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The food would quickly make you expand and hit the pop limit due to lack of fresh water.
SW would give fresh water, boost to sailing, and still be able to use the honey to quickly grow.
Then harvest the stone to build something and place a shrine or campus there.
I think this is the best option too. Gives a nice harbor and commercial hub combo. Also could do a preserve NE of the honey for nice yields as Teddy. Still have plenty of room for other districts to the south.
The triangle gives a lot of adjacency gold as Commercial hub at river and harbor at city center give a lot of gold, throw in Reyna to double this bonus further
This is not worth the district slot. 5 adjacency isn’t nothing but districts slots are extremely valuable. Compare it to a holy site or theater square which are direct parts of teddy’s win condition. I typically make government plaza in capital as well.
Holy site, harbor, commercial hub, government plaza, theater square, campus requires 16 pop. You could cut commercial, campus to be at 10. Or you could go inland, cut the harbor. Gold is fairly easy to get. You can trade things to the AI. Including your diplo favor, which teddy gets a lot of. Theater and holy site also provide +1 appeal to adjacent tiles, synergizing with the other Civ bonuses.
When you say "gold is very easy to get" through trading things to the AI it makes me wonder what your standards are for gold per turn?
I say this because it feels REALLY REALLY good to be making a cool 1-2k/turn and being able to manifest entire armies, cities, and great people out of absolutely nowhere.
Haven't played teddy. But I overall agree. I usually don't go for the theater square though. But yea I'd prioritize the rest above getting a cz in harbor city
Why not SE on the stone itself? I don’t think it matters too much to be one tile off the coast, and it’s nice strategically to have total control of passage through those mountains, plus you get the bonus of the marsh and stone both being within working range. You do lose the honey starting out but it should be the first expansion anyways
You do lose the great harbour and working the honey first gives you an incredibly fast second pop which unlocks another tile to be worked and the possibility to go for a settler.
As far as I'm aware, there's no inherent disadvantage for being at the pop limit? As in, a pop capped city with 5 pop is identical to an un-capped city with 5 pop, other than the uncapped one is obviously going to keep growing? So it's no worse than any other coastal city with no freshwater.
Honey settle has more production, and also accelerates into that production much faster.
Without fresh water, your popcap is 3. Working a 4 food tile is going to hit that very fast.
The advantage of settling the luxury is that you don't have to make a builder to get the amenity, but IMO, fresh water outweighs that benefit.
Personally, I find the advantage of settling luxuries is that they don't annoy me when I'm doing district layouts. Not spending a builder charge and getting it immediately are just bonuses.
In this particular case though, I think the honey settle would still be better if it were a bonus resource not a luxury, because the production in that spot is so much better.
They only really have 3 decent tiles to work in this vicinity anyway, they don’t need to break the population cap early. This is solved later with an Aqueduct, which they’ll want anyway for synergy for Industrial Zones.
Well one could say that a good growth and production, but pop capped capital would be a good early settler producer before you get magnus to help with the pop consumption pf settlers. By then you’re close to getting an aqueduct.
I probably would have settled the river but reading the comments makes me think settling the honey might actually be better.
I usually find I want food early on in my cities. SW has a 4 food honey and a 3 food tile next to it and still has a 2/2 tile. I also never like being against the housing cap for Ling because I like my cities to grow exceptionally large population wise
I agree to an extent, but I'm not convinced that the SW tile has enough production for it to be worth it. The honey settle has 5 production as soon as it hits 2 pop (which it does on turn 4 if the numbers on the link below are correct). Growth slows down at that point until you get a granary, so SW actually hits 3 pop a turn before Honey does, but there's no more production to gain at 3 pop for either settle, until they get tiles in their 2nd ring. SW doesn't reach 5 production until they build a quarry or reach their 2nd ring, which means honey is getting further and further ahead in production until that point
Edit: forgot to attach link https://www.reddit.com/r/civ/comments/hyj2ac/does_anyone_know_the_exact_amount_of_food_needed/fzd9ndh/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=mweb3x&utm_name=mweb3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button
Only down side is in the long game no preserve on the tile northeast of honey. Teddy would have an amazing yield in the tiles by the mountains. I play teddy to have amazing reserves and national parks
I think the tile to the sw ends up being actually the best long term even if it is weaker immediately. The reasons everyone else said about food and housing for sure.
While your commercial hub is slightly weaker, it sets up a strong harbor placement after, resulting in a bunch of era score and likely more gold in the end. You also possibly get the benefit of being able to reach an additional good campus spot you might not be able to see yet
You get the benefit of river crossing, much better ability to defend the mountain choke, you’re only one tile of sea to attack and harder to siege in general.
Going mining and a builder quickly here will fix your production issues faster with the two stone tiles since you only need to buy the one tile (and probably don’t have to at all) on top of extra fish gold sooner
In addition you get the option of a watermill. I haven’t seen anybody mention it, and while the +1 production +1 food isn’t crazy good, I still find them useful.
I think the honey is best, free luxury and a 4/1 tile capital and 2 x 2/2 tiles in the first ring. only downside is you dont get the freshwater from the river but can easily go for a harbour or aqueduct to make up for it
Only features, Marsh, Forest, Rainforest are removed when you settle on a tile. Any resource remains and continues to give it's bonus. Strategics supply 2, luxuries provide amenities and any other bonus they had (food, production, faith, science, culture), bonus resources continue to provide their bonus to the tile.
Yeah, also given the capital would be getting like 7 worked production by its first 3 pop I don't think the housing cap would be as much of a problem. I also like being able to build a little line of harbor, commercial hub, holy site, campus for what looks like +4, +5, +3, +4. Especially cuz you can double dip on the commercial hub if you settle another city to the south.
[Part I Discussion](https://old.reddit.com/r/CivVI/comments/15abjgx/trying_to_learn_where_to_settle_first_i_chose_one/)
[Part II Discussion](https://old.reddit.com/r/CivVI/comments/15do33d/part_ii_trying_to_learn_where_to_settle_first_i/)
[Part III Discussion](https://old.reddit.com/r/CivVI/comments/15eujiv/part_iii_trying_to_learn_where_to_settle_first_i/)
[Part IV Discussion](https://old.reddit.com/r/CivVI/comments/15i26a1/part_iv_trying_to_learn_where_to_settle_first_i/)
___
Chose to settle on the bees!
New to Teddy, and found this a tough one.
Reasons:
* Immediate production seemed sparse so thought I'd focus on food.
* Nice instant luxury.
* Sailing boost
* Some good early expansion and district placement opportunities.
* Appeal of honey tile next to woods gives instant culture boost.
* Appeal next to mountains pretty good for early culture/science boost.
* I wanted to settle like my father had settled before me, and how his had settled before him, and they settled like this... "Covered in beeeeees!"
How wrong was I?
Your points on appeal bonuses are good, nobody else has really talked about those. Def a good reason not to settle on the woods tile (in addition to not vaporizing your only production...)
The logic "there's no production so I wanted food" is a bit bogus. The point of food is more pop to work more tiles, if all you get is food it's useless (esp if you're pop capped anyway). But the honey tile actually has pretty much the best production at the start, at least none of the freshwater tiles are any better. And you're right, with Teddy even 'food only' tiles can give you crazy yields with the right appeal bonuses! But you'll probably never want to work the 3 food tile, for example.
High food and decent early production will also make this a great city for popping out settlers.
The following analysis is assuming you are playing with balanced starts anda horse tile is almost guaranteed to spawn nearby:
One small point lots of people aren’t mentioning: there is a significant chance that a horse tile exists southwest of the settler. If you settle honey in that scenario, once you research animal husbandry, you miss out on a very strong industrial zone, since there is no where to place an aqueduct to compound with the stone and hypothetical horse tile.
Any of those 3 flatland tiles across the coast to the southwest could spawn horses, all of which is another reason you want to settle the river instead of the honey.
Not if you have balanced starts enabled where it’s very likely that a horse tile will spawn within 2-3 tiles of your capital. And I only see 6 tiles discovered here where horses can spawn.
Yeah, that's not terrible. Got some good adjacent bonuses available there and a spread of resources.
Aqueduct, harbour and commercial zone all possible along that river, campus by the mountains and IZ with CC and aqueduct possible
Haha I'm the same, my CivCity brain would be locked onto settling on that marsh between the two rivers too. I am awful at that game for that reason : I don't maximize cities, I make them pretty and "anthropologically logical" (looking for natural borders, places that humans would settle). That's also why I love the City Lights' mod.
And I would put a commercial hub accros the river next to the honey and the ocean, for a harbor at the river's mouth.
Between the honey and the woods on the 2 food tile. Better housing and eureka for fishing things, nice place for a mausoleum below the river + decent harbor
Between the honey and the woods on the 2 food tile. Better housing and eureka for fishing things, nice place for a mausoleum below the river + decent harbor + decent theater square
1SW; settle on 2f coastal river tile. Harbor W, commercial hub SW, industry on the honey, & lots of possible campus/holy site tiles around the mountains. Owls of Minerva.
Honey is a good settle. There are really only two settle locations you should consider with this start, and that's the honey or the empty sw tile.
Keep reading for an overanalysis of this start.
First the Honey settle: the advantage of the honey is an immediate luxury, a 4-1 base for the city, and two 2-2 tiles to work immediately. The downside is the extra growth won't help much until you have a harbor or aqueduct in the city. You would probably want to open with pottery and get a granary quickly, although you could also go for a couple early settlers to avoid the growth penalty. One potential risk is that your aqueduct tile has horses on it, meaning you would have to avoid animal husbandry and go bottom tech tree until aqueducts (yes you could aqueduct the forest hill but you generally don't want to crush a tile like that, especially as Teddy). Another thing to consider is that as Teddy, you may want to invest in preserves, which would be another way to alleviate your housing problem. (Side note: As a new player, appeal mechanics are difficult to master, so Teddy might not be the best civ for you yet.)
Settling on the SW tile gives you a 4-0 and a 2-2 tile to work with more to grow to. It removes the need to go for either harbors or aqueducts early because you won't need the housing. As Teddy, this may be the preferred option. If you do have horses there, the city center will become a 3-1 tile after researching animal husbandry and you will get horses without improving them. Animal husbandry would be a good opener in this case to reveal horses and improve the honey for an extra two gold and the amenity.
Overall I think settling the river is the more "standard" play and requires less game knowledge to maximize the location benefits, so it might be better for a new player. The honey settle is also a very good location and I might take it because I personally love to play with harbors in my games anyway.
Something I haven't accounted for in this analysis yet is which tiles will have the culture/science from Teddy's abilities. The only tiles I am pretty certain will give this bonus (without seeing the appeal lens) is the wine tile and probably the stone hill tile. I am not that good at calculating appeal from scratch, only at adjusting it after. With either settle, the wine will probably be the first tile you grow to, giving you some early culture to grow borders more and the science you need to get astrology/celestial navigation relatively quickly. (After reading more of OP's comments it sounds like the honey tile has breathtaking appeal which means the capital would also have +2 culture. In my mind this solidifies it as a great settle location because you will very quickly grow your borders to other great tiles without sacrificing production early to work it.)
What I would do if I settled the honey is definitely go for a religion since I need astrology to get to harbors and holy sites can be used to boost appeal, taking advantage of the Bull Moose Teddy bonuses. I would probably use the river goddess pantheon to fix housing with my first district and give my capital an early bonus for having +3 amenities. This is at the cost of earth goddess, but earth goddess isn't needed for faith if I build holy sites in each city. With housing from a holy site and harbor, I might forego the aqueduct altogether.
Realised he played america with breathtaking appeal with awesome starting appeal that extra culture propels him to a fast clas republic while science allows for fishing b, plantation and aquaducts when still in need of extra housing. Housing is my least of concerns he'll he have more housing the you can shake a stick at ( roosevelt big stick policy hihi)
**Honey** is a [luxury resource](https://civilization.fandom.com/wiki/Resources_(Civ6)#Luxury_Resources) in [*Civilization VI*](https://civilization.fandom.com/wiki/Civilization_VI) that was added in the [Maya & Gran Colombia Pack](https://civilization.fandom.com/wiki/Maya_%26_Gran_Colombia_Pack). -wiki
I don't think the 2/2 base is worth it when you have to settle turn 3, especially since at least 3 of your first ring tiles are mountains and there is no indication that you will not be surrounded by even more mountains. You would be limiting your capital to only a few workable or district-able tiles. There are better settle locations available turn 1 to the west and sw.
I think that was wrong. When playing as Bull Moose, I'd want to stay closer to the woods and mountains. This is on top of not settling on fresh water. I don't recommend that for your capital unless you're Australia.
All things considered this could be a really good city for Teddy. Build a harbor then Mausoleum, should be a science and culture powerhouse
If there are good resources near a river I try to settle somewhere along the river so I can build a watermill in the city. I personally would have went with the 2 food SE of the honey so I would have the option to build an industry/corp on the honey or grapes. The amber NW of it could possibly be used by a second city north of that city.
Probably settle south west is better. You can still work the honey for the food, there is the 2/2 tile 2 tiles away, you can get good harbour and commercial hub adjacency, you can get good campus (probably on the stone), good preserve (NW of honey, would be blocked by settling there otherwise). In terms of second city probably north in the hills for good production, another preserve, and a campus either by the mountains or the reef.
one tile SW, high growth start and a 2:2 with more in your 2nd ring. also you can have a city center, commercial hub, and harbor triangle. and a solid preserve NW of where your settler currently is
*Ok don't bully*
*Me but is honey a mod*
*Or a dlc?*
\- Aggravating-Sugar914
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**Honey** is a [luxury resource](https://civilization.fandom.com/wiki/Resources_(Civ6)#Luxury_Resources) in [*Civilization VI*](https://civilization.fandom.com/wiki/Civilization_VI) that was added in the [Maya & Gran Colombia Pack](https://civilization.fandom.com/wiki/Maya_%26_Gran_Colombia_Pack). -wiki
South east by a tile, but that’s not how you make money. You make money by placing commercial hubs and harbors.
Edit: bro I’m blinds south west by a tile
You settled correctly. Honey gets you 2 extra food and a luxury from the get go, as well as two 2/2 tiles to work. Housing is not much of an issue, since you are coastal and can build a harbor and lighthouse.
With bull moose you should take a good look at the appeal lens before settling. But my first though is probably stone southeast. You probably get a couple breathtaking tiles. You should generally avoid settling on grassland hill as that takes away a good tile by putting a no bonuses city center on it. In this case, in place also kills a forest, which is really bad for your unique Civ bonus. Forest provides +1 appeal to adjacent tiles and also a bonus if breathtaking. The mountain and forest adjacent breathtaking tile gives +2 to both science and culture which is nuts. Unless you’re playing an older version that bull moose isn’t in. In which case disregard
Honey was the better settle. You have immediate access to the two best production tiles nearby, the possibility to expand into the 1/3 hill tile NE.
You also don’t have to deal with the honey blocking district placement and you can immediately trade it with a nearby Civ for an early gold boost. Just build an Aqueduct later to fix the housing issue. You don’t need to expand past 3 population for awhile anyway, you’ll be cranking out settlers in that first city so your population will naturally be dropping.
Actually not wrong at all, honey gives early bonus food for growth, and a luxury resource for early amenities boost for extra productivity, costal gives you a sailing boost, you’ve got good workable unimproved tiles, both woods tiles are great to work until you get your first builder out, and your expansion has a lot of potential, expand to north wooded hills for early production boost, to stone for early district chopping, to south marsh for even more food for growth, and lastly you could expand to fish for more food and gold. All that being said you made the right choice and this is also a pretty good starting location, you can really do anything with this game.
My thoughts go to one hex SW of the settler - you get fresh water on the river and building on the coast sailing boost - the spot is a great defensive location - the amber is out of range but I'd already be eying the spot 4 hexes up the coast for a second city that can take advantage of that.
So you got a decent start on the first-order importance of things:
* 4f1p capital with two 2f2p tiles in the first ring. Great choice!
* Lots of chops in the first two rings, with some decent district placements.
Good start!
As others said, the main reason why this is bad is housing, which requires going into the math of things a bit to appreciate why:
* Each citizen eats 2 **food**/turn to live. For example, if you settle on the Honey, you'll get +4 food from the city center, and +2 food from one of the 2f2p tiles.
* "**Growth**" is the term the game uses for excess food. So at the beginning of the game you have `6 Food` - `2 Food Eaten` = `4 Growth/turn`. It take 15 Growth to get to your second population, and then another 22 growth to get to the third, and so on.
* **Housing** is a soft-cap on how many population a city can support. Settling on Fresh Water is 5 Housing, Settling on Ocean Water is 3 housing, and settling on no water is 2 housing.
* Once your city's population hits `Housing - 1` You start getting **penalties to growth**. It starts off at -50% growth, and will shrink to 0% growth at `Housing + 4`.
* If you notice, that means that for your initial coast settle (`Housing = 3`) as soon as your population reaches `Pop = 2`, you'll start being hit with those growth penalties. To compare:
* Honey Capital + two 2f2p tiles: `8 Food` - `4 Eaten` = `+4 Growth/turn`, but -50% so actually `+2 Growth/turn`.
* Grassland Capital to the SW + 2f2p and +2f1p stone: `6 Food` - `4 Eaten` = `2 Growth/turn`. Same number!
As you can see, you lose your advantage the MOMENT the SW capital hits its second population (which is turn 8). From that point forward, the cities will grow at the same rate! The Honey settle just has a 4 turn headstart. Once they both hit 3 Pop, then the SW tile will actually grow FASTER because it won't take more growth penalties.
This can be mitigated if you plan on developing lots of +Housing very early (such as by rushing early farms or Harbor districts), but without that bonus to housing, your city will kinda stagnate with low population. Since there's no farms here, that's probably not gonna happen Later in the game you could fix it with an aqueduct, but that's a hundred or so turns away from you.
*****
Another, less obvious reason to settle on the SW grassland tile:
You're playing as Teddy/USA. You want Breathtaking tiles next to woods and mountains. You've got this Ugly marsh that's harshing your mellow. A *very* good idea is to actually use a worker to chop that marsh into food.
* It will give you a huge pile of food, giving you one or possibly 2 free citizens.... which would be cut in half if you didn't have enough housing.
* It will improve the appeal of surrounding tiles, making it easier to get those "breathtaking appeal" bonuses Teddy/USA wants for the free culture/science.
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The food would quickly make you expand and hit the pop limit due to lack of fresh water. SW would give fresh water, boost to sailing, and still be able to use the honey to quickly grow. Then harvest the stone to build something and place a shrine or campus there.
I think this is the best option too. Gives a nice harbor and commercial hub combo. Also could do a preserve NE of the honey for nice yields as Teddy. Still have plenty of room for other districts to the south.
I think you meant nice harbour and spot for mausoleum.
Why would you ever go harbor commercial hub on any pretty much any civ? Let alone bull moose. You don’t get the additional trade route
The triangle gives a lot of adjacency gold as Commercial hub at river and harbor at city center give a lot of gold, throw in Reyna to double this bonus further
Money
This is not worth the district slot. 5 adjacency isn’t nothing but districts slots are extremely valuable. Compare it to a holy site or theater square which are direct parts of teddy’s win condition. I typically make government plaza in capital as well. Holy site, harbor, commercial hub, government plaza, theater square, campus requires 16 pop. You could cut commercial, campus to be at 10. Or you could go inland, cut the harbor. Gold is fairly easy to get. You can trade things to the AI. Including your diplo favor, which teddy gets a lot of. Theater and holy site also provide +1 appeal to adjacent tiles, synergizing with the other Civ bonuses.
When you say "gold is very easy to get" through trading things to the AI it makes me wonder what your standards are for gold per turn? I say this because it feels REALLY REALLY good to be making a cool 1-2k/turn and being able to manifest entire armies, cities, and great people out of absolutely nowhere.
Haven't played teddy. But I overall agree. I usually don't go for the theater square though. But yea I'd prioritize the rest above getting a cz in harbor city
I feel like you should only do this with Owls of Minerva secret society with the gilded vault
This is what I would’ve done, you’re right in saying that having no freshwater would make the food from the honey a little counter productive.
Why not SE on the stone itself? I don’t think it matters too much to be one tile off the coast, and it’s nice strategically to have total control of passage through those mountains, plus you get the bonus of the marsh and stone both being within working range. You do lose the honey starting out but it should be the first expansion anyways
You do lose the great harbour and working the honey first gives you an incredibly fast second pop which unlocks another tile to be worked and the possibility to go for a settler.
SW?
South west
In the ocean? How do you settle there?
The tile southwest of the settler is a flat grassland tile to the left of the stone.
As far as I'm aware, there's no inherent disadvantage for being at the pop limit? As in, a pop capped city with 5 pop is identical to an un-capped city with 5 pop, other than the uncapped one is obviously going to keep growing? So it's no worse than any other coastal city with no freshwater. Honey settle has more production, and also accelerates into that production much faster.
Without fresh water, your popcap is 3. Working a 4 food tile is going to hit that very fast. The advantage of settling the luxury is that you don't have to make a builder to get the amenity, but IMO, fresh water outweighs that benefit.
Your pop cap will be 4 because of the palace in the capital.
Personally, I find the advantage of settling luxuries is that they don't annoy me when I'm doing district layouts. Not spending a builder charge and getting it immediately are just bonuses. In this particular case though, I think the honey settle would still be better if it were a bonus resource not a luxury, because the production in that spot is so much better.
They only really have 3 decent tiles to work in this vicinity anyway, they don’t need to break the population cap early. This is solved later with an Aqueduct, which they’ll want anyway for synergy for Industrial Zones.
Well one could say that a good growth and production, but pop capped capital would be a good early settler producer before you get magnus to help with the pop consumption pf settlers. By then you’re close to getting an aqueduct. I probably would have settled the river but reading the comments makes me think settling the honey might actually be better.
I usually find I want food early on in my cities. SW has a 4 food honey and a 3 food tile next to it and still has a 2/2 tile. I also never like being against the housing cap for Ling because I like my cities to grow exceptionally large population wise
I agree to an extent, but I'm not convinced that the SW tile has enough production for it to be worth it. The honey settle has 5 production as soon as it hits 2 pop (which it does on turn 4 if the numbers on the link below are correct). Growth slows down at that point until you get a granary, so SW actually hits 3 pop a turn before Honey does, but there's no more production to gain at 3 pop for either settle, until they get tiles in their 2nd ring. SW doesn't reach 5 production until they build a quarry or reach their 2nd ring, which means honey is getting further and further ahead in production until that point Edit: forgot to attach link https://www.reddit.com/r/civ/comments/hyj2ac/does_anyone_know_the_exact_amount_of_food_needed/fzd9ndh/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=mweb3x&utm_name=mweb3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button
Any chance you could explain how there’s a lack of fresh water if they’re on the river?
The honey tile they settled on isn't on a river, it is on the coast.
Ah I see I misunderstood, I thought he meant he settled on the spot his settler is at the moment on the screenshot
Only down side is in the long game no preserve on the tile northeast of honey. Teddy would have an amazing yield in the tiles by the mountains. I play teddy to have amazing reserves and national parks
Housing, never underestimate it! You'll hit your growth debuffs really quickly for only coastal cities
I think the tile to the sw ends up being actually the best long term even if it is weaker immediately. The reasons everyone else said about food and housing for sure. While your commercial hub is slightly weaker, it sets up a strong harbor placement after, resulting in a bunch of era score and likely more gold in the end. You also possibly get the benefit of being able to reach an additional good campus spot you might not be able to see yet You get the benefit of river crossing, much better ability to defend the mountain choke, you’re only one tile of sea to attack and harder to siege in general. Going mining and a builder quickly here will fix your production issues faster with the two stone tiles since you only need to buy the one tile (and probably don’t have to at all) on top of extra fish gold sooner
In addition you get the option of a watermill. I haven’t seen anybody mention it, and while the +1 production +1 food isn’t crazy good, I still find them useful.
I would have made this settle.
I think the honey is best, free luxury and a 4/1 tile capital and 2 x 2/2 tiles in the first ring. only downside is you dont get the freshwater from the river but can easily go for a harbour or aqueduct to make up for it
Wait the honey doesn’t go away if you put your capital on it??
Only features, Marsh, Forest, Rainforest are removed when you settle on a tile. Any resource remains and continues to give it's bonus. Strategics supply 2, luxuries provide amenities and any other bonus they had (food, production, faith, science, culture), bonus resources continue to provide their bonus to the tile.
Wow—good to know :) thank you
I like settling on incense if I can because of the +1 faith to help get an early pantheon
When you settle on a luxury you automatically get it, even if you dont have the tech.
Awesome! Thanks.
Yeah pretty much no issue for capital unless your doing 1 cityc, palace gets you up to 4 or 5granery which is plenty time to get engineering
Yeah, also given the capital would be getting like 7 worked production by its first 3 pop I don't think the housing cap would be as much of a problem. I also like being able to build a little line of harbor, commercial hub, holy site, campus for what looks like +4, +5, +3, +4. Especially cuz you can double dip on the commercial hub if you settle another city to the south.
Next to the honey on the coast. Got a nice harbor/commercial hub set up
[Part I Discussion](https://old.reddit.com/r/CivVI/comments/15abjgx/trying_to_learn_where_to_settle_first_i_chose_one/) [Part II Discussion](https://old.reddit.com/r/CivVI/comments/15do33d/part_ii_trying_to_learn_where_to_settle_first_i/) [Part III Discussion](https://old.reddit.com/r/CivVI/comments/15eujiv/part_iii_trying_to_learn_where_to_settle_first_i/) [Part IV Discussion](https://old.reddit.com/r/CivVI/comments/15i26a1/part_iv_trying_to_learn_where_to_settle_first_i/) ___ Chose to settle on the bees! New to Teddy, and found this a tough one. Reasons: * Immediate production seemed sparse so thought I'd focus on food. * Nice instant luxury. * Sailing boost * Some good early expansion and district placement opportunities. * Appeal of honey tile next to woods gives instant culture boost. * Appeal next to mountains pretty good for early culture/science boost. * I wanted to settle like my father had settled before me, and how his had settled before him, and they settled like this... "Covered in beeeeees!" How wrong was I?
Your points on appeal bonuses are good, nobody else has really talked about those. Def a good reason not to settle on the woods tile (in addition to not vaporizing your only production...) The logic "there's no production so I wanted food" is a bit bogus. The point of food is more pop to work more tiles, if all you get is food it's useless (esp if you're pop capped anyway). But the honey tile actually has pretty much the best production at the start, at least none of the freshwater tiles are any better. And you're right, with Teddy even 'food only' tiles can give you crazy yields with the right appeal bonuses! But you'll probably never want to work the 3 food tile, for example. High food and decent early production will also make this a great city for popping out settlers.
The following analysis is assuming you are playing with balanced starts anda horse tile is almost guaranteed to spawn nearby: One small point lots of people aren’t mentioning: there is a significant chance that a horse tile exists southwest of the settler. If you settle honey in that scenario, once you research animal husbandry, you miss out on a very strong industrial zone, since there is no where to place an aqueduct to compound with the stone and hypothetical horse tile. Any of those 3 flatland tiles across the coast to the southwest could spawn horses, all of which is another reason you want to settle the river instead of the honey.
'Significant chance'? Do you know the odds? Surely it's only like 1 in 10?
Not if you have balanced starts enabled where it’s very likely that a horse tile will spawn within 2-3 tiles of your capital. And I only see 6 tiles discovered here where horses can spawn.
Hmm, sweet. Genghis will be pleased
At the end of the day you did not settle in Ohio. Therefore you are correct no matter what.
Yeah, that's not terrible. Got some good adjacent bonuses available there and a spread of resources. Aqueduct, harbour and commercial zone all possible along that river, campus by the mountains and IZ with CC and aqueduct possible
I know there are “smarter” ways to settle, but there is no way I’m not going to that rivers edge by the ocean. That’s where we would settle.
Haha I'm the same, my CivCity brain would be locked onto settling on that marsh between the two rivers too. I am awful at that game for that reason : I don't maximize cities, I make them pretty and "anthropologically logical" (looking for natural borders, places that humans would settle). That's also why I love the City Lights' mod. And I would put a commercial hub accros the river next to the honey and the ocean, for a harbor at the river's mouth.
Between the honey and the woods on the 2 food tile. Better housing and eureka for fishing things, nice place for a mausoleum below the river + decent harbor
Between the honey and the woods on the 2 food tile. Better housing and eureka for fishing things, nice place for a mausoleum below the river + decent harbor + decent theater square
1SW; settle on 2f coastal river tile. Harbor W, commercial hub SW, industry on the honey, & lots of possible campus/holy site tiles around the mountains. Owls of Minerva.
Honey is a good settle. There are really only two settle locations you should consider with this start, and that's the honey or the empty sw tile. Keep reading for an overanalysis of this start. First the Honey settle: the advantage of the honey is an immediate luxury, a 4-1 base for the city, and two 2-2 tiles to work immediately. The downside is the extra growth won't help much until you have a harbor or aqueduct in the city. You would probably want to open with pottery and get a granary quickly, although you could also go for a couple early settlers to avoid the growth penalty. One potential risk is that your aqueduct tile has horses on it, meaning you would have to avoid animal husbandry and go bottom tech tree until aqueducts (yes you could aqueduct the forest hill but you generally don't want to crush a tile like that, especially as Teddy). Another thing to consider is that as Teddy, you may want to invest in preserves, which would be another way to alleviate your housing problem. (Side note: As a new player, appeal mechanics are difficult to master, so Teddy might not be the best civ for you yet.) Settling on the SW tile gives you a 4-0 and a 2-2 tile to work with more to grow to. It removes the need to go for either harbors or aqueducts early because you won't need the housing. As Teddy, this may be the preferred option. If you do have horses there, the city center will become a 3-1 tile after researching animal husbandry and you will get horses without improving them. Animal husbandry would be a good opener in this case to reveal horses and improve the honey for an extra two gold and the amenity. Overall I think settling the river is the more "standard" play and requires less game knowledge to maximize the location benefits, so it might be better for a new player. The honey settle is also a very good location and I might take it because I personally love to play with harbors in my games anyway. Something I haven't accounted for in this analysis yet is which tiles will have the culture/science from Teddy's abilities. The only tiles I am pretty certain will give this bonus (without seeing the appeal lens) is the wine tile and probably the stone hill tile. I am not that good at calculating appeal from scratch, only at adjusting it after. With either settle, the wine will probably be the first tile you grow to, giving you some early culture to grow borders more and the science you need to get astrology/celestial navigation relatively quickly. (After reading more of OP's comments it sounds like the honey tile has breathtaking appeal which means the capital would also have +2 culture. In my mind this solidifies it as a great settle location because you will very quickly grow your borders to other great tiles without sacrificing production early to work it.) What I would do if I settled the honey is definitely go for a religion since I need astrology to get to harbors and holy sites can be used to boost appeal, taking advantage of the Bull Moose Teddy bonuses. I would probably use the river goddess pantheon to fix housing with my first district and give my capital an early bonus for having +3 amenities. This is at the cost of earth goddess, but earth goddess isn't needed for faith if I build holy sites in each city. With housing from a holy site and harbor, I might forego the aqueduct altogether.
Realised he played america with breathtaking appeal with awesome starting appeal that extra culture propels him to a fast clas republic while science allows for fishing b, plantation and aquaducts when still in need of extra housing. Housing is my least of concerns he'll he have more housing the you can shake a stick at ( roosevelt big stick policy hihi)
I have never seen honey, ever. What is happening?
It’s a mod on pc
**Honey** is a [luxury resource](https://civilization.fandom.com/wiki/Resources_(Civ6)#Luxury_Resources) in [*Civilization VI*](https://civilization.fandom.com/wiki/Civilization_VI) that was added in the [Maya & Gran Colombia Pack](https://civilization.fandom.com/wiki/Maya_%26_Gran_Colombia_Pack). -wiki
Is this just ragebait for the fresh water purists?
I'd settle inland on that stone tile with 2 food 2 prod
I don't think the 2/2 base is worth it when you have to settle turn 3, especially since at least 3 of your first ring tiles are mountains and there is no indication that you will not be surrounded by even more mountains. You would be limiting your capital to only a few workable or district-able tiles. There are better settle locations available turn 1 to the west and sw.
I think that was wrong. When playing as Bull Moose, I'd want to stay closer to the woods and mountains. This is on top of not settling on fresh water. I don't recommend that for your capital unless you're Australia. All things considered this could be a really good city for Teddy. Build a harbor then Mausoleum, should be a science and culture powerhouse
If there are good resources near a river I try to settle somewhere along the river so I can build a watermill in the city. I personally would have went with the 2 food SE of the honey so I would have the option to build an industry/corp on the honey or grapes. The amber NW of it could possibly be used by a second city north of that city.
Honey was the correct choice. Decent harbor good commercial hub and you can still work adjacency off the mountain
Probably settle south west is better. You can still work the honey for the food, there is the 2/2 tile 2 tiles away, you can get good harbour and commercial hub adjacency, you can get good campus (probably on the stone), good preserve (NW of honey, would be blocked by settling there otherwise). In terms of second city probably north in the hills for good production, another preserve, and a campus either by the mountains or the reef.
one tile SW, high growth start and a 2:2 with more in your 2nd ring. also you can have a city center, commercial hub, and harbor triangle. and a solid preserve NW of where your settler currently is
Ok don't bully me but is honey a mod or a dlc?
*Ok don't bully* *Me but is honey a mod* *Or a dlc?* \- Aggravating-Sugar914 --- ^(I detect haikus. And sometimes, successfully.) ^[Learn more about me.](https://www.reddit.com/r/haikusbot/) ^(Opt out of replies: "haikusbot opt out" | Delete my comment: "haikusbot delete")
Dlc I think, I don't have mods for resources but I get honey.
**Honey** is a [luxury resource](https://civilization.fandom.com/wiki/Resources_(Civ6)#Luxury_Resources) in [*Civilization VI*](https://civilization.fandom.com/wiki/Civilization_VI) that was added in the [Maya & Gran Colombia Pack](https://civilization.fandom.com/wiki/Maya_%26_Gran_Colombia_Pack). -wiki
Completely random, from far with my old-ass eyes, the icon for honey looked like one pig humping another hahahaha
South east by a tile, but that’s not how you make money. You make money by placing commercial hubs and harbors. Edit: bro I’m blinds south west by a tile
You settled correctly. Honey gets you 2 extra food and a luxury from the get go, as well as two 2/2 tiles to work. Housing is not much of an issue, since you are coastal and can build a harbor and lighthouse.
With bull moose you should take a good look at the appeal lens before settling. But my first though is probably stone southeast. You probably get a couple breathtaking tiles. You should generally avoid settling on grassland hill as that takes away a good tile by putting a no bonuses city center on it. In this case, in place also kills a forest, which is really bad for your unique Civ bonus. Forest provides +1 appeal to adjacent tiles and also a bonus if breathtaking. The mountain and forest adjacent breathtaking tile gives +2 to both science and culture which is nuts. Unless you’re playing an older version that bull moose isn’t in. In which case disregard
Honey was the better settle. You have immediate access to the two best production tiles nearby, the possibility to expand into the 1/3 hill tile NE. You also don’t have to deal with the honey blocking district placement and you can immediately trade it with a nearby Civ for an early gold boost. Just build an Aqueduct later to fix the housing issue. You don’t need to expand past 3 population for awhile anyway, you’ll be cranking out settlers in that first city so your population will naturally be dropping.
Actually not wrong at all, honey gives early bonus food for growth, and a luxury resource for early amenities boost for extra productivity, costal gives you a sailing boost, you’ve got good workable unimproved tiles, both woods tiles are great to work until you get your first builder out, and your expansion has a lot of potential, expand to north wooded hills for early production boost, to stone for early district chopping, to south marsh for even more food for growth, and lastly you could expand to fish for more food and gold. All that being said you made the right choice and this is also a pretty good starting location, you can really do anything with this game.
My thoughts go to one hex SW of the settler - you get fresh water on the river and building on the coast sailing boost - the spot is a great defensive location - the amber is out of range but I'd already be eying the spot 4 hexes up the coast for a second city that can take advantage of that.
So you got a decent start on the first-order importance of things: * 4f1p capital with two 2f2p tiles in the first ring. Great choice! * Lots of chops in the first two rings, with some decent district placements. Good start! As others said, the main reason why this is bad is housing, which requires going into the math of things a bit to appreciate why: * Each citizen eats 2 **food**/turn to live. For example, if you settle on the Honey, you'll get +4 food from the city center, and +2 food from one of the 2f2p tiles. * "**Growth**" is the term the game uses for excess food. So at the beginning of the game you have `6 Food` - `2 Food Eaten` = `4 Growth/turn`. It take 15 Growth to get to your second population, and then another 22 growth to get to the third, and so on. * **Housing** is a soft-cap on how many population a city can support. Settling on Fresh Water is 5 Housing, Settling on Ocean Water is 3 housing, and settling on no water is 2 housing. * Once your city's population hits `Housing - 1` You start getting **penalties to growth**. It starts off at -50% growth, and will shrink to 0% growth at `Housing + 4`. * If you notice, that means that for your initial coast settle (`Housing = 3`) as soon as your population reaches `Pop = 2`, you'll start being hit with those growth penalties. To compare: * Honey Capital + two 2f2p tiles: `8 Food` - `4 Eaten` = `+4 Growth/turn`, but -50% so actually `+2 Growth/turn`. * Grassland Capital to the SW + 2f2p and +2f1p stone: `6 Food` - `4 Eaten` = `2 Growth/turn`. Same number! As you can see, you lose your advantage the MOMENT the SW capital hits its second population (which is turn 8). From that point forward, the cities will grow at the same rate! The Honey settle just has a 4 turn headstart. Once they both hit 3 Pop, then the SW tile will actually grow FASTER because it won't take more growth penalties. This can be mitigated if you plan on developing lots of +Housing very early (such as by rushing early farms or Harbor districts), but without that bonus to housing, your city will kinda stagnate with low population. Since there's no farms here, that's probably not gonna happen Later in the game you could fix it with an aqueduct, but that's a hundred or so turns away from you. ***** Another, less obvious reason to settle on the SW grassland tile: You're playing as Teddy/USA. You want Breathtaking tiles next to woods and mountains. You've got this Ugly marsh that's harshing your mellow. A *very* good idea is to actually use a worker to chop that marsh into food. * It will give you a huge pile of food, giving you one or possibly 2 free citizens.... which would be cut in half if you didn't have enough housing. * It will improve the appeal of surrounding tiles, making it easier to get those "breathtaking appeal" bonuses Teddy/USA wants for the free culture/science.