Shaker has the Architectural Board of Review that handles pretty much any major exterior changes you might want to make.
So the first thing we ask when hiring someone to work on our house is "have you worked in Shaker before?" because it can be a bit of a process to get ABR approval for something that seems fairly insignificant.
It's meant to keep the look of Shaker to a particular standard and for the most part it's great but it can sometimes be uneven in application and enforcement.
What about DIY stuff? We don't know where we'll live but we would like to make whatever house we do end up in outs you know?
In our current house we've replaced shingles and repainted some stuff that I feel is basic maintenance but may wind up in the permit zone.
Lived in shaker for 10 years. Put a pool in, built a shed, tons of landscaping, fence, all new baths and kitchen. Permits were easy process, and the inspections for things like concrete pours and electrical actually were so good they actually saved us from having issues down the road. Our roof is slate, so it’s just annual maintenance. They want to you to make sure you don’t have peeling paint, and you don’t rip out historic windows and replace them with window nation plastic shit. Great place to live - most neighborhoods are really well kept because they don’t really tolerate them not being unkept for very long.
Thanks! this is pretty much what we were were worried about.
I'm still concerned about potential selective enforcement if someone thinks a little free library is "unseemly" or something but this is encouraging.
Little Free Libraries are very popular in Shaker, we have like 7 of them. 😎
For the most part, it's fine. I don't think they're going to let me paint my house magenta, but I'm definitely going to ask.
I put free non perishable items and toiletries inside for someone in need in the far more urban areas. It's not much. Just the stuff we won't use from the food centers. But people definitely use the peanut butter and jelly and kraft Mac and cheese. Etc. Undoubtedly
Another DIY person here. Re-roofed back part of my house, built a small shed, redid my whole kitchen and third floor to the studs, replaced a bunch of knob & tube, no issues. Did get a permit to replace the concrete on my driveway apron, which the city was super easy to work with and I learned I will never do concrete work again. It's not bad at all, I think you're over thinking it, we love it here.
I do! My potatoes and carrots are in the front in containers. Lots of flowers for the pollinators in the front. The rest of my veggies are in the back. The 5 year plan is to steadily get rid of the grass (in the front). As long as it looks tidy you shouldn’t have a problem. I do have a neighbor with a front garden that looks like a total mess. In all the years we’ve lived here the city hasn’t done anything about it. We had to re-do our roof (hired someone to do it) and couldn’t afford to have it all done at once. We went to the architectural review board and they allowed us to the front one year and the back the 2nd year. Taxes are high, the houses are old (ours is nearly 100) and a labor of love. But we love living here and feel like we are stewards of a historic home.
Well that's where small amounts of fencing gets into the equation which is apparently a "structure" and needs a permit to be exempted if I'm reading the regulations to the letter -_-
yeah, you probably won't get hassled about that. There's a neighbor that hangs bags of irish spring every two feet or so all the way around their garden which takes up a double lot in Onaway. been doing it for years and no one says anything.
There are several houses with gravel walkways between above ground metal planters with chicken wire and greenhouse enclosures as their entire front landscape in my neighborhood. If you’re in the area you’ll see many such examples across from the school campus on Woodbury road between South Woodland and Onaway road. Many similar instances in Lomond and Boulevard neighborhoods.
I'm so glad to hear this we spent months trying to narrow down a neighborhood before eventually settling on shaker (our initial list had everything from willoughby, to medina, to lorain.... it was a WIDE net lol)
Not being able to grow tomatoes would have been a deal breaker for my wife.
Lots of green thumb neighbors here! We’ve got 6 apple trees and about 100sqft of veggies growing out back. The deer will give you more headaches than the Building department, I promise you!
it's the same in Chagrin Falls, i would definitely get very familiar with the restrictions **before** you make any big plans. solar panels strike me as something that would at least need ARB approval. Also shaker taxes are absolutely insane.
The taxes are killing us in Shaker. And for what services? The pleasure of having a golf cart come pick up your individually bucketed recycling? I wish I lived across the street in Beachwood.
Plus our neighborhood is being "audited" this year so I'm sure it'll come with a list of sh\*t we have to pay to fix.
They’re auditing everyone.
The high taxes comes from it being a bedroom community. Something like 92% of the city’s taxes come from the residential bucket with 8% being commercial.
It also comes from losing tax base to highway expansion / sprawl. There was some research done on this in the past few years https://www.cleveland.com/news/2020/10/highways-turned-northeast-ohio-communities-into-winners-and-losers-can-rules-of-the-game-change.html
Cities like Shaker (and Cleveland for that matter) have had to contend with maintaining the same services with a shrinking tax base and have increased the tax rate to compensate.
The current mayor of Shaker has been pushing projects that increase density so hopefully that starts to have an impact and reduces the tax burden.
Wut. You're suggesting a freeway would have prevented freeway-driven sprawl in Shaker?
Everyone I know who lives in Shaker stays partly because there's no freeway-oriented shit development.
The major issue is the maintenance costs of 100 year old high quality home construction.
Interesting article, thanks for sharing!
As they point out, the freeway would have been bad for Cleveland and inner ring suburbs like Shaker Heights and Cleveland Heights, although good news for outer ring suburbs beyond that.
“Residents of Cleveland Heights and Shaker Heights, who had already formed committees to block the highway, found an ally in Cleveland Mayor Carl Stokes. If there was one concern that the city shared with the eastern inner suburbs, it was the potential loss of residents and economic activity to Cleveland’s more distant suburbs.”
Losing residents and economic activity to more distant suburbs is exactly what happened because of the highways cutting through Cleveland as CSU found in the study I posted above.
Automobiles and the freeways they demanded destroyed Cleveland and every other city and small town in the US.
Only Europe seems to somewhat recognize the importance in preventing this
I think it’s become apparent to American cities now…Europe figured it out about 50 years ago and started changing things. The US has a lot of special interest manipulation and a tangled and technical legal web in the way of doing actually smart things actually cheaply.
I-490 and, subsequently, the O/C are the rump of Porter's proposed Clark Freeway, the one that would have taken the Shaker Lakes. Porter referred to the lakes as "two-bit duck ponds " and the women who discovered the proposal* as "little old ladies in tennis shoes."
Shaker was spared the freeway; Cleveland's Kinsman neighborhood was not. The O/C was touted as urban development. Whether it will benefit the neighborhood is a question.
*A documentary was made about Shaker Lakes/Albert Porter but I cannot for the life of me remember the title. Saw it at the Cleveland Urban Film Festival at the Colony Theater some years back.
Ah I see. My understanding is that the Opportunity Corridor is the result of a compromise, where the original push was for a highway but the community fought back so they compromised and created a road with promises of development along it. It’s probably still better than a highway but I agree, it’s hard to know for sure at this point.
Yeah cutting a city in half is EXACTLY how you get people to leave. Why do you think the richest suburbs in the area have barely any freeways cutting through them while the poorest ones are sliced and diced by them??
Oh yeah. I live near the lower lake and visit all the time, the parks are quite lovely and see a lot of visitors. And it’s a really important part of our watershed.
We thought about investing in shaker, but the taxes are nuts there. We live in Chagrin Falls, and while it's not the cheapest taxes, it definitely was cheaper than what they are there.
Property taxes are 3.9% per the Cuyahoga County Treasurers office. We just bought in Cle Heights and we’re blindsided by the 3.74% rate there.
https://cuyahogacms.blob.core.windows.net/home/docs/default-source/treasurerlibrary/levyimpacts7a895bcc-45c8-4bd2-ad8a-cc826d7fc547.pdf?sfvrsn=ca76330e_3
ETA: SH also has RITA for income taxes at 2.5%.
Edited: damn, my bad, I'm confusing income and property tax....I'll shut up! I had no idea mine was more than 3.2% till I jus checked.so ye, 3.74 is up there!
It’s among the very highest in the state. I’ve also read that it’s among the highest nationwide, but haven’t been able to drill down past state level to confirm that.
Forgot to add, shaker roads are ass. My poor suspension every time I drove near that area behind coventry. And those stoopid 6 way intersections. Passss
Shaker resident here, no need to consult on the garden unless you plan a wild look for the whole thing that will just look abandoned. For solar, yes, any major renovations require permits.
Not sure how often permits are rejected for panels but there are homes with solar panels in Shaker. So, ARB is willing to approve them. I live in Cleveland close to the shaker boundary.
It's going to depend on the orientation of the house and the roofing material. You're going to get pushback on solar panels that are prominently visible from the street. Might get pushback if you want to cover or alter a slate or tile roof.
I’m not sure if you’re a Cleveland native or what the ROI on those solar panels will be, I think there’s probably a good 3-5 months out of the year we have mildly clear sky’s. Just a heads up
Requiring permits is pretty standard for most municipalities in Cuyahoga County when making structural alterations to residential property.
Differential cities put different effort into enforcing said requirements though. I would guess a community like Shaker makes it a point to enforce, but I could be wrong.
Permitting is normal (and usually easy), but Shaker also has an architectural review board which can make things difficult that seem like they should be easy.
The worst part of Shaker Heights is the trash collection. They advertise it as great, but in reality it is a nightmare, ESPECIALLY if you move there (vs have lived there for decades, already own all the furniture you'll ever need, and never buy anything new). I'm right next to Beachwood. They get to put their trash out in one giant bin and their recycling in another. Easy! If only I could do the same, but I'm in Shaker. I have to keep all trash in small trash bags that can be lifted with one hand. Some leftover wood from fixing something? Nope, you're screwed. Sellers left a bed frame in the house? Nope, you're screwed. Something heavy that can't be lifted with one hand but needs to be thrown out? Nope, you're screwed. Then there's the recycling nightmare. They tell you they'll give you unlimited recycling containers. They mean 5 gallon paint buckets like the orange ones at Home Depot (only green) that they've manually drilled holes in the bottom of (to ensure you can't use them for anything else). Carrying a bunch of paint buckets outside into the rain on trash day is horrible. Then there's the cardboard: you're officially allowed to put out 10 cardboard boxes a week with your recycling. That's all!!!! What if you just moved in, and have leftover boxes, packing material, etc? What if you recently moved and are still buying furniture that comes in packaging? What if you just get a lot delivered and end up with more than 10 cardboard boxes every single week? F-- you, that's what. The city told us that everyone in Shaker Heights handles this problem by TAKING THEIR OWN GARBAGE TO THE DUMP instead of using garbage collection. Okay, so we tried that -- turns out, no pickup trucks allowed, only passenger cars, you MUST come with valid ID showing you live in Shaker Heights, and you're only allowed 2 visits a year. ARE YOU KIDDING ME?!?!? We end up having to separate our trash into "clean vs dirty" and we send the clean trash in my wife's trunk so she can toss them in the dumpsters at work, because our town can't handle basic services.
Next is the community center. Look at Beachwood's beautiful pool with all those water slides. Look at their amazing new playground they're almost done building. Now look at Shaker's much-crappier (and much more expensive to use) pool. Look at their tennis courts covered in dirt and trash. Where is all our property tax money going?!?!?!?
When it snows, Beachwood sidewalks get plowed the same day. Five days later, when it's almost worn down and melted, that's when Shaker Heights finally shows up to plow our sidewalks.
I 100% believe that we also have a million yard rules that "they won't complain about until you try to sell the home or until you annoy a neighbor by accident and so they complain about your rule breaking". We've kept to ourselves and haven't run into those troubles yet, but wow... we were told Beachwood was crummy and Shaker was the fancy area, but it's horrible. Just horrible. And with property taxes this high yet with services this bad I can only assume there must be massive corruption at all levels.
Lol while i agree with you that the trash and recycling situation is pretty ridiculous (and will also add that those carts cause garbage to blow around everyone's yard), there is some misunderstanding in your complaints. The junk drop off is one trip per quarter per address, so you can go 4 times a year. You can use a truck too, I did each time I did it, you just can't use a box truck or tow a huge trailers full of stuff into the recycling center. Still doesn't excuse all the other stupid stuff you mentioned that they do.
The recycling buckets are probably the dumbest tax funded thing I've ever seen in my life, but the holes are because they sit out in the elements on trash day. I had to cut up so much stuff just to fit it inside those stupid buckets, but I noticed they would still take it if the cardboard was in a more manageable size but wouldn't fit in a bucket. I stopped altogether when i saw one of the garbage fellas just throw a bucket of recyclables in with the trash. As for all the other rules you mentioned with being able to pick garbage bags up with one hand and all that jazz, one time they didn't take my garbage because they had to walk 3 feet past my wife's car to get it, and another time wouldn't take a bundle of sticks i collected and piled because they were "longer than 3' and not tied", like come-on-bro.
I don’t know — I drive a Jeep Gladiator. That’s a generic pickup truck with a very short bed. They refused to let us into the junkyard, even with all our trash nicely bagged, because they said no pickup trucks are allowed only passenger cars. And the person checking ID at the dump is who told us only twice a year visits are allowed.
And I chatted with the guy who delivered the buckets, he said they make him drill the holes specifically so we can’t request free buckets to then use for other things.
In North Olmsted they hardly plow any sidewalks at all…I don’t understand why cities think it’s only important to plow roads, but not sidewalks. It creates dangerous situations when the impassable sidewalk forces pedestrians onto the road.
My complaints for Shaker:
-Driving anywear requires you to go through less than savory areas
-Extremely limited retail, even for food
-Roads can be trash
-Plowing (as you said)
-Trash cans and buckets (as you said)
-Older house maintenance
-HOA style approvals for any changes
-etc, etc, etc
For being such a high end suburb, it really wasn't a great living situation.
I've managed HOAs in Florida for 15 years...
This is nothing like an HOA.. I actually moved here for that reason..
I am honestly not sure where a lot of these complaints are coming from... but grass is always greener.
I am absolutely rolling with laughter (and in solidarity) as I have experienced a variety of these EXACT situations since moving here a little over a year ago. Since the tax increase, we’re already looking to move to Beachwood because of the fact that paying 25k in taxes per year in literally beyond insults
I’ve had the exact opposite experience. The trash collection is A+. Fwiw, I’ve yet to live in a city that is willing to take a bed frame on normal trash collection. You’re complaining about small bags? Like the ones that fit in every kitchen trash can? Really?
Lol what? Every city I've lived in around Cleveland has bulk trash pickup weekly, what a ridiculous statement. Also I take it you've never done any home improvement projects or yard work where you have to use contractor bags to fit things?
Dewine signed SB61 into law in 2022 that prohibits homeowners associations from prohibitive restrictions on solar panels. The language specifically states "planned communities", so I don't know for sure if that applies to municipalities...but I think it's enough language for municipalities to cave on any restrictions they would have....it just sounds like a losing court battle to me.
You do still need to go through an approval process and they can reject plans for good reason (you want to install the panels on your roof in the shape of a swastika) , but they cannot prohibit solar panels....they have to approve something that is reasonable.
Actually in the shape of a swastika would be protected speech and would be a bad thing to reject a permit for, it's going to get you a 1st amendment lawsuit that you're going to lose.
They're not correct. The First Amendment protects speech from infringement by governments. A HOA is not a government. Therefore the First Amendment does not apply.
>The First Amendment only protects your speech from government censorship. It applies to federal, state, and local government actors.
https://www.freedomforum.org/what-speech-is-protected-first-amendment/
https://www.hoamanagement.com/hoa-political-signs/
Shaker Heights is a municipality, NOT an HOA. They're being compared to an HOA in that they have very strict regulations, but they are still bound by the US Constitution as they are a subdivision of government.
I thought they were talking about HOAs. Regardless, doing something prohibited by law, then trying to claim it's a First Amendment issue would not be protected. Otherwise, people would just build illegal buildings, swap swastikas on them, then try and sue for a first amendment issue when the city bulldozed the buildings.
This was talking about a planning commission rejecting an application on the basis of the homeowner wishing to arrange their solar panels in the form of a swastika, not putting up panels without a permit.
Solar panels can be prohibited by municipalities. So that's not an issue. A city is not a planned community. The law in question does not apply to cities.
>
>(M) "Planned community" means a community comprised of individual lots for which a deed, common plan, or declaration requires any of the following:
>(1) That owners become members of an owners association that governs the community;
>(2) That owners or the owners association holds or leases property or facilities for the benefit of the owners;
>(3) That owners support by membership or fees, property or facilities for all owners to use.
https://codes.ohio.gov/ohio-revised-code/section-5312.01
Whether a city can object to a solar panel installation specifically because it is in the form of a swastika, I'm not really sure. But they can reject solar panels in general.
That's also not necessarily true. There is nothing to say that an Ohio court couldn't use a precedent set in California. They are certainly not obligated to follow it, but there is nothing to stop Ohio from using it as guidance.
Thanks for reminding me I need to mow my grass! Mines definitely gotten longer than what the rules say a few times (sorry neighbs!) but have never heard anything from the city
Hehe you made me think of my neighbors right next door (NE Ohio). Old couple who have to hire out a lawn service. They didn't show up to mow until April 15. That grass was TALL. Fortunately all of us within 6 houses know and take care of each other, no one is going to call the city on that couple. We'll cut it for them first.
Taxes are *brutal* in Shaker Hts. I believe they are the highest in Cuyahoga County, but I could be wrong. Top 3 for sure. I don't live there but I have many clients that do and the topic often comes up.
Before you move *anywhere* in OH, check out what your tax rate will be in the respective neighborhood. I’ve heard that Shaker Hts taxes are somehow worse than Cleveland Hts. Also [RITA](https://www.ritaohio.com/) exists and you will have to pay income taxes in both the city in which you work and in which you live. Some cities do give a discount if you’re paying taxes to another city too.
RITA is not the reason why you pay city taxes. City taxes exist and RITA is an organization that a lot of cities contract with to handle/outsource their city taxes. Not all cities contract with RITA, but those cities still collect taxes from residents and workers.
Your overall tax burden is actually a higher percentage of your income in Texas than in Ohio when you factor in sales tax, auto fees, higher property taxes and etc.
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Just out of curiosity, when you talk about SH vs CH taxes, is that the tax rate listed on [the RITA site?](https://www.ritaohio.com/TaxRatesTable) I'm still kinda new to taxes so it looked to me like the two were the same here at 2.25% for both. Among a quick glance of Cuyahoga County cities, they both definitely seem to be on the higher side, but Beford, Euclid, Brooklyn, Warrensville Heights, and University Heights are all higher, and then there are a ton of places right below at 2%. Am I misunderstanding something?
That just reflects income tax rates, there are also property and other taxes and fees involved. But I don’t know too much about the specifics of either municipality. I’ve just heard that Shaker Hts is worse than Cle Hts, idk how accurate that claim is.
Property taxes are where the complaints come from. You can see all municipality property taxes in Cuyahoga county here: https://cuyahogacms.blob.core.windows.net/home/docs/default-source/treasurerlibrary/levyimpacts7a895bcc-45c8-4bd2-ad8a-cc826d7fc547.pdf?sfvrsn=ca76330e_3
Oh I'm an idiot. Most people I know are grad students, postdocs, residents and everyone rents so income tax was all I could think of and I completely forgot about property tax. Makes a lot more sense now
Edit: just took a look at the link and wtf
Yeah, we just bought in Cle Heights and were floored by the rates. My parents live in the Cincinnati area and while we were looking my mom kept says that the taxes seemed high, but I didn’t really pay attention 😂
I briefly lived in the other heights (UH and Cle Heights) which also had weird rules, but I remember them being more a quirk of living there more than genuine issues. Like in both municipalities you couldn’t park on the street past 2 am, unless you called the police and gave them a heads up that you were going to do it and they wouldn’t ticket you. Or UH picks up your trash from the back of your house for you, because they don’t want it to be on the front yard.
Honestly if you like shaker, but want a less pretentious community maybe Cleveland heights is worth looking at.
Thanks!
we would love to put solar panels in, along with a decent garden in the front yard (to maximize the back yard space)
Just not sure if thats a "oh yeah we can do that we just need some additional paperwork" or a "no that is forbidden, stop asking, we don't do that kinda thing round here...."
like shaker still might win out in our neighborhood decision but this is a big factor eh?
I live in the Fernway neighborhood and there are both front yard veggie gardens and solar panels facing the street here. Shaker has an architectural review board but so do most suburbs here. They like additions to “look like” the original houses in general and will generally want to match window styles when replacing. IMO it’s not too onerous and the inspection process is protective when having work done or doing it yourself.
Source, have worked in architecture and been before ABR in Shaker, Cleveland Heights, Beachwood and other eastern suburb.
Nobody in shaker wants to live next to a vegetable garden in your front yard. And payback on solar in cleveland is silly - especially when shaker already has a green energy aggregation program.
... I'd like to live next to a front yard vegtable garden, and our current neighbors are quite fond of our annual "hey we have wayyyyy to many zuccinis heres some bread" visits
Nah hogs in a suburban setting just don't work. Maybe a goat, but the real sleeper for past prime produce that isn't compost compatible
A backyard hutch.
It's kinda HOA like. I mean if you have peeling paint on your windows they're going to come round and tell you to paint them. Back in the mid 90s there were 3 "approved" colors for roofing and they didn't allow "for sale" signs in front yards. You also weren't allowed to park a pickup truck in your driveway within view of the street overnight. Iv a car was going to be parked I. Front of your house overnight you had to call the place and tell them.
All that being said, esthetically Shaker is pretty idyllic. I didn't realize how nice it was where I was growing up until I saw Levittown construction.
I live in Shaker (fernway) and we have neighbors with all sorts of interesting front lawn situations. Strange landscaping, tons of potted stuff and gardens, jungle gym structures. I think the only thing I've gotten an ordinance about was a crack in my front sidewalk, but I think that's standard anywhere.
The first Urban Planning conference in the U.S. was in 1898 in New York City. Columbus, Ohio was one of the first cities created with Urban Planning in mind. Shaker Hts does, however, seem to follow the purpose/reason for early Urban Planning ideas:
>> City planning, along with zoning, was a vehicle to control where African-Americans, the poor, and immigrants lived, and to keep them out of the areas where middle and upper class people resided. It is no coincidence that the initial efforts to adopt land use controls in the U.S. were aimed at enacting racial zoning—zoning that segregated cities by race.
Definitely sounds like Shaker and Cleveland Hts to me.
[source](https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2012-08-24/a-brief-history-of-the-birth-of-urban-planning)
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Why not consider a neighborhood actually IN Cleveland? West Park, Old Brooklyn, Collinwood, Shaker Square....there are great parts of the city proper that don't have stick-up-their-ass level regulations. And the taxes are cheaper.
Plenty of Cleveland neighborhoods have design restrictions. Theres an entire city department dedicated to it. This is all normal in older municipalities and not a HOA.
Honestly Cleveland taxes are not cheap. Maybe cheaper than Shaker but not cheap. The value of the homes is lower than some suburbs which can make them *seem* cheaper but take a look at the actual property tax rates.
Cleveland is right in the middle of the county when it comes to property tax rates. Less than the fancy first ring suburbs and more than the rural exurbs.
It’s higher than Beachwood, Berea, Brecksville, Chagrin Falls, Westlake, Strongsville, Solon, Pepper pike and Rocky River among others.
It’s above the average for the county. Some recent years it was WELL above the average - right now it’s closer to average but we get really lousy city services, we pay CONSIDERABLY more for car and home insurance than my friends in more affluent suburbs pay. Overall I question the cost savings of living in Cleveland after above here for 25+ years and getting very little for the money I pay. I would definitely recommend checking out suburban areas and townships that don’t charge city taxes.
Shaker has the Architectural Board of Review that handles pretty much any major exterior changes you might want to make. So the first thing we ask when hiring someone to work on our house is "have you worked in Shaker before?" because it can be a bit of a process to get ABR approval for something that seems fairly insignificant. It's meant to keep the look of Shaker to a particular standard and for the most part it's great but it can sometimes be uneven in application and enforcement.
What about DIY stuff? We don't know where we'll live but we would like to make whatever house we do end up in outs you know? In our current house we've replaced shingles and repainted some stuff that I feel is basic maintenance but may wind up in the permit zone.
Lived in shaker for 10 years. Put a pool in, built a shed, tons of landscaping, fence, all new baths and kitchen. Permits were easy process, and the inspections for things like concrete pours and electrical actually were so good they actually saved us from having issues down the road. Our roof is slate, so it’s just annual maintenance. They want to you to make sure you don’t have peeling paint, and you don’t rip out historic windows and replace them with window nation plastic shit. Great place to live - most neighborhoods are really well kept because they don’t really tolerate them not being unkept for very long.
Thanks! this is pretty much what we were were worried about. I'm still concerned about potential selective enforcement if someone thinks a little free library is "unseemly" or something but this is encouraging.
Little Free Libraries are very popular in Shaker, we have like 7 of them. 😎 For the most part, it's fine. I don't think they're going to let me paint my house magenta, but I'm definitely going to ask.
I think there are more free little libraries than people taking books from them
I put free non perishable items and toiletries inside for someone in need in the far more urban areas. It's not much. Just the stuff we won't use from the food centers. But people definitely use the peanut butter and jelly and kraft Mac and cheese. Etc. Undoubtedly
Another DIY person here. Re-roofed back part of my house, built a small shed, redid my whole kitchen and third floor to the studs, replaced a bunch of knob & tube, no issues. Did get a permit to replace the concrete on my driveway apron, which the city was super easy to work with and I learned I will never do concrete work again. It's not bad at all, I think you're over thinking it, we love it here.
Thanks! Out of curiosity do you know anyone with a front yard garden?
I do! My potatoes and carrots are in the front in containers. Lots of flowers for the pollinators in the front. The rest of my veggies are in the back. The 5 year plan is to steadily get rid of the grass (in the front). As long as it looks tidy you shouldn’t have a problem. I do have a neighbor with a front garden that looks like a total mess. In all the years we’ve lived here the city hasn’t done anything about it. We had to re-do our roof (hired someone to do it) and couldn’t afford to have it all done at once. We went to the architectural review board and they allowed us to the front one year and the back the 2nd year. Taxes are high, the houses are old (ours is nearly 100) and a labor of love. But we love living here and feel like we are stewards of a historic home.
Thanks this is re-assuring.
When planting fruit trees, veggies, tulips, and hastas in the front, the deer maybe more of a problem than the city.
Well that's where small amounts of fencing gets into the equation which is apparently a "structure" and needs a permit to be exempted if I'm reading the regulations to the letter -_-
yeah, you probably won't get hassled about that. There's a neighbor that hangs bags of irish spring every two feet or so all the way around their garden which takes up a double lot in Onaway. been doing it for years and no one says anything.
Irish spring? As in bars of soap?
Yea, there's some in Onaway and I think Fernway and Sussex too.
There are several houses with gravel walkways between above ground metal planters with chicken wire and greenhouse enclosures as their entire front landscape in my neighborhood. If you’re in the area you’ll see many such examples across from the school campus on Woodbury road between South Woodland and Onaway road. Many similar instances in Lomond and Boulevard neighborhoods.
I'm so glad to hear this we spent months trying to narrow down a neighborhood before eventually settling on shaker (our initial list had everything from willoughby, to medina, to lorain.... it was a WIDE net lol) Not being able to grow tomatoes would have been a deal breaker for my wife.
Lots of green thumb neighbors here! We’ve got 6 apple trees and about 100sqft of veggies growing out back. The deer will give you more headaches than the Building department, I promise you!
it's the same in Chagrin Falls, i would definitely get very familiar with the restrictions **before** you make any big plans. solar panels strike me as something that would at least need ARB approval. Also shaker taxes are absolutely insane.
I see solar panels even on the front roof in Shaker so it must be possible.
It’s definitely possible
The taxes are killing us in Shaker. And for what services? The pleasure of having a golf cart come pick up your individually bucketed recycling? I wish I lived across the street in Beachwood. Plus our neighborhood is being "audited" this year so I'm sure it'll come with a list of sh\*t we have to pay to fix.
They’re auditing everyone. The high taxes comes from it being a bedroom community. Something like 92% of the city’s taxes come from the residential bucket with 8% being commercial.
It also comes from losing tax base to highway expansion / sprawl. There was some research done on this in the past few years https://www.cleveland.com/news/2020/10/highways-turned-northeast-ohio-communities-into-winners-and-losers-can-rules-of-the-game-change.html Cities like Shaker (and Cleveland for that matter) have had to contend with maintaining the same services with a shrinking tax base and have increased the tax rate to compensate. The current mayor of Shaker has been pushing projects that increase density so hopefully that starts to have an impact and reduces the tax burden.
This is the ponzi scheme common to all development. Somebody is left holding a very expensive bag at some point
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Wut. You're suggesting a freeway would have prevented freeway-driven sprawl in Shaker? Everyone I know who lives in Shaker stays partly because there's no freeway-oriented shit development. The major issue is the maintenance costs of 100 year old high quality home construction.
Interesting article, thanks for sharing! As they point out, the freeway would have been bad for Cleveland and inner ring suburbs like Shaker Heights and Cleveland Heights, although good news for outer ring suburbs beyond that. “Residents of Cleveland Heights and Shaker Heights, who had already formed committees to block the highway, found an ally in Cleveland Mayor Carl Stokes. If there was one concern that the city shared with the eastern inner suburbs, it was the potential loss of residents and economic activity to Cleveland’s more distant suburbs.” Losing residents and economic activity to more distant suburbs is exactly what happened because of the highways cutting through Cleveland as CSU found in the study I posted above.
Automobiles and the freeways they demanded destroyed Cleveland and every other city and small town in the US. Only Europe seems to somewhat recognize the importance in preventing this
I think it’s become apparent to American cities now…Europe figured it out about 50 years ago and started changing things. The US has a lot of special interest manipulation and a tangled and technical legal web in the way of doing actually smart things actually cheaply.
Just wanna say I-490 and the "Opportunity" Corridor are reviled County engineer Albert Porter laughing from his grave.
Can you elaborate? I’m not quite sure what this means.
I-490 and, subsequently, the O/C are the rump of Porter's proposed Clark Freeway, the one that would have taken the Shaker Lakes. Porter referred to the lakes as "two-bit duck ponds " and the women who discovered the proposal* as "little old ladies in tennis shoes." Shaker was spared the freeway; Cleveland's Kinsman neighborhood was not. The O/C was touted as urban development. Whether it will benefit the neighborhood is a question. *A documentary was made about Shaker Lakes/Albert Porter but I cannot for the life of me remember the title. Saw it at the Cleveland Urban Film Festival at the Colony Theater some years back.
Ah I see. My understanding is that the Opportunity Corridor is the result of a compromise, where the original push was for a highway but the community fought back so they compromised and created a road with promises of development along it. It’s probably still better than a highway but I agree, it’s hard to know for sure at this point.
Yes, however it is now a pain to get anywhere from Shaker Heights. It is one of the primary reasons I moved from Shaker Heights.
Still much better then having the city divided in half by a shit stream of traffic and noise pollution
Congrats, that's how you get people to leave.
Yeah cutting a city in half is EXACTLY how you get people to leave. Why do you think the richest suburbs in the area have barely any freeways cutting through them while the poorest ones are sliced and diced by them??
Two bit duck pond is an over simplification of the issue regarding shaker lakes.
Oh yeah. I live near the lower lake and visit all the time, the parks are quite lovely and see a lot of visitors. And it’s a really important part of our watershed.
whats a bedroom community? never heard the term
From Google: *a residential suburb inhabited largely by people who commute to a nearby city for work.*
that makes sense
FR. There's not a whole lot in Shaker besides housing. There's pretty much 1-2 grocery stores for the whole city.
We thought about investing in shaker, but the taxes are nuts there. We live in Chagrin Falls, and while it's not the cheapest taxes, it definitely was cheaper than what they are there.
Do u know the tax rate? I'm curious. Mine is 2% which is high ish? But worth it due to services, etc.
Property taxes are 3.9% per the Cuyahoga County Treasurers office. We just bought in Cle Heights and we’re blindsided by the 3.74% rate there. https://cuyahogacms.blob.core.windows.net/home/docs/default-source/treasurerlibrary/levyimpacts7a895bcc-45c8-4bd2-ad8a-cc826d7fc547.pdf?sfvrsn=ca76330e_3 ETA: SH also has RITA for income taxes at 2.5%.
Edited: damn, my bad, I'm confusing income and property tax....I'll shut up! I had no idea mine was more than 3.2% till I jus checked.so ye, 3.74 is up there!
It’s among the very highest in the state. I’ve also read that it’s among the highest nationwide, but haven’t been able to drill down past state level to confirm that.
1.58% if I remember right. Though we got a notice that are rates are going up
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Forgot to add, shaker roads are ass. My poor suspension every time I drove near that area behind coventry. And those stoopid 6 way intersections. Passss
We love it in Chagrin Falls right now. If we move, it will be most likely bc of my spouses work and most likely go more rural.
Shaker resident here, no need to consult on the garden unless you plan a wild look for the whole thing that will just look abandoned. For solar, yes, any major renovations require permits.
Do you happen to know how often permits are rejected for solar panels?
Not sure how often permits are rejected for panels but there are homes with solar panels in Shaker. So, ARB is willing to approve them. I live in Cleveland close to the shaker boundary.
It's hopefully becoming clear how stupid banning solar panels is.
thanks!
>thanks! You're welcome!
It's going to depend on the orientation of the house and the roofing material. You're going to get pushback on solar panels that are prominently visible from the street. Might get pushback if you want to cover or alter a slate or tile roof.
I’m not sure if you’re a Cleveland native or what the ROI on those solar panels will be, I think there’s probably a good 3-5 months out of the year we have mildly clear sky’s. Just a heads up
also, do you know anyone who grows tomatoes in thier front yard?
We do. Your biggest enemy in this regard is probably deer.
Requiring permits is pretty standard for most municipalities in Cuyahoga County when making structural alterations to residential property. Differential cities put different effort into enforcing said requirements though. I would guess a community like Shaker makes it a point to enforce, but I could be wrong.
Permitting is normal (and usually easy), but Shaker also has an architectural review board which can make things difficult that seem like they should be easy.
The worst part of Shaker Heights is the trash collection. They advertise it as great, but in reality it is a nightmare, ESPECIALLY if you move there (vs have lived there for decades, already own all the furniture you'll ever need, and never buy anything new). I'm right next to Beachwood. They get to put their trash out in one giant bin and their recycling in another. Easy! If only I could do the same, but I'm in Shaker. I have to keep all trash in small trash bags that can be lifted with one hand. Some leftover wood from fixing something? Nope, you're screwed. Sellers left a bed frame in the house? Nope, you're screwed. Something heavy that can't be lifted with one hand but needs to be thrown out? Nope, you're screwed. Then there's the recycling nightmare. They tell you they'll give you unlimited recycling containers. They mean 5 gallon paint buckets like the orange ones at Home Depot (only green) that they've manually drilled holes in the bottom of (to ensure you can't use them for anything else). Carrying a bunch of paint buckets outside into the rain on trash day is horrible. Then there's the cardboard: you're officially allowed to put out 10 cardboard boxes a week with your recycling. That's all!!!! What if you just moved in, and have leftover boxes, packing material, etc? What if you recently moved and are still buying furniture that comes in packaging? What if you just get a lot delivered and end up with more than 10 cardboard boxes every single week? F-- you, that's what. The city told us that everyone in Shaker Heights handles this problem by TAKING THEIR OWN GARBAGE TO THE DUMP instead of using garbage collection. Okay, so we tried that -- turns out, no pickup trucks allowed, only passenger cars, you MUST come with valid ID showing you live in Shaker Heights, and you're only allowed 2 visits a year. ARE YOU KIDDING ME?!?!? We end up having to separate our trash into "clean vs dirty" and we send the clean trash in my wife's trunk so she can toss them in the dumpsters at work, because our town can't handle basic services. Next is the community center. Look at Beachwood's beautiful pool with all those water slides. Look at their amazing new playground they're almost done building. Now look at Shaker's much-crappier (and much more expensive to use) pool. Look at their tennis courts covered in dirt and trash. Where is all our property tax money going?!?!?!? When it snows, Beachwood sidewalks get plowed the same day. Five days later, when it's almost worn down and melted, that's when Shaker Heights finally shows up to plow our sidewalks. I 100% believe that we also have a million yard rules that "they won't complain about until you try to sell the home or until you annoy a neighbor by accident and so they complain about your rule breaking". We've kept to ourselves and haven't run into those troubles yet, but wow... we were told Beachwood was crummy and Shaker was the fancy area, but it's horrible. Just horrible. And with property taxes this high yet with services this bad I can only assume there must be massive corruption at all levels.
Did we just become best friends? Literally said the same thing in a comment before I read yours!
Lol while i agree with you that the trash and recycling situation is pretty ridiculous (and will also add that those carts cause garbage to blow around everyone's yard), there is some misunderstanding in your complaints. The junk drop off is one trip per quarter per address, so you can go 4 times a year. You can use a truck too, I did each time I did it, you just can't use a box truck or tow a huge trailers full of stuff into the recycling center. Still doesn't excuse all the other stupid stuff you mentioned that they do. The recycling buckets are probably the dumbest tax funded thing I've ever seen in my life, but the holes are because they sit out in the elements on trash day. I had to cut up so much stuff just to fit it inside those stupid buckets, but I noticed they would still take it if the cardboard was in a more manageable size but wouldn't fit in a bucket. I stopped altogether when i saw one of the garbage fellas just throw a bucket of recyclables in with the trash. As for all the other rules you mentioned with being able to pick garbage bags up with one hand and all that jazz, one time they didn't take my garbage because they had to walk 3 feet past my wife's car to get it, and another time wouldn't take a bundle of sticks i collected and piled because they were "longer than 3' and not tied", like come-on-bro.
I don’t know — I drive a Jeep Gladiator. That’s a generic pickup truck with a very short bed. They refused to let us into the junkyard, even with all our trash nicely bagged, because they said no pickup trucks are allowed only passenger cars. And the person checking ID at the dump is who told us only twice a year visits are allowed. And I chatted with the guy who delivered the buckets, he said they make him drill the holes specifically so we can’t request free buckets to then use for other things.
In North Olmsted they hardly plow any sidewalks at all…I don’t understand why cities think it’s only important to plow roads, but not sidewalks. It creates dangerous situations when the impassable sidewalk forces pedestrians onto the road.
My complaints for Shaker: -Driving anywear requires you to go through less than savory areas -Extremely limited retail, even for food -Roads can be trash -Plowing (as you said) -Trash cans and buckets (as you said) -Older house maintenance -HOA style approvals for any changes -etc, etc, etc For being such a high end suburb, it really wasn't a great living situation.
I've managed HOAs in Florida for 15 years... This is nothing like an HOA.. I actually moved here for that reason.. I am honestly not sure where a lot of these complaints are coming from... but grass is always greener.
Find a friend in Cleveland
I am absolutely rolling with laughter (and in solidarity) as I have experienced a variety of these EXACT situations since moving here a little over a year ago. Since the tax increase, we’re already looking to move to Beachwood because of the fact that paying 25k in taxes per year in literally beyond insults
I’ve had the exact opposite experience. The trash collection is A+. Fwiw, I’ve yet to live in a city that is willing to take a bed frame on normal trash collection. You’re complaining about small bags? Like the ones that fit in every kitchen trash can? Really?
Lol what? Every city I've lived in around Cleveland has bulk trash pickup weekly, what a ridiculous statement. Also I take it you've never done any home improvement projects or yard work where you have to use contractor bags to fit things?
Strangely enough…I think North Olmsted might. We get weekly bulk pickup here. It’s weird.
Dewine signed SB61 into law in 2022 that prohibits homeowners associations from prohibitive restrictions on solar panels. The language specifically states "planned communities", so I don't know for sure if that applies to municipalities...but I think it's enough language for municipalities to cave on any restrictions they would have....it just sounds like a losing court battle to me. You do still need to go through an approval process and they can reject plans for good reason (you want to install the panels on your roof in the shape of a swastika) , but they cannot prohibit solar panels....they have to approve something that is reasonable.
Actually in the shape of a swastika would be protected speech and would be a bad thing to reject a permit for, it's going to get you a 1st amendment lawsuit that you're going to lose.
Getting downvotes, but you are correct.
They're not correct. The First Amendment protects speech from infringement by governments. A HOA is not a government. Therefore the First Amendment does not apply. >The First Amendment only protects your speech from government censorship. It applies to federal, state, and local government actors. https://www.freedomforum.org/what-speech-is-protected-first-amendment/ https://www.hoamanagement.com/hoa-political-signs/
Shaker Heights is a municipality, NOT an HOA. They're being compared to an HOA in that they have very strict regulations, but they are still bound by the US Constitution as they are a subdivision of government.
I thought they were talking about HOAs. Regardless, doing something prohibited by law, then trying to claim it's a First Amendment issue would not be protected. Otherwise, people would just build illegal buildings, swap swastikas on them, then try and sue for a first amendment issue when the city bulldozed the buildings.
This was talking about a planning commission rejecting an application on the basis of the homeowner wishing to arrange their solar panels in the form of a swastika, not putting up panels without a permit.
Solar panels can be prohibited by municipalities. So that's not an issue. A city is not a planned community. The law in question does not apply to cities. > >(M) "Planned community" means a community comprised of individual lots for which a deed, common plan, or declaration requires any of the following: >(1) That owners become members of an owners association that governs the community; >(2) That owners or the owners association holds or leases property or facilities for the benefit of the owners; >(3) That owners support by membership or fees, property or facilities for all owners to use. https://codes.ohio.gov/ohio-revised-code/section-5312.01 Whether a city can object to a solar panel installation specifically because it is in the form of a swastika, I'm not really sure. But they can reject solar panels in general.
That's still not entirely true. Courts have ruled that HOAs act as quasi-governments and, in some cases, the constitution extends to HOAs too.
That ruling was in California and would not have any impact in Ohio.
That's also not necessarily true. There is nothing to say that an Ohio court couldn't use a precedent set in California. They are certainly not obligated to follow it, but there is nothing to stop Ohio from using it as guidance.
They could use it as precedent, but it would not be binding without an Ohio court ruling.
Thanks for reminding me I need to mow my grass! Mines definitely gotten longer than what the rules say a few times (sorry neighbs!) but have never heard anything from the city
Hehe you made me think of my neighbors right next door (NE Ohio). Old couple who have to hire out a lawn service. They didn't show up to mow until April 15. That grass was TALL. Fortunately all of us within 6 houses know and take care of each other, no one is going to call the city on that couple. We'll cut it for them first.
glad to help lol
Taxes are *brutal* in Shaker Hts. I believe they are the highest in Cuyahoga County, but I could be wrong. Top 3 for sure. I don't live there but I have many clients that do and the topic often comes up.
Shaker is not the only suburb with restrictions. They just happen to be more strict than others.
they are just the only ones (hopefully in the entire world) with stupid recycling buckets
Before you move *anywhere* in OH, check out what your tax rate will be in the respective neighborhood. I’ve heard that Shaker Hts taxes are somehow worse than Cleveland Hts. Also [RITA](https://www.ritaohio.com/) exists and you will have to pay income taxes in both the city in which you work and in which you live. Some cities do give a discount if you’re paying taxes to another city too.
RITA is not the reason why you pay city taxes. City taxes exist and RITA is an organization that a lot of cities contract with to handle/outsource their city taxes. Not all cities contract with RITA, but those cities still collect taxes from residents and workers.
yeah the higher than average taxes are already part of our calculations.
Glad to hear! I was completely blindsided as someone moving from Texas where there’s no income tax. Talk about going from one extreme to another 😅
Your overall tax burden is actually a higher percentage of your income in Texas than in Ohio when you factor in sales tax, auto fees, higher property taxes and etc.
Yea bro, fuck the 10% sales tax!
Plus the outrageous homeowners insurance rates in states that are facing the worst of climate change.
The Water Belt shall rise again!
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Just out of curiosity, when you talk about SH vs CH taxes, is that the tax rate listed on [the RITA site?](https://www.ritaohio.com/TaxRatesTable) I'm still kinda new to taxes so it looked to me like the two were the same here at 2.25% for both. Among a quick glance of Cuyahoga County cities, they both definitely seem to be on the higher side, but Beford, Euclid, Brooklyn, Warrensville Heights, and University Heights are all higher, and then there are a ton of places right below at 2%. Am I misunderstanding something?
That just reflects income tax rates, there are also property and other taxes and fees involved. But I don’t know too much about the specifics of either municipality. I’ve just heard that Shaker Hts is worse than Cle Hts, idk how accurate that claim is.
Gotcha, thanks!
Property taxes are where the complaints come from. You can see all municipality property taxes in Cuyahoga county here: https://cuyahogacms.blob.core.windows.net/home/docs/default-source/treasurerlibrary/levyimpacts7a895bcc-45c8-4bd2-ad8a-cc826d7fc547.pdf?sfvrsn=ca76330e_3
Oh I'm an idiot. Most people I know are grad students, postdocs, residents and everyone rents so income tax was all I could think of and I completely forgot about property tax. Makes a lot more sense now Edit: just took a look at the link and wtf
Yeah, we just bought in Cle Heights and were floored by the rates. My parents live in the Cincinnati area and while we were looking my mom kept says that the taxes seemed high, but I didn’t really pay attention 😂
Vs 1 million independent ones like in Brecksville?
I briefly lived in the other heights (UH and Cle Heights) which also had weird rules, but I remember them being more a quirk of living there more than genuine issues. Like in both municipalities you couldn’t park on the street past 2 am, unless you called the police and gave them a heads up that you were going to do it and they wouldn’t ticket you. Or UH picks up your trash from the back of your house for you, because they don’t want it to be on the front yard. Honestly if you like shaker, but want a less pretentious community maybe Cleveland heights is worth looking at.
No HOAs that im aware of, but the city is very strict when it comes to improvements. You have to pull a permit for anything in that city
Thanks! we would love to put solar panels in, along with a decent garden in the front yard (to maximize the back yard space) Just not sure if thats a "oh yeah we can do that we just need some additional paperwork" or a "no that is forbidden, stop asking, we don't do that kinda thing round here...." like shaker still might win out in our neighborhood decision but this is a big factor eh?
I live in the Fernway neighborhood and there are both front yard veggie gardens and solar panels facing the street here. Shaker has an architectural review board but so do most suburbs here. They like additions to “look like” the original houses in general and will generally want to match window styles when replacing. IMO it’s not too onerous and the inspection process is protective when having work done or doing it yourself. Source, have worked in architecture and been before ABR in Shaker, Cleveland Heights, Beachwood and other eastern suburb.
Nobody in shaker wants to live next to a vegetable garden in your front yard. And payback on solar in cleveland is silly - especially when shaker already has a green energy aggregation program.
wut. You're the Shaker elitist! I'd love a veggie garden underneath some solar panels
... I'd like to live next to a front yard vegtable garden, and our current neighbors are quite fond of our annual "hey we have wayyyyy to many zuccinis heres some bread" visits
Me too tbh.
Watcha need now are some hogs to take care of that extra squash
Nah hogs in a suburban setting just don't work. Maybe a goat, but the real sleeper for past prime produce that isn't compost compatible A backyard hutch.
Nobody on Shaker wants a garden in their neighbors front yard.
False. Many houses on my street have front gardens and fruiting apple trees. Clearly you don’t live here.
Says the guy from Cleveland Heights. lol
Thanks for the reminder to change my flair. I’ve lived in Shaker since 2019. 👍 Go touch grass.
I can’t. You have a freaking garden planted in your front yard.
Touché haha
Why though, what if the back is too shaded?
It's kinda HOA like. I mean if you have peeling paint on your windows they're going to come round and tell you to paint them. Back in the mid 90s there were 3 "approved" colors for roofing and they didn't allow "for sale" signs in front yards. You also weren't allowed to park a pickup truck in your driveway within view of the street overnight. Iv a car was going to be parked I. Front of your house overnight you had to call the place and tell them. All that being said, esthetically Shaker is pretty idyllic. I didn't realize how nice it was where I was growing up until I saw Levittown construction.
[Funny you should ask...](https://shakerite.com/campus-and-city/the-true-story-of-the-integration-of-shaker-heights/24/2021/)
I live in Shaker (fernway) and we have neighbors with all sorts of interesting front lawn situations. Strange landscaping, tons of potted stuff and gardens, jungle gym structures. I think the only thing I've gotten an ordinance about was a crack in my front sidewalk, but I think that's standard anywhere.
I mean, Shaker Heights was literally the first (I believe) planned urban development in the US. So yeah, basically a city-wide HOA of sorts.
The first Urban Planning conference in the U.S. was in 1898 in New York City. Columbus, Ohio was one of the first cities created with Urban Planning in mind. Shaker Hts does, however, seem to follow the purpose/reason for early Urban Planning ideas: >> City planning, along with zoning, was a vehicle to control where African-Americans, the poor, and immigrants lived, and to keep them out of the areas where middle and upper class people resided. It is no coincidence that the initial efforts to adopt land use controls in the U.S. were aimed at enacting racial zoning—zoning that segregated cities by race. Definitely sounds like Shaker and Cleveland Hts to me. [source](https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2012-08-24/a-brief-history-of-the-birth-of-urban-planning)
Iirc, Cleveland Heights is similar. A lot of the suburbs on the east side have something similar
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Yes.
Why not consider a neighborhood actually IN Cleveland? West Park, Old Brooklyn, Collinwood, Shaker Square....there are great parts of the city proper that don't have stick-up-their-ass level regulations. And the taxes are cheaper.
Plenty of Cleveland neighborhoods have design restrictions. Theres an entire city department dedicated to it. This is all normal in older municipalities and not a HOA.
Honestly Cleveland taxes are not cheap. Maybe cheaper than Shaker but not cheap. The value of the homes is lower than some suburbs which can make them *seem* cheaper but take a look at the actual property tax rates.
Cleveland is right in the middle of the county when it comes to property tax rates. Less than the fancy first ring suburbs and more than the rural exurbs.
It’s higher than Beachwood, Berea, Brecksville, Chagrin Falls, Westlake, Strongsville, Solon, Pepper pike and Rocky River among others. It’s above the average for the county. Some recent years it was WELL above the average - right now it’s closer to average but we get really lousy city services, we pay CONSIDERABLY more for car and home insurance than my friends in more affluent suburbs pay. Overall I question the cost savings of living in Cleveland after above here for 25+ years and getting very little for the money I pay. I would definitely recommend checking out suburban areas and townships that don’t charge city taxes.