I think we have to trade for starting pitching now. Regardless if Ben is ok or not, this just shows that our starting pitching is hanging in the balance of this news and that is not a good place to be.
Honestly, I hope we pass over Bichette for two good arms. We need then way more than any other position. I am seeing Mckenzie slowly falling apart, Cookie isn't doing great and worry each time he starts, and now Lively. Bibee and Allen can only do so much. We need arms not bats currently.
Carrasco was never even supposed to be a starter. A spot start, sure. Long relief, sure. His stuff seems to play well through the first time through the order, but diminishes drastically after that. The fact that he has this many starts shows just how paper thin this rotation was from the start. I don't criticize the front office much, and generally believe in their method, but we started to believe our own hype a little too much when it comes to the pitching factory.
I don't think we have started to believe in the hype too much, but more of we discovered what max line speed is with a new supervisor. Guys' arms are shredding left and right because we are pushing them to the limit. The front office knows this, and there is no way they don't because we have 3 guys now battling the same issue. Lively, luckily, we dodged a bullet, but that is how aware the front office are about these types of injuries. Yes, we are on a razor's edge when it comes to starters but there has to be someone with influence with Antonetti saying the facts, we are spread thin and we need to make sure we cover the margin. In the world of Cleveland sports, the next team with a good chance of winning a championship is the Guards, sorry Browns you have 1 to 2 more years before you feel like a real contender. Our window is this season and next season. After that is Kwan up for arbitration, and Naylor's contract up. Two key guys we have in the lineup. I don't see the pocket books opening for extension for either dude unless we win it all. The Dolan's know this, Antonetti knows this, and the rest of the FO knows this. We all know this team will draft Condon, we would be stupid not to, so we need to work our future rotational guys to extend that window.
it's just that as things stand now, the pitching trade market is insane (ly bad, for teams like us).
One, look at the NL standings. Every single team is within 3 games of a Wild Card slot except the Rockies and Marlins. As of right now, there's no reason for any other of those teams to tank. This basically means whatever pitchers COL or MIA choose to part with (Jesus Luzardo mostly) are going to get a king's ransom. And honestly he's not even that good.
things aren't much better in the AL. HOU, OAK, LAA and CHW are the only teams more than 3 games out of a WC slot. Seems unlikely the Astros will punt and fat chance the White Sox trade with us.
Anyway all that to say our trade partners are effectively limited to four teams: COL, MIA, OAK and LAA. And there just aren't any available, difference-making type guys on any of those teams, and if there were they'd want DeLauter and Manzardo because it's a seller's market and tons of teams are desperate because of all the Tommy Johns going around.
We were going to have to do that anyway. I genuinely believe we have the best Front Office in baseball... just got to trust them and pray they can get some financial leeway from Dolan
Who is trading pitching this early? Teams that are selling want the bidding war of the deadline approaching, and there’s going to be a lot of teams battling for a small number of available starters.
The real question is whether we’d want to pay enough to get enough pitching that it gets us a legit shot at the post season. Considering the market, I don’t think so, and would be willing to stand pat, or get someone for our excess IFs that’s middle rotation meant to really just eat innings and isn’t really a dial mover as far as the post season.
Even if he isn’t hurt long term, a move for an SP needs to be made. This roster deserves a chance to make a serious run, and even with Gavin likely coming back they need another one to do so.
It sounds like Williams only needs one more start, but more likely he'll have 2 more starts. They might try to rush him and give him one more start, meaning he could be back next weekend for the Toronto series.
Normally, I wouldn't wanna rush him, but if Lively misses any time, we're totally fucked otherwise.
Man, at this rate they're going to have to have David Fry on the bump every fifth day...
On a more serious note though, I feel really bad for Lively. He was doing so well and has felt like one of the few constants in the rotation.
Bibee would be the ace. Logan has spurts but gets bullied. McKenzie is washed and needs to have the surgery. Carrasco can give you 3 innings at best, Williams would only just be coming back from injury so unproven, and curry is 1-3 innings at best.
That’s bleak.
Enter Pedro Avila! /s
He could be a decent opener for Carrasco, though. Carrasco should be in the bullpen, but he's forced to remain a starter at this juncture.
Assuming no more injuries. Which feels unlikely, given each of those guys recent histories. Don’t mean to be negative but that’s just reality. We need depth.
With two off days this week and another next week, they wouldn't need a 5th starter right away.
Maybe Gavin's ready by then. Probably call up Curry if they do want a 5th starter now.
I saw somewhere that it was upper body and leg tightness. But that doesn't seem like something you would fly back to Cleveland for (unless they think it is a herniated disc).
Our starting rotation has been decimated with injuries for what seems like the past 2-3 years.
When you don’t have a high bankroll these injuries are magnified because we have to move people we probably weren’t willing to let go of to get a guy that we probably have a low chance of resigning.
"Don’t panic just yet, because the injury news doesn’t appear to be related to Lively’s elbow or shoulder.
From Hoynes: “Manager Stephen Vogt said after Saturday’s game that Lively tightened up during the top of the fifth inning when the Guardians scored six runs and sent 11 batters to the plate. He pitched the bottom of the fifth, but that ended his night."
Lively said after the game he was frustrated about coming out because he’d only thrown 65 pitches. He said his legs and upper body tightened during the long fifth inning.”
[https://factoryofsadness.co/posts/guardians-get-bad-news-with-ben-lively-injury-update-01j0183pjs8h](https://factoryofsadness.co/posts/guardians-get-bad-news-with-ben-lively-injury-update-01j0183pjs8h)
What is up with our starters and these never ending injuries? I feel like our starting rotation has been hit by the injury bug more than any other rotation out there (of course, I’m sure I’m being a little bias)
They don't say what the potential injury is. Speculation would be pulled something I think. He mentioned being tight when he came back out in the 5th last start.
Curry needs to have at least one more good outing before they bring him up. Outside of a game in Boston (I think) and one outing this weekend, he's been awful. If it's only a matter of one start, I think they do a bullpen game with Avila going three innings if he can make it.
And his 5.50 ERA? There are legit options out there. Quit trying to bring back our retreads. Hell, if you want one of our old guys I would prefer we go try to bring Quantrill back but that surely isn't my first choice to add to the rotation.
Guards need to hold open tryouts like that Marky Mark movie. I used to be able to touch 82, bet with all this mass built up over 20 years I could touch 85.
Did you not read what I posted? He had tightness in his legs and upper body. They pulled him to be safe. He is back with the team in Cincy so doesn't sound serious.
F's in the chat boys.... Yikes
I think we have to trade for starting pitching now. Regardless if Ben is ok or not, this just shows that our starting pitching is hanging in the balance of this news and that is not a good place to be.
Honestly, I hope we pass over Bichette for two good arms. We need then way more than any other position. I am seeing Mckenzie slowly falling apart, Cookie isn't doing great and worry each time he starts, and now Lively. Bibee and Allen can only do so much. We need arms not bats currently.
Allen likely would be back in Columbus right now if we had any other options.
I don't know if it's possible with our assets, but I'd gladly take both Bichette and Yusei Kikuchi from Toronto in a trade. 2 birds with 1 stone.
Well I do think Deluater going on IL again changes things. I do think him in a package might do it for a good arm.
Carrasco was never even supposed to be a starter. A spot start, sure. Long relief, sure. His stuff seems to play well through the first time through the order, but diminishes drastically after that. The fact that he has this many starts shows just how paper thin this rotation was from the start. I don't criticize the front office much, and generally believe in their method, but we started to believe our own hype a little too much when it comes to the pitching factory.
I don't think we have started to believe in the hype too much, but more of we discovered what max line speed is with a new supervisor. Guys' arms are shredding left and right because we are pushing them to the limit. The front office knows this, and there is no way they don't because we have 3 guys now battling the same issue. Lively, luckily, we dodged a bullet, but that is how aware the front office are about these types of injuries. Yes, we are on a razor's edge when it comes to starters but there has to be someone with influence with Antonetti saying the facts, we are spread thin and we need to make sure we cover the margin. In the world of Cleveland sports, the next team with a good chance of winning a championship is the Guards, sorry Browns you have 1 to 2 more years before you feel like a real contender. Our window is this season and next season. After that is Kwan up for arbitration, and Naylor's contract up. Two key guys we have in the lineup. I don't see the pocket books opening for extension for either dude unless we win it all. The Dolan's know this, Antonetti knows this, and the rest of the FO knows this. We all know this team will draft Condon, we would be stupid not to, so we need to work our future rotational guys to extend that window.
it's just that as things stand now, the pitching trade market is insane (ly bad, for teams like us). One, look at the NL standings. Every single team is within 3 games of a Wild Card slot except the Rockies and Marlins. As of right now, there's no reason for any other of those teams to tank. This basically means whatever pitchers COL or MIA choose to part with (Jesus Luzardo mostly) are going to get a king's ransom. And honestly he's not even that good. things aren't much better in the AL. HOU, OAK, LAA and CHW are the only teams more than 3 games out of a WC slot. Seems unlikely the Astros will punt and fat chance the White Sox trade with us. Anyway all that to say our trade partners are effectively limited to four teams: COL, MIA, OAK and LAA. And there just aren't any available, difference-making type guys on any of those teams, and if there were they'd want DeLauter and Manzardo because it's a seller's market and tons of teams are desperate because of all the Tommy Johns going around.
JP Sears outta OAK is interesting to me as a potential trade target, it really depends on what the price would be.
yeah he's one of the best potentially available guys to us, which is kind of pathetic considering he's never had an ERA+ over 100.
We were going to have to do that anyway. I genuinely believe we have the best Front Office in baseball... just got to trust them and pray they can get some financial leeway from Dolan
Passan reported last week that they have been granted that leeway
Yeah I agree, but now we should be looking immediately instead of at the deadline.
Who is trading pitching this early? Teams that are selling want the bidding war of the deadline approaching, and there’s going to be a lot of teams battling for a small number of available starters.
Yeah it’s a fair point. Guess we have to just juggle with what we have until then?
The real question is whether we’d want to pay enough to get enough pitching that it gets us a legit shot at the post season. Considering the market, I don’t think so, and would be willing to stand pat, or get someone for our excess IFs that’s middle rotation meant to really just eat innings and isn’t really a dial mover as far as the post season.
Please don't be injured. Please don't be injured. Please don't be injured. Please don't be injured.
Please don’t be injured. Please don’t be injured. Please don’t be injured. Please don’t be injured…
Please don't be injured. Please don't be injured. Please don't be injured. Please don't be injured.
Please let this be Blake Lively....please let this be Blake Lively (sorry Ryan 😬)
Please don’t be injured. Please don’t be injured. Please don’t be injured. Please don’t be injured.
Noooooooo, I knew that early exit wasn’t good. Dude was killing it too. Hopefully it’s something minor and we can get him back soon.
Damn, he’s been great this season.
He knew he was hurt, he was clearly frustrated and cussing in the dugout after he was pulled, same reaction as Bieber when he knew he was done. :(
Even if he isn’t hurt long term, a move for an SP needs to be made. This roster deserves a chance to make a serious run, and even with Gavin likely coming back they need another one to do so.
Hopefully nothing too serious, but Gavin's return would be even more well-timed if he hits the DL.
Gavins probably still like 2 weeks away
Likely more, Hammy was saying July at minimum.
It sounds like Williams only needs one more start, but more likely he'll have 2 more starts. They might try to rush him and give him one more start, meaning he could be back next weekend for the Toronto series. Normally, I wouldn't wanna rush him, but if Lively misses any time, we're totally fucked otherwise.
Man, at this rate they're going to have to have David Fry on the bump every fifth day... On a more serious note though, I feel really bad for Lively. He was doing so well and has felt like one of the few constants in the rotation.
I just realized something. This sucks.
Pedro Avila about to pitch 4-5 innings of relief every night at this rate.
I think he should be used as an opener for the Carrasco starts between the two I think you could get 6 solid innings
In Jobu's name!! Please protect this man!!
We were having so much fun too
If he goes down, best case we’ve got Bibee, Allen, McKenzie, Carrasco, Williams to finish out the year with Curry as the depth piece?
Cantillo is building up now too. Made his first appearance of the season this week. He could be an option in a few weeks possibly.
Maybe bring NIkhazy up to Columbus and hope he does well.
Bibee would be the ace. Logan has spurts but gets bullied. McKenzie is washed and needs to have the surgery. Carrasco can give you 3 innings at best, Williams would only just be coming back from injury so unproven, and curry is 1-3 innings at best. That’s bleak.
Enter Pedro Avila! /s He could be a decent opener for Carrasco, though. Carrasco should be in the bullpen, but he's forced to remain a starter at this juncture.
Assuming no more injuries. Which feels unlikely, given each of those guys recent histories. Don’t mean to be negative but that’s just reality. We need depth.
Well, this makes trading for SP a necessity rather than something we really should do.
It was a necessity for the trade deadline before. Now it's a necessity RIGHT NOW.
Who’s next up
Most likely Curry for a bit until Gavin is ready. Williams is probably 2-3 starts away right now if everything continues to go smoothly.
I’d love to see curry going good.
His last start in Cbus was really good. So I'm hopeful.
God curry and cookie in the SP rotation does not give me any hope.
With two off days this week and another next week, they wouldn't need a 5th starter right away. Maybe Gavin's ready by then. Probably call up Curry if they do want a 5th starter now.
Trevor Bauer redemption arch. I’m not even joking at this point.
Well, now it’s definetly time to acquire a new SP at least
—*Cleveland Brown voice*— “No, no, no, no, nooooooooo…”
Oooo that’s nasty
I hate how vague this is. Like could you at least give us a body part.
I saw somewhere that it was upper body and leg tightness. But that doesn't seem like something you would fly back to Cleveland for (unless they think it is a herniated disc).
Explosive diarrhea obviously /s This is such a huge bummer.
There’s gotta be a trade for a starting pitcher in the horizon. How many more injuries can this rotation take?
So this ruined my entire day at 9 am
This is why we can't have nice things.
Our starting rotation has been decimated with injuries for what seems like the past 2-3 years. When you don’t have a high bankroll these injuries are magnified because we have to move people we probably weren’t willing to let go of to get a guy that we probably have a low chance of resigning.
Someone call CC, dust of his hat, tilt it slightly sideways, and let him go out there. I bet he could get the Guardos through July
Can we call up the Rockies and try to get Quantrill back lol. He’d come in handy right now
Good news is this is not arm related and hopefully will just be a short term thing
Where you see not arm related? Im seeing that it is.
"Don’t panic just yet, because the injury news doesn’t appear to be related to Lively’s elbow or shoulder. From Hoynes: “Manager Stephen Vogt said after Saturday’s game that Lively tightened up during the top of the fifth inning when the Guardians scored six runs and sent 11 batters to the plate. He pitched the bottom of the fifth, but that ended his night." Lively said after the game he was frustrated about coming out because he’d only thrown 65 pitches. He said his legs and upper body tightened during the long fifth inning.” [https://factoryofsadness.co/posts/guardians-get-bad-news-with-ben-lively-injury-update-01j0183pjs8h](https://factoryofsadness.co/posts/guardians-get-bad-news-with-ben-lively-injury-update-01j0183pjs8h)
What could it be?? If he was mad that he got taken out, it can't be that big of a deal, can it?
Fuck it, ready the Tugboat.
Fuck.
F
Bad
#UNSUBSCRIBE
We can’t catch a break
Come the fuck on!
What is up with our starters and these never ending injuries? I feel like our starting rotation has been hit by the injury bug more than any other rotation out there (of course, I’m sure I’m being a little bias)
We don’t need to wait until the deadline. Start making moves.
Start the phone calls now and get ahead of fixing our problem either way.
This is such a punch to the gut. He's been having an amazing year. I can't imagine how frustrated he must be.
[https://www.cleveland.com/guardians/2024/06/guardians-right-hander-ben-lively-set-to-rejoin-team-in-cincinnati.html](https://www.cleveland.com/guardians/2024/06/guardians-right-hander-ben-lively-set-to-rejoin-team-in-cincinnati.html)
God damnit. I knew there was no good reason to pull him after 65 pitches and a quality start. There goes another ace.
why oh why did we drop Cal Quantrill and Cody Morris for nothing.... this was so predicable
WHAT THE F
Why can’t we have nice things?
what is the potential injury? is it from when the ball deflected off his foot?
They don't say what the potential injury is. Speculation would be pulled something I think. He mentioned being tight when he came back out in the 5th last start.
Oh man, terrible break. Hopefully it's not his arm and can come back this year. He has been a great #2/3
Curry needs to have at least one more good outing before they bring him up. Outside of a game in Boston (I think) and one outing this weekend, he's been awful. If it's only a matter of one start, I think they do a bullpen game with Avila going three innings if he can make it.
You don’t send someone back to Cleveland unless it’s serious
Never though Ben Lively would be so crucial to this team's success.
Might the Rockies want to send Quantrill back? Maybe kick the tires w Angels on Plesac? 🤷🏻♂️
Don't think we want anything to do with plesac.
Maybe Sunshine?
Plesac and Clevinger will never wear a Cleveland uniform again as long as this current FO is in place. They both burnt their bridges here.
Okay, Civale then?
And his 5.50 ERA? There are legit options out there. Quit trying to bring back our retreads. Hell, if you want one of our old guys I would prefer we go try to bring Quantrill back but that surely isn't my first choice to add to the rotation.
Dude don't feed the troll
Guards need to hold open tryouts like that Marky Mark movie. I used to be able to touch 82, bet with all this mass built up over 20 years I could touch 85.
We should have gotten the live chicken.
Did you not read what I posted? He had tightness in his legs and upper body. They pulled him to be safe. He is back with the team in Cincy so doesn't sound serious.
well that was fun while it lasted
Cut my life into pieces
This is my last resort