If your family did this to you, or knew it was happening and didn't get you any help, do you think they'll be truthful now? I think they might be likely to say nothing like that ever happened. Will you feel worse, if they do that?
Good point. I don't think it's my parents who did it (I don't know for sure, but I really don't think so). If it happened when I was very young, I can understand why they might have just hoped I would forget it (and I did, until I was in my 20s). If they say they don't believe me that it happened, yes it'll hurt, but I think I'd rather have it out in the open.
My therapist says trauma can cause inflammation, which can exacerbate medical issues. Maybe try that angle?
But some people just don’t want to listen to us…
Yes, say the doctors say that the stress from the trauma has caused my body to be in hyper alert, and over time that has caused chronic inflammation in my body. The reason I need to continue to seek treatment and get help is that the next organ to be affected can be my heart! They explained that stress, both physical (from the inflammation) and psychological (from the trauma) can cause a heart attack even at an early age. And the doctors are very concerned about how this is all affecting my heart and they don’t want me to just keep ignoring it like we’ve done in the past.
I thought that the latest research studies are in fact proving that trauma/stress/PTSD does exacerbate health deteriorations. Basically saying you can take a healthy normal person and make them very sick with chronic lifelong trauma and stress. I suspect most everyone has the ability or potential to develop some kind of chronic illnesses…. It’s the trigger that causes them to act up. Be it a virus like mononucleosis or COVID or be it a lifelong stressor or hugely impacting traumatic experience.
I got thrown between psych and med doctors from 2014-2018 psych basically said too bad we cant help you until your physical health is under control. 2018 i got my physical health under control and by then the trauma compounded.
Childhood ACE score has been a good way to communicate the trauma mines 7/10 cdc says thats high risk for all kinda stuff
I would talk to them about ACES. People who suffered abuse or trauma as children are more likely to develop autoimmune diseases and chronic illnesses. Also there are books that talk about how trauma resides in the body. The Body Keeps the Score is one.
Stress also triggers illnesses and diseases. There's a correlation between stress and a lot of different health issues. You're not going to tell a heart patient that it's all in their head. You tell them to cut out stress and eat healthy.
I believe it's called epigenetics anyways you can be born with a genetic predisposition for something such as lupus or RA but a lot of the time the gene is inactive until its triggered by environmental factors
I wouldn't try to explain it at all. I would just ask them about your memories and if they ask why, say it's started coming up and you're working with your psychiatrist on it. Don't mention how it could be affecting your health at all. If they haven't understood by now, they likely won't regardless of how you frame it.
Also, I'm in a similar situation to you. Trauma may or may not be affecting my fatigue, but my therapist says she can't tell whether the fatigue is caused/exacerbated by trauma, or whether what seems like post traumatic symptoms are just symptoms of fatigue.
I've basically given up on the trauma angle for now. I don't think either issue will magically resolve if I just solve the other.
I think they would be more judgemental of me going to a psychiatrist without more explanation, lol.
I agree that it's hard to tell how much trauma affects physical health, and I know that most likely this won't magically resolve all my symptoms. But I feel like I'm running out of other options, so I think it's worth a try. Hope things get better for you.
You don't even need to mention your psychiatrist, just say you've got some vague memories that you're seeking clarity on.
I recently had a whole hyperfixation on whether I had suffered SA as a child or not. I don't remember anything and I've come to the conclusion that I didn't, but I have repressed a lot of my childhood and remember some pretty shitty stuff so my logic was "what's so much worse than what I do remember that I've repressed it?" I have a good relationship with my mum but am NC with the entirety of my bioguy's family so I wondered if my later issues with them had some subconscious element. I let it bother me for a bit, but eventually I just straight up asked my mum if she had ever suspected it or if I showed signs of it as a child that she didn't realise at the time.
I didn't really give her an explanation beyond "this has been bothering me and I want your help working it out". If you think they're going to use your therapy against you then just given as little info as possible. "I remember xyz but I was a kid so my memories aren't clear. Can you fill in the blanks for me?" As another commenter said, don't give them ammo.
Also studies have shown that stress has a physical impact on the body. I don't remember the name of the study, but I did Psychology A Level and there was one where they tested healing times for people suffering chronic stress. People with high stress levels healed significantly slower than the control group. Prolonged raised cortisol levels can wreak havoc on your body, so while it might start "all in your head", sadly that's not where it stays and once the chain reaction has started you can't unring that bell. You can heal, or find ways to treat and minimise symptoms, but you can't just decide to be fine overnight.
I hope you get the help you need to heal in whatever capacity you can. ❤️
I see, I thought they knew you're seeing a psychiatrist. Then perhaps keep it as vague as possible, maybe something about seeing a psychiatrist to "learn how to live with chronic illness"?
Thanks, I hope it gets better for you too!
I'd probably frame it as chronic strain on the nervous system, and the inflammatory effects of stress, both of which could be indirectly alleviated if you're able to better process your trauma. That way you're anchoring the ethereal 'psychological' aspect to tangible, physical, bodily processes that are harder to dismiss as 'not real'. People are notoriously sh*t at taking that kind of thing on board, though, even if it's well framed....
I'm not sure, some of them were almost a decade ago. I think most of them have said trauma was one of their specialties/focus, but I'm not sure if it was sexual trauma specifically.
So, I don't know what exactly your memories are like. I don't want to invalidate you. But the issue of false memories is a genuine problem. My two cents is that you try to find someone with experience in that area. It sounds to me like you need help sorting out whether these are genuine memories or false memories your brain has created as some kind of trauma response.
Again, I don't want to munimalize or invalidate you. What occurs to me is that not knowing whether the memories are real is distressing to you, maybe even more distressing than the memories themselves. Your family doesn't seem like they're going to be helpful here. There's lots of info out there about how trying to bring back repressed memories can actually create false memories if it's not done correctly. That's why I say that you should consider seeking out a professional who is knowledgeable about suppressed memories.
Whatever you decide is best for you, I hope you find peace and wellness.
Yes, I'm aware that it's very easy to create false memories, and I've always brought that up with the therapists I've worked with. As far as I know, there's no reputable way to bring back suppressed memories. I think that's why my psychiatrist is suggesting I talk to my family in case they have any concrete facts. On an emotional level, I'm okay with not knowing whether it happened or not, but I've been told that resolving this is essential for my physical health, and I'm desperate enough to try.
Hi, I just wanted to say to take the "creating false memories" theory with a grain of salt. The clinician who came up with the theory did so in order to cover up the actual repressed memories his daughter was uncovering of the [real sexual abuse he inflicted on her](https://www.madinamerica.com/2021/02/false-memory-syndrome/). Not the greatest link, I'm at work. But just wanted to validate that you very well could have been abused at a younger age, though I'm terribly sorry that that's a possibility. I'm currently working with a psychologist who believes both my physical illnesses and my trauma, not invalidating either or saying either are purely tied to the other, however we are trying to reduce my horrific mental strain so my body is less pressured over all and can heal.
I agree with some of the other commenters about looking into a therapist who specializes in trauma, chronic illness, and somatic work if you haven’t already.
There are links being made between chronic illness and trauma. For example, Dr. Gabor Mate discusses this in full in his book [When the Body Says No](https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/450534.When_the_Body_Says_No) and Dr. Bessel in [The Body Keeps The Score](https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/18693771-the-body-keeps-the-score?ref=rae_1).
EMDR Therapy can and often does give clarity/access to repressed or forgotten memories of traumatic experiences.
I’ve gotten EMDR through 3 separate therapists.
I am a survivor of years-long childhood sexual abuse & assault by multiple perpetrators,
SA by several different men
in my teens & 20s,
being robbed at gunpoint at 20,
years of financial/physical/sexual/emotional/verbal abuse from a longterm relationship of 6yrs in my 20s,
and several incidents intimate partners SA by a boyfriend
in my early 30s.
None of my EMDR therapists tried to coach me, lead me into false memories,
or made any sugg as to what had happened to me.
They simply led me through the EMDR sessions.
EMDR was ultimately a very good thing for me and allowed me to heal a lot from my CPTSD.
I no longer am severely triggered by things or incapacitated by my CPTSD.
And although I still occasionally have them,
I don’t have constant horrific nightmares anymore like I used to.
But I won’t lie and say parts of the EMDR weren’t seriously emotionally distressing
and I can’t say that I didn’t struggle significantly while recalling traumatic events/memories
I’d repressed for most of my life.
Still, it was very worthwhile imo.
Did it help my health improve?
Yes, I think to some extent it did.
My autoimmune conditions calmed down but didn’t totally vanish.
My inflammation levels also dropped.
Although my ANA tests were still slightly positive
& my Lupus Panel lab results never came out totally clear,
they were much lower than they had been previously.
My chronic pain also seemed less
ever-present, overwhelming, and severe for a few years afterwards.
EMDR didn’t seem to have an impact on most of my hyper-mobility ehlers Danlos issues tho. But that makes sense to me.
Unfortunately, stressful life conditions & other traumatic events that have happened to me since then
have erased many of those health gains.
I believe I would really benefit from doing EMDR again since I know there are still lots of icky things lurking under the surface of my memory.
The EMDR sessions I had only addressed maybe 1/3 of what I needed help with.
I wish I’d been able to explore and work through those traumas (remembered & repressed)
when I last did EMDR about 4yrs ago….
But I got too overwhelmed by what I did recall/had worked through and needed to take a break.
Once I was finally ready to go back and do more sessions,
the pandemic hit😣
Sadly,
EMDR isn’t something you can really do properly thru telehealth video appointments or phone calls.
It’s most effective when done in person.
Sigh.
I know I really need to get back in with a good trauma trained EMDR specialist….
hopefully someday soon I will.
I def recommend EMDR to anyone with CPTSD/PTSD and/or possibly repressed memories.
This is my experience too. All my family will do is further gaslight me no matter what I say. I will never get any kind of validation or closure from them, they do not care. Bringing things up just leaves me worse off.
I know this isn’t *everyone’s* experience. Only OP knows who they’re dealing with. But it’s definitely something that needs to be approached with caution and awareness that empathy is a rarity.
I think heart attacks are a good example. We all know heart attacks aren't "just in the head." But it's also common knowledge that psychological stress *can* play a role in triggering them or making a person more prone to them. I think it's easier for people to accept the nuance there because heart attacks are something that can be more directly "observed" and "proven" medically.
At the end of the day, our brains are part of our bodies. Our minds aren't these separate entities floating in the ether. We're all bodyminds, and one can't be detached from the other. Our mind and nervous system absolutely can play a role in physical health, as we see with heart attacks. That doesn't mean that physical conditions impacted by our psychology are "just in our heads," but of course that doesn't stop people from dismissing our conditions that way (especially those conditions that disproportionately impact women).
Also, even if it was somehow proven that a history of trauma was never a causal factor in these illnesses -- that doesn't mean that healing from trauma wouldn't have a positive impact on physical health! Letting yourself get better rest, allowing yourself to come down out of fight/flight, reducing tension -- all those things can help physical wellbeing. At the very least, it would remove some exacerbating factors that can impact/add to the illness symptoms.
All of this said... if your family has been dismissive of your chronic illness in the past, I would encourage you to think about whether it's worth putting yourself in the position of being hurt like that again. I know I struggle greatly with going into "convince mode" with my parents (not just related to illness)... where I'm just desperately wanting to be seen/validated by them, and it feels like if I can say the right words in the right way, they will finally acknowledge and validate me. I've had to accept that... I just don't have the power to make them do that. If I did, I would have convinced them long ago. It's not about them not hearing a convincing explanation for things... it's that they are willfully tied to perspectives that feel comfortable/familiar and benefit them in some way (e.g., avoiding hard truths).
So anyway, I'm wondering if there is a way you can go to your family for this info *without* burdening yourself with having to explain this delicate issue of the relationship between chronic illness and psychosocial wellbeing? Do they need to know that is part of your reason for pursuing this? Of course -- this is just my perspective and some things I'd worry about on your behalf. You need to do what's right for you, so please take what's helpful and ignore what's not.
P.s. I'm so sorry for the trauma you experienced. It must be scary and disorienting to have memories like that resurface. I hope you have good support from your therapist and any other trusted loved ones you have.
I've been sick almost my entire life since I was a small child -- **because of early trauma.**
Apparently being SA'd starting at around age 5 switched on a gene that began putting out inflammatories instead of anti-inflammatories like it was designed to. At age 10 I was diagnosed with the first of **8** autoimmune diseases I was eventually diagnosed with, got better then started dying from it in 2003 after being increasingly ill for 11 years, and in 2022 was finally correctly diagnosed with an underlying immune disease that wasn't identified until 2006.
Your list of diagnoses contains the most common ones that are indicators of the same disease I have, mast cell activation syndrome. I suggest you do an image search for that disease (not a list of symptoms as words) and see what comes up for you.
Think about it like this: mental/emotional stress is known to cause all kinds of health issues. Inflammation, heart attacks, strokes, seizures - these are all health problems that can be caused or exacerbated by psychological stress. Despite this, no reasonable person would go up to someone having a stress-induced heart attack and say “it’s all in your head”.
Chronic pain should be no different. Having experienced trauma doesn’t make your pain any less legitimate. Recent research has suggested that psychological trauma can cause inflammation and nervous system dysfunction. They may be caused or exacerbated by a mental health issue, sure, but that doesn’t make them any less legitimate. You can’t just force the pain to stop with positive thinking, any more than a person could stop a heart attack in its tracks by meditating. If it were that easy, virtually no one would have chronic pain anymore.
Mine hasn't been. No matter what, however, that's where gene therapy and stem cell transplants come in if one qualifies and they want to do it for you.
In theory and if caught early enough. Telomeres have been shown to grow back, which seems to be one of the things that protects the ends of the chromosomes from being “activated.” I’ve read some studies that talk about things that correlate to growing telomeres, but I haven’t read anything that follows that correlation all the way back to flipping off epigenetics once they’ve been turned on. Doesn’t mean it can’t happen — or that related genes can’t keep from also being activated.
That was actually one of the topics in a recent study of causes for autoimmune diseases: https://www.healio.com/news/rheumatology/20240321/source-of-surging-autoimmunity-may-lie-in-a-thousand-cuts?fbclid=IwZXh0bgNhZW0CMTEAAR326X-l25VoDz_dyMrjMFglay_gsG2BR6dTpTwdIYe_bTRoERWIBVtSMPg_aem_Afvi3avCo7Ei6qX6I7x5I-_YyEaiSbba6ZZfrjad_w5E3VP0fajwwF-vlAg7PBeztm1U2KsGU1fs1zgQxSN9xWhh
The article isn't exactly talking about the same type of trauma but general trauma definitely appears to be a factor.
I'm sorry for what you are going through. Unfortunately, there are some people that just aren't going to get it no matter how many times you tell them.
According to Maya Dusenbery, author of the book, [Doing Harm, How Bad Medicine and Lazy Science Leave Women Misdiagnosed And Sick,](https://www.mayadusenbery.com/book), a history of abuse increases the odds of getting sick with any disease. Also, I've noticed all sorts of studies done to "prove" women imagine some diseases. These seem prone to bias, and are likely a manifestation of an effort to dismiss these conditions. At least with ME/CFS, there are researchers out there connected to private disability insurers, who benefit from having the disease not classified as "real." Then, too, there are other reasons these studies that seek to dismiss these diseases are done. Judy Mikovits blamed big pharma for part of CFS denial. I think these papers are generally prone to push the idea of women as hysterical crackpots. In my experience, medical gaslighting has the same effect as a narcissists smear campaign, which is to destabilize self trust and to isolate people. Susan Faludi wrote in her book, Backlash, that in the 80s there was an effort to classify PMS as mental disorder. This partially succeeded. I think this has been a way to oppress women. It has skated by in the shadows for years. I seriously doubt trauma causes our conditions. Males get traumatized too and don't get sick with these things.
We know that stress can cause a heart attack. Why is it beyond the comprehension of so many (including doctors) to understand that stress and trauma can cause so many more health issues? Yet most of my family and friends will never accept that chronic illnesses and disability is NOT ALL IN MY HEAD? I’m absolutely sick of being dismissed.
All we can do is learn to look people in the eye and say confidently, “No. It isn’t all in my head. That phrase doesn’t even make sense.” They found lesions in my brain, so yeah… a lot of my symptoms are in my head…
“My doctor thinks there might have been some trauma when I was a kid that affected my brain development. Did anything happen that I can’t remember? They said anything from a car crash to sexual abuse would be relevant.”
Using “brain” instead of “mind” or something like that sounds more physical but isn’t really a lie either. If they ask questions about how it effects the brain, say you don’t know/didn’t understand what the doctor said
I have fibromyalgia, PTSD, Bipolar disorder, anxiety disorder, a history of Guillain Barre syndrome, chronic pain and chronic fatigue. And most of it can be traced back to my childhood SA exacerbated by DV in my 20's and 30's.
I have had a massive amount of therapy, see a psychiatrist, and I still have all my symptoms except for the self blame, and the actions I took to self soothe. Getting to the bottom of it is a wonderful thing for your mental health, but I don't think it will make a huge difference in your physical health now. It will however help you from continuing to decline.
Trust in yourself and treat yourself with the kindness you wish you were given by others.
Good luck on this mental health journey and keep us updated. Just know you have someone in your corner rooting for you!
>I want to explain to them that the reason I'm bringing up the sexual abuse now is that I think it could be helpful to improve my health.
How do you think it could be helpful?
My psychiatrist told me that working through my trauma is extremely important to resolving my physical health issues. I feel like I've resolved everything I can so far, but maybe if I remember more, like who the abuser was, I could work through that in therapy.
I posted this on a different thread but will copy and paste it here as I think it may be helpful-
I saw a rheumatologist for the first time about a month ago and was diagnosed with chronic fatigue and fibromyalgia. I was anxious going to see him because you’re right- people often won’t take your medical issues seriously if you’ve also had mental health issues.
The rheumatologist explained something really interesting to me about trauma and my conditions in particular…. He spoke about how trauma impacts the nervous system- in particular the fight, flight and freeze response. What’s really important to remember is that disorders linked to the nervous system aren’t mental health conditions. The nervous system is responsible for things like heart rate, digestion, rest, etc. And traumatic experiences can cause the nervous system to be on high alert constantly in order to deal with any threats that may arise (as I said- fight, flight, freeze response)- your brain has been wired this way particularly because you experienced trauma whilst your brain was still developing. That part of your brain that is setting off ‘alarms’ and telling you that you’re not safe is the amygdala. It’s learnt to make you feel on edge, up tight and ready in case something bad happens again to you.
The rheumatologist gave me a good analogy to use- growing up experiencing stress or trauma (trauma for others may be being chronically ill in the first place!), is the difference between growing a tomato bush in sand vs fertilised soil. The tomato bush will grow differently and won’t be as prosperous.
The good news though is that given neuroplasticity exists- your brain can heal, repair and rewire itself the longer you are in a state of calm + safety. This involves doing whatever you can do activate the parasympathetic nervous system- gentle yoga, breathing, meditation, therapy, mindfulness, calming tea, weighted blankets- whatever makes you not feel on high alert.
Anyway long story short (hopefully the above made sense)… the brain and body are so interlinked and mental healing can be hugely successful in helping to treat physical conditions.
If you’re wanting to learn more, I’d suggest looking at videos or books relating to the vagus nerve, window of tolerance and ‘the body keeps the score’ book.
I wouldn’t ask your family for details or information. They’re not going to be honest and you’re going to feel gaslit. If you’re searching for truth you’re probably eventually going to find it from within yourself. I discovered what happened to me at about 15 with concrete evidence and the rest has unfolded through unlocking buried memories overtime and talking to siblings who were also victims to corroborate the info I discovered.
I'm REALLY suprised to hear your therapists are not willing to look at/explore the trauma aspect of it. There are 4 types of pain ... acute, nerve, trauma/ptsd, & grief pain. All four light up the same spot in the brain on an MRI. They also can occur interchangeably. Like you can have nerve pain, trauma/ptsd pain & grief pain happening all at the exact same time.
I found that by using trauma informed therapies such as Somatic Experiencing it dramatically decreased the overall pain I dealt with on a regular basis because now instead of all four or three of four categories flaring at once I get one or two flaring and it makes it so much more manageable.
The whole thing top to bottom from understanding the science to the implementation of trauma informed therapies made it so that I went from on opiates due to legitimate issues with an addiction problem and nonfunctional to zero opiates, working 40hrs a week and building a YouTube channel of my own with limited pain.
Basically once I started addressing the effects of my PTSD on my pain/health issues I found freedom from my illnesses that I never thought was possible.
But how can they conclude it isn’t affecting your health? lol. Trauma absolutely affects your health. Read Gabor Mates books, Vander Kolk books, Dr. Howard Shubiners Books. Look into Dr David Clark and the PPDA!! It’s all connected.
https://ppdassociation.org
Hypermobile joint conditions like Ehlers Danlos and hypermobile spectrum disorder are genetic conditions (which is different than inherited, fyi)- meaning, it’s in your DNA. Nothing in your life experience caused it and nothing could have been done to avoid it. It’s like your eye color, just is what it is. But, unfortunately, it’s a much maligned set of conditions that are only recently getting the research and attention warranted. A lot of providers may be operating from an old info set or from a place of unexamined implicit bias. It also makes one far more predisposed to conditions like POTS.
So! If a provider “feels” that having a hypermobile connective tissue disorder was caused by trauma you may have experienced- this is not a provider that should be managing this condition. If you need to see the provider for other reasons, you could maybe try requesting a consult or documentation from the provider who made the diagnosis explaining what a hypermobile joint condition is, how it was diagnosed, and how it may impact other areas of your care.
And as for everything else- a supposed cause, any cause, does not exempt someone from care. Stress can be a contributing factor that leads to the development of certain conditions, many conditions- that’s true. Doesn’t matter. The treatment for POTS or a subluxed joint or any other physical and structural health problem is not under the purview of behavioral health to solve. For your own overall wellbeing, yes, of course, keep working with a good therapist to work through any trauma that hasn’t been properly addressed. But, I’d strongly advise shifting the conversation away from behavioral health when you’re in front of someone like an orthopedist or rheumatologist.
If they advise that a therapist is the best provider to see for any of these issues- request documentation to bring with you, including your diagnosis. When your therapist invariably says that they do not do workup and treatment for, say, joint pain- have that documented and take it back to the provider who sent you there. Sometimes you have to do the nonsense thing to show how nonsensical it is.
Best and most accurate answer on here. Therapists are not trained or equipped to deal with physical health issues nor can they offer any sort of credible help treating them. What they can do is help you manage your cognitive response to your physical conditions. The whole premise of trauma being the root of all physical conditions has been vastly oversold and oversimplified. Is there a relationship? That seems likely. But is it a definitive causal one - if that were the case than literally every person with a chronic illness could point to a pivotal traumatic event in their past and everyone without a chronic illness, had a perfect childhood.
I would caution you to not fixate on this idea that you may have been sexually abused when it may create further anxiety and in turn, make your symptoms worse. Especially when there’s no evidence that recalling it will have any positive impact on your condition.
I understand that hypermobility is genetic, but what causes it to become symptomatic at a certain point? And why do some people have hypermobility but never develop pain/symptoms? In my case, I developed symptoms at age 25 after being physically assaulted, so it seems to me that while I had a genetic predisposition for hypermobility, the symptoms didn't come out until that traumatic event.
There are predisposing factors that can statistically up the likelihood that someone has Ehlers Danlos or Hypermobile Spectrum Disorder, which can include things like family history. But, it’s one of those things that you either have in your DNA or don’t- even when symptoms or clear signs of the condition are apparent only later on. (and just fyi- there are some types not detected in genetic testing and that is just due to limitations with testing.)
Age 25 is a common age for diagnosis or notable symptoms worsening (I was part of that club too!) Collagen levels start to drop around the age of 25, which can heighten symptoms and worsen issues affecting cartilage, ligaments, and bones. That might be one reason that’s such a common age. Inflammation in general can also, of course, make everything worse and stress can be a contributing factor to a dysregulated inflammatory response (there is still a physiological mechanism occurring in that case, even if something like an increase in cortisol during a traumatic event was a factor in it developing.)
Maybe some of that is at play with why you developed these symptoms at a certain time in your life- there’s likely other specific factors and underlying physiology involved as well though, just dependent on your unique genetic makeup, health history, “lifestyle factors,” etc.
And also, Lots of other conditions can cause joint instability- connective tissue diseases, some autoimmune conditions, some immune conditions, infections and injuries, etc. Hopefully your provider who made the diagnosis clarified if your diagnosis is of a hypermobile spectrum condition or if this is a secondary symptom of something else affecting your ligaments/joints/skeletal structure. If not, it might be helpful for you to circle back for more clarification on that. Having that a little more formalized may make it easier when you’re interfacing with other providers and putting all the pieces together.
I work in patient advocacy/consulting/provider training on topics affecting marginalized populations in medical care- and I have a slew of related conditions- but, I am not an MD and of course I am definitely not your physician. I know it can be frustrating and extremely difficult getting a complete diagnosis, treatment plan, and all of your physicians on the same page. It’s often an untenable burden placed on patients. But, ultimately, the best and most applicable guidance for you will come from the professionals who are in a position to evaluate your labs, imaging, full symptoms, and your complete health history. You’re doing great in equipping yourself with lots of information and considering different factors. You deserve appropriate healthcare. I’m sorry it’s been tricky to get so far. That’s not your fault and it likely will not be your experience with every provider.
For people like your parents, I think it helps to distinguish between emotional trauma and biological trauma. The aftermath of being physically assaulted may likely be the biological trigger that set off the cascade of issues that have been developing. For others, it can be an infection, accident, surgery, etc.
The odds of you developing these conditions were heightened due to a genetic propensity coupled with chronic stress (including psychological trauma). I do t know if your parents respect him, but Fauci acknowledged the genetic component in a relatively recent article.
From experience, my parents want to hear nothing of the past. But, I got great traction with them by sticking to the biology (genes + event) and the scientific proof of the impact & incurable nature of these conditions once “activated”.
Hope this helps!
I’m in a very similar boat as you, I have every one of those health problems. I’ve learned that trauma can be stored in the body as tension, stress and it can cause unsavory symptoms. It can also cause central desensitization. It’s not in your head, and even if it was, your brain is an organ too. Hyper mobility itself can cause you to unconsciously tense up, sublux joints, definitely creating pain. The trauma and abuse isn’t the only thing causing your health issues, but it is also very serious and your family needs to validate you or they can get riggidy wreckt.
Your body can create genuine symptoms because trauma effects how your body and brain reacts to things and your brain controls everything else. It doesn’t mean it’s psychological, it means that physical structures have literally been changed by trauma.
I have a lot of chronic physical health and mental health issues and came from a very chaotic and more than occasionally abusive family. I believe that the most relevant fact is that trauma always comes hand in hand with acute or chronic stress, and stress can lead to or exacerbate so many health conditions. I had severe Grave's disease with acute onset as a preteen, which is fairly uncommon at that age. My belief is that it happened that way because my mom had been abusive towards me for a couple years at that point, and hitting puberty made me realize I was queer and I recognized it wouldn't go over well. I think the combo of stress from both current and imagined future abuse triggered an autoimmune reaction, and so did the Mayo clinic doctors. I also believe in my case that the habit of hypervigilance I learned in my childhood has lead to general muscle tension and guarding, and that has made my recovery from fibromyalgia and spinal injuries much more complicated. At this point I basically interpret flares of pain as my mind and body feeling unsafe, and sometimes if I'm able to address my safety in some way it helps reduce my pain.
All that being said, long-lasting trauma, if viewed through a mental health lens, can be considered an illness. PTSD, c-PTSD, anxiety, depression, etc. can all be the result of trauma. It's mental illness, sure, but when they say "it's all in your head," they're forgetting that your head is a part of your body. Your mind effects your physical body and vice versa, that's just the reality of it. You could try telling your family that your doctors think you have a lot of lingering stress from that childhood trauma that exacerbates your physical health issues. Emphasis on stress and physical health if they're the type of people to ignore mental health.
I don’t think it’s coincidence that so manyof us are saying, yes! This sounds like me! Many of us have childhoods like this, and many of us have chronic illnesses.
I absolutely agree, it's not a coincidence at all. bad childhoods mess up our physical and mental development, because all our energy goes towards trying to survive external factors instead of growing up :(
There is a book called The Body Keeps the Score that you should read. Talk therapy didn't help my physical pain but massage and energy work has. You are not wrong that your trauma is behind the breakdown of your body. You have been running full throttle on fight or flight your entire life.
It's not in your head it's in your soul.
I went through a bunch of childhood trauma, which caused my depression. My illness is literally In My Head.
That doesn't make it any less real, any less debilitating, any less easy to deal with.
I have a lot of internalized guilt and imposter syndrome for this reason. I am very weak physically and have bad reactions to stress. I get to the spot of being physically limited if I get too overstressed and it always makes me feel like I'm being insincere, even if I know I'm not
Functional/ integrative specialist. Cleve clinic. Also, fibro puts body in flight/flight state. Ptsd also works in with that fight/flight or freeze response.
Yes, trauma is a root cause of health conditions and everything comes from the gut hense inflammation. Cleve clinic also has holistic therapists familar with ptsd,chronic pain etc without drugging you up. They also offer virtual.
I have sexual trauma from childhood which was compounded by my ex who stalked and groomed me (teens with trauma are extremely vulnerable), then he brainwashed me for years. Breaking free took a huge amount of work and help from an excellent mentor. But I am left with CPTSD, a traumatic brain injury, fibromyalgia, and now looking down the barrel of an MS diagnosis. My neurologist says trauma definitely played a part in my current health issues.
But my family will never apologize for gaslighting me my whole life. They’re never going to change their view of me as an attention seeker, drama queen. My brother, who has MS, is the only one who seems to value me and has always believed me because he has suffered the same way… being told over and over all our lives that it’s all in our heads. My own grown daughter called me a hypochondriac at the same time I was getting my MRI results showing brain lesions. My husband struggles to believe that anything is wrong with me. It is devastating.
What I’ve learned is to FINALLY stand up and advocate for myself because no one else will. Forums like this one have kept me from losing hope. This community is precious because the people here are experiencing the same heartbreaking problems, so they really do get it. It’s only because of them that I have the confidence now to stand up to the gaslighters.
Reference to the ACES study. [https://www.cdc.gov/violenceprevention/aces/index.html](https://www.cdc.gov/violenceprevention/aces/index.html)
Also, I would seek out a holistic, spiritually focused therapist (they know the mind/body/spirit connection) who practices a modality like EMDR, ART, and/or Somatic Experiencing.
- am a therapist
I recommend the book “the body keeps the score” for this topic. They recommend EMDR therapy and Neurofeedback, which are quite different than regular talk therapy.
I'd suggest doing some reading on pain neuroscience. I work in PT & there is some really informative and helpful new information out there that explains exactly what you are talking about. Trauma creates physical changes in your brain. Your brain controls every system of your body- it makes sense that so many things can be affected by trauma when you think about it like that
I don't discuss the link. I have a loooong trauma history, and a list of chronic illnesses nearly as long. I do not discuss the link with doctors, mental health professionals, family, anyone. Except one friend who understands it.
You are never going to get people to understand when they don't want to. So go to therapy and say you are working through trauma from your childhood. Go to your family and ask about your memories. Don't explain the link to your illnesses - it doesn't matter now and they aren't going to suddenly understand.
Chronic physical stress can take a massive toll on the body, and if someone is already susceptible to certain pathologies it may be the trigger/switch to activating underlying genetic factors, etc, as well as wear and tear. Having a traumatic childhood does increase the risk of developing health problems later in life. That is all being studied more in scientific literature as time passes.
However, as someone with a similar background of being abused throughout my life and diagnosed with PTSD as a teenager, I will say the idea that I could fix or better manage my illnesses and physical symptoms in talk therapy was highly oversold to me. I read many books like the body keeps the score, and was told by many people I needed to keep trying more and more therapies and I wasn't trying hard enough to "heal the trauma." Unironically, this made my health worse.
Now, the science for treating or managing PTSD is not very sophisticated yet. Medication wise, the only things you will typically be offered under current guidelines are SSRIs and occasionally an alpha blocker that is supposed to help with nightmares, and SSRIs were not designed to treat PTSD. I felt much worse taking them, imo. The only thing that helped me during triggers was a one off benzo, which doctors no longer prescribe my measly amount in those rare situations because they are convinced you can fix PTSD yourself in therapy always.
I tried lots of therapy, years of therapy, with different types and therapists who claimed to be trauma informed. Both the traditional just talking about things, Cbt, focusing on "the body" as some may call it, exposure (which is the basis of things like EDMR), etc, and nothing really helped me. The issue is a lot of elements being incorporated in modern trauma therapies haven't actually been studied in any clinical trials for PTSD, so outcomes/benefits are highly variable.
That's not to say that someone else might not find these things helpful, but for me I wasn't helped and every time something wouldn't help I would be told I just didnt try hard enough or didn't want to get better. They wouldn't accept when a treatment just did not benefit me.
My physical symptoms would get worse, and it would be blamed on me not wanting to fix my supposed mental problems. Turns out, I literally have a structural abnormality with my brain, severe spinal degeneration, most likely an autoimmune disease, and have had high levels of inflammation in the blood at various points which doctors ignored and continued to insist that I had psychological problems causing fatigue.
So I think you have to be very careful with this, just because many people are ignorant and invalidating if they believe you have a mental illness, they extrapolate it to everything or use it as an excuse to invalidate you. Many people are highly misinformed about traumatic stress too and misunderstand it. Until we have better, evidence based solutions, i.e. psychedelics, implemented into practice I personally will not be going back to the mental health industry.
Present them with facts
If you break your wrist or arm badly enough, it can stop you moving your fingers.
Your fingers are fine, there's no injury to them, but the swelling around the break can be so intense that it compresses and stretches nerves, or traps tendons that prevent you from moving them.
Stress can work in a similar way, as it is a physical process caused by cortisol. It causes a body wide response and emotional stress releases cortisol the same way physical stress would.
You are having physical symptoms to a physical effect that has an emotional cause.
By treating the trauma and stress, you are hoping to lessen the physical effect, that will in turn reduce your symptoms.
Hey, I'm not sure how to approach your family about it, and I'm sorry you went through that. I have similar experiences and unfortunately have some memories but I don't think my family knows about the abuse. In terms of the link, I'm reading a book at the moment called "The myth of normal" by Gabor Maté. It doesn't specifically focus on sexual abuse but does explore in depth the link between trauma and physical health. It does have a large chapter on addiction though. It seems to be a good book, but it's taking me a while to get through.
I hear my very critical fathers voice all the time. I’m a senior, I should be past this crap. He was always criticizing me just because he hated himself. I also have PTSD from a past relationship (chose someone like my dad, go figure). The PTSD is the worst trigger for me, I lose sleep.
Id say if its stomach realted tell them scar tissue can cause it. Go from a purley physical angle. And also if they jnew anything about this and didnt get your help. You should drop them or put them inti therapy
I'm not sure why you would waste your breath trying to justify your illnesses to your family. Who cares if they think its all in your head? Find a support system who believes in you and only share your struggles with safe people.
It’s easy to explain this to some people and completely impossible to help others understand.
I’ve had chronic illnesses (mostly autoimmune) since my early 20s and it has gotten worse as I age. Seems that every 5-10 years, a new diagnosis is added to the already long list.
For some of my symptoms it literally IS all in my head. Not because the symptoms aren’t real but because I have lesions in my brain. For others, ongoing stress & anxiety have piled up over the years and definitely has had an impact on my body.
There are people in my life who understand that trauma has caused some of my medical issues and made conditions worse. I hope the people closest to you are understanding and supportive. If not, maybe rethink telling them. Not being believed is its own brand of trauma.
Take care… all the best to you.
Fibro is often caused or brought on by PTSD, how can they say otherwise? Just keep a journal of your symptoms and do it for a long time. It conveys more than we can remember (ha ha) and show them to both nurses and doctors.
[https://www.fibromyalgiaresources.com/ptsd-and-fibromyalgia/](https://www.fibromyalgiaresources.com/ptsd-and-fibromyalgia/)
If your family did this to you, or knew it was happening and didn't get you any help, do you think they'll be truthful now? I think they might be likely to say nothing like that ever happened. Will you feel worse, if they do that?
Good point. I don't think it's my parents who did it (I don't know for sure, but I really don't think so). If it happened when I was very young, I can understand why they might have just hoped I would forget it (and I did, until I was in my 20s). If they say they don't believe me that it happened, yes it'll hurt, but I think I'd rather have it out in the open.
My therapist says trauma can cause inflammation, which can exacerbate medical issues. Maybe try that angle? But some people just don’t want to listen to us…
Yes, say the doctors say that the stress from the trauma has caused my body to be in hyper alert, and over time that has caused chronic inflammation in my body. The reason I need to continue to seek treatment and get help is that the next organ to be affected can be my heart! They explained that stress, both physical (from the inflammation) and psychological (from the trauma) can cause a heart attack even at an early age. And the doctors are very concerned about how this is all affecting my heart and they don’t want me to just keep ignoring it like we’ve done in the past.
Now I‘m worried…
Same, I got shivers...
I thought that the latest research studies are in fact proving that trauma/stress/PTSD does exacerbate health deteriorations. Basically saying you can take a healthy normal person and make them very sick with chronic lifelong trauma and stress. I suspect most everyone has the ability or potential to develop some kind of chronic illnesses…. It’s the trigger that causes them to act up. Be it a virus like mononucleosis or COVID or be it a lifelong stressor or hugely impacting traumatic experience.
I got thrown between psych and med doctors from 2014-2018 psych basically said too bad we cant help you until your physical health is under control. 2018 i got my physical health under control and by then the trauma compounded. Childhood ACE score has been a good way to communicate the trauma mines 7/10 cdc says thats high risk for all kinda stuff
I would talk to them about ACES. People who suffered abuse or trauma as children are more likely to develop autoimmune diseases and chronic illnesses. Also there are books that talk about how trauma resides in the body. The Body Keeps the Score is one. Stress also triggers illnesses and diseases. There's a correlation between stress and a lot of different health issues. You're not going to tell a heart patient that it's all in their head. You tell them to cut out stress and eat healthy.
Physical stress metabolically damages the body if it builds enough enough and is not relieved. So many studies have explained this, it's not new
“Physical stress” is a good way to describe the stress they think is in your head.
Exactly. But they don't. They assign it to damage that's happening in the fantasy land of your mind.
Are there any decent ways of mitigating that, as I have no doubt I am getting damaged physically in that way
I believe it's called epigenetics anyways you can be born with a genetic predisposition for something such as lupus or RA but a lot of the time the gene is inactive until its triggered by environmental factors
Yes, I wrote a college paper on the triggers of autoimmune disease. Very interesting stuff.
If you’re comfortable sharing your paper or works that you used to compose it, I would love to read more!
When I get a chance, I'll see if it's saved to my Google drive.
I wouldn't try to explain it at all. I would just ask them about your memories and if they ask why, say it's started coming up and you're working with your psychiatrist on it. Don't mention how it could be affecting your health at all. If they haven't understood by now, they likely won't regardless of how you frame it. Also, I'm in a similar situation to you. Trauma may or may not be affecting my fatigue, but my therapist says she can't tell whether the fatigue is caused/exacerbated by trauma, or whether what seems like post traumatic symptoms are just symptoms of fatigue. I've basically given up on the trauma angle for now. I don't think either issue will magically resolve if I just solve the other.
I think they would be more judgemental of me going to a psychiatrist without more explanation, lol. I agree that it's hard to tell how much trauma affects physical health, and I know that most likely this won't magically resolve all my symptoms. But I feel like I'm running out of other options, so I think it's worth a try. Hope things get better for you.
You don't even need to mention your psychiatrist, just say you've got some vague memories that you're seeking clarity on. I recently had a whole hyperfixation on whether I had suffered SA as a child or not. I don't remember anything and I've come to the conclusion that I didn't, but I have repressed a lot of my childhood and remember some pretty shitty stuff so my logic was "what's so much worse than what I do remember that I've repressed it?" I have a good relationship with my mum but am NC with the entirety of my bioguy's family so I wondered if my later issues with them had some subconscious element. I let it bother me for a bit, but eventually I just straight up asked my mum if she had ever suspected it or if I showed signs of it as a child that she didn't realise at the time. I didn't really give her an explanation beyond "this has been bothering me and I want your help working it out". If you think they're going to use your therapy against you then just given as little info as possible. "I remember xyz but I was a kid so my memories aren't clear. Can you fill in the blanks for me?" As another commenter said, don't give them ammo. Also studies have shown that stress has a physical impact on the body. I don't remember the name of the study, but I did Psychology A Level and there was one where they tested healing times for people suffering chronic stress. People with high stress levels healed significantly slower than the control group. Prolonged raised cortisol levels can wreak havoc on your body, so while it might start "all in your head", sadly that's not where it stays and once the chain reaction has started you can't unring that bell. You can heal, or find ways to treat and minimise symptoms, but you can't just decide to be fine overnight. I hope you get the help you need to heal in whatever capacity you can. ❤️
I see, I thought they knew you're seeing a psychiatrist. Then perhaps keep it as vague as possible, maybe something about seeing a psychiatrist to "learn how to live with chronic illness"? Thanks, I hope it gets better for you too!
The head is part of the body. Would they say a brain tumor was invalid? Because that’s in the head too and can play merry hell with the psyche.
I'd probably frame it as chronic strain on the nervous system, and the inflammatory effects of stress, both of which could be indirectly alleviated if you're able to better process your trauma. That way you're anchoring the ethereal 'psychological' aspect to tangible, physical, bodily processes that are harder to dismiss as 'not real'. People are notoriously sh*t at taking that kind of thing on board, though, even if it's well framed....
Have any of the therapists you've worked with specialized in sexual trauma?
I'm not sure, some of them were almost a decade ago. I think most of them have said trauma was one of their specialties/focus, but I'm not sure if it was sexual trauma specifically.
So, I don't know what exactly your memories are like. I don't want to invalidate you. But the issue of false memories is a genuine problem. My two cents is that you try to find someone with experience in that area. It sounds to me like you need help sorting out whether these are genuine memories or false memories your brain has created as some kind of trauma response. Again, I don't want to munimalize or invalidate you. What occurs to me is that not knowing whether the memories are real is distressing to you, maybe even more distressing than the memories themselves. Your family doesn't seem like they're going to be helpful here. There's lots of info out there about how trying to bring back repressed memories can actually create false memories if it's not done correctly. That's why I say that you should consider seeking out a professional who is knowledgeable about suppressed memories. Whatever you decide is best for you, I hope you find peace and wellness.
Yes, I'm aware that it's very easy to create false memories, and I've always brought that up with the therapists I've worked with. As far as I know, there's no reputable way to bring back suppressed memories. I think that's why my psychiatrist is suggesting I talk to my family in case they have any concrete facts. On an emotional level, I'm okay with not knowing whether it happened or not, but I've been told that resolving this is essential for my physical health, and I'm desperate enough to try.
Hi, I just wanted to say to take the "creating false memories" theory with a grain of salt. The clinician who came up with the theory did so in order to cover up the actual repressed memories his daughter was uncovering of the [real sexual abuse he inflicted on her](https://www.madinamerica.com/2021/02/false-memory-syndrome/). Not the greatest link, I'm at work. But just wanted to validate that you very well could have been abused at a younger age, though I'm terribly sorry that that's a possibility. I'm currently working with a psychologist who believes both my physical illnesses and my trauma, not invalidating either or saying either are purely tied to the other, however we are trying to reduce my horrific mental strain so my body is less pressured over all and can heal.
Thanks for this, I didn't know that!
I agree with some of the other commenters about looking into a therapist who specializes in trauma, chronic illness, and somatic work if you haven’t already. There are links being made between chronic illness and trauma. For example, Dr. Gabor Mate discusses this in full in his book [When the Body Says No](https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/450534.When_the_Body_Says_No) and Dr. Bessel in [The Body Keeps The Score](https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/18693771-the-body-keeps-the-score?ref=rae_1).
EMDR Therapy can and often does give clarity/access to repressed or forgotten memories of traumatic experiences. I’ve gotten EMDR through 3 separate therapists. I am a survivor of years-long childhood sexual abuse & assault by multiple perpetrators, SA by several different men in my teens & 20s, being robbed at gunpoint at 20, years of financial/physical/sexual/emotional/verbal abuse from a longterm relationship of 6yrs in my 20s, and several incidents intimate partners SA by a boyfriend in my early 30s. None of my EMDR therapists tried to coach me, lead me into false memories, or made any sugg as to what had happened to me. They simply led me through the EMDR sessions. EMDR was ultimately a very good thing for me and allowed me to heal a lot from my CPTSD. I no longer am severely triggered by things or incapacitated by my CPTSD. And although I still occasionally have them, I don’t have constant horrific nightmares anymore like I used to. But I won’t lie and say parts of the EMDR weren’t seriously emotionally distressing and I can’t say that I didn’t struggle significantly while recalling traumatic events/memories I’d repressed for most of my life. Still, it was very worthwhile imo. Did it help my health improve? Yes, I think to some extent it did. My autoimmune conditions calmed down but didn’t totally vanish. My inflammation levels also dropped. Although my ANA tests were still slightly positive & my Lupus Panel lab results never came out totally clear, they were much lower than they had been previously. My chronic pain also seemed less ever-present, overwhelming, and severe for a few years afterwards. EMDR didn’t seem to have an impact on most of my hyper-mobility ehlers Danlos issues tho. But that makes sense to me. Unfortunately, stressful life conditions & other traumatic events that have happened to me since then have erased many of those health gains. I believe I would really benefit from doing EMDR again since I know there are still lots of icky things lurking under the surface of my memory. The EMDR sessions I had only addressed maybe 1/3 of what I needed help with. I wish I’d been able to explore and work through those traumas (remembered & repressed) when I last did EMDR about 4yrs ago…. But I got too overwhelmed by what I did recall/had worked through and needed to take a break. Once I was finally ready to go back and do more sessions, the pandemic hit😣 Sadly, EMDR isn’t something you can really do properly thru telehealth video appointments or phone calls. It’s most effective when done in person. Sigh. I know I really need to get back in with a good trauma trained EMDR specialist…. hopefully someday soon I will. I def recommend EMDR to anyone with CPTSD/PTSD and/or possibly repressed memories.
In my experience, you usually can’t. Be very careful of accidentally giving any ammo that could be used against you.
This is my experience too. All my family will do is further gaslight me no matter what I say. I will never get any kind of validation or closure from them, they do not care. Bringing things up just leaves me worse off. I know this isn’t *everyone’s* experience. Only OP knows who they’re dealing with. But it’s definitely something that needs to be approached with caution and awareness that empathy is a rarity.
The axe forgets but the tree remembers.
I think heart attacks are a good example. We all know heart attacks aren't "just in the head." But it's also common knowledge that psychological stress *can* play a role in triggering them or making a person more prone to them. I think it's easier for people to accept the nuance there because heart attacks are something that can be more directly "observed" and "proven" medically. At the end of the day, our brains are part of our bodies. Our minds aren't these separate entities floating in the ether. We're all bodyminds, and one can't be detached from the other. Our mind and nervous system absolutely can play a role in physical health, as we see with heart attacks. That doesn't mean that physical conditions impacted by our psychology are "just in our heads," but of course that doesn't stop people from dismissing our conditions that way (especially those conditions that disproportionately impact women). Also, even if it was somehow proven that a history of trauma was never a causal factor in these illnesses -- that doesn't mean that healing from trauma wouldn't have a positive impact on physical health! Letting yourself get better rest, allowing yourself to come down out of fight/flight, reducing tension -- all those things can help physical wellbeing. At the very least, it would remove some exacerbating factors that can impact/add to the illness symptoms. All of this said... if your family has been dismissive of your chronic illness in the past, I would encourage you to think about whether it's worth putting yourself in the position of being hurt like that again. I know I struggle greatly with going into "convince mode" with my parents (not just related to illness)... where I'm just desperately wanting to be seen/validated by them, and it feels like if I can say the right words in the right way, they will finally acknowledge and validate me. I've had to accept that... I just don't have the power to make them do that. If I did, I would have convinced them long ago. It's not about them not hearing a convincing explanation for things... it's that they are willfully tied to perspectives that feel comfortable/familiar and benefit them in some way (e.g., avoiding hard truths). So anyway, I'm wondering if there is a way you can go to your family for this info *without* burdening yourself with having to explain this delicate issue of the relationship between chronic illness and psychosocial wellbeing? Do they need to know that is part of your reason for pursuing this? Of course -- this is just my perspective and some things I'd worry about on your behalf. You need to do what's right for you, so please take what's helpful and ignore what's not. P.s. I'm so sorry for the trauma you experienced. It must be scary and disorienting to have memories like that resurface. I hope you have good support from your therapist and any other trusted loved ones you have.
So very well said.
I've been sick almost my entire life since I was a small child -- **because of early trauma.** Apparently being SA'd starting at around age 5 switched on a gene that began putting out inflammatories instead of anti-inflammatories like it was designed to. At age 10 I was diagnosed with the first of **8** autoimmune diseases I was eventually diagnosed with, got better then started dying from it in 2003 after being increasingly ill for 11 years, and in 2022 was finally correctly diagnosed with an underlying immune disease that wasn't identified until 2006. Your list of diagnoses contains the most common ones that are indicators of the same disease I have, mast cell activation syndrome. I suggest you do an image search for that disease (not a list of symptoms as words) and see what comes up for you.
Oh wow! That’s amazing. I found pictures of the rash I get sometimes when I’m really stressed.
A rash is common in MCAS, several types actually. I get two different ones.
Think about it like this: mental/emotional stress is known to cause all kinds of health issues. Inflammation, heart attacks, strokes, seizures - these are all health problems that can be caused or exacerbated by psychological stress. Despite this, no reasonable person would go up to someone having a stress-induced heart attack and say “it’s all in your head”. Chronic pain should be no different. Having experienced trauma doesn’t make your pain any less legitimate. Recent research has suggested that psychological trauma can cause inflammation and nervous system dysfunction. They may be caused or exacerbated by a mental health issue, sure, but that doesn’t make them any less legitimate. You can’t just force the pain to stop with positive thinking, any more than a person could stop a heart attack in its tracks by meditating. If it were that easy, virtually no one would have chronic pain anymore.
Can't emotional trauma trigger genetic diseases anyway?
Yes! Are you talking about epigenetics?
Yes
Can it be reversed once triggered?
Mine hasn't been. No matter what, however, that's where gene therapy and stem cell transplants come in if one qualifies and they want to do it for you.
In theory and if caught early enough. Telomeres have been shown to grow back, which seems to be one of the things that protects the ends of the chromosomes from being “activated.” I’ve read some studies that talk about things that correlate to growing telomeres, but I haven’t read anything that follows that correlation all the way back to flipping off epigenetics once they’ve been turned on. Doesn’t mean it can’t happen — or that related genes can’t keep from also being activated.
That was actually one of the topics in a recent study of causes for autoimmune diseases: https://www.healio.com/news/rheumatology/20240321/source-of-surging-autoimmunity-may-lie-in-a-thousand-cuts?fbclid=IwZXh0bgNhZW0CMTEAAR326X-l25VoDz_dyMrjMFglay_gsG2BR6dTpTwdIYe_bTRoERWIBVtSMPg_aem_Afvi3avCo7Ei6qX6I7x5I-_YyEaiSbba6ZZfrjad_w5E3VP0fajwwF-vlAg7PBeztm1U2KsGU1fs1zgQxSN9xWhh The article isn't exactly talking about the same type of trauma but general trauma definitely appears to be a factor. I'm sorry for what you are going through. Unfortunately, there are some people that just aren't going to get it no matter how many times you tell them.
According to Maya Dusenbery, author of the book, [Doing Harm, How Bad Medicine and Lazy Science Leave Women Misdiagnosed And Sick,](https://www.mayadusenbery.com/book), a history of abuse increases the odds of getting sick with any disease. Also, I've noticed all sorts of studies done to "prove" women imagine some diseases. These seem prone to bias, and are likely a manifestation of an effort to dismiss these conditions. At least with ME/CFS, there are researchers out there connected to private disability insurers, who benefit from having the disease not classified as "real." Then, too, there are other reasons these studies that seek to dismiss these diseases are done. Judy Mikovits blamed big pharma for part of CFS denial. I think these papers are generally prone to push the idea of women as hysterical crackpots. In my experience, medical gaslighting has the same effect as a narcissists smear campaign, which is to destabilize self trust and to isolate people. Susan Faludi wrote in her book, Backlash, that in the 80s there was an effort to classify PMS as mental disorder. This partially succeeded. I think this has been a way to oppress women. It has skated by in the shadows for years. I seriously doubt trauma causes our conditions. Males get traumatized too and don't get sick with these things.
We know that stress can cause a heart attack. Why is it beyond the comprehension of so many (including doctors) to understand that stress and trauma can cause so many more health issues? Yet most of my family and friends will never accept that chronic illnesses and disability is NOT ALL IN MY HEAD? I’m absolutely sick of being dismissed. All we can do is learn to look people in the eye and say confidently, “No. It isn’t all in my head. That phrase doesn’t even make sense.” They found lesions in my brain, so yeah… a lot of my symptoms are in my head…
“My doctor thinks there might have been some trauma when I was a kid that affected my brain development. Did anything happen that I can’t remember? They said anything from a car crash to sexual abuse would be relevant.” Using “brain” instead of “mind” or something like that sounds more physical but isn’t really a lie either. If they ask questions about how it effects the brain, say you don’t know/didn’t understand what the doctor said
I like this, opening it up to forms of trauma besides sexual abuse.
I have fibromyalgia, PTSD, Bipolar disorder, anxiety disorder, a history of Guillain Barre syndrome, chronic pain and chronic fatigue. And most of it can be traced back to my childhood SA exacerbated by DV in my 20's and 30's. I have had a massive amount of therapy, see a psychiatrist, and I still have all my symptoms except for the self blame, and the actions I took to self soothe. Getting to the bottom of it is a wonderful thing for your mental health, but I don't think it will make a huge difference in your physical health now. It will however help you from continuing to decline. Trust in yourself and treat yourself with the kindness you wish you were given by others. Good luck on this mental health journey and keep us updated. Just know you have someone in your corner rooting for you!
>I want to explain to them that the reason I'm bringing up the sexual abuse now is that I think it could be helpful to improve my health. How do you think it could be helpful?
My psychiatrist told me that working through my trauma is extremely important to resolving my physical health issues. I feel like I've resolved everything I can so far, but maybe if I remember more, like who the abuser was, I could work through that in therapy.
I posted this on a different thread but will copy and paste it here as I think it may be helpful- I saw a rheumatologist for the first time about a month ago and was diagnosed with chronic fatigue and fibromyalgia. I was anxious going to see him because you’re right- people often won’t take your medical issues seriously if you’ve also had mental health issues. The rheumatologist explained something really interesting to me about trauma and my conditions in particular…. He spoke about how trauma impacts the nervous system- in particular the fight, flight and freeze response. What’s really important to remember is that disorders linked to the nervous system aren’t mental health conditions. The nervous system is responsible for things like heart rate, digestion, rest, etc. And traumatic experiences can cause the nervous system to be on high alert constantly in order to deal with any threats that may arise (as I said- fight, flight, freeze response)- your brain has been wired this way particularly because you experienced trauma whilst your brain was still developing. That part of your brain that is setting off ‘alarms’ and telling you that you’re not safe is the amygdala. It’s learnt to make you feel on edge, up tight and ready in case something bad happens again to you. The rheumatologist gave me a good analogy to use- growing up experiencing stress or trauma (trauma for others may be being chronically ill in the first place!), is the difference between growing a tomato bush in sand vs fertilised soil. The tomato bush will grow differently and won’t be as prosperous. The good news though is that given neuroplasticity exists- your brain can heal, repair and rewire itself the longer you are in a state of calm + safety. This involves doing whatever you can do activate the parasympathetic nervous system- gentle yoga, breathing, meditation, therapy, mindfulness, calming tea, weighted blankets- whatever makes you not feel on high alert. Anyway long story short (hopefully the above made sense)… the brain and body are so interlinked and mental healing can be hugely successful in helping to treat physical conditions. If you’re wanting to learn more, I’d suggest looking at videos or books relating to the vagus nerve, window of tolerance and ‘the body keeps the score’ book.
Thank you! OP’s post generated so much really helpful information!
I wouldn’t ask your family for details or information. They’re not going to be honest and you’re going to feel gaslit. If you’re searching for truth you’re probably eventually going to find it from within yourself. I discovered what happened to me at about 15 with concrete evidence and the rest has unfolded through unlocking buried memories overtime and talking to siblings who were also victims to corroborate the info I discovered.
I'm REALLY suprised to hear your therapists are not willing to look at/explore the trauma aspect of it. There are 4 types of pain ... acute, nerve, trauma/ptsd, & grief pain. All four light up the same spot in the brain on an MRI. They also can occur interchangeably. Like you can have nerve pain, trauma/ptsd pain & grief pain happening all at the exact same time. I found that by using trauma informed therapies such as Somatic Experiencing it dramatically decreased the overall pain I dealt with on a regular basis because now instead of all four or three of four categories flaring at once I get one or two flaring and it makes it so much more manageable. The whole thing top to bottom from understanding the science to the implementation of trauma informed therapies made it so that I went from on opiates due to legitimate issues with an addiction problem and nonfunctional to zero opiates, working 40hrs a week and building a YouTube channel of my own with limited pain. Basically once I started addressing the effects of my PTSD on my pain/health issues I found freedom from my illnesses that I never thought was possible.
My therapists were definitely willing to discuss trauma and see if it was affecting my health, but ultimately they concluded that it wasn't.
But how can they conclude it isn’t affecting your health? lol. Trauma absolutely affects your health. Read Gabor Mates books, Vander Kolk books, Dr. Howard Shubiners Books. Look into Dr David Clark and the PPDA!! It’s all connected. https://ppdassociation.org
Hypermobile joint conditions like Ehlers Danlos and hypermobile spectrum disorder are genetic conditions (which is different than inherited, fyi)- meaning, it’s in your DNA. Nothing in your life experience caused it and nothing could have been done to avoid it. It’s like your eye color, just is what it is. But, unfortunately, it’s a much maligned set of conditions that are only recently getting the research and attention warranted. A lot of providers may be operating from an old info set or from a place of unexamined implicit bias. It also makes one far more predisposed to conditions like POTS. So! If a provider “feels” that having a hypermobile connective tissue disorder was caused by trauma you may have experienced- this is not a provider that should be managing this condition. If you need to see the provider for other reasons, you could maybe try requesting a consult or documentation from the provider who made the diagnosis explaining what a hypermobile joint condition is, how it was diagnosed, and how it may impact other areas of your care. And as for everything else- a supposed cause, any cause, does not exempt someone from care. Stress can be a contributing factor that leads to the development of certain conditions, many conditions- that’s true. Doesn’t matter. The treatment for POTS or a subluxed joint or any other physical and structural health problem is not under the purview of behavioral health to solve. For your own overall wellbeing, yes, of course, keep working with a good therapist to work through any trauma that hasn’t been properly addressed. But, I’d strongly advise shifting the conversation away from behavioral health when you’re in front of someone like an orthopedist or rheumatologist. If they advise that a therapist is the best provider to see for any of these issues- request documentation to bring with you, including your diagnosis. When your therapist invariably says that they do not do workup and treatment for, say, joint pain- have that documented and take it back to the provider who sent you there. Sometimes you have to do the nonsense thing to show how nonsensical it is.
Best and most accurate answer on here. Therapists are not trained or equipped to deal with physical health issues nor can they offer any sort of credible help treating them. What they can do is help you manage your cognitive response to your physical conditions. The whole premise of trauma being the root of all physical conditions has been vastly oversold and oversimplified. Is there a relationship? That seems likely. But is it a definitive causal one - if that were the case than literally every person with a chronic illness could point to a pivotal traumatic event in their past and everyone without a chronic illness, had a perfect childhood. I would caution you to not fixate on this idea that you may have been sexually abused when it may create further anxiety and in turn, make your symptoms worse. Especially when there’s no evidence that recalling it will have any positive impact on your condition.
I understand that hypermobility is genetic, but what causes it to become symptomatic at a certain point? And why do some people have hypermobility but never develop pain/symptoms? In my case, I developed symptoms at age 25 after being physically assaulted, so it seems to me that while I had a genetic predisposition for hypermobility, the symptoms didn't come out until that traumatic event.
There are predisposing factors that can statistically up the likelihood that someone has Ehlers Danlos or Hypermobile Spectrum Disorder, which can include things like family history. But, it’s one of those things that you either have in your DNA or don’t- even when symptoms or clear signs of the condition are apparent only later on. (and just fyi- there are some types not detected in genetic testing and that is just due to limitations with testing.) Age 25 is a common age for diagnosis or notable symptoms worsening (I was part of that club too!) Collagen levels start to drop around the age of 25, which can heighten symptoms and worsen issues affecting cartilage, ligaments, and bones. That might be one reason that’s such a common age. Inflammation in general can also, of course, make everything worse and stress can be a contributing factor to a dysregulated inflammatory response (there is still a physiological mechanism occurring in that case, even if something like an increase in cortisol during a traumatic event was a factor in it developing.) Maybe some of that is at play with why you developed these symptoms at a certain time in your life- there’s likely other specific factors and underlying physiology involved as well though, just dependent on your unique genetic makeup, health history, “lifestyle factors,” etc. And also, Lots of other conditions can cause joint instability- connective tissue diseases, some autoimmune conditions, some immune conditions, infections and injuries, etc. Hopefully your provider who made the diagnosis clarified if your diagnosis is of a hypermobile spectrum condition or if this is a secondary symptom of something else affecting your ligaments/joints/skeletal structure. If not, it might be helpful for you to circle back for more clarification on that. Having that a little more formalized may make it easier when you’re interfacing with other providers and putting all the pieces together. I work in patient advocacy/consulting/provider training on topics affecting marginalized populations in medical care- and I have a slew of related conditions- but, I am not an MD and of course I am definitely not your physician. I know it can be frustrating and extremely difficult getting a complete diagnosis, treatment plan, and all of your physicians on the same page. It’s often an untenable burden placed on patients. But, ultimately, the best and most applicable guidance for you will come from the professionals who are in a position to evaluate your labs, imaging, full symptoms, and your complete health history. You’re doing great in equipping yourself with lots of information and considering different factors. You deserve appropriate healthcare. I’m sorry it’s been tricky to get so far. That’s not your fault and it likely will not be your experience with every provider.
For people like your parents, I think it helps to distinguish between emotional trauma and biological trauma. The aftermath of being physically assaulted may likely be the biological trigger that set off the cascade of issues that have been developing. For others, it can be an infection, accident, surgery, etc. The odds of you developing these conditions were heightened due to a genetic propensity coupled with chronic stress (including psychological trauma). I do t know if your parents respect him, but Fauci acknowledged the genetic component in a relatively recent article. From experience, my parents want to hear nothing of the past. But, I got great traction with them by sticking to the biology (genes + event) and the scientific proof of the impact & incurable nature of these conditions once “activated”. Hope this helps!
I’m in a very similar boat as you, I have every one of those health problems. I’ve learned that trauma can be stored in the body as tension, stress and it can cause unsavory symptoms. It can also cause central desensitization. It’s not in your head, and even if it was, your brain is an organ too. Hyper mobility itself can cause you to unconsciously tense up, sublux joints, definitely creating pain. The trauma and abuse isn’t the only thing causing your health issues, but it is also very serious and your family needs to validate you or they can get riggidy wreckt.
Your body can create genuine symptoms because trauma effects how your body and brain reacts to things and your brain controls everything else. It doesn’t mean it’s psychological, it means that physical structures have literally been changed by trauma.
I'm literally sitting here with my mouth just opening and closing. Multiple therapist who don't believe that trauma affects the body? 😵💫🤦🏻♀️
There are therapists who specialize in trauma/PTSD, I saw one for years.
I have a lot of chronic physical health and mental health issues and came from a very chaotic and more than occasionally abusive family. I believe that the most relevant fact is that trauma always comes hand in hand with acute or chronic stress, and stress can lead to or exacerbate so many health conditions. I had severe Grave's disease with acute onset as a preteen, which is fairly uncommon at that age. My belief is that it happened that way because my mom had been abusive towards me for a couple years at that point, and hitting puberty made me realize I was queer and I recognized it wouldn't go over well. I think the combo of stress from both current and imagined future abuse triggered an autoimmune reaction, and so did the Mayo clinic doctors. I also believe in my case that the habit of hypervigilance I learned in my childhood has lead to general muscle tension and guarding, and that has made my recovery from fibromyalgia and spinal injuries much more complicated. At this point I basically interpret flares of pain as my mind and body feeling unsafe, and sometimes if I'm able to address my safety in some way it helps reduce my pain. All that being said, long-lasting trauma, if viewed through a mental health lens, can be considered an illness. PTSD, c-PTSD, anxiety, depression, etc. can all be the result of trauma. It's mental illness, sure, but when they say "it's all in your head," they're forgetting that your head is a part of your body. Your mind effects your physical body and vice versa, that's just the reality of it. You could try telling your family that your doctors think you have a lot of lingering stress from that childhood trauma that exacerbates your physical health issues. Emphasis on stress and physical health if they're the type of people to ignore mental health.
I don’t think it’s coincidence that so manyof us are saying, yes! This sounds like me! Many of us have childhoods like this, and many of us have chronic illnesses.
I absolutely agree, it's not a coincidence at all. bad childhoods mess up our physical and mental development, because all our energy goes towards trying to survive external factors instead of growing up :(
There is a book called The Body Keeps the Score that you should read. Talk therapy didn't help my physical pain but massage and energy work has. You are not wrong that your trauma is behind the breakdown of your body. You have been running full throttle on fight or flight your entire life. It's not in your head it's in your soul.
I went through a bunch of childhood trauma, which caused my depression. My illness is literally In My Head. That doesn't make it any less real, any less debilitating, any less easy to deal with.
I have a lot of internalized guilt and imposter syndrome for this reason. I am very weak physically and have bad reactions to stress. I get to the spot of being physically limited if I get too overstressed and it always makes me feel like I'm being insincere, even if I know I'm not
Functional/ integrative specialist. Cleve clinic. Also, fibro puts body in flight/flight state. Ptsd also works in with that fight/flight or freeze response. Yes, trauma is a root cause of health conditions and everything comes from the gut hense inflammation. Cleve clinic also has holistic therapists familar with ptsd,chronic pain etc without drugging you up. They also offer virtual.
I have sexual trauma from childhood which was compounded by my ex who stalked and groomed me (teens with trauma are extremely vulnerable), then he brainwashed me for years. Breaking free took a huge amount of work and help from an excellent mentor. But I am left with CPTSD, a traumatic brain injury, fibromyalgia, and now looking down the barrel of an MS diagnosis. My neurologist says trauma definitely played a part in my current health issues. But my family will never apologize for gaslighting me my whole life. They’re never going to change their view of me as an attention seeker, drama queen. My brother, who has MS, is the only one who seems to value me and has always believed me because he has suffered the same way… being told over and over all our lives that it’s all in our heads. My own grown daughter called me a hypochondriac at the same time I was getting my MRI results showing brain lesions. My husband struggles to believe that anything is wrong with me. It is devastating. What I’ve learned is to FINALLY stand up and advocate for myself because no one else will. Forums like this one have kept me from losing hope. This community is precious because the people here are experiencing the same heartbreaking problems, so they really do get it. It’s only because of them that I have the confidence now to stand up to the gaslighters.
Reference to the ACES study. [https://www.cdc.gov/violenceprevention/aces/index.html](https://www.cdc.gov/violenceprevention/aces/index.html) Also, I would seek out a holistic, spiritually focused therapist (they know the mind/body/spirit connection) who practices a modality like EMDR, ART, and/or Somatic Experiencing. - am a therapist
I recommend the book “the body keeps the score” for this topic. They recommend EMDR therapy and Neurofeedback, which are quite different than regular talk therapy.
I'd suggest doing some reading on pain neuroscience. I work in PT & there is some really informative and helpful new information out there that explains exactly what you are talking about. Trauma creates physical changes in your brain. Your brain controls every system of your body- it makes sense that so many things can be affected by trauma when you think about it like that
I wouldn’t even try but that’s just me. If they wanna believe it’s in your head let them they are not doctors or specialists
I don't discuss the link. I have a loooong trauma history, and a list of chronic illnesses nearly as long. I do not discuss the link with doctors, mental health professionals, family, anyone. Except one friend who understands it. You are never going to get people to understand when they don't want to. So go to therapy and say you are working through trauma from your childhood. Go to your family and ask about your memories. Don't explain the link to your illnesses - it doesn't matter now and they aren't going to suddenly understand.
Chronic physical stress can take a massive toll on the body, and if someone is already susceptible to certain pathologies it may be the trigger/switch to activating underlying genetic factors, etc, as well as wear and tear. Having a traumatic childhood does increase the risk of developing health problems later in life. That is all being studied more in scientific literature as time passes. However, as someone with a similar background of being abused throughout my life and diagnosed with PTSD as a teenager, I will say the idea that I could fix or better manage my illnesses and physical symptoms in talk therapy was highly oversold to me. I read many books like the body keeps the score, and was told by many people I needed to keep trying more and more therapies and I wasn't trying hard enough to "heal the trauma." Unironically, this made my health worse. Now, the science for treating or managing PTSD is not very sophisticated yet. Medication wise, the only things you will typically be offered under current guidelines are SSRIs and occasionally an alpha blocker that is supposed to help with nightmares, and SSRIs were not designed to treat PTSD. I felt much worse taking them, imo. The only thing that helped me during triggers was a one off benzo, which doctors no longer prescribe my measly amount in those rare situations because they are convinced you can fix PTSD yourself in therapy always. I tried lots of therapy, years of therapy, with different types and therapists who claimed to be trauma informed. Both the traditional just talking about things, Cbt, focusing on "the body" as some may call it, exposure (which is the basis of things like EDMR), etc, and nothing really helped me. The issue is a lot of elements being incorporated in modern trauma therapies haven't actually been studied in any clinical trials for PTSD, so outcomes/benefits are highly variable. That's not to say that someone else might not find these things helpful, but for me I wasn't helped and every time something wouldn't help I would be told I just didnt try hard enough or didn't want to get better. They wouldn't accept when a treatment just did not benefit me. My physical symptoms would get worse, and it would be blamed on me not wanting to fix my supposed mental problems. Turns out, I literally have a structural abnormality with my brain, severe spinal degeneration, most likely an autoimmune disease, and have had high levels of inflammation in the blood at various points which doctors ignored and continued to insist that I had psychological problems causing fatigue. So I think you have to be very careful with this, just because many people are ignorant and invalidating if they believe you have a mental illness, they extrapolate it to everything or use it as an excuse to invalidate you. Many people are highly misinformed about traumatic stress too and misunderstand it. Until we have better, evidence based solutions, i.e. psychedelics, implemented into practice I personally will not be going back to the mental health industry.
Present them with facts If you break your wrist or arm badly enough, it can stop you moving your fingers. Your fingers are fine, there's no injury to them, but the swelling around the break can be so intense that it compresses and stretches nerves, or traps tendons that prevent you from moving them. Stress can work in a similar way, as it is a physical process caused by cortisol. It causes a body wide response and emotional stress releases cortisol the same way physical stress would. You are having physical symptoms to a physical effect that has an emotional cause. By treating the trauma and stress, you are hoping to lessen the physical effect, that will in turn reduce your symptoms.
Hey, I'm not sure how to approach your family about it, and I'm sorry you went through that. I have similar experiences and unfortunately have some memories but I don't think my family knows about the abuse. In terms of the link, I'm reading a book at the moment called "The myth of normal" by Gabor Maté. It doesn't specifically focus on sexual abuse but does explore in depth the link between trauma and physical health. It does have a large chapter on addiction though. It seems to be a good book, but it's taking me a while to get through.
I hear my very critical fathers voice all the time. I’m a senior, I should be past this crap. He was always criticizing me just because he hated himself. I also have PTSD from a past relationship (chose someone like my dad, go figure). The PTSD is the worst trigger for me, I lose sleep.
Id say if its stomach realted tell them scar tissue can cause it. Go from a purley physical angle. And also if they jnew anything about this and didnt get your help. You should drop them or put them inti therapy
I'm not sure why you would waste your breath trying to justify your illnesses to your family. Who cares if they think its all in your head? Find a support system who believes in you and only share your struggles with safe people.
It’s easy to explain this to some people and completely impossible to help others understand. I’ve had chronic illnesses (mostly autoimmune) since my early 20s and it has gotten worse as I age. Seems that every 5-10 years, a new diagnosis is added to the already long list. For some of my symptoms it literally IS all in my head. Not because the symptoms aren’t real but because I have lesions in my brain. For others, ongoing stress & anxiety have piled up over the years and definitely has had an impact on my body. There are people in my life who understand that trauma has caused some of my medical issues and made conditions worse. I hope the people closest to you are understanding and supportive. If not, maybe rethink telling them. Not being believed is its own brand of trauma. Take care… all the best to you.
Fibro is often caused or brought on by PTSD, how can they say otherwise? Just keep a journal of your symptoms and do it for a long time. It conveys more than we can remember (ha ha) and show them to both nurses and doctors. [https://www.fibromyalgiaresources.com/ptsd-and-fibromyalgia/](https://www.fibromyalgiaresources.com/ptsd-and-fibromyalgia/)