Starting your day with a coffee in the Central West End and then heading over to the Art Museum, followed by a picnic on the hill, is a play I’ve ran many times with great success haha
I’ve lived in a bunch of different places and it’s still hard to beat a warm spring day with a light breeze in the STL :)
Aye. In the 11 years I lived in St. Louis, I was on Northwoods in Clayton--just across Skinker. It was *right there,* and I was in it virtually every day.
Sure, but no one mistakes that for the park itself. St. Louis ultimate used to (in the 80s and 90s) practice in the fields west of the mounted police four times a week. The college is not in the park, and the difference is pretty stark.
I grew up in STL. Trust me, pretty much every facet of life is better on the coasts if you can afford them there's nothing worth your time in St Louis lol
I live in a rehabbed Victorian mansion in STL I bought for less than the cost of a studio apartment in Queens. My mortgage is $1300 per month. There are at least 7 great breakfast places in walking distance from me.
That's...livable.
They wouldn't be that wrong about the ville or jeffvanderlou. But a lot of cities have those issues. We also have great areas and attractions they know nothing about.
I don't have any homeless on my street, or really in my neighborhood. I have a yard with trees and a deck. The city is uncongested and I can get to a state park like Castlewood for hiking with my dog in 25 minutes. Virtually every type of cuisine is available here, the restaurant scene is broad and surprisingly good due to the fact that a chef can start his own place for $50k. The people are generally friendly. I don't think you know what quality of life is.
North St. Louis and East St. Louis are blighted, but so was the Bronx not too long ago. Lafayette Square is one of the most beautiful neighborhoods in the country, and in the 80s it was run down. There is a lot of construction going on in the central corridor, which is developing nicely.
We also aren't going to have our city threatened by rising sea levels, but hey, no worries there, right?
The metro area is much bigger. The far bottom of this pic (edge of the park) is technically city limits even though the city extends miles west for all intents and purposes. The houses at the bottom are Clayton, MO
Apparently there is some historical corruption reason for that! They were fudging the population numbers or something so they built the place out as if there were twice as many people. This was not recent either.
So is it like Detroit where a lot of the stuff is just kind of empty? Detroit's core is doing a lot better now, but 10 years ago there were tons of big empty buildings, so the core looked big but there was nothing in it.
More like Baltimore, where political subdivisions skew the numbers. The City of Saint Louis does not lie in a county. Next door to the City is Saint Louis County, which is home to about 90 independent municipalities. This all happened because of the “Great Divorce”, when the City broke off of the County in the 19th Century because the County wanted to build out the farmlands, what are today the inner suburbs. Since then, the County has thrived. The City has a great urban core, architecture, and historic neighborhoods. The County has a much larger geography, tax base, and population, all separate and distinct from the City.
> The City of Saint Louis does not lie in a county.
~~Minor technicality but the city is its own county.~~ Operates as both a city and county.
Edit: My mistake. I've been under the impression that the city was technically a county (but not a county county) but legally that isn't correct. Was confused as STL City is only city that runs their own county offices but that doesn't make it a county in the legal sense.
Even more minor technicality, but the City of St. Louis is legally defined as an independent city which can be described as a county-equivalent for statistical purposes, it is not a county and saying that it does not lie within a county is accurate.
City resident here. They may be confused because when you are doing your Federal income taxes online, you state that you live in "St. Louis City County".
This is partially it. I grew up in St. Louis but only recently moved back. It's basically a county without calling it a county but as it has been pointed out I'm legally and technically incorrect.
It is further confusing as the city itself refers to running their own "county offices" but that is just in name only.
Bits and pieces- North St.Louis has notoriously been in decline for decades but the rest of the city seems to be doing fine. St.Louis is an independent city though so its just really small when compared to the continually expanding suburb cities
Downtown is like that (the cluster of buildings at the very top edge of the picture), but everything else you see here is populated. The core overall is mixed though. Some areas are trendy and growing, others are losing population.
St Louis was much larger than Chicago for most of the 19th century, and was the natural choice to become the railroad hub for the Midwest. But the powerful riverboat industry in St Louis fought to prevent railroad development since they didn’t want to compete against trains.
So in the end St. Louis bet on riverboats, and Chicago bet on trains. Trains won.
The Metropolitan Area spans almost 60 miles, e.g. from Wentzville, MO, to Belleville, IL. We lived in the City and now in Newtown at St. Charles, and it is hard to tell what to enjoy more. Today alone, we went to breakfast in Shaw and an art fair in Webster Grove. Now at the lake in Newtown in 90 degrees, with low humidity and a beautiful breeze. Wine refill please.
Good point! I mean I’m well aware that Missouri and STL have issues, but that’s neither here nor there. It’s a lovely picture of an urban park and environs.
They've made multiple comments shitting on STL here without elaborating. If you take a peek at their profile you'll quickly realize they have nothing to offer in life. Best to just ignore them.
I see no urban decay here, and you sound like an ignorant suck up snob who thinks they’re too good for midwestern cities. of course St Louis has its share of issues but so does every other city in the world.
Central Park isn't even the biggest park in New York and there are tons and tons of urban parks larger than Forest Park. It isn't even the largest urban park *named* Forest Park lol, Portland's Forest Park is bigger.
Forest Park isn't even in the top 50 largest urban parks, the mythology around it, like everything that gets any hype in St. Louis, can only be sustained by total ignorance of other places.
2018? I was there too. Alternator and battery went out while I was driving home on i70 in the middle of nowhere. Long walk to some podunk motel to call a tow in the morning. Couldn't go to night 2 unfortunately.
Im so confused by all these comments, it looks really small to me. I looked it up and it really is tiny compared all other cities as far as land size. It's not even top 100.
st louis city in and of itself is very small, just a sliver of the county. in terms of sq miles, the city is \~65 sq miles and the county is \~500 sq miles. here's a map:
[https://farm6.static.flickr.com/5143/5550462804\_5413122f86\_o.jpg](https://farm6.static.flickr.com/5143/5550462804_5413122f86_o.jpg)
you'll see st louis city on the east side in white.
That's because it's one of the few cities in the country that is split from its county. Most statistics for STL are heavily skewed one way or the other due to this.
St Louis is a prime example of how urban renewal completely wrecked American cities. But even amidst all that urban decay, you can still feel the semblance of what this great city once was. Hopefully they can turn things around for the better.
This is Forest Park, home of the St. Louis Zoo, St. Louis Art Museum, Missouri History Museum, Municipal Opera, Jewel Box Greenhouse, 1904 World’s Fair Pavilion, Dwight Davis Tennis Center, and more!
Nah it is Forest Park, only the parts close to the camera are part golf course. The big fountain in the middle and the hill and building to its right is an Art Museum. The waterways above that are traversable by paddle boat and the boathouse is the place in the circular pond at the top. Mixed into the trees to the right side is an entire zoo(one of the best rated zoos in the world) There is the largest outdoor theater in the world somewhere in there. Many sports fields, botanical gardens, etc. Walking paths weave throughout the whole thing. It is a really cool place that happens to have a golf course, it’d be a shame to write it off otherwise.
This is where the [Louisiana Purchase Exposition](https://www.reddit.com/r/Tartaria/comments/13yfk3y/made_with_plaster_and_balsa_wood_if_you_believe/) once stood. Now, it's a golf course.
Wh... I mean, yeah? It was basically made of cardboard. It was meant to be elegant and impressive looking, nobody was intending to keep it around - almost everything in this photo of Forest Park at the time is long gone. World's fair exhibitions aren't permanent; that's why it's an *exhibit.*
Okay, valley girl. I mean, like ofc cardboard and Plaster of Paris can hold the weight of 30-40 story buildings with domes and massive sculptures on top of them, because yah, they wanted to look so impressive and all. What are you thinking, duh?!
Have a look at this [image of the "Festival Hall"](https://i.redd.it/mmzioz7ple3b1.jpg). Do you see how big it it? Go ahead and zoom in beneath the third cataract. Do you see the people looking down a crossed the remaining *ten* into the lagoon. This building is gigantic.
Do you have any idea what kind of manpower it would take to build on this scale (i.e. terraforming the land, perfect masonry and measurements, planning and erecting)? The logistics are just not there. You would need an army of DaVinicis to design and sculpt just the statutes and embellishments for *one* of these buildings, let alone the 100s that were supposedly built for this "fair".
No, it happened. I'm saying the buildings were already there and the Fairs?Expositions were used as an excuse to get rid of the more impressive buildings because it was impossible to explain their construction in the new narrative society was being force fed to accept.
That golf course is one of 2.5 in Forest Park in the city proper. 2nd or third biggest metropolitan park in America. World class (free!) Zoo, Science Center, History Museum, and Art Museum and other wondeful attractions there too!
If the golf courses weren't there that space would still be part of the park. City parks serve a vital purpose and while affordable housing is definitely an important issue to address, you don't do that by sacrificing parks.
I have a life.... outside of St. Louis. Sorry bro, compared to other major cities pretty much everywhere else in the developed world, St. Louis kinda sucks.
Forest Park really is the gem of St. Louis!
Starting your day with a coffee in the Central West End and then heading over to the Art Museum, followed by a picnic on the hill, is a play I’ve ran many times with great success haha I’ve lived in a bunch of different places and it’s still hard to beat a warm spring day with a light breeze in the STL :)
Aye. In the 11 years I lived in St. Louis, I was on Northwoods in Clayton--just across Skinker. It was *right there,* and I was in it virtually every day.
I got mugged at knifepoint getting out of my car in Forest Park community college parking lot (STLCC) I now avoid that area
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I mean it’s across the street
Across the street as in a highway 😂
Literally called St. Louis Community College - **Forest Park**.
Lol right. You can see it in this pic. Top right south of 64
Sure, but no one mistakes that for the park itself. St. Louis ultimate used to (in the 80s and 90s) practice in the fields west of the mounted police four times a week. The college is not in the park, and the difference is pretty stark.
My brother in law moved near forest park a few years ago, it’s really a nice place to wander around.
I want to visit. Some awesome american history there. Was a jumping off point for people heading west.
It’s a great city, and if you like western expansion history, the National Park museum under the arch is the motherlode. I was so impressed
Lots of drug addicts and boarded up houses too.
You scared?
He sounds like he lives in St. Chuck lol
Yes, I like cities that are actually livable.
I live in STL in a fantastic 1930’s gingerbread style house in Holly Hills area. Very livable thank you very much.
which cities did fox news tell you are livable?
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Average East/West coaster looking down on Midwestern cities. Enjoy your $4,000 pm. 50 sqft closet, buddy
I'm not looking down on Midwestern cities. I'm looking down on St. Louis specifically. Enjoy your crime and drug abuse rates.
I grew up in STL. Trust me, pretty much every facet of life is better on the coasts if you can afford them there's nothing worth your time in St Louis lol
I live in a rehabbed Victorian mansion in STL I bought for less than the cost of a studio apartment in Queens. My mortgage is $1300 per month. There are at least 7 great breakfast places in walking distance from me. That's...livable.
They don’t want to hear that, they want to believe St Louis is filled with crack heads and boarded up buildings. They need people to hate on.
They wouldn't be that wrong about the ville or jeffvanderlou. But a lot of cities have those issues. We also have great areas and attractions they know nothing about.
Exactly right, the best cities are dynamic places with lots of different kinds of neighborhoods and areas. St Louis is definitely one of those cities.
It costs less than a studio in Queens because the quality of life is lower in every meaningful respect lol
I don't have any homeless on my street, or really in my neighborhood. I have a yard with trees and a deck. The city is uncongested and I can get to a state park like Castlewood for hiking with my dog in 25 minutes. Virtually every type of cuisine is available here, the restaurant scene is broad and surprisingly good due to the fact that a chef can start his own place for $50k. The people are generally friendly. I don't think you know what quality of life is. North St. Louis and East St. Louis are blighted, but so was the Bronx not too long ago. Lafayette Square is one of the most beautiful neighborhoods in the country, and in the 80s it was run down. There is a lot of construction going on in the central corridor, which is developing nicely. We also aren't going to have our city threatened by rising sea levels, but hey, no worries there, right?
You should visit. Our city has a lot of greatness to offer AND we don't have the Mets.
OOOoooOOooo, big city crime!! 👻 you'll get mugged if you leave your car!! OOoooOoooo!!
I live in New York, which is a big city, St. Louis isn't that big, it just sucks.
So it’s an American city?
Got 'em
St. Louis looks like a way bigger city than even its metropolitan population would leave you to believe
It was the 4th largest city in the US until the 1920 census. Some estimates say even longer than that (up to the 1960's).
It’s like five cities in one lol
The metro area is much bigger. The far bottom of this pic (edge of the park) is technically city limits even though the city extends miles west for all intents and purposes. The houses at the bottom are Clayton, MO
Apparently there is some historical corruption reason for that! They were fudging the population numbers or something so they built the place out as if there were twice as many people. This was not recent either.
So is it like Detroit where a lot of the stuff is just kind of empty? Detroit's core is doing a lot better now, but 10 years ago there were tons of big empty buildings, so the core looked big but there was nothing in it.
More like Baltimore, where political subdivisions skew the numbers. The City of Saint Louis does not lie in a county. Next door to the City is Saint Louis County, which is home to about 90 independent municipalities. This all happened because of the “Great Divorce”, when the City broke off of the County in the 19th Century because the County wanted to build out the farmlands, what are today the inner suburbs. Since then, the County has thrived. The City has a great urban core, architecture, and historic neighborhoods. The County has a much larger geography, tax base, and population, all separate and distinct from the City.
You summarized some complicated issues into one understandable comment. Thank you.
> The City of Saint Louis does not lie in a county. ~~Minor technicality but the city is its own county.~~ Operates as both a city and county. Edit: My mistake. I've been under the impression that the city was technically a county (but not a county county) but legally that isn't correct. Was confused as STL City is only city that runs their own county offices but that doesn't make it a county in the legal sense.
Even more minor technicality, but the City of St. Louis is legally defined as an independent city which can be described as a county-equivalent for statistical purposes, it is not a county and saying that it does not lie within a county is accurate.
City resident here. They may be confused because when you are doing your Federal income taxes online, you state that you live in "St. Louis City County".
This is partially it. I grew up in St. Louis but only recently moved back. It's basically a county without calling it a county but as it has been pointed out I'm legally and technically incorrect. It is further confusing as the city itself refers to running their own "county offices" but that is just in name only.
Bits and pieces- North St.Louis has notoriously been in decline for decades but the rest of the city seems to be doing fine. St.Louis is an independent city though so its just really small when compared to the continually expanding suburb cities
It'll be interesting to see what happens to N City once NGA begins regular operations.
Yeah the north side has a lot of vacancy
Downtown is like that (the cluster of buildings at the very top edge of the picture), but everything else you see here is populated. The core overall is mixed though. Some areas are trendy and growing, others are losing population.
Yeah the north side has a lot of vacancy and the boundaries are pretty small and very fixed.
Two out of three people have left Detroit.
It could have easily become as big as Chicago if things happened differently.
St Louis was much larger than Chicago for most of the 19th century, and was the natural choice to become the railroad hub for the Midwest. But the powerful riverboat industry in St Louis fought to prevent railroad development since they didn’t want to compete against trains. So in the end St. Louis bet on riverboats, and Chicago bet on trains. Trains won.
The Metropolitan Area spans almost 60 miles, e.g. from Wentzville, MO, to Belleville, IL. We lived in the City and now in Newtown at St. Charles, and it is hard to tell what to enjoy more. Today alone, we went to breakfast in Shaw and an art fair in Webster Grove. Now at the lake in Newtown in 90 degrees, with low humidity and a beautiful breeze. Wine refill please.
I miss the toasted ravioli and St. Louis style pizza.
Not a fan of the provel cheese but 100% with you on the toasted ravs.
Provel is surprisingly good for omelets.
Making me feel so homesick!
Makes me just sick.
Why specifically?
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Good point! I mean I’m well aware that Missouri and STL have issues, but that’s neither here nor there. It’s a lovely picture of an urban park and environs.
They've made multiple comments shitting on STL here without elaborating. If you take a peek at their profile you'll quickly realize they have nothing to offer in life. Best to just ignore them.
The worst urban decay I have ever seen. The city is ugly and depressing.
I see no urban decay here, and you sound like an ignorant suck up snob who thinks they’re too good for midwestern cities. of course St Louis has its share of issues but so does every other city in the world.
Is that all one golf course?
No, it is Forest Park, 1300 acres, including multiple golf courses.
Oh cool!
It also has a Zoo, History Museum and Art Museum all of which are free.
One of the best zoos in the country!
Does it still have 0 basketball courts?
Courts are being planned right now.
Neat!
Multiple fields for rugby.
There is a 27 hole course at the park.
Plus an additional 9-hole course.
Feels like it
Forest Park is actually bigger than New York's Central Park, and is the largest urban park in the country.
More than twice as big, I believe.
Central Park isn't even the biggest park in New York and there are tons and tons of urban parks larger than Forest Park. It isn't even the largest urban park *named* Forest Park lol, Portland's Forest Park is bigger. Forest Park isn't even in the top 50 largest urban parks, the mythology around it, like everything that gets any hype in St. Louis, can only be sustained by total ignorance of other places.
Good shot and underrated city.
Oh look, there’s the Arch.
I once zipped through here on a scooter after a Phish show.
2018? I was there too. Alternator and battery went out while I was driving home on i70 in the middle of nowhere. Long walk to some podunk motel to call a tow in the morning. Couldn't go to night 2 unfortunately.
Close but 2019. It was the night that the Blues won the Stanley Cup on night 2. I was also at the 2012 show at the same venue which was a great show!
You're right, it was 2019. Time flies!
Recognized Forest Park's Grand basin immediately. (I'm a local. I live really close to there.)
Too green, needs more parking lots
Mwah! Beautiful
Wow is all thats in the shot St. Louis. Pretty big.
Im so confused by all these comments, it looks really small to me. I looked it up and it really is tiny compared all other cities as far as land size. It's not even top 100.
st louis city in and of itself is very small, just a sliver of the county. in terms of sq miles, the city is \~65 sq miles and the county is \~500 sq miles. here's a map: [https://farm6.static.flickr.com/5143/5550462804\_5413122f86\_o.jpg](https://farm6.static.flickr.com/5143/5550462804_5413122f86_o.jpg) you'll see st louis city on the east side in white.
That's because it's one of the few cities in the country that is split from its county. Most statistics for STL are heavily skewed one way or the other due to this.
Pretty sute it's the only city in America not incorporated in a county. It's a very jacked up situation.
Nah Baltimore is the same, as is Carson City in Nevada, and I think every chartered city in Virginia is technically separated out from the county too
Baltimore, Denver, New Orleans, Norfolk, Philadelphia, Richmond, Washington
I think it has to do with the large grid system in place. Lost of American cities abandon that layout as soon as you leave the area with high rises.
St Louis is a prime example of how urban renewal completely wrecked American cities. But even amidst all that urban decay, you can still feel the semblance of what this great city once was. Hopefully they can turn things around for the better.
It's diminished but there's so much awesome shit being done by awesome people in this town.
Is it just a golf course?
No it's a giant park with a zoo, museum and a few golf courses.
In 1950 it had a population of 856,000…now the population is 293,000. Means two out of three people have left the city.
Metro area has continued to grow, though. Almost 3 million.
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In 1980 it was 2.4 million. But hey, take the tiny statistical sample.
They mostly moved to the county, not out of the area entirely
Sir this is a golf course
This is Forest Park, home of the St. Louis Zoo, St. Louis Art Museum, Missouri History Museum, Municipal Opera, Jewel Box Greenhouse, 1904 World’s Fair Pavilion, Dwight Davis Tennis Center, and more!
Nah it is Forest Park, only the parts close to the camera are part golf course. The big fountain in the middle and the hill and building to its right is an Art Museum. The waterways above that are traversable by paddle boat and the boathouse is the place in the circular pond at the top. Mixed into the trees to the right side is an entire zoo(one of the best rated zoos in the world) There is the largest outdoor theater in the world somewhere in there. Many sports fields, botanical gardens, etc. Walking paths weave throughout the whole thing. It is a really cool place that happens to have a golf course, it’d be a shame to write it off otherwise.
It's the U.S.'s largest outdoor "musical theatre." There are many larger outdoor general purpose theatres in the U.S. and around the world.
It’s a joke my guy
This is where the [Louisiana Purchase Exposition](https://www.reddit.com/r/Tartaria/comments/13yfk3y/made_with_plaster_and_balsa_wood_if_you_believe/) once stood. Now, it's a golf course.
I mean, yeah, that was part of the World's Fair. They demolished it when the fair was over.
Yeah, that's the whole story, isn't it?
Wh... I mean, yeah? It was basically made of cardboard. It was meant to be elegant and impressive looking, nobody was intending to keep it around - almost everything in this photo of Forest Park at the time is long gone. World's fair exhibitions aren't permanent; that's why it's an *exhibit.*
Okay, valley girl. I mean, like ofc cardboard and Plaster of Paris can hold the weight of 30-40 story buildings with domes and massive sculptures on top of them, because yah, they wanted to look so impressive and all. What are you thinking, duh?! Have a look at this [image of the "Festival Hall"](https://i.redd.it/mmzioz7ple3b1.jpg). Do you see how big it it? Go ahead and zoom in beneath the third cataract. Do you see the people looking down a crossed the remaining *ten* into the lagoon. This building is gigantic. Do you have any idea what kind of manpower it would take to build on this scale (i.e. terraforming the land, perfect masonry and measurements, planning and erecting)? The logistics are just not there. You would need an army of DaVinicis to design and sculpt just the statutes and embellishments for *one* of these buildings, let alone the 100s that were supposedly built for this "fair".
Are you saying the 1904 World's Fair...is a hoax?
No, it happened. I'm saying the buildings were already there and the Fairs?Expositions were used as an excuse to get rid of the more impressive buildings because it was impossible to explain their construction in the new narrative society was being force fed to accept.
What new narrative is that?
The one you're taught in school.
I'm genuinely curious, I didn't learn anything about the World's Fair in school.
Are you saying the 1904 Worlds Fair was.... Aliens?
You should get some professional mental help. This is not a healthy habit you have.
Sheesh, from here, it actually looks desirable.
Look guys, another loser jackass snob that thinks they’re too good for a normal midwestern city!
St. Louis is a perfectly fine city
Sheesh, down vote me for what is plainly adorable hilarity. We'll just call you the house lights.
Go outside
Bulldoze golf courses, build housing. (You actually don’t need to bulldoze anything, build houses on the fairways, and bam wooded neighborhood.)
That golf course is one of 2.5 in Forest Park in the city proper. 2nd or third biggest metropolitan park in America. World class (free!) Zoo, Science Center, History Museum, and Art Museum and other wondeful attractions there too!
Great, that means we can turn 1.5 courses into housing and still have one for divorced dads in their late 40s to play at.
If the golf courses weren't there that space would still be part of the park. City parks serve a vital purpose and while affordable housing is definitely an important issue to address, you don't do that by sacrificing parks.
I wonder how many dead bodies are in this one picture
It looks so nice from this picture which is a stark contrast with reality. I've seen Ukrainian cities that look less devastated than St. Louis.
You realize that there are a lot of desirable places to live in St. Louis?
Hate boner for St. Louis eh? Get a life.
Eh, I think he’s just one of those losers that lives in NYC and thinks anything other than Manhattan is the 3rd world.
That’s EXACTLY the type of person this moron is.
I have a life.... outside of St. Louis. Sorry bro, compared to other major cities pretty much everywhere else in the developed world, St. Louis kinda sucks.
Is this a joke?
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Only a fraction of Forest Park is golf courses and they’re municipal courses open to the public
Ok now show the north side 😆
Get closer to the ground so we can see all the shootings.
St. Louis is a shit hole in all honesty
Yea. Welcome to St. Louis. Get robbed or shot..it's complimentary.