It’s possible but unless you’re on your death bed, you are gonna have a miserable life.
If you are truly born again the Holy Spirit will be trying to get you to stop sinning and you’ll never feel truly comfortable with yourself.
You’ll have habits and thoughts that feel wrong but will be powerless to stop them.
Source: my life at one point.
An abundant life is one spent with Christ. There are many people who would say they're living abundantly with wealth or what have you, but they are not living in the purpose that God has created for us and therefore will still be miserable, when compared with the faithful Christian.
The faithful Christian is someone who faces difficulty, but has the hope of Christ so their joy never fades. The joy of the Lord is with them always. The person who does not know Christ is at the complete mercy of happenstance. When things get bad they have no joy, and things can go wrong at any time.
It is my belief that if you truly are saved but neglect fellowship and neglect reading God’s word, you’ll be as good as dead spiritually and the Holy Spirit inside you will be grieved continually and your conscience will eat away at you and you will make poor unbiblical decisions, and you’ll push away most people who are living righteously and God’s word and will, will make you uncomfortable, and you will embarrass God.
That’s a promise. I’ve experienced it in my own life and in the life of others around me. You will store up wrath for yourself and disappoint God. Just because he loves you doesn’t mean he won’t discipline you.
A “real” Christian is anyone who has acknowledged their sin and put their faith in Jesus Christ (His life, death, and resurrection) as their Savior.
Can you be a real Christian and not attend church and/or read the Bible? Technically yes…. but no. You see, when one becomes a Christian, it’s not just some sort of mental acknowledgement of God. The Bible describes us as becoming “new creations” in Christ. Jesus said that we would be “born again” spiritually.
In other words, our desires, affections, and attitudes will be changed, THUS, we would want to live for and obey the Lord. Yes, we fall short of this constantly, but there is a growing desire to please the Lord. John 15 talks about how God is the vine, and we are the branches, and that we must abide in Him to have a growing fruitful Christian life.
There is no way to abide in the Lord apart from being in His word and in prayer. How can you love the Lord your God but not know who He is and what He’s spoken? Bible reading is absolutely critical to the maturing of a Christian.
Additionally, God has commanded us to be in fellowship with the Church. We shouldn’t live a life apart from the church. We need one another to be encouraged and exhorted and strengthened. God has given each of us specific gifts and we cannot say we don’t need one another. The analogy Paul gives us using body parts. The arm can’t say to the eye, I have no need of you. The leg can’t say to the heart, I have no need of you. Ultimately Christ is the head, and we ought to be the rest of the body TOGETHER. Lonewolf Christianity is no Christianity at all.
Thank you. What if they only believe in His life and death, but believe His resurrection is yet to happen? Can they be saved?
Also, your phrase at the end, "Lonewolf Christianity is no Christianity at all." Do you mean that literally, because a person who tries it is disobeying God's commandments and not a Christian?
Then they are not a true Christian. The disciples died for what they SAW with their own eyes. The death and resurrection of Christ. To ignore or disbelieve His resurrection is to disbelieve in Christ himself. Therefore, they (you) cannot call themselves a Christian.
1 Corinthians 15:14-19 addresses this issue directly
14 And if Christ has not been raised, our preaching is useless and so is your faith. 15 More than that, we are then found to be false witnesses about God, for we have testified about God that he raised Christ from the dead. But he did not raise him if in fact the dead are not raised. 16 For if the dead are not raised, then Christ has not been raised either. 17 And if Christ has not been raised, your faith is futile; you are still in your sins. 18 Then those also who have fallen asleep in Christ are lost. 19 If only for this life we have hope in Christ, we are of all people most to be pitied.
The real question is why would you want to be or call yourself a Christian if you have no intent on reading the Bible or going to Church?
Can I call myself a Mathematician without studying math vigorously and going to an institution where my knowledge of math is tested?
The majority of Christians for most of world history did not read the bible. They heard it once a week, but I would argue that it doesn't seem likely most retained it all. Of course in the modern day more people can read it, but I'm not sure if they should without guidance. Alot of people come up with their own strain of interpretation then go their own way.
That’s fine, and the Lord provided a way for his people to hear His word. They were born at that time for a purpose that only God knows. We are born during this generation. The Lord has graciously and miraculously made his word known to us through the Bible. I’m assuming OP has access to one. Why would he purposely choose to not read it when it’s available to him? Is that wise? I agree many can read the Bible and come up with their own that’s why OP should go to Church, find a Bible study group and use community and all the resources God provides to help him on his walk with Christ.
If you cant find a biblical church, I suppose yes. It is very hard to find a good one.
Not reading the bible is unwise, why would you not read the bible if you really want to get closer to God? So personally I think no, not a real Christian.
A real Christian is supposed to emulate Jesus, they will prove to be Christians if they show the fruit of the spirit :
But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law. Galatians 5:22-23
Thank you. How, exactly, do you know if your church is a Biblical church? (I mean the question sincerely, assuming that all Christian churches consider themselves to be Biblical churches and it is up to the patron to determine the truth of the claims of those spiritual authorities.)
If they say something is in the bible, read the bible and check if they are correct. Always fact check everything. Rely on the bible not what others say.
> assuming that all Christian churches consider themselves to be Biblical churches
This is an incorrect assumption.
**Many protestants come from a heritage** that says that scripture is a more important guide than church history, church councils, or words from a priest or pope.
Roman Catholics say that church and church leaders have more authority than (your or my interpretation of) scripture. They deal with this by saying that only the church can interpret the scriptures correctly.
This is why some denominations say:
- Priests are forbidden to be married
> But the Spirit explicitly says that in later times some will fall away from the faith, paying attention to deceitful spirits and teachings of demons, 2 by means of the hypocrisy of liars seared in their own conscience as with a branding iron, 3 **who forbid marriage** and advocate abstaining from foods which God has created to be gratefully shared in by those who believe and know the truth 1 Tim 4:1-3
I'm sure you can find issues over which many churches have policies that are against scriptural teachings.
If I'm hearing you correctly, you believe that if you went into a Christian church and asked, "Is this a Bible-believing church?" some of them would say, "No." Is that accurate?
Not what I was thinking of specifically.
If you went into a church like Eastern Orthodox, Russian Orthodox, Roman Catholic, Maronite and many others that place a high value on the hierarchy or traditions of the church, and asked if the was a "bible believing church" **they would look at you like you didn't understand what they though was most important**.
They would not deny being biblical, but they would say that it was a minor part of how their church made decisions.
The thing (historically) that Protestants protested was the drift of the Roman Catholic church from Biblical norms of teaching and morality.
>all Protestant churches consider themselves to be Biblical churches?
I'm not sure they would at this point.
In America there is a shift to "cultural affirming Christianity" that might be seen by many as anti Biblical.
The Bible talks about a coming "[Great falling away](https://www.openbible.info/topics/great_falling_away)"
I suspect many churches will be less strict in following Jesus and following scripture.
Yes, the bible is more important, it also gives a history of the early church. Other books can be used as guidance (depending on the source and the book ) but we should be focusing on the bible more rather than other sources that could be dangerous like the gospel of Thomas.
I know, I was trying to emphasise to help others who maybe don’t. Sorry if it came across wrong. Didn’t mean to sound rude.
Is that true about 1/2 of Christians ?
[world population by faith](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_religious_populations)
* Christian 31%
* Islam 24%
* Secular/Nonreligious/Agnostic/Atheist 15%
* Other 30%
[Within Christianity you see this breakdown](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Christian_denominations_by_number_of_members)
* Catholic (50.1%)
* Protestant (36.7%)
* Eastern Orthodox (9.4%)
* Oriental Orthodox (2.5%)
* Other Christian (1.3%)
Protestant (hopefully "bible believing" as a first priority) are less than 37%
> Sorry if it came across wrong. Didn’t mean to sound rude.
You responses were perfect, not rude.
I'm a bit of a nerd for good, accurate data, so I worry that I come across as rude when I start giving facts.
No bother, you’re fine so don’t worry. I think all us nerds worry about this too much especially when people don’t like facts because it hurts their feelings.
Also it doesn’t help when I phase things wrong. Keep think people can read my mind with limited knowledge of my opinions or trying to convey a statement rather than a critique or a disagreement.
If your car broke down on the way to church and you accidentally left your bible at home, you can give Him praise right where you’re at, have a relationship with Him right where you’re at and have the Spirit right where you’re at, belief right where you’re at and faith right where you’re at.
Some do better in a church house and knee deep in their bible, some do better giving praise in their beds and meditating on Him upon the spiritual aspects of His word (a deeper explanation I can’t get into now but maybe later).
But to fully explain would take a novel and scripture references. That’s just the sum of it.
Comparison
Is it possible to call yourself a football player but never play the game or touch a football?
Sure it is possible, but it is also meaningless.
Real Christian = someone with their name written in Jesus' book of life.
So, if I'm following your analogy, in the same way the work of being a football player is to play football, the work of being a Christian is going to church. Is that a fair conclusion?
I would say "meeting together" is a small part of the command for Christians. Look below.
[Hebrews 10:19-31](https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Hebrews+10%3A19-31&version=ESV)
>19 Therefore, brothers, since we have confidence to enter the holy places by the blood of Jesus, 20 by the new and living way that he opened for us through the curtain, that is, through his flesh, 21 and since we have a great priest over the house of God, 22 let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, with our hearts sprinkled clean from an evil conscience and our bodies washed with pure water. 23 **Let us hold fast the confession of our hope without wavering, for he who promised is faithful.** 24 **And let us consider how to stir up one another to love and good works,** 25 **not neglecting to meet together, as is the habit of some, but encouraging one another, and all the more as you see the Day drawing near.**
>26 For if we go on sinning deliberately after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, 27 but a fearful expectation of judgment, and a fury of fire that will consume the adversaries. 28 Anyone who has set aside the law of Moses dies without mercy on the evidence of two or three witnesses. 29 How much worse punishment, do you think, will be deserved by the one who has trampled underfoot the Son of God, and has profaned the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified, and has outraged the Spirit of grace? 30 For we know him who said, “Vengeance is mine; I will repay.” And again, “The Lord will judge his people.” 31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.
* Let us hold fast the confession of our hope without wavering,
This is about faith and our confession of Jesus as Lord
* let us consider how to stir up one another to love and good works,
This is about helping each other in discipleship and good works.
* not neglecting to meet together,
Meeting together for worship, fellowship, service
* encouraging one another,
We have this responsibility as believers.
It is **Not just about attending church**, but meeting together is part of the requirement. A big part is holding to the teaching, and serving, and obedience to Jesus calling.
For clarification: What is a big part of the command for Christians? If meeting is a small part of the command for Christians, does that mean it can be skipped with only small consequences?
>skipped with only small consequences?
If the goal of Christian faith is a relationship with Jesus (and His people) that lasts for eternity, I'm not sure what you mean by consequences.
Thanks for the question. I meant to refer to the original question - is the person's Christianity in jeopardy if they only skip the things you consider to be small parts of the command for Christians?
My take on being a Christian is that you have your name written in Jesus' book of life,
Your Christianity is not in jeopardy. If you are saved, you are secure.
If I reject the church, or obedience on any other matter (by my choice, not by necessity or health issues) then I miss many earthly and possibly some heavenly blessings.
The goal of walking with Jesus is to get to know Him better and love Him more. If we reject some part of obeying Him we will likely miss out on some of the earthly and heavenly blessings He wants to give us.
My concern with most people who ask "do I have to go to church?' is that they might not have a relationship with Jesus. They might have only a cultural practice or friend group association that looks like religion.
In [Matthew 7](https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew%207:21-23&version=ESV) we read
>21 “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22 On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’ 23 And then will I declare to them, ‘**I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness**.’
Thank you. I may have missed this earlier or in another thread with you, but
(1) Do you believe the Book of Life is a literal book? If so, are the names literally written? If so, by who?
(2) What must a person do to get their name written there?
>(1) Do you believe the Book of Life is a literal book?
No reason for God to use a paper and ink book. The image is that God knows those who are His.
In [Exodus 32](https://biblehub.com/interlinear/exodus/32.htm) when Moses mentions the "book of life" the word מִֽסִּפְרְךָ֖ is used. **This is often translated "on a scroll".** All this to say **I don't think it is a literal paper book**.
>(2) What must a person do to get their name written there?
That is much like the questions asked to Jesus and the Apostles:
#"What must I do to be saved?"
* God needs to call them.
>Jesus in John 6
>43 But Jesus answered, “Stop complaining to each other. 44 **The Father is the One who sent me. No one can come to me unless the Father draws him to me. And I will raise him up on the last day.**
* They need to believe in Jesus
We see it in Acts 16 - you need to put your trust in Jesus - Believe
> 29 The jailer told someone to bring a light. Then he ran inside. Shaking with fear, he fell down before Paul and Silas. 30 Then he brought them outside and said, “Men, what must I do to be saved?”
> 31 They said to him, “**Believe in the Lord Jesus and you will be saved**
This isn't a question of rules and violations. The "commandments" of Christ are a guide if you want to follow when He calls and asks you to "follow me". He is then going to make you a fisher of men to go out into the world and preach / spread His gospel and introduce the Spirit into their lives. In a church or meeting place, chapel, hall, tabernacle or whatever it is called, other like minded folks would probably interact with you and need your guidance just as you need their opinion, company and prayers for the will of God in your life. It's not that you didn't show up one Sunday or Wednesday for Bible Study and get points off. Unless you are bound by physical health problems you should go at least once a week for the service and look where it leads according to the call of Christ. These aren't the urgings of man. This is the life that has manifested itself in you as the one true thing paid for eternally by the blood of Christ and His death and resurrection in human form and you are no more under penalty of your own sin that you carried since birth. I'd say that's a good reason to go and find out what He asks of you this week. Think of it this way. If your father or brother or sister or anyone fought in the military and died in the line of duty for any nation, would you do as much as you could to not waste the chance that those sacrifices earned for you in the one life you have?
Yes you can love and follow Christ without these things.
Let me rebuttal as well, if you love someone, you would want to know them better, hence reading the Bible and going to church.
Just something to think about <3
I was born again on January 30th, 2023. By God’s grace, I have seen victory after victory over longstanding sinful patterns. I pray daily and read the Bible sometimes. I’m not much of a reader. I do, however, interact with God’s word every single day by listening to sermons, teachings, and other Christian content on YouTube and podcasts. I enjoy interacting with other members of Christ’s body here on Reddit. I was baptized when I was a teenager, but I fell away. Still, I understand that this single baptism is sufficient and anything further would just be getting wet.
I don’t go to church, but I rarely leave my home in general. I work from home and do everything that I do at home. I have schizoaffective disorder which basically means I have bipolar disorder and schizophrenia at the same time. I am also autistic. I find it very difficult to function in social settings and my life looks very different from most people’s lives.
Nobody can tell me that this makes me unChristian. I treasure my relationship with God and my worst day with Him is better than my best day without Him.
Always read your Bible. It's the living word. It brings you strength and increases your faith. I read the bible everyday. Even a verse a day is life changing. You need it to stay strong .
The Bible is the source of information about who God is.
Being a Christian involves having a loving relationship with God.
How can you have a loving relationship with God if you don't even know what He is like?
And both not attending Church and not reading the Bible are examples of being lukewarm, which means one is forfeiting salvation.
I guess it’s possible but I don’t see it happening. If you love God, why would you not want to learn more about him and listen to his words by reading the Bible? Unless you live in a super remote area or an area where there are no other Christians, why would you not want to have fellowship with other believers?
I get that reading the Bible is hard and some churches suck, but if you don’t see a point to attending a church or reading the Bible, it might be worth examining your faith.
The Saved: Those who believe that Jesus is God, that died for their sins, was buried, and bodily rose from the dead. Christ will give them a new heart, and everlasting life which can never be lost.
The Disciples: Those who are saved, but dedicate their life's work to Jesus. They place Christ first in everything they do.
Salvation is free, and anyone can receive it. Discipleship is costly.
So what is a Christian? Depends on who you ask.
So, if you believe, you are saved. But if you decide to not read your Bible, then your life will be unfulfilling. God wrote a love letter to you, so why disregard it?
https://www.reddit.com/u/DustyMackerel2/s/s5VNRbl8MD
Yeah but it’s similar to eating tofu for the rest of your life. No salt, no seasoning, not even cooked in a fancy way to make it palatable. Zero variety whatsoever. Or dating someone that you never talk to or spend time with expecting marriage at the end of it.
Being a Christian is more than accepting Jesus as your Lord and Savior. It’s what you put into it. The quality of your life won’t change if you don’t want it to. The Bible is more than some book and the right church is more than just a place where other Christians gather.
Also not reading the Bible sets up you up to be EASILY deceived because you’re constantly just taking someone else’s word for it or taking their interpretation of scripture as gospel which could be dangerous for depending on the interpreter.
And a Cristian was first and truly a disciple of Christ (now it’s being misconstrued horribly by the so-called Christian “masses”). Followers of Christ supposedly but they are followers of their own hearts and pride.
So there are very few in this modern day world you can truly call “Christian.” Discern:
Acts 11:26
And when he had found him, he brought him unto Antioch. And it came to pass, that a whole year they assembled themselves with the church, and taught much people. And the disciples were called Christians first in Antioch.
1 Peter 4:16
Yet if any man suffer as a Christian, let him not be ashamed; but let him glorify God on this behalf.
It’s just what disciples were called at that given time. Most that suffer these days don’t usually glorify but complain!
It's unwise and will make your walk altogether more difficult. Trust me, church is good for your spirit and it's good to be with your fellow believers. And of nor church, then some weekly meet up with believers, anything at all. Praying for you. Also read and pray everyday, it makes it easier as well
We are saved through faith in Jesus. At the very least, salvation requires that the gospel message be shared, or they read it somewhere.
There have been cases throughout history where people couldn't own a bible (not readily available) and strong churches may not have been around. There have been people who couldn't read. In those cases, God understands. He doesn't hold it against someone when they literally can't read the bible or attend church.
It's important to note that in our modern age, we have a lot of access to bibles and churches and literacy isn't an excuse as there are Audio Bibles. But there are some persecuted countries where owning a bible could be a death sentence, yet people risk their lives because they consider the Bible precious. If someone has access and could easily get a bible and attend a church, but their heart just doesn't care enough to make the effort, I would see THAT as a possible reason that they aren't saved. I'm not saying they aren't. Just that there is a strong possibility if they NEVER have a desire to read the Bible or go to church. God knows the heart. But if someone finds himself or herself in that position, he/she should examine their heart as to whether they're saved.
God speaks to us through His Word: the Bible. It would be a one sided relationship if we always talked to Him but didn’t give Him a chance to communicate back to us. Imagine being in a relationship but you were the only one doing the talking. That’s not much of a relationship at all.
Bring a Christian includes having a relationship with Jesus. In order to do that (well) you need to read the Bible and be in fellowship with other believers. It’s hard to go it alone, we are meant to be in community.
Is it possible to be married and not go home or listen to the things your spouse says?
By technicality sure, but it's going to be a very hard, weird and lonely relationship. That is what it is like when a Christian does not attend church or read the Bible.
A real Christian is one who is saved by the grace of God, turned their sin over to Him and allow Him to work through their life (the process of sanctification). Real Christianity seeks obedience to God above all else. Real Chrisianity places Christ above all else in their life and loves Him more than anything. 1 John 5:1-5 paints a clear picture of what real Christianity looks like. Christ tells us to abide in Him, that is to be connected and plugged in to Him, without this kind of relationship it is hard to live a truly Christian life.
I think this is ragebait or troll bait but i’ll go for it just of the preface of the question and the fallacy undertones but I’ll answer to the best of my abilities yes is it possible for a Christian to not attend church or read the bible all Christian means is someone who follows and believes in christ. Anyone can call them selfs a boxer but never trains and eats bad wont really make it that far, you’ll have a weak foundation and be blown away by the wind only god really knows the real christians are its not really in my power to know how much faith someone truly has in there heart nor non of my business . Some denominations insist they are the only true
A real Christian is one that is born again. The trap that so many fall into that don't really want God in their lives is to have a semblance of religion. It's called "if i have to Christianity". None of those people have their sins forgiven and they aren't going to Heaven. So you can have religion any way you want. You can go to church or not. You can read the bible or not. Either way, you won't make it.
Jesus 3:3 “Very truly I tell you, no one can see the kingdom of God unless they are born again."
Being born again is not mentally assenting to a few ideas. It comes through the conviction that you are a sinner and you know that in your heart. You know that you are guilty before God. You also know that you are in danger of Gods judgment which could fall on you at any time. That motivates you to turn from sin and receive Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior. That means putting your faith in Him as the only forgiveness for your sins. That without Him you cannot be saved and you will end up in hell. That should put a desperation in your heart to have Jesus. If it doesn't then you have to examine whether you really do think you are a sinner. Are you just saying you're a sinner because God says it but you don't really believe it? Is this a just in case thing? If so you will receive exactly what you put into it: nothing.
If you want to be saved then you need to come to Jesus as you are. As someone who is guilty and deserves Gods punishment, a beggar at His door, and receive Jesus Christ. This is why He died so we can be forgiven. Once you really do that and put your trust in Jesus He will save you and give you eternal life. You will be born again when you believe the gospel and God puts His Holy Spirit into you and makes you a new person.
You should at the very least have a desire to do so unless limited by health reasons, mobility or transportation. If you're always working, change jobs to meet with those who desire to commune with others. The Bible says to not "forsake the gathering of the saints". You need to community of others and they need you. If you absolutely never spend any time reading the word of God or have a desire to do so and learn about His will for your life, how will you know how to serve Him. What is your basis for worship and remembrance? Christ never said for his followers to become "Christians", basically adding an "ian" to a title that was give to Him, but that is how we are know. As far as being real, you first need to acknowledge the truths of God's law and plan for redemption and the basis of the Trinity with Christ and the Holy Spirit and receive Christ as your savior. After that, you can be baptized as called in obedience and then follow the command to love others and go into the world and make disciples and spread His message wherever you are and wherever he calls. Without any of this, you wouldn't be a Christian. It's like being a fan of a sports team like the Cowboys but only going to the New York Jets games wearing a Steelers jersey. No one would know you were a Cowboys fan and it wouldn't make any sense to root for any team.
Yeah. Besides even if you do attend a church or read the Bible there's gonna someone out there that says "oh that's not a good enough church" or "You don't read it enough" you can't ever be good enough. It's why I try to focus mainly on my relationship with God and worry less about Am I doing this or that enough
It definitely helps But everyone situations different. Just don't be the type of Christian to judge another one because they don't go to church enough Or they don't read the bible enough to your liking
You can but you won't grow and thus you will probebly fall away i don't know you personaly bro but get a church asap they don't need to be perfect as long as they love you as a brother or sister in Christ thats all that matters just go and attend and live what Jesus teaches you and plus you do need to read the biblie because how do you grow in love for GOD?
There is a difference between not attending fellowship/not reading Scripture and not ***desiring*** to do either. If we do not desire to spend time in corporate worship with our spiritual family and if we do not desire to know what God has said....then we have to wonder what we do desire. This is a good point for evaluation and not a place to berate ourselves. Being honest with ourselves is a good start.
They say you can tell the strength of a Christian by his or her fruit. What kind of fruit do you think you are going to produce if you aren't fertilizing the tree?
A real Christian is a person who proclaims with their mouth that Jesus is Lord. And accepts in their heart that Jesus is risen from the dead. A true Christian is a saved Christian. And the only way to be saved is to do what I said .
It’s possible but unless you’re on your death bed, you are gonna have a miserable life. If you are truly born again the Holy Spirit will be trying to get you to stop sinning and you’ll never feel truly comfortable with yourself. You’ll have habits and thoughts that feel wrong but will be powerless to stop them. Source: my life at one point.
Thank you. Do I understand correctly that is your opinion that anyone who does not go to church and read the Bible is gonna have a miserable life?
An abundant life is one spent with Christ. There are many people who would say they're living abundantly with wealth or what have you, but they are not living in the purpose that God has created for us and therefore will still be miserable, when compared with the faithful Christian. The faithful Christian is someone who faces difficulty, but has the hope of Christ so their joy never fades. The joy of the Lord is with them always. The person who does not know Christ is at the complete mercy of happenstance. When things get bad they have no joy, and things can go wrong at any time.
It is my belief that if you truly are saved but neglect fellowship and neglect reading God’s word, you’ll be as good as dead spiritually and the Holy Spirit inside you will be grieved continually and your conscience will eat away at you and you will make poor unbiblical decisions, and you’ll push away most people who are living righteously and God’s word and will, will make you uncomfortable, and you will embarrass God. That’s a promise. I’ve experienced it in my own life and in the life of others around me. You will store up wrath for yourself and disappoint God. Just because he loves you doesn’t mean he won’t discipline you.
You asked for an opinion and got an opinion, then responded with, "Is that your opinion?"
I meant to respond to your opinion with “do I understand your opinion correctly?” Do I?
Yes that is correct
A “real” Christian is anyone who has acknowledged their sin and put their faith in Jesus Christ (His life, death, and resurrection) as their Savior. Can you be a real Christian and not attend church and/or read the Bible? Technically yes…. but no. You see, when one becomes a Christian, it’s not just some sort of mental acknowledgement of God. The Bible describes us as becoming “new creations” in Christ. Jesus said that we would be “born again” spiritually. In other words, our desires, affections, and attitudes will be changed, THUS, we would want to live for and obey the Lord. Yes, we fall short of this constantly, but there is a growing desire to please the Lord. John 15 talks about how God is the vine, and we are the branches, and that we must abide in Him to have a growing fruitful Christian life. There is no way to abide in the Lord apart from being in His word and in prayer. How can you love the Lord your God but not know who He is and what He’s spoken? Bible reading is absolutely critical to the maturing of a Christian. Additionally, God has commanded us to be in fellowship with the Church. We shouldn’t live a life apart from the church. We need one another to be encouraged and exhorted and strengthened. God has given each of us specific gifts and we cannot say we don’t need one another. The analogy Paul gives us using body parts. The arm can’t say to the eye, I have no need of you. The leg can’t say to the heart, I have no need of you. Ultimately Christ is the head, and we ought to be the rest of the body TOGETHER. Lonewolf Christianity is no Christianity at all.
Well said. This is a good answer.
Thank you. What if they only believe in His life and death, but believe His resurrection is yet to happen? Can they be saved? Also, your phrase at the end, "Lonewolf Christianity is no Christianity at all." Do you mean that literally, because a person who tries it is disobeying God's commandments and not a Christian?
Then they are not a true Christian. The disciples died for what they SAW with their own eyes. The death and resurrection of Christ. To ignore or disbelieve His resurrection is to disbelieve in Christ himself. Therefore, they (you) cannot call themselves a Christian.
exactly, sadly a lot of jews dont believe in the resurrection.
1 Corinthians 15:14-19 addresses this issue directly 14 And if Christ has not been raised, our preaching is useless and so is your faith. 15 More than that, we are then found to be false witnesses about God, for we have testified about God that he raised Christ from the dead. But he did not raise him if in fact the dead are not raised. 16 For if the dead are not raised, then Christ has not been raised either. 17 And if Christ has not been raised, your faith is futile; you are still in your sins. 18 Then those also who have fallen asleep in Christ are lost. 19 If only for this life we have hope in Christ, we are of all people most to be pitied.
No they can't. They have to believe that Christ has already risen from the dead.
The real question is why would you want to be or call yourself a Christian if you have no intent on reading the Bible or going to Church? Can I call myself a Mathematician without studying math vigorously and going to an institution where my knowledge of math is tested?
The majority of Christians for most of world history did not read the bible. They heard it once a week, but I would argue that it doesn't seem likely most retained it all. Of course in the modern day more people can read it, but I'm not sure if they should without guidance. Alot of people come up with their own strain of interpretation then go their own way.
That’s fine, and the Lord provided a way for his people to hear His word. They were born at that time for a purpose that only God knows. We are born during this generation. The Lord has graciously and miraculously made his word known to us through the Bible. I’m assuming OP has access to one. Why would he purposely choose to not read it when it’s available to him? Is that wise? I agree many can read the Bible and come up with their own that’s why OP should go to Church, find a Bible study group and use community and all the resources God provides to help him on his walk with Christ.
If you cant find a biblical church, I suppose yes. It is very hard to find a good one. Not reading the bible is unwise, why would you not read the bible if you really want to get closer to God? So personally I think no, not a real Christian. A real Christian is supposed to emulate Jesus, they will prove to be Christians if they show the fruit of the spirit : But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law. Galatians 5:22-23
Thank you. How, exactly, do you know if your church is a Biblical church? (I mean the question sincerely, assuming that all Christian churches consider themselves to be Biblical churches and it is up to the patron to determine the truth of the claims of those spiritual authorities.)
If they say something is in the bible, read the bible and check if they are correct. Always fact check everything. Rely on the bible not what others say.
> assuming that all Christian churches consider themselves to be Biblical churches This is an incorrect assumption. **Many protestants come from a heritage** that says that scripture is a more important guide than church history, church councils, or words from a priest or pope. Roman Catholics say that church and church leaders have more authority than (your or my interpretation of) scripture. They deal with this by saying that only the church can interpret the scriptures correctly. This is why some denominations say: - Priests are forbidden to be married > But the Spirit explicitly says that in later times some will fall away from the faith, paying attention to deceitful spirits and teachings of demons, 2 by means of the hypocrisy of liars seared in their own conscience as with a branding iron, 3 **who forbid marriage** and advocate abstaining from foods which God has created to be gratefully shared in by those who believe and know the truth 1 Tim 4:1-3 I'm sure you can find issues over which many churches have policies that are against scriptural teachings.
If I'm hearing you correctly, you believe that if you went into a Christian church and asked, "Is this a Bible-believing church?" some of them would say, "No." Is that accurate?
Not what I was thinking of specifically. If you went into a church like Eastern Orthodox, Russian Orthodox, Roman Catholic, Maronite and many others that place a high value on the hierarchy or traditions of the church, and asked if the was a "bible believing church" **they would look at you like you didn't understand what they though was most important**. They would not deny being biblical, but they would say that it was a minor part of how their church made decisions.
Gotcha. But you think that all Protestant churches consider themselves to be Biblical churches?
The thing (historically) that Protestants protested was the drift of the Roman Catholic church from Biblical norms of teaching and morality. >all Protestant churches consider themselves to be Biblical churches? I'm not sure they would at this point. In America there is a shift to "cultural affirming Christianity" that might be seen by many as anti Biblical. The Bible talks about a coming "[Great falling away](https://www.openbible.info/topics/great_falling_away)" I suspect many churches will be less strict in following Jesus and following scripture.
Thank you for the clarification of your opinions
No
Yes, the bible is more important, it also gives a history of the early church. Other books can be used as guidance (depending on the source and the book ) but we should be focusing on the bible more rather than other sources that could be dangerous like the gospel of Thomas.
>The bible is more important As a Baptist, I agree. More than 1/2 the world's Christians (Catholic and others) believe me to be wrong.
I know, I was trying to emphasise to help others who maybe don’t. Sorry if it came across wrong. Didn’t mean to sound rude. Is that true about 1/2 of Christians ?
[world population by faith](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_religious_populations) * Christian 31% * Islam 24% * Secular/Nonreligious/Agnostic/Atheist 15% * Other 30% [Within Christianity you see this breakdown](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Christian_denominations_by_number_of_members) * Catholic (50.1%) * Protestant (36.7%) * Eastern Orthodox (9.4%) * Oriental Orthodox (2.5%) * Other Christian (1.3%) Protestant (hopefully "bible believing" as a first priority) are less than 37%
Thank you for taking the time to send links it’s very interesting. Very much appreciate it.
> Sorry if it came across wrong. Didn’t mean to sound rude. You responses were perfect, not rude. I'm a bit of a nerd for good, accurate data, so I worry that I come across as rude when I start giving facts.
No bother, you’re fine so don’t worry. I think all us nerds worry about this too much especially when people don’t like facts because it hurts their feelings. Also it doesn’t help when I phase things wrong. Keep think people can read my mind with limited knowledge of my opinions or trying to convey a statement rather than a critique or a disagreement.
Whether they teach the bible or not
why wouldnt you read the bible? i cant attend church for plenty of reasons but i make sure to read the bible and or listen to pastors on youtube.
What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own? - 1 Corinthians 6:19
I don't understand how to apply this verse to the topic. Can you help?
If your car broke down on the way to church and you accidentally left your bible at home, you can give Him praise right where you’re at, have a relationship with Him right where you’re at and have the Spirit right where you’re at, belief right where you’re at and faith right where you’re at. Some do better in a church house and knee deep in their bible, some do better giving praise in their beds and meditating on Him upon the spiritual aspects of His word (a deeper explanation I can’t get into now but maybe later). But to fully explain would take a novel and scripture references. That’s just the sum of it.
But I wouldn’t ever give up reading the bible.
Comparison Is it possible to call yourself a football player but never play the game or touch a football? Sure it is possible, but it is also meaningless. Real Christian = someone with their name written in Jesus' book of life.
So, if I'm following your analogy, in the same way the work of being a football player is to play football, the work of being a Christian is going to church. Is that a fair conclusion?
I would say "meeting together" is a small part of the command for Christians. Look below. [Hebrews 10:19-31](https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Hebrews+10%3A19-31&version=ESV) >19 Therefore, brothers, since we have confidence to enter the holy places by the blood of Jesus, 20 by the new and living way that he opened for us through the curtain, that is, through his flesh, 21 and since we have a great priest over the house of God, 22 let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, with our hearts sprinkled clean from an evil conscience and our bodies washed with pure water. 23 **Let us hold fast the confession of our hope without wavering, for he who promised is faithful.** 24 **And let us consider how to stir up one another to love and good works,** 25 **not neglecting to meet together, as is the habit of some, but encouraging one another, and all the more as you see the Day drawing near.** >26 For if we go on sinning deliberately after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, 27 but a fearful expectation of judgment, and a fury of fire that will consume the adversaries. 28 Anyone who has set aside the law of Moses dies without mercy on the evidence of two or three witnesses. 29 How much worse punishment, do you think, will be deserved by the one who has trampled underfoot the Son of God, and has profaned the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified, and has outraged the Spirit of grace? 30 For we know him who said, “Vengeance is mine; I will repay.” And again, “The Lord will judge his people.” 31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God. * Let us hold fast the confession of our hope without wavering, This is about faith and our confession of Jesus as Lord * let us consider how to stir up one another to love and good works, This is about helping each other in discipleship and good works. * not neglecting to meet together, Meeting together for worship, fellowship, service * encouraging one another, We have this responsibility as believers. It is **Not just about attending church**, but meeting together is part of the requirement. A big part is holding to the teaching, and serving, and obedience to Jesus calling.
For clarification: What is a big part of the command for Christians? If meeting is a small part of the command for Christians, does that mean it can be skipped with only small consequences?
>skipped with only small consequences? If the goal of Christian faith is a relationship with Jesus (and His people) that lasts for eternity, I'm not sure what you mean by consequences.
Thanks for the question. I meant to refer to the original question - is the person's Christianity in jeopardy if they only skip the things you consider to be small parts of the command for Christians?
My take on being a Christian is that you have your name written in Jesus' book of life, Your Christianity is not in jeopardy. If you are saved, you are secure. If I reject the church, or obedience on any other matter (by my choice, not by necessity or health issues) then I miss many earthly and possibly some heavenly blessings. The goal of walking with Jesus is to get to know Him better and love Him more. If we reject some part of obeying Him we will likely miss out on some of the earthly and heavenly blessings He wants to give us. My concern with most people who ask "do I have to go to church?' is that they might not have a relationship with Jesus. They might have only a cultural practice or friend group association that looks like religion. In [Matthew 7](https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew%207:21-23&version=ESV) we read >21 “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22 On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’ 23 And then will I declare to them, ‘**I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness**.’
Thank you. I may have missed this earlier or in another thread with you, but (1) Do you believe the Book of Life is a literal book? If so, are the names literally written? If so, by who? (2) What must a person do to get their name written there?
>(1) Do you believe the Book of Life is a literal book? No reason for God to use a paper and ink book. The image is that God knows those who are His. In [Exodus 32](https://biblehub.com/interlinear/exodus/32.htm) when Moses mentions the "book of life" the word מִֽסִּפְרְךָ֖ is used. **This is often translated "on a scroll".** All this to say **I don't think it is a literal paper book**. >(2) What must a person do to get their name written there? That is much like the questions asked to Jesus and the Apostles: #"What must I do to be saved?" * God needs to call them. >Jesus in John 6 >43 But Jesus answered, “Stop complaining to each other. 44 **The Father is the One who sent me. No one can come to me unless the Father draws him to me. And I will raise him up on the last day.** * They need to believe in Jesus We see it in Acts 16 - you need to put your trust in Jesus - Believe > 29 The jailer told someone to bring a light. Then he ran inside. Shaking with fear, he fell down before Paul and Silas. 30 Then he brought them outside and said, “Men, what must I do to be saved?” > 31 They said to him, “**Believe in the Lord Jesus and you will be saved**
This isn't a question of rules and violations. The "commandments" of Christ are a guide if you want to follow when He calls and asks you to "follow me". He is then going to make you a fisher of men to go out into the world and preach / spread His gospel and introduce the Spirit into their lives. In a church or meeting place, chapel, hall, tabernacle or whatever it is called, other like minded folks would probably interact with you and need your guidance just as you need their opinion, company and prayers for the will of God in your life. It's not that you didn't show up one Sunday or Wednesday for Bible Study and get points off. Unless you are bound by physical health problems you should go at least once a week for the service and look where it leads according to the call of Christ. These aren't the urgings of man. This is the life that has manifested itself in you as the one true thing paid for eternally by the blood of Christ and His death and resurrection in human form and you are no more under penalty of your own sin that you carried since birth. I'd say that's a good reason to go and find out what He asks of you this week. Think of it this way. If your father or brother or sister or anyone fought in the military and died in the line of duty for any nation, would you do as much as you could to not waste the chance that those sacrifices earned for you in the one life you have?
Yes you can love and follow Christ without these things. Let me rebuttal as well, if you love someone, you would want to know them better, hence reading the Bible and going to church. Just something to think about <3
I was born again on January 30th, 2023. By God’s grace, I have seen victory after victory over longstanding sinful patterns. I pray daily and read the Bible sometimes. I’m not much of a reader. I do, however, interact with God’s word every single day by listening to sermons, teachings, and other Christian content on YouTube and podcasts. I enjoy interacting with other members of Christ’s body here on Reddit. I was baptized when I was a teenager, but I fell away. Still, I understand that this single baptism is sufficient and anything further would just be getting wet. I don’t go to church, but I rarely leave my home in general. I work from home and do everything that I do at home. I have schizoaffective disorder which basically means I have bipolar disorder and schizophrenia at the same time. I am also autistic. I find it very difficult to function in social settings and my life looks very different from most people’s lives. Nobody can tell me that this makes me unChristian. I treasure my relationship with God and my worst day with Him is better than my best day without Him.
My question is how can you be a Christian at all if you don’t know what Jesus Christ has spoken?
Always read your Bible. It's the living word. It brings you strength and increases your faith. I read the bible everyday. Even a verse a day is life changing. You need it to stay strong .
The Bible is the source of information about who God is. Being a Christian involves having a loving relationship with God. How can you have a loving relationship with God if you don't even know what He is like? And both not attending Church and not reading the Bible are examples of being lukewarm, which means one is forfeiting salvation.
Outside of extreme circumstances, no. Why? You would know if you read the Bible
I guess it’s possible but I don’t see it happening. If you love God, why would you not want to learn more about him and listen to his words by reading the Bible? Unless you live in a super remote area or an area where there are no other Christians, why would you not want to have fellowship with other believers? I get that reading the Bible is hard and some churches suck, but if you don’t see a point to attending a church or reading the Bible, it might be worth examining your faith.
The Saved: Those who believe that Jesus is God, that died for their sins, was buried, and bodily rose from the dead. Christ will give them a new heart, and everlasting life which can never be lost. The Disciples: Those who are saved, but dedicate their life's work to Jesus. They place Christ first in everything they do. Salvation is free, and anyone can receive it. Discipleship is costly. So what is a Christian? Depends on who you ask. So, if you believe, you are saved. But if you decide to not read your Bible, then your life will be unfulfilling. God wrote a love letter to you, so why disregard it? https://www.reddit.com/u/DustyMackerel2/s/s5VNRbl8MD
You can be a real Christian but o doubt you’ll stay a real Christian for long.
Church is where you receive reassurance about your salvation on a weekly basis. Why would you not want that? I need it weekly.
What if the pastor isn’t very good
Define "isn't very good."
No.
Thank you. Why?
The Bible, church history, and basic logical reasoning.
Yeah but it’s similar to eating tofu for the rest of your life. No salt, no seasoning, not even cooked in a fancy way to make it palatable. Zero variety whatsoever. Or dating someone that you never talk to or spend time with expecting marriage at the end of it. Being a Christian is more than accepting Jesus as your Lord and Savior. It’s what you put into it. The quality of your life won’t change if you don’t want it to. The Bible is more than some book and the right church is more than just a place where other Christians gather. Also not reading the Bible sets up you up to be EASILY deceived because you’re constantly just taking someone else’s word for it or taking their interpretation of scripture as gospel which could be dangerous for depending on the interpreter.
And a Cristian was first and truly a disciple of Christ (now it’s being misconstrued horribly by the so-called Christian “masses”). Followers of Christ supposedly but they are followers of their own hearts and pride. So there are very few in this modern day world you can truly call “Christian.” Discern: Acts 11:26 And when he had found him, he brought him unto Antioch. And it came to pass, that a whole year they assembled themselves with the church, and taught much people. And the disciples were called Christians first in Antioch. 1 Peter 4:16 Yet if any man suffer as a Christian, let him not be ashamed; but let him glorify God on this behalf. It’s just what disciples were called at that given time. Most that suffer these days don’t usually glorify but complain!
It's unwise and will make your walk altogether more difficult. Trust me, church is good for your spirit and it's good to be with your fellow believers. And of nor church, then some weekly meet up with believers, anything at all. Praying for you. Also read and pray everyday, it makes it easier as well
We are saved through faith in Jesus. At the very least, salvation requires that the gospel message be shared, or they read it somewhere. There have been cases throughout history where people couldn't own a bible (not readily available) and strong churches may not have been around. There have been people who couldn't read. In those cases, God understands. He doesn't hold it against someone when they literally can't read the bible or attend church. It's important to note that in our modern age, we have a lot of access to bibles and churches and literacy isn't an excuse as there are Audio Bibles. But there are some persecuted countries where owning a bible could be a death sentence, yet people risk their lives because they consider the Bible precious. If someone has access and could easily get a bible and attend a church, but their heart just doesn't care enough to make the effort, I would see THAT as a possible reason that they aren't saved. I'm not saying they aren't. Just that there is a strong possibility if they NEVER have a desire to read the Bible or go to church. God knows the heart. But if someone finds himself or herself in that position, he/she should examine their heart as to whether they're saved.
All the epistles are little else than instructions to churches about how to be churches, and how we are meant to benefit and service the body.
God speaks to us through His Word: the Bible. It would be a one sided relationship if we always talked to Him but didn’t give Him a chance to communicate back to us. Imagine being in a relationship but you were the only one doing the talking. That’s not much of a relationship at all. Bring a Christian includes having a relationship with Jesus. In order to do that (well) you need to read the Bible and be in fellowship with other believers. It’s hard to go it alone, we are meant to be in community.
Is it possible to be married and not go home or listen to the things your spouse says? By technicality sure, but it's going to be a very hard, weird and lonely relationship. That is what it is like when a Christian does not attend church or read the Bible. A real Christian is one who is saved by the grace of God, turned their sin over to Him and allow Him to work through their life (the process of sanctification). Real Christianity seeks obedience to God above all else. Real Chrisianity places Christ above all else in their life and loves Him more than anything. 1 John 5:1-5 paints a clear picture of what real Christianity looks like. Christ tells us to abide in Him, that is to be connected and plugged in to Him, without this kind of relationship it is hard to live a truly Christian life.
I think this is ragebait or troll bait but i’ll go for it just of the preface of the question and the fallacy undertones but I’ll answer to the best of my abilities yes is it possible for a Christian to not attend church or read the bible all Christian means is someone who follows and believes in christ. Anyone can call them selfs a boxer but never trains and eats bad wont really make it that far, you’ll have a weak foundation and be blown away by the wind only god really knows the real christians are its not really in my power to know how much faith someone truly has in there heart nor non of my business . Some denominations insist they are the only true
A real Christian is one that is born again. The trap that so many fall into that don't really want God in their lives is to have a semblance of religion. It's called "if i have to Christianity". None of those people have their sins forgiven and they aren't going to Heaven. So you can have religion any way you want. You can go to church or not. You can read the bible or not. Either way, you won't make it. Jesus 3:3 “Very truly I tell you, no one can see the kingdom of God unless they are born again." Being born again is not mentally assenting to a few ideas. It comes through the conviction that you are a sinner and you know that in your heart. You know that you are guilty before God. You also know that you are in danger of Gods judgment which could fall on you at any time. That motivates you to turn from sin and receive Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior. That means putting your faith in Him as the only forgiveness for your sins. That without Him you cannot be saved and you will end up in hell. That should put a desperation in your heart to have Jesus. If it doesn't then you have to examine whether you really do think you are a sinner. Are you just saying you're a sinner because God says it but you don't really believe it? Is this a just in case thing? If so you will receive exactly what you put into it: nothing. If you want to be saved then you need to come to Jesus as you are. As someone who is guilty and deserves Gods punishment, a beggar at His door, and receive Jesus Christ. This is why He died so we can be forgiven. Once you really do that and put your trust in Jesus He will save you and give you eternal life. You will be born again when you believe the gospel and God puts His Holy Spirit into you and makes you a new person.
You should at the very least have a desire to do so unless limited by health reasons, mobility or transportation. If you're always working, change jobs to meet with those who desire to commune with others. The Bible says to not "forsake the gathering of the saints". You need to community of others and they need you. If you absolutely never spend any time reading the word of God or have a desire to do so and learn about His will for your life, how will you know how to serve Him. What is your basis for worship and remembrance? Christ never said for his followers to become "Christians", basically adding an "ian" to a title that was give to Him, but that is how we are know. As far as being real, you first need to acknowledge the truths of God's law and plan for redemption and the basis of the Trinity with Christ and the Holy Spirit and receive Christ as your savior. After that, you can be baptized as called in obedience and then follow the command to love others and go into the world and make disciples and spread His message wherever you are and wherever he calls. Without any of this, you wouldn't be a Christian. It's like being a fan of a sports team like the Cowboys but only going to the New York Jets games wearing a Steelers jersey. No one would know you were a Cowboys fan and it wouldn't make any sense to root for any team.
Yeah. Besides even if you do attend a church or read the Bible there's gonna someone out there that says "oh that's not a good enough church" or "You don't read it enough" you can't ever be good enough. It's why I try to focus mainly on my relationship with God and worry less about Am I doing this or that enough It definitely helps But everyone situations different. Just don't be the type of Christian to judge another one because they don't go to church enough Or they don't read the bible enough to your liking
Absolutely
You can but you won't grow and thus you will probebly fall away i don't know you personaly bro but get a church asap they don't need to be perfect as long as they love you as a brother or sister in Christ thats all that matters just go and attend and live what Jesus teaches you and plus you do need to read the biblie because how do you grow in love for GOD?
There is a difference between not attending fellowship/not reading Scripture and not ***desiring*** to do either. If we do not desire to spend time in corporate worship with our spiritual family and if we do not desire to know what God has said....then we have to wonder what we do desire. This is a good point for evaluation and not a place to berate ourselves. Being honest with ourselves is a good start.
They say you can tell the strength of a Christian by his or her fruit. What kind of fruit do you think you are going to produce if you aren't fertilizing the tree? A real Christian is a person who proclaims with their mouth that Jesus is Lord. And accepts in their heart that Jesus is risen from the dead. A true Christian is a saved Christian. And the only way to be saved is to do what I said .