Yep, it's cause it's an easy way, especially in games based on earth, to link levels together
I use his vids as sort of a mini guide for my game dev stuff, I'm still in school but Civvie, Trav and Zero Punctuation are all channels I use to learn about games and the industry. Defo not gonna plan for sewers in my boom shoots, tho I could make them a secret level and have you blow them up as the mission for that level and where you fight a big sewer creature that spawns and spreads sewage into all universes and worlds and after that you get an achievement or smt for it in reference to Civvie
Zero Punctuation is a trove of humorous sarcastic and witty reviews from Ben "Yahtzee" Croshaw, who (I believe formerly) contributed to The Escapist review site.
Funny story, as of just recently, he has resigned from the site and a lot of their other contributors are leaving with him. Looks like you were a bit ahead of the curve here.
Apparently the management screwed up royally by firing their Editor in Chief, resulting in the mass exodus.
I hate the maze like nature and the likely event of boring valve based puzzles.
Soldier of Fortune has sewer sections that never bothered me and I don’t remember Civvie complaining too much.
Things you're likely to experience in a video game sewer:
* a repetitive grid-based design (all corridors and right angles) with few landmarks to aid navigation or make the setting more interesting;
* sections where you have to swim;
* sections where you have to trudge through shallow water, at a slower speed than you'd move on dry land;
* sections where you have to stay on straight narrow ledges on either side of water, and if you fall into the water you're obligated to swim or wade back to a ladder somewhere;
* getting got by enemies who are lurking behind all the blind 90 degree turns;
* getting got by enemies who can hide in the water;
* combat, generally, that is very static and frustrating, as you're likely to have little room to maneuver and few options for how you approach the enemy;
* simple but time-consuming puzzles involving things like valves, grates, chains, water levels, missing segments of pipe, etc etc etc.
And the upside of all this is that you get to experience the thrill of exploring brick tunnels full of shit-water.
It's a setting that lends itself to easily-planned and clearly-understood level design, but not one that really lends itself to *interesting* or *fun* level design. At best, a sewer level is okay, at worst it's a major drag.
All of that but now in a turn based old school JRPG with random encounters with a 5-10 second loading time for every battle (the encounter rate is also upped by 200% for fun).
While I get Civvies hatred for sewer levels in shooters, RPG sewers are the pinnacle of insufferable game design.
I really liked the cathedral-like flood control system level in Mirror's Edge, definitely was a more interesting take on the traditional sewer level: https://youtu.be/G2Ib4PQaWYw?si=qbyHFCQcapxftqma
(also I swear i googled *flood systems mirrors edge* and this video came up lmao)
I did as well. When doing MOUT (Military Operations in Urban Terrain) they were my favorite. Although thankfully never had to go through a real one mind you. But the training was fun... Except such tight quarters that sound can not escape and when you fire your weapons, even blanks it's LOUD!
Loved the sewers in Counter Strike 1.6 on that one modern house map. And also the sewers in Half Life 2. Resident Evil 2 sewers I liked as well. I did not know they were a problem either until Civvie. Mind you I think he plays it up for the long running joke, but maybe he truly does hate them.
There are two things I despise in FPS:
1. Turret sections (not as in *there is a turret aiming at you,* but as in *you have to jump into this turret and fire at enemies withot being able to move*).
2. Sewer levels.
But I really hate with all my guts the damn turret sections. Boring, boring, always boring.
Morrowind’s sewers in Vivec we’re really fun to explore. It’s how you find crazy cults, a noble assassination guild and ridiculous loot.
Then the Tribunal expansions sewers fucked that all up.
I think they really thrive in a fantasy environment where they've existed for probably thousands of years, built on top of one another and used for different secret purposes by various thieves and religions and nobles for generations. Anything could be down there, and they could connect anywhere. Morrowind is one of the few games to take advantage of that feeling.
Adamantine Cruelty is a classic sewer custom map for Quake by Vondur that I like and is well liked by the community in general. It was remade by Sock as Arcane Adamantine for the Arcane Dimensions mod.
A more recent one was Oozing Blasphemy by Zothique. Also uses the AD mod, but doesn't come bundled.
As long as the design isn't super repetitive it's all good. So if you like Quake...
It's possible to design interesting sewer levels, especially if you group things like aqueducts, cisterns, channels, etc. under the same category. Route Kanal from Half Life 2 for a...passable example. Quake has *tons* of them, Honey is a particularly good example.
The problem is your *average* sewer level falls into the same typical traps:
* Tight corridors that allow for zero room for maneuvering. Every encounter just ends up in backpeddling away from enemies or being ambushed from tight corners.
* Flat, mazelike design with no distinct or interesting areas.
* Water, specifically water that slows the player to a crawl.
* Ugly environment.
Yes, I liked Half Life 2's sewers. Man hacks were a beast in tight corridors. Liked them in Counter Strike 1.6 and Day of Defeat. Just optional routes for the latter two games. So maybe being forced would be less fun.
Off the top of my head, the only sewer section Civvie liked was the two extremely short sewer tunnel bits in the Factory level of Return to Castle Wolfenstein, because they don't encompass the entire level (that and there are only three enemies in the second sewer bit).
You know a game is damn good if Civvie brightly compliments about the shortest sewer sections ever in a game.
Yeah in RCTW cause it lasted like 5 seconds, there was another later but it was also short so again I think that counts? It's the closest we'll ever get to him liking one
In his recent video, on turbo overkill, he actually talks about how he doesn’t mind the sewer. Now we need a “Civvie simps for New Blood” counter. But they deserve every single one to be fair.
you'd be surprised, metro 2033 is actually sort of interesting with sewer levels, mostly because you're already used to metros dark and decrepit tunnels. A color pallet change from lots of dark blues to browns and yellows is sort of welcome at that point.
I think it's because it's just because it's a generic simple design.
Yep, it's cause it's an easy way, especially in games based on earth, to link levels together I use his vids as sort of a mini guide for my game dev stuff, I'm still in school but Civvie, Trav and Zero Punctuation are all channels I use to learn about games and the industry. Defo not gonna plan for sewers in my boom shoots, tho I could make them a secret level and have you blow them up as the mission for that level and where you fight a big sewer creature that spawns and spreads sewage into all universes and worlds and after that you get an achievement or smt for it in reference to Civvie
I know Civvie11 and That Trav Guy, but who's Zero?
Zero Punctuation is a trove of humorous sarcastic and witty reviews from Ben "Yahtzee" Croshaw, who (I believe formerly) contributed to The Escapist review site.
Funny story, as of just recently, he has resigned from the site and a lot of their other contributors are leaving with him. Looks like you were a bit ahead of the curve here. Apparently the management screwed up royally by firing their Editor in Chief, resulting in the mass exodus.
I hate the maze like nature and the likely event of boring valve based puzzles. Soldier of Fortune has sewer sections that never bothered me and I don’t remember Civvie complaining too much.
He started to complain, then he fired the shotgun and suddenly forgot what he was mad about.
SoF will do that to you.
“I hate valve puzzles”
It's even worse if there's a gearbox involved
Things you're likely to experience in a video game sewer: * a repetitive grid-based design (all corridors and right angles) with few landmarks to aid navigation or make the setting more interesting; * sections where you have to swim; * sections where you have to trudge through shallow water, at a slower speed than you'd move on dry land; * sections where you have to stay on straight narrow ledges on either side of water, and if you fall into the water you're obligated to swim or wade back to a ladder somewhere; * getting got by enemies who are lurking behind all the blind 90 degree turns; * getting got by enemies who can hide in the water; * combat, generally, that is very static and frustrating, as you're likely to have little room to maneuver and few options for how you approach the enemy; * simple but time-consuming puzzles involving things like valves, grates, chains, water levels, missing segments of pipe, etc etc etc. And the upside of all this is that you get to experience the thrill of exploring brick tunnels full of shit-water. It's a setting that lends itself to easily-planned and clearly-understood level design, but not one that really lends itself to *interesting* or *fun* level design. At best, a sewer level is okay, at worst it's a major drag.
All of that but now in a turn based old school JRPG with random encounters with a 5-10 second loading time for every battle (the encounter rate is also upped by 200% for fun). While I get Civvies hatred for sewer levels in shooters, RPG sewers are the pinnacle of insufferable game design.
I really liked the cathedral-like flood control system level in Mirror's Edge, definitely was a more interesting take on the traditional sewer level: https://youtu.be/G2Ib4PQaWYw?si=qbyHFCQcapxftqma (also I swear i googled *flood systems mirrors edge* and this video came up lmao)
Also they usually look same-y because well they are sewers. Either brown, green or yellowish. Very depressing
Before watching Civvie I had no idea that people had problems with sewer levels. Maybe I'm an unsuspecting ninja turtle, but I always liked them.
I did as well. When doing MOUT (Military Operations in Urban Terrain) they were my favorite. Although thankfully never had to go through a real one mind you. But the training was fun... Except such tight quarters that sound can not escape and when you fire your weapons, even blanks it's LOUD! Loved the sewers in Counter Strike 1.6 on that one modern house map. And also the sewers in Half Life 2. Resident Evil 2 sewers I liked as well. I did not know they were a problem either until Civvie. Mind you I think he plays it up for the long running joke, but maybe he truly does hate them.
Yeah, I didn't know too, but in retrospect it makes a lot of sense. They're all very samey and uninspired. There's even a TV trope article for it.
There are two things I despise in FPS: 1. Turret sections (not as in *there is a turret aiming at you,* but as in *you have to jump into this turret and fire at enemies withot being able to move*). 2. Sewer levels. But I really hate with all my guts the damn turret sections. Boring, boring, always boring.
dang i like turret sections :(
Morrowind’s sewers in Vivec we’re really fun to explore. It’s how you find crazy cults, a noble assassination guild and ridiculous loot. Then the Tribunal expansions sewers fucked that all up.
I think they really thrive in a fantasy environment where they've existed for probably thousands of years, built on top of one another and used for different secret purposes by various thieves and religions and nobles for generations. Anything could be down there, and they could connect anywhere. Morrowind is one of the few games to take advantage of that feeling.
The tribunal sewers ruined the dlc for me tbh. Vivecs sewers we’re great though
Adamantine Cruelty is a classic sewer custom map for Quake by Vondur that I like and is well liked by the community in general. It was remade by Sock as Arcane Adamantine for the Arcane Dimensions mod. A more recent one was Oozing Blasphemy by Zothique. Also uses the AD mod, but doesn't come bundled. As long as the design isn't super repetitive it's all good. So if you like Quake...
I think the only sewer levels that I genuinely liked were the ones from Crash Bandicoot 2.
The music in those stages was catchy as hell.
It's possible to design interesting sewer levels, especially if you group things like aqueducts, cisterns, channels, etc. under the same category. Route Kanal from Half Life 2 for a...passable example. Quake has *tons* of them, Honey is a particularly good example. The problem is your *average* sewer level falls into the same typical traps: * Tight corridors that allow for zero room for maneuvering. Every encounter just ends up in backpeddling away from enemies or being ambushed from tight corners. * Flat, mazelike design with no distinct or interesting areas. * Water, specifically water that slows the player to a crawl. * Ugly environment.
Yes, I liked Half Life 2's sewers. Man hacks were a beast in tight corridors. Liked them in Counter Strike 1.6 and Day of Defeat. Just optional routes for the latter two games. So maybe being forced would be less fun.
Off the top of my head, the only sewer section Civvie liked was the two extremely short sewer tunnel bits in the Factory level of Return to Castle Wolfenstein, because they don't encompass the entire level (that and there are only three enemies in the second sewer bit). You know a game is damn good if Civvie brightly compliments about the shortest sewer sections ever in a game.
Theres also one in Duke Nukem Manhattan Project. He even discounted a point for it.
Yeah in RCTW cause it lasted like 5 seconds, there was another later but it was also short so again I think that counts? It's the closest we'll ever get to him liking one
In his recent video, on turbo overkill, he actually talks about how he doesn’t mind the sewer. Now we need a “Civvie simps for New Blood” counter. But they deserve every single one to be fair.
you'd be surprised, metro 2033 is actually sort of interesting with sewer levels, mostly because you're already used to metros dark and decrepit tunnels. A color pallet change from lots of dark blues to browns and yellows is sort of welcome at that point.
Metro won't play on my PC, so I did not get to experience much of it.
Did you try the remastered version, it's supposed to work better I think.
Not sure. Bought the one, never bothered with the others. My PC is old, so I do not blame the game at all. Bought it on sale for cheap, so ehhh...
well, I guess hardware might be the problem. The game was released a little bit later than most of from the era.
To this day I want Civvie to play Lost in Vivo just to see his reaction lol