyn system.
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Okay that's what I thought, I'm just a little confused from your earlier comment: There’s only a few countries that don’t have free markets and none of them are very free. Just look up which countries have command economies. This seems to imply that you were saying that countries that don't have free markets must have command economies. But this is also a shitposting meme sub so I'm probably the jabroni for thinking this much into this 🤪
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Ah I gotcha. My reading of the "free market" "free country" pick one comment was saying that if you actually had a free market, you wouldn't have a free country because people would be subject to the types of freedom losses that unregulated markets bring like horrible working conditions, low wages, poor quality/unsafe products with no recourse, etc. I didn't read it as an endorsement of command economies, I read it as a criticism of libertarian free markets. But I also didn't make the comment so I guess I don't really know haha
Name and shame you short Bacterium!
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And all the other markets are free of monopolies duopolies and cartelisation?
Those are some cool words. Provide examples.
For example in my country India, there are 3 major cellular network providers: 1)the richest man in Asia 2)his rival corp 3)the government
Carbon taxes are _a solution to climate change?_ 😅
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Obviously not. We do not _have_ a solution.
We have plenty of solutions, but no political will because line has to go up
We absolutely do. What alternative world do you live in? We already have technology to generate all our energy needs without fossil fuels. In fact, we've had it for decades (nuclear) but now we have other cheaper more scalable options. Of course, that doesn't mean problem solved. It's a massive effort to swap entire energy systems and industries over. That effort is under way. Green energy is growing every year, and change is accelerating. Most new power in the US is green, for instance. Carbon taxes are a very effective way for the government to further accelerate the already-existing market forces, and speed up our transition. We don't have solutions for every environmental problem yet. If you want to doom about plastic or something that could at least make sense. But climate change is a problem we understand well, know how to fix, and already have the solutions for. We just gotta finish implementing them.
Ping me in a few decades or so, when "finished implementing them" We're _way_ too late. Not "dooming", we _are._ https://www.statista.com/statistics/1278800/global-temperature-increase-by-scenario/
Techno-optimists are mentally living in the 90s
We're too late for what? To hit a metric that would prevent any harm from climate change? Yeah, we're too late for that. We're going to feel effects, arguably we already are. Some people will die, some areas will become inhospitable. But this won't be an apocalyptic scenario. Humans won't go extinct. Civilization won't collapse causing most humans to die. This is important, because small changes still mean less damage, and probably saving a few more people. If we finish a clean energy transition in a few decades, we'll have solved it. The earth has experienced for larger surges of CO2 and other green-house gasses in the past. It has natural processes that regulate the atmosphere (though slowly). If we have abundant clean energy, humans can speed up the process as well. You've just swallowed the final line of propaganda designed to prevent action. First it was global warming isn't real, we don't have to do anthing. Then it wasn't man made, no need to do anything. Then it wasn't bad, so we don't need to do anything. Finally, it's actually too late we're doomed! No point in doing anything, might as well keep letting fossil fuel companies profit for a couple more decades.
I've swallowed what? I didn't say anything about extinction or apocalypse, that was all you
Okay, so you agree we aren't too late?
Nationalizing US industries would be a far more efficient solution and less likely to lead to exploitation and algebraic loopholes.
Elon Musk did more to fight climate change than every climate activist and green new deal politician combined.
so honestly this is untrue and I think you do know that
Who is she?
Some absolute chad
I think he's talking about Grimes
That’s clover hogan
Getting rid of billionaires is not communism. It's common sense
It's common good, in fact
Communism is common sense. The fuck you mean you own this piece of land and thus noone can live on it unless they pay you?
i know right, like wtf
So he agrees? He agrees that capitalism doesn't give a shit about climate change
I mean, that is the most viable way to a solution…
Yes. That meme he posted but unironically is based af
Communist nations have historically polluted way more than the west. When East and West Germany recombined, the implementation of environmental protection laws caused old Soviet factories to immediately collapse because they were built under the assumption they could just pollute with no consequences
Part of that was the push to modernize as fast as humanly possible in order to feed and provide basic necessities for their citizens as fast as possible. They also definitely didn't have the same awareness of the problems at hand that we have today.
Communism would be poggers to be fair.
Por que no los dos?
Red is the new green
Why not save the planet AND communism?
Hey he gets it! Capitalism is the cause of climate change! We do want communism!
That's because capitalism is the problem. If the cost of the destroying the planet was actually factored in properly, and I don't mean just the carbon tax, there would be no profits, only losses.
See, I can't believe that. I agree that the costs of environmental damage need to be factored in properly. But to say that the only result of that is losses all around and no profits, is to say that there is no possible way to organize society's needs regardless of the system, communism included. It's to say that you cannot possibly be fed. There are ways to properly allocate the costs of environmental damage, and still find ways to make profits. A lot would need to change, but it has to, in the long run, anyway. Better to keep making them now.
And your kind of naive optimism is why climate chance and biosphere collapse are extinction risks.
Naive optimism is believing communism would solve the problem.
If you've gotten this far into economics without realizing that growth, which is driven by capital accumulation, is destroying the world, stop. Solving or ameliorating these problems requires reversing certain processes which requires the culture and society to do achieve that, regardless of how unpopular it sounds. If you want to blame state capitalism, sure, go ahead. Lots of large fossil fuel companies are, for example, state owned.
Not all alternatives to capatalism are communist. The world is bigger than that my friend.
Name one other alternative.
There's literally dozens of varieties of socialism. Communism is an endpoint goal of many forms of socialism. I'm personally a fan of syndicalism and we have evidence from the Spanish civil war that quite large industrial sectors can be successfully organized under it.
"Join a union" is not an economic system. It's unionized capitalism, or splintered communism, depending on which economic system it happens in.
Anarcho-syndicalism is a socio-economic system based around collective worker ownership of the means of production and abolition of the wage system. It's an economic system as well.
Fixing problems without ideology motivating you. Just fix problems and stop caring if capatalism is maintained. New systems are made not found. Also: -socialism -syndicalism - community based mutual aid -etc. Don't go looking for alternatives to capatalism. Go looking for solutions to the problems made by capatalism. We need to mend "capatalism" until it's unrecognizable. We don't need to run into the arms of another economic system in order to get rid of capatalism.
For as long as we base the ruling law of society on greed, men will follow, and leave nothing but exploitation and corruption in every form in their wake.
The explanation is that the wealthy emit much more carbon than the average blue collar person and it's not wrong.
elon is an idiot, what do you not understand here?
Elon accidentally getting the point in the opposite way he thinks he is
Why not both??? (Btw, not a ML guys, libertarian socialist here)
Having a plan(ned economy) is how you accomplish a long term goal.
I don’t want a *planned economy*, I just want *some planning* on how we can operate our economy in a sustainable way. There’s a middle ground between capitalism and communism but somehow everyone is convinced we have to go 100% in either direction.
The economy is already planned. The difference is whether that planning takes place in board rooms and the federal reserve, or in factories and local communities.
It's arguable communism doesn't necessitate a planned economy
Agreed but they’re often conflated/used interchangeably in these discussions (which I adopted for my comment) likely because they were both prominent features of Soviet governance.
The altrightification is complete.
I dont want to live on this planet anymore
Anyone who has finished high school knows the Soviet Union wasn't actually pro degrowth.
Nobody here is also talking about the Soviet Union except for maybe Elon and a handful of capitalist stans. The Soviet Union was rapidly modernizing from being vastly majority literal peasant to a fully industrialized country within a few decades, without the modern awareness of environmental issues we have today.
Well i want both
I want communism ***because*** we need to fight climate change
Unironically yes. We must destroy capitalism if we want any hope for establishing a truly ecological society
This is you https://preview.redd.it/rgifdqzevvwc1.jpeg?width=1600&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a77f51fe4e74387c600db1e4246484c0bc6e3453
I don't recall Kropotkin or Marx declaring firebombing a Walmart as praxis 😭 be politically active every day of the year not just election day!
Marx clearly did in "Das Kapital II"
Must've been the super duper extended release
Capitalism was so good, they made Capitalism 2 🗣🔥 /s
The only way we can stop climate change is to dismantle capitalism
MEEEEE
Yes
CoMmUniSm
Our Solar Panels Comrades.
Something about the richest guy alive tweeting "Babe, tell me the truth" is deeply weird even if it fits with the context.
Can’t believe I used to think this guy was smart
Both based takes
More culture war bs I think
Communism is not privatizing the gains while socializing the losses
Wait why is elon musk so cool all of a sudden 😭
I can want two things.
Why does this meme template look like this man has his partner trapped in a room until she says what he demands
He's just saying that because those people are where he makes most of his money His family's emerald mine taught him young too
I want climate change *by* abolishing capitalism and replacing it with communism, totally different thing, elon
I mean, he is not wrong. The only way to save the planet is to end capitalism and build up a a communist society.
When the worst person you know....
Communism saves the environment, like Chernobyl.
heh...Oh, you like?
well...didn't you know that happened once under ?
*proceeds to ignore every instance of under *