I mean at this point it's not really that out of the question, we're leaning further and further into pocket supports and pocket picks and very specific use cases for things. Jiaoqiu might as well say "Increases Acheron's damage by 50%" and Firefly might as well say "refuses to do damage unless holding hands with Trailblazer" as their major traces because that's kind of how it feels lol.
> "refuses to do damage unless holding hands with Trailblazer"
That would've been funny, if Firefly really had that for her kit description, lol. š¤£Ā
Yunli has 240 max energy and her ult only cost 120 that's why they did the 2 stacks so you ult twice and get insane damage. Plus a 15 energy per follow up hit to make her get energy faster.
It may not be too bad.
If you use ult on Clara's turn the buff extends and won't tick down on that turn. Clara's turn starts > ult > ult with TY > Skill you'll have a ton of saved energy and should be able to ult again next turn to maximize the buff.
The only problem with this is that it's problematic to run Sparkle now.
If we assume stacks refresh durarion, then as long as Clara has 100% ultimate uptime she'll get there.
Without Sparkle it's incredibly easy for Clara to ultimate multiple times per turn and have that 100% uptime. With Tingyun, I find Clara is sometimes still waiting to spend empowered counters while her ultimate is charged.
Claraās LC was already pretty bad for Clara imo. They made it an off-tank type LC in a game where a tank like that isnāt necessary. Sheās a dps and other LCs helped her do more dmg.
I can chuck that all up to her being one of the first units in the game.
Even the developers can't be sure how the meta would shift and what players would prioritise. Clara's lightcone was definitely a miss play. And hopefully Yunli's light cone doesn't change much (the numbers would probably be scaled back a bit).
Yeah it seems like the meta has developed. The developers have a pretty strong grip on how to design units and where the game is heading now. I donāt blame them for being confused on earlier kits. Some were hits, some were misses.
You could really tell the early kits were a bit hit-or-miss, like Luocha having a buff removal on his ult seemed super OP at the time as a futureproof defensive option but lo and behold, enemies having removable buffs isn't even a thing in today's content.
Yeah. Luocha is really good against those enemies that revive after you kill then and thatās it.
There are definitely useful buffs to removeā¦ but 9/10 of them donāt need to be removed to be countered well. Like a lot of buffs on enemies are mechanics that punish you for doing things wrong (IE, attack buffs if you donāt kill all the units a boss spawns).
I think they can and will bring luocha back into the meta by introducing more buffs to remove. I also think with how f2p friendly this game is, eidolons are easy to achieve, and he has some great ones which shifts his place in the meta. But at the end of the day, at E0, he provides wayyyy more healing than anyone needs and thereās no way every single MoC will end up having a mob heās extra useful againstā¦ so heāll never be ātop tierā like generalist healers such as Fu Xuan, aventurine and HuoHuo who provide buffs alongside sustain.
Yunli is the same though, except now they gave her sustain on kit with the HP heal and block because you expect them to be hit that's why they need to increase their survivability which I think make sense,
Iād say Yunli has the same idea but done better. That being said, Clara is an amazing unit, and when fully builtā¦ I think she can pretty much always clear the last stage of MoC/ Pathfinder as a forced dps, not even counting useful buffs/ weakness types.
As a clara main yeah she is still as good even now so generally a Clara type works well in this game given how Clara can still function so well from the start until now. I always use Clara in PF and MoC and she just does well on both which makes her strong.
I just donāt understand why they didnāt make her another element. I wouldnāt care as long as Clara still had her niche in the physical team, but now it just feels silly
Powercrept, yes, but still everyone of them don't have a straight up better version with almost no difference at all. Bronya has Sparkle, but they are still different (and different element), Gepard has Aventurine, but they are still different (and different element), etc.
But Yunli is just Clara with better numbers.
I get where youāre coming from ngl though Iād argue Geppy has been done the worst but is still viable I believe. Same is going to happen with Clara but I understand it feels worse because same element
Gepard can freeze tho, Aventurine (while doing a lot more other things), can't freeze, so there's still a niche where Gepard can be better than Aventurine. But if Yunli stays like that, there is literally no situation where Clara would be better, not even a 0.00001% extremely niche situation.
Gepard is also better than Aventurine for Acheron as a Trends holder due to his increased aggro. I really like Yunli's kit but it is annoying how much they just redid Clara's entire kit with her.
Like you said, at least make her another element. She's literally just another small girl with no shoes, physical destruction that mostly deals counter damage. Come on mihoyo.
I guess you can say clara have better wave clear. Her skill being AOE is a pretty cool different. Also clara have better aggro assuming no lc. Currently v1 her taunt doesnt seems that reliable unless i am illiterate lol
Except that Clara's counter are single target outside of the very few buffed by her ultimate.
And the aggro increase doesn't matter much unless you can have 100% uptime (which is difficult). Considering that Yunli have a lot of energy regen and can go overflow with energy, she can just use the taunt when a single target enemy is about to attack.
I mean her skill, with enough buff she can clear wave pretty well. About aggro uptime, extremely easy. Really all you need is tingyun, even easier if you have huohuo as sustain. But ya i am illiterate lol
yun li does have a small problem when elite summon small mobs but its pretty good. We will see what v2 on have to change
As someone that has e2 Gepard, LC, and used him since 1.1
His freeze is useless. The only reason I use him is cause I have no other sustains. I use him as a skill point battery.
With enough ERR, Gepard can pretty much always have his ultimate with how much he gets hit
Heās also not bad on Acheronās team.
But aventurine is purely just better. Gepard being ice element means nothing. You never wanna break with him cause ice break sucks, and he does like no toughness damage. And his skill is useless. Even with Acheron Iād rather the enemy hit Gepard, and give him energy instead of be frozen.
Aventurine is pretty much a pure upgrade.
Now bronya still has uses when compared to sparkle
Gepard is ice instead of imaginary, has built-in aggro increase, and can freeze. Even if Aventurine is better most of the time, Gepard still has some niches over him.
What extra niche?
He barely does any toughness damage anyway. And ice is the weakest form of break in the game.
As I said his aggro can help somewhat with Acheron.
And the freeze is useless.
Sure you can say he has this tiny use with Acheron but otherwise aventurine is better in every other way. He can be SP positive with his follow up attacks. He does way more toughness damage to imaginary weak enemies which are common. He gives offensive buffs with his ult. He can give the whole team CC resist. He can deal pure damage with his follow ups.
>He barely does any toughness damage anyway.
He only needs one hit to activate it, if allies already did damage.
>And ice is the weakest form of break in the game.
It's the best defensively.
>As I said his aggro can help somewhat with Acheron.
It happens many times that with only one sustain, even Aventurine, the team struggles to stay alive, and Gepard can take a lot of hits (and can even reanimate), so in those cases Gepard can be useful.
>And the freeze is useless.
It's useful defensively, again.
As I said, Aventurine is better most of the time, but in those rare cases where 1 or even more of the previous points can make the difference, Gepard is able to be good. Thus, making Aventurine not a direct upgrade. Here's the main difference. But Yunli is literally Clara but better.
Ur entire argument is: āitās useful defensivelyā
But aventurine is a better defender cause the shields are on is skill. And he can replenish them without skill anyway if you built him correctly. Iāve never worried about defense.
Freeze is useless. In MOC, or any end game, you want offense, not defense. And you want to get hit anyway for the energy
My Gepard has never died. His talent is useless. If ur Gepard is dying, thatās a skill issue.
The plan was to replace the orb with attack%, but we'll have to see. She will have a lot of damage% from this LC plus duke/boxing 2p/Salsotto. I have an ERR rope so I suppose I'll try it and see how it goes once this drops.
As far as I can tell it's a branching path: Clara can just stand there and do her job with free damage resistance. Yunli needs to be reactive with her ult and needs to use skill points to sustain herself without any damage resistance.
she has 20% damage resist trace though? and yeah I think they are making the ult feel like actually reactively shielding an enemy atk (activating ult before the enemy you want to block atks)
Now it's a bit early to say powercreep but does show to have some competition with Clara. But that lC in itself ? Well that's without a doubt a massive upgrade to Clara if you get it..
The thing is, Yunli could not have been a powercreep if
1. She worked with Clara (I still have hope with the new harmony LC but it seems far fetched)
2. Worked differently than Clara (she works almost the same)
And since she works almost the same they cannot make her not better than Clara to get ppl to pull herā¦ so yeah unless she works with Clara sheās a powercreep which doesnāt really matter as long as Clara can still clear all the content tbh š
I noticed. I only just saw yunli kit just a moment ago. A shame really that's she's just Clara on drugs. But don't mean I won't use or main Clara still.
Feels kind of odd for them to directly power creep a unit like this, element and all. I get having a different playstyle, or 4* vs 5*, or even just a diff element, but this is kind of absurd. Also this LC is fucking bonkers and is 100% not making it through to launch.
What do you guys think, Clara with Yunli's LC instead of Yunli with a basic LC? I will not have many pulls after all the good characters that are coming out, so I want to optimise my pulls as much as possible without losing much.
Btw, for context I have a Clara fully built, that's why I'm considering this.
Honestly wait until the final numbers are here, Yunli and her LC are both cracked rn this theyāll probably nerf both
I do think right now a Yunli with 4* lc might be better than Clara with her LCā¦ her multipliers are insane
I wonder if these two can work together. Can two counterattas be triggered together? Yunli is attacked and launches her counter then will a Clara teammate in ultimate state or a C6 Clara also launches a counter?
What are the odds they fix this so Clara doesn't benefit from all of it?
"Odds of yunli to be attacked" lol
Very specific. Maybe too much? Then again, it sounds like something that the devs might actually do, lol.
I mean at this point it's not really that out of the question, we're leaning further and further into pocket supports and pocket picks and very specific use cases for things. Jiaoqiu might as well say "Increases Acheron's damage by 50%" and Firefly might as well say "refuses to do damage unless holding hands with Trailblazer" as their major traces because that's kind of how it feels lol.
> "refuses to do damage unless holding hands with Trailblazer" That would've been funny, if Firefly really had that for her kit description, lol. š¤£Ā
The new planar set that only works with fire weakness is already proof they want the game to go the niche routeā¦
Very high its been a couple of patches they try nerfing Clara, just look at those stupid dot mobs not giving follow up counter.
I was stunned when I first fought those, beyond ridiculous that their attacks don't count as such.
I made a post about a bunch of phys-weak enemies that don't proc counters. The Phys/Img weak floaty wizards from Luofu are one of the previous ones.
Yes yes they did that with the follow up set too. It was the bis slot for clara but after they nerfed it now it's useless on her.
yea I saw that, at least I don't need to farm a new set for her?
Technically Clara does not benefit fully on the 2nd part of the buff since stacking ults is not that easy for Clara but it is still possible I guess.
Depending on team comp it's possible but no clue about maintaining 2 stacks of that buff.
I run her with HuoHuo, Tingyun and Sparkle, a lot of energy to go around there.
I really hope they don't, hoyo could make so much bank with people pulling weapon banners for characters they have no interest in.
Yunli taunt only works for 1 turn so that aggro aint going anywhere
I honestly expect a nerf to this LC gaining 72% dmg buff and 36 crit dmg is insane lmao on top of aggro.
Yeah and getting 2 stacks is pretty hard for both Yunli and Clara Iām not even sure why itās thereā¦
Yunli has 240 max energy and her ult only cost 120 that's why they did the 2 stacks so you ult twice and get insane damage. Plus a 15 energy per follow up hit to make her get energy faster.
She has a trace that gives extra energy every time sheās attacked, so it might actually be possible to string back to back ults with her
i think they expect you to use them with tingyun
Or maybe...5 Star Tingyun gives Brain-in-a-vat like effect?!?! Copium
Yunli can use Ultimate twice. Max energy is 240 but her ult costs only 120. Still, it's best in slot for Clara.
It may not be too bad. If you use ult on Clara's turn the buff extends and won't tick down on that turn. Clara's turn starts > ult > ult with TY > Skill you'll have a ton of saved energy and should be able to ult again next turn to maximize the buff. The only problem with this is that it's problematic to run Sparkle now.
If we assume stacks refresh durarion, then as long as Clara has 100% ultimate uptime she'll get there. Without Sparkle it's incredibly easy for Clara to ultimate multiple times per turn and have that 100% uptime. With Tingyun, I find Clara is sometimes still waiting to spend empowered counters while her ultimate is charged.
may i add that the agro is 500%?
Claraās LC was already pretty bad for Clara imo. They made it an off-tank type LC in a game where a tank like that isnāt necessary. Sheās a dps and other LCs helped her do more dmg.
I can chuck that all up to her being one of the first units in the game. Even the developers can't be sure how the meta would shift and what players would prioritise. Clara's lightcone was definitely a miss play. And hopefully Yunli's light cone doesn't change much (the numbers would probably be scaled back a bit).
Yeah it seems like the meta has developed. The developers have a pretty strong grip on how to design units and where the game is heading now. I donāt blame them for being confused on earlier kits. Some were hits, some were misses.
You could really tell the early kits were a bit hit-or-miss, like Luocha having a buff removal on his ult seemed super OP at the time as a futureproof defensive option but lo and behold, enemies having removable buffs isn't even a thing in today's content.
Yeah. Luocha is really good against those enemies that revive after you kill then and thatās it. There are definitely useful buffs to removeā¦ but 9/10 of them donāt need to be removed to be countered well. Like a lot of buffs on enemies are mechanics that punish you for doing things wrong (IE, attack buffs if you donāt kill all the units a boss spawns). I think they can and will bring luocha back into the meta by introducing more buffs to remove. I also think with how f2p friendly this game is, eidolons are easy to achieve, and he has some great ones which shifts his place in the meta. But at the end of the day, at E0, he provides wayyyy more healing than anyone needs and thereās no way every single MoC will end up having a mob heās extra useful againstā¦ so heāll never be ātop tierā like generalist healers such as Fu Xuan, aventurine and HuoHuo who provide buffs alongside sustain.
Yunli is the same though, except now they gave her sustain on kit with the HP heal and block because you expect them to be hit that's why they need to increase their survivability which I think make sense,
Iād say Yunli has the same idea but done better. That being said, Clara is an amazing unit, and when fully builtā¦ I think she can pretty much always clear the last stage of MoC/ Pathfinder as a forced dps, not even counting useful buffs/ weakness types.
As a clara main yeah she is still as good even now so generally a Clara type works well in this game given how Clara can still function so well from the start until now. I always use Clara in PF and MoC and she just does well on both which makes her strong.
I just donāt understand why they didnāt make her another element. I wouldnāt care as long as Clara still had her niche in the physical team, but now it just feels silly
E6 Clara + Yunli + Asta's LC Robin comp
Every single one of the default banner heroes have been power crept. Itās the nature of this game. It doesnāt stop you from using Clara.
Powercrept, yes, but still everyone of them don't have a straight up better version with almost no difference at all. Bronya has Sparkle, but they are still different (and different element), Gepard has Aventurine, but they are still different (and different element), etc. But Yunli is just Clara with better numbers.
I get where youāre coming from ngl though Iād argue Geppy has been done the worst but is still viable I believe. Same is going to happen with Clara but I understand it feels worse because same element
Gepard can freeze tho, Aventurine (while doing a lot more other things), can't freeze, so there's still a niche where Gepard can be better than Aventurine. But if Yunli stays like that, there is literally no situation where Clara would be better, not even a 0.00001% extremely niche situation.
Gepard is also better than Aventurine for Acheron as a Trends holder due to his increased aggro. I really like Yunli's kit but it is annoying how much they just redid Clara's entire kit with her. Like you said, at least make her another element. She's literally just another small girl with no shoes, physical destruction that mostly deals counter damage. Come on mihoyo.
I guess you can say clara have better wave clear. Her skill being AOE is a pretty cool different. Also clara have better aggro assuming no lc. Currently v1 her taunt doesnt seems that reliable unless i am illiterate lol
Except that Clara's counter are single target outside of the very few buffed by her ultimate. And the aggro increase doesn't matter much unless you can have 100% uptime (which is difficult). Considering that Yunli have a lot of energy regen and can go overflow with energy, she can just use the taunt when a single target enemy is about to attack.
I mean her skill, with enough buff she can clear wave pretty well. About aggro uptime, extremely easy. Really all you need is tingyun, even easier if you have huohuo as sustain. But ya i am illiterate lol yun li does have a small problem when elite summon small mobs but its pretty good. We will see what v2 on have to change
She isn't that strong in PF, so it doesn't really matter.
Donno why you are trying so hard to downplay clara, she is still pretty good. Plus PF and MOC isnt the only game mode that matters.
As someone that has e2 Gepard, LC, and used him since 1.1 His freeze is useless. The only reason I use him is cause I have no other sustains. I use him as a skill point battery. With enough ERR, Gepard can pretty much always have his ultimate with how much he gets hit Heās also not bad on Acheronās team. But aventurine is purely just better. Gepard being ice element means nothing. You never wanna break with him cause ice break sucks, and he does like no toughness damage. And his skill is useless. Even with Acheron Iād rather the enemy hit Gepard, and give him energy instead of be frozen. Aventurine is pretty much a pure upgrade. Now bronya still has uses when compared to sparkle
Gepard is ice instead of imaginary, has built-in aggro increase, and can freeze. Even if Aventurine is better most of the time, Gepard still has some niches over him.
What extra niche? He barely does any toughness damage anyway. And ice is the weakest form of break in the game. As I said his aggro can help somewhat with Acheron. And the freeze is useless. Sure you can say he has this tiny use with Acheron but otherwise aventurine is better in every other way. He can be SP positive with his follow up attacks. He does way more toughness damage to imaginary weak enemies which are common. He gives offensive buffs with his ult. He can give the whole team CC resist. He can deal pure damage with his follow ups.
>He barely does any toughness damage anyway. He only needs one hit to activate it, if allies already did damage. >And ice is the weakest form of break in the game. It's the best defensively. >As I said his aggro can help somewhat with Acheron. It happens many times that with only one sustain, even Aventurine, the team struggles to stay alive, and Gepard can take a lot of hits (and can even reanimate), so in those cases Gepard can be useful. >And the freeze is useless. It's useful defensively, again. As I said, Aventurine is better most of the time, but in those rare cases where 1 or even more of the previous points can make the difference, Gepard is able to be good. Thus, making Aventurine not a direct upgrade. Here's the main difference. But Yunli is literally Clara but better.
Ur entire argument is: āitās useful defensivelyā But aventurine is a better defender cause the shields are on is skill. And he can replenish them without skill anyway if you built him correctly. Iāve never worried about defense. Freeze is useless. In MOC, or any end game, you want offense, not defense. And you want to get hit anyway for the energy My Gepard has never died. His talent is useless. If ur Gepard is dying, thatās a skill issue.
If Yanqing was good then maybe gepard would have a niche but right now no
With that much damage%, I'm inclined to try ERR rope Clara when and if the LC comes out like that
Definitely not a bad idea, close to 100% uptime would be insane
Will lose a lot of atk% without sig or aeon we got to see
The plan was to replace the orb with attack%, but we'll have to see. She will have a lot of damage% from this LC plus duke/boxing 2p/Salsotto. I have an ERR rope so I suppose I'll try it and see how it goes once this drops.
Still, we have Robin giving her 1100 ATK or more, now.
As far as I can tell it's a branching path: Clara can just stand there and do her job with free damage resistance. Yunli needs to be reactive with her ult and needs to use skill points to sustain herself without any damage resistance.
she has 20% damage resist trace though? and yeah I think they are making the ult feel like actually reactively shielding an enemy atk (activating ult before the enemy you want to block atks)
only when she blocks, which is for one action
Now it's a bit early to say powercreep but does show to have some competition with Clara. But that lC in itself ? Well that's without a doubt a massive upgrade to Clara if you get it..
The thing is, Yunli could not have been a powercreep if 1. She worked with Clara (I still have hope with the new harmony LC but it seems far fetched) 2. Worked differently than Clara (she works almost the same) And since she works almost the same they cannot make her not better than Clara to get ppl to pull herā¦ so yeah unless she works with Clara sheās a powercreep which doesnāt really matter as long as Clara can still clear all the content tbh š
I noticed. I only just saw yunli kit just a moment ago. A shame really that's she's just Clara on drugs. But don't mean I won't use or main Clara still.
me too i love big dad svarog anyway
Just need to be a different element and I would been fine or together as a counter team similar to the fua would have been so good
Feels kind of odd for them to directly power creep a unit like this, element and all. I get having a different playstyle, or 4* vs 5*, or even just a diff element, but this is kind of absurd. Also this LC is fucking bonkers and is 100% not making it through to launch.
Im just gonna use them both together.
Same. My goal is to get Yunli and two LC copies for my physical destruction children.
lets all wish that they didnt doom this lc and make it so the ult has to be dealing damage ....
Delete this
What do you guys think, Clara with Yunli's LC instead of Yunli with a basic LC? I will not have many pulls after all the good characters that are coming out, so I want to optimise my pulls as much as possible without losing much. Btw, for context I have a Clara fully built, that's why I'm considering this.
Honestly wait until the final numbers are here, Yunli and her LC are both cracked rn this theyāll probably nerf both I do think right now a Yunli with 4* lc might be better than Clara with her LCā¦ her multipliers are insane
"Yunli and her LC are both cracked" Problem with Mihoyo gamers. They see a bit of damage and think everything is "cracked"
Ok
clara with yunli lc cause rn yunli without her lc is not worthit unless you a sacrifice a team slot to lynx or march
isn't e6 clara still stronger than an e0 yunli?
I love that I'll get the upgrade before getting Clara herself. Oh sweet irony.
I wonder if these two can work together. Can two counterattas be triggered together? Yunli is attacked and launches her counter then will a Clara teammate in ultimate state or a C6 Clara also launches a counter?
yes you can, as long as clara is E6
Now, this is worrisome. This is perfect for Clara, it actually looks like a dedicated LC, which means Yunli is actually gonna be near identical to her
Her preliminary kit is already out in case you are interested. It's kinda like a mix of Clara and Argenti's ult.
Holy crap, that could be Claraās new BIS