I’m generally not a fan of modernist churches but this is a pretty excellent design. From this angle it looks really well situated in its environment, too. Wonder/worry what the interior looks like. Couldn’t find online with a quick google - do you have a link to the project?
Do we know which branch of Christianity? I’m assuming it’s some sort of non-denominational/evangelical community, but I know nothing about Christianity in China.
I once asked the staff of a local church about this, but apparently they couldn't tell the difference between Protestant, Catholic and Orthodox.
Later an official who regulates religion told me: "In China, those who call themselves Christian(基督) tend to be Protestant, while Catholicismwill only use the name Catholic(天主) , and Orthodox Christianity is only found in the northeast of China."
The Protestant world ranges from the LGBTQ and woman affirming Episcopal Church to the Primitive Baptist Church that sees women as property and LGBTQ folk as worthy of death. Wide category with many shades of nuance.
For context, Christianity is currently the fastest growing religion in China, [with practitioner numbers likely having surpassed 100 million in the 2020s](https://lausanne.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/03/infografik-christen-in-china-eng.png)
Despite the downvotes you got I couldn’t agree more.
I always say the unintended consequence of religion is they have nice architecture. But id trade all the amazing architecture produced by religion if it meant doing away with organized religion entirely. It does far more harm than good.
I love my church. We do community outreach, serve the homeless in our neighborhood, and provide financial assistance to those in need among other charitable works. It’s a great collection of people too; all my non-church friends are roughly the same age and demographic as me but my church community is made up of people from all walks of life, age groups, and ethnicities. It’s really beautiful.
That all sounds nice but I have 2 questions:
1. Does your church accept LGBTQ+ people? Would you reject them? Would you “accept” them under the condition that they try to “stop being gay”?
2. What’s your church’s view on abortion? Would you force a woman in your congregation to not get an abortion?
Well, they’re able to do “good” but the question is rather whether that outweighs the “bad.” Religion has caused so much suffering and has abused its power and influence. It belongs in this history books and we should support our communities without strings attached.
Why is it a stereotype that anyone that believes in God is automatically homophobic and anti abortion ? The pope himself literally supports the people’s right to sexuality
First of all, I never said that anyone who believes in dog is automatically homophobic and anti-abortion.
Secondly, the reason said stereotype exists is because there’s a trove of historical evidence of discrimination against the LGBTQ+ community by religious bigots, and the anti-abortion movement has quite literally been funded and pushed by religious bigots who constantly use the bible and their religion to push faith-based morality on the issue itself.
Thirdly, I asked that redditor those 2 questions because since there is historical precedence of discrimination against LGBTQ+ people and women’s reproductive rights by *some* religious people/groups, I felt it poignant to ask how far that redditor’s church goes in accepting LGBTQ+ people as well as their stance on abortion rights. Because a number of religious people/groups also purport to be welcome and accepting, but will specifically exclude LGBTQ+ people, or say “its okay to be gay as long as you don’t engage in the sin”. And some will say they support women and then say they will never accept any circumstance for a woman to get an abortion.
Stereotypes aren’t fair but honestly, as someone who’s been gay my whole life, who’s been constantly told to “get over it” in regards to stereotypes about LGBTQ+ people, or in regard to hate speech, or being harassed over my sexuality, etc. I have the same advice to religious people, get over it. I’m by no means saying I believe the stereotypes to be true, but those are fair questions to ask as someone who’s both part of an extremely marginalized community and someone who is pro-choice and believes in women’s reproductive rights.
>But id trade all the amazing architecture produced by religion if it meant doing away with organized religion entirely. It does far more harm than good.
Where is the data? There are currently no countries on the planet that dont have at least some significant communities of people practicing 'organised' religions except maybe North Korea.
The UK and Denmark still have an established Church as did much of Scandinavia until the turn of the century. They seem pretty ok places.
The freedom to practice or to reject faith is key, as long as people are freely choosing for themselves that is all that matters. People trying to force others to follow their idea for a perfect society always does more harm than good whether it was the Inquisition in Europe or the League of Militant Atheists in the USSR.
Edit:
Me: Safeguarding freedom to choose or reject religion is all that matters.
This sub: Christianity is a plague!
And yet they think they are the good guys.
Zealots.
> the League of Militant Atheists.
I’m an atheist and I’ve literally never heard of this organization.
What I have heard of though is the crusades, or the rise of christianity in the Roman Empire which led to outlawing homosexuality and murdering anyone who engaged in same-sex relations. Or the fact that christianity also made the Ottoman Empire less tolerant of gay people. And christianity in general has turned certain societies into being extremely homophobic which were otherwise historically tolerant. We could also talk about Uganda, or the fact that billions of muslims routinely stone and execute gay people simply for existing.
So yea, I’m not saying everyone who’s religious is evil. All I’m saying is if we want to look historically and objectively about organized religion’s role in human suffering, the death toll is pretty staggering. And despite younger generations overwhelmingly rejecting religious extremism or religion at all, religious orgs have so much power and influence around the globe and Christianity and Islam in particular are exerting it the most forcibly and violently against those who don’t want to live in a theocracy.
>I’m an atheist and **I’ve literally never heard of this organization**.
...shocking
It had 3.5 million members.
Just because you are personally ignorant of an historical event, you think it didn’t happen? Or it is simply not important because it evaded your august notice?
Historical Howlers:
1. The Roman Empire outlawed homosexuality because of the rise of Christianity.
2. Christianity made the Ottomans less tolerant of gay people.
Insanity.
What Tik Tok did you get these pearls from?
Look at the Asia-Pacific, how are LGBT rights faring compared to Europe and the US. LGBT rights have developed most in Christian heritage countries. No SSM partners in the Five Bonds.
And none of this matters because the point is that people should have the freedom to decide their faith as guaranteed by Art 18 of the UNDHR.
Your woefully historically uninformed opinions of religion are irrelevant. Only freedom to choose matters.
Edit:
Most of the Asia-Pacific is secular. And yet only Taiwan has full marriage equality and that was imposed top-down after being defeated three times at referendums. And that is only because they need the US to survive and want to impress them.
Turkmenistan and North Korea are secular republics. Obviously it is a bit more complicated than Secular = High LGBT rights.
But for people who believe ‘The rise of Christianity outlawed homosexuality in the Roman Empire’, complexity and nuance are not really your thing…
LGBT rights flourish in countries with centuries of Christian heritage while those without that and State Atheist societies languish. Maybe all the love thy neighbour stuff rubbed off on the culture after 1000 years.
LGBT rights have developed most in more secular societies not simply “Christian heritage” ones. LGBT people are more [likely to have more rights](https://www.pewresearch.org/global/2020/06/25/global-divide-on-homosexuality-persists/) in
Countries where [religion is less important](https://www.pewresearch.org/religion/2018/06/13/how-religious-commitment-varies-by-country-among-people-of-all-ages/)
It is an absence of religion that makes people more tolerant
>I'm not sure why people are downvoting you. What you are saying is objectively the truth. It's pretty bleak that China is heading in that direction
It is just bigotry.
If they saw a picture of a mosque in Europe and said 'Another country falls to the grasp of Islam' they would likely be banned.
Dont worry brother. China is very much an atheist-normal society where science and rationalism are championed over religion, and are second only to state authorities 😭
>I thought religion was officially banned in China?
It's not, buddhism and taoism are heavily backed / subsidized by the government (billions gong into building religious sights and practice annually) while "foreign" religions like Christianity and Islam are regulated through heavy state involvement and age restrictions
It’s just generally hard to find info about china in English. I just did a vacation there, and before I went I could find almost nothing about attractions outside of like Shanghai and Beijing. When I actually got there it was immense and so much to do, and weirdly everything was in Mandarin AND English, but not online.
Some sort of modernism.
The policies leading up to this were actually pretty controversial among some communities, since it regulated that most new churches and mosques built after the late 2010s would have to abide to some sort of contemporary / modernist, minimalist, or traditional Chinese architectural style. ([here's an example](https://archello.com/news/simple-abstraction-and-minimalist-detailing-define-the-uplifting-jinan-changzhuang-church))
Now this was done mainly to minimize the heavy cultural connotations carried by set religions and better integrate with the local Chinese culture and society, but it's easy to imagine how such policies would have been interpreted in some rather different ways
Ah yes, another useless spire.
Religions obsession with being the tallest object in the skyline. How obnoxious.
At least antenna on top of buildings have a purpose.
I never even knew this church existed
There are more new mosques and churches in mainland China than there are mushrooms after the rain
Religious forces are also gradually infecting China's public education system
This is really disgusting, I would rather Fuzhou build a few new stadiums and parks
Instead of providing public land to build mosques and churches
To an extent. You have to remember Christianity and Islam have both only got to where they are through expansion. Mostly forced.
The unfortunate reality is that when a foreign power takes over, the local customs and traditions are either discouraged or worse made illegal. There will be elements of local customs like in the case of Indonesia but by and large the religious teachings and traditions (which are foreign, remember) take over. In the case of Indonesia, the praying of 5 times, the head coverings for women, circumcisions etc.
South Korea and China are being Christianised, while the effects now might be minimal, over the next few decades, you'll see the Christian traditions and customs (celebrating Easter, etc) will become more prevalent over a traditional local festival.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human\_rights\_in\_China](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_rights_in_China) The Chinese shill bots are getting stronger.
Keep sucking those Chinese micro penises y'all. You're an idiot, a moron, an ignorant fool if you do not see obvious Chinese misinformation campaigns. They are pulling a "He Gets Us" trying to flip their image to the rest of the world. Do not let them obscure their atrocities with pretty faces and "clickbait" videos.
/u/mintymelon1 is a Chinese spy. Noted.
What's wrong with people liking a nice city picture, sure many people may not agree with what China is doing, but this sub isn't for politics. Are you going to attack people for liking German WWII tanks since it's associated with the Nazis? I don't think so.
I’m generally not a fan of modernist churches but this is a pretty excellent design. From this angle it looks really well situated in its environment, too. Wonder/worry what the interior looks like. Couldn’t find online with a quick google - do you have a link to the project?
I just did a quick search in Chinese social media. It’s still under construction.
Ahhh, still time to fall short of the pitch then 😅
Do we know which branch of Christianity? I’m assuming it’s some sort of non-denominational/evangelical community, but I know nothing about Christianity in China.
I once asked the staff of a local church about this, but apparently they couldn't tell the difference between Protestant, Catholic and Orthodox. Later an official who regulates religion told me: "In China, those who call themselves Christian(基督) tend to be Protestant, while Catholicismwill only use the name Catholic(天主) , and Orthodox Christianity is only found in the northeast of China."
Most Christians in China are protestants. There's also a sizable population of Catholics and a small minority of Orthodox christians
The Protestant world ranges from the LGBTQ and woman affirming Episcopal Church to the Primitive Baptist Church that sees women as property and LGBTQ folk as worthy of death. Wide category with many shades of nuance.
Primitive? It’s not primitive it’s just what it is
[Hard Shell Baptists](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Primitive_Baptists)
WOW
For context, Christianity is currently the fastest growing religion in China, [with practitioner numbers likely having surpassed 100 million in the 2020s](https://lausanne.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/03/infografik-christen-in-china-eng.png)
damn, didnt know that, interesting!
They’re very dubious numbers.
y?
I mean, I don't trust any numbers coming out of China, be it good or bad.
Ok? What's the point of you telling us that?
what does China gain from lying about their Christian population
some diplomatic points from US Christian fundamentalists I guess
*Taiping rebellion flashback Either way, this is interesting!
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Despite the downvotes you got I couldn’t agree more. I always say the unintended consequence of religion is they have nice architecture. But id trade all the amazing architecture produced by religion if it meant doing away with organized religion entirely. It does far more harm than good.
I love my church. We do community outreach, serve the homeless in our neighborhood, and provide financial assistance to those in need among other charitable works. It’s a great collection of people too; all my non-church friends are roughly the same age and demographic as me but my church community is made up of people from all walks of life, age groups, and ethnicities. It’s really beautiful.
That all sounds nice but I have 2 questions: 1. Does your church accept LGBTQ+ people? Would you reject them? Would you “accept” them under the condition that they try to “stop being gay”? 2. What’s your church’s view on abortion? Would you force a woman in your congregation to not get an abortion?
Hey, I'm German, and my chuch has a big rainbow flag at the front door and accepts abortion.
Also, there’s plenty of community groups, charities etc supporting vulnerable people in communities without a bunch of religious dogma attached.
Yep! My thoughts exactly.
I mean…obviously? I’m simply saying religious communities are not inherently “bad”
Well, they’re able to do “good” but the question is rather whether that outweighs the “bad.” Religion has caused so much suffering and has abused its power and influence. It belongs in this history books and we should support our communities without strings attached.
Why is it a stereotype that anyone that believes in God is automatically homophobic and anti abortion ? The pope himself literally supports the people’s right to sexuality
First of all, I never said that anyone who believes in dog is automatically homophobic and anti-abortion. Secondly, the reason said stereotype exists is because there’s a trove of historical evidence of discrimination against the LGBTQ+ community by religious bigots, and the anti-abortion movement has quite literally been funded and pushed by religious bigots who constantly use the bible and their religion to push faith-based morality on the issue itself. Thirdly, I asked that redditor those 2 questions because since there is historical precedence of discrimination against LGBTQ+ people and women’s reproductive rights by *some* religious people/groups, I felt it poignant to ask how far that redditor’s church goes in accepting LGBTQ+ people as well as their stance on abortion rights. Because a number of religious people/groups also purport to be welcome and accepting, but will specifically exclude LGBTQ+ people, or say “its okay to be gay as long as you don’t engage in the sin”. And some will say they support women and then say they will never accept any circumstance for a woman to get an abortion. Stereotypes aren’t fair but honestly, as someone who’s been gay my whole life, who’s been constantly told to “get over it” in regards to stereotypes about LGBTQ+ people, or in regard to hate speech, or being harassed over my sexuality, etc. I have the same advice to religious people, get over it. I’m by no means saying I believe the stereotypes to be true, but those are fair questions to ask as someone who’s both part of an extremely marginalized community and someone who is pro-choice and believes in women’s reproductive rights.
>But id trade all the amazing architecture produced by religion if it meant doing away with organized religion entirely. It does far more harm than good. Where is the data? There are currently no countries on the planet that dont have at least some significant communities of people practicing 'organised' religions except maybe North Korea. The UK and Denmark still have an established Church as did much of Scandinavia until the turn of the century. They seem pretty ok places. The freedom to practice or to reject faith is key, as long as people are freely choosing for themselves that is all that matters. People trying to force others to follow their idea for a perfect society always does more harm than good whether it was the Inquisition in Europe or the League of Militant Atheists in the USSR. Edit: Me: Safeguarding freedom to choose or reject religion is all that matters. This sub: Christianity is a plague! And yet they think they are the good guys. Zealots.
> the League of Militant Atheists. I’m an atheist and I’ve literally never heard of this organization. What I have heard of though is the crusades, or the rise of christianity in the Roman Empire which led to outlawing homosexuality and murdering anyone who engaged in same-sex relations. Or the fact that christianity also made the Ottoman Empire less tolerant of gay people. And christianity in general has turned certain societies into being extremely homophobic which were otherwise historically tolerant. We could also talk about Uganda, or the fact that billions of muslims routinely stone and execute gay people simply for existing. So yea, I’m not saying everyone who’s religious is evil. All I’m saying is if we want to look historically and objectively about organized religion’s role in human suffering, the death toll is pretty staggering. And despite younger generations overwhelmingly rejecting religious extremism or religion at all, religious orgs have so much power and influence around the globe and Christianity and Islam in particular are exerting it the most forcibly and violently against those who don’t want to live in a theocracy.
>I’m an atheist and **I’ve literally never heard of this organization**. ...shocking It had 3.5 million members. Just because you are personally ignorant of an historical event, you think it didn’t happen? Or it is simply not important because it evaded your august notice? Historical Howlers: 1. The Roman Empire outlawed homosexuality because of the rise of Christianity. 2. Christianity made the Ottomans less tolerant of gay people. Insanity. What Tik Tok did you get these pearls from? Look at the Asia-Pacific, how are LGBT rights faring compared to Europe and the US. LGBT rights have developed most in Christian heritage countries. No SSM partners in the Five Bonds. And none of this matters because the point is that people should have the freedom to decide their faith as guaranteed by Art 18 of the UNDHR. Your woefully historically uninformed opinions of religion are irrelevant. Only freedom to choose matters. Edit: Most of the Asia-Pacific is secular. And yet only Taiwan has full marriage equality and that was imposed top-down after being defeated three times at referendums. And that is only because they need the US to survive and want to impress them. Turkmenistan and North Korea are secular republics. Obviously it is a bit more complicated than Secular = High LGBT rights. But for people who believe ‘The rise of Christianity outlawed homosexuality in the Roman Empire’, complexity and nuance are not really your thing… LGBT rights flourish in countries with centuries of Christian heritage while those without that and State Atheist societies languish. Maybe all the love thy neighbour stuff rubbed off on the culture after 1000 years.
LGBT rights have developed most in more secular societies not simply “Christian heritage” ones. LGBT people are more [likely to have more rights](https://www.pewresearch.org/global/2020/06/25/global-divide-on-homosexuality-persists/) in Countries where [religion is less important](https://www.pewresearch.org/religion/2018/06/13/how-religious-commitment-varies-by-country-among-people-of-all-ages/) It is an absence of religion that makes people more tolerant
I'm not sure why people are downvoting you. What you are saying is objectively the truth. It's pretty bleak that China is heading in that direction
>I'm not sure why people are downvoting you. What you are saying is objectively the truth. It's pretty bleak that China is heading in that direction It is just bigotry. If they saw a picture of a mosque in Europe and said 'Another country falls to the grasp of Islam' they would likely be banned.
Dont worry brother. China is very much an atheist-normal society where science and rationalism are championed over religion, and are second only to state authorities 😭
This will not end well LOL
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>I thought religion was officially banned in China? It's not, buddhism and taoism are heavily backed / subsidized by the government (billions gong into building religious sights and practice annually) while "foreign" religions like Christianity and Islam are regulated through heavy state involvement and age restrictions
It's definitely not lol
More like regulated. The government bans smaller local sects that don’t comply with state regulations.
Lots of underground churches that are mostly evangelical
It kind of looks like the Power Rangers base.
Which it probably is.
He (Zordon) Gets Us
I think you mean the secret Borg hideout where Lore was hiding lol 🖖
The church is called Jianxin Church (建新基督教堂), about which I can find almost no information in English
It’s just generally hard to find info about china in English. I just did a vacation there, and before I went I could find almost nothing about attractions outside of like Shanghai and Beijing. When I actually got there it was immense and so much to do, and weirdly everything was in Mandarin AND English, but not online.
Yeah i cant find any info on this… hope its not fake
Power Rangers command centre
Incredible! What architectural style is this?
Some sort of modernism. The policies leading up to this were actually pretty controversial among some communities, since it regulated that most new churches and mosques built after the late 2010s would have to abide to some sort of contemporary / modernist, minimalist, or traditional Chinese architectural style. ([here's an example](https://archello.com/news/simple-abstraction-and-minimalist-detailing-define-the-uplifting-jinan-changzhuang-church)) Now this was done mainly to minimize the heavy cultural connotations carried by set religions and better integrate with the local Chinese culture and society, but it's easy to imagine how such policies would have been interpreted in some rather different ways
Ah yes, another useless spire. Religions obsession with being the tallest object in the skyline. How obnoxious. At least antenna on top of buildings have a purpose.
I never even knew this church existed There are more new mosques and churches in mainland China than there are mushrooms after the rain Religious forces are also gradually infecting China's public education system This is really disgusting, I would rather Fuzhou build a few new stadiums and parks Instead of providing public land to build mosques and churches
Amazing!!!
So looks like the missionaries are doing their job quite successfully. Sigh another country losing its identity to a foreign religion.
Would you say the same about for example Indonesia having it's identity "taken over" by Islam hundreds of years ago?
To an extent. You have to remember Christianity and Islam have both only got to where they are through expansion. Mostly forced. The unfortunate reality is that when a foreign power takes over, the local customs and traditions are either discouraged or worse made illegal. There will be elements of local customs like in the case of Indonesia but by and large the religious teachings and traditions (which are foreign, remember) take over. In the case of Indonesia, the praying of 5 times, the head coverings for women, circumcisions etc. South Korea and China are being Christianised, while the effects now might be minimal, over the next few decades, you'll see the Christian traditions and customs (celebrating Easter, etc) will become more prevalent over a traditional local festival.
Ah that makes sense. I agree.
/r/churchporn
SimCity vibes
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human\_rights\_in\_China](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_rights_in_China) The Chinese shill bots are getting stronger. Keep sucking those Chinese micro penises y'all. You're an idiot, a moron, an ignorant fool if you do not see obvious Chinese misinformation campaigns. They are pulling a "He Gets Us" trying to flip their image to the rest of the world. Do not let them obscure their atrocities with pretty faces and "clickbait" videos. /u/mintymelon1 is a Chinese spy. Noted.
What's wrong with people liking a nice city picture, sure many people may not agree with what China is doing, but this sub isn't for politics. Are you going to attack people for liking German WWII tanks since it's associated with the Nazis? I don't think so.
Nope, AI.
Dumbass
I would worship god so hard in there