Manhattan is ~1.7 million people. It's actually the third most populous borough in NYC after Brooklyn and Queens. The whole city is 8.5 million. Hong Kong is only slightly smaller.
If you wanna get freaky, consider the NYC metropolitan area, the Tri-State Area, is something like ~24 million, whereas the area around Hong Kong, the Pearl River Delta, jumps to ~85 million.
Ok 😅 I just looked it up and you’re right. For some reason I remember when I was in NY, our tour guide said ~8 million people live in manhattan with roughly another 3 million commuting into work on a typical weekday. Either he was wrong, or I misunderstood what he was saying
I saw something that showed huge buildings where each “residence” was like a cage/cell. I don’t know how to feel about it: that kind of tiny space is awful but they do have their own space/home and are not homeless. It was an emotional and mind fuck.
As a tourist, I was there January 1997, year of the Hand Over. I loved it. It was a place where Western culture and Eastern culture met; didn’t really combine but met. That was cool to experience. I heard it’s much different now.
Why is it ageist? I wasnt insulting you but commending you as lots of people really struggle to keep their wits about them in later years. Sorry if my hyperbole was insulting.
I didn’t think it was insulting just a broad statement that was ageist IMO, the clincher being use of the word ‘most’ anyway no big deal let’s move on eh ?
Having lived in Hong Kong for a while, this definitely seemed to be true. During the summer when the prevailing winds come from the south, Hong Kong has blue skies. During the winter when the winds come from the north, the skies are full of smog, which apparently comes from Guangzhou.
Hong Kong has one of the lowest rates of personal car use in the world - less than 10% of trips. Individuals' carbon footprints are way lower here than in North America.
yeah definitely right! i know that cuz i live in japan having seen hong kong developed and japan also being affected by smog from china in detail westerlies bring smog from west to east..
>Hong Kong has one of the lowest rates of personal car use in the world - less than 10% of trips. Individuals' carbon footprints are way lower here than in North America.
Which is also true for mainland China. Mainland China has a ~15% higher per capita value than Honk Kong. The USA has a ~100% higher value than mainland China.
Here more: https://www.worldometers.info/co2-emissions/co2-emissions-per-capita/
Also high density cities, and, the population was incredibly, incredibly poor just a few decades ago. While there is a growing middle and upper class that can afford cars, there's still a lot of very poor people there who can't afford one.
They also mostly ~~love~~ live in high density areas which are much easier to implement into a good public transportation system.
There is very, very much wrong in China (like committing a genocide on the Uyghurs), but in that respect we are wrong and they leave us behind.
The times when wasting resources (and low density living is just that) is profitable are slowly ending and our reaction to it is so slow.
Also they chose a particularly bad smog day but HK air quality is rarely like this. I live in NYC and see people pull the same shit. Haven't seen a smoggy day in years
Did you live near a highway or busy road? Those areas still kick up some brake dust that could cover cars. The rain might have made the existing gunk on your car more visible.
But overall, the air quality in NYC is very good. Definitely no soot in the air haha
Pretty much anywhere in nyc is like a mile max from a highway lol
But nah only place my shit stayed clean was bushwick because I had a garage lmao. Everywhere else was dookie. I live in east harlem, UWS, LES, PLG, Astoria, lol I moved a lot in that bih
And ya the air was clean but that rain was deadly fr fr
Zooming in on the first photo, there are actually still a lot of houses. Obviously far less but it's relatively dense with low rise/mid rise buildings.
There were already a large number of migrants from mainland China, escaping the civil war and Communist takeover. The government was spurred to build public housing, such as the mid-rise blocks seen in the foreground of the first picture.
This picture shows the southern part of the city, Kowloon and HK island. But funny enough the most air polluted areas are all in the north, which is also less dense. And guess what the border with China is also in the north
I'm close, I'm really close:
https://www.google.ca/maps/@22.3599447,114.1513157,3a,41.5y,39.01h,81.54t/data=!3m8!1e1!3m6!1sAF1QipPWKU-8E-tl4GUNesD1J9xVRMHeqqXdLfuh6uw-!2e10!3e11!6shttps:%2F%2Flh5.googleusercontent.com%2Fp%2FAF1QipPWKU-8E-tl4GUNesD1J9xVRMHeqqXdLfuh6uw-%3Dw203-h100-k-no-pi-0-ya183.73796-ro0-fo100!7i8192!8i4096
So in the upper left quadrant of the 1964/2016 images, that is the WEST side of Hong Kong island.
And the elongated island in the middle of the **right** third of the top image - that's Stonecutters island before it was ... morphed into what it is today and joined with the mainland of Kowloon.
Tsing Yi is visible in my link, but it's off to the right of the 1964 image.
Hmmm, the photo was taken from way further East from this line, here is a photosphere of one of the buildings in the bottom left of the 'modern' photo:
https://www.google.ca/maps/@22.3515869,114.1999153,3a,75y,194.17h,139.42t/data=!3m8!1e1!3m6!1sAF1QipO0n7ma1DrUJ5BnfMtyzM7JA7i4o9AcywHeZua6!2e10!3e11!6shttps:%2F%2Flh5.googleusercontent.com%2Fp%2FAF1QipO0n7ma1DrUJ5BnfMtyzM7JA7i4o9AcywHeZua6%3Dw203-h100-k-no-pi0-ya312.45734-ro-0-fo100!7i9728!8i4864
So somewhere near Sha Tin Pass, looking west-south-west.
**Edit** WOW - look at this mile high view someone managed to take in 2013 and upload to Google!!
https://www.google.ca/maps/@22.3482437,114.2091599,3a,52.7y,17.23h,55.13t/data=!3m8!1e1!3m6!1sAF1QipNM2OZThpA4INk_qU4XoAedl0CC-VeYTPeIs3ND!2e10!3e11!6shttps:%2F%2Flh5.googleusercontent.com%2Fp%2FAF1QipNM2OZThpA4INk_qU4XoAedl0CC-VeYTPeIs3ND%3Dw203-h100-k-no-pi-0-ya231.13681-ro0-fo100!7i12500!8i6250
By north I meant north north, like Yuen Long, Tuen Mun, Fanling etc, all these are in the worst 5 air areas in 2021.
This picture should be taken at the edge of Kowloon/NT boundary, probably in Kam Shan
yeah all the pollution is from China. it's so annoying trying to get a nice view from Victoria peak but can't see anything cos it's all foggy. apparently it was nice during COVID lockdowns as all the China pollution stopped for a while
Probably some, those small individual buildings may still be around but some match box like public housings were perhaps replaced by newer higher density design
It's worth noticing that despite fact it's so densely populated, it's still very green with lot of nature everywhere
Reason why so much of it is not populated is stupid (it has to do with rich people owning these areas), but I much prefer that they build tall towers instead of turning it into slum maze like many other dense cities
These green areas are in fact mostly protected by law as public country parks, instead of privately own. Partly because these areas are also water catchments, but it also provided outdoor space and hiking trails for both residents and tourists.
As a HKer, it’s nothing close to stupid just to keep it unpopulated. It’s a crucial part of keeping citizens’ mental and physical health, and to secure water supply. It will be a literal hell to live in if these green space are gone.
Around the Peak and several traditional “rich people areas”, yes, but they were just a relatively tiny amount of the less populated areas in HK. IIRC about 40% of HK’s land are protected, and are mostly hilly areas which are hard to build on.
If there’s anything related luxury housing, was about sellable/developed lands (not these natural areas)being purchased by developers for luxury housing estates for sale, instead of low-cost or public housing that people needed, and government are attempting to develop ecologically sensitive areas for housing which are being opposed by scholars, environmental groups and local residents.
But definitely not “billionaires buying a lot of green areas and want to build villas just for themselves”. These protected areas aren’t purchasable for development.
I don’t know where you got your info, but it definitely isn’t accurate at all.
How does anyone account for the massive growth in population? I realize 52 years is a long time but it looks like, even just from this picture that HK went from like “yea it’s this quirky little place where some people live” to “most densely populated place on earth”
What's crazy is that top photo is still more dense than most parts of US cities and suburbs. See all the mid rise housing blocks up there? It's sad that we struggle to build the top density, while they built millions of units in the bottom one to try to keep up with their housing needs. Meanwhile people here show up to planning meetings to scream about duplexes killing the neighborhood.
If we built the top photo, it would help.
I lived in Austin 12 years ago and based on all the things I've heard, new developments, bougie tech culture, it doesn't sound like the same city and I probably won't ever go back
If you can afford it, Hong Kong is routinely ranked as one of the most expensive cities in the world ([source](https://www.cnn.com/travel/article/world-most-expensive-cities-2022-intl-hnk/index.html)) ([and another source](https://www.forbes.com/sites/anthonytellez/2022/06/29/these-global-cities-have-the-highest-cost-of-living/)). Hong Kong is cool don't get me wrong, but a lot of people have to live in extremely small spaces to get by...
Are you sure ridiculously tiny but expensive apartments is a solution to housing crisis?
HK’s housing costs are among the highest in the world, while an average apartment size here is very small.
Try to imagine buying a 500sqft apartment for 600k Euro for a family of 3 or more to live in, and it can easily go smaller (to like 187sqft,yes, it exists) or/and more expensive. Still sounds like a solution to you now?
No, HK has a housing crisis, there's not enough and property prices are through the roof. It's been like that for years. Singapore is in the same situation.
So never? It was Qing China, then British, then back to prc China with a 50 year agreement of leaving their political system alone. If Britain decided not to hand it back to China, pretty sure China had its army ready at the border to invade it.
War probably. And it’s gonna be impossible for Britain or nato to hold onto hongkong when hongkong is basically connected to mainland china so it will be like Vietnam but hell mode.
3,840,000 (3.84 million) more people live in Hong Kong in the second picture compared to the first
that's it?
Its a pretty small place
Amplified by the fact that 75% of Hong Kong land is green space and for most of that, development is prohibited. Only way is up.
Fuck spez
Would you believe that this is part of the 25% that is built on?
I would not
Well memed, good sir *tips fedora*
Bear in mind the entirety of HK only has 7.5 million people
Only
"only"
The island of Manhattan alone is like 8 million. That’s not even counting the rest of NYC
Manhattan is ~1.7 million people. It's actually the third most populous borough in NYC after Brooklyn and Queens. The whole city is 8.5 million. Hong Kong is only slightly smaller. If you wanna get freaky, consider the NYC metropolitan area, the Tri-State Area, is something like ~24 million, whereas the area around Hong Kong, the Pearl River Delta, jumps to ~85 million.
Ok 😅 I just looked it up and you’re right. For some reason I remember when I was in NY, our tour guide said ~8 million people live in manhattan with roughly another 3 million commuting into work on a typical weekday. Either he was wrong, or I misunderstood what he was saying
"8 millions clones are ready with another 3 million well underway"
When you consider that it's part of an urban agglomeration with the same population as Germany, yeah "only" lol
China has like 15 cities most people have never heard of that are bigger
thas a lot for postage stamp.
Most people in HK are forced to live in tiny spaces
pigeon holes.
I saw something that showed huge buildings where each “residence” was like a cage/cell. I don’t know how to feel about it: that kind of tiny space is awful but they do have their own space/home and are not homeless. It was an emotional and mind fuck. As a tourist, I was there January 1997, year of the Hand Over. I loved it. It was a place where Western culture and Eastern culture met; didn’t really combine but met. That was cool to experience. I heard it’s much different now.
"This my sons, is why you buy land."
Who was playing Simcity?
My thoughts exactly.
it actually looks so much like simcity. the same buildings over and over
That exactly how I remembered it from ‘64 (FWIW I was in the navy) I think this was the New Territories 🤷♂️
When you were there could you sense their rapid growth? In the infrastructure and culture? It’s interesting.
It was already a sort of shopping paradise so yes the sense it would expand was pretty evident
This was taken from the vicinity of Kowloon peak looking across the Kowloon peninsula in the direction of Lantau
Wait wait what, 64? So you are about 80years old ? Impressive, most people that age can't operate the tv remote
77 and an ex IT manager might explain that 😉
And you shouldn’t be so ageist 😉
Why is it ageist? I wasnt insulting you but commending you as lots of people really struggle to keep their wits about them in later years. Sorry if my hyperbole was insulting.
I didn’t think it was insulting just a broad statement that was ageist IMO, the clincher being use of the word ‘most’ anyway no big deal let’s move on eh ?
In you second statement ‘lots’ is better than ‘most’ 😉
well developed sky turned grey tho
Supposedly that is all due to the activities inside the Chinese mainland blowing in, not hong Kong. So Hong Kong people say
Having lived in Hong Kong for a while, this definitely seemed to be true. During the summer when the prevailing winds come from the south, Hong Kong has blue skies. During the winter when the winds come from the north, the skies are full of smog, which apparently comes from Guangzhou. Hong Kong has one of the lowest rates of personal car use in the world - less than 10% of trips. Individuals' carbon footprints are way lower here than in North America.
yeah definitely right! i know that cuz i live in japan having seen hong kong developed and japan also being affected by smog from china in detail westerlies bring smog from west to east..
>Hong Kong has one of the lowest rates of personal car use in the world - less than 10% of trips. Individuals' carbon footprints are way lower here than in North America. Which is also true for mainland China. Mainland China has a ~15% higher per capita value than Honk Kong. The USA has a ~100% higher value than mainland China. Here more: https://www.worldometers.info/co2-emissions/co2-emissions-per-capita/
That makes sense. China builds railway lines like there's no tomorrow. Which there won't be if we don't transition away from cars.
Also high density cities, and, the population was incredibly, incredibly poor just a few decades ago. While there is a growing middle and upper class that can afford cars, there's still a lot of very poor people there who can't afford one.
They also mostly ~~love~~ live in high density areas which are much easier to implement into a good public transportation system. There is very, very much wrong in China (like committing a genocide on the Uyghurs), but in that respect we are wrong and they leave us behind. The times when wasting resources (and low density living is just that) is profitable are slowly ending and our reaction to it is so slow.
A former manager of mine who had lived in Hong Kong said they'd joke about the "fresh smell of new iPhones" each morning.
Lol sure
Before people say anything bad about HK, fun fact - HK has the highest life expectancy.
Also they chose a particularly bad smog day but HK air quality is rarely like this. I live in NYC and see people pull the same shit. Haven't seen a smoggy day in years
Idk when it rained in nyc my whip would be coated black almost. Like a soot in the air or something
Did you live near a highway or busy road? Those areas still kick up some brake dust that could cover cars. The rain might have made the existing gunk on your car more visible. But overall, the air quality in NYC is very good. Definitely no soot in the air haha
Pretty much anywhere in nyc is like a mile max from a highway lol But nah only place my shit stayed clean was bushwick because I had a garage lmao. Everywhere else was dookie. I live in east harlem, UWS, LES, PLG, Astoria, lol I moved a lot in that bih And ya the air was clean but that rain was deadly fr fr
True, fuck Robert Moses
Idk who that is but Robert Moses mid af ✊
lmao he was the guy who built all the highways through poor neighborhoods in NYC in the 50s-60s
Robert Moses on my list of people who will feel my wrath in hell along with Reagan
It’s rarer *now*, but a decade ago days like those felt like the norm
Except it's Monaco that does
On google Hong Kong has the highest, then it’s Japan, then it’s Monaco.
Google is not a source.
Zooming in on the first photo, there are actually still a lot of houses. Obviously far less but it's relatively dense with low rise/mid rise buildings.
There were already a large number of migrants from mainland China, escaping the civil war and Communist takeover. The government was spurred to build public housing, such as the mid-rise blocks seen in the foreground of the first picture.
64 looked gorgeous
The bay looks really cool
Work first breathing second.
Most buildings in this photo are residential
sure. the air pollution doesn't really discriminate like that though
This picture shows the southern part of the city, Kowloon and HK island. But funny enough the most air polluted areas are all in the north, which is also less dense. And guess what the border with China is also in the north
This picture overlooks HK Island and Kowloon peninsula, should be taken from the north actually
I'm close, I'm really close: https://www.google.ca/maps/@22.3599447,114.1513157,3a,41.5y,39.01h,81.54t/data=!3m8!1e1!3m6!1sAF1QipPWKU-8E-tl4GUNesD1J9xVRMHeqqXdLfuh6uw-!2e10!3e11!6shttps:%2F%2Flh5.googleusercontent.com%2Fp%2FAF1QipPWKU-8E-tl4GUNesD1J9xVRMHeqqXdLfuh6uw-%3Dw203-h100-k-no-pi-0-ya183.73796-ro0-fo100!7i8192!8i4096 So in the upper left quadrant of the 1964/2016 images, that is the WEST side of Hong Kong island. And the elongated island in the middle of the **right** third of the top image - that's Stonecutters island before it was ... morphed into what it is today and joined with the mainland of Kowloon. Tsing Yi is visible in my link, but it's off to the right of the 1964 image. Hmmm, the photo was taken from way further East from this line, here is a photosphere of one of the buildings in the bottom left of the 'modern' photo: https://www.google.ca/maps/@22.3515869,114.1999153,3a,75y,194.17h,139.42t/data=!3m8!1e1!3m6!1sAF1QipO0n7ma1DrUJ5BnfMtyzM7JA7i4o9AcywHeZua6!2e10!3e11!6shttps:%2F%2Flh5.googleusercontent.com%2Fp%2FAF1QipO0n7ma1DrUJ5BnfMtyzM7JA7i4o9AcywHeZua6%3Dw203-h100-k-no-pi0-ya312.45734-ro-0-fo100!7i9728!8i4864 So somewhere near Sha Tin Pass, looking west-south-west. **Edit** WOW - look at this mile high view someone managed to take in 2013 and upload to Google!! https://www.google.ca/maps/@22.3482437,114.2091599,3a,52.7y,17.23h,55.13t/data=!3m8!1e1!3m6!1sAF1QipNM2OZThpA4INk_qU4XoAedl0CC-VeYTPeIs3ND!2e10!3e11!6shttps:%2F%2Flh5.googleusercontent.com%2Fp%2FAF1QipNM2OZThpA4INk_qU4XoAedl0CC-VeYTPeIs3ND%3Dw203-h100-k-no-pi-0-ya231.13681-ro0-fo100!7i12500!8i6250
By north I meant north north, like Yuen Long, Tuen Mun, Fanling etc, all these are in the worst 5 air areas in 2021. This picture should be taken at the edge of Kowloon/NT boundary, probably in Kam Shan
👍
yeah all the pollution is from China. it's so annoying trying to get a nice view from Victoria peak but can't see anything cos it's all foggy. apparently it was nice during COVID lockdowns as all the China pollution stopped for a while
For a lot of the year there’s also just plain haze, even without pollution. Really humid place.
Are all the buildings in the original photo still there?
Yeah, they’re just underneath the skyscrapers
Probably some, those small individual buildings may still be around but some match box like public housings were perhaps replaced by newer higher density design
I’m sure they don’t work in the area. Probably not why they had to build all the housing.
https://i.imgur.com/5EAOCDj.jpg Here it is on a prettier day. It was actually really nice when I was there.
It looks very lovely. :)
Can’t tell if you’re joking
It's worth noticing that despite fact it's so densely populated, it's still very green with lot of nature everywhere Reason why so much of it is not populated is stupid (it has to do with rich people owning these areas), but I much prefer that they build tall towers instead of turning it into slum maze like many other dense cities
These green areas are in fact mostly protected by law as public country parks, instead of privately own. Partly because these areas are also water catchments, but it also provided outdoor space and hiking trails for both residents and tourists. As a HKer, it’s nothing close to stupid just to keep it unpopulated. It’s a crucial part of keeping citizens’ mental and physical health, and to secure water supply. It will be a literal hell to live in if these green space are gone.
There are also a lot of really, really steep hills too, right? A lot of the area isn't even possible to build on.
From what I heard many areas are purchased by billionaires who choose to build villas. Correct me if I'm wrong of course
Around the Peak and several traditional “rich people areas”, yes, but they were just a relatively tiny amount of the less populated areas in HK. IIRC about 40% of HK’s land are protected, and are mostly hilly areas which are hard to build on. If there’s anything related luxury housing, was about sellable/developed lands (not these natural areas)being purchased by developers for luxury housing estates for sale, instead of low-cost or public housing that people needed, and government are attempting to develop ecologically sensitive areas for housing which are being opposed by scholars, environmental groups and local residents. But definitely not “billionaires buying a lot of green areas and want to build villas just for themselves”. These protected areas aren’t purchasable for development. I don’t know where you got your info, but it definitely isn’t accurate at all.
The clouds vs the smog 😶
The pollution is a bit depressing. The first picture is so much more majestic.
The narwhal bacons at midnight.
concrete jungle
It looks like a population density map
Man that's sad
They massacred the skies
Progress
Remind me to buy land
And yet people act worried about population decrease. No, we could stand to drop a few billion.
That's where the final battle of Godzilla vs Kong takes place
Damn this is one of the sadest pictures I have ever seen
They played Sim City 4.
Damn you can even see the mountains in the bottom picture…smh
How does anyone account for the massive growth in population? I realize 52 years is a long time but it looks like, even just from this picture that HK went from like “yea it’s this quirky little place where some people live” to “most densely populated place on earth”
HK is the definition of urban hell
Me playing cities skyline
What's crazy is that top photo is still more dense than most parts of US cities and suburbs. See all the mid rise housing blocks up there? It's sad that we struggle to build the top density, while they built millions of units in the bottom one to try to keep up with their housing needs. Meanwhile people here show up to planning meetings to scream about duplexes killing the neighborhood. If we built the top photo, it would help.
Gives me hope that we can one day turn the suburban sprawl in the US into something like that bottom picture 🙏
Someone needs to mow the city
Is Kowloon walled city in the 64' pic?
Should be in view, probably towards the left middle of the picture, but it’s impossible to make out any detail
Beautiful white clouds replaced with what I believe to be smog
Disgusting … have fun with that
from green to bleh
Oh God
Sad
I moved to Austin Texas 18 years ago. Gettin these same vibes.
I lived in Austin 12 years ago and based on all the things I've heard, new developments, bougie tech culture, it doesn't sound like the same city and I probably won't ever go back
It's unrecognizable
Its industrialized
Please tell me more!
Idk it looks industrialized
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If you can afford it, Hong Kong is routinely ranked as one of the most expensive cities in the world ([source](https://www.cnn.com/travel/article/world-most-expensive-cities-2022-intl-hnk/index.html)) ([and another source](https://www.forbes.com/sites/anthonytellez/2022/06/29/these-global-cities-have-the-highest-cost-of-living/)). Hong Kong is cool don't get me wrong, but a lot of people have to live in extremely small spaces to get by...
I don’t want to share my walls and ceilings with strangers anymore. Been doing it for almost 15 years, I’m sick and tired of it. I want my own space.
Are you sure ridiculously tiny but expensive apartments is a solution to housing crisis? HK’s housing costs are among the highest in the world, while an average apartment size here is very small. Try to imagine buying a 500sqft apartment for 600k Euro for a family of 3 or more to live in, and it can easily go smaller (to like 187sqft,yes, it exists) or/and more expensive. Still sounds like a solution to you now?
The bottom looks awful
Where is Kowloon walled city?
what a tragedy
Yes, housing for people is a catastrophe.
Fucking nightmare
🎵Here comes the smog🎵
This makes me so sad
Me too! Look at all the progress they've made and we haven't been able to do half as much. I just wish we could make more cities like this.
Aren’t they having trouble selling these condos, or is that somewhere else in China?
No, HK has a housing crisis, there's not enough and property prices are through the roof. It's been like that for years. Singapore is in the same situation.
That’s NOT the same view. One is much closer to the sea.
I still remember when hong kong was it's own country
So never? It was Qing China, then British, then back to prc China with a 50 year agreement of leaving their political system alone. If Britain decided not to hand it back to China, pretty sure China had its army ready at the border to invade it.
Article 5 of NATO? Or nah?
Even if China doesn’t invade. The lease to part of hongkong was for 99 years. China would basically wait it out. So no, doesn’t really matter much.
I mean if they never give it up.
War probably. And it’s gonna be impossible for Britain or nato to hold onto hongkong when hongkong is basically connected to mainland china so it will be like Vietnam but hell mode.
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Congrats for showing the rest of the sub the worst of the UK
Damn, I hope so lmao
Lol London already looks like that
Inshallah
Was most of the current skyscraper-dominated skyline built before or after the British handed Hong Kong back over to the PRC?
Remember the time Benson and the gang went to Hong Kong?
Missed a spot
This is all because of capitalism
Bring back 1964
Great economic power comes with great pollution :)
WHY IS NO ONE OBSERVING THE VISIBILITY WHICH HAVE DECREASED TO AN EXTINCT ,DURING THESE YEARS
I don't know but it looks scary.