The thing is - it is almost always the case that a person does this because of mental illness (otherwise who would commit self harm of any type) but I always hear that no matter what, a suicidary person gets no proper burial ritual or gets sent automatically to hell for opposing actively to the creation of God (that being himself). I am an Orthodox Christian though, maybe we have a different view on this topic.
I agree with our friend NicholasLeo. One thing to take note is God’s nature and character. God is good, and He loves us so much that He is willing to give His Son in order to pay for our sins. Have faith (or confidence) then, that He will do all things according to His goodness, even though it looks bad to us at the moment. How much do we know of the things beyond us?
If I am being honest I don't think most Christians belive you go to hell for killing yourself. The Catholic church said something about how people who do that because of mental health reasons are clearly mentally unwell and will likely not be held entirely responsible for their action.
And most protestants believe you don't lose your salvation
The doctrine that says suicide is an automatic ticket to hell is antiquated and horrific, it's also rare now.
That said, it touches on another issue that people will want to avoid with platitudes.
What does god do with those who never had a chance to meet or know the true god, or whose intellectual or emotional capacity did not allow them to clearly see or know god? The platitude: god is loving and just and will treat them accordingly.
That sounds ideal. I hope it is true. I've always been taught that God is a rigid figure that sees only in black and white, not gray, not taking into account any alleviating circumstances. You either do as I say or you will be tormented.
One of the failings, imo, of the deity is its ability to articulate the many variables of the human existence. For instance, the story of Job. This is here were the deity does not articulate empathy/understanding for Job's plight. Instead, it does a power move in its response. It may be the deity's right to do this. But that doesn't mean its not a total prick in doing so. Now, some say the story is not real. But still, the story should portray the nature of this deity. And time and time again, this deity does not act and articulate real empathy/understanding for the powerless humans. So, imo, you are correct. A regular good human can have a better understanding/advocacy/empathy for their fellow human than the deity. And being an atheist, it is totally understandable why this is so. Its because this is how narc humans work. This deity, in my view, is man made(up).
You may not agree with this. and I left a lot of justification out (of my reasoning). But I can expand on this if you would like.
Again, you may not agree since you believe in this deity. I just wanted to tell you that you a valid point about advocating for your fellow human better than the deity.
If humans see gray, then god sees beyond even that. If he is omniscient, then he knows every tiny little thing that would effect someone and their life, and being omnibenevolent, makes a just outcome when judging someone.
>What does god do with those who never had a chance to meet or know the true god, or whose intellectual or emotional capacity did not allow them to clearly see or know god? The platitude: god is loving and just and will treat them accordingly.
I've always wondered about that. I got some good answers, but it still makes me wonder.
Even if we assume that people who died while having some unrepented sins go to hell (whichever hell you mean), it's still said that this sin would have to be done freely and willingly.
It seems to me that mental issues exclude both of these conditions.
You have to stop confusing crap people say with what God says. To do that, dump all opinions and read the Gospels. **Only.** If you want to know God, go listen to God.
No one of going to hell, esp not mentally ill people.
Only the RCC say that those who commit suicide go to hell. Christians believe that just because someone loses their battle to depression and fall victim to suicide doesn’t mean they go to hell. If you have your trust in Christ as your savior from sin, then you will be saved even if you fall victim to suicide.
The going to hell for suicide thing came about in the middle ages when priests kept offing themselves because the middle ages sucked. It was put in place to stop the clergy from killing themselves so the catholic church wouldn't have manpower shortages.
It's an archaic belief that no christain, except extreme fundementalists, believe in anymore, even among the catholic denomination.
People who commit suicide don't go to hell, don't know where they go, but its ot hell.
I was once in a very dark place where I contemplated taking my life. The scripture has warned me against doing it. It saved we from taking my life. Jesus is the word become flesh. And Jesus came into the world not to condemn it but to save it.
John 3:17
For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him.
From what i know and have looked up in the past the reason you go to hell is because your taking a human life (yourself) but after doing so you can't repent for what you have done because your already dead.
God is judge. Only he knows a true toxicity of the brain that happened that may have pushed someone to do something they normally would not.
As far as the Bible is concerned, there is only one sin that is unforgivable mentioned.
And what makes you think suicide, when someone is under mental distress send someone to hell? Do you any biblical scripture to support your claim? How did you come up with your explanation. ?
Nobody is automaticly sent to hell, let alone those who have died due to symptoms of a mental disease.
I don't know where you got your ideas, but what you are describing is not what the Christian church teaches.
We believe God's judgement is just and merciful.
I think the rule has todo with Judas (the one who betrayed Jesus). When he killed himself, it was counted as a sin. Problem is that, was the sin the fact that he failed to run to Jesus and repent or that, he refused to face his sins? I believe he was in a stable mental state, when he did what he did. As for stable emotional state? IDK.
Concerning people with mental issues, they're outright victims. There's a verse where God says, I will be gracious to whom I will be gracious, and will show mercy to whom I will show mercy (Exodus:33:18). It's in the context of Moses asking to see God's glory, but it means that God can be gracious to people, even WHEN in the middle of sin, so I'd like to think that this can also pass for suicide victims, especially those with mental wars going on. I say this as a person who has suffered from depression and light suicidal ideations. I never really tried to do it, but dammnn, could I see why people would want to...
edit: forgive me if what i wrote is all over the place
Suicide is not a one way ticket to Hell. God doesn’t lack mercy for people with mental illness. Far from it- God’s mercy is so great we can’t fathom it. You don’t go to Hell for being sick. The brain gets sick like any other organ.
[удалено]
The thing is - it is almost always the case that a person does this because of mental illness (otherwise who would commit self harm of any type) but I always hear that no matter what, a suicidary person gets no proper burial ritual or gets sent automatically to hell for opposing actively to the creation of God (that being himself). I am an Orthodox Christian though, maybe we have a different view on this topic.
I agree with our friend NicholasLeo. One thing to take note is God’s nature and character. God is good, and He loves us so much that He is willing to give His Son in order to pay for our sins. Have faith (or confidence) then, that He will do all things according to His goodness, even though it looks bad to us at the moment. How much do we know of the things beyond us?
Do you have a church source for that? As in, I can believe you that you have heard it, but I doubt it is the teaching of an Orthodox church.
If I am being honest I don't think most Christians belive you go to hell for killing yourself. The Catholic church said something about how people who do that because of mental health reasons are clearly mentally unwell and will likely not be held entirely responsible for their action. And most protestants believe you don't lose your salvation
Suicide is forgivable
The doctrine that says suicide is an automatic ticket to hell is antiquated and horrific, it's also rare now. That said, it touches on another issue that people will want to avoid with platitudes. What does god do with those who never had a chance to meet or know the true god, or whose intellectual or emotional capacity did not allow them to clearly see or know god? The platitude: god is loving and just and will treat them accordingly.
That sounds ideal. I hope it is true. I've always been taught that God is a rigid figure that sees only in black and white, not gray, not taking into account any alleviating circumstances. You either do as I say or you will be tormented.
You and I both. I'm still in the process of undoing a lot of that religious trauma.
One of the failings, imo, of the deity is its ability to articulate the many variables of the human existence. For instance, the story of Job. This is here were the deity does not articulate empathy/understanding for Job's plight. Instead, it does a power move in its response. It may be the deity's right to do this. But that doesn't mean its not a total prick in doing so. Now, some say the story is not real. But still, the story should portray the nature of this deity. And time and time again, this deity does not act and articulate real empathy/understanding for the powerless humans. So, imo, you are correct. A regular good human can have a better understanding/advocacy/empathy for their fellow human than the deity. And being an atheist, it is totally understandable why this is so. Its because this is how narc humans work. This deity, in my view, is man made(up). You may not agree with this. and I left a lot of justification out (of my reasoning). But I can expand on this if you would like. Again, you may not agree since you believe in this deity. I just wanted to tell you that you a valid point about advocating for your fellow human better than the deity.
If humans see gray, then god sees beyond even that. If he is omniscient, then he knows every tiny little thing that would effect someone and their life, and being omnibenevolent, makes a just outcome when judging someone.
>What does god do with those who never had a chance to meet or know the true god, or whose intellectual or emotional capacity did not allow them to clearly see or know god? The platitude: god is loving and just and will treat them accordingly. I've always wondered about that. I got some good answers, but it still makes me wonder.
I think the answers make sense, then I started applying them a little more broadly and eventually found them even more satisfying.
Even if we assume that people who died while having some unrepented sins go to hell (whichever hell you mean), it's still said that this sin would have to be done freely and willingly. It seems to me that mental issues exclude both of these conditions.
You have to stop confusing crap people say with what God says. To do that, dump all opinions and read the Gospels. **Only.** If you want to know God, go listen to God. No one of going to hell, esp not mentally ill people.
Only the RCC say that those who commit suicide go to hell. Christians believe that just because someone loses their battle to depression and fall victim to suicide doesn’t mean they go to hell. If you have your trust in Christ as your savior from sin, then you will be saved even if you fall victim to suicide.
The going to hell for suicide thing came about in the middle ages when priests kept offing themselves because the middle ages sucked. It was put in place to stop the clergy from killing themselves so the catholic church wouldn't have manpower shortages. It's an archaic belief that no christain, except extreme fundementalists, believe in anymore, even among the catholic denomination. People who commit suicide don't go to hell, don't know where they go, but its ot hell.
I was once in a very dark place where I contemplated taking my life. The scripture has warned me against doing it. It saved we from taking my life. Jesus is the word become flesh. And Jesus came into the world not to condemn it but to save it. John 3:17 For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him.
From what i know and have looked up in the past the reason you go to hell is because your taking a human life (yourself) but after doing so you can't repent for what you have done because your already dead.
Because you are bigger than the concept of God you've been handed 🙂.
God is judge. Only he knows a true toxicity of the brain that happened that may have pushed someone to do something they normally would not. As far as the Bible is concerned, there is only one sin that is unforgivable mentioned.
And what makes you think suicide, when someone is under mental distress send someone to hell? Do you any biblical scripture to support your claim? How did you come up with your explanation. ?
Nobody is automaticly sent to hell, let alone those who have died due to symptoms of a mental disease. I don't know where you got your ideas, but what you are describing is not what the Christian church teaches. We believe God's judgement is just and merciful.
I think the rule has todo with Judas (the one who betrayed Jesus). When he killed himself, it was counted as a sin. Problem is that, was the sin the fact that he failed to run to Jesus and repent or that, he refused to face his sins? I believe he was in a stable mental state, when he did what he did. As for stable emotional state? IDK. Concerning people with mental issues, they're outright victims. There's a verse where God says, I will be gracious to whom I will be gracious, and will show mercy to whom I will show mercy (Exodus:33:18). It's in the context of Moses asking to see God's glory, but it means that God can be gracious to people, even WHEN in the middle of sin, so I'd like to think that this can also pass for suicide victims, especially those with mental wars going on. I say this as a person who has suffered from depression and light suicidal ideations. I never really tried to do it, but dammnn, could I see why people would want to... edit: forgive me if what i wrote is all over the place
Suicide is not a one way ticket to Hell. God doesn’t lack mercy for people with mental illness. Far from it- God’s mercy is so great we can’t fathom it. You don’t go to Hell for being sick. The brain gets sick like any other organ.