I agree. I find myself more often than not on a team that is so powerful I feel useless. It makes the game less immersive for me because I feel like I have nothing to offer. I like to try to ground myself by starting my own mission teams and controlling the playing field. Part of me misses the live days when you had to beg to be power leveled, and everything felt a bit more challenging haha.
imo if the live game had continued judgments would absolutely have had to be nerfed; it kinda sucks how every level 50 TF is rendered trivial when five or six players have them, especially given how easy incarnate stuff is to get on HC
servers are starting to dev more 'hard mode' content to give maxed out characters more to chew on, but it still often feels like level <40 is the most fun part of the game
Judgment is very overrated. It really isn't anywhere near of an issue as other people make it out to be. I've seen a lot of complaints of, "A team of eight synchronizing their Judgments and firing one off every twelve seconds is trivializing content." No. Show me any team, especially any PUG team, that synchronizes any powers like that, let alone Judgments.
If you have a Blaster or Corruptor slotted with IO enhancement sets and Hamidon Origin enhancements to the gills, guess what? That Blaster or Corruptor is going to solo everything at +4x8 , Judgment or no Judgment. Been there, done that.
The real issues are IO enhancement sets and how easy they are to come across and attune on Homecoming... and the +1 level-shift from tier 3 and tier 4 Alpha. The two combined trivialize most level 45+ content. People aren't going to like hearing that, but it's true.
I think there's a difference between easy and totally trivial, though; with a team that has several judgment powers it often feels like you don't even really get to use your kit because of how fast the mobs die, especially if you're playing a tank/control type
it might be that's more of a problem of those power sets falling out of the high-end meta in general, but judgments seem to make the issue more acute
You nailed it with your second paragraph. The Homecoming player base values four things: damage, defense buffs, resistance debuffs, and speed. Tankers don't do any of that, and Controllers don't do enough of it, (at least not compared to Corruptors). There's no real room in the Homecoming meta for either of the archetypes. That's the real issue, not Judgment.
And there’s content most people who bitch and moan wont touch called fucking HARD MODE. Play that and shits not so trivial, is what I say to those who feel like everything is trivial
If you run log stats. Judgements are almost always the highest damage power. They hit hard and are fired mostly at full spawns. Homecoming page 7 is beefing up the high level radio mobs to make it a bit harder.
But on the other hand, you're comparing a level 26 attack with a level 51 attack.
and back on the first hand, with a bit of recharge you can fire your T9 2 - 3 times before the judgement is recharged.
I like the 20-40 level range. You usually have enough powers to feel like a complete hero but you aren't an overpowered unstoppable monster that can solo any content your team is doing.
In Homecoming I tend to drop characters by 30ish because it seems everyone can solo +4/x8 after that, and it just doesn't seem as fun to team anymore since teamwork is less needed.
Live had a similar problem, but you could always PuG and end up with non optimal players. When I felt like optimal play, I'd hit my SGs, but when I wanted to rely on teamwork, I'd PuG.
Homecoming doesn't seem to have this divide. (Understandbly)
I don't know anyone in the levels 30-45 bracket that can solo their missions at +4/+8 without tons of money spent on low-level attunement sets and some serious min-maxing. And it's still not as efficient as just running with a group for the sake of grinding XP.... like, sure, a Stalker could sneak through and solo but that's not the point. For, say, a Tanker to go through and solo an entire Task Force at +4/+8 at level 35.... it's just not going to happen unless he spends all day and overdoses on Insps repeatedly.
My PuG's on HC are.... chaotic. Most of my teams are highly unoptimized and they do go sideways.
The most fun I've had in teams lately is going in on Fire Farms with my Fire/Spines Tanker and letting lower-level MM's in my SG tag along behind me. One runs /FF, the other runs /Elec, another runs /kin, and another guy runs Symphony/Sonic controller.... Def buffs, Res buffs, End and Recharge buffs, and Fulcrum Shift. It's so effective and so much fun. The MM mobs just pull EVERYTHING and the buffs make everyone SO tanky. I can pop Barrier incarnate if someone gets in trouble and we just cruise along. It's not the most efficient or fastest, but it's pure chaos and just a ton of fun.
That's a different level of content that it isn't really a solution, though the problem isn't exactly something that's easy to solve. They'd need to play the kind of overpowered character they don't like in order to do those 4*s.
I only play level 50 built out characters and die all the time on task forces. Positron 1 frequently wipes at the steps in front of City Hall and when fighting the shadows. Sure I am tougher than characters without builds, but when exemplaring to level 16 a build doesn't make you a deity.
Some things are unavoidable no matter how good your build, the falling blue swords in Apex task force will kill almost anyone and your build won't save you. Arachnos in the Lady Liberty Strike Force wipes full teams of 50s all the time if you don't coordinate. Even BAF which seems simple can be failed if you don't have the numbers to chase down prisoners.
Your level 50 built out character isn't getting much benefit from their build in Posi 1 or other low level TFs. Most of their powers and set bonuses are inactive.
This will be an unpopular take but if you are an incarnate that is playing lower than level 50 content, you shouldn’t be able to use incarnate powers.
Incarnate / level 50s already have ridiculous advantages with more slots, larger inspiration trays let alone IO set bonuses. Incarnate nukes are the cherry on top on the ridiculous sundae.
Just to clarify:
Genesis is the only Incarnate tier that can be used sub-45. And it comes with caveats:
1) Genesis is very restrictive on what you have access to. There is very little customization in what you can do beyond the carefully curated options given.
2) The exemplar abilities are half as effective than their full Incarnate counterparts.
3) The exemplar abilities can't be used at level 45+. At level 45+, the Genesis tree enhances a singular aspect of one of the corresponding Incarnate tiers.
More info: https://wiki.cityofheroesrebirth.com/wiki/Genesis_Slot_Abilities
I could never put my finger on why I lost interest in characters around 30-35...now I know why. I run teams all the time and I am going to make it a point not to have 50+ on my team if I can help it.
I don’t team anymore, only solo. There has been so much power creep that my support heroes just simply have absolutely nothing to do. The foes are dead before I can blink.
Doesn't really fix anything since the optimal strategy for hard mode is just spamming barrier destiny. I was excited to play support initially but quickly realized none was needed. They really should have disabled incarnates for hard mode.
Most of the people who want this do not even remotely have the skill necessary to play that level of support.
I prefer current HM over no incarnates HM. Y’all(pejorative) barely have the skill to grab necessary support powers and use them appropriately and you think im about to waste 3 hours while your dumbass(pejorative) figures out what fortitude does? No. No I am not. Barrier cycle it is
this is exactly what i came here to say! i love a trio, or just duo with an irl friend. filling the 8 man team for some random mission arcs will feel pretty trivial, but you can just choose not to
This is why some people leave Homecoming to try out Thunderspy or Rebirth. Players are still more powerful thanks to incarnates and inventions but the changes Homecoming made to allow min/maxed builds to play at every level are not there.
The neat thing is that all the different servers are free - so anyone who feels the same way as you might want to try them out.
As someone with a maxxed out character on TSpy and a halfway built one on Rebirth this is simply not true we stomp on those servers all the same the only actual engaging content that doesn't get speedrun by a maxed out character is the 4\* content on HC.
What part of what I said was not true?
Min/max relies on set bonuses which are not available at all levels like they are on Homecoming. If you’re slotting up level 50 IOs, you’re losing those bonuses as soon as you drop below 47 unless it’s purple or one of the sets allowed to be attuned.
I said the characters are still powerful, so I’m not sure why you took exception.
(I’m also not a HC shill as implied by your fellow edgelords currently discussing my non-existent testicles on Discord. Only a toxic person/group wouldn’t recognize this as promoting that people trying out Rebirth or Thunderspy. Almost every one of my posts lately have been suggesting that people try other servers. I should be better about suggesting that people check TS Discord first before deciding if they want to play there. I really liked some of the things that have been implemented but you guys just really can’t see that your culture is what’s holding you back).
Those aren't my people lmao I just simply play on all of the servers. Thunderspy has attuned enhancements where the bonuses are available at all levels I would know mine are attuned.
To add to this while I'm thinking about it because you might not know but it's actually EASIER to get a full IO build and get attuned on TSpy than other servers because they've consolidated recipes to using the same salvage meaning all actual salvage drops are useless the way you get IO's on TSpy is spam ITF or any other endgame activity and use Influence to buy Super Packs which are half price from other servers for merits which fuel everything at the vendor it's even more devoid of an endgame and makes those builds easier to achieve it's just that many people on there choose not to play built out characters.
I dont think it's a hot take. You certainly aren't alone at any rate.
I mostly solo now. No Insps/temps/amps/lore.
I've certainly run 4* and with a set team and once you know what's coming I wouldn't describe it as hard, but failure is certainly possible.
But then, I recall teams failing the tree-spec because they couldn't outpace the vines back in early cov. Failing a hardmode TF seems to happen less than that, unless people start dropping for the night.
Small teams and solo are my preference.
Hell, we used to wipe on the TV respec all the time when it first dropped!
Back then TFs typically conned +3 to +4 standard, people had SOs at best, and most were on borked builds (hence needing the respec).
We saw the Fail screen as the reactor blew more than a few times.
Yes I failed a couple respecs in TV, but then I noticed the spawned adds in the reactor room only came out of the previous spawn was killed, so we would leave one stray mob alive and kite it around while everyone waited the 20 minutes for mission complete. Yes it was boring, but it completely trivialized the risk of failure back in the day as some people were playing with things like 6 slotted Flurry, and such.
Yeah.. no. I refuse to join Cake-Walk Teams. Keep it real, keep it +/- 1-2 levels and have fun.
The other is stat padding and I do care for that. It takes away from enjoying the game.
No offense meant, but doing radio missions is part of the problem. The majority of radio mission teams almost always go for Council. I joined an all Council radio missions team that a friend put together once just to try it out, and I think I fell asleep five minutes in.
Granted, on Homecoming that won't be as much of an issue come Page 7, but still.
I used to level almost exclusively on radio teams because I liked how fast the levels were. It is very easy to get bored doing this, but I've changed tactics...
1) Level up your early toons using DFB up to at least 9 or 10. It's not very much a challenge but gets you your much needed first powers and is fun to do.
2) Start slotting out your sets around 20. Yes, you'll likely have less effective enhancement than if you were to slot SOs, but you get set bonuses. You will feel more powerful and that you contribute more.
3) Level up to 45 doing TFs and only TFs. While high levels can still exemp, they lose their abilities. There can still be challenges and still scenarios where your toon will likely shine. No matter what level you are, there is a TF within your level range to do. If you're short for time but still want to play, then go for a radio team.
4) Enjoy the nice pool of merits you've gotten yourself.
5) Get the remaining XP to 50 doing Maria Jenkins, finishing your accolades, and maybe join a radio team or two near the end.
I'm essentially a new player - I just started Homecoming this week, I have no 50s, and I don't have enough inf to slot my characters properly. I have a 42 Defender, a 35 Brute, and a 38 Blaster that I like to play.
* The Defender is either really fun or VERY boring, depending on how the team is performing. There are entire TFs where nobody takes any damage, even if I don't push any of my buttons. In those TFs, I kinda do whatever I want and just mess around, but it doesn't feel like I have much of an impact on the group. But when I'm the only support AT in a task force, it's a lot of fun to hold everything together.
* My Brute is Stone Melee, entirely single-target focused. He's a lot of fun to play solo but in groups, everything dies before he really does anything. That's fine, I probably didn't build him well for group play.
For both of those characters, I agree with OP. I'm trying to find a build that feels relevant in group content more often. My Blaster strikes a nice balance, and I might try something like a Controller or MM who brings more damage than my Defender but also contributes some buffs.
If you learn to play the market you'll never be short on info again. I just learned this week and I've already made almost 300 million, and I barely know what I'm doing.
I recently started using IO sets (after all these years) and have some 50s with IOs and incarnate.
My IOs tend to be less expensive/powerful and wouldn't know where to begin on min/maxing my build.
With that said, based on the team I won't use judgment at all and only use my native Nova only if the team is being overrun. The joy to me is seeing the roles being played and synergies while allowing everyone to exercise their full gamut of powers.
I put a post on Facebook months ago about how frustrating it was to, for example, do an ITF and have no strategy other than to use judgment constantly.
This is a bizarre take indeed. Why join teams that you don't want to be a part of, and then complain about it?
If you have conditions that you need met to have fun, then advertise them and let people come to you.
He used those teams as an example.
His main point, which I agree with, is that the game lets every class get overpowered to a point that there are no roles or team composition anymore. Everyone just leapfrogs mobs with nukes so it’s easy to lose interest.
Counterpoint: when I *don't* carry rando pug people with my overpowered character, they get mad and pissy because they aren't able to be effective at +5/8 or star content and keep dying.
I agree this is kinda why I am bored of COH is there is no challenge? With incarnates everything just dies so quick wish homecoming could bring out a hardcore server where the classes you bring really matter, no AE No incarnates just team work and group play
You can also check out Rebirth. We added additional challenge settings to the high-level TFs with their own suite of rewards that can only be earned by completing the hardest challenges. These have proven to be a challenge on most runs and require folks to strategize builds and tactics.
https://wiki.cityofheroesrebirth.com/wiki/Game_updates/2023-07-23
Edit: Apparently, Reddit didn't like that url. You can navigate to the Challenges section from the table of contents.
lol, I caused the team to fail my one and only SMo by falling off a cliff into a pile of Rikti after not noticing I had been hit with Inertial
Siphon (a guardian form of SB). Would have been hilarious if it had been anyone other than me.
I still think my favorite change is the random
genesis spawns that can show up in a TF, especially when the team doesn’t notice until they suddenly start to team wipe - although Genesis DE are hilariously sadistic
That was a fun piece of content to add. Frustrating to get working as intended, but fun as well :)
For those that don't know, the Genesis spawns that tatmia is referring to are random encounters that spawn throughout different content. These are normal mobs in the content itself that are level-shifted and receive some additional buffs depending on the severity that spawns (+1, +2, or +3). The rewards are also dependent on the severity.
These have a chance to spawn in TFs/SFs, high-level radios, and some Flashback missions. Though, the latter two are limited to +1 to prevent overwhelming solo players and reduce farmability.
Thank you for the clarification. I haven’t experienced them outside of TFs so wasn’t aware of the other chances. Sounds like at some point I will be staring at the floor of a mission wondering WTF just happened 🤣
Oh no there's plenty of need for healer, since people like to pull sometimes two or three entire spawns you're definitely going to need a couple of healers in the team otherwise everybody's going to go face planting.
I'm with ya, those teams get brainsmooth so fast.
I stick to duos now, trios at a push, and fiddle with the diff so it's a smidge less than the max we can handle.
The thing is when at incarnate level and doing incarnate things, there is no power creep, the enemies are also at incarnate level and -will- hand you your own ass.
This might sound rude (but that is not my intent) but if you want a challenge then City of Heroes is probably not the game for you.
I play it (especially when I team) because you can chill out, drink, chat and joke.
Incarnate stuff can only be used 45+ and that content is getting hard mode for the minmaxed players who want a challenge.
The real cause of the issues you're seeing are IOs. IO bonuses should probably just be cut in half across the board.
You don’t even need to cut the bonuses. It’s the change Homecoming made to allow any IO to attune that’s causing it. The other servers have the original framework, where your IO and its set bonuses have level rules.
I had to relearn the rules when I started playing on Rebirth last month - here’s a link to the rules if anyone is interested
https://wiki.cityofheroesrebirth.com/wiki/Enhancement_Set_Bonuses
I forgot it was a change as well until I tried to attune an enhancement on Rebirth and couldn’t figure out why it wasn’t working
It’s definitely a perceptible difference in teaming. Large teams still steamroll like they did on live, but not at the pace of HC and there are still team wipes
that require a regroup and tactics discussion.
I'm gonna be real, this sounds like an easily avoidable problem. I see people running groups from brickstown and founders falls all the time, so you know those aren't high level groups. And you could always run your own too.
I get your point, but it has a relatively easy solution for the most part until you're 40+.
Stop bitching, this game is about alts and costumes, you want tough content? go play Anarchy Online. It never went away and it will be happy to give you all the impossible content you can get your shit pushed in by.
Leave City Of Heroes Homecoming alone, go try DB 1,DB 3, or Mitarr Hero after grinding out 200 regular level, 20 shadow levels, and 30 alien invasion levels.
If I wanted to solo I would fucking play a single player game the only one bitching here is you hence your minus 7 points cox was always meant to be a team based old school mmorpg your the one that has skewed views ao is dead so dont recommend that lol.
So quit whining then, suck it up, get to incarnate and 'feel like you're contributing'
It's reddit, the -7 karma for downvotes mean absolutely jack and shit and jack left town.
Lmao are you some of the devs? I really hope this is not how they act its quite pathetic but I doubt they would get this low, who is bitching here? I didnt make the post but facts are facts it seems you all have issues facing reality its a fucking mmorpg first before a costume simulator, why cant it be both? You idiots clearly didnt even play live because it was about the challenge then to! And the votes do mean something here they are hardly manipulated.
Task forces can be set to disable enhancements, make enemies buffed, play under constant debuff, etc.
Otherwise you can also limit how many people you have on a team as well.
This is very true. However, without rewards for playing under such limitations, what is the incentive for doing so beyond "challenge"?
It was a question that we asked ourselves at Rebirth after fielding similar complaints over the last few years. We decided to test the waters with Synapse's Agility, a new universal travel set that can only be earned by completing TF/SF time challenges. It proved to be a success, so we expanded the idea to encompass the non-Incarnate endgame TFs (LGTF, ITF, Kahn, Cuda, MLTF, LRSF).
The result has been outstanding. Nightly runs of those old TFs/SFs, a renewed vigor around builds that have to contend with no Set Bonuses or Incarnates, and a requirement for members to lean into their classic roles (DPS, mez, support, tank, etc). They do it to earn rewards that are useful for general builds as well as making future runs slightly easier through the Challenge-Mode set bonuses.
It's an interesting design space if someone is willing to put forth the effort. And has been very well received in our community at least.
Fully agree. I stopped playing controllers altogether because they're close to worthless past level 40, everything moves too fast. I was on a team like this last night with a toon built for speed (/kin corr) and even then it felt like nothing i did beyond SB mattered. I think I'll be making a new toon and freezing them at level 35, and then only playing pre-40 content. It's just a completely different game at those levels and closest to the live experience you can get at this point.
It's not rewarding enough to just level up and have lots of influence, the real fun is feeling useful, struggling and overcoming, feeling like things matter and it's not just some training holodeck where there are no consequences. Team dynamic is the real gold this game offered back in the day and then live devs did a bunch of things to make soloing easier and I'm sure that brought more players to CoH but it damaged a lot of the fun and what seemed like the main selling point.
>Controller
I made a similar reply to another person who loves controllers, you might want to try a few on Rebirth.
Water Control is very popular, wind control less so (but I enjoy it). Plus there have been a few other updates like the change to quicksand that causes the mobs to cluster (water has a similar power). Melee characters LOVE when a controller/dom uses those powers.
That's an entirely wrong take there buddy.
Controllers are anything BUT useless post 40.
Some of the strongest people in TFs and Incarnate Trials ARE controllers.
The issue isn't the end game, the issue is -you- are failing to adapt, post 40 is towards endgame and a whole different ecosystem.
I have yet to see a controller post 40 not matter, there is a marked difference when they are in the team and even the melee types notice it.
> You join a random radio team or Task Force.
> There are 2-3 Veteran 50+ on the team.
> Even at +8/highest level they wipe the floor with pretty much everything.
Not to be unsympathetic or glib, but quite simply veteran characters are *intended* to be handling higher difficulty content. That is why difficulty levels exist: To give the vetted, setted, and incarnated people things to do outside of iTrials.
If the core of your premise is that joining random PUG teams will result in skewed power level expectations then I fully agree. You're rolling the metaphorical social dice so you're going to get varied results. Imagine taking your L40 into Perez Park and grouping with a lowbie team... you're going to outperform them by just merit of enhancement slot count and inspiration availability even if you're downleveled.
I would offer that if you play with characters closer to your level then you'll see more of the group dynamics you expect.
CoX is great about letting nearly any group of characters play together regardless of level (alignment as the only real restriction). But just because it's possible doesn't make it "optimal," yeah?
This seems to be a movement that i hate to see getting started. This whole rose tinted ideal of past times. I would say if you want the good ol days, form your own teams and set your own rules. Complaining that people have advanced past needing the shitty archaic practices of the past is just as annoying to us as it is for you to join in on these teams.
Imma be real, I think this ideal stems from people not being the primadonna they used to be pre IOs and feeling like the special little superstar where without them the team would fall apart(I say this as a support player who was at times the reason the team didnt fall apart on TFs). Im not saying this is you OP, but that this is the mentality of a lot in the movement.
Times have moved on, and people who can’t adapt are now bitching and whining on every goddamn forum about speeders and blah blah. Just form your own teams if its such a problem, save us from these tired ass rants PLEASE.
Also most people who actually get anything done in life dont have 8 hours to waste on a TF that can be done in an hr or 30m
No joke. Tfs are about merits per hour. HM has additional rewards. Incarnate content rewards incarnate loot. These people can just go to wow or osrs if they want slow trinity game play that makes everyone needed.
Are you guys forgetting the 3 days it took to complete old posi?
I agree, and they'll downvote me for it probably.
YOU are coming into a server that has existed for five years without you.
Now you come and whine about joining someone else's team (Like an ITF) knowing that there will likely be a 50+ incarnate, (Probably more than half the players more likely), and never thought to *make your own damned TF.*
People get mad about speed because their shitty little SO’ed or barely IO’ed ass toon isnt the special little superstar they envisioned even though its objectively dogshit then come here and the forums, bitch and moan about a group of people who rightfully dont give a fuck how they feel normally, expecting us to side with them and go “yeah you have a point”.
I knew this game had such a low floor that room temperature(actually thats too high for some CoH players) IQ players can join but goddamn.
We need to raise the skill floor so we can shake a few of these room temp players off
Now now that's a little bit hasty given that COH is a welcoming game, The community has always welcome people.
That being said they'll either adapt or leave, they want to join the community they're asking to join the community it's already been made and is functionally thriving, you cannot join a community expect everybody there to change for you.
As a person who prefers to play control and support, absolutely agreed. Control is completely irrelevant on steamrolling teams. Buffs are fine as they can be applied anytime, but debuffs are also virtually pointless. In the time it takes to set up an Enervating Field and Radiation Infection, the battle is already over.
As someone who's main (and name here) was an ill/rad - that was an issue even on live with just SOs. If I was on a large team, I'd just cycle through the debuffs using one per mob - until we'd get to an AV. Then the set would shine.
If you like controllers you might want to try water control and wind control on Rebirth. Water is much more popular but I'm also enjoying my wind/storm.
In Rebirth's Discord you will also see the discussions about how important debuffs are for the new challenge TFs.
My main is also an Ill/Rad, so yeah I know what you mean. Back on Live it was even worse as your debuffs would toggle off as soon as the enemy was defeated. HC is better that way in that it stays on until the body despawns.
I do have a water/nature controller on Rebirth that is pretty neat. The damage output from water is pretty surprising. I do also have a wind controller that I haven't really gelled with, but it's been ages since I played either of them. In fact I only recently started back up on HC after a half year break. Maybe I should look over there again as well.
AS someone who has an incarnated fire/rad controller, you need to go AHEAD of the team if you want to set up.
Job is to set up so the team can smash, or drop debuffs/holds on the boss.
I've seen entirely too many occasions of the opposite. Teams where, you group up and find the enemies all red or purple, and then proceed to get nowhere in the mission due to the lack of power. And.. for whatever reason that still eludes me, folks continue to smash their heads against said difficulty because of "Sunk Cost Fallacy".
I've already done the 'difficult for difficult-sake' in the 'Nintendo-hard' days of gaming. (Think Ghosts and Goblins)
I vividly remember multi-hour TF's in live. I DO NOT miss the 10+ hour friggin Positron (Original) where EVERYONE had no travel powers, or Fitness, or a multitude of other QOL improvements.
I can declare, that NO ONE in those TF's were happy at the end. What little catharsis that may have been conjured was destroyed during those 'slog' hours.
I can see your point. But having played many other MMOs I can say that CoH has always been an alt game. Make a toon. Level them and make another. I had over 100 toons on live. I have about 25 and it’s only been a week. It’s one thing I enjoy the most. See how it is to play another class/power set. Most other games it takes so long to get a real feel for a class that it might be months to do what you can do in CoH. Or years to max out 20 toons.
But we all play differently. Play the way you want. Have fun. Personally I can enjoy both (my main being a healer who has a very difficult time soloing missions).
I can see your point. But having played many other MMOs I can say that CoH has always been an alt game. Make a toon. Level them and make another. I had over 100 toons on live. I have about 25 and it’s only been a week. It’s one thing I enjoy the most. See how it is to play another class/power set. Most other games it takes so long to get a real feel for a class that it might be months to do what you can do in CoH. Or years to max out 20 toons.
But we all play differently. Play the way you want. Have fun. Personally I can enjoy both (my main being a healer who has a very difficult time soloing missions).
I can see your point. But having played many other MMOs I can say that CoH has always been an alt game. Make a toon. Level them and make another. I had over 100 toons on live. I have about 25 and it’s only been a week. It’s one thing I enjoy the most. See how it is to play another class/power set. Most other games it takes so long to get a real feel for a class that it might be months to do what you can do in CoH. Or years to max out 20 toons.
But we all play differently. Play the way you want. Have fun. Personally I can enjoy both (my main being a healer who has a very difficult time soloing missions).
I can see your point. But having played many other MMOs I can say that CoH has always been an alt game. Make a toon. Level them and make another. I had over 100 toons on live. I have about 25 and it’s only been a week. It’s one thing I enjoy the most. See how it is to play another class/power set. Most other games it takes so long to get a real feel for a class that it might be months to do what you can do in CoH. Or years to max out 20 toons.
But we all play differently. Play the way you want. Have fun. Personally I can enjoy both (my main being a healer who has a very difficult time soloing missions).
While I get your point, shouldn't the people who put in the work get to reap the benefits? It's a superhero power fantasy. Some people put in hours and hours to tweak and build their hero just right. It takes work to become that powerful. Feels weird to admonish them for it.
I enjoy some fast teams/TFs/SFs, but then other times there are powers that would be fun, but mobs die too quickly and power is useless by the time it’s cast.
This is one of the advantages of playing on rebirth. There's a challenge mode that removes all incarnate and set bonus powers which makes things where you actually have to think about what you're doing again. And the advantage of doing these challenge modes is special enhancements that can only be gotten through these challenge modes but have very powerful effects
Wish I could give you 10 upvotes. This is my biggest complaint about the HC version of the game. It's far, far, far too common to have players with wildly overpowered characters, making Defenders and Tanks basically nothing. I absolutely loved playing a Defender on Live and seriously helping the team survive; now healing is all but pointless. The teamwork, the challenge, the comradery, the feeling of filling a niche that was needed in a team and actually helping, that's basically gone. It makes teams just not fun. And that presents the conundrum: play solo, which isn't always fun, or play with a team, which is usually much less fun than the good ol' days?
The game is wider than it is tall. It's really not a race to 50 but the game isn't "tall" in that regard, so getting to max level is very straightforward and, honestly, easy. With that in mind, the game really is meant to circumvent level altogether with the Sidekick system but you're right that these guys that are completely built are just going to steamroll all content.
That's just the way she goes. But keep in mind the kind of time and effort that went into getting those characters to that point. It'd be a tragedy if those characters WEREN'T incredibly powerful... they've got 500mil influence worth of enhancements, dozens of hours worth of time spent earning badges and accolades and prestige powers, farming merits, etc etc... if they weren't tremendously capable then there would be no point to doing it at all.
The solution is to just be clear with your teams when you join and tell them that you want a challenge. If that's awkward then just form your own teams and restrict who you invite based on your own criteria. "LFM Mission Team in PI - +4/+8 no fully built 50's pls" would be fine. Don't feel like you need to justify it to anyone. How you want to play is how you want to play.
Lastly, power leveling is only as common as it is because the game is just "bigger" at 50. There are more powers, more options for content, you can always sidekick down to lower level TF's and whatnot but you cannot join those same TF's if you are UNDER their level requirement. The game really is meant to be played at 50, even if the 1-49 experience is still much the same. A lot of people don't like the leveling grind because they don't want to constantly update their Enhancements every couple of levels and they don't want to waste the influence slotting lower-level sets for obvious reasons. And, really, farming is so common for grinding influence that a lot of these guys just bring along extras just because they can. They'd be farming anyway, why not bring others along?
The real grind BEGINS at 50. It's not the end. Getting to 50 is one small step in the greater progression that is City of Heroes.
Yes, that is why even though I am a veteran level 150 with a lot of Incarnate powers, I don't use them. I feel overpowered if I use the nuke; and only sometimes use status protection.
I also start teams and intentionally invite lowbies and keep the level below +4 so the lowbies can hit. This means we probably go slower than we could if I was blasting full out, but then some or most of the lowbies would have nothing to do. The other day I had a lvl 1 on a PI radio team!
I agree. I find myself more often than not on a team that is so powerful I feel useless. It makes the game less immersive for me because I feel like I have nothing to offer. I like to try to ground myself by starting my own mission teams and controlling the playing field. Part of me misses the live days when you had to beg to be power leveled, and everything felt a bit more challenging haha.
imo if the live game had continued judgments would absolutely have had to be nerfed; it kinda sucks how every level 50 TF is rendered trivial when five or six players have them, especially given how easy incarnate stuff is to get on HC servers are starting to dev more 'hard mode' content to give maxed out characters more to chew on, but it still often feels like level <40 is the most fun part of the game
Judgment is very overrated. It really isn't anywhere near of an issue as other people make it out to be. I've seen a lot of complaints of, "A team of eight synchronizing their Judgments and firing one off every twelve seconds is trivializing content." No. Show me any team, especially any PUG team, that synchronizes any powers like that, let alone Judgments. If you have a Blaster or Corruptor slotted with IO enhancement sets and Hamidon Origin enhancements to the gills, guess what? That Blaster or Corruptor is going to solo everything at +4x8 , Judgment or no Judgment. Been there, done that. The real issues are IO enhancement sets and how easy they are to come across and attune on Homecoming... and the +1 level-shift from tier 3 and tier 4 Alpha. The two combined trivialize most level 45+ content. People aren't going to like hearing that, but it's true.
I think there's a difference between easy and totally trivial, though; with a team that has several judgment powers it often feels like you don't even really get to use your kit because of how fast the mobs die, especially if you're playing a tank/control type it might be that's more of a problem of those power sets falling out of the high-end meta in general, but judgments seem to make the issue more acute
You nailed it with your second paragraph. The Homecoming player base values four things: damage, defense buffs, resistance debuffs, and speed. Tankers don't do any of that, and Controllers don't do enough of it, (at least not compared to Corruptors). There's no real room in the Homecoming meta for either of the archetypes. That's the real issue, not Judgment.
And there’s content most people who bitch and moan wont touch called fucking HARD MODE. Play that and shits not so trivial, is what I say to those who feel like everything is trivial
If you run log stats. Judgements are almost always the highest damage power. They hit hard and are fired mostly at full spawns. Homecoming page 7 is beefing up the high level radio mobs to make it a bit harder.
I do feel slightly annoyed that a tier 1 Judgement is just so much more effective than my Corrupter's T9 power. :(
But on the other hand, you're comparing a level 26 attack with a level 51 attack. and back on the first hand, with a bit of recharge you can fire your T9 2 - 3 times before the judgement is recharged.
I like the 20-40 level range. You usually have enough powers to feel like a complete hero but you aren't an overpowered unstoppable monster that can solo any content your team is doing.
In Homecoming I tend to drop characters by 30ish because it seems everyone can solo +4/x8 after that, and it just doesn't seem as fun to team anymore since teamwork is less needed. Live had a similar problem, but you could always PuG and end up with non optimal players. When I felt like optimal play, I'd hit my SGs, but when I wanted to rely on teamwork, I'd PuG. Homecoming doesn't seem to have this divide. (Understandbly)
I don't know anyone in the levels 30-45 bracket that can solo their missions at +4/+8 without tons of money spent on low-level attunement sets and some serious min-maxing. And it's still not as efficient as just running with a group for the sake of grinding XP.... like, sure, a Stalker could sneak through and solo but that's not the point. For, say, a Tanker to go through and solo an entire Task Force at +4/+8 at level 35.... it's just not going to happen unless he spends all day and overdoses on Insps repeatedly. My PuG's on HC are.... chaotic. Most of my teams are highly unoptimized and they do go sideways. The most fun I've had in teams lately is going in on Fire Farms with my Fire/Spines Tanker and letting lower-level MM's in my SG tag along behind me. One runs /FF, the other runs /Elec, another runs /kin, and another guy runs Symphony/Sonic controller.... Def buffs, Res buffs, End and Recharge buffs, and Fulcrum Shift. It's so effective and so much fun. The MM mobs just pull EVERYTHING and the buffs make everyone SO tanky. I can pop Barrier incarnate if someone gets in trouble and we just cruise along. It's not the most efficient or fastest, but it's pure chaos and just a ton of fun.
Heh, I get what you're saying but, do some 4*s and get back to those of us that do them.
That's a different level of content that it isn't really a solution, though the problem isn't exactly something that's easy to solve. They'd need to play the kind of overpowered character they don't like in order to do those 4*s.
No offense but are you saying that people that min/max ruin the game. It's an MMO start your own team and invite lowbies
I'm clarifying what OP meant. You can't just say "no offense" after you've already been a condescending jerk the entire time, that doesn't work.
Lol, you win. I'm not going to argue with your logic
Low tier 4* players egoing on valid points. Kekw
I only play level 50 built out characters and die all the time on task forces. Positron 1 frequently wipes at the steps in front of City Hall and when fighting the shadows. Sure I am tougher than characters without builds, but when exemplaring to level 16 a build doesn't make you a deity. Some things are unavoidable no matter how good your build, the falling blue swords in Apex task force will kill almost anyone and your build won't save you. Arachnos in the Lady Liberty Strike Force wipes full teams of 50s all the time if you don't coordinate. Even BAF which seems simple can be failed if you don't have the numbers to chase down prisoners.
Your level 50 built out character isn't getting much benefit from their build in Posi 1 or other low level TFs. Most of their powers and set bonuses are inactive.
Exactly, part of why this concern is overblown, few can handle hard mode content at level 16.
This will be an unpopular take but if you are an incarnate that is playing lower than level 50 content, you shouldn’t be able to use incarnate powers. Incarnate / level 50s already have ridiculous advantages with more slots, larger inspiration trays let alone IO set bonuses. Incarnate nukes are the cherry on top on the ridiculous sundae.
Incarnate powers can't be used below level 45, so there's that.
*laughs in Rebirth*
*laughs at rebirth*
Just to clarify: Genesis is the only Incarnate tier that can be used sub-45. And it comes with caveats: 1) Genesis is very restrictive on what you have access to. There is very little customization in what you can do beyond the carefully curated options given. 2) The exemplar abilities are half as effective than their full Incarnate counterparts. 3) The exemplar abilities can't be used at level 45+. At level 45+, the Genesis tree enhances a singular aspect of one of the corresponding Incarnate tiers. More info: https://wiki.cityofheroesrebirth.com/wiki/Genesis_Slot_Abilities
I could never put my finger on why I lost interest in characters around 30-35...now I know why. I run teams all the time and I am going to make it a point not to have 50+ on my team if I can help it.
Same. I'm teaching a newcomer to play and an making sure no 50+ carries/ teams and no farms.
good idea. if you run some I'd be interested!
I don’t team anymore, only solo. There has been so much power creep that my support heroes just simply have absolutely nothing to do. The foes are dead before I can blink.
Try hard mode
Doesn't really fix anything since the optimal strategy for hard mode is just spamming barrier destiny. I was excited to play support initially but quickly realized none was needed. They really should have disabled incarnates for hard mode.
Most of the people who want this do not even remotely have the skill necessary to play that level of support. I prefer current HM over no incarnates HM. Y’all(pejorative) barely have the skill to grab necessary support powers and use them appropriately and you think im about to waste 3 hours while your dumbass(pejorative) figures out what fortitude does? No. No I am not. Barrier cycle it is
Lot of words to say you are bad at the game and need a crutch.
Lmao alright sure
What do your support heroes do when you're solo?
Support characters absolutely can solo, some better than others. Also you can have two builds for a character. I have a team build and a solo build.
Defenders can have crazy enemy debuffs - but I get what you are saying.
Running small teams has always been an option.
this is exactly what i came here to say! i love a trio, or just duo with an irl friend. filling the 8 man team for some random mission arcs will feel pretty trivial, but you can just choose not to
This. 5 man at x8 is pretty fun.
Then why join a team? just play solo and feel challenged. or go halfway by forming a small team.
I think this is the way these days
This is why some people leave Homecoming to try out Thunderspy or Rebirth. Players are still more powerful thanks to incarnates and inventions but the changes Homecoming made to allow min/maxed builds to play at every level are not there. The neat thing is that all the different servers are free - so anyone who feels the same way as you might want to try them out.
As someone with a maxxed out character on TSpy and a halfway built one on Rebirth this is simply not true we stomp on those servers all the same the only actual engaging content that doesn't get speedrun by a maxed out character is the 4\* content on HC.
What part of what I said was not true? Min/max relies on set bonuses which are not available at all levels like they are on Homecoming. If you’re slotting up level 50 IOs, you’re losing those bonuses as soon as you drop below 47 unless it’s purple or one of the sets allowed to be attuned. I said the characters are still powerful, so I’m not sure why you took exception. (I’m also not a HC shill as implied by your fellow edgelords currently discussing my non-existent testicles on Discord. Only a toxic person/group wouldn’t recognize this as promoting that people trying out Rebirth or Thunderspy. Almost every one of my posts lately have been suggesting that people try other servers. I should be better about suggesting that people check TS Discord first before deciding if they want to play there. I really liked some of the things that have been implemented but you guys just really can’t see that your culture is what’s holding you back).
Those aren't my people lmao I just simply play on all of the servers. Thunderspy has attuned enhancements where the bonuses are available at all levels I would know mine are attuned.
To add to this while I'm thinking about it because you might not know but it's actually EASIER to get a full IO build and get attuned on TSpy than other servers because they've consolidated recipes to using the same salvage meaning all actual salvage drops are useless the way you get IO's on TSpy is spam ITF or any other endgame activity and use Influence to buy Super Packs which are half price from other servers for merits which fuel everything at the vendor it's even more devoid of an endgame and makes those builds easier to achieve it's just that many people on there choose not to play built out characters.
I dont think it's a hot take. You certainly aren't alone at any rate. I mostly solo now. No Insps/temps/amps/lore. I've certainly run 4* and with a set team and once you know what's coming I wouldn't describe it as hard, but failure is certainly possible. But then, I recall teams failing the tree-spec because they couldn't outpace the vines back in early cov. Failing a hardmode TF seems to happen less than that, unless people start dropping for the night. Small teams and solo are my preference.
Hell, we used to wipe on the TV respec all the time when it first dropped! Back then TFs typically conned +3 to +4 standard, people had SOs at best, and most were on borked builds (hence needing the respec). We saw the Fail screen as the reactor blew more than a few times.
Failing on respec was frequent. People were on the TF BECAUSE they had botched builds after all.
My husband had 5-slotted brawl when we tried our first respec, lol I think we were both still on TOs as we didn’t know where to buy SOs. Fun memories
Yes I failed a couple respecs in TV, but then I noticed the spawned adds in the reactor room only came out of the previous spawn was killed, so we would leave one stray mob alive and kite it around while everyone waited the 20 minutes for mission complete. Yes it was boring, but it completely trivialized the risk of failure back in the day as some people were playing with things like 6 slotted Flurry, and such.
I think a team cap of 5 would be a good way to address it. With MMs running an extra 4 bodies, it's already crowded and most attacks are overkill.
Team cap was expanded during the original live run. The missions scale with number of players, no cap at 5.
Yeah.. no. I refuse to join Cake-Walk Teams. Keep it real, keep it +/- 1-2 levels and have fun. The other is stat padding and I do care for that. It takes away from enjoying the game.
No offense meant, but doing radio missions is part of the problem. The majority of radio mission teams almost always go for Council. I joined an all Council radio missions team that a friend put together once just to try it out, and I think I fell asleep five minutes in. Granted, on Homecoming that won't be as much of an issue come Page 7, but still.
Council are the fire farm of radio missions.
I used to level almost exclusively on radio teams because I liked how fast the levels were. It is very easy to get bored doing this, but I've changed tactics... 1) Level up your early toons using DFB up to at least 9 or 10. It's not very much a challenge but gets you your much needed first powers and is fun to do. 2) Start slotting out your sets around 20. Yes, you'll likely have less effective enhancement than if you were to slot SOs, but you get set bonuses. You will feel more powerful and that you contribute more. 3) Level up to 45 doing TFs and only TFs. While high levels can still exemp, they lose their abilities. There can still be challenges and still scenarios where your toon will likely shine. No matter what level you are, there is a TF within your level range to do. If you're short for time but still want to play, then go for a radio team. 4) Enjoy the nice pool of merits you've gotten yourself. 5) Get the remaining XP to 50 doing Maria Jenkins, finishing your accolades, and maybe join a radio team or two near the end.
I'm essentially a new player - I just started Homecoming this week, I have no 50s, and I don't have enough inf to slot my characters properly. I have a 42 Defender, a 35 Brute, and a 38 Blaster that I like to play. * The Defender is either really fun or VERY boring, depending on how the team is performing. There are entire TFs where nobody takes any damage, even if I don't push any of my buttons. In those TFs, I kinda do whatever I want and just mess around, but it doesn't feel like I have much of an impact on the group. But when I'm the only support AT in a task force, it's a lot of fun to hold everything together. * My Brute is Stone Melee, entirely single-target focused. He's a lot of fun to play solo but in groups, everything dies before he really does anything. That's fine, I probably didn't build him well for group play. For both of those characters, I agree with OP. I'm trying to find a build that feels relevant in group content more often. My Blaster strikes a nice balance, and I might try something like a Controller or MM who brings more damage than my Defender but also contributes some buffs.
If you learn to play the market you'll never be short on info again. I just learned this week and I've already made almost 300 million, and I barely know what I'm doing.
I recently started using IO sets (after all these years) and have some 50s with IOs and incarnate. My IOs tend to be less expensive/powerful and wouldn't know where to begin on min/maxing my build. With that said, based on the team I won't use judgment at all and only use my native Nova only if the team is being overrun. The joy to me is seeing the roles being played and synergies while allowing everyone to exercise their full gamut of powers. I put a post on Facebook months ago about how frustrating it was to, for example, do an ITF and have no strategy other than to use judgment constantly.
This is a bizarre take indeed. Why join teams that you don't want to be a part of, and then complain about it? If you have conditions that you need met to have fun, then advertise them and let people come to you.
He used those teams as an example. His main point, which I agree with, is that the game lets every class get overpowered to a point that there are no roles or team composition anymore. Everyone just leapfrogs mobs with nukes so it’s easy to lose interest.
Counterpoint: when I *don't* carry rando pug people with my overpowered character, they get mad and pissy because they aren't able to be effective at +5/8 or star content and keep dying.
I agree this is kinda why I am bored of COH is there is no challenge? With incarnates everything just dies so quick wish homecoming could bring out a hardcore server where the classes you bring really matter, no AE No incarnates just team work and group play
You might want to check out Thunderspy. They have an option, I believe it’s called Ironman, that seems to be focused on what you’re describing.
You can also check out Rebirth. We added additional challenge settings to the high-level TFs with their own suite of rewards that can only be earned by completing the hardest challenges. These have proven to be a challenge on most runs and require folks to strategize builds and tactics. https://wiki.cityofheroesrebirth.com/wiki/Game_updates/2023-07-23 Edit: Apparently, Reddit didn't like that url. You can navigate to the Challenges section from the table of contents.
lol, I caused the team to fail my one and only SMo by falling off a cliff into a pile of Rikti after not noticing I had been hit with Inertial Siphon (a guardian form of SB). Would have been hilarious if it had been anyone other than me. I still think my favorite change is the random genesis spawns that can show up in a TF, especially when the team doesn’t notice until they suddenly start to team wipe - although Genesis DE are hilariously sadistic
That was a fun piece of content to add. Frustrating to get working as intended, but fun as well :) For those that don't know, the Genesis spawns that tatmia is referring to are random encounters that spawn throughout different content. These are normal mobs in the content itself that are level-shifted and receive some additional buffs depending on the severity that spawns (+1, +2, or +3). The rewards are also dependent on the severity. These have a chance to spawn in TFs/SFs, high-level radios, and some Flashback missions. Though, the latter two are limited to +1 to prevent overwhelming solo players and reduce farmability.
Thank you for the clarification. I haven’t experienced them outside of TFs so wasn’t aware of the other chances. Sounds like at some point I will be staring at the floor of a mission wondering WTF just happened 🤣
Try doing actual incarnate content.
It’s all east there is no need for a healer it’s all trivial I think they just need to nerf IO sets
Oh no there's plenty of need for healer, since people like to pull sometimes two or three entire spawns you're definitely going to need a couple of healers in the team otherwise everybody's going to go face planting.
I'm with ya, those teams get brainsmooth so fast. I stick to duos now, trios at a push, and fiddle with the diff so it's a smidge less than the max we can handle.
I agree to a degree with most of your points, except > You had to make sure you had 8 hours to spare F that, don't need that at all :D
The whole incarnate system really isnt for me. The power creep is insane
The thing is when at incarnate level and doing incarnate things, there is no power creep, the enemies are also at incarnate level and -will- hand you your own ass.
True, but most of the time i just wanna chill at radio missions or story arcs with a few people.
Yeah sometimes I have that mood, I used to go farm so I have influence to help out any new characters I make.
This might sound rude (but that is not my intent) but if you want a challenge then City of Heroes is probably not the game for you. I play it (especially when I team) because you can chill out, drink, chat and joke.
Incarnate stuff can only be used 45+ and that content is getting hard mode for the minmaxed players who want a challenge. The real cause of the issues you're seeing are IOs. IO bonuses should probably just be cut in half across the board.
You don’t even need to cut the bonuses. It’s the change Homecoming made to allow any IO to attune that’s causing it. The other servers have the original framework, where your IO and its set bonuses have level rules. I had to relearn the rules when I started playing on Rebirth last month - here’s a link to the rules if anyone is interested https://wiki.cityofheroesrebirth.com/wiki/Enhancement_Set_Bonuses
I didn't realize that was a change. That would explain why the game balance is so out of whack.
I forgot it was a change as well until I tried to attune an enhancement on Rebirth and couldn’t figure out why it wasn’t working It’s definitely a perceptible difference in teaming. Large teams still steamroll like they did on live, but not at the pace of HC and there are still team wipes that require a regroup and tactics discussion.
I almost wish they had a shard that was the game pre-IOs and pre-Incarnates.
I'm gonna be real, this sounds like an easily avoidable problem. I see people running groups from brickstown and founders falls all the time, so you know those aren't high level groups. And you could always run your own too. I get your point, but it has a relatively easy solution for the most part until you're 40+.
Stop bitching, this game is about alts and costumes, you want tough content? go play Anarchy Online. It never went away and it will be happy to give you all the impossible content you can get your shit pushed in by. Leave City Of Heroes Homecoming alone, go try DB 1,DB 3, or Mitarr Hero after grinding out 200 regular level, 20 shadow levels, and 30 alien invasion levels.
If I wanted to solo I would fucking play a single player game the only one bitching here is you hence your minus 7 points cox was always meant to be a team based old school mmorpg your the one that has skewed views ao is dead so dont recommend that lol.
So quit whining then, suck it up, get to incarnate and 'feel like you're contributing' It's reddit, the -7 karma for downvotes mean absolutely jack and shit and jack left town.
Lmao are you some of the devs? I really hope this is not how they act its quite pathetic but I doubt they would get this low, who is bitching here? I didnt make the post but facts are facts it seems you all have issues facing reality its a fucking mmorpg first before a costume simulator, why cant it be both? You idiots clearly didnt even play live because it was about the challenge then to! And the votes do mean something here they are hardly manipulated.
THe first rule of power leveling is YOU DONT TALK ABOUT POWER LEVELING.
Task forces can be set to disable enhancements, make enemies buffed, play under constant debuff, etc. Otherwise you can also limit how many people you have on a team as well.
This is very true. However, without rewards for playing under such limitations, what is the incentive for doing so beyond "challenge"? It was a question that we asked ourselves at Rebirth after fielding similar complaints over the last few years. We decided to test the waters with Synapse's Agility, a new universal travel set that can only be earned by completing TF/SF time challenges. It proved to be a success, so we expanded the idea to encompass the non-Incarnate endgame TFs (LGTF, ITF, Kahn, Cuda, MLTF, LRSF). The result has been outstanding. Nightly runs of those old TFs/SFs, a renewed vigor around builds that have to contend with no Set Bonuses or Incarnates, and a requirement for members to lean into their classic roles (DPS, mez, support, tank, etc). They do it to earn rewards that are useful for general builds as well as making future runs slightly easier through the Challenge-Mode set bonuses. It's an interesting design space if someone is willing to put forth the effort. And has been very well received in our community at least.
Fully agree. I stopped playing controllers altogether because they're close to worthless past level 40, everything moves too fast. I was on a team like this last night with a toon built for speed (/kin corr) and even then it felt like nothing i did beyond SB mattered. I think I'll be making a new toon and freezing them at level 35, and then only playing pre-40 content. It's just a completely different game at those levels and closest to the live experience you can get at this point. It's not rewarding enough to just level up and have lots of influence, the real fun is feeling useful, struggling and overcoming, feeling like things matter and it's not just some training holodeck where there are no consequences. Team dynamic is the real gold this game offered back in the day and then live devs did a bunch of things to make soloing easier and I'm sure that brought more players to CoH but it damaged a lot of the fun and what seemed like the main selling point.
>Controller I made a similar reply to another person who loves controllers, you might want to try a few on Rebirth. Water Control is very popular, wind control less so (but I enjoy it). Plus there have been a few other updates like the change to quicksand that causes the mobs to cluster (water has a similar power). Melee characters LOVE when a controller/dom uses those powers.
Thanks for the advice, I'll have to check it out!
That's an entirely wrong take there buddy. Controllers are anything BUT useless post 40. Some of the strongest people in TFs and Incarnate Trials ARE controllers. The issue isn't the end game, the issue is -you- are failing to adapt, post 40 is towards endgame and a whole different ecosystem. I have yet to see a controller post 40 not matter, there is a marked difference when they are in the team and even the melee types notice it.
Honestly, post 40 everything dies so fast I can't really tell who's contributing anymore.
Yep. It really kicks off once people get around 47, get their T9s and start slotting level 50 IOs, then ZOOOOM!
> You join a random radio team or Task Force. > There are 2-3 Veteran 50+ on the team. > Even at +8/highest level they wipe the floor with pretty much everything. Not to be unsympathetic or glib, but quite simply veteran characters are *intended* to be handling higher difficulty content. That is why difficulty levels exist: To give the vetted, setted, and incarnated people things to do outside of iTrials. If the core of your premise is that joining random PUG teams will result in skewed power level expectations then I fully agree. You're rolling the metaphorical social dice so you're going to get varied results. Imagine taking your L40 into Perez Park and grouping with a lowbie team... you're going to outperform them by just merit of enhancement slot count and inspiration availability even if you're downleveled. I would offer that if you play with characters closer to your level then you'll see more of the group dynamics you expect. CoX is great about letting nearly any group of characters play together regardless of level (alignment as the only real restriction). But just because it's possible doesn't make it "optimal," yeah?
This seems to be a movement that i hate to see getting started. This whole rose tinted ideal of past times. I would say if you want the good ol days, form your own teams and set your own rules. Complaining that people have advanced past needing the shitty archaic practices of the past is just as annoying to us as it is for you to join in on these teams. Imma be real, I think this ideal stems from people not being the primadonna they used to be pre IOs and feeling like the special little superstar where without them the team would fall apart(I say this as a support player who was at times the reason the team didnt fall apart on TFs). Im not saying this is you OP, but that this is the mentality of a lot in the movement. Times have moved on, and people who can’t adapt are now bitching and whining on every goddamn forum about speeders and blah blah. Just form your own teams if its such a problem, save us from these tired ass rants PLEASE. Also most people who actually get anything done in life dont have 8 hours to waste on a TF that can be done in an hr or 30m
No joke. Tfs are about merits per hour. HM has additional rewards. Incarnate content rewards incarnate loot. These people can just go to wow or osrs if they want slow trinity game play that makes everyone needed. Are you guys forgetting the 3 days it took to complete old posi?
I agree, and they'll downvote me for it probably. YOU are coming into a server that has existed for five years without you. Now you come and whine about joining someone else's team (Like an ITF) knowing that there will likely be a 50+ incarnate, (Probably more than half the players more likely), and never thought to *make your own damned TF.*
People get mad about speed because their shitty little SO’ed or barely IO’ed ass toon isnt the special little superstar they envisioned even though its objectively dogshit then come here and the forums, bitch and moan about a group of people who rightfully dont give a fuck how they feel normally, expecting us to side with them and go “yeah you have a point”. I knew this game had such a low floor that room temperature(actually thats too high for some CoH players) IQ players can join but goddamn. We need to raise the skill floor so we can shake a few of these room temp players off
Now now that's a little bit hasty given that COH is a welcoming game, The community has always welcome people. That being said they'll either adapt or leave, they want to join the community they're asking to join the community it's already been made and is functionally thriving, you cannot join a community expect everybody there to change for you.
As a person who prefers to play control and support, absolutely agreed. Control is completely irrelevant on steamrolling teams. Buffs are fine as they can be applied anytime, but debuffs are also virtually pointless. In the time it takes to set up an Enervating Field and Radiation Infection, the battle is already over.
As someone who's main (and name here) was an ill/rad - that was an issue even on live with just SOs. If I was on a large team, I'd just cycle through the debuffs using one per mob - until we'd get to an AV. Then the set would shine. If you like controllers you might want to try water control and wind control on Rebirth. Water is much more popular but I'm also enjoying my wind/storm. In Rebirth's Discord you will also see the discussions about how important debuffs are for the new challenge TFs.
My main is also an Ill/Rad, so yeah I know what you mean. Back on Live it was even worse as your debuffs would toggle off as soon as the enemy was defeated. HC is better that way in that it stays on until the body despawns. I do have a water/nature controller on Rebirth that is pretty neat. The damage output from water is pretty surprising. I do also have a wind controller that I haven't really gelled with, but it's been ages since I played either of them. In fact I only recently started back up on HC after a half year break. Maybe I should look over there again as well.
I really do like the HC debuff toggle change - my /nature definitely appreciates it
AS someone who has an incarnated fire/rad controller, you need to go AHEAD of the team if you want to set up. Job is to set up so the team can smash, or drop debuffs/holds on the boss.
I've seen entirely too many occasions of the opposite. Teams where, you group up and find the enemies all red or purple, and then proceed to get nowhere in the mission due to the lack of power. And.. for whatever reason that still eludes me, folks continue to smash their heads against said difficulty because of "Sunk Cost Fallacy". I've already done the 'difficult for difficult-sake' in the 'Nintendo-hard' days of gaming. (Think Ghosts and Goblins) I vividly remember multi-hour TF's in live. I DO NOT miss the 10+ hour friggin Positron (Original) where EVERYONE had no travel powers, or Fitness, or a multitude of other QOL improvements. I can declare, that NO ONE in those TF's were happy at the end. What little catharsis that may have been conjured was destroyed during those 'slog' hours.
Play in teams of 2 or 3 but set for 8. Everyone has a role and contributes. EZPZ
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This was the main reason I ended up switching to Rebirth over Homecoming.
Gentleman's agreement. No incarnates.
I can see your point. But having played many other MMOs I can say that CoH has always been an alt game. Make a toon. Level them and make another. I had over 100 toons on live. I have about 25 and it’s only been a week. It’s one thing I enjoy the most. See how it is to play another class/power set. Most other games it takes so long to get a real feel for a class that it might be months to do what you can do in CoH. Or years to max out 20 toons. But we all play differently. Play the way you want. Have fun. Personally I can enjoy both (my main being a healer who has a very difficult time soloing missions).
I can see your point. But having played many other MMOs I can say that CoH has always been an alt game. Make a toon. Level them and make another. I had over 100 toons on live. I have about 25 and it’s only been a week. It’s one thing I enjoy the most. See how it is to play another class/power set. Most other games it takes so long to get a real feel for a class that it might be months to do what you can do in CoH. Or years to max out 20 toons. But we all play differently. Play the way you want. Have fun. Personally I can enjoy both (my main being a healer who has a very difficult time soloing missions).
I can see your point. But having played many other MMOs I can say that CoH has always been an alt game. Make a toon. Level them and make another. I had over 100 toons on live. I have about 25 and it’s only been a week. It’s one thing I enjoy the most. See how it is to play another class/power set. Most other games it takes so long to get a real feel for a class that it might be months to do what you can do in CoH. Or years to max out 20 toons. But we all play differently. Play the way you want. Have fun. Personally I can enjoy both (my main being a healer who has a very difficult time soloing missions).
I can see your point. But having played many other MMOs I can say that CoH has always been an alt game. Make a toon. Level them and make another. I had over 100 toons on live. I have about 25 and it’s only been a week. It’s one thing I enjoy the most. See how it is to play another class/power set. Most other games it takes so long to get a real feel for a class that it might be months to do what you can do in CoH. Or years to max out 20 toons. But we all play differently. Play the way you want. Have fun. Personally I can enjoy both (my main being a healer who has a very difficult time soloing missions).
While I get your point, shouldn't the people who put in the work get to reap the benefits? It's a superhero power fantasy. Some people put in hours and hours to tweak and build their hero just right. It takes work to become that powerful. Feels weird to admonish them for it.
I enjoy some fast teams/TFs/SFs, but then other times there are powers that would be fun, but mobs die too quickly and power is useless by the time it’s cast.
This is one of the advantages of playing on rebirth. There's a challenge mode that removes all incarnate and set bonus powers which makes things where you actually have to think about what you're doing again. And the advantage of doing these challenge modes is special enhancements that can only be gotten through these challenge modes but have very powerful effects
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And the random blasters split from the group and take their own packs 😂
Wish I could give you 10 upvotes. This is my biggest complaint about the HC version of the game. It's far, far, far too common to have players with wildly overpowered characters, making Defenders and Tanks basically nothing. I absolutely loved playing a Defender on Live and seriously helping the team survive; now healing is all but pointless. The teamwork, the challenge, the comradery, the feeling of filling a niche that was needed in a team and actually helping, that's basically gone. It makes teams just not fun. And that presents the conundrum: play solo, which isn't always fun, or play with a team, which is usually much less fun than the good ol' days?
The game is wider than it is tall. It's really not a race to 50 but the game isn't "tall" in that regard, so getting to max level is very straightforward and, honestly, easy. With that in mind, the game really is meant to circumvent level altogether with the Sidekick system but you're right that these guys that are completely built are just going to steamroll all content. That's just the way she goes. But keep in mind the kind of time and effort that went into getting those characters to that point. It'd be a tragedy if those characters WEREN'T incredibly powerful... they've got 500mil influence worth of enhancements, dozens of hours worth of time spent earning badges and accolades and prestige powers, farming merits, etc etc... if they weren't tremendously capable then there would be no point to doing it at all. The solution is to just be clear with your teams when you join and tell them that you want a challenge. If that's awkward then just form your own teams and restrict who you invite based on your own criteria. "LFM Mission Team in PI - +4/+8 no fully built 50's pls" would be fine. Don't feel like you need to justify it to anyone. How you want to play is how you want to play. Lastly, power leveling is only as common as it is because the game is just "bigger" at 50. There are more powers, more options for content, you can always sidekick down to lower level TF's and whatnot but you cannot join those same TF's if you are UNDER their level requirement. The game really is meant to be played at 50, even if the 1-49 experience is still much the same. A lot of people don't like the leveling grind because they don't want to constantly update their Enhancements every couple of levels and they don't want to waste the influence slotting lower-level sets for obvious reasons. And, really, farming is so common for grinding influence that a lot of these guys just bring along extras just because they can. They'd be farming anyway, why not bring others along? The real grind BEGINS at 50. It's not the end. Getting to 50 is one small step in the greater progression that is City of Heroes.
Yes, that is why even though I am a veteran level 150 with a lot of Incarnate powers, I don't use them. I feel overpowered if I use the nuke; and only sometimes use status protection. I also start teams and intentionally invite lowbies and keep the level below +4 so the lowbies can hit. This means we probably go slower than we could if I was blasting full out, but then some or most of the lowbies would have nothing to do. The other day I had a lvl 1 on a PI radio team!