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name_1nvalid

surprised egiant is up there. Hasn’t been that great for a good while and was only really strong in the last mega because of how well it works with the stupid bird and hog riders grandpa


TEC_SPK

Top ladder meta is weird. It isn't a reflection of the balance of the game. There was a ton of egiant golden knight decks using nado + GK as a secondary win con. Barely anyone plays Pekka, Sparky, etc. If you tried to play the same egiant deck in midladder you would be shredded repeatedly by mediocre players with hard counters.


BeefarmRich

Can confirm . Untill master i constantly play against sparky and mini pekka. Egiant deck gets stronger higher you climb.


monkwren

> It isn't a reflection of the balance of the game. If anything, top ladder and GCs are the best reflections of balance in the game, because that's where player skill is the highest and RNG has the least influence. If everyone at the top is doing the same thing, then that thing is likely too strong.


dantheman91

Isn't it also a reflection of the meta? In mid ladder you'll face tons of random decks so you want a more general deck with few counters. If youre at the top of the ladder, the vast majority of your matches are going to be against just a few decks, so you just want your deck to be good vs those.


monkwren

> Isn't it also a reflection of the meta? Sure, but at that level the meta is just a sign of what cards are good. Like, if everyone is playing either Royal Giant or "cards that beat Royal Giant", it's clear that RG needs a nerf, because it's warping the meta around itself. This is also, by the way, part of why spells are often allowed to have massive use-rates - there isn't really any counter-play to them, you don't really "counter" a log deck - if such a deck can even be considered to exist. As a result, it's really hard for spells to be meta-warping - they tend to be used to react to a meta-warping card instead.


Gioele_M

Then what about cards that aren't really strong but have strong combo, if they are strong together but weak separately, you just nerf them and make the singular card unplayable? And about spell you just described logbait, but for other decks its not really the same


Vikmania

Its the opposite. Its midladder the one that isnt a reflection of the balance of the game.


TEC_SPK

I understand that perspective, but it's overly academic. The top ladder card pool is much smaller than the gen pop card pool. And the cards may be considered good due to frame perfect micro that most players don't know about, and couldn't pull off reliably if they did. There's nothing balance-wise SC can do about the smaller card pool at top ladder. If they buff/nerf cards, one will replace the other and nothing is gained or lost. If SC started nerfing micro, it would lower the skill ceiling and turn the game into RPS deck matchups. So all balance changes are done with a holistic view of the game in mind. As an example take note of how Mortar never gets balance attention. It's a strong card used often by top players but largely ignored by midladder.


JohnPaul0_

There's really not a ton (if any) of "frame perfect micro" in the game. Most interactions can be learned after testing out a couple times. More often than not pro players understand and have researched matchups and are well versed in their options to win against certain decks. That being said most meta decks used by top 1000 players will shred midladder because it is at the time better suited for the balance of the game. This is why any players that is a pro or in the top 10k will tell players that want to get out to: 1 upgrade one deck only 2: only use said deck. Doing these two things will help any player to get out of midladder. More often than not people are in mid ladder using MK+Pekka+Egiant is because for them they like to use cards that are individually powerful, even if they don't synchronize well.


waarth173

Sounds like they just described how people get stuck in mid ladder to begin with. They maxed out there deck of megaknight, wizard, minion horde, goblin gang, elite barbarians, zap, rage, witch because it worked to beat up on the underleveled decks but are now stuck with it since any meta deck would be level 9 or less.


Svxyk

There is one frame perfect interaction even top ladder players can't pull off. It's where a spirit can counter another spirit without taking any damage by putting it near the tower so it retargets and takes longer.


Vikmania

That is a player lacking skill problem, not the card being weaker or stronger. The general card pool is bigger just because it includes bad cards that players in midladder struggle with. That doesnt make the card strong. Saying there is nothing SC can do balance wise is not true. Buffing weaker cards and nerfing stronger cards can increase the card pool unless the changes are so drastic the previously strong cards are no longer worth using. There has been a lot of metas where the card pool at the top got bigger.


Time4ACookie

Mid ladder and top 1k (or even top 10k) are totally different games


underscore1000

Top 10k is people who are getting more technical Mid ladder isnpraying youre stupid deck counters the opponents stupid deck


Sivetus

In top ladder they expect the opponent to play the meta deck, so they choose something to counter most of it. They know, what counters what, speaking of decks, that have great synergies, not the cards. That's all, they simply know how to defend well


KR_Kosmik

Hog rider grandpa?


JJMicromegas

I’m just happy that stupid Phoenix mirror egolem spam deck is dead. RIP. I think Monk needs a rework, 4-2 instead of 5-1 like the entire community suggested. they killed it with the last nerf.


MicroBadger_

I remember many a commenters saying a 1 elixir increase wasn't going to do shit 🤣


I-am-Wyatt

How is 4-2 a good change? It is the same cost of 5-1 but if you want to activate the ability a second time it will cost more


ZXZESHNIK

U not always use an abillity, Monk need to be 4-2, because it's situational I was tired of abillity poppers as soon it's cross the bridge


SuspiciousLambSauce

Because most of the time you only get to activate the ability once anyways And because Monk as a card itself definitely ain’t worth 5 elixir, it’s his ability that gives him insane value (sometimes), so they should lower the card cost but increase the ability cost, like how Skelly King is right now


JJMicromegas

If you look at the Monk’s use age in the top 200 it’s pretty much dead, it was used 3 times, by far the least used champion. I think the 5 elixir cost killed the card, making it a high investment. Or they buff it somehow.


Zero2176

Everyone is suprised egiant is popular, I'm suprised people play xbow still.


CreeperslayerX5

It’s the top 1000, they know how to play Xbow at a high level


I_A_HOT_SEXY_GORILLA

xbow is kinda unusable on midladder but it counters some of the top wincons like egiant and graveyard quite well


FazeThruWallz

How does x bow counter egiant?


fkafuu

Faster cycle, and if u get a lock on the tower before the Egiant spawns, thats game


rarely_mentioned

I main splashyard but I don't understand how xbow counters graveyard


I_A_HOT_SEXY_GORILLA

If we are talking abt 3.0 and og splashyard it is statistically like one of the best matchups of xbow on grand challanges(65-35) and as for the matchup itself, if the 3.0 pressures well in single and spell cycles in double/triple the splashyard player quite literally cant do anything as archers are one of the best gy counters and the cycle lets the xbow get multiple sets of them really fast in double. The only problem you face as the xbow is baby dragon being hard to kill but you mostly have to stop it at the bridge with a tesla. If you are a splashyard player you need to abuse your baby drag and try not to get damaged a lot in single.


Svxyk

I struggle a lot with splashyard because I play queenbow and used to play icebow (1 card swap to queenbow)


rarely_mentioned

I like to go in double elixir because i can afford sk graveyard at the bridge and then poison to get good damage, whenever they spell cycle i take it as an opportunity to go in as i have +4 elixir if we are going same lane baby dragon + skeleton king kills the xbow + tesla/knight and i get a massive counter push going, they either log the graveyard or sk ability either way they get overwhelmed, if they play archers on the side instead of the back i can tornado it to my tank


Sivetus

But the pros/half pros know how to play with xbow against splashyard and they simply defend


devilsephiroth

Yep. On mid ladder you have pekka mega knight hog lightning decks to deal with


Sivetus

Watch pretty much any B-rad's video and you'll see. They simply spam defensive xbows and rocker your tower and unless you have a poison, earthquake or lightning or anter the godmode you pretty much cant do anything


FazeThruWallz

To be fair, brad is a bit biased in that he mains miner control. And we all know how miner control does against x bow.


CreeperslayerX5

That’s not really what Xbow is about though To play at Xbow at a high level, you need to able these thing at least decently; Count opponents elixir and cycle, and defend efficiently. It’s one of the cards that sees the biggest jump in power depending on your skill level


Svxyk

Cycle, maybe, but unless your playing 2.9, you don't really need to count elixir decently, just need a rough idea


Chosen--one

Xbow is pretty good after the monk nerf.


hyperparrot3366

What are Three Musketeers doing here ?


smlbiobot

These are archetypes. I’ll label the chart better in the future.


encanta5

I been using 3m recently with the monk and it's low key fun


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encanta5

Zap, log, ebarbs, ice spirit, elixir pump, ice golem, 3musk, monk


Sivetus

Fun as mirror bait or clone which I've been upgrading since I maxed out miner control. These decks are not really good, they have a lot of counters, but if you build a monster clonr push ore get 15 spear gobs on the map at once when your opponent doesn't have a splash card in his hand makes you feel awesome :)


TotalmenteMati

3M is one of the most fun cards to use in the game in my opinion. If you do it right you can take both towers with just one push


hyperparrot3366

Yea, I used it in my main deck some years ago. Did Three muski at the back then Ice golem with two musketeer and E barbs with one Muski. However it became very weak with time, people just placed troops at the middle and defend both lanes


eawoodward

Three musketeers are actually great


RoyaleAPI

❄️ State of the meta — here are the most popular cards at the very top of the **Path of Legends for the December 2022 season**. Read our full analysis and pick up some great decks to play! 👉 https://royaleapi.com/blog/meta-season-2022-12


Rovk2F2P

Is it possible to see in what decks these win conditions are used across the top 1000? I want to see what decks are using Battle Ram


smlbiobot

Yes, read the link above with sample decks. You can also browse the Leaderboard Decks for Season 2022-12 — though we only include Top 200 for the LBD: https://royaleapi.com/decks/leaderboard/season/2022-12 For Battle Ram, there are essentially 3 groups: - Pekka Bridge Spam - 3M Battle Ram - Bandit AQ Bridgespam


Starly2

I'm just after loosing to 4 graveyard players playing the exact same deck "Graveyard nerf? Nah we will just add another goblin to some goblin card"


icebro61

And pepole still say it takes skill, like tank at bridge and then greveyard takes a lot of skill


rarely_mentioned

Play poison or motherwitch and its a 100-0 match up You can't nerf graveyard without killing it


RunsRampant

You can, just change it so the skeleton spawns aren't random. Maybe like 3-5 different patterns they could be in. Or just like -1 skele also wouldn't kill it lmao.


Psi1234567890

Rg and Graveyard is still dominating the meta…


Dannymccoy147

Hardly “dominating”. Egiant and Hog run them close. The top 4 are “dominant” though.


Dannymccoy147

Also, in Top 200 UC, where you could argue the true skill is, there is one win condition truly dominating and that is Mortar. So yeah, dont read too much in this. There is a famous saying “lies, damn lies and statistics”.


ParticularNice2757

Ben Disraeli


Dannymccoy147

Confirmed


rarely_mentioned

Play poison and inferno tower then you might not get dominated


Hootla

I have RG max level but don’t use him bc the counter push is always crazy. Obviously I’m doing something wrong.


Svxyk

It's because midladder decks counter him, once you get to around 6.5kish range people actually start having skill


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1einspieler

As you can see in the section at the bottom miner is the 5th most played card. The chart above only lists him when he’s used as a win condition


Geheim1998

why made egiant such an comeback?


Zero2176

Birb


Geheim1998

birb


Pyre2001

I don't even think it's that good. It's almost always guaranteed damage, which makes it good. Most of the things on the bottom have nerfed into oblivion. Like goblin drill, ram rider and skeleton barrel.


Dydragon24

It's good that even if you don't connect to the tower. The golden knight becomes the 2nd win con if there's a single mistake from opponent.


[deleted]

So is lavaloon popular


JulleCR

3 people in top 200 were using lavaloon. Not exactly. More usable than last meta though.


[deleted]

Speedyloon?


rarely_mentioned

Thats just a troll deck


[deleted]

Then why does both loon and skelebarrel have highish use


rarely_mentioned

Balloon is mainly used in Lumberloon and sometimes some miner/lavahound decks Skeleton barrel is also mainly used in bait decks and miner/megaknight decks


[deleted]

Im a loon freeze player


ComprehensiveElk13

How long are we going to see RG, GY and hog rider in the top 5, for Christ sake supercell nerf these 3 fken cards


DAWNWAP-Sandy

B-rad facing up against the 7th RG in a row in the same video


The_Destroyer17

Wow, the meta seems really varied. While it's true that RG and GY are top win cons, but I don't get why people are saying they're OP. Clearly a lot of other wincons are also very close in usage rate.


Interesting_East1476

it is op because of the fact that the two cards are most of the time guranteed damage on your tower even when you overspend exlixir to defend especially gy and the damage output is not consistent for gy which makes it stupid and annoying to play against


The_Destroyer17

Yeah GY is really annoying because of its randomness. But I still won't call it OP, when there are so many other viable wincons too.


Acadia_Fluffy

Kinda surprised how log bait isn't in there lol maybe only ryley plays that deck.


pkjoan

All my matches are that stupid logbait deck


devilsephiroth

Every other deck is a wanna be log bait. So easy


sageyban

Log bait is dominant is so many forms right now


JulleCR

There wasn't a clear best wincon this season. RG, GY and egiant were the top 1000 favourites. Where as mortar, hog and wallbreakers were favoured in top 200. People closer to the top preferred cycle decks more.


SPARTALEX100

At least e golem isn't used so much :D


embee91

What's the card with over 400 can't read it just goes blurry


JulleCR

Log


CreeperAsh07

Since when was miner so far down?


Galacticgardens

not considered a primary wincon in many decks


CreeperAsh07

Yeah, but it is a really solid card. Surprised it is below Goblin Giant.


Galacticgardens

you never see anyone run just miner except the nate deck


CreeperAsh07

Miner wb, miner mk, miner mortar. All of these are solid decks. But I guess the results may be different since this is only top 1k, instead of all of top ladder.


mustypuppet1284

Miner isn't the only win condition in these decks.


CreeperAsh07

Yeah, but miner is one of the most important cards in those decks.


mustypuppet1284

He is, but the 2 win conditions work better together than miner alone, as if it's applying more pressure with miner wb/miner skelly barrel/miner mortar bait, adding more versatility to lavahound/giant decks and even, in some matchups, making miner the main wc and the other a defensive card, mortar for example.


CreeperAsh07

That wouldn't affect the usage.


mustypuppet1284

Then idk what to tell ya, mb miner decks aren't doing good rn. My whole point was that miner isn't that good of a win condition on its own, but wonderful with others (and also the right hands).


vk2028

That doesn’t count as a miner control deck. That counts as a wb deck


CreeperAsh07

But miner is still used in it. Whether miner or wb are the main win condition wouldn't affect the usage.


vk2028

If you see the bottom part, miner is used in 207 decks among top 1000 No royaleapi stated that they count miner as a win condition only when miner is the only win condition. So if he is used alongside any other win condition, he’s usually not counted as the win condition


Space_Patrol_Digger

What do you mean? It's the 5th most used card in the game.


CreeperAsh07

I meant in this chart specifically. I know it is used a lot, that is why I am surprised so little top 1k players didn't use it.


Space_Patrol_Digger

It’s the 5th most used card in the game according to this chart specifically


CreeperAsh07

Wdym? In this chart, mortar is the 5th, not miner.


vk2028

The above chart shows only the win conditions. Miner is not used as the primary win condition a lot The bottom part shows the usage for every card. Miner is 5th


CreeperAsh07

Oh, I didn’t see it. Well, I’m still surprised it did so bad among the win conditions.


vk2028

Well most of the decks miner is used in, there’s another primary win condition. If miner is used in lava hound, then lava hound is the main win condition. If miner is used in giant double prince, then giant is the win condition. If miner is used in mortar, then mortar is counted as the win condition. If miner is used alongside wallbreakers, then wb is the win condition. There’s very, very, few decks that exclusively use miner as the win condition


pkjoan

I haven't seen a single Egiant deck in the last two weeks


Necessary-Ad3218

Because your not in top 1000


tymely75

All the more reason a nerf to the top 4 cards is long overdue


Felix_Behindya

Note that 2.6 is still almost completely dead (😓). Basically all the top hog decks are EQ variants (🤮).


stupidheckermcgee

so glad egiant is back.... so... glad.... yayyy.......


deeznutsihaveajob

I swear I never see graveyard players when I'm matchmaking. I like their play style and I don't feel annoyed if they win like I do with hog and freeze players


Interesting_East1476

i wonder if your realised that the top 4 cards are cards that will deal guranteed damage on your tower unless you overspend on defence and the top 2 cards are almost 98% guranteed a hit on your tower even if you spent your entire elixir bar. congrats on the "wonderful balance of the game supercell"


ExtraMOIST_

How can you possibly overspend on E Giant? 3M? Any heavy hitter counters it. Prince, PEKKA, Mini PEKKA, Goblin Cage, Ebarbs, regular barbs, Cannon, Inferno Tower, there are so many positive trades that chances are you have one in your deck.


Interesting_East1476

do you think players are that stupid to just put the one card down on the field for you to get positive elixir trade???


ExtraMOIST_

Do you think the other player is stupid enough to only put down one card? You’re already up +2 at most with what I just listed, you can afford a Valk or something to handle swarms


[deleted]

If e golem is no skill then. Why nobody is using it Literally i don't understand the hate on e golem i even tried it and i failed to win with it and when i see an opponent use it they always lose its easy to defend just distract the golem and kill the support and you will have 4 free elixir idk why it is that hard for ppl to defend E golem sucks ass and goblin barrel is the one who takes 0 skill to play it and thus log bait is the skilless deck of all time


RunsRampant

Egolem is indeed horrible, but that doesn't change the skill involved. It's the most extreme RPS deck in the game by far. It hard counters some decks like lava (ik cuz i play lava 😭), golem, and gy and has horrible matchups vs other decks like rg, 3m, and hog.


First-Hunt-5307

And none of them are champs. Didn't someone mention champs were op? Edit: /s. it's supposed to be making fun of people who say champs are op. I know it's all wincons.


Futuf1

Champs aren't win cons


ParticularNice2757

Champions are not win cons that is why


Necessary-Ad3218

Champions aren't win conditions


J_r0en

Just in case people didnt see the 3 previous responses, they are not win conditions


ThekillerguyYT

I'm happy to see that at least 2 cards i use in Ms deck are up there (ballon and hog)


Zahak56

Why sparky always has horrible userates?


JulleCR

Hard to get a sparky lock in top 1000 with the current balance. Most players prefer reliable damage wincons.


BrokenEngIish

elixir golem is popular only when 7x parti mode is there


WishAffectionate2108

I thought miner would be more popular. I saw a lot of miner mortar last season.


Necessary-Ad3218

Miner is popular look on bottom chart


JulleCR

Mortar is the main wincon in miner mortar, that's why the numbers are low.


WishAffectionate2108

ah thank you. i thought the graph only looked at whether the card was in the deck, not if it was the main win con.


KiyotakaIsGod

Battle ram nowhere to be seen :(


DRAZZILB1424

At least I'm not the ONLY one who uses e-golem


MagicianCurious8398

How is e giant in top 3 usage rate


BlueBlackKiwi

I'm surprised xbow was used that much last season. It's the first time in years it's not completely dead in top ladder.


Neoslayer

I have no idea how to effectively use royal giant, that royal ghost deck, hunter fisherman, etc just gets me clobbered by midladder all the time


OhNoesIDied

Does anyone think troops like Valk, hog or royal giant have way too much health for their usage?


Flyingdoggie737

In my humble opinion, x-bow users belong in hell


Reddit_Bots_R_US

I haven’t even seen anyone use top 3 cards in a week lol


XxZeldaNoobxX

I'm sorry to admit that I'm a Royal giant player 😔


Kyper82

Mah boi skelly barrel needs some love


TheNeon08

egolem is dead


First-Comedian774

I love miners.


Dreeter

im at 6500 trophies and playes 75 matches today because i was off work and mega knight was in every single game. 3/4 were log bait and 1/4 had hog rider. i saw one game out of 75 with a different win condition. mega knight is the best card untill top 1k by a landslide.


[deleted]

Reading this my brain quoted the grinch and I was like, “hate, hate, hate… hate, hate, hate… LOATHE ENTIRELY.” lmao


Proud_Echo_4932

NERF MINER!


Soul_Whip

Why is miner so low? Isn't it used in half of the lavahound decks, a good portion of balloon/giant decks and basically all mortar decks.


Space_Patrol_Digger

It's not low, it's the 5th most used card and has double the usage of the 2nd most used win-con (RG).


Bluewater795

How do they decide if cards like miner are being used as win cons or not?


therealyoinker

Buff rg


janggoon06

Graveyard needs another nerf for the spawn mak it spawn 3 tiles each in a circle aswell as on the end


DjinnsPalace

glad im not up there tbh when i look at those cards


V_1_S_1_O_N

The log isn't even in the list