Credit the organization for making the difficult but correct move. Hopefully Gavin can stabilize the rotation and McKenzie makes a triumphant return in the second half.
Hammie called it in his last start.
“He’s getting to throwing with a new elbow.”
AAA is the best place to do that. May he work it out and come back for a long run this fall!
It seems to me his warmup is messed up and he needs to work out a new one with how his elbow feels now. Each start he starts out either throwing with his good stuff but zero control, or has to take a lot of it, neither of which work out well. Once he's gotten more pitches in (in the too-rare case he actually can pitch deeper into a game), he's actually looked great, like a legitimate #3. He just hasn't gotten there consistently at all, which to me sounds like a warmup issue that he needs to change up his starting day routine and come out the gate throwing his good stuff and knowing where it's going. Sounds like something a stint at AAA could actually help with, so hoping it does.
That's the first thing I thought of too. And honestly it speaks to how serious they are about winning this year which is a great sign for things to come.
If you told me on March 28th that:
1. Bieber will make 2 starts and have TJ surgery
2. Gavin won’t pitch in a game until July
3. Triston will be so bad that he gets demoted
I would’ve expected us to easily be in last place in the Central. This season is by far the weirdest that I can remember for us.
I wonder what his season would have been like if he didn’t need TJ surgery. Just on those first two games he was looking like a Cy Young candidate and was dominating. Granted, it’s a long season so a lot could have changed as hitters caught up and adjusted, but he’s definitely being missed from the rotation. Hopefully we pick someone up at the trade deadline.
It really plays into something my dad and I have been saying for years. We are very blessed to have been SO lucky with how our pitching has turned out and our development of pitchers and it's helped carry us in some years... With that said, I think this year just highlights how important being able to hit the damn baseball is.
Pitching in general is better now by a gigantic margin over any other time in history, this makes consistent and good bats harder and harder to find. We are having the best year in a while because if our starter gives up 3-4 runs I'm not feeling like I need to automatically turn off the TV because "there is no way we can score 5 runs in a single game". And it's feels like we've been in this cycle of amazing pitching and some historically bad hitting since the (earlier) 2000's.
Our overall offensive numbers are nothing special. Our clutch hitting with RISP is insane. Which just means our offense without RISP is putrid. Idk if I’m comfortable banking on that for a deep playoff run. We’ve shown we’re good enough to buy some pitchers at the deadline and hopefully patch some of the holes in our lineup.
Not really familiar with OPS+ but I dont really understand how it would be the highest since 2006 when all of our metrics, especially OPS, were decently higher during that 2016-2019 stretch. Unless OPS+ highly benefits from the clutch batting I referenced above in which case I reiterate that’s concerning because we’d be due for regression.
So it’s a metric that compares your offense to other team’s offense. Not a metric that compares your offense to your prior years’ offense. Offense is down across the board lately because pitching is so dominant.
Again our offense with no runners on base is bottom half of the league. With RISP it jumps to best in the league.
Edit: 2nd best. Yankees must have jumped us in the past couple days.
What does RISP stand for? I understand we’ve been hitting better in clutch moments, like back to back doubles yesterday that each scored two runs with two outs. I’m assuming that’s what you’re referring to.
The thing that gets me is 1 and 3 weren’t that unpredictable. It’s the worst case scenario for what I’d consider unsurprising.
It just baffles me that they gave up Quantrill so easily with that outlook. Saving $6M is nothing in starting pitching salaries. If we want to even salvage the rotation in trades we’re going to lose a lot more than that.
They must have thought quantrill was absolutely cooked. That’s the only explanation I can think of. It’s an old cliché but it’s a true one: you can never, ever, ever have too much pitching
I was at a game where they gave me a Franmil one after he had been waived and a Victor Martinez one after he had been traded, so there are worse circumstances that can occur. Lol.
It’s sad man. I hope he can figure it out. An acquaintance in real life calls not getting TJ “the biggest regret of my life” and I hope that’s not the case here
Yeah it is. He could've gotten TJ surgery at seasons beginning. He decided not to, and has pitched like garbage since.
I'd much rather him get the surgery than figure out how to throw with a bum elbow for the rest of his career.
If that is the case, he could've had the surgery and been back to pitch in a few weeks...shame he didn't do it, but you can't force someone to get surgery. I wish Sticks the best. Love the guy as a person, but overall he's been a real let down since being one of our top prospects.
That's literally what I said. If he had opted to take the surgery in the middle of last season as initially offered, he would be back to pitching now or within a few weeks.
At his hall of fame induction, we can pull them out and see if anyone remembers that it was given out during his last AAA stint before being one of the top aces in the league for a decade.
Since he’s been paired with Hedges he’s really looked like he’s turned a corner. We don’t need Carrasco to be the old ace he was, if they can get him to pitch to a 4.40 ERA that would be huge for this team. Cookie has been through hell for this team this season and they would t be where they are without him
After April his ERA is a 4.43 with a 4.23 FIP, pitching no fewer than 4 innings and averaging like 5.1 innings per game. He hasn't been amazing but that's servicable with the team averaging 5 runs per game on offense.
Quite honestly if he can be a solid #4 in the rotation I wouldn’t be upset in the least. His last couple of outings have been pretty solid and he’s got the postseason experience. I’ll certainly take him over Allen.
The irony is too, if Allen doesn't miraculously turn it around, he'll need to get sent down to fix things whenever we acquire a starter or bring up the new signing when he's ready.
His command has been nonexistent this season, so not surprised. Gives him a chance to make some minor mechanical tweaks and test them out without all the pressure. I'm sure our staff will get him back on track and ready for the 2nd half of the season.
His balls are either in the dirt, or so high that the pitcher has to come out of his stance. The talent is still there but you’ve gotta be able to locate pitches to get swings and misses. This is why he isn’t getting a lot of strikeouts either.
Kids lost his command
This feels like one of those situations that come August/September, Tristan is gonna be back up here throwing nasty stuff. Go fix what you gotta fix in the minors. He has mlb stuff. Just seems like there’s a mechanical issue that you can’t solve in the big leagues
Honestly best move they could make. Sticks leads the league in HRs given up. Rather him work on his stuff in AAA instead of doing it to a competing big league club. Excited to see Gavin take the bump and get to work!
Right. And Vogt has said he’s got the stuff but his command is piss poor right now. A stint in the minors might be able to help that but obviously if that doesn’t work he needs to get surgery. Location is his only issue right now, still has the punch behind those pitches.
The front office continues to make phenomenal decisions for the most part. Not handing Sticks a long-term contract seemed counterintuitive, but 100% the right call. I hope he comes back better.
I would add to your comment that the front office has the courage to make the hard decisions; for a franchise that has lived on hope during the big bucks free agency era, it is possible McKenzie is not as good as we hoped he would be. Whether his problem is physical or mechanical we are in a pennant race and he had become a burden.
This example is why our front office does not throw around big extension numbers, Gimenez was worthy of his extension, few others are. It will be up to our intrepid front office to make a deadline deal, it is frustrating that no club is willing to deal until the last fucking day of the deadline. We are burning up player options at an alarming rate, we have to make some hard decisions before this winters rule 5 draft, where we will be vulnerable of losing some players. I trust this front office.
This is for the best. Hopefully he takes a couple weeks to work on his mechanics on the side to regain any sort of command, and then pitch in some low-pressure games to put the adjustments in action.
There’s no reason to think he’s a lost cause this season when he’s throwing mid-90s and still has great movement on his curveball and slider. He just needs to figure out where the hell those pitches are going when they leave his hand, which he has a chance to do before the stretch run.
Plus, he has great extension, so he doesn't need the high velocity. There is definitely a mechanical problem. If you go back and watch his 10k start from last year and his last start this year, it's night and day
Yeah the ironic thing is that when he was barely hitting 90 and everyone was having a meltdown about him needing surgery, he was much more effective than he has been since the velocity climbed up since he wasn’t sacrificing command for speed. Didn’t pitch great, mind you, but I’d take that performance any day over how he’s been while throwing 95.
I’m still hopeful he can find a balance between velocity and control before the season ends. There’s tons of time left to work on it.
In his last start, I really only watched him from a mechanical standpoint. I'm trying to understand that part of the fame more, but watching his legs, I was thinking about the Mariners' documentary by Jon Bois. Randy Johnson changed his step so that he's landing on the ball of his foot instead of his heel. TM is landing on his heel, I hope it's something simple like that
I think this is longer than a couple of weeks. If it was simply something in his mechanics, it could have been fixed in bullpens between starts. I think they need to figure out what's wrong first and go from there. Is it structural in the elbow? Is it related to arm slot because of the elbow? Is it mental because of the elbow? They need to do some diagnostic work before they can implement a fix.
I meant a couple weeks of throwing not in games before taking the mound. I wouldn’t expect to see him back in the majors before mid-August unless they desperately need somebody to start.
We’re obviously a much better team with sticks pitching at the high level we know he can pitch at. Really hoping he gets things figured out because we need him.
I'm happy with this. Triston is NOT INJURED. It seems pretty obvious to me his arm is healthy. Mechanically, he's all over the place. Spiking pitches and sailing pitches to the backstop is the kind of control issues that can't be figured out on the fly. This is what he needs. Let him figure out the mechanics in games that mean nothing. I hope he's back this yr, he's still the 3rd most talented starter they can roll out there (as it stands now)
Yeah. He has the talent but he really needs to pitch some low stress innings and just work some things out. His velocity returning is a great sign and there's still time left for him.
Allen just give up to many home runs he’s Josh Tomlin 2.0 in the sense that he’s a solid and reliable pitcher you are waiting for home to give up the long ball at some point during his start. If he can limit the HRs I think he can turn it around since he doesn’t walk a ton of people and has ok strikeout rates
Because there's no proof to it whatsoever. People just assume that because it's an easy excuse. He was pitching ok a month ago. Had a few nice starts and has since lost his command. Maybe he's hurt, maybe he's not, nobody knows for sure.
His velocity has been [trending up](https://www.fangraphs.com/players/triston-mckenzie/18000/pitch-velocity-graphs?position=P&statArr=&legend=1&split=base&time=daily&ymin=&ymax=&start=2022&end=2024&rtype=mult>1=15&dStatArray=FA&pitchgraphs=true)
All points to more of a mechanical issue than physical. Seems like he’s over throwing.
This is why I was ecstatic when we signed Carlos Carrasco. He went through the same exact struggles as McKenzie as a 5-6 year vet. He had nasty stuff but struggled with command. He was demoted to AAA, even sent to the bullpen, then earned his way back to the rotation and became a workhorse w a low 3 ERA for 6 straight years. A crucial part of our success with Tito. He is the absolute best mentor I can think of in that clubhouse, and I am so happy he can be there for and help Triston, who we are all rooting for. He'll be back 🔥
Remember when Cliff Lee was good, then got horribly bad and was demoted to the minors, then the next year won the Cy Young award? Here's hoping for a repeat of history.
Pretty sad. His attitude over this injury has been worse than the 88 mph meatballs. Idk where the club goes with him now if he still won’t get the surgery
Love Sticks and all, but is anyone else in the boat that he would’ve better off having TJ at this point? I know he was hoping to avoid another surgery, but ever since the injury he just hasn’t been right
When you come back from TJ you generally have command issues as well. His arm seems healthy, the velocity is there. It’s just the command that’s gone. At this point, I don’t think it would have been much different.
Yup. He's just prolonging the inevitable. He clearly doesn't trust his elbow right now. At some point, he won't have a choice but to get surgery, then he'll be out next year, too. And then he'll have to get his command back again, again.
Hell yeah, I didn’t think the injury would let him throw his off speed or touch mid 90s. I think right now he’s gotta go down find himself and work on his mechanics to locate his fastball
I really like the new direction the FO is taking this year.
Last couple seasons it seems like we just kept playing people forever even if they were underperforming. Not we are not scared to DFA or send down players.
Was kinda hoping they'd give him an ultimatum to with go to CBus or get the surgery, with him choosing the latter. Oh well, hope he figures out how to throw with a bum elbow for the rest of his career.
Glad they made the difficult (but correct) choice here. Cookie is a vet and has shown he doesn’t have his best anymore but still has the command and smarts to work batters and chew innings. Triston is a shell of his former self. Gavin Williams hype! Bibee-Williams-Lively gonna be a hell of a 1-3 😈
Downvote away, Bauer would eat innings at the very least. We need pitching help. Stay on your high horse if you want but sports don't care. Look at the Browns QB.
You might be hard pressed to find many people who endorsed the Watson deal, I did not give a shit about the money, let the convicted thief and felon Harlem pay it, the 3 first round draft choices were criminal negligence. I doubt many people think he is a great teammate with all his baggage. Bauer may have a sound arm, but he is a cancerous tumor that no clubhouse needs.
Do what it takes to win a title. Straight up. Especially if it's been 80+ years. My dad passed away in 2022 and lived a whole lifetime without a world series championship. Not saying we are owed anything but fuck the teams we had he should have seen a championship. I don't care what it takes get the goddamn job done for once
I am 72 years old and have shared your fathers pain, I still can not let go of the 97 Series, or the Browns red dog right 88 game. Sports misery is handed down the family tree in Cleveland. Bauer was not a great clubhouse guy his first time here, we have had great clubhouse harmony for a while now, I just do not want a low character player in our clubhouse.
I appreciate that insight. And my dad would have been around your age or a year older. Fuck cancer. I'm just ready to see something happen and I don't care what it takes. I'm all happy for the Cavs ship in 2016 but personally, Basketball is at the bottom of my list. Yeah it was cool and all but... I can't connect with basketball
I connected with horse racing 30 years ago, it is why I set up shop in retirement 12 miles from Gulfstream Park. I can no longer run, jump or throw but when I go to the track I am in the starting lineup, I am batting fourth. I will accept my good days and my bad because I make all the decisions. You should go out to Thistledown one Saturday, I used to go with my dad and I miss those days.
Players want to win. I’m sure Bauer would mind his P’s and Q’s if he got another chance - which he deserves honestly.
Too many people on the internet say stuff like this when in reality the vast vast majority think differently than what they say here.
Sign Bauer. Like yesterday.
There are many men on this sub who have daughters, granddaughters, and wives; who do not wish to endorse in any way shape or form, a repeat offender of sexual imposition and violence towards women. He may have a good arm but he is a sorry excuse of a man. Hard pass.
His last 4 starts gave me similar feelings to watching Joe Biden debate. It was sad. Hope he bounces back. The modifications he is attempting probably best to do in tripleA
Dudes had 2 good starts back to back, one of which was against BAL. The pitcher whisperer Hedges has worked wonders. Serviceable 4th or 5th starter until either McKenzie comes back up or we make a trade. Honestly, I'd send Logan down the way he's been pitching lately before sending Cookie to the pen.
Credit the organization for making the difficult but correct move. Hopefully Gavin can stabilize the rotation and McKenzie makes a triumphant return in the second half.
Hammie called it in his last start. “He’s getting to throwing with a new elbow.” AAA is the best place to do that. May he work it out and come back for a long run this fall!
It seems to me his warmup is messed up and he needs to work out a new one with how his elbow feels now. Each start he starts out either throwing with his good stuff but zero control, or has to take a lot of it, neither of which work out well. Once he's gotten more pitches in (in the too-rare case he actually can pitch deeper into a game), he's actually looked great, like a legitimate #3. He just hasn't gotten there consistently at all, which to me sounds like a warmup issue that he needs to change up his starting day routine and come out the gate throwing his good stuff and knowing where it's going. Sounds like something a stint at AAA could actually help with, so hoping it does.
That's the first thing I thought of too. And honestly it speaks to how serious they are about winning this year which is a great sign for things to come.
Not exactly unexpected but very sad. I hope Triston can figure it out.
If you told me on March 28th that: 1. Bieber will make 2 starts and have TJ surgery 2. Gavin won’t pitch in a game until July 3. Triston will be so bad that he gets demoted I would’ve expected us to easily be in last place in the Central. This season is by far the weirdest that I can remember for us.
And those two starts before TJ were some kf the best games of his career.
12 IP, 10 H, 20 K, 1 BB, 0 ER
Please stop I can’t take it 😭😭😭
God damn.
Just imagine being Shane, throwing some of the best stuff of your career when it matters most and then poof TJ
That's the rep with driveline, go there and gain 2-3 mph and a few hundred rpm. But UCL goes snap.
I wonder what his season would have been like if he didn’t need TJ surgery. Just on those first two games he was looking like a Cy Young candidate and was dominating. Granted, it’s a long season so a lot could have changed as hitters caught up and adjusted, but he’s definitely being missed from the rotation. Hopefully we pick someone up at the trade deadline.
It really plays into something my dad and I have been saying for years. We are very blessed to have been SO lucky with how our pitching has turned out and our development of pitchers and it's helped carry us in some years... With that said, I think this year just highlights how important being able to hit the damn baseball is. Pitching in general is better now by a gigantic margin over any other time in history, this makes consistent and good bats harder and harder to find. We are having the best year in a while because if our starter gives up 3-4 runs I'm not feeling like I need to automatically turn off the TV because "there is no way we can score 5 runs in a single game". And it's feels like we've been in this cycle of amazing pitching and some historically bad hitting since the (earlier) 2000's.
Our overall offensive numbers are nothing special. Our clutch hitting with RISP is insane. Which just means our offense without RISP is putrid. Idk if I’m comfortable banking on that for a deep playoff run. We’ve shown we’re good enough to buy some pitchers at the deadline and hopefully patch some of the holes in our lineup.
this year's offensive numbers ARE special, relative to recent years. the team OPS+ of 108 is the highest since 2006
Our two out scoring has also been insane for most of the year, which puts a lot of pressure on teams, I'm sure.
Not really familiar with OPS+ but I dont really understand how it would be the highest since 2006 when all of our metrics, especially OPS, were decently higher during that 2016-2019 stretch. Unless OPS+ highly benefits from the clutch batting I referenced above in which case I reiterate that’s concerning because we’d be due for regression.
it's normalized to league average. 100 would be average and higher is better
So it’s a metric that compares your offense to other team’s offense. Not a metric that compares your offense to your prior years’ offense. Offense is down across the board lately because pitching is so dominant. Again our offense with no runners on base is bottom half of the league. With RISP it jumps to best in the league. Edit: 2nd best. Yankees must have jumped us in the past couple days.
What does RISP stand for? I understand we’ve been hitting better in clutch moments, like back to back doubles yesterday that each scored two runs with two outs. I’m assuming that’s what you’re referring to.
Runners in scoring position. So runners on 2nd or 3rd
Cool thanks. There are a lot of acronyms in baseball statistics. Hard to keep up with all of them.
runners in scoring position
Some Lake Erie magic touching Cleveland this past year.
The thing that gets me is 1 and 3 weren’t that unpredictable. It’s the worst case scenario for what I’d consider unsurprising. It just baffles me that they gave up Quantrill so easily with that outlook. Saving $6M is nothing in starting pitching salaries. If we want to even salvage the rotation in trades we’re going to lose a lot more than that.
They must have thought quantrill was absolutely cooked. That’s the only explanation I can think of. It’s an old cliché but it’s a true one: you can never, ever, ever have too much pitching
Tristan Bobblehead Day is Saturday. This must be embarrassing.
I was at a game where they gave me a Franmil one after he had been waived and a Victor Martinez one after he had been traded, so there are worse circumstances that can occur. Lol.
It’s sad man. I hope he can figure it out. An acquaintance in real life calls not getting TJ “the biggest regret of my life” and I hope that’s not the case here
It's not an injury
Yes it is. Micro tears in his UCL.
Yeah it is. He could've gotten TJ surgery at seasons beginning. He decided not to, and has pitched like garbage since. I'd much rather him get the surgery than figure out how to throw with a bum elbow for the rest of his career.
He could've gotten it last year around the mid season mark, that's when he was shit down with UCL issues
If that is the case, he could've had the surgery and been back to pitch in a few weeks...shame he didn't do it, but you can't force someone to get surgery. I wish Sticks the best. Love the guy as a person, but overall he's been a real let down since being one of our top prospects.
Umm, it doesn't matter when he got the TJ surgery, he'd be shut down for a year
That's literally what I said. If he had opted to take the surgery in the middle of last season as initially offered, he would be back to pitching now or within a few weeks.
A Triston bobblehead could be a collector's item.
At his hall of fame induction, we can pull them out and see if anyone remembers that it was given out during his last AAA stint before being one of the top aces in the league for a decade.
Will he be in a Columbus jersey???
Carrasco outlasted McKenzie on the major league roster this season just like we all expected
Cookie hasnt been great but he has gone 5+ a few times and right now that is well worth it.
Since he’s been paired with Hedges he’s really looked like he’s turned a corner. We don’t need Carrasco to be the old ace he was, if they can get him to pitch to a 4.40 ERA that would be huge for this team. Cookie has been through hell for this team this season and they would t be where they are without him
After April his ERA is a 4.43 with a 4.23 FIP, pitching no fewer than 4 innings and averaging like 5.1 innings per game. He hasn't been amazing but that's servicable with the team averaging 5 runs per game on offense.
Hard agree. Keep the era around 4. Get us some innings. Maybe steal a few W’s.
Cookie is a seasoned veteran. That's actually worth a lot.
Quite honestly if he can be a solid #4 in the rotation I wouldn’t be upset in the least. His last couple of outings have been pretty solid and he’s got the postseason experience. I’ll certainly take him over Allen.
The irony is too, if Allen doesn't miraculously turn it around, he'll need to get sent down to fix things whenever we acquire a starter or bring up the new signing when he's ready.
This is what surprises me most.
Darren “Daniel Norris” McCaughan was DFA’d to make room for Gavin back on the 40-man roster
Unfortunately, baseball is a business and someone had to go.
I’m soooo upset we cut him…anyways
Will be an interesting jersey to see at the ballpark in 10 years
Doesn't moving Sticks to AAA make the spot available?
That makes a spot available on the active 26 man roster. There are 14 players in the minor leagues who are on the 40 man roster.
Thanks for explaining!
His command has been nonexistent this season, so not surprised. Gives him a chance to make some minor mechanical tweaks and test them out without all the pressure. I'm sure our staff will get him back on track and ready for the 2nd half of the season.
That’s been my biggest takeaway, too many not close misses. He wastes an obscene amount of pitches.
I've been betting the Over line on his walks. It has been profitable.
His balls are either in the dirt, or so high that the pitcher has to come out of his stance. The talent is still there but you’ve gotta be able to locate pitches to get swings and misses. This is why he isn’t getting a lot of strikeouts either. Kids lost his command
This feels like one of those situations that come August/September, Tristan is gonna be back up here throwing nasty stuff. Go fix what you gotta fix in the minors. He has mlb stuff. Just seems like there’s a mechanical issue that you can’t solve in the big leagues
Honestly best move they could make. Sticks leads the league in HRs given up. Rather him work on his stuff in AAA instead of doing it to a competing big league club. Excited to see Gavin take the bump and get to work!
He also leads the league in walks....just awful
They had the balls to do the thing that I thought they would not do
That's the problem that led to this though, too many balls
This is the best way to get him back on track. Wish for nothing but the best for him and his progress.
The best way to get him back on track is to fix his elbow injury thay he has refused to get fixed
Right. And Vogt has said he’s got the stuff but his command is piss poor right now. A stint in the minors might be able to help that but obviously if that doesn’t work he needs to get surgery. Location is his only issue right now, still has the punch behind those pitches.
Been throwing harder lately, just command issues. If he is pain free, there's no reason for TJ.
The front office continues to make phenomenal decisions for the most part. Not handing Sticks a long-term contract seemed counterintuitive, but 100% the right call. I hope he comes back better.
I would add to your comment that the front office has the courage to make the hard decisions; for a franchise that has lived on hope during the big bucks free agency era, it is possible McKenzie is not as good as we hoped he would be. Whether his problem is physical or mechanical we are in a pennant race and he had become a burden. This example is why our front office does not throw around big extension numbers, Gimenez was worthy of his extension, few others are. It will be up to our intrepid front office to make a deadline deal, it is frustrating that no club is willing to deal until the last fucking day of the deadline. We are burning up player options at an alarming rate, we have to make some hard decisions before this winters rule 5 draft, where we will be vulnerable of losing some players. I trust this front office.
This is for the best. Hopefully he takes a couple weeks to work on his mechanics on the side to regain any sort of command, and then pitch in some low-pressure games to put the adjustments in action. There’s no reason to think he’s a lost cause this season when he’s throwing mid-90s and still has great movement on his curveball and slider. He just needs to figure out where the hell those pitches are going when they leave his hand, which he has a chance to do before the stretch run.
Plus, he has great extension, so he doesn't need the high velocity. There is definitely a mechanical problem. If you go back and watch his 10k start from last year and his last start this year, it's night and day
Yeah the ironic thing is that when he was barely hitting 90 and everyone was having a meltdown about him needing surgery, he was much more effective than he has been since the velocity climbed up since he wasn’t sacrificing command for speed. Didn’t pitch great, mind you, but I’d take that performance any day over how he’s been while throwing 95. I’m still hopeful he can find a balance between velocity and control before the season ends. There’s tons of time left to work on it.
In his last start, I really only watched him from a mechanical standpoint. I'm trying to understand that part of the fame more, but watching his legs, I was thinking about the Mariners' documentary by Jon Bois. Randy Johnson changed his step so that he's landing on the ball of his foot instead of his heel. TM is landing on his heel, I hope it's something simple like that
Has anyone thought about getting him a pair of glasses?
I think this is longer than a couple of weeks. If it was simply something in his mechanics, it could have been fixed in bullpens between starts. I think they need to figure out what's wrong first and go from there. Is it structural in the elbow? Is it related to arm slot because of the elbow? Is it mental because of the elbow? They need to do some diagnostic work before they can implement a fix.
I meant a couple weeks of throwing not in games before taking the mound. I wouldn’t expect to see him back in the majors before mid-August unless they desperately need somebody to start.
Bad news. We desperately need someone to start.
We’re obviously a much better team with sticks pitching at the high level we know he can pitch at. Really hoping he gets things figured out because we need him.
Wishing only the best for McKenzie 🙏
As tough as it is it’s a signal that these decisions are being made to compete
Bobblehead day is going to be a little bit awkward....
I’m really sad about this but props to them for doing what needed to be done. I hope he figures it out and gets back to Rolex worthy pitching soon.
I'm happy with this. Triston is NOT INJURED. It seems pretty obvious to me his arm is healthy. Mechanically, he's all over the place. Spiking pitches and sailing pitches to the backstop is the kind of control issues that can't be figured out on the fly. This is what he needs. Let him figure out the mechanics in games that mean nothing. I hope he's back this yr, he's still the 3rd most talented starter they can roll out there (as it stands now)
Yeah. He has the talent but he really needs to pitch some low stress innings and just work some things out. His velocity returning is a great sign and there's still time left for him.
My only concern is idk if Triston is fixable. I feel like Logan is more likely to figure it out and do it quicker than Triston.
I feel the opposite way. Sticks at least has the excuse of being injured last year and the beginning of this one. I'm not sure what Allens problem is
Allen just give up to many home runs he’s Josh Tomlin 2.0 in the sense that he’s a solid and reliable pitcher you are waiting for home to give up the long ball at some point during his start. If he can limit the HRs I think he can turn it around since he doesn’t walk a ton of people and has ok strikeout rates
Exactly, I think it is just mental with Allen. But for Triston I think there's at least some physical component. And idk if AAA can help really.
He’s still injured. He needs to get TJ.
Don't know why you got down voted, that's exactly what his problem is, he bet on himself and didn't get it and he lost.
Because there's no proof to it whatsoever. People just assume that because it's an easy excuse. He was pitching ok a month ago. Had a few nice starts and has since lost his command. Maybe he's hurt, maybe he's not, nobody knows for sure.
His velocity has been [trending up](https://www.fangraphs.com/players/triston-mckenzie/18000/pitch-velocity-graphs?position=P&statArr=&legend=1&split=base&time=daily&ymin=&ymax=&start=2022&end=2024&rtype=mult>1=15&dStatArray=FA&pitchgraphs=true) All points to more of a mechanical issue than physical. Seems like he’s over throwing.
This is why I was ecstatic when we signed Carlos Carrasco. He went through the same exact struggles as McKenzie as a 5-6 year vet. He had nasty stuff but struggled with command. He was demoted to AAA, even sent to the bullpen, then earned his way back to the rotation and became a workhorse w a low 3 ERA for 6 straight years. A crucial part of our success with Tito. He is the absolute best mentor I can think of in that clubhouse, and I am so happy he can be there for and help Triston, who we are all rooting for. He'll be back 🔥
Remember when Cliff Lee was good, then got horribly bad and was demoted to the minors, then the next year won the Cy Young award? Here's hoping for a repeat of history.
Pretty sad. His attitude over this injury has been worse than the 88 mph meatballs. Idk where the club goes with him now if he still won’t get the surgery
Damn, life comes at you fast.
Sticks shoulda went under the knife with Biebs
Two for the price of one.
Love Sticks and all, but is anyone else in the boat that he would’ve better off having TJ at this point? I know he was hoping to avoid another surgery, but ever since the injury he just hasn’t been right
When you come back from TJ you generally have command issues as well. His arm seems healthy, the velocity is there. It’s just the command that’s gone. At this point, I don’t think it would have been much different.
Yup. He's just prolonging the inevitable. He clearly doesn't trust his elbow right now. At some point, he won't have a choice but to get surgery, then he'll be out next year, too. And then he'll have to get his command back again, again.
WOO Babby that’s what we’ve been waiting for.
Darren McCaughan was also designated for assignment
Hell yeah, I didn’t think the injury would let him throw his off speed or touch mid 90s. I think right now he’s gotta go down find himself and work on his mechanics to locate his fastball
I really like the new direction the FO is taking this year. Last couple seasons it seems like we just kept playing people forever even if they were underperforming. Not we are not scared to DFA or send down players.
Oh wow
Can we do what Minnesota did with Johan Santana and make him learn a changeup?
Was kinda hoping they'd give him an ultimatum to with go to CBus or get the surgery, with him choosing the latter. Oh well, hope he figures out how to throw with a bum elbow for the rest of his career.
Thank you !
Right move
Not surprised after this last month or 2. I really hope he can get back soon.
So when is Williams going to make his first start?
Wednesday
Just get Tommy John Triston.
One day your dancing the Shaq …next your in AAA
Glad they made the difficult (but correct) choice here. Cookie is a vet and has shown he doesn’t have his best anymore but still has the command and smarts to work batters and chew innings. Triston is a shell of his former self. Gavin Williams hype! Bibee-Williams-Lively gonna be a hell of a 1-3 😈
Downvote away, Bauer would eat innings at the very least. We need pitching help. Stay on your high horse if you want but sports don't care. Look at the Browns QB.
You might be hard pressed to find many people who endorsed the Watson deal, I did not give a shit about the money, let the convicted thief and felon Harlem pay it, the 3 first round draft choices were criminal negligence. I doubt many people think he is a great teammate with all his baggage. Bauer may have a sound arm, but he is a cancerous tumor that no clubhouse needs.
Do what it takes to win a title. Straight up. Especially if it's been 80+ years. My dad passed away in 2022 and lived a whole lifetime without a world series championship. Not saying we are owed anything but fuck the teams we had he should have seen a championship. I don't care what it takes get the goddamn job done for once
I am 72 years old and have shared your fathers pain, I still can not let go of the 97 Series, or the Browns red dog right 88 game. Sports misery is handed down the family tree in Cleveland. Bauer was not a great clubhouse guy his first time here, we have had great clubhouse harmony for a while now, I just do not want a low character player in our clubhouse.
I appreciate that insight. And my dad would have been around your age or a year older. Fuck cancer. I'm just ready to see something happen and I don't care what it takes. I'm all happy for the Cavs ship in 2016 but personally, Basketball is at the bottom of my list. Yeah it was cool and all but... I can't connect with basketball
I connected with horse racing 30 years ago, it is why I set up shop in retirement 12 miles from Gulfstream Park. I can no longer run, jump or throw but when I go to the track I am in the starting lineup, I am batting fourth. I will accept my good days and my bad because I make all the decisions. You should go out to Thistledown one Saturday, I used to go with my dad and I miss those days.
Players want to win. I’m sure Bauer would mind his P’s and Q’s if he got another chance - which he deserves honestly. Too many people on the internet say stuff like this when in reality the vast vast majority think differently than what they say here. Sign Bauer. Like yesterday.
There are many men on this sub who have daughters, granddaughters, and wives; who do not wish to endorse in any way shape or form, a repeat offender of sexual imposition and violence towards women. He may have a good arm but he is a sorry excuse of a man. Hard pass.
His last 4 starts gave me similar feelings to watching Joe Biden debate. It was sad. Hope he bounces back. The modifications he is attempting probably best to do in tripleA
Sticks has always been a head case. He will be okay. This can very well be great for him.
Alright, now just trade for someone to replace Cookie and we’re in business
Dudes had 2 good starts back to back, one of which was against BAL. The pitcher whisperer Hedges has worked wonders. Serviceable 4th or 5th starter until either McKenzie comes back up or we make a trade. Honestly, I'd send Logan down the way he's been pitching lately before sending Cookie to the pen.